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Last week BPDgf and I had a petty argument. I ended up sending her one last Skype message before going to bed that night, but then decided to leave and go back to my place as I wasn't comfortable sleeping next to her. The next day I was hoping she'd read my message but I didn't hear from her ever since.

What happened that day... .

We were out all day. Basically we went out shopping. She already assumed it was going to be a disaster. She told me she was anxious and that she is afraid she will be disappointed that she will not be able to find a lady suit in her size. I told her we can have a look around. We went to a couple of clothing stores in the area. We could not find anything in her size, unfortunately. So our bus trip back to her apartment wasn't so good. She had a little tantrum while on the bus, talking loudly and banging her fist on the arm of the chair 3x out of frustration telling me that she should have bought a man's suit that's altered because we went passed some tailors. She was annoyed I did not mention altering a man's suit while we were out and I apologised and told her I assumed she didn't want a man's suit. She was annoyed and told me it's too late to turn back. I gave her a cuddle and said not to worry and that we will find something for her another day.

While we got home we went straight into bed and she looked very sad. I asked if she wanted a cuddle, or something to drink etc. She said she didn't know. She got her laptop out and started ranting on her Facebook about the fashion industry, about how things are not her size normally and how incredibly upset and angry she feels. She got a few replies. A few girls recommended some stores to her. She checked online if they had her size which they did so she settled down a little.

Afterwards she wanted to go to the bottle shop to get some alcohol. She wanted to drink her pain away she told me. When we arrived home that is exactly what she did in the other room. Drink and play video games for 6+ hours straight. I left her alone and stayed in the bedroom doing my own thing on my own laptop.

At some point I felt neglected so around 12:30PM-ish I asked her when her game was going to finish because I wanted to watch something with her. She told me she could not give me a specific time until the game ended so I then left the room again. By the time it was around 1am she messaged me on Skype that she was done and then came back to the bedroom.

Things seemed pleasant and she mentioned there was a new season of a show we used to enjoy watching together. I told her to download it and she was hesitant. I asked her why? and she said it was because she wanted to continue the cartoon series we watched the other night. I told her we could still download the new episodes of the new season. She basically wanted me to type it myself and download it myself, but she eventually took control of the laptop and fixed it up for me. Afterwards, she chose to argue with me that we should watch the cartoon first. Because I felt like the whole day felt like it was dedicated to her, I wanted to do something first. We argued again so I was just playful about it and gave her a handshake saying that if we watch her show first then she promises to watch my show next and not fall asleep on me. We eventually came to an agreement. However she told me that if she's right about this season not being that good then she will blame me for downloading it.

Once her show was over. She continued to say negative things about the show we used to like together. I just felt really sad because she used to enjoy it and I felt disconnected with her. There's a YouTube channel we watch straight after the show she used to like which was kinda funny but instad she turned her back and was ready for bed.

She didn't say goodnight so I knew she was in a mood... and I started getting moody myself. Eventually I started talking about how I felt waiting for her and she basically tod me to sh*t up and f*ck off and that she was trying to sleep. She also mentioned that "history is going to repeat itself", as in, I was being inconsiderate about her sleep and I will go crazy or something. She assumed i was going to keep her up for the rest of the night which isn't what I indended to do. I moved over to the couch with my phone, trying to calm myself down. I told myself I could deal with this, typed up a message on Skype she could read tomorrow morning and then went straight back to the bedroom

I cuddled up with her, trying to forget what just happened and asked her if will be alright and she yelled NO EVERYTHING IS NOT OK. She started saying harsh things like i coerced her to watch my movie first which was pretty extreme of her to say. I couldn't sleep with her, I felt so unloved and uncared for, I suppose I was emotional myself and I told her to speak to me nicely next time. I told her I'll keep in mind she'd prefer to talk in the morning and I think she laughed after that, I couldn't tell because her back was turn but it made me want to pack my stuff, I was really upset so I did and left to sleep back at my own place. (we don't live together).

She didn't reach out to me/reply to my Skype message ever since and it's bee 6 days so far so I can't tell if we are over and she painted me black or just wanting me to reach out. It feels like the silent treatment. This is what I wrote to her on Skype:

"Last wednesday night watching - was great. I enjoyed myself. Even today during the day was nice. Supporting you while you wrapped your arms around me and kissed me in the rain. It made me feel more secure and important to you so thank you. Then we had (well I had) lunch and you waited for me to finish. you already had lunch and thank you for waiting for me then. Yes our past was rocky and I can't say we will never have problems or any kind of argument anymore but I do think things are not exactly as they used to be. We arent threatening each other anymore with break ups so far so thats good just because we want to watch or do different things.

There are things I care about and there are things you care about and I try my best to cater for your needs while balancing my needs and making sure I am satisfied too. I'm sad when you mentioned history is repeating itself. If theres anything you need to know is that I promised to give it my all, my 100% to you and choose not to leave you just because of a quarrel because I know we can get better at this in time. It just takes a conscious effort atm yknow? I tried to be patient all day. You were upset about your suit which took you some time to calm yourself and then I waited until you finished -and you couldn't give me a time frame for when you'd finish. I just wanted to spend time with you tbh and it was getting late.

If you hadn't noticed, being together and watching something is what makes me happy and that im still connected to you. Coercion is a strong word and im sorry you felt that way about me wanting to watching faking it with you. That even if youre distracted with other things, when you spend time with me afterwards, I hope its because you really want to if that makes sense. I want you to feel free and comfortable to do what you enjoy but I didnt want to be forgotten either. It was by the time you finished and I should know better that you arent your best self at this hour of the night, more moody and frustrated more short tempered than usual. I also know you cant simultaneously chat on skype while playing your game without it bothering you a bit which fine because its your own me time.

I should sleep too but I didnt want to repress how you taking a long time with a video game made me feel. I'm sad and I think you should allow me to express those feelings tbh. I know not to keep you up for too long. Have faith that I will not  keep you up for too long like last time and not expect the worst because it doesnt help make things better for us. I just felt you were distant and not really engaged and that upset me quite a bit. Its not your fault you didnt enjoy it that much but I felt like you were devaluing what i was enjoying and that its ofc sad to me and we probably wont be able to share that show together anymore. We used to have fun with it. It was something I thought you liked talking about with me... at least in the past. Sucks to hear tbh but its fine if you really dont like it anymore ill get over that.

Tonight ended in a mess and I wished we could have talked through this and made peace before going to bed. I wish the care we have and show each other will remain more consistent and clearer in time. I need to feel safer when telling you how I feel. I'm afraid you are going to devalue me and are rethinking things tbh. Like saying itll repeat like last time to me is asking for a self fulfillng prophecy to come true and it doesnt have to be the same sh** we have to deal with all the time. We can progress, move forward.

I heard that with BPD relationships duration gets shorter and shorter after the initial break up because of getting too close and or just poking too much on others flaws until accusations and fights occur. I.might be wrong but im keeping in mind how youre feeling and how you see me. I hope this is not the case because I felt.a bit bullied today tbh. My point is I hope you wont end up pushing me away. Whats stopping us is fear and insecurities youre right. I want things to last and is why I thought we need therapy too. Id rather you really agree thats what we need so im leaving that up to you. I can pick a therapist but you need to want to go too.  At least if our communication gets rusty thats the kind of stuff id want talk about in therapy. Thats important for us imo. I still think youre worth being with. I love you dearly. Even if its sometimes challenging this is also a rewarding relationship to me. I will never give up on us as long as you dont either. Weve been through a lot and we really need to nurture our relationship. We can still have stability I think as long as we try and are committed to it. I'll get back in bed."

There's nothing I could do but wait now. But for how long? Is this usually a sign that it's over? I will focus on myself. It hurts to not hear from her but I'll try to use this time to dettach more in case I never hear from her.

Can anyone relate to not knowing whether it's just silent treatment or if it's completely over?

She's used to me chasing her, and right now I'm just practising self control and patience that she will get back to me.

It's a shame it had to end over something like this.

I have a feeling I didn't manage myself well with the message I wrote but what's done is done.

Should I reach out to her at some point and ask her if things are over?

Or is there no need?

Any advice much appreciated.

From my point-of-view, it focuses much on you and not so much her feelings. She's a raw emotional wound. But you're right, what's done is done.

Do you see her behaviors as being triggered by shame (I.e., "I'm a bad person"?

I have no idea. It could be shame. Basically I don't chase after her anymore. She's been testing boundaries and now she's done this now that I am putting up boundaries and sticking up for myself that her behaviour is unacceptable. So telling her is what she does is unacceptable, I do not feel safe and loved and the we should get therapy to better our relationship probably makes her feel flawed/ a bad person? That I am blaming everything on her? Or that she just doesn't want to deal with being in the wrong and I'm no longer entertaining her. Like it truly felt like she was trying to pick a fight.

Last time during our first break up I told her to get therapy she responded in anger and told me that she cured her BPD a long time ago and that it was I who was splitting and need to get assessed and be helped. She did not respond to my Skype message so I am assuming her anger has turned inwards? that's what silent treatment is right? anger in? Or perhaps I am not useful to her anymore or something? She's obsessed with only feeling good all of the time and one issue and it's over. That it's better to cut me off than to feel accountable and feel liek crap about what she does. She might think I'm insane for sticking up for myself?

I really don't know if she just cut me off for good or it's just the silent treatment that will go on for a couple more days, weeks until she cools off. She seems to be doing fine on the surface, being very busy on her social media. I just feel discarded and that she compeltely forgot about me. I'll try not to take it to heart that she threw our relationship away again for some petty stuff. I can't expect her to do anything healthy, especially that she is not in therapy and not reeally trying to better herself. It's nearly a week I haven't heard back. I have no idea if we are over or what.

hi Curiously1

i agree that whats done is done, but there is always something to learn. regardless of whats done, in order to stabilize the relationship and effect the best outcome, the dynamics of the relationship may need some changing. as the emotionally stronger partner, that changing is more than likely going to need to be effected by you. what stands out to me is that you mention that for her, "one issue and its over". it sounds like there is frequently an issue. sometimes battles can be picked, and there may be other ways to vent your frustrations - she may be unable or unwilling to soothe them.

its hard to say what might be called for with regard to contact, though i dont see waiting six days and then reaching out as chasing. the question to me is what you want to do here. not reaching out at all is certainly changing the dynamic - would it be changing it for the better?


no - that is a common expression about depression, "depression is anger turned inward" that i personally dont always agree with. i would describe this situation as "neither of us are currently speaking".

PS. have you had an opportunity to read What Does it Take to Be in a Relationship   (https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship)

Once removed,

My only concern is that her not replying to my Skype message for a week meant that she is angry with me or is no longer interested in making up and that I am painted black. I certainly have my own fear of rejection and I'm afraid to add to my pain by reaching out.

Based on that article, yes it would be up to me to be more assertive about it and to ask her where things are going... Like what could I say?

I get confused about when it is appropriate/warranted to reach out and when it is not.

I am just afraid that this is some power-play or her wanting to cut me off. I will never know the answer unless I wait much much longer and hear nothing from her or if I just ask. How do I weigh up what the wisest action to take after what has happened?

I do agree though that we should pick our battles and to be honest, I didn't pick my battles wisely this time round.

I should have shrugged this one off and went to bed.

I find that I cannot always vent to her and probably should have vented to someone else. Should remember that there are things she cannot do for me and it was a matter of how I reacted to everything...

I also don't want to encourage frequent silent treatment if this is what is truly happening... .

She is also leaving for work next week for 2 weeks. If I don't reach out soon and if things aren't as bad as I think they are between us then I miss the chance to see her before she goes.

these are all valid concerns Curiously1, and should factor into whatever decision you make.

personally, i think i might reach out, with a very light approach. not asking her the status of your relationship, or where things are going. id avoid, at least for now, any discussion of feelings, the arguments, rehashing stuff in general.

how might you go about this? a simple "hey" or "hi" could work just fine, but youll want to consider where youll want to direct the conversation if she replies "hey" or "hi" back. personalize it: what might it look like?

Hi I can certainly identify with all the prickly little dynamics going on there between you two , talk about 'egg-shells'  !   That massive 'child' ego, oblivious to your feelings. As to your question regarding her painting you black and not contacting you for 6 days while you stew over everything ,  who knows? there are no two the same , she may be getting on with things in her own life without much thought for how you are dealing with this.  I am being put through a very similar case, and have waited for exactly a week now and have had no communication from my diagnosed BPD  S.O.  whom I have known for nearly 9 years.  For me, this is the first time I have not been tempted to 'chase' after her, which she will have been expecting, so a change of direction here.  This is going from up to 100 texts a day when things are going ok, to zero for a week.   

I totally understand some of what you are going through,  and also identify with the feeling of is this the end ? over something silly... .that is the usual pattern though, it is often something minor which gets escalated by frustration on both sides till there is an outburst of some kind.  In my case , she can go long periods without contacting me, it is always me who gives in first !  even when it is 99% fault caused by her bad behaviour and my bad reaction,  I usually apologise (when none is due) while she sits on her throne.  Not this time , I am making a real effort not to let her hold my life in her hands any more, and am getting on with other things and seeing other people... .it is so important to take care of yourself.

Do some other things that you enjoy, get on with your life , go out with some other normal people , I'm sure she will reach out to you sooner or later, and you will be a bit stronger as well. Let her know she is not in control of your life.

Good luck   

Ah we seem to be in a very similar situation, yes. This is pretty tough stuff to deal with, everyday just trying refocus on myself and like not take it personally. I have a feeling she will come back though but I will never know when of course. That will always be a surprise.

I thought about what action I should take a lot today. In my case perhaps I shouldn't reach out to her this time. Sure we had a petty fight and I should have picked my battles more wisely but if this didn't happen sooner, then I wouldn't have learnt that lesson for myself  lol

I really do desperately want to change the dynamic for the better but what I fear is that whatever I do now it's too late anyway or at least take a while. Like, for us right, our BPD significant others are already so used to us reaching out via sending so many texts, calling a lot etc. My guess is that they are just soo comfortable with not having us around until they want to see us and take advantage of that time apart since we are safe pickings anyway and possibly feel so in control/in power with what they are doing to us.

It's good that we aren't reaching out and chasing anymore though. We choose not to and that's for ourselves certainly an improvement from what we used to do. I feel as though I'm practising my own patience and trying to learn to cope on my own and work on my own insecurities of her inactions because for me in some ways I did rely or wanted to rely on my BPDgf to make me feel better/validate/soothe me too in a way a much much healthier person would be capable of (I had unrealistic expectations on what she is able to do for me during stressful times).

But I feel as though yeah, the BPDs in our lives are so used to the opposite and us chasing, even if we do something new, I'm sure some part of them already knows our nature, that were good to them and will be there for them and apologise each time so can control us more and believe they can put us on hold knowing that is what we're like. I'm saying that because I just feel so underappreciated you know? But yes I won't try to guess too much on why she is doing this. She has called me 'safe' in the past and that's what she liked about me so I am just making guesses off that.

You're right though, I should just enjoy my time not seeing her and perhaps consider during this time whether dealing with this all over again is worth it. I still love and care about her in a way that I wish she gets therapy.

This just cannot go on without her at least trying to change in some way. I've tried to change and based on the article Once Removed shared what really stands out for me is hoping that only changing myself would drastically improve our relationship as a whole and I was wrong to think that could happen. I should be realistic about my expectations and her capabilities and truly accept what she's like now - especially that she is not in therapy. Right now I don't think I could, not if she at least tries therapy or else I have no idea what else I could possibly do to make our relationship better. I am lacking the motivation and acceptance of so much bad behaviour. It's been quite a while since I've enjoyed spending time with her anyway. At least I am beginning to not personalise her actions anymore or that it has anything tied with my self worth. Plenty to do with her and how she feels about herself and how she copes. That I can decide/control how I react to her bad behaviour and not personalise what she says because of what she is dealing with.

I am starting to dettach for sure, and as long as she is away, it's going to make it easier for me I think after some more days has past to just get on with my own life.

Do you know what you want to do with your significant other if they return?

Hi all

I reached out, talked about something that wasn't about the relationship at first and things were fine.

But I did eventually ask the question "Are we still together", and she said no.

She told me that what we had is dysfunctional and that clearly I did not change since last we broke up.

I asked her some questions about what she isn't happy with about me and what she thinks I could improve on and she told me that me talking about problems before bed is a dealbreaker and I should know it by now and that it bothered her the day after. That's all she could come up with.

I accepted it, told her I understood it and that's that. I said I wish we communicated better but she is still blaming me of course.

She said she'll consider me in future, like in years time but she is unsure because doesn't trust me and isn't sure I will ever change my ways and doesn't ever want to put up with being kept up at night ever again. I'm not surprised she made me sound like I always did that to her and that I was horrible to her. I was only talking about it briefly and wasn't going to keep her up... Anyway she told me we can remain in contact and catch up occassionally.

I don't really have a desire to reach out anymore and talk about daily stuff with her and we tried the friendship thing before and I didn't enjoy it. She wasn't a good friend last time and there's nothing else to talk about.

She blamed it all on me again, she doesn't want to change and there's really nothing left to do. She can keep believing I am crazy and perhaps that is what will keep her away from me. Believing she is right.

Surprisingly, I feel free now. This was my first relationship and I just couldn't let go, even though I knew she wasn't exactly good for me. I at least have the opportunity now to do better for myself and meet someone who is truly good for me and will treat me with love and respect.

I think you have touched on an interesting subject there (friendship with a BPD)  I have often wondered whether it is possible to have a real friendship in the full sense , with someone who has BPD ?  largely because there are so many obstacles, namely all of the characteristics which define BPD for a start are all at odds with maintaining a healthy friendship , let alone an adult relationship.  I have stood by my BPD S.O for nearly nine years, and have been subjected to a catalogue of the most unbelieveable treatment , year after year, which smoothed out in recent time only to resume again.  Many of the things she has done to me are experiences other (normal) people can't even imagine , when I tell other close friends just some of the things she has done to me, they are astounded.

One friend told me recently, 'she has ___ed your life for the last five years'  that was as a casual observer who didn't know about half of the things I have endured from her.

I often wonder what will become of her over the years as she gets older (she is 34 now)  I think whatever her future may be,  it will not end well , I think she may well end up a lonely old derelict. Who knows?

We have had some special times together, and I have some deep feelings for her, but I have to keep things in perspective now , as hard as it is not to feel sentimental about her, as I have to balance the attrocious hurt she dishes out to me so effortlessly,  I need to take care of my own feelings now in order to survive, I am certainly not going to let her drag me down any more.

We didn't have much in common to be honest so friendship wouldn't be of much benefit for either of us. I mean some people are friends with their BPD exes I think? But most not. The friendship would have been pretty shallow anyway like last time and based on her needs, just like what it was when were in a relationship. Only what she wants to do. My friends are also astounded by the way I describe how my ex treats me and everyone really wanted me to leave her telling me she's horrible, abusive and hypocritical etc. They are always shocked and confused by her ways. Telling me she will be forever miserable and that I'm too young to waste my time with her and that she won't get better. Yeah don't let her drag you down. I find that I am not taking anything my BPD ex said about me personally anymore. I've recognised she's been projecting so much of her stuff onto me lately she really needs help to see that. The last time we got together I really did try, I made conscious decisions to change certain stuff I knew I was doing to make things worse but yeah whatever I do, hold back, tell her I am uncomfortable with whatever she is doing, it just didn't work out for us. Anything I do is unforgivable and I  must be punished... She would rather start afresh and is determined to find the right person for her rather than work things out. I really do wish her the best and that she does find happiness one day.

I don't know how she could ever do that without therapy but that's what I wish she could truly be happy one day too.

Would you be friends with your BPD S.O? Why/Why not?

just think like a 6yo ... .if she is happy with the toy she got now, it will last until she wants some more attention from another source, maybe let's say "you" next time.

You would think that after everything she has ever called me and all the unforgivable things I have done in her eyes and that she has no trust "I will change my ways" during our first break up she wouldn't ever consider getting back together but she did.

I have no idea if she would ever come back for another round anytime soon. This time, she has a friend who's she's become more emotionally closer too while we were apart and could probably survive with until she finds her new toy. She said almost exactly what she did last time. That it was all my fault and I haven't changed since lsat time, that change won't happen overnight and that it would probably take a few years before she's satisfied with the changes I should make of myself or something so there's no use to get back a third time. She kept saying "history is going to repeat itself", and like she kept telling herself, it happened. She wanted an exit, she was splitting and she just couldn't help it I think so I get it now that recycles usually get shorter and shorter... especially if they aren't getting help to see why etc.

if I ever hear from her again I think I'd be shocked to be honest. There's truly nothing left for us to rekindle. I am convinced things are really done between us this time in her mind. I could be wrong but it certainly feels like she's got no more interest in me, turned off  and won't for a loong long time to never since  I kept mentioning therapy  lol  I think that's the bottom line. I kept mentioning that's what we needed to move forward. I should be painted the blackest of black for suggesting she faces her own problems. And that's fine by me.

I do not know about your case, but if I understand the BPD correct, none of that what you said have little to say. They tend to live in the moment and easily forget past problems. She could easily come back because "the sun is shining" or something else nonsense reason. It will be a matter of time before she has messed up her current "rs" and she may have a backup in hand. Anyway they usually very often reconnect old partners, since they are inclined (prepared), they cannot be with "anybody" , only a certain class of people anyway.

I do sense that she has a backup in hand or that her friend is enough to get her by. Like she has some narc traits so from how I see it its like she has a good source of narc supply (her friend) who is obsessed with her and stuff. She doesn't want her as a girlfriend but it doesn't mean she can't use her casually until she finds the right girl again. The friend was the replacement she left me for but then they didn't work out because she couldnt handle the friends depression and suicidal stuff. Like she said, she believes she can love again after me and find the right girl again and now that she has a friend around she's entertained with, that's probably enough to get her by her loneliness. We'll see but you're right, they could easily forget past problems. Just saying that me mentioning therapy is probably something huge that will make me a last resort thing no matter how much she used to feel about me.

I just want you to know I see what you are going through. All this aside, this board is lovely. I am concerned though on the constant you have to be the better one. Yes true for those of us who have been through that, we do always try to talk it out, understand the others point of view, have empathy, work around it.

Concerning the advice from many of the same ones on one thread, ignore, next thread implying you have to try harder. I was warned of that when coming here.

I am a little concerned with the implication that all was about your feelings and not hers, I am not sure they really saw how much you tried to make the day about her. So much about her to always have your feelings pushed to the side. Then implied you need to learn a lesson about ummm well. Seems yes many of us had lessons to learn, what not to put up with, to make our feelings and health important etc. But no please don't take that to heart. Yes learn what you can. The only person we can be better then yesterday is ourselves. We can't change another, need to see their side, help them, not do triggers. All that aside most of us have done that for years or the whole relationship or wouldn't be here... .LOL

I think you have tried, in so many ways to be accommodating, fun, full of empathy and concern. None of that matters now if didn't work out for that relationship. It does matter to show you are a loving, kind person who deserves the same back. Now maybe you will get that. Keep your head high, your heels high and your standards even higher.

Mine said the same, seems you are the type that learned no sense going to bed mad. Lets talk and resolve it real quick tomorrow is another day. They seem of the type, your talk kept me up, you are not worth it, I want to stay mad tomorrow, and you figure out why. Mine no matter how many small heart to hearts of friendship, needs, good things, plans, where we were at financially ( in a good way, kept us debt free and good investment plans for future) they were always lectures in his mind.

Go forward, find the joy in today. Do something kind for yourself and anonymously for another and see the love and joy come back to you. You are worthy, you are a good person and did try.

There are so many good books, resources out there, figure out on your journey why you feel the need to always put her first. I had to it is enlightening. Then hopefully you will be ready for a partner who is also willing to meet you half way. It might be an illness but still hurts and we can't fix it nor are responsible. I need to remember this my self. Don't take some of the mixed messages from her or here to heart. You are worthy, and more so should not be on eggshells.

Lilyroze, this is the 'saving' board. There are guidelines as to what kind of discussions we can have on this board https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=286543.0   If Curiously had posted on the 'detaching' board, for instance, I would be free to say 'RUN, RUN'! :) Because in my head the mere fact that you had to ask, Curiously, 'are we still together', would for me have been it. Interesting point from the lessons:

" Silence a.k.a. Withholding is the most damaging and hurtful form of verbal abuse. One might think that in order for the behavior to be considered verbal abusive words need to be spoken. This misunderstanding of verbal abuse adds to the recipient’s confusion within the relationship. The recipient of silence/withholding may believe the relationship is functional because the abuser may communicate functional information, but refuses—through silence/ withholding (non-responsive)—to communicate on an intimate level.

There needs to be more than an exchange of information. Healthy relationships require intimacy. Intimacy requires empathy. To hear and be heard and to understand another’s feelings and experiences is empathetic comprehension.

Simply stated, silence/withholding is a choice to keep virtually all one’s thoughts, feelings, hopes and dreams to oneself and to remain silent and aloof toward another, to reveal as little as possible, and to maintain an attitude of cool indifference, control and Power Over."

Leaving you to stew in uncertainty for almost a week doesn't sound like love to me, quite the opposite. It sounds like you were being punished for setting boundaries and communicating about your needs.  Still, at the end of the day, I think the focus on self is  just common sense, though. We can't change others, we can only change the way we relate to them. Indeed, it is not fair. It is what it is. We all have our weak moments, while being in relationship with BPD requires huge resources of strength. I am so glad that you have decided you deserve better from life! But shouldn't be saying so on this board.  , khib.

All that aside, she posted her update and I addressed that. Simple. I felt no need to see a hurting persons update not addressed due to the board it was on. Either way have a good day and be blessed.

Yes we totally agree about silent treatment, trust me it is hurtful.

my exBPD does have a point that we should speak about it in the morning. I should have kept in mind by now based on the fact that this isn't the first time she has shown me she is unwilling or unable to consider my feelings just before bed time. It's not that I didn't have a clue she would do this again but that I can be a stubborn person too and I REALLY felt the need to talk because I supressed so much of my frustrations that entire day, just being patient, to try be emotionally stronger and all that stuff. It felt like I was a ticking time bomb, except that I don't explode the way she does. Reflecting what happened during the day generally comes at night for me and the stress was coming out and needed to talk. Perhaps it was a clash of our set of beliefs/values, something like that. But really what were her values? To me it felt like all she ever did was avoid unwanted feelings like shame and that she could possibly affect others and just simply dictate what is right and wrong based on that, her current emotions.

I always believed it was better to get problems out the way before bed but I shouldn't have that thought that should ALWAYS be the case In some ways I can see how I wanted it just my way too but all I thought at the time was hey let's squeeze in putting myself FIRST for once so I feel like I am still being me in this relationship.

Either way I needed more of a partner who showed just as much concern for me. Not a dictator who withholds affection because I am so inconvenient when I show any signs of weakness and that I need to wait for them to come back and never know when. It's sad to know that if I didn't reach out I would have never heard back from her, and for this?

Yes I had a weak moment, and I may have had weak momens again and again and if she did not end it now I would have been punished like that again and again. I truly did not feel that what I had asked of her was difficult. To just take a few minutes of her time to just hear me out. Event though I explained myself to her that I want peace, I got a lecture that my way is no way and that my behaviour is unappaceptable and bad and kept saying it should have been discussed in the morning because I affected her so much. Oh yeah her words were that I am really do a good job at depriving her of sleep. Even though I shouldn't have taken it personally, it made sense that I did. We just got back together and I was also grieving the things that I was put through last time PLUS the stresses of that very day and I knew that in order to stay I had to accept her entirely for who she is and what she brings, the good and the bad. here was not going to be empathy, no understanding about my needs at a level that I wanted her to be.

I don't have all the tools, all the solutions but I did learn that no matter what I did I could not control the outcome of things or a real improvement in somebody elses behaviour by just accomodating them each time and compromising or setting myself aside too much. And yeah when I do set boundaries about my needs, and it feels grea to do but THIS is what happens. I lose her.

I wanted to communicate to hear how we could have worked it out together but it was to her it is forever the wrong time to do so and to her anything to do with being vulnerable like that came across as me not changing, having too many problems, becoming a 'schiz' again,  and she could no longer deal with that. Her own fear was that I was acting hot and cold again when really she was projecting what she was feeling about me. It was really her that was already having second thoughts about us and she couldn't help it. It's why she goes oh no history will repeat itself. All she wants is pleasant emotions all of the time everyday and she stresses this and I tried. She keeps telling me I NEED positive interactions and like she had that ALL day. I don't need to put up with it anymore. She told me she would have put up with arguments/fights during the day but that THIS was the dealbreaker for her and that what I did was wrong. The dealbreaker for me was that she wasn't in therapy and this was taking a toll on my mental health and I stressed that we needed to seek help to move forward.

She said that I need to find someone with a high tolerance for a person like myself and although she was implying that I was too flawed and inconvenient and not worth the effort for her what she couldn't do was forgive me and give me a few minutes to talk before bed. What I'll take from that is that my life shouldn't have been reduced to being somebody's emotional punching bag.

There's so much to learn from this experience yes. I have been thinking about all of that. Why I put myself through this.

... .and any answers yet, Curiously?

No I reached out and she said that we are no longer together. Her reason is that talking before bed is a dealbreaker, she was affected during the day, it had overflow effects which made her very grumpy and because of it and she does not trust I will not do it again and will not want to experience hearing my problems before bed ever again. She said she does not expect I'll change my "bad old ways" overnight or in a few years time  lol She told me to go socialise, to move on now and that she probably won't take me back but she is not exactly sure but for me to just move on. She also said she feels too guilty to cut me off and for breaking up a second time and said I could remain in contact and talk to her occasionally if I want to but I chose not to and blocked and removed her. She could never make a good friend. Been there done that.

If you follow my story, you'll find that a few days after she was looking for a replacement on her social media and attention. Blocked her on there since I don't want to know more of that. The whole post she wrote about hypothetically if someone would be willing to live with her/date her if she paid them $500 weekly or monthly I forget they will be provided free lunch and dinners. Basically she wants full control of someone. She doesn't want a REAL girlfriend it seems,she wants a pet/slave who will follow through with what she wants to do all the time. She does not care about peoples wants/needs except her own and who she can control at least financially... based on that post and probably so she can discard them whenever she wants to.

My T was right. She does show some narc traits too. She did not appreciate me at all it seems. It makes sense. She couldn't boss me around, I countered her too much so she had to let me go. I never backed down from her and that made her feel crappy about herself. She needs someone to put down. She would rather pay for love than to work on making our relationship better.She KNEW that the only way our relationship was going to move forward and be good was for us to seek help but instead she gave me the ST since it's way easierfor her to just drop me. Makes me feel like her love was fake too. Her actions help me dettach because I can really see how her actions are beyond normal/healthy or loving... I'm happy to say that I really don't love her anymore, in fact I don't even like her as a person anymore. She is not a good person based on all of this and all she's ever done to me and to others. I believe what everybody is saying now that she is horrible and will never be happy. Somewhere deep down I knew but I was attached. It's like, the moment she really knew I loved her, and saw I gave up so much for her the nastier she became. When she was uncertain the nicer she was I guess. Looks like it would have never lasted based on who she is.

I forget if I already mentioned this. She said "Go find someone with a higher tolerance for you". Yeah those were her words.

The push part of the push/pull starts with a need that cannot be met, and then turns to devaluation. You want to be close, and for one reason or another, cannot. It hurts.

Then devaluing begins. This provides some relief that it was them and not us. We feel better.

A person with BPD does this because her relationship skills are terrible. We do this because ____________.  

Can you see this?

Like she put it, 'when it's good it's really great'. I won't deny she was great to be with when we weren't in any kind of disagreement.

She's been dolling out a lot verbal abuse and I always refused it and told I'd prefer it if she spoke nicely. Ended up being seen as the punitive parent again possibly.

Unfortunately this makes her feel badly, angry and we are always at war.

I started to learn about learning to pick battles etc. I always challenged/argued with her in the past unfortunately.

I have tried to keep more quiet, be more patient with her that day and I suppress and suppress until i could not take it anymore and told her how she affected me by briefly speaking about it but it was another reason for her to reflect (which she cannot do) so she has to blame me.

Instead she chose to ignore me, then say it was a deal breaker for just speaking to her.

There has been too much resentment, fights and her dread that history is going to repeat itself and I will turn "schiz", insane again (her projection? splitting?) in the past for it to work out in her mind. They say recycles are usually shorter... .

I can see how she sees its too broken to fix and would rather drop everything.

She felt I have "destroyed" her in the past so it makes sense the closer she gets to real intimacy, the harder it gets or I just bring out the worst in her or her worst emotions and fears.

She does have very terrible relationship skills. I can't fix that.

We do this because we are coping differently and are needs aren't being met either? We want intimacy in our relationships? I want her to be more open/vulnerable but she isn't able to. There's just a point where she can't seem to reach.

We devalue when we get frustrated that someone can't do what we can do or has treated us so badly it isn't worth it anymore? I might not be following.

BPDs often struggle with no boundaries and our own are weak. This is pretty common.

An example: they ask us to take care of all the finances. Budgeting, saving, investing. They entrust us with this duty. They want us to take care of our shared financial wellness. We feel equipped to do this. It makes us feel good.

Then, they come to us for money. First they ask for $1000, then $5000, then $10,000. We don't have this kind of money. We keep giving it to them (makes them happy, avoids a fight). Next thing, we're broke.

In your BPD relationship, she needs you to have boundaries because she doesn't (likely) have any.

We accept that we are guardians of boundaries. This keeps our relationship account full.

It's a slightly different dynamic than regular relationships. We have to assume more responsibility. Remember that she struggles with impulsivity, anxiety, and an unstable sense of self. That's why she depends on you to be the emotional leader.

She probably felt the behavior was needy, the note was needy. You were giving her too much of the shared funds, so to speak, and she knows that's not viable for the relationship.

Curiously, I understand it hurts. It was hard to feel that your needs could not be met. And she seems to have totally devalued you now. Still. You chose to go back for a recycle. It made sense to you at the time and nobody is judging your choices. Only asking you to own them. Hope you heal soon! , Khib

I'm reading the 'Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist' book at the moment. It makes sense now. If I showed this side of me, she could not deal with it. I did it hoping she would at least try and put more effort into the relationship. It was seen as needy/weak which leads to more devaluing which leads to complete disinterest in the relationship. When she sees me like this, she automatically believes I am a dysfunctional person. The beginning of the recycle she changed her mind and convinced herself I am sane and have changed (based on our frequent positive interactions). I stayed the same but she sees it differently.

Being in a relationship with a PD is difficult. You have to take full responsibility and not expect anything at all from them. =/ That hurt me so much. My needs were always put on hold in favour of her needs. Reading the book now I realise I could have done some things differently like leave the room and really fulfill my own needs and not expect anything from her but still. At the time I was very sad and felt all alone, like I wanted MORE from her and it wasn't realistic to expect her to do what I felt I needed from her.

Yup, that's borderline for you. It's all about them. Indeed one has to learn a good ability to self-care because it is like asking an emotional three year old to meet your needs. Good that you are reading Curiously! How are you feeling now with a few day's reflection behind you? . khib

I'm feeling better. I reflected more about myself than her now and why I get into these relationships (both with friendships too). The need to be needed is what I need to work on. I'm so used to focusing on others to feel good and it's why it worked out pretty well at the beginning. But as soon as I had opened up about my own insecurities/worries, I could not expect to be taken care of in the same way. I was always hoping that every action I took would then lead to a change in her behaviour but it didn't. The bottom line is no amount of hope and love can change someone elses behaviour, they need to want to... and that I need to stop with the caretaking behaviour in order to feel worth being with. There are people who can reciprocate and she's just not one of them.

I'm glad to hear you are  feeling a bit better, C! You are a kind and sweet person who deserves to have her needs met. What do you do for self care? Are you being extra kind to yourself during these tough times?  , K