BPDFamily.com

I'll be married 12 years to my BPDw.  To say the least, it's been awful.  She matches just about all the traits.  She had a bad/abusive childhood, which came along with rape and the loss of her unborn baby.

I met her she was drinking quite a bit but other than that she was high functioning.  Finishing college, working full time, her own apartment, etc... We were best friends for about a year, then became a couple (her ex-bf at the time we were friend, didn't want anything to do with her).  Anyway, she graduated, moved in with me, got a job in her field and got married within' 6 months.  She pushed for it.

First year of marriage was the worst, he ex was trying to get her back and she was sneaking to meet up with him.  Her parents are divorced, her dad (who is a drama queen) was supporting her trying to get back with her ex.  That lasted about a year until either that fizzled out or she knew I wanted out of the marriage.  :)uring the next few years, I was met by verbal, emotional and physical abuse.  Even her close friends would tell me to leave her.  She would play the "I hate you, please don't leave me" game.

We then had a daughter together, to be honest when she told me she was pregnant, I asked her if it was mine.  I had to, though I felt awful about it.  As the next few weeks went by, I truly wanted a divorce.  It was because I didn't want my son/daughter to be raised and see how awful I was going to be treated.  Needless to say my wife did the FOG on me and I stayed.  :)uring the birth of our beautiful daughter (2008), my wife was internally bleeding and lost 80% of her blood.  Twelve hours after my daughter being born, they were telling me my wife would probably die.  By the grace of God, she was able to pull through and the first few months I was raising our daughter and taking care of my wife (she also had to have gall bladder removal surgery a short time later).  My daughter also had kidney issues as well, so it was a trying time...  I was exhausted but things actually felt good in terms of no abuse.

Four to five months after our daughter was born, her abuse came back.  Started when my wife was holding our daughter and couldn't get her to fall asleep.  Walking into the room you could feel the stress that was coming off my wife.  I took over and my daughter fell asleep within a minute.  My wife then got nose-to-nose with me and proceeded to tell me how awful of a father I am and how it would be better if I just killed myself.  I was at a loss for words for what she just said.

As the years went on, the physical abuse stopped, however the crazy behavior, the suicide threats, the verbal abuse/putdowns continue.  She almost daily threatens to leave, which makes my daughter who's 8 now, totally filled with anxiety.  She is afraid to even stay at her grandparents house because of 'mom leaving, and never coming back'.  It hurts so much to know that my daughter's childhood is being replaced with the awful behavior of my wife.

As many of you here, I could go on and write a novel about the insane, awful things my spouse has done.  What I want to know is, I know many of you love your BPD spouse, but are you 'in love' with them?

Is it possible to be in love with someone who abuses you?  :)o we hang on to the few good times we have with them and romanticize them to the point that they are bigger than what they really were?  

I told her the other week that I cannot spend the rest of my life being treated like this.  No sex, no affection, no hugs, not even a 'How was your day?'.  It's just simply they don't care.  At what point to you become tired of being part psychologist and making sure you always validate and always say the 'right thing' so you don't trigger them?  I think I'm at the point.

On a Friday or Saturday night, I go out (by myself) or with my buddy.  I have women come up to talk with me and you don't realize how NICE it is to actually have a conversation with a woman who is actually interested in what you have to say.  With my wife, I usually get ignored (and then tries to convince me, I never talked to her about something) or flat out tells me she's not interested in what I have to say and puts her nose back into her facebook.

I don't know if I'm in love with her anymore.  I mean, I love her and want to be in love with her, but how can I?  It's like trying to be in love with someone who wants to be your worst enemy most days.  My daughter has begged and pleaded with me to not divorce mom, when my wife triggers and says these things in front of her.  That's what I hate the most.  We split the tax returns and I gave her, her half a month earlier because she wanted an apartment so bad.  That's all she talked about.  The morning I put the money into her account, she came home that evening with a new puppy (in which she didn't even ask me).  It's like living in the twilight zone and I'm at my breaking point.

She told me if I divorce her, she will make it as difficult as possible, including custody with our daughter.  The psychologist she went to, told me if I were to divorce, my wife would probably kill herself.  Then part of me feels guilty in divorcing and leaving my daughter with the vicious wolf that my wife would have become through it.  It gets very depressing.  I just want to know how to stay in love with them.  Any ideas?

I don't have any ideas to help you because reading your story, I thought I wrote most of it myself. Other than the fact that I've been with my wife almost 20 years and have 2 kids. I think the fact that I traveled a lot for work for the last 13 years made it easier for me since I wasn't there to deal with her.  But in hindsight, I may have left 13 years ago had I been there every day. 

I have been trying to learn the answer to your question myself.  How do we stay in love with them?  I guess it's for every person to find their own answer to the question.  For me, it's mostly about the kids.  I know a divorce with her would be a living hell, worse than the current one I live in.  She already uses the kids against me to get her way so I would be looking at that times 1,000.  So I guess I stay out of fear. Sad but that's all I've come up with at this point.  I know that my kids need me more everyday and that she doesn't have to ability to deal with things on her own.  She's never hit them but the mental abuse can be worse I believe.  If I'm in the picture all the time, I can deflect it or absorb it for them.  They do see and hear some of the arguments.  Especially when she is really going, she doesn't care who can hear her. Of course she blames it on me saying if I hadn't made her so angry she wouldn't have to raise her voice and yell at me. 

So hear I am, still searching for an answer to yours and my question... .

Oh dear. I'm reading both of your stories and feel so much for you. I've had the suicide threats and the threats to be difficult with the children if there's divorce.

I've included a link. If you scroll down there are some tips on how to leave. In effect you need the BPD to leave by breaking their rules. I did this 2.5 years ago. Believe everything they say they will do. And multiply it by 10. Mine went bezerk. But if you prepare well, you can manage it.

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

But as messy as it is, I am glad I did it. The children will have one healthy parent at least.

Thanks Moselle.  I had read the article before but it does help to read things again.  The biggest fear I have is the kids.  In most states the mother gets custody.  She is very good in front of others.  High functioning without a job. 

Isn't that crazy?  I've gone out with a number of women since my wife left - all platonic dates - and remarked to friends and family how strange it is to have adult conversations with adult women after being married to someone for so long who, at the end, was sleeping with stuffed animals and obsessed with The Hunger Games.  It's trippy because my wife wasn't always as she is now, but you realize just how long she's been regressing when you get back out in the world one on one with age-appropriate women.


After my wife left, I told her that if I had left her the way she left me I believe she would have killed herself.  She didn't argue at all and in fact hinted that I was absolutely right.  What's scary/depressing is that she showed no empathy or even the slightest bit of concern for just how traumatic leaving our entire family behind and out of the blue truly was to me or us.


I was very much in love with my wife all the way to the end.  What my T and my friends and family and peers and even some of HER friends and family remind me of constantly, however, is of two things: 1) love is an action verb; you can't tell me you love me fifty times a day, only for me to say "I can't remember the last time you did something nice for me," and you not only not challenge that assertion, but not say "I will start trying."  And; 2)  Related to #1, our marriage was a completely one-way street at the end.  Given her illnesses, I didn't expect it to be 50/50, but it had been 100/0 for so long that I wound up hiring a housekeeper twice a week just to stop seeing dishes pile up everywhere around the house all the time, among a litany of other issues. 

I miss the woman I fell in love with.  I miss my fiancee.  I miss the wife of my youth.  What I have to accept is that she isn't any of those people.  She is this person, as is your wife.  It's an awful realization.  But, you deserve love too. 

It's such a heart wrenching decision. My heart goes out to you.

I would recommend to both of you to prepare. You don't have to pull the trigger. She may beat you to it and you definity don't want to be on the back foot with these people.

1. A settlement agreement and parenting plan, finalised and ready.

2. Finance - cash stashed, moved into account a she doesn't know about.

3. Emotionally prepared in therapy

Ironically with all this prepared you can feel free to work on the relationship. Knowing you have a safety net if needed.

I wish you both the absolute best, and yes  I believe it is possible to love them. That's what makes this all so incredibly difficult

Thanks for the replies and I read the link you posted.  How do I get over the fact that leaving would devastate my daughter and basically leave her defenseless with her mom?  I mean it's bad enough, but when you go through a divorce this will have my wife go through insanity.  Honestly there have been times where when my wife can't deal with stress, she does some really weird things.  For example, when she triggered, she jumped on our living room table with her high-heels, jumping up and down trying to gouge the wood out of it. 

She has threatened my life in the past, over the simplest of things.  I was sleeping on the couch and she wanted to sit down, I asked her to go sit on the chair.  She took the pair of scissors next to me and held them up over me with both hands, saying she could stab me in the heart.  She's also told me if I were to call the police, she would hurt herself and blame it on me.

How can I leave my daughter alone like that?  I don't think she would hurt my daughter physically, but the mental abuse would be there.  She would have her brainwashed about me.

That's why I wonder if there are non-BPDs that are actually in love with their BPD partner.  Is it even possible?

Wow, that's tough Silveron.  I believe I might be setting up some cameras if this is a common occurrence.  I have never been threatened with death by my wife. 

Remember first things first, if your dead you can't protect your daughter then either.  Just like they tell you on the airplane.  First secure your own oxygen mask then secure your child's!

Friends, Like Moselle, I left six years ago.  I went through all you describe during 13 years of marriage (before we separated): suicide threats, rages, verbal & physical abuse, messy divorce, estrangement from our kids, getting painted black, etc.  Towards the end of our marriage, I was no longer in love w/my BPDxW.  Love slowly dies, in my view, in a BPD r/s, due to the constant turmoil and the impact of abuse on the Non.  Maybe it's possible for some Nons to love their BPD spouse, as Moselle suggests, but it wasn't something I could sustain.  

LuckyJim  

Thanks LJ. Once it's in the hatred stage I dont think there can be intimacy (though there might be sex) , I needed to have dates that were activity based and didn't require any talking/discussion, and there were the regular invalidation rages. I got lonely and the knowledge/acceptance that it might never improve and that must accept a caretaking life was too much for me. I put it boundaries against abuse and she eventually could stand it no longer. I wasn't prepared which is why I encourage you to do it. I know it's the last thing you feel like doing. Just being in the relationship is a task in itself.

And I personally could never have recovered while married to her. I still have a ways to go, but I am well on my journey. This is a gift I can give my children - one healthy parent.

I have never loved someone as much nor will I love this much again.

I think I love my spouse but I'm not sure romantically anymore. Married 24 years. I told him I couldn't go on this way - I was overwhelmed, burnt out. He suggested he leave. The next morning he left before I woke up and after several hours decided to attempt suicide. I got the police to him before he hurt himself at all. I was reeling and angry and decided he needed to not come home. All my hopes that it would get better if he left are shattered right now. Now I'm past where I was before - extreme anxiety moving towards depression. I got medication but it doesn't kick in for a bit. I'm starting to question not letting him come home. Maybe it'd be better to let him recover here and then work out separation details. But I think that's guilt. It's not what I really want. I need time away from him. Do I love him? I think so. Just not enough to go through this anymore.

Oh wow.  To answer your question, no, I'm not in love.  However, I don't have near the story you do.  My 18 year marriage, now that the rages subsided last year when I really disconnected, is mostly one of survival "together" for kid care.

"Mom gets the kids, dad gets the bills."  I will comment on this.  It is a myth that dads perpetuate that mom gets the kids in divorce.  It is generally true, because, generally, dads believe it - and act accordingly.  When / if a dad prepares for divorce, establishes his super-dadness, builds facts, and does his homework, presents his case, then, the family court will use those facts and laws and preparation. 

Solid advice I believe in is to begin and end with a goal of 50% custody, and joint legal.  Everything else (money, property, alimony, support) is basically window dressing.  Get custody settled and signed first - then negotiate down to a livable settlement with everything else.

That said, no one but you can make the decision whether to divorce, ride it out for the kids, or actually try to improve or recover your marriage.  Divorce is expensive, painful, and causes great harm.  So is marriage to one with a clearly malformed personality.  Shame on you if you leave your kid after a divorce. Look at it as establishing a place she can be safe for 50% of the time, and make it so.

Much of what you write sounds as though you are truly unhappy and in an unhealthy marriage that will not improve much above an abusive relationship.  Think on it, make a decision you can live with.  I get the feelings you are still letting yourself be owned by her.  If you are afraid that she will kill herself if you leave, then she is controlling you with that fear.  What she does, for better or worse, is up to her.  I discovered that in my marriage, I somehow ended up living with a petulant moody child of a wife who somehow had made it my job to care for her.  I am still breaking out of this mold, but, I have come a long way.  She has problems with or without you.  You can't save her.   Don't listen to her lawyer, her psychologist, her family, her "team" - or her insanity.

I agree, Moselle.  Being married to a pwBPD for 16 years was the crucible for my personal growth.  I like to think that I demonstrated to my children that change is possible in life and one doesn't have to be a victim stuck in an abusive situation.  Whether this message will ever sink in for my kids is hard to tell.  I also consider it healthier for my children to be free from daily conflict between their parents.  The sad part is that I'm currently estranged from my kids after my anger-fueled Ex painted me black, though I'm confident that the tide will turn at some point as they gain independence (they are teenagers).

Like you, Moselle, I never could have recovered while married to my Ex.  I nearly destroyed myself emotionally, physically and financially during our marriage.  Towards the end I had nothing left in the tank, so-to-speak.  I lacked the strength to leave and only escaped due to two kind friends and a family member who conducted an intervention.  It was humiliating, yet got me over the hump, for which I'm very grateful.

LuckyJim

LuckyJim,

  That's what I'm afraid of the most, that she will turn our daughter against me.  I know she would.  She's already tried.  The times she's tried though, I was there to talk to my daughter and she understood why mom was saying these things.  If I left her 50% of the time, all the insanity, the anger, the verbal abuse would be totally directed at my daughter.  I have to protect my daughter, I have to step in front of my daughter and take the barrage of bullets.  Otherwise, her childhood (IMO) is gone.  Her anxiety will even be higher and all her goals and dreams would be dashed.

  My daughter is already showing signs of high anxiety and I know she feels torn between us.  I try to not have arguments in front of my daughter, however my wife speaks her mind when she wants.  Just for an example, last night she has very bad credit card debt.  Two months ago a CC company was going to take her to court.  I was able to lower the payoff amount and used her money along with (again) some of mine to pay it off.  Well, last night not only did she tell me she blew through her paycheck of $1,000 in 5 days and needs money for gas in her car, but she also told me she got another credit card a month ago (idk how, her credit score is like 500) and already maxed it out.  Where her money went, no clue.  I pay all the bills.

  Thing is, the courts won't care about stuff like this.  I live in Pennsylvania and they don't want details about a divorce.  She already told me she would go after me for alimony as well.  I tried talking to her last night, but she would just twist things and use the FOG on me.

  The most important thing to me is my daughter, I know if I were to leave it would destroy her.  She counts on me everyday, since I'm the only stable parent she has.  I'm her security, her friend, the one she can feel safe to talk to.  If I'm not there, she is left out to defend herself.

 

I am so sorry, Silveron. This is such an unworkable situation for you and you really want to protect your daughter. I grew up with a BPD mother and a non father. I can't say whether it would have been better for my parents to divorce or not. My father ultimately got totally worn out by my mother's crazy. It's exhausting to be around someone like that. If you were to get equal custody, you might be able to provide a sanctuary for your daughter, away from her mother's acting out behavior.

Quite frankly, there's really no way IMO to protect your children entirely from their BPD parent. There's always damage, but figuring out how to minimize it is the important thing. I think, had I been around other healthy family members more, it would have really helped in giving me role models that I could emulate. If you can send your daughter for visits alone with aunts or even to camp, that, in my mind, would really be helpful.

I was never "in love" with my first husband, though I grew to love him as a friend with benefits, then learned to hate him when he started to behave abusively on a regular basis.

With my current husband, I've never been more in love with someone... .at the beginning. Over time, through his weird BPD behavior and alcohol abuse, I grew to dislike him. Now I'm starting to re-appreciate who he is. Love him? I care for him deeply. Definitely not "in love" but I do "love him" as a verb, but it takes effort sometimes.

I understand, Silveron.  I stayed way longer than was healthy for me for the same reason: my kids.  I justified staying on the theory that I provided a stabilizing influence for the boys, to counteract the turmoil and drama of my BPDxW.  Whether this strategy proved effective is hard to say, because I ran myself into the ground until I had no choice but to leave.  I did my best and can honestly say that I tried everything.  I think I owed that much to my kids.

On the other hand, I wonder what sort of an example I was setting for my children by staying in an abusive situation?  Maybe that caused scars, too.

It's a tough call and I doubt there is any hard and fast rule.  I will add that my emotional/financial/physical collapse was no help to anyone in the family, so I recommend that you pay attention to your own care and well-being.  I ignored my own warning signs which led to a crash landing.  Not fun, believe me!

LuckyJim

@ Silveron - I know you love your daughter, and you feel as though you protect her.  However that is only when you are there, and can recognize, and act on what's happening.   I ask you, (but I should ask myself the same thing, since I'm "staying for the kids" where can your daughter go for safety and sanity?

Would she be better off knowing there was time with daddy - somewhere else in which she felt less anxiety and didn't see the strife?  - open question, since I want the answers too.

Silveron, I don't know how old your daughter is, but if she's school age, as years go by, there will be less time spent with her parents, as you well know.

I don't know if my story of a BPD mother is typical, but when I was less than 8 or 9, we had a very good bond, for the most part. I do remember her asking me when I was maybe five or six who I would choose to live with if she divorced my dad. Other than that, I don't remember much conflict, nor do I remember much physical affection either.

It wasn't until I started having ideas of my own, that's when the trouble started between us. Even though I had little contact with my aunts, just the time I spent with them was really valuable. I saw women who did things my mother didn't do, such as wiping the bottom of the milk glass when I had dribbled milk down the side. I thought that was really smart.

I also saw women who were even tempered and who expected age-appropriate behavior from me and who were loving and kind and who made me feel like they were interested in what I was thinking. They showed me a bit of their world and that was incredibly valuable in contrast to the world my mother inhabited, which was one of boredom and anxiety. They were creative, joyful and giving. Just the short amount of time I spent in their presence made me realize how different my mother was, and not in a good way.

I encourage you to enroll your daughter in classes, take her to events where she can meet adult women who can show her things that she might not learn from her mother. It will make a huge difference in her life.

I am also trying to decide to stay or go for the kids.  I have already seen or rather heard what happens when she needs an outlet for her anger.  She's never hit them but the anger she would spew before I put and end to it was horrible.  Through her self discovery, I use the term very loosly, she and her therapist decided that she was taking her anger at me out on the kids.  What was she angry about? I didn't do enough to help around the house.  She is a stay at home mom with the 2 boys, 13 & 9, so she also has lots of free time in the day.  I also do the majority of the cooking and cleaning and when I'm gone out of town for work, she still doesn't cook but orders out every day.  But somewhere in there it was decided that I wasn't doing enough and she was angry and took it out in the kids.  

Now after I heard the things she was saying to my oldest on my voice mail, I put an end to it.  I basically told her if she ever did it again she was going to be tossed out and the lock changed.  I'm sure I used several adjectives to describe it.  But that and other examples are why I stay.  She has proven she cannot be trusted to focus her anger away from the kids so I stay to let her focus it on me.  

Am I setting a good example for my boys? Probably not because they are growing up thinking that is ok to let someone treat you this way.  But when they are older and can understand it better, I will explain it to them and hope they understand my sacrifice.  

This resonated with me. 

Much of what my wife seems to what to do is "tell the kids" what to think.  Give them the answer.

Much of our conflict revolves around me asking them what they are thinking and feeling, for instance, how they felt about a Bible passage.

Hmmmmm

FF

Hi Form, I think this comes from a fixed mindset, black and white world where an answer is right or wrong, people are good or evil.

Growth or learning, is not as important as being right.

There are alot of "leaving" messages in this thread. Can you balance it out from a "staying" perspective?

Sure thing.  I was thinking about this thread as I had my breakfast and enjoying my coffee... .thanks for the invite to add.

I do love my wife.  To understand that, I would like you to consider my view on what love is and what the meaning of my wedding vows are... .to me.


Most people think of love as a feeling (and it is), but I also think of love as an attitude that guides my actions.  My wedding vows are a promise to my wife about the future.  That I promise to "love" her in the good times and in the bad.

For me, that means I will have the attitude of love (now and in the future) when I am deciding about healthy actions and words in our relationship.  That I will do my best to "love her".

Here comes a very important point for us nons.  I'm not making a promise to "feel" a certain way.  My feelings are... .(just let that sit for a bit).

How does that apply to a high conflict r/s with a person with a PD?

I've promised to do my best.  So has she.   There is a HUGE difference in our best  That sucks, but it is what it is. 

So, when she rages on and I've not had good boundaries and listened to the blather, I'm quite certain that I don't "feel" love for her.  But I will do my best to honor my promise to love her, regardless of what she does.

Another point of clarity.  Sometimes the most loving thing is to let a person sort out what is theirs to sort out.  As long as I'm getting to that answer with an attitude of love, vice a vengeful desire for her to stew in her own misery (yeah... .I've been there... .many times), I think I'm carrying out my promise to love my wife.

Last point for now:  I also think self care is loving.  If I want to do the best for my wife, then I need to be my best.  Many times we nons "give too much" and then can't do our best.

FF

Nice post FF,

My "problem" is that I am a pretty sensitive person when it comes to certain relationships. I have been trying to "figure" myself out. I went to MC by myself yesterday and I had a moment where I saw my core problem that has existed all my life. I lack assertiveness in some relationships (close). Yesterday I truly owned that about myself.

The MC gave me a series of modules "Assert yourself" I read the high points just looking through it but I was sitting with my mouth hanging open thinking this is me to a T

I said all that to say this, I love my wife BUT if I need to change the way I am (change for me not her) It also hurts her because I end up having resentment build up because I don't say what I need to say. (the right way)

As the MC told me, as has been stated here on these boards, that changing my behavior comes with a price. Do I have the guts to change? Do I have what it takes to "lead" someone who holds so much against me and blames me for everything that goes wrong.

That's where I battle feelings. That is just human

My wife used to be the best cook.  It was one of the reasons I fell in love with her:  the quality of the food and the knowledge that she made so many things just for me and the way she showed me she loved me via the intimacy of eating together with each other - often with just the candles lit and wine and just the two of us and no distractions - was one of my favorite memories of our relationship.

Over the last two years, I can count on one hand the number of times my wife cooked anything; I wound up cooking for our family almost any time we ate, and though the intimacy tends to die down with children running around, there was still ample opportunity for us to rekindle that aspect of our marriage.

To your point, the last fight that led to her leaving I told her the last nice thing she had done all year for me was making me dinner one evening.  And that was it.  That's all.  With her being in treatment and me working all day, coming home to take care of the children almost exclusively by myself, then taking care of her the best I knew how, I could tell her a laundry list of things I had done to show her I loved her for just that week.  And it wasn't about score keeping; it was literally that other than making me dinner one night I literally couldn't think of anything she had done to show me - not tell me - she loved me.  Nor could she.  My best was showing her every day in ways big and small that she was my queen.  I didn't even get crumbs any more.  And I'd had enough. 

The worst part?  Rather than put effort into me or our children or our marriage, she chose to leave.  Not only could she not show me love, she felt better abandoning our family than taking accountability and responsibility for her actions and her obligations to our marriage.

Byfaith,

I'm much the same way.  Bigshot Naval Commander giving orders type of guy and not very assertive in my most intimate relationships.

I've changed that a lot.  Using a boundaries mindset and realizing that decisions that are "within my property" I MUST be assertive about.  Having property (boundaries) comes with the responsibility to enforce.

I would add a bit, or suggest something to Byfaith.  Likely applies to many of us.

Have the courage to change for you and give your partner time (and space) to see that change and make a choice.

You are not involved in "helping" them make the choice  You are involved in presenting the choice to them.

FF

I have learned that it takes a lot more than normal abilities to coexist with a PBD partner.  I can't have bad days, moods changes, different opinions, changes of opinions, moments of human weakness, losses of temper, voice any disagreement, raised voices, deep breaths that are audible, I can't be too tired to talk about it, and so forth.  Any variance is trigger for something.  

What does "honoring her choice" look like for you?  What does "loving her" look like now?

FF

@Icanteven - I have gotten to the point now where the shoe is on the other foot.  For umpteen years, I was showing and expressing love, the best I knew how.  Cooking, cleaning, fixing, child care, gifting, dating, earning and supporting, providing, protecting... .for so long I reached a point of internal emptiness.  Now I can't muster the will to fake like I love her very much.  Now it's my turn to stand accused of not showing enough love.  I'm trying.

For better or worse, honoring her choice is the easy part:  I've had to let her go.  She's on her own journey now.  I would love to share it with her, but after being in therapy for a while now, my T has been able to distill her decision to leave and unwillingness to reconcile to very clear, very problematic FOO issues that I can't fix and that will haunt any relationship she ever engages in.

As far as loving her now?  I still find myself telling her I love her in my head when I'm in the shower or driving to work or after putting the children to bed or just even sitting on the couch watching tv, because I do still love her very very much.  But, unless a true miracle happens, she's not coming back and that's that.  Loving her now and honoring her choice are one and the same:  letting her go to live her life and finish her journey without me.

Very well said.

FF

Icanteven. I can feel the pain in that - I made the same choice. Ironically when it came to letting her go, our MC said its the highest form of love we can offer. She looked at her when she said it, but I think my ex completely missed the point. She was back on her horse saying "Why don't you fight for me?".  

Now 2 years of court rooms later, I'm still fighting her, not for her. I'm praying for settlement on monday. Dear Lord let this end.

No, I don't love her any more. For years, she verbally abused me, browbeat me, called me names, criticized everything I did (and many things I did only in her mind), and made it so I had to subjugate myself to her explosive and irrational moods.

Who could love someone like that? A masochist?

@ hmcbart: I did this, too, figuring that it was better for me to be the buffer between the kids and her anger.


@ FF: Agree w/that.  We Nons tend to put so much energy into taking care of our BPD SO that we neglect to care for ourselves, which leads to burnout & exhaustion.  Towards the end, I was no longer at my best.


@ byfaith: Yes, I believe you do have the guts to do what it takes.  Of course you will be blamed (so what?).


@ Samwize: Agree.  You are not superman!  Think it's unrealistic to think you can't have a bad day.


@ Icanteven: Agree, that's the loving thing for both of you, as hard as it is.


@ flourdust: I echo your thoughts.  After years of abuse, my love for her died.  Now I feel indifferent.

Thanks to all for your thoughtful posts!

LuckyJim

Yes I love her, the good and the bad

Maybe that's the decider for staying or going. There is support and strategies for both goals.

Stay or go, please prepare yourselves for them leaving because that is totally out of your control. As you get healthier they may choose not to follow and that is their right. Love them enough to set them free.

But understand that you have likely not experienced the volcano that will then erupt. And the reason to be prepared is so that it ends quickly by having what YOU need to be decisive, not becoming a long dragged out court fight.

Have the agreements typed up by a lawyer, have the finances arranged, decide what will happen with the the children.

When this is all in place, you can feel protected and free to work on the relationship if staying is your choice. Your back is covered.

I'm in the beginnings of the decision making. uBPDh left, attempted suicide (talked out of before any harm), hospitalized and then I asked him not to come home. It's been close to 3 weeks now. I've gotten the advice from others to separate finances. I'm still hoping for possibly staying.

If we take steps to undo our joint finances, do we do that in secret? That seems against building the trust we need. If we do it in the open, will that trigger being unable to get back together? I guess it's a fear of consequences either way.

Yes... .in secret. 

Worry more about you than the trust.

FF

Agreed.  Make your preparations and considerations private.  I'm sorry this got tossed at you (H going off the deep end), but you have no time to waste.  Play nice, while you do things like get legal counsel, open a separate bank account, establish a safety plan (emergency escape), and so forth. 

Most of the things either never have to be known to your partner (i.e. therapy visits and lawyers), or are reversible (stashing money, filing for custody).  So, do what you can privately to keep the stress off.

I know trust, openness, and honesty are fundamental to a loving relationship.  Unfortunately, I have reached the point at which I decided that those things apply to equal and non-abusing relationships.  The first time I lied to my wife was after about 17 years of marriage and I lied to cover my visit(s) to a therapist - to work out the damage done in marriage.  Ironic, or sad, or both.

Lol she already left me for good. She's the cut off type so I'll never hear from her again.

How do you love someone again after you've lost all respect for them?  My H has done so much to me that I wonder if I ever loved him to begin with?  I figured the roller coaster ride of his emotion would one day slow down. Instead, I get locked in at top speed times 10.
I'm reading all of these posts of loving them through it, and it's all I ever did.  What happens when I needed to be loved through something? 
What happens is that I'm thrust into the realization of my life. Looking at it from the outside. Had a perfect life. I left it 3 days ago. I have my kids. I don't want to go back.  I'm scared of how relieved I feel.
I don't love him anymore.
I can't even like him anymore.
And I'm trapped at my mothers ):

In reading your other thread, it appears that you've got a very good overview of your relationship dynamics. That's quite a feat, particularly when you're immersed in it. It shows that you're thinking clearly, despite strong emotions and your current situation having left your home.

From my experience with two husbands with BPD, it's really hard to love someone you don't respect. With husband #1, who was a lot like your husband except without the upward career trajectory and success, I don't think it was possible to regain the love and respect I had for him because he never accepted fault amongst other bad characteristics.

With husband #2, there's a kind and gentle person underneath some of the BPD weirdness, so I can look for the positives and regain my respect and love for him when I find it missing at times. I'm no picnic either because I no longer suffer fools and I'm quite judgey these days. But even when my patience with him is stretched thin, I have to admit there's a good person there, quite unlike my first husband.

It's been a number of years since I felt anything remotely like love or physical attraction for my husband.  His behavior chipped away at my feelings for him, little by little, until there is nothing left.  I filed for divorce June 7.  Our 34th anniversary is August 21. 

I just left!  I walked away from my "perfect" "unappreciated" life to seek "adventure" on his dime.
Is it okay that I don't care what anyone thinks and don't feel the need to defend myself. I only want to protect my children from this destruction and I don't know how. There is no amount of love I can have for a man who put me in this position!

it all went really bad - really fast.

Are you okay?  Any kids?  How did you do it for so long?

Hey Sam, That's the sad thing about BPD: it doesn't foster open communications, because you get slammed for stating the truth, so honesty is driven underground.  After my BPDxW flushed my Rx down the toilet, my doctor candidly recommending lying to my BPDxW about what medications I was taking.  My doctor said, "you have to lie when someone has BPD"!  It was an eye-opening statement, but my doctor had treated many patients w/BPD and was quite familiar with the disorder.

I didn't feel good about lying, but I also didn't feel good about getting my Rx flushed down the toilet, so it was sort of a Hobson's choice: damned if you do; damned if you don't.  A common scenario in my marriage to a pwBPD, I'm afraid.

LuckyJim

LuckyJim

Yes, the lies are necessary now.  As is hiding feelings, hiding money, carefully vetting words, never having a weakness or human moment. 

That disturbs me.  I recognize now though that I had been lying to myself for pretty much the whole marriage.  I'd say to my wife I loved her, and valued her, when in my heart I was in desperation and fear of her, and her manipulations - though I didn't recognize it.  I realized I was saying I love her, and faking it, to keep her from raging out, going silent, or doing something else unthinkable.  It's remarkable how pwBPD can obtain a result from someone like me, the unwitting victim.  I'm sure her behavior wasn't calculated or malevolent, but effective nonetheless.

It worked for her until I got to see the light, and became aware of BPD, and myself in general.  Now I am calculating, but hopefully not malevolent.

I hear you, Sam.  I did the same thing, in order to avoid an emotional explosion.  The truth is I was living a lie in my marriage.  No more!  It feels good to be my authentic self again.   :)

LuckyJim

I'm okay.    I'll be a lot better when he finally leaves.  Until my loan closes and he gets his money for his part of the house, he's still here.  Our kids are 31 an 26.  I distracted myself with other things, overlooked a lot, detached a lot. 

Like your situation, it's been emotional, not physical, abuse.  From reading your story, I'd say what you have suffered is a lot worse than what I've gone through.  I've just been in my marriage a lot longer.  You're smart to get out now, not wait for over three decades like I did. 

Here's to being authentic!  Although still married, I think my wife knows better to act out and then ask if I love her.  It used to work, but now I've traded lies about my loving her for lies hiding my exploration of divorce, and getting healthy myself.