BPDFamily.com

Hey everybody,

I replied to my last thread on the Deciding / Conflicted board, but I wasn't getting many replies and I'm in need so I figured a new thread would get more views; I apologize to the mods in advance if this is causing any difficulties (please let me know if you'd like me to do anything).

This is TheRiddler again, I thought I'd post an update.  (The original post is https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271227.msg12573862#msg12573862 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271227.msg12573862#msg12573862).)

I'm having a really rough time.  It's been about 1.5 years since we broke up and I haven't contacted her, and I was doing fine but for some reason or another I've hit a really bad patch.  (There was no formal NC but I wasn't in any mental state to communicate with her after the break up for a LONG while.)

I've been thinking about my ex again, and my crazed obsession with whether she and I will ever have a chance again, and I just can't cope.  I've been in touch with her mother, as those who've read my previous threads might remember I had been, and she's been dating though I don't know how serious any of it is (and she didn't know, either).  I'm dating as well, though I haven't been particularly happy with anyone I've found, but that's another topic.

I have an absolute OBSESSION over whether she and I could try for a fresh start some day.  It may work, it may not work, but I just would like the opportunity.  Of course, anywhere I go to get any kind of answers (my therapist, my psychiatrist, her mom, my family), can't tell me anything.  If I read internet relationship forums, I'm confronted with awful, horrifying posts about how, "People break up for a reason," and "one chance per person per lifetime," and all of that kind of extremist crap that puts me into a complete downward spiral, where I am now.  I know no one can really tell me, but there's so much information out there and so much of it is conflicting I just get sick and I can't function.

I honestly don't know if I'd want to be in a relationship with her; but I do know I would give it a try.  She hasn't attempted to contact me (though her mom told me my ex had looked me up on social media), I'm afraid to contact her because I'm in a really vulnerable spot.  I hear on these forums about people reaching out and others not, about boomerangs and cut-offs, and cut-offs who sometimes boomerang when they're able, and it makes my head spin.  I have intense OCD, and it's something I'm caught on.

I was wondering, gang: Is there a gentle way you could help me think about this to get unstuck?

Hi TheRiddler 

It seems you're having a rough time. Many of us are here hoping to support each other for recovery and healing. 1.5 years and obsession sounds difficult to undergo.

It seems from Cosmonaut's third quotation from you at this post (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271227.msg12576764#msg12576764), that part of the confusion is from the information that you're looking at. That might add to the uncertainty you seem to be feeling about how to handle the information about the disorder. There is a lot of strange information out there. I saw some just yesterday actually. Perhaps I can help here--here is the discussion on online resources (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=161211.0).

Perhaps dealing with things in a piecemeal fashion would be easier for you TheRiddler. It seems from the previous thread that there was quite a lot going on. There is also quite a lot going on here. That's understandable. I'd like to help. It's hard going through all these things when you're trying to get somewhere in your life. It doesn't help when you're knotted or feeling stuck.

I'm not going to pretend to know what level of obsession you are feeling. Judgment-free, gently, and I'm sincerely curious:

Where do you feel most stuck? Can you describe it?

You mentioned obsession. That's quite a high level of want. Can you describe why and the feelings around it? :)

Perhaps looking at those would be worthwhile. If you have comments on Cosmonaut's links at the end of the previous thread, go ahead and add them here.

I hope you find peace from this struggle.

I think the first question you have to ask is ... .why?  Why is this bothering you now?  Why do want to reconcile?  What has changed with her that gives you the impression a reconciliation wouldn't end up the same as before?  What does she do for you that adds to and enriches your life?  What does she do that tears you down and emotionally damages you? 

These are a few questions you need to answer.  Hope is not enough here.  There is a critical need for realistic expectations for a relationship with a borderline.  Understanding what it takes to be in an intimate relationship with a borderline is crucial for any chance of "success".  What are your expectations here if you were to reconcile?  How do you see the next 10 years of your life were you to reconcile with her?

These are some of the questions I ask myself when I think about a "reconcile" even though there is no chance of it.  The answers have a sobering affect on me ... .a healthy slap in the face which brings me back to reality and away from fantastical thoughts that "maybe" it could work. 

The fact I have to constantly remind myself of is nothing will change because she won't change without help and considerable effort on her part.  This is not something I feel will ever happen with her because she is incapable and/or unwilling to face the truth.  It will not matter how much I adjust/change myself to accommodate her borderline issues, there needs to be adjustments/changes on her side as well.  Then there is the issue of trust and respect ... .not minor issues by any means at all.

How about your ex?  What is she doing to address her condition?

I appreciate the responses, today was another set back.  I received a message from her mother that said that from what she's heard from my ex, she thinks we're two very different people.  She also said we're at very different places right now; my Mom took that to mean I'm still thinking about my ex and my ex is dating someone. 

I'm trying to date other people too, and for the most part the last 1.5 years haven't been spent ruminating about her.  Ex's mom also said in the letter she doesn't think my ex and I being together right now is in the cards, and all of this sent me into a screaming, crying mess.  Honestly, I'm calmer now and realize if she's seeing someone at the moment it's not in the cards, but my mind takes over and says she'll most likely be married to this guy, and every other horrible thing it can suggest to me.  I make it as bad as it can be in my mind, and I can't stop crying and screaming and carrying on.  I feel the most acute, severe pain I can't even begin to describe. 

The ex's mom also doesn't know she has BPD, as far as I know.

I feel in some way over the last 1.5 years I got by partially with the idea that she and I could have a chance at some point in the future.  I now feel that hope is completely dashed, though I sincerely hope I'll get people responding that I'm purposefully seeing the worst case scenario.  I find a weird solace in the idea that lots of BPD relationships don't last long, though I also feel that by thinking that way it'll make hers either end up in a marriage, or she won't get married but she won't want anything serious to do with me.


gotbushels:

I hope the above answers your question about the obsession, and you're right, it is a lot of want.  I can't explain it; I know she's not the best person in the world, but I'm not either.  I think it could work with communication.  Let me know if that answers your question.


C.Stein:

I can't tell you why it's bothering me now; it just came out of nowhere in a tremendous wave of obsession and pain.  I haven't spoken to her in quite a while so I don't know if anything's changed, and though I'm sure she realizes there's something wrong with her I doubt she'd seek help for it.  Yet, I feel this way.  As far as life enrichment, that's a tougher question because it's so tough to quantify.  We did argue (which I continue to completely blame on myself), but we also had quite a bit in common and got along more often than not.  Also, I feel infinite, just overflowing guilt for the breakup, that yeah it takes two to tango, but it was mostly my fault and I screwed up huge.  I tried everything to fix it once I was made aware of issues (she's a resentful waif) and it just wasn't enough, and I feel like a complete failure.  Again, let me know if I can elaborate.

I have an occasional urge to get her contact info, reach out and ask if she's completely written me off, but could I believe her?  I ask myself, "does she even have BPD"?  I wouldn't do that though because I'm in no mental space to handle more news I'll construe as bad.

I feel I screwed up really big guys, and I need real help.   I'm trying to think more positive thoughts, that she'll be available at some point and we can slowly start talking again.  I could really use some positive info, it's been a rough, rough day.

Don't think about her!

Or, you may do dumb things such as having unprotected sex during the most unsafe day with her like I did. Then, you'll be wondering if you may have added another innocent soul to the chaos even though your ex claims that she's cutting all contacts off.

Don't be me. Go on and find happiness elsewhere.

Respectfully, I'm not planning on having sex with her. 

I just want to see if there could ever be anything between us again.

Let's start here:


If you haven't spoken to her in quite a while, how do you even know who she is at this point? Let's say that she has changed, that change has just as much chance of being for the worst as it does for the best. How do you know if she's even someone that you'd like at all at this point? What would you tell your best friend in this situation?

Would you remind your best friend that he said this:


Does that not indicate some sort of change?


I'm sorry to be blunt about this one, it's even worse knowing that you're having/had a really bad day, but I really know of no other way to put it:
Is it possible that after 1.5 years and not having contact for "quite a while" (what does that mean exactly anyway?) that you might actually have your answer to that question? Again, what would you tell your best friend in this situation?

All of the questions raised have been designed in hopes of getting you to look at the reality of everything and bring you back to the present. I know that it's hard. I know that the pain is excruciating. I know that these r/s get us all scrambled mentally. But, being in the present helps. Being MINDFUL (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0) can help soothe the chaos and pain though.

I think that was a bit unnecessarily harsh, Meili.   If you're going to reply again, please be more tactful.

I always hear about recycles on this board, and now I don't know what to think.

I would also remind my best friend that this is her mom talking, and not her, and she herself said she was only guessing.

I apologize for being even a little bit harsh, I certainly didn't mean to be overly harsh.

Let's back up a minute. What is it that you want? Let's forget about her, what she may or may not be doing, and how she may or may not be feeling. Let's focus on you.

I appreciate that.

Unfortunately, this is me at the moment.  I'm dealing with it the best I can.  I was fine for a solid year after the breakup, and this comes out of nowhere. 

What I want, is an opportunity to speak to her again when she's not seeing someone and I'm more centered, and see what could happen.

I understand the feelings of guilt and having generally more good than bad.  I also feel guilt for my breakup when in reality it was a road she put us on about a year before I was thrown away and I did nothing to stop it.   While I accept responsibility for my part in letting her do this it was mostly her actions and choices that destroyed our relationship and me in the process.  Perhaps what I should feel guilty about is staying in an unhealthy relationship with someone who had repeatedly shown she did not respect or care for me, despite her words that said otherwise.  Six months before the trash bin I was holding on to futile hope when my gut was telling me that the last straw had been put on the camels back. 

What gets me though is the depth of it all.  In retrospect there was no real depth to our relationship.  It was a false sense of depth but when exposing it to the light of day it has become obvious that there was a fundamental lack of emotional depth to our relationship.  This wasn't always the case, for me at least, but as time went on the more damage her behavior did to me emotionally, the more closed and distant I became.  This brings me to enrichment ... .how did she enrich my life?  Like you, I struggle to answer this question and that alone speaks volumes.  Did she build me up or tear me down?  There were times when I felt she did enrich my life, bringing new experiences and joy into my life, being supportive and encouraging at times.   But there was always the undertone of fear and anxiety that never went away and that is something I must never forget.  Emotionally she tore me to shreds and that is not enrichment or healthy.

So how about you?  How thick was the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and why do you feel you are still in it?

At the time of our relationship, I didn't know she had BPD.  But looking back, I think it was probably pretty moderate to heavy; I realize that sounds ridiculous.  I don't know, it's tough to gauge.  She did all kinds of things I mention in my previous thread, but a few highlights are the emotional blackmail ("if you don't marry me, maybe my next bf will", endless arguments, bringing up things I thought we'd settled on from the past to create huge, crying arguments around, belittling me in front of her friends (though I thought it was just good-natured ribbing at the time, I think back and she really didn't like me being the center of attention around her friends), and other things I'm forgetting. 

I feel I'm still in it because like my old therapist used to say (I'm not seeing her anymore), this relationship is unresolved to me.  I don't expect a BPD to give me closure, but I don't think I did anything bad enough to warrant never giving me another chance.  (Obviously it's not up to me.)  Don't ask me why I'd want another chance, I'm not quite sure on that myself, but that's something I'm working on.  What's more immediate to me, is just feeling like a part of the world has been shut off because I'll never be able to see her again.  I know that's dramatic, but it's how I feel; I know my happiness doesn't depend on her and all of that, but I'm just stuck.

Is reaching out to her when she's single that bad of an idea (her mom would let me know)?  I also don't want to give up any "power" I have by being the one to reach out, which is why I've stayed NC, so I guess I don't know what to do.  I know from extensive therapy and different doctors and such, I tend to respond best to practical solutions or information, if at all possible, so I'd appreciate some practical things I could do to try to figure any of this out.

I think you need to start watching lots of u-tube videos on the subject of co-dependancy and magnetic attraction. You are "obsessed" in your own words and being in that place is really bad. It means you are addicted... .addiction to anything- even a person is bad. You would be wise to work on yourself, then if she comes around in the future you will be in a better frame of mind. I understand because I felt that way about mine. I still think about mine, but the longer time apart, the more I am able to put things in perspective. I was obsessed over mine and had it real bad the first time we broke up. I couldn't think of any thing else... .I ruined my own vacation, I couldn't eat, it was awful. Now I am so mad at myself for getting involved in the first place. Give it time and work on you... .you can't make someone want to be with you and why would you want to. Stop talking to her Mother... .you are only feeding her ego and pushing her away as I am sure the Mother is telling her that you are asking. Just talk it out with yours. Your relationship is unresolved in your own mind... .she seems to have moved on and when that happens, our egos are hurt. Work on you- I cannot stress that enough. Solve your issues now, so you will be better at relationships in the future. If you do not, you may repeat what you have not learned. 

Hey Herodias,

I think that's good advice, and I am working on me.  The thing is, I have moved on in some ways, and not in others, so it's complicated.  According to her Mom (who wouldn't share what I'm saying with her, I know the woman very well), she thinks I've moved on as well.  It's been a year and a half, so we're both in different places.  I got over her once.  A year ago at this time, I was doing just fine 5 months after the break up.  This is a new development, and a set back of sorts. 

And to be clear, our relationship isn't unresolved, it's completely over; that's not to say another one couldn't happen in the future. 

I thought a lot of the time borderlines recycle; I've read that all over this board.  Is that no longer true?  I know it doesn't happen all the time, but it seems to happen more often than not.  I feel like I'm the only one trying to support me in this discussion with positivity, which is what I could use.  I give myself enough "harsh truth."  I don't want to be lied to, but I don't want to be crushed either, you know?

Yes, these feelings come and go... .particularly if you haven't met anyone that fills that empty spot. They tend to recycle when they don't have anyone else... .so it may or may not happen. Mine did it in the beginning, we broke up once then got married then split up three more times... .the last one being the end. Things got worse every break up. I do not wish to go through that again and even with the knowledge I have here, I don't want to be with someone that embarrasses me or that I cannot trust at all. If I were you, as I have been there... .I had to stop focusing on the good things I missed and focus on the bad. We don't want to do that, but it is necessary, because that is the whole person. Focus on the bad and ask yourself why you want that in your life... .I think if you keep working on you, you will not feel compelled to have someone who is mentally ill as a partner and you will be able to meet someone you are more compatible with. You said you are "not perfect" either. None of us are, but is that a reason to settle for a bad relationship? It sounds like you feel like you are not good enough. It is good to be positive and look at reality.  Listen, mine would have recycled after getting another woman pregnant! What kind of life would that be for me? Reality stinks, but it is what it is, as mine said... .Keep working on you and you will be just fine. It's normal to have set backs in our heads.

I totally get wanting the opportunity to try again.  I know it feels like you are getting negativity, but most of the folks here have been through it, and realized it isn't good for them. I think you aren't there yet, and maybe you don't need to be. Who knows?

I'm new to all this, but I think we can be thrown back into any stage of grief at any time. I can totally see myself in your position in a year. You want to see if it can work this time. If you do that, can you handle the hurt if it doesn't? Only you know if it's a risk you should take. I can't take the risk, even in a year, and that is a hard pill for me. I know, though, that it will likely end up worse if I do.

 What are your goals for a relationship? It may be her mother is telling you that her goals are not the same. It sounds like you trust her mother. What did you think when you got that warning? That's a pretty strong warning. Even so, only you know what you should do. I hope you find some peace! I know it is so hard.

Sure I got these urges too. "Completely written off" sounds like you're a piece of factory equipment TheRiddler:) If you feel this way, that's fine too, but a more accurate description could be that she's in some part decided that the relationship (read, not "you" cannot give her what she's looking for.

She may or may not have BPD. Curiously, why would it be bad for you if she's diagnosed BPD?


A lot of us have felt like we've screwed up at some point TheRiddler. Some serious, some not so serious. It takes time for pain to disperse--I encourage you to try to be kind to yourself. What are you doing to enjoy yourself? Self-care is one of the best ways we can help ourselves to heal. To skip this step can be self-sabotaging.

---

Did you get a chance to see the link Meili recommended? It's one of the best tools on the site. I'd encourage you to start with that and post if it's useful to you. Here's a related video (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.msg604907#msg604907) on what you can look forward to.

---

Sure, it does. None of us can be the "best" in the world TheRiddler, we usually appear somewhere in between. My relationship could have worked with communication too. It did actually, for a while, so I can understand your thinking. I don't think that's the way you want to be going though.

Would you mind defining where you are right now using this poll (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=284223.0;all)?

Also, which of the ten beliefs (https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality) do you think is holding you back most?

Take your time. I'd recommend you start with the mindfulness. It can carry over while you're processing other things.

I hope you get some rest.

She most certainly has BPD (detailed in previous thread), and it makes me feel better that she does because it relieves me of shame and guilt.

The idea about recycling is holding me back the most; if I don't have some hope, I don't feel ill get through this again.  People's responses about how she probably won't reach out scare me.

Honestly, being recycled just seems annoying unless you can somehow treat her with indifference. Then again, if you could treat her with indifference, you wouldn't be in pain.

Yeah, I can see that. 

This thread is really helping me: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=156203.0;all

Problem guys, need support

I don't have a fb account but hers is public so I was able to find pictures of the new guy on the guy's Instagram and it really hurt.

I think they've been going out a couple months and can't help but feel they're going to get married, then I'll feel she doesn't have a disorder and the demise of the relationship was all my fault.

I have a tendency to think up the worst possible scenarios and they scare me to death.

I feel I'm never going to have a chance, and I'm never going to get over this.

I suspected there was a guy so seeing him wasn't that big of a deal, but I still feel it's absolutely over, and I keep reading threads about how some never recycle and its just a cascade of hopelessness.

I'm not the type to completely dismiss professional opinions. Your ex may not be full-blown BPD, but you'd probably described enough details to your therapist for her to make that suggestion. With that in mind, you know she will NEVER have normal close relationships with ANYONE as long as she doesn't seek help on her own.

From my experience with my ex. Yes, she'll probably move on to the next person. Whether that's already happened or she's going to take another two-year break before dating again, it doesn't matter.

So what if they get married? Is it going to last? If it does, is it going to be a functional relationship? My ex's parents are still together despite of a completely dysfunctional relationship for over 30 years. My ex straight up told me she would have married the guy before me, but probably would have divorced him because of the myriads of issues he apparently had.

You don't want to be recycled. It'll only complicate the existing situation. For example, there's actually a good chance my ex could be pregnant by me because of my poor choices. We started having unprotected sex for two months after our breakup in April, with one of the last encounters during the middle of her cycle. It's only been one month since that happened and I'm concerned. She hasn't said anything.

If you read around, things tend to get worse the longer you are involved. Get your confidence up. You deserve better.

Thank you; I'm terrified.  And my therapist had a colleague who worked directly with Marsha Linehan and after hearing my situation was sure she's BPD.

Hi TheRiddler   
If you're looking for things that can potentially hurt you, please consider that it has a chance of hurting you. The little behaviours of your own like checking up on her and her life may need to be managed if they are harming you in some way.
I have hope for you. Try to be kind to yourself  :)

What are you terrified of? I know that might sound like a dullard question, but what is it that really scares you?

I've done the whole recycle thing. It isn't fun and the pain hurts worse each time. So, if you have that opportunity, and decide to participate, you probably need to go into it with your eyes wide-open with regard to what you're dealing with. Also, you would need to be really secure in yourself so as to not allow her actions to affect you so much.

Interestingly enough, the very things that you would need to do to protect yourself are the very things that people find attractive. Cyber-stalking isn't attractive. Not to mention that it causes us pain.

Yes, I know that now.  I was looking for support.

Sorry TR, I guess that we didn't validate what you are feeling, probably making things worse. That was not the intent.

I've done the whole cyber-stalking thing. I know how upsetting it can be, especially when still harboring the desire to have the good times back.

hi TheRiddler 


this is a good way to express your needs. how can we best support you?

I appreciate that.

It doesn't mean there couldn't be an opportunity to talk in the future, but it just makes me anxious.

Once removed: thank you :)

I just would like to feel that just because I was dumb enough to see that, that doesn't mean it'll last or that we can't reconnect at some point.

well, sure. seeing what you saw doesnt have to mean anything beyond what you make it mean.

what are you making it mean? why? i felt many of the same fears - it helps to talk about it.

Once removed:

I just feel they're going to get married, and that'll mean she and I will never have a chance and also that this guy succeeded where I failed and thus, our problems were mostly my fault and she doesn't have BPD.

Is it also possible that if she does get married, she's dies have BPD and that she's just not as emotionally invested in this guy as she was you so she isn't triggered as bad?

If so, that would mean that you did it right by making her actually, and genuinely, fall for you. She just couldn't handle it.

When my engagement with my ex didn't work out, something happened over Facebook. Eventually, her youngest sister blurted out that when my ex first broken up with while we were dating back in 2015, I apparently had forced her to come back to the relationship by force. How? The sister claimed that by harassing her family. I recall talking to her mom about if she knew why because my ex never explained anything.

So... .did the family faked all the compliments and opinions about me? Can you imagine if I had married my ex? In their hearts, they probably all hated the idea of me being with her. (I haven't talked about this yet, but my relationship was interracial with me being the minority.) I was fully aware that her oldest brother hated the idea of me dating my ex. Who knows if he knew I was sleeping with her. It's supposed to be a conservative household.

What would have happened was probably getting divorced over something ridiculous and end up with being accused as an abusive spouse. The divorce probably would have been really bad for me too.

Bottom line is, don't think just because she got married = the other guy succeeded. Even my ex claimed that she would have totally married the guy before me, but would have divorced him anyways because of his "apparent" issues.

Meili:

That would make me feel better, is that possible?  It got my hopes up

Is which part possible?

If you meant the part about love, sure it's possible. But that shouldn't get your hopes up about a chance of reconciliation. There are lots of people on these boards, myself included, who have truly fallen in love with someone that they don't want in their life anymore, in any form, for any reason, whatsoever.

If you meant the other part, sure that's possible too.

The reality is that none of us will ever know what goes on inside of her head. Anything is possible. What you need to ask yourself is what type of person you want to be if she were to come back to you? Do you want to be a broken man, or do you want to be a strong, confident one?

Since you don't know what she's going to do, the best thing for you to do is to work on making yourself a strong, confident person. There are so many benefits to this strategy.

You have to focus on you to get there, which means you cannot be focusing on her and what she might or might not be doing.

If she does come back, you'll be strong enough to handle her chaos so that you don't repeat the cycle.

If she doesn't come back, you won't care because you'll be strong and confident.

You're more likely to meet someone else, so if she doesn't come back you'll be fine.

You're more likely to attract her to make her want to come back.

Now, please don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that you work on yourself for her benefit. Far from that actually. That would be futile and fake. But, doing it for yourself guarantees success; whatever that success might be. It's a no lose situation for you.

I don't know what to think, how to position this in my head so I'm comfortable.  Now I feel I shouldn't have hope, others say recycling is inevitable, still others say you shouldn't hope for a recycle.  These boards can really twist you around.

I have a really good idea of how you feel. I was like that for a long time. There's still a part of me that hopes for another chance (recycle), and probably always will be part of who I am now. But, in the beginning, I was a hopium addict. Being a hopium addict can really do a number on your emotions though.

But, having hope is different from having expectations. Hope really isn't a bad thing. It's when that hope turns into an expectation or becomes all consuming that it becomes problematic. When we cross the line between hoping that something happens and expecting it to happen is where we breed severe disappointment and resentment.

The two points of view about recycling that you mentioned are not actually contrary. Many pwBPD try to recycle, but we shouldn't hope that happens. Recycling typically ends very poorly. It takes a very emotionally strong individual to maintain a r/s with a pwBPD. It also takes a person who is willing to subject him/herself to a life of chaos and mayhem. Most people just don't fit the bill.

This is the very reason that I suggested that you work on yourself and making yourself a strong, confident person. You cannot lose that way. You can still maintain some hope, as long as it doesn't become an expectation, and you'll be able to thrive either way.

A great first step on that journey is to take a long, hard look at your r/s with your pwBPD. Look at all that you experienced. Look at both the good and the bad. Give some serious thought about why you accepted the bad behaviors. Make lists if that's your thing. Do whatever works best for you to keep yourself focused on what actually happened during your time with your pwBPD.

Do you think that you can do that?

Hey Meili

You're like a surgeon with a jackhammer.  I appreciate the effort but you're just not helping.

What would help TR? What can we do to help you in the way that you want to be helped?

you mention youre seeing a therapist; do you feel heard? are these matters being addressed in therapy? and what does your therapist say?

The therapist isn't really helping, and neither is the psychiatrist. 

I'm caught up on being confused over recycling and cut off types vs boomerang types and the fact there's no rhyme or reason to any of this.  I don't know what to expect and I'm having lots of trouble with that.  I've been heavily researching BPD for the past1.5 years, and yet I still read and get affected by people's opinions even though it's pretty clear no one really has any idea what to expect.

I'm just looking for some way to know what to expect. 

And Meili, if you could not reply I'd appreciate it.

why do you think that is?

Hi TheRiddler,


It's really just up to the person with BPD (pwBPD) and what their choices are.  Is it convenient for them to recycle with previous relationships, or do they have a current replacement that is stable enough that it is unnecessary to recycle.  If you read around here, you'll see that while some BPD relationships last months, others can last for years or decades.  It also makes a difference what kind of mindset and background the nonBPD partner has.  All of them are unstable interpersonal relationships.  As much as we'd like to think pwBPD follow a specific script, their lives and choices can be as variable as anyone else's.


No one can see the future.  Why would you have trouble with that?


What are you looking for?  To understand BPD well enough that if you could do it all over again, this time you can get it right? 

In my experience, what pwBPD offer in order to seduce us into relationships are a mirage.  They are able to simulate what we imagine an ideal mate looks like for us, someone who offers redemption, a cure, heaven... .but what they want in return is that we give them the same thing.  Only we cannot.  We cannot fix their ills any more than they can fix ours.  What they offer is an illusion.  Is that what you are chasing?


Why won't you consider what Meili is writing?  Are you looking for someone to tell you something that will be helpful *in getting unstuck* or do you only want someone to tell you what you want to hear?  What is it that you want to hear?

Do you want someone to tell you that in a few months your ex will get tired of the next guy and then she'll come looking for you again.  That all the other replacements she's going through have nothing on you.  It's just a matter of time before she realizes that she cannot get from them what she had with you.  What she had with you was... .what?  Real?

Are you here to detach?  Or are you here for something else?

Best wishes,

Schwing

One thing I'm certainly looking for is tact and kindness, not overestimated credentials.  Every one has a really confident idea of just what a BPD person would do, it's just that it directly opposes every other idea.  I just feel like you guys are trying to pound "truth" into me.  That's noble, but I don't respond well to pointedly worded, hurtful comments, especially when they aren't necessarily rooted in any kind of legitimate expertise (not to downplay the experience of other posters). 

I don't know what board to be on, I feel like I should detach but I'm just not able, and that's disconcerting after 1.5 years.  I already went through a long time of barely thinking of her and being totally happy, but the feelings came back and I'm not even sure of the trigger.

you mentioned youve maintained a relationship with her mother, who is feeding you information. might that be triggering? is it helping?

I hadn't spoken to her mother in like 1.25 years.  She wasn't the trigger.  Seeing the picture wasn't the trigger either... Not the main one anyway.  I just don't know, I just had to know what was going on with her.  I needed to find that picture though, or I would have kept looking.

The thoughts on here about silence being a weapon hit a little too close to home, as I think my ex is a waif, but I don't know if this AJ woman is credible:

www.borderlinepersonality.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/07/borderline-pe-2.html

My ex wouldn't communicate her problems and if she did, it turned into a huge argument for no reason, or comments were so casual they didn't seem important.

Hi TR

I'm about 1.5 years out too - so hope you don't mind me commenting. I was in a relationship for 11 months, 1 month break up then 3 month recycle. The recycle helped me as it proved to me beyond reasonable doubt that we couldn't have a future together. That said, I went into it not expecting it to last and certainly didn't pin any real hopes on us working out as I didn't want to risk emotional annihilation if the inevitable happened. 

Even after all this, I still soothed myself whilst detaching by envisaging a future together 'somewhere down the line'.  I've stayed in touch with my ex and seen how BPD has affected her relationship with her mother and her children. It's been a fascinating insight for me.  I still care for her but no longer harbour 'happy ever after' fantasies as a tool for managing any painful feelings I may still get from time to time.

We are all different, however, and must all find our own path to redemption. I am sure there are instances where borderline relationships have been rekindled and gone the distance. I'm also sure you know that if this did happen for you it would likely be a very bumpy ride. 

Nevertheless, if that hope of a second chance is all that is keeping you gong at the moment then it is your choice whether to keep hold of it or not. However, as there seems to be no realistic chance of it happening in the short term, it may be healthier to not rule the prospect out but to devote less mental effort to trying to make it happen i.e. be more open minded and less blody minded and hope fate swings things your way.


Best of luck


Fanny

Hey Fanny,

That sounds good to me.  It's just when people write things like, "if that's all that's keeping you going... " I feel like it's such a long shot.

I've been thinking I would like to reconnect with her eventually, but only when I know she's not in a relationship.  I don't know a healthy way to go about that that'll allow me to maintain NC for my safety. 

It's tricky mate. These relationships affect us in ways no other ever did.  The key is to keep yourself safe and get emotionally more centred whilst plotting your path forward. IMO you can't get a borderline to come back - you've just gotta get on with your life and wait and see if they try to reconnect. There are no hard and fast rules about this, but if you think about their emotional instability seeing a guy being strong, confident and resolute is likely to be more attractive to them than one who might come across as needy and insecure.

My ex, for example, contacts me whenever there's a crisis - not for me to fix it, but because she knows I will be supportive, validate her concerns and maybe come up with a way forward. 

We can't control what they do - but we can control how we live our lives.


All the best


Fanny

Hi TR

Just read all of this thread and I think I know how you feel. I had that long break up where my ex told me to get out of her life. I googled her, could see no sign of her with someone else, then boom after a year she contacted me.

After knowing her for so long, I still love her so much but cannot decide if her actions are truly evil or as a result of BPD/NPD and associated pain.so much of what she has done seems strange to me.

As for her getting married, many years ago I dated a girl for 18 months who moved on from me and married the next guy. It hurt, but since 2013 I have seen her and any time I do she looks so unhappy. She didn't have NPD or BPD but something about her told me she had an underlying unhappiness. Seeing her all these years on, looking so down, I think marriage did not make her happy. So even if your ex does marry, would it be forever, would it replace you?

With regard to being apart for so long, then feeling you want to reconcile, I get that. I have found myself going into a shutdown phase after her and I ended. It seemed like no matter what, I didn't want her in my life. Then boom something happens and I wanted to see her, almost obsession like. Long term would you like to see her, see if things will work, marry her?

Lastly, when I first began posting here I didn't like Meili's comments either but after re-reading them they forced me to confront some issues. I am not saying you should like them but as time has gone on I have found them useful & look forward to Meili's contributions.

I appreciate Meili's thoughts too, but they're similar to the ultra negative things I already think.  I'm looking for opinions to balance me out, not compound my issues.

As for long term, I honestly couldn't marry her if she didn't get help. 

I posted this, in case you missed it:

I've been thinking I would like to reconnect with her eventually, but only when I know she's not in a relationship.  I don't know a healthy way to go about finding out when she's single that'll allow me to maintain NC for my safety, other than her mother.

I know how you feel.

I would love to reconnect with my ex too. But like you, I couldn't unless she got help. The last time we did couple's counselling, she was pregnant and any time I put my point across she began to cry and the counsellor stopped. I didn't want to hurt her either and I stopped. It became 100% about her and how awful I was. So I listened and accepted I was horrible... .The only way to ensure he was born safely.

These days I sincerely doubt she will get help. Before splitting I asked her to go for couple's counselling again and she agreed but then withdrew after being violent to me.

How does that relate to you? I get your dilemma. If her mother was able to guarantee 100% she was not in a relationship could you suggest therapy as a couple? At least there if she agreed she might see you as a possible partner and it would allow you a chance to speak 50% of the time. If there is a chance maybe you could pursue but my experience to date has been my ex simply not changing and insisting I am the problem. For that reason I am on week 7 completely no contact. I am refusing to allow her tell me how bad I am any time I collect our son.

I know this is tough - to date reconnecting has not worked for me so just letting you know that. That is not to say the same would happen to you.

Good luck!

I'd have to say there's little chance she'd get therapy.  :/

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