BPDFamily.com

She was out yesterday afternoon in a pub... .my mates were there.  They texted me to tell me that she was in, so I had to miss out on going.  I was on a date last night anyway (tbh it went well but im not interested), so I stayed in the local pub.  She told my mates that she loves me and misses me and cannot stop thinking about me.  One of my friends said to her that I'd been on holiday and she broke down apparently.

I dont want to see her in pain, but more importantly I wont allow myself to be in pain. I dont know why Im meeting her tonight, maybe I miss her, maybe I dont want to have to avoid her, maybe I just want to get on, maybe the following texts have swung it... .I dont know what the reason is.

I was texting today and she is very sorry about everything.  She said that I never gave her time... .I always wanted to do anything but see her... .and tbf, she had a point.  I was so fed up by then end, that I would think of any excuse but to see her.

She said that letting go of loving me is the hardest thing she has ever done. She said that I wasnt faultless and said that I always thought I was... .Again, tbf, shes got a point. 

I did blame her for everything.  In my mind she was always wrong... .I guess its because of the way she acted. I wasnt used to such behaviour. She also said that I said horrible things on text, so she was confused that I ever liked her, let alone loved her.  But again, I said horrible things, coz she just used to ignore me - and while I was in that bubble, I wasnt thinking straight and said nasty things as I was confused and frustrated.

She said that she gave herself to me and because I hurt her she became more distant.  Then she said I should have accepted her for who she was (I couldnt do that). She said that I broke her and never loved her because I never knew her.  She said just because she begged for my time and attention that I accused her of being jealous and possessive - which I guess is true.  But I was getting more and more fed up... .I didnt want to be around her.

I said to her that she never apologised for anything.  She said she did.  She said that it wasnt always my fault and I assumed thats what she though.  I have a busy life and she said that it wasnt that busy and she wanted to be part of it and that I shut her out. I responded by saying we were both stupid then... .  And she said "Yes very stupid and I am sorry very very sorry and I miss you so much it hurts, it still hurts".

She said shes not been bad mouthing me and it hurts to hear that Im moving on.  She said she thinks about me everyday and she's gutted.  She also said that maybe if we had have met a few months later then things would have been different and that we have got ourselves to blame and nobody elses fault.

TBF she has told me all this before a few times - but maybe my ears were shut.  As I didnt know how to handle her.  She said that she doesnt want to think of me hurting, and she said that she has hurt so painfully coz I seemed to have moved on so quickly (I had to make myself move on).  She said that I was so busy trying to get things how I wanted them that I never had time to learn what she needed - Again, true I guess. I said that I was probably messed up after my marriage ended and wasnt quite ready for a relationship. 

She said all this is such a shame as she would have done anything for me and loved me so passionately.  She says she knows I dont believe that she did, but she said she did... .and still does. She said she pulled away from me coz she couldnt handle the texts - the things I said cut deep with her... .I was a bit nasty sometimes... .I was just "getting my own back"... .stupid I know. 

She said she felt hard done to at times and that everyone else came first before her - she said this affected how she saw me but never hated me or stopped being in love with me. She said we should have talked better and she knows I didnt mean a lot of the stuff I said on the texts... .I responded that I was losing my mind with her and and was extremely frustrated. 

She said she just wanted to be mine.  She said that she just wanted me to love her and hold her.  She said that us f***** this up is going to be the biggest regret of her life.  She said shes been playing different scenarios over and over in her head.  I ended by saying this is a mess and she agreed wholeheartedly.  So I offered to go for a drink with her.

I think it was nice to hear all that.  I believe she means it.  I think Ive got some issues to work on also - Ive probably for once listened to her.  Dont think I really did as I was blinkered by what she did and how she acted and was so ready to fight back.  I perhaps have repeated the pattern I did with my ex wife and didnt give her the love that I should have.  I thought I did.  Im not saying that Im blaming myself for all this, but I was very paranoid when I first met her, and being a beautiful woman who was still living with her (ex?)boyfriend at the time... .it messed me up as she was always curious about who was ringing me or who I was talking to... .it was a really bad start.  Because of my paranoia, it maybe messed her up and made her into having some of these traits.  Shes had 2 relationships in the last 20 years so doesnt follow the classic BPD.  But the rages and ignoring and all the other stuff fits.

I dunno - will let you know how it goes... .

Cheers

Another case of a pwBPD coming back once the ex has moved on!

If she is a pwBPD then the outcome of your relationship would have been the same even if you had done everything right.  The disorder always wins in the end.

It sounds like she opened up to you a lot.  Whatever it is you are wanting from reconnecting, I hope all goes well with meeting up :)

Good luck with it all! It sure sounds like a better place to be in than being painted black or being at odds with one another... .whatever happens, it sounds like progress. Keep us all posted!

In your heart of hearts, do you have some idea of what you'd like to come out of it?

hey confusedbloke 

if you are reengaging, i strongly encourage you to consider posting and reading on the Improving board, and especially learning the lessons there. the skills and tools taught will be invaluable to improving your relationship (even if it remains at a friendship level), or for that matter, all of your relationships of all kinds.

Improving Board   (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=6.0)

the lessons are at the top of the thread list, and to the far right of the board.

My thoughts are she is in a bad place right now, her abandonment fears are kicking in as she sees you moving on. She's pouring her heart out to you to make herself feel better and once she does, aka once she knows you're at her mercy again, she'll drop you like a brick.

Be warned confused, you left her for a reason.

Hey everyone - thought I'd give an update on what happened... .

I met her in the bar.  She looked beautiful and yet nervous.  She wore my favorite clothes. She was shaking.

We engaged in small talk and then once we relaxed we started to talk.  Things felt different.

I had changed.  I'd become confident.  When I first met her 15 months ago, I was so nervous and not feeling good enough for her.  I dont feel that way anymore.

We relaxed even more and she admitted that she has been obsessed with me (I told you all that I downloaded fatal attraction - for research!) since the beginning!  She thought that I never cared about her and just went completely crazy.  She had 90% of the BPD traits.

When I first posted I said I felt like I was almost there - to break through to her... .But it just became too mental.

Leaving her for these 5 weeks has completely made her think about things - and me tbf. I think I have broken through to her.

I reached over and kissed her. She completely crumbled and started crying. She is besotted with me. I am besotted with her.

It feels like she has BPD but not in the finding another man sense. Its like Im the only man.  It really does feel that way. I dont know what it is but its like im her drug.  Its really weird, but we are both intoxicating to each other.  And I have to say, now that I studied up on all this lot, Im gonna enjoy this woman, I mean, just understand that shes not a normal woman (but what does that make me for being attracted to her?), and just enjoy her.

I mean who wouldnt want the most beautful girl (who you think is) absolutely dropping at your feet, adoring you and that every other bloke she sees is completely irrelevant... .She never notices them... .I love that.  And shes sweet and lovely, caring and nice... .  But its that dark side.  That insecure evil creature, Its that dark side that I want to get rid of.  Because she aint good like that. And I know she wants rid of it aswell... .she just needs to let go. And she will.

she likes the "Im missing you baby, wish you were here", kind of texts.  or "I love you baby"... .at any point during the day... .And do you know something - so do I.  When I met her I was like that. I sent texts like that all the time but because of my paranoias, and her crazy behaviour i Stopped being like that... .

We have both said tonight that we require an obsessesd partner. 

She is identical to me.  I need those texts.  I go insane if I dont get them.  She does. She needed 24/7 reassurance from me that I love her... .but so did I.  Because I didnt feel she was being right with me I backed off, which made her back off then we got into this awful tangle and this weird BPD type thing came out and it ended when I was about to get my head kicked in. 

None of that matters anymore.  I get her.  She gets me now. We get each other and adore each other.  She defo has BPD, but I can imagine them being the best partners for us kinda people once they trust us... .And thats why we endevour!

Thank you to all the wonderful contributors on this site - you have completely saved me... .really really have! love you all and I'll report back in a few months and let you know how it goes. And if it is really possible to be with someone who displays BPD traits

Ciao x

Well, sounds like you have made up your mind. Just please remember we all felt the same way you do now. I thought my ex and I were totally into each other too. It's how they operate. Please be careful - think about what you have learned here. Good luck.

Thanks blue. I have to give it a shot. I feel like I have a wealth of knowledge to be able to handle this now. But I will always be aware of BPD. That will never go.

Put it this way I bet a good 95% of the good people on this forum would go for it in my position... one last shot and if no good then I'll never wonder what if... .  but I will be sensible about this... .I know I'm playing with fire but I won't get burnt. It's gonna be cool. I get it now... .I understand what they need... .

Cheers

Confused, good luck! Yes, of course, we all would, given another chance. It certainly does seem as if you've broken down some of her walls. As long as you go into this with eyes wide open and remember that Ms. Hyde is liable to make an appearance again, and you are ready for it... .then you forewarned is forearmed, as they say.

I know exactly how you're feeling right now, having to some extent 're engaged' with my ex at the same time you were doing so. Not to the extent that we are back together, he is still fighting that, and who knows, maybe the little time I've had with him recently is all I'm going to get, but it was wonderful. He was the one who initiated the talk, the kiss, everything... .after  months of treating me like the invisible woman. It's been amazing. 

I don't resonate so much with the needing someone who is obsessed with me... .but it sounds to me that you've done your research and looked inside yourself. Like me, it seems that you understand your ex now better than you ever did before.  I even told mine that "I know you"... .and he agreed. I can also look inside myself, and being honest, admit to myself the times when  deep down, I kind of knew I was saying or doing something that would make him say I wasn't on his team. At the time I thought he was just extremely mercurial and that there was something very wrong... .I know so much more now than I did at the time, I reckon I could avoid the majority of such things happening again.


Echoing Blue, do tread carefully. Take it slowly. Keep your eyes open. But as you say, if you don't try, you'll never know.

Good luck! 

I for sure would have gone for it a few months ago! Good luck, stay safe, we'll be here if you need us. Thanks for the view from inside. I feel like you are describing my first few months with my ex.

Talk is cheap.  Judge her contrition by her actions, and not her words.

I wish you luck.

Thanks for all the comments guys.  And what is the status with your ex stripey? I hope it goes well... .  I want to look at this as a challenge.  I like a challenge  :)

WOW yes I will be careful.  I will be careful not to get sucked into the crazy way of thinking.

I feel different about the situation. I feel confident.  I just feel that I dont "need" her anymore.  But Id like to have her.

Theres a difference.  I can cope without her... .It was difficult, but I got on with it and would have been fine.

She said that the last 5 weeks have been the toughest of her life.  Shes been listening to all the sad songs and just basically missed me like mad and constantly thinking about me.  She is so scared of going back to them 5 weeks that I truly believe she will fight her demons in order to avoid that.  She has opened up unbelievably.  Its quite strange for me to hear, but I like it.  Its all I ever wanted.

And I found out what happened with the guys coming into the pub. Me and her had a fight a couple of months back.  It got physical and she was attacking me so I pushed her away very hard 3 times and she banged her head and her leg and arms and I kicked her - as I was sick of the abuse... .  I lost control Im ashamed to say... .But she pushed me to the absolute edge... .  Ive never been like that with anyone ever... .but I have since found out that those with BPD cant turn a completely nice, warm, rational man into a crazy monster... .  SO I don't feel too bad about it - as she had sent me insane!  Once I kicked her out of the house she went home bruised.  Her landlord asked what had happened - so he took it upon himself to come after me. I thought that she had been saying bad things about me.  But she hadnt.

Her issues come from the fact that she was just insecure that I didnt like her - thats all what it was about.  And TBF it became that way.

I went off her and it spiralled terribly out of control... .to the point of physical violence... .

Oh and I got my keys back.  I never asked for them - I was waiting to see if she offered.  And she did. I never asked for any explanation as to why she never gave them back.  I waited to see if she would.  And again she did.  She said that she just couldnt bring herself to send them as then it would be completely final.  She truly is besotted with me - because for the first time in her life she has met a good man.  She sees how I am with my kids.  She sees how much my kids love me and she desperately wants to be a part of my family... .Im a good dad and a good partner.  She got so scared of losing us, that she went nuts, and well, lost us.  She needs a positive influence in her life... .not one that constantly criticises her (which I did, and every other person in her life).  I wont criticise her ever again.  My mother criticised everything I did... .I didnt like it... .so I can relate to that.

She has also since got herself a good job (shes been out of work for months), and she said that she has something else to focus on now.

She said she wanted to get the job so she could be a part of us - so we can go on family holidays etc.  She had been day dreaming constantly about all of us together - these 5 weeks really have woken her up.  She said it was a massive wake up call... .She has an idealised view of how a family should be... .and Im the man that is like that.  Me and the kids are like that.

She said that she cannot believe shes got another chance and that she will not mess it up this time.  I said the same back.  Ive never heard her apologize or be so honest with me before... .Its nice.

I want to be on an even keel with her.  I dont want to gloat or "show her the error of her ways".  I want to show her positivity only... .in that she can rely on me.  She can rely on me to always be there for her... .  We will crack this.  I will react differently when I see she is about to trigger.  I dont know how, but because Im armed with all this information from you amazing guys, I feel it will just come naturally.  BPD is terrible for everyone concerned but I genuinely believe its reversible, with the non being patient and understanding what makes them tick.  I get it now.  Its a lot of hassle, but I think shes worth it.

Although I could be talking complete nonsense and deluding myself!   

Nevertheless, my gut is saying go for it.  Oh and when I said I like someone to be obsessed with me, I meant I like to be the most important person in their life... .same as what she needs with me... .

So wish me luck, I'll update from time to time and let everyone know how its going... .and with any luck I'll be back in the forum with the magic formula that has made for a harmonious relationship with someone with BPD, and not here to get over my ex again... .

Cheers!

As I said, I don't know my 'status' at the moment, he is currently away for a few weeks on his annual holiday home. I guess we will see where the land lies when he returns. I suppose I have in essence 'got back on the merry go round' although not sure I was ever off it, really. My heart never changed.

I am well aware that when he gets back he could be utterly resolved that we don't work as a couple. But I also know now, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is unable to stay away from me permanently. Let's see. Either way, I am in a much better place than I have been for months.

I get the feeling here your looking at her like some kind of puzzle to solve, and if you can put all the pieces together then maybe you might consider reconciliation at a romantic level and if not then see ya.  :)isordered or not she is a human being with feelings not a puzzle or a challenge to be figured out or not.  :)on't play games with her.

There is also the issue of this constant need for validation on both your parts.  This is an issue I feel needs to be addressed before any consideration for romantic reconciliation occurs.  It is not healthy in any way, shape or form.

I see some glossing over of reality here which is understandable, we all have done it.  Tread carefully my friend and conduct yourself with integrity.

confusedbloke, you should know that therapists who have studied and treated people with BPD for decades, will see their own therapist when treating someone with BPD.

reconciling can be a great thing. youre sweeping major issues under the rug, and doing so with reckless abandon. there is no magic formula but i want to reiterate, there are proven skills and tools on the Improving board where partners have seen incredible success. you dont have to disappear from the board, and you dont have to do this alone.

I think you are swept up in magical thoughts, not to mention the idealization phase.


I beg to differ here.  There is no cure for BPD.  It takes a qualified therapist YEARS to work through the layers associated with a disordered soul, and not all are successful.  So, what hope does an armchair psychologist have "reversing" the disorder?  At a guess... .0 to none chance.

With that said, I wish you all the best, and hope things do work out the way you want them to :)   

Youre probably right guys - I have no real agenda... .I just want to give it a shot.  If it fails then it fails.  Im am absolutely on my guard and fully aware of the condition... .

I know that if this time does fail, then at least I tried, with the knowledge I accrued.  Im a researcher and tester by nature, if I didn't try this then I wouldn't be being true to myself.

Ive been through hell with her because I didn't know anything about the condition... .I was treating her like I was in a normal relationship and absolutely baffled why she did things a certain way... .But I do get her now.  I know what she needs and she knows what I do.  If I don't get what I need then I will walk away.

TBH its highly unlikely that anything will come of it because her friends do not like me and mine do not like her.  Everyone thinks our relationship was a joke and as far as everyone is concerned we are not in touch - there would be no way we could be seen together - so I doubt much will come of it.

I am actually ok about all this.  Im not being all love struck like I was at the beginning of our relationship.  Im aware of things now. 

It was basically the other night.  I went on a date - it went well, and lets say, it ended up being a one night stand.  I awoke in the morning and just felt crap.  I haven't had a one night stand in over 20 years... .So that's when I texted exBPDgf.  I asked to meet her for a drink and it went from there.  But when we talked it was like talking to someone else.  She says she has learnt her lesson etc etc etc.  Shes never spoken like that before.  It was always my fault.  But I look back and I was very insecure at the beginning and I did treat her quite badly... .and she was falling for me quickly and I guess couldn't handle it... .then it ended up as it was.

I don't feel insecure anymore.  I feel in control of me and my life.  Ive needed these weeks away from her to gather my thoughts... .

Thanks for the comments guys and I'll let you know :)

You're incredibly lucky. I remember getting those txt's as well... I remember how amazing she can be too...   I'm with you on this, I believe there is hope in a happy ending and it goes against everything I believed a few months back. I'd give anything to be you right now.

Hi mate

I had the same attitude second time around with mine - I was 'BPD aware' but the disorder won in the end despite my best efforts.    Just a word of friendly advice - treat her well, but keep a bit of yourself back this time.

First break up I was devastated, second time I was relieved. The only difference was that I was wary and wanted actions not words before I let her break my heart again.


Fanny

^^^^^^ this.

There is no magic formula. You are not better or smarter than all those therapists, psychologists and shrinks that have tried to treat pwBPD.

You say you will never criticize her again. That you are the ideal partner. That you and your children are the ideal family.

Ideal does not exist. In an adult relationship you do criticize each other but in a healthy mature way. Why? Because you are 2 people, not 1, and you will NEVER agree on EVERYTHING and you will never feel not hurt by something she says. Wake up, people in relationships get hurt. The trick is to know how to handle hurting and being hurt. Neither of you is able to do so IMHO.

Never criticizing her again, accept everything she will ever say and do (basically being a doormat), you have just (again) put on your shiny armor and climbed on to your white horse. You're playing puzzle solver and saviour rolled into one.

You say you have learned about BPD behaviour but I wonder what you have learned about your own behaviour apart from loosing it because she 'went nuts'. Why do you need to be in a relationship where you can play the saviour or the puzzle solver? Why do you need to feel in control? Why do you need to paint an ideal picture, where you are the ideal man, she is the ideal woman and with your kids you will create the ideal family? Have you looked into how your mother's criticism has influenced you in how you view yourself and relationships?

And as to 'having someone', people are not possessions. The only person you will ever 'own' is you. Everybody else is their own master and beyond your control.

Just to echo others: Tread carefully my friend. It does not take much to become enmeshed in BPD whirlwind of confusion and disorder again and again and again, especially if you still love them. I feel for you. I went through multiple breakup/recycles with my ex. The second to last one was a six week break followed by a similar situation that you currently find yourself in. She was extremely open to any questions I had and admitted to knowing that she was hurting me. She told me “she loved me and always will” and “letting me go was possibly the worst mistake she is making in her life”. Well I fell right back in and just like you I was so damn confident that I had learned my lesson and could use my new found knowledge, patience, and skills to have a healthy continued relationship with my uexBPDgf. Well maybe a month in I saw the 'old her' creeping back in and it just went downhill from there. Nothing I could do or say could stop it. And trust me it crushed me even more. She ended up leaving me for her ex BF. I got burned.

It is wrong to believe that you can stop her BPD from manifesting. This line of thinking will get you in trouble. Trust her actions not her words as you continue forward. Good Luck to you

"There is no magic formula. You are not better or smarter than all those therapists, psychologists and shrinks that have tried to treat pwBPD.

You say you will never criticize her again. That you are the ideal partner. That you and your children are the ideal family.

Ideal does not exist. In an adult relationship you do criticize each other but in a healthy mature way. Why? Because you are 2 people, not 1, and you will NEVER agree on EVERYTHING and you will never feel not hurt by something she says. Wake up, people in relationships get hurt. The trick is to know how to handle hurting and being hurt. Neither of you is able to do so IMHO.

Never criticizing her again, accept everything she will ever say and do (basically being a doormat), you have just (again) put on your shiny armor and climbed on to your white horse. You're playing puzzle solver and saviour rolled into one.

You say you have learned about BPD behaviour but I wonder what you have learned about your own behaviour apart from loosing it because she 'went nuts'. Why do you need to be in a relationship where you can play the saviour or the puzzle solver? Why do you need to feel in control? Why do you need to paint an ideal picture, where you are the ideal man, she is the ideal woman and with your kids you will create the ideal family? Have you looked into how your mother's criticism has influenced you in how you view yourself and relationships?

And as to 'having someone', people are not possessions. The only person you will ever 'own' is you. Everybody else is their own master and beyond your control."



Really great advice WoundedBibi... .

Hi everyone - thanks for your comments once again.  Certainly a mixed bag of responses.

Ok so woundedbibi... .You have felt quite passionate in your text... .

I think ideal does exist.  Ideal is what motivates us in life.  What is your ideal?  Do you have one?  Or do you hang about on these forums and put people down because they are trying to make a shot of something?  Thats not me.  Im an idealist.  You sound quite bitter and negative.  Maybe you should change your attitude in life and get out there instead of stifling other peoples opinions when they are asking for help? After 856 posts surely you should be starting to move on by now?

And its not about being a puzzle solver - youve clearly read someone elses post and jumped on that.  Its about doing your research, knowing that the partner is in fact a good person, and doing what you can to make it work.  I think youve read too many BPD stories and formed the opinion that they are all the same... .When in fact they arent.  Everybody is different - BPD or not.  We are all individual.  And no.  Im not going to criticize her - I did all along... .and its wrong.  No one deserves to be criticized (get the hint) for being the person they are.  And Ive learned plenty about my own behaviour - obviously you scanned through my posts without actually reading them.  And its not about possesions or being in control - re read what I said without being annoyed and you might get it. Look tbh, I think you are in a bad place and its not actually worth conversing with you - youre not the kind of person that I wish to take advice from. But if all this backfires then you can say I told you so, and you will feel good about that.

Thanks Fanny and Alex they are positive words of encouragement and warnings... .very productive messages, thank you.

Hi Flyfish.  The only way that the relationship will change is if you do.  I have completely changed.  When I met her I was insecure and paranoid.  I didnt treat her very well because of that. I am not that person anymore.  But what you are saying is exactly whats happening with me... .and I will be aware - thank you.

Heron, I have always been a positive person... Youve just basically copied what that very wounded person said. I believe the best in people, well most people anyway.  If you read betweeen the lines of what I put then you will understand that, yes idealistic, I feel that this approach is going to be miles better than the approaches we have all identically done before. Everyone does the same - neediness.  It doesnt work.  It doesnt work with nons so it certainly aint gonna work with BPDers.  Being confident, strong and in control of your own life and kind to people is the only way to be.  When I met her I was broken after my marriage breakdown... .  I was needy. Its quite easy to work out really.

Anyway I picked her up from work and she wanted to show me around the place.  Its a huge auditorium where all the top acts go.  Very cool.  She came back and we went to bed.  We got up and its just totally different.  She actually said tonight that "I havent done any of them stupid behavious since we split up".  She also said that she cannot do the last 5 weeks again.  It has killed her.  But it was the wake up call she needed. I knew it.  I had to leave her and let her work things out.  She will fight those demons coz the alternative is too difficult for her... .  And I'll be there with her, supporting her and looking after her... .  And as I say, if the old her comes out then so be it - I'll be ok... .  I'll move on, but at least this time I knew what I was getting into.

Cheers

You know, it's great you're feeling good about your decision to take up this relationship again, but I have to wonder why you're looking for validation here. Once Removed's advice to move over to the Improving board seems reasonable. What's not reasonable is telling someone else they should have moved on.

That persons comments I felt were a little cutting. I was certainly not trying to be the big I am saying that my armchair psychology was going to fix the situation... I was just pouring my heart out as it's a confusing time. I was just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I felt that person insulted what I said so I was trying to make them realise that before they start telling me what is right and wrong that maybe after all this time of being on here, perhaps they should go and get into the world and move on with life

I don't think it was intended that way. I think she is just trying to get you to understand the situation. I think if yours is really BPD, then it will be harder than you realize. You need to do what you need to do. I took classes through NAMI while I was still with mine. I think it scared him that I would figure him out and leave him. I wouldn't tell her that you now "understand" her, because you probably don't. I don't understand mine, but I think I do more than other people if you know what I mean. We all have been through allot here and many of us have been through many recycles. We just don't want to see you get hurt again. If you are up for the responsibility and effort is takes to be in this, then more power to you. Some of us are still reeliing in the pain from many years of being in it... .I hope you can understand. We wish the best for you. We know how strong that feeling of love for these people can be. I takes over all other feelings. Just be careful... .that's all. It could work if she gets help for herself. They do realize they need to change and they do it for awhile. It's hard for them to keep it up... .I understand your frustration. You want to do what your heart tells you... .It is really difficult. You do what's best for you and we will support you either way. You may want to get some advice from the staying or undecided section of the group though... .see if they can be supportive in a different way- especially the saving the relationship thread... Good luck.

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It does sound confusing. You didn't seem all that confused in what you wrote, but maybe that's a kind of self-talk to keep you optimistic?

Anyhow, many of us will read this:


and react negatively to the suggestion that they are struggling because they aren't getting out in the world. There's a helpful way to say that, and there's a not-helpful way. How many of us have heard from friends, family, people who have never experienced a relationship like this, to "just move on with life"? We are here to show a little more compassion for each other, I hope.

Furthermore (though maybe you weren't aware), woundedbibi has health issues that limit her mobility.

I posted before seeing the note from the moderator, and I hope what I said wasn't out of line. confusedbloke, I hope you don't feel non-supported here.

As interesting as this discussion has been, I agree with once removed it now belongs on a different board.

A lot of us on this side of the website are processing a LOT of pain and negative emotion while also trying to be protective of others on here so they are not exposed to further hurt.

Congratulations confused on your development. I wholeheartedly admire your optimism and I can only wish you the best of luck and success but please tread carefully mate. As much as you have gained understanding from this website, you know the risks and the potential to be right back here in a few months even further crushed than before (of course I hope that doesn't happen). With that being said, if that does happen, the people commenting here are the ones you may be looking to for further help and support. It's important we all be respectful.

When I met my ex I was in a relatively good place emotionally, feeling grounded and stable with good self-confidence and self-esteem.  I slowly became insecure and somewhat paranoid  as a result of the things my ex said and did.  I never really acted on those feelings but they ate away at me and caused a significant amount of anxiety and fear throughout the entire relationship.  I don't know if my ex really understands the impact of the things she says and does on a conscious level but sub-consciously it was a means to control me.  I think somewhere in her mind she thinks if I am insecure/paranoid with respect to her that I will work that much harder to hold onto her ... .and she was right.  I did work that much harder, putting up with things I should have never put up with.  I wanted so much to believe in her and trust her and I overlooked a lot of things because of that.  

The point here is she caused the instability within me and even though I pointed it out to her and she agreed it was wrong and didn't want to be that way she never really stopped doing/saying the things that kept me feeling insecure with respect to her.  

There is nothing wrong with feeling insecure if there is good reason for feeling that way.  I had so many conversations with myself in my head explaining away gut feelings/instincts that something wasn't right, that she wasn't being completely honest, that something was going on.  I convinced myself I had no good reason to feel paranoid/insecure, but it didn't help with the anxiety and fear.  I felt like it was just a matter of time before the other shoe dropped and sadly it did.  

The times when I attempted to discuss this stuff with her was usually met with a very childlike response (behavior and verbally) from her, playing the victim taking attention away from my feelings and making it all about her.  I let her do this, she effectively manipulated me emotionally to feel sympathy and guilt.  As a result the issues never got addressed and the emotional wounds never healed.  She had effectively marginalized my feelings and emotional well being  ... .sweeping any uncomfortable relationship issue under the rug, especially when it came to my feelings.  

Over time I eventually let her do this sweeping without protest  ... .she had completely conditioned me to let her do this.   It was easier to do this than to try and have an adult conversation with her because when I did she would more times than not have a 2-3 day meltdown into a pit of depression, despair and self-pity ... .complete with the suicide ideation.  The downside to letting her sweep is it also resulted in me withdrawing and distancing myself from the pain and it impacted me in ways I am only beginning to see and understand now at 10 months post trash bin.  It obviously impacted our relationship as well.

Why am I telling you all this?  To show you that no matter how strong and secure you might think you are it can so very quickly change.  Also please be aware that your need for constant validation suggests that you aren't really as secure as you might think you are.  This is something you should be giving serious consideration to as you move forward.  Be careful not to bury you head in the sand and hope for the best CB.

Interesting point C.Stein.

But I think if you take them less seriously it shouldn't be difficult. If you come from a place where you actually decide that you're 2 people having fun and spending time together instead of viewing her as some sort of prize or your one and only your emotions shouldn't get in the way.

I know mine liked having freedom, she didn't like to feel smothered or pedestalized, or overly jealous. And that was exactly what I was doing, because my emotions got the better of me. BPD or not, no woman would like that or respect a man that does that. She was indirectly causing it, yes, but looking back I know that I could've probably prevented this if I just chilled the hell out.

What you have described here is not a romantic relationship, it is a friendship at best.


I encouraged my ex to be independent, to stand on her own two feet and have confidence in herself.  I supported her efforts to this end and provided advice and guidance when needed.  I wouldn't let her put me in the position to take responsibility for her life and decisions, and she did try to do just that on numerous occasions.   Did this help our relationship?  It did in some significant ways.  Did it help her manage her "dark side" with more success ... .I think it did.  Did it stop her dark side from controlling her decisions and behavior when it was critical for her to keep it under control ... .no it didn't.

Well, define romantic relationship. Some guys expect their gf to be their mommies and hold their hand wherever they go. Some like to have more space and feel crowded when that happens. Different strokes, different folks.

But if I have learned 1 thing is that women like you more if you don't take them too seriously. If you become this sensitive guy that acts out every time she does something wrong they lose respect for you.

All I'm getting at is that I probably wouldn't have ended up here if I didn't get caught up in my own emotions. You just can't let a woman's crap get the better of you.

bAlex,

after a series of bad/unhealthy relationships in high school, and realizing my lack of confidence, at around age eighteen i shared many of your views about women.

you could argue that i proceeded to trade in one romantic attachment style (anxious) for another (avoidant). it led me to my relationship with my ex, in which i behaved more or less as youre proposing might work in a relationship with a person with BPD. it did not.

and most importantly this was not me being authentic, truly confident, comfortable in my skin, and displaying firm boundaries.

want to find a healthy mature woman (who would not stand for not being taken seriously)? lose these ideas about women in general, and develop those things.

Hi everyone - thought Id give an update... .  I know this probably belongs on a different board, but I kinda know you guys now, and you know my story, and I dont think I wish to start another thread with a set of strangers.

Plus Id like to think you are interested to know... .

Firstly I just would like to apologise if I seemed short with certain members... .  I take offence quite easily, particularly when Im trying to remain positive.  I was just trying to build us ALL up and have a little faith in ourselves and try something different... .

So anyway everything was going fantastically - very in to each other until yesterday.

My ex wife came to pick the kids up and we talked for a while, while exBPD was upstairs.  My mother is ill in hospital and my exwife was telling me about what happened (she is closer to my mother than I am).

When she went, I went upstairs and I could tell her mood had changed.  She said that she is ok but she doesnt like the fact that my exwife can just walk in to the house and bla bla... .Same old crap from before... .I changed and bent everything for her, but nothing made her happy.

Anyway she went to sleep for a bit.  I tidied the house and started to get a bit freaked out as nothing had really changed - she was back to her old ways... .  When she woke I said that perhaps she should go home.  Then she became angry.  As I wasnt bothered by her outburst - and i left her to it and went and watched tv for a bit.  After 20 mins she came back into the house and I said "would you like to discuss it now?".  She said yes.  I said to her that everything we agreed on when we were together is now null and void.  And I absolutely will not compromise my integrity because of her issues.  I said if this is no good then we will absolutely not work.  I said to her that I changed all sorts for her and i was all over the place because I didnt know whether I was coming or going.  I will not do this again. After a few minutes she thought about it and apologised.  She also said that really should should have asked about my mother first.  It was a break through.  She is very much in love with me and is scared to lose me again. I was stronger for once.  I will not put up with her crap. 

Later on that day she opened up about her past and said that she trusted me 100%.  She admitted that her childhood has probably caused her to be this way and she doesnt want to be like this anymore.  Now she was in my camp, I mentioned about therapy and she said she started looking for a counsellor during our 5 week break.  But she also said she doesnt want a therapist at the moment as she just wants to talk to me about things.  I dont know if that will help or not, or if it is the right thing to do, but its what she feels comfortable with at the moment... so Im not going to put any pressure on her - and I think AlexB is right... .  Just chill out with them and set boundaries.  I feel quite positive that this approach will work.  I did tell her that when I had therapy it made me feel great, and thats what I will keep doing (planting the seed in her head about the positive aspects as opposed to labelling her 'crazy'.  I wont tell her shes crazy anymore and needs therapy, I will tell her that going there did ME the world of good... .so it may work for her.  She is absolutely besotted with me, and tbf I am with her.  She fascinates me. 

She was absolutely overjoyed that we managed to resolve an issue for the FIRST time ever. She said she was fighting all of her instincts to just run out of the house and ignore me and it was my instinct to kick her out.

When we had totally relaxed back into each other - I bigged the whole situation up, saying it was "amazing that we resolved that", and "wow we may just work afterall".  I was positively reinforcing the fact that resolving the issue was better than ignoring me for days and being sad.  I also said that if she had have gone, we would not work and that we should never try again.  She also said (with tongue in cheek) that she couldnt believe that I didnt come out to see her when I gave her 20 mins.  I usually would, all guns blazing, due to frustration.  I said that I feel different now.  Im not the same as before.  She thanked me for giving her 20 mins.  She said she needs that if we fall out.  I always remember her saying that, but because I was confused and frustrated with her I couldnt help but want to fight... .Not anymore.  Im going to respect her wishes.  If she wants 20 mins time out, she can have it.

I researched BPD so much and it all boils down to trust, well in my situation.  Im sure its not the same for everyone.  But Ive done my research and I will put it into practice.

So when I said I think its reversible, I didnt mean that Im a psychologist and know what Im doing, I wasnt saying that I knew everything, I just know her.  I know shes a good person, she just needs someone to trust... .and the only way that this will ever have a glimmer of hope is if I change things... .If I take the lead role and let her know how I expect to be treated and respect her wishes also

Anyway - I hope everyone is well :)

That is excellent news! I'm gonna say it again, I wish I was in you're position right now.

Yes I do think most people don't know how to handle the situation without escalating it. Point is you shouldn't get emotional or sucked into her current state, let it go, stand your ground, don't be rude and it will pass. Not saying it will be easy, but if you think she's worth fighting for then why not at least try?

And that's all I want for myself, to just be able to try. I got way too emotional back then and I'm not ignoring her mistakes but I could've handled things better myself. Not everything is such a big deal so why freak out?

And thanks for the update.

What is your situation / status at the moment... .And yes I do believe that if you knew what you were getting yourself into, then you would have dealt with it differently... .

I got way too emotional also - its because the situation was nuts and trying to make her happy was the wrong way to go about it... .Her demands became insane and unreasonable... .It was a nightmare... .But I didn't understand what was going on... .But Im going to persevere and see how it goes... .Not thinking too much about it and Ive detached from our old relationship now... .

And yeah, everything is a big deal to them... .End of the world type stuff... .  But rising above it will change the dynamics of the relationship... .And no its not going to be easy, coz I have to bite my lip when she's being ridiculous, but the more I practice this, the more it will become natural and it might even change the way I am with other people... .I.e. not so quick to react (like I did on this thread)... .  This is something that I need to work on.  Im a positive person and love to learn, so who knows, this woman could actually be helping me to be a better person?


Cheers

I was discarded, still hear from her from time to time though.

It's hard to just let her go, knowing that she's actually a good person, just a bit damaged from her childhood. I believe she needs a strong person in her life, someone to rely on, especially when she acts out.

One thing I learned was not to try and fix everything, it usually causes things to go south real quick, and I think I did it not only because I became emotional but also because I was idealizing her and treating her like a princess.  And because I did that I took small things personally and as a sign of disloyalty, basically became over sensitive. Some problems are her's to deal with and are really not that important to get upset about. Also people aren't perfect, I was literally trying to change her by pointing out her mistakes in a bad way and blaming her in the hopes that she would give in to me. Didn't work, but I kept doing it till she just couldn't deal with it anymore. She played her part, so did I. She's not blameless, but I think I overreacted a great deal. Sad really.

I don't know what the bla bla is but personally I don't see this as unreasonable under normal circumstances so I'm not entirely sure why you would get angry here?

Worth noting, I wasn't overly emotional with my ex.  There were a handful of times she pushed me over the edge, but the vast majority of the time I handled her "nonsense" without getting angry or letting it escalate.  I generally managed her moods well I think, but that didn't stop her from the subtle manipulations, deceiving and lying to me or replacing me months before she threw me away.

IMO, a relationship where one partner has one foot out the door isn't a relationship at all.  I say this because this is the distinct impression I am left with here CB.  It is not fair to you or her if this is how you have to conduct the relationship.  Please consider this as you move forward.

Hi Stein... .No I didn't get angry, she did.  I meant bla bla, because it was always this obsession she had about my exwife.  I was just sick of hearing it.  Its not that she just walks in - I invite her in to drop the kids off... .And I was setting boundaries by saying you cannot tell me what to do anymore.  I bent over double trying to appease her and her wishes and in the end everything I did triggered her.  So from the beginning I am saying now that I have a very good relationship with my exwife (for the sake of the kids), and if that is not acceptable then we cannot continue.  Im not going to be treated badly by her again... .My kids have boundaries and we get on really well - amazingly actually... .

Being single them few weeks has made me realise the hell I was put through - but I didn't help with how I reacted to her... .And I felt freedom to be who I want to be.  But I do want the exgf just not in the way it was... .

Alex - yep everything you have said there mirrors exactly the way I was... .Ive never been like that before and I wont again... .  Hope it works out my friend... .

@ confusedbloke

haha thanks, but at this point it would literally take a miracle

I would encourage you to open a thread on the improving board CB.  I see problems in your future, least of which is you are likely triggering her abandonment fears.  There is nothing wrong with the boundary you set concerning your ex wife, but the manner in which you enforced it is not conducive to a healthy relationship, especially with a borderline.  Something to consider if you want this relationship to go anywhere other than where it has already been.

Thanks for the advice stein. I'm not as knowledgeable in this subject.

I'll perhaps give an update in 6 months or so and let you know how things panned out.

In the meantime thanks everyone you helped me through a tough time. I hope you all find what ur looking for...

:)

Oft! I have to say... .total alarm bells ringing... .for you. Abandonment fears bring out their most loving side... .then you'll be accused of smothering her. I don't believe you can win. Please just listen to your gut and get out when it feels bad again. Been there, done that. Worried for you.