BPDFamily.com

Hello,

My first question may seem like an obvious one, but most of the posts about love lost, confusion, pain, manipulation are from people like myself, whom have been deeply hurt, lied to, led up the garden path and filled by empty promise. Then been disgarded out of the blue! Do our experiences only happen to us, because we are so emotionally tied ( in love? ) with our partners?

What i am interested in, is do BPD sufferers, have the ability to sustain long term, meaningful FRIENDSHIPS, that are totally removed from any of the ' pain '?.

My Ex girlfriend, appears to only have a minimal amount of friends, let alone close ones, and the only people she spends time with, appear to put her on a pedalstool, and ' look up? ' to her.

Some mutual friends, that we spent time with during our 3 years together, are privy to what went on in our relationship, ( she was exposed as having lied ) and now, they too, have lost their trust in her.

Would it cause any anger, sadness or hate, to my Ex, knowing that i, and others DO NOT TRUST HER, anymore!... as she broke that bond!... .as i would be mortified, to be known as someone, who could not be trusted, as that is the core, of how i go about, living my life.

Any replies much appreciated. Thanks

My ex doesn't keep friends for very long. The ones from childhood are still "friends" because their families are friends... .they are not close to him though, living in different states. He is not even close to his sister. He doesn't maintain friendships and pushed away mine. The only way he seems to maintain them is on Facebook. At a distance.

My ex doesn't have close friends - he just doesn't seem to let friends get too close to him.  Heck, he isn't even close to his sister, who he called the police on when they were teenagers lol

My former friend moves from one group of friends to the other.  I only know of myself and another close friend of hers prior to me being banished into the black hole of nothingness.  Although, that friend has now re-engaged with her.  The BPD has had one close friend for nearly 20 years.  I think it works because that friend moved to another country 10 years ago, so the distance suits her.  She doesn't really split most friends - I guess they aren't that close for her to feel threatened.  The friendships are most likely superficial. 

The short answer is no.

My ex keeps a handful of casual/superficial friends around her in the form of roommates and coworkers.

She essentially has an untraceable social history, even on Facebook. She would often talk about so and so being her "mega best friend" or even "best buddy", but I've never seen these ladies face to face or see her communicate with them very much. Add distance to that equation, I guess it's easy to see why.

Only her family seems to be the mainstay of her contacts, and by family, I meant her immediate family. They seem to despise their extended family for whatever reason.

Just for kicks, her favorite coworker/friends right now is a lady from Laos who doesn't even speak that great of English and kind of "look up" to my ex.

I don't think having a lot of friends (or not) is indicative of a borderline personality.  My ex has many acquaintances and so do I, but how many of those are "close" friends is a very subjective determination.  We need to be careful to not attribute every little detail about our ex's that doesn't "sit right" with us as being borderline. 

Ask yourself this question.  Why does it matter how many "close" friends a person has?  Introverts don't typically have many friends and certain not many close friends.  Does this make them borderline?  I think we all know the answer to that.

My uBPD doesn't have any close friends.  Some friends he has known a long time, but he rarely sees them.  I think he can't get too close or they would experience his silent treatment and rage.

He does seem to have some type of weird connection with his first wife from over 40 years ago.  I don't know if I would call it love, but he sends her a card on her birthday every year and emails her now and then.  He claims it is to keep up with their children, but I'm not so sure about that.  The children are grown and want nothing to do with him.  Her husband recently died and he wrote her a letter asking what it was like finding him dead in their home and a bunch of other weird stuff about his death!  It is kind of a sick attachment/cruel type of relationship.  If he calls her she usually ends up hanging up on him.

I agree C.Stein, we can't base how many close friends someone has on determining BPD.    But I do see uBPD having problems with having close relationships with anyone.

I try hard not to speak in generalities about people, but I will here in this case, keeping in mind everyone is an unique individual.

Borderlines typically lack the ability to create their own identity (eg. identity disturbance).  If you ask people who have been in or are in relationships with borderlines you will probably find many (if not all) of them have heard something similar to "I don't know who I am" at one time or another.  

Because of this they look outside themselves for their identity.  They will portray a personality they want to be and when that mask is validated then they can believe in that identity.  When the mask shatters and falls off (deception, lies, infidelity, etc... .) and their true self is exposed, the very people who they relied on for their identity now mirror their true selves instead of the person the mask portrayed.  This will likely lead to intense self-loathing and shame and as a result they will do almost anything to avoid those feelings.   Typically it will start with devaluing and eventually end up with pushing those people out of their lives completely.  

I tried to be s really good friend to my 'friend' and even that friendship had the push/pull and silent treatment many times throughout the 10 months we were back in touch.  He hasn't spoke to me in 6 weeks now after me getting frustrated and getting angry with him moving the goalposts for the umpteenth time.

I have no idea how many friends he has as I don't live near him.  But he certainly threw away our friendship despite promising me nothing would jeopardise it.

Mine when she 1st roped me back said it looked like I had a ton of friends. I really do t have a ton but I do have friends. Some very close like we all do. Anyway she went at first to say that she didn't have any friends to literally in the same breathe to she has close friends like co workers that she hangs out with like after work dinner and coffee and going to the gym. I feel these individuals have NO IDEA what my ex really is. Little do they know... .

I've read a lot on them not having close friends for long. That's one of the symptoms of BPD. Numerous chaotic and turbulent relationships? A friendship is the same. Sooner or they screw the other person over or use them. The few friends my ex had acted the way she did. You can't keep a relationship or friendship long if you swing back and forth from blaming, anger, happiness and depression. So my opinion is what friends they do have would be friends they can use.

From my (albeit limited) limited sample size of knowing maybe six possible pwBPD's, they CAN have long-term friendships/relationships, but those relationships are all very complicated in their own unique ways. They don't seem capable of having simple, deep, equal friendships without some kind of distortion - either the idolizing type of relationship, or the one-up-on-them type of relationships. But also some where those roles flip around. My most recent uBPDex had some long-term friends who seemed to be important to her, but these were people that I'd heard her (privately) WAY over-praise and rip to shreds over nothing and express extreme hostility or jealousy about, alternately.

Seems accurate with my ex talking about her "best friends" and her roommates. A few positive things with a myriad of negative comments associated with them.

my separated bph always said, "i have no close friend to confide in like you do!"    i pretty much put all my friendships on hold while with my ex.     i would talk with them only when i was alone.  i felt guilty talking to them when ex was home, taking time from "us".     my ex had friends from his past, but no one he would talk to more than once a year, and that was usually by accident.     my ex hated parties and get togethers,  not sure if that was a lie or not.   we never went to anything for fun , it was usually cuz we had to, ie   graduations.    he was a perfect charming gentleman at these occasions.   add that to his drop dead gorgeousness and people would look at me like, damn girl, youre lucky.     little did they know on the way home i would be getting the silent treatment because the bartender was a MALE or  the person getting the trash took my plate.    nothing i could even remotely control.   that is what i miss the LEAST!   i did have a friend from 4th grade, were talking the year 1968,     that i keep in annual touch with, who is probably gay by the way, and i would have to send him Christmas and birthday cards on the sly... .  for real.  my ex'x lack of security posed the majority of our problems in the marriage.   i could have NO male friends.   not sure why i was ok with changing my whole life for this man.

Just my 2c: my ex HPD/BPD has incredible social skills, so it's not a problem for her to have lots of superficial friendships that usually last only weeks or a few months.

On the other hand, she has ZERO long-term, close, intimate friendships: sooner or later, they all terminate because of her drama or unacceptable actions.

So, in my case the practice confirms the theory :D

I always found this situation strange with my ex. She had very few friends. In fact, she often told me that she "hates losing friends" aand she had a hard time keeping them. One time she even said, "I don't have friends. I have family." That was a huge  red-flag that I ignored. All of this made the discard all the more painful: she frequently stated, "You're a good friend. I don't want that to ever change" and "I don't want to hurt you." Well, it did change, through her actions, and she hurt me VERY badly.

My ex rarely saw her "best friend." All of her other "close" friends (I put close in parenthesis because it's ironic) lived hours away, and she frequently made excuses not to see them. It was as if she deliberately kept them at arm's length. The other "friendships" she had were superficial: people she would occasionally get together with at MeetUp events (which she rarely goes to anymore). She spent a LOT of her free time with me. Looking back on it, it's as if I was the only person who would willingly spend a lot of time with her... .and she ruined it. Anyone who gets too close she had to push away. It sucks, because I forgive her. I understand her, and am one of the very few people who does. I would like to spend time with her again, but she told me "do not contact me again," and she avoids me like the plague. It's tragic, confusing, and heartbreaking. I really do love her, just for her. And I know deep down she cares about me, or else (ironically) she wouldn't have pushed me away.  She doesn't love herself enough to let me love her

BPD stbxw has no friends and she's 38 years old. Her family is also estranged.  So my wife literally has no one, except her 3 small children. My two sisters were friends with her for a few months before they introduced me to her, but my sisters want nothing to do with her now. 

It's sad because she doesn't understand that it's her, not everyone else, that is causing these relationship breakdowns.  How can someone so freaking intelligent not look at common denominators, glaring, blatant, in your face evidence that maybe, just maybe there's something wrong with how you treat people.  Ugh.  BPD is so ugly, for the borderliner and those who try to love them.

I've wondered the same thing. Mine knew she had problems, but refused to change her behaviors and attitudes to improve things. This is the saddest episode I've ever gone through, bro. It's truly tragic. There's no other way to describe it.

"From my (albeit limited) limited sample size of knowing maybe six possible pwBPD's, they CAN have long-term friendships/relationships, but those relationships are all very complicated in their own unique ways. They don't seem capable of having simple, deep, equal friendships without some kind of distortion - either the idolizing type of relationship, or the one-up-on-them type of relationships. But also some where those roles flip around. My most recent uBPDex had some long-term friends who seemed to be important to her, but these were people that I'd heard her (privately) WAY over-praise and rip to shreds over nothing and express extreme hostility or jealousy about, alternately."

I agree with MapleBob on this one.

I guess the definer is: What is friendship?

For me, it's trust, loyalty, honesty and mutual care.

I have friendships of 50, 30 years and also more recent ones. I am a recovering co-dependent. Some of my friends are not co-dependent and none are PD. In long-term friendships we have helped each other during emotional, financial, career and bereavement crises. And we've also shared lots of laughs. It's a two way thing. I have sometimes been irritated with them and they have sometimes been irritated with me. But that's life. Our bond of friendship, shared experiences, care for each other, outweighs minor irritations.

My exBPD has a group of superficial friends - most of whom have a bias to narcissism. I have read that narcissism and BPD can function well together on a shallow level.

He has two long term friends who he rarely sees. I've never met them so can't comment on them, or the quality of their friendship.

He didn't make negative comments about the long-term friends, he seemed to idealise them, perhaps this because the week-to-week close interactions were not present and not requiring much commitment of him. Although he is loyal to them.

His friendships with the narcissistic group are different. They appear to serve a necessary purpose of mutual reinforcement for each other and he's only known them for a few years. And on a superficial level they do meet each others' needs although he did make negative comments about them behind their backs. I've also seen the role flipping.

So, from my perspective, my ex did not have the capacity to maintain friendships according to my definition of what friendship is. But that's only my definition.  :)

This is what I've noticed about my exBPDbf's past friendships. More than the quantity or quality, the striking thing was how he behaved within those relationships (or what I could deduce from the things he and others told me).

His marriage was his longest relationship at 20 years, but as my psychologist says, the longevity is no indication of what the relationship was actually like. Other than that, his relationships were always pretty brief (I was his second longest at 18 months). He has a lot of longstanding friendships in the form of Facebook friends (mostly ex colleagues) but I know he never socialised with them, apart from one or two who he might see once every couple of years. From his description of the closer friendships he formed, it appeared to be very much in terms of becoming totally involved with those people almost to the point of trying to become those people. When he was friends with my ex husband, he appeared to change his identity to become more like him (until the big devaluation came). He seemed to want to become me and take on my characteristics, interests and knowledge. He told me himself that he was like a chameleon, a different character depending on who he is with. And at the end, the big red flag that he was interested in someone else came when he abruptly switched his political beliefs. It felt like he was becoming someone else, and my instincts said he was taking on the characteristics of the potential new partner he was grooming. He is, I believe, now mirroring his personal trainer who he is now working for. I think this will all be about becoming that other person, trying to walk in his shoes, until he inevitably gets devalued and my ex will be on to the next person he needs to fulfil him.

In a moment of what I can only deduce to be pure projection during a devaluation, he once said to me "you have to be the central part of everyone's lives, don't you. Even if you make a friend, you have to be the most important person to them, the person they think about most". Which is a really odd thing to say considering I'm on the extreme end of the introvert scale, would really prefer to be a recluse with my dog and maybe a partner, and tend to keep friends at a certain distance (one or two excepted). As my parents and partner said when I told them "that's pretty much the opposite of who you are".

His most permanent relationships were, of course, with his family, and they told me they tried to keep him at arms length because they'd all be hurt by his splitting behaviour. These are the people who sort of have to stick around, aren't they. But people who aren't tied to him and can leave, invariably seem to go out of fashion with him and disappear into the Facebook ether.

I don't want to take out my paintbrush and paint every BPD with big broad strokes, however I can say that my ex wife's had friends everywhere! She seemed amazing at staying in touch, or at least re-connecting with old friends/acquaintances from years past.

Her core group of friends all were from her home state, mostly high school friends but a LOT of girly girlfriends too who she seemed to contact on a regular basis.

Now I feel these were deep friendships but my best mate who met up with her for a dinner when he was there for business mentioned she and him talked about her friends and he got the opinion that they were not 'true' friends the way my core group of friends is.

So maybe she is just very superficial to them, I'm truly not sure but I think she sees them all on a regular basis, they go out for dinners ect, but I do remember when she was starting to replace me and talked about all the stress and PTSD she was going through, she mentioned "I can't even see my friends because they always ask me how I am. I'm seeing a whole new group of friends now"

Maybe when she is really dysregulated,  she cuts off ties to these friends so they don't see her darker side. The one that cheats/lies/manipulates.

When the dust settles, she is back to smiles, telling her latest victim story, garnering their sympathy and support because they are none the wiser.

As with a lot of things, getting to the bottom of this will never happen, more mysteries wrapped in enigmas... .

"Maybe when she is really dysregulated,  she cuts off ties to these friends so they don't see her darker side."

An interesting point Ahoy.

My ex refers to his group of narcissistic friends as his family. Although when I asked him about the background of one or two he said he didn't know. So I guess their friendship isn't that deep.

He takes frequent trips overseas on his own, two weeks to two months. I've often wondered if this is to recuperate from the strain of mirroring. I imagine it takes much energy to present the mask, especially so  when he is dysregulating. He is high functioning quiet-type BPD so doesn't have the release of acting out.

I have a funny feeling that this is what happened to me. She disappeared when she was dysregulating. Now I'm wondering if she discarded me because of dysregulation and whether or not she'll come back when she's feeling better. It's been 3 months. From what I can gather, she's been a complete hermit that entire time. How long can dysregulation episodes last for? Is it like bipolar depression where it can last for up to 6 months? I have a strong feeling that I haven't heard the last from her.

Reading this tread reminds me of what my uBPD said often.  He said that others should tell us who we are.  That we cannot know who we are ourselves.  I always thought that was a little strange.  I do not want others defining who I am!  He needed me to encourage him, compliment him, and tell him why I loved him constantly.  It kind of all makes sense after reading your comments!

I've read that pwBPD tends to have multiple other issues, varying in severity. It's funny how you think you haven't heard the last from your ex because people are telling me the same. Granted, the last time I saw my ex was over a week and half ago, so I can't make an assessment about how "hermit" she is at the moment.

I do know that during the breakup process, she was pretty much spending time with a new housemate since she's hinted she's done with her current housemates as they are moving out soon this month.