BPDFamily.com

He: Passive aggressive narcissist TEXTBOOK BPD
Me: Crazy for putting up with it for so long
Together 17 years, married 15
2 boys 10, 12

I grew up inside of insanity with my narcissistic mother. After escaping at 16, I spent the next 12 years of my life being independent, carefree, never worrying, doing what I wanted, taking chances, traveling, making my own decisions-some I have regretted tremendously-and accepted responsibility for that.

When I was 28, I met my future. 17 years later, I find out that future is hell.

I've put up with his constant need to hold me down with insults, hurtful comments and kick me when I was down. Dealt with the frustration of his complete denial of ever doing anything wrong, excuses, denial, lies, fighting and always finding a way to make EVEEYTHING my fault.
His innate ability to turn everything around to flip it so that he looks perfect.
I've been his scapegoat, his excuse and his outlet to discharge his need to humiliate women.
He's made every happy occasion horrible for me and I've allowed it.
The world thinks he's perfect and that's because I fought like hell to enable him and give him the strength to get stronger, while he quietly chipped away at my strength and independence.
He withholds sex as a means of control out of anger-it's the only place where he can't deny that he's completely vunorable - so for years it's been cold, courtesy sex, if any. He's humiliated me, lied to me and used so many words. Words. Words. Words. It's all I've heard for so many years. His words dismissing me, lecturing me, directing me, inturrupting me, hating me, loving me. Saying he loves me with a hateful tone. Lots of words with the opposite action. Yelling at me to listen to his words, not his actions. Controlling me. Assumption of knowing exactly what I - and everyone else for that matter - are thinking.
My enabling and validating his behavior has helped in his success. I have a prosperous life, stay home with kids, nice cars... everything every girl dreams of.
But no one knows what one puts up with behind closed doors.
The pain and anguish that builds up, the levels of manipulation he has gone to astound me.

Starting my research on his behavior and understanding now that it's an actual personality disorder of his and I'm not crazy.  I learned how to deal in survival mode in the past. The knowledge gave me the strength to not be pulled in.
He has felt the slack. Behaviors were changing and he didn't know how to act outside of auto pilot. He got worse.
I started to drink alcohol 6 months ago. Went from never drinking to raging alcoholic Jumping on the first 6 month ride on the crazy train - become fearless, reckless, self-destructive and even got a tattoo.
Something unclear, aweful and damaging happened.  I woke up and realized how bad it had gotten. How much I changed in 6 months... .all to have the ability to deal with him and having knowledge made me hate him.  He was not being my partner when I needed him yet again, he was making the situation worse and bugger than it was behind my back.
He acted surprised when I told him how much I had been drinking and confronted him with the fact that it's actually HIS FAULT - yes!  Not mine!  His!  Cause he was making me effing crazy! 
Suddenly, the sound of his voice grated my brain, his words meant nothing, his excuses empty.
I had to get my kids and leave. I've stayed with him for them, but it's not healthy for kids to see their mom in a drunken rage calling their dad many horrible things. I lost it!  So I packed up and left.
Driving 6 hours to my narcissistic mothers house is a story for a different thread, but it has given me the time away to look at things much differently than I had before.

What he's doing right now, how he's acting... .humiliating me to the world to save face.  Not doing a thing to make it better for me... .he's making it clear that he controls me 100% and I will do what he wants because he's the boss.  I need to learn how to take instruction from him. I am the alcoholic and he needs to get the devil out of me. Make me go to bible study... .uh, we've never gone to church. 

The reality is; I've realized how bad it actually is. I don't want to go home. I don't want him anymore. He's ruined everything. I've taken the blame for everything. This is his. He's letting me know that everyone in my world at home now thinks I'm a crazy unfit alcoholic out of control mother. They are following his instruction on how to deal with me upon my return.
Why would anyone be crazy enough to leave the perfect man and the perfect life? 
Because I need to get off the train.
I'm done.
I just need simple. Easy. Genuine. Laughter. I just want to lay in bed on a Sunday morning with a normal man and just laugh.
I'm 45 years old.  Living a lie.
How do I start over when I don't even want to go home?
And now, I realize that the unclear incident that started this ball rolling, was not my actions as he is announcing. He did it. He did something so publicly humiliating to me, but made me think I did it.  Master manipulator.
But, I'm sober. I'm out. But will I ever be free?

   

Thank you for sharing your story. 

Do you have shelter and food set for you and your kids?

Do you have a T for you... .to help sort out where you are and where you want to go?

You have found a safe place to get help.

FF

I've got shelter and H is "allowing" me my space right now while he is attempting to destroy my character to anyone who will listen. His perception of his own perfection blinds his ability to ever see any fault in anything he's done.
I haven't found anything yet. Just landed far from home.

It sounds like you endured the relationship as long as you could, then you "hit bottom" in six months drinking, and now you've escaped and wonder what's next.

My suggestion, in addition to formflier's is to find a therapist and a lawyer. It's got to be hard when your narcissist mom's home is an improvement from being with your husband.

I had a turning point in my first marriage and I knew it was irreparably broken. The therapist will help you confirm this, but you sound pretty certain already. But I didn't have kids, so it was easier for me to end it.

You need to find out your legal options and what your husband is responsible for, since you were a stay at home mother. You might also want to post on the legal board here. There's a wealth of knowledge there.

   

Lol. Yeah. Been a rough few days.  And being at my narcissistic mothers house - the first person to ever teach me that it's OK to be manipulated and treated like an owned object - has been a refreshing change.
But day 4 into my sobriety and FOG clarity and I'm feeling as though I might be feeling something again.
Thank you for the info legal advise board.  I don't know where to begin, but a therapist is first to go to. But I'm out of state. So, I don't know what to do but lay here in this room staring at the walls for hours. I think I'm in some state of shock.  I have one friend in all of this - who wasnt a friend at the start of my 6 month crash and burn - was more of a casualty of my internal war. Became a friend over the realization that our spouses are twisted soul mates cut from the same BPD cloth. This friend is the ONLY person who understands how bad it actually is.  Everyone thinks I'm the crazy one. Crazy for giving up a "perfect" man. No one has ever seen the real crazy.  stuff that's too embarrassing to admit to and if you do, most people can't wrap their minds around it. Not worth having the money. I'd rather breathe on a beach feeling deep internal peace poor over a million dollars any day. Every day.

OK... .you situation sounds safe, but maybe not particularly healthy for your emotions.

Some very general observations and advice.

1.  Don't talk about situation with your mom.  Let her know what you need (food, someone to watch kids, quiet time)... .whatever.  But I would shy away from any type of emotionally heavy stuff there.  You already have a lot on your plate.

2.  Be deliberate about self care.  Take a couple walks a day (for starters), whether you feel like it or not.  Take kiddos on a walk and make sure you are by yourself for another.  Make sure to do light stretching and light exercise as well. 

3.  Can you get a book that you have been wanting to read.  Pick something not about relationship stuff.  Just for fun reading.

4.  Keep a paper and pen handy.  When you want to sit and stare at walls.  Write down your thoughts.  Questions.  To do lists. 

5.  If you are religious.  Call local churches or united way.  They may have free counseling or can direct you someplace.  First couple visits will be gathering thoughts and organizing.

Hang in there.

FF

... .6. Expect that you will feel cr@p. Expect that you will be depressed and cycle through being happy/free and alone/sad. Allow your body time to heal. This will take months if not years. Allow yourself time to feel, but also don't wallow in it. Take control when necessary.

7. Stay true to yourself. Don't start second guessing the relationship. If you feel like going back to him, re-read what you posted.

You are worth being happy.

... .as I'm laying in bed staring at the wall.  That's all amazing advise that I need to re read in an hour or so.
When did this all happen?  How?  I am so much smarter than this!  I feel like I was fooled for so long.   It also feels amazing to not be drunk or getting there.  I need to move forward. Just keep moving forward.  I just wish I could move off this bed today.

That's got to be a really hard place to be... .where you are wondering if you can move at all.

Most of us have been there.  I certainly have.

I push walks... .because they usually do me good.  I used to live on a 3 mile "loop".  Mile 1 I would be grumbly and pissy.  Somewhere in the second mile I was able to look at different perspectives.  And the last mile I would spend focusing on one or two positive strategies... .or focusing on one or two things I would NOT do (such as pick up the bait for a fight).

The goal of the walk is not to get away from the feelings... .but to experience them in a productive way.  Don't stuff the feelings... .feel them.  Understand them.  Nobody else gets blame for your feelings or is responsible to make decisions to affect them.

That's all on you!  You can do this...   |iiii  Looking forward to hearing about how far you went on your walk.

FF

Yesterday, maybe the day before, I went on a long walk. Got lost in 112 degree heat and fell in a ditch, skinned my knee.  Kept going. Mostly because if I didn't, I would die.  and it did feel good.  I'm going to go walk now... .maybe it will help me get some sleep.

How did the walk go?

Learning a new place certainly leads to some interesting experiences... .


You have been through the ringer.  Be deliberate about doing things for you.  You will have to be ahead of your feelings on this.  In other words, don't wait until you "feel" like eating healthy or taking a walk... .or doing light exercise.

Before this move, did you work out much?  Would you describe yourself as a healthy person?

FF

This happened over time.  It starts small something is said and you brush it off, then it grows something happens and you think I can handle this, and it grows some more something happens and you realize you can't count on your partner... .You normalize things that are not normal.  You become codependent in an unhealthy relationship gradually. It is insidious.

For myself my own poor self esteem played a large part in staying in my marriage to an alcoholic, fear played a part, "being strong" played a part, not being able to ask for help played a part.  I like you and so many others hit the wall... .I was done.  19 years of dysfunction and I was done.  I had a breakdown of sorts I cried off and on for days, I finally told my truth and then had breakthroughs of understanding.  Everything will take time for you to process but you are doing something good for you and your children.

My family ended and began again with divorce.  I took my son and we moved out, my ex had visitation every other weekend.

I was free and happy.

My ex lost his wife, his son, had his 3rd DUI, lost his license, lost his retirement (to pay for lawyers), then went to work smelling like alcohol and lost his job.  He hit rock bottom.  He finally got it... .He was an alcoholic... .no more denial.  He has been sober for the last 5 years.

My son saw that people can change.  He saw his mother happy (I like you had been depressed for some time - food my drug of choice) and he saw his dad sober. 

What you are going through is an ending but is also a beginning.  Take some time for yourself but like you said above keep moving forward... .you can do this. 

Formflier and Cat Familier have both given good advice on tools to cope and protect yourself as you go through this transition.  Work on your emotional health but also start developing a plan... .what is your next move?

Take Care,
Panda39

Welcome UnfadingLife!  I always am saddened to hear about yet another painful situation, but glad you have found us.  I am almost 3 months out of 10 years and 3 children with an uBPD.  Stay-at-home, homeschooling, raised all our own food.  Had to leave it all behind.  We left with only the clothes we were wearing and still haven't been able to get anything from our home.  I work as a waitress now and friends and family helped me rent a home and furnish it.  Nothing fancy, be we are comfortable.  No garden or farm animals here, but we have beans, tomatoes, and peppers in our flower beds and a kitten  :)

It is not fun or easy, but keep pushing forward and you will make it.  You have no choice, right?  That is what I keep telling myself, anyway!  At first my uBPD talked everyone in town about how bad I was.  We live in a fairly small, rural community.  He has called the child abuse hotline on me 5 times since I left.  All through it I never bad-mouthed him publicly and focused on myself and my children and forged ahead.  Someone else saw him grab one of my older children at a public festival and went to the police with statements from 5 other adults who saw (unknown to me until after the fact).  Now he is in trouble and leaving me alone.

The only thing that is keeping me sane and safe is an amazing lawyer.  I could not make it without her!  Document EVERYTHING.  Save every text, email, phone message, etc.  Keep a journal too.  Start now and get it up to date.  Not really personal stuff, but what he does and what you and the children are doing.  It helps know what happened when.  I go to counseling, but I find it more helpful to read, read, read and learn about myself and why this happened to me and how to move on to a healthy life.  Now, if I could just stop missing him and thinking about him!  It is like a bad drug addiction!

Everyone here is amazingly helpful.  I wouldn't be safely out if it weren't for the advice and support I found here.  Definitely visit the legal board and the co-parenting board for help and support.  And keep posting so we know how you are doing! 

Day 5.
Better than day 4.
Feeling odd at the realization this morning that I haven't cried because of lost love, don't miss him, don't feel sorry for him and I get a stomach ache at the thought of hearing his voice telling me so many words giving excuses placing blame making comments and passive aggressive innuendos.
It sickens me to know how low he would go. And than he'd go lower. And lie and deny. Fight to the death going for the jugular from the jump.
It all came to a head the day I realized I began drinking just to deal with him. Thought having people around all the time would force him to be nicer to me, but it proved how manipulative he could be with his digs to push my buttons.
No one knows the truth. Everyone thinks I'm filled with demons sending me on this wild whiskey ride, getting a tattoo, looking for fun and adventure.
I'm just looking for peace and quiet.
I had to leave to stop drinking
And the tattoo, that was all me. It's the first thing I did to prove to myself that I am in control of me. Not him! 
It was the beginning of the new me.
Maybe all this had to happen like this so it could end.
Maybe I'm just a fool who thinks I could make it on my own with two kids and haven't worked for 13 years

My walk went well. Didn't get lost, needed to make a few decisions on which road to take (I decided to not pick a road and walk down the wash instead) and my big bun of hair on the top of my head got stuck in a thorn bush that I didn't know was a thorn bush until I grabbed the branch to remove it from my hair.
Got a medical marijuana card. Ate a tiny piece of chocolate. Feeling a little more relaxed.

 
Make a plan for where you will walk for next couple days... .hold yourself accountable to doing those walks.

I'd like to hear about some stuff you enjoyed during the walk... .

Can you make some phone calls to find some counseling resources?

If you or kiddos need to go to dr... .how will that happen?  Good time to plan ahead... .vice waiting until there is a wailing child and other fun stuff to deal with. 

FF

You must have many children FF :-)
I have really good PPO health insurance for me and my boys.
It feels so good to be away, but I'm in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the ft. Mohave desert where your water needs to be delivered and put in a tank, not one road paved, you have to watch out for rattlesnakes and fire ants. I live near Malibu. I keep expecting to see ocean and all I see is more desert.
I'm going to have to go home soon. But I'm going to wait to see how many other versions of himself I see before I feel something genuine. And what I've seen so far is just pushing me away further and further. The longer I'm away, the more I am seeing the real him. And I don't like what I see.

The purpose of going home is... .

The status of the r/s will be?

Step 1... .clarify this for yourself.

Once this is done, we can help you formulate your message to your SO.

FF

What is r/s?
SO= significant other?

Relationship and yes significant other

Abandonment and kidnapping. I live in California. I must return with the kids in a specific amount of time. Need to be legally separated. So I'm waiting a few days to see how he acts.  I may have to file by Friday.

If he acts decent, We need to make arrangements. I don't want to be married to him anymore. There is no coming back from this.

He will lie and deny. Lie and deny.

We sleep in separate rooms anyway. Just make it official.

Kinda flyin blind. Never left him before. 

Hello Unfadinglife,  


I fully understand as one who has tried to fix everything, be the scapegoat and taken so much abuse with excuses, denials, raging. I can understand where you are at, and the journey you are embarking on. The journey to the center of you and your core values.

I could have written most of your post, which many of the stories here are the same. I talked with a wise man who pointed out why many of these marriages end at the times they do, typical 18 months or 16 years. Without going into all the details, some of us chose to ignore the signs due to embarrassment, or feeling we could fix, or being scape goats etc. Mine had a health issue and thought he was very ill or dying, so I always had an excuse he worked so much, or commuted, or was in hospital, or got injured on job so very ill for his behavior.

He still rages, dysregulates, has his issues. The key... .they are no longer mine. I realized it was like nailing jello to the wall, no matter what I said, say, do , try, help it will always be his wonderful idea, I am wrong or my fault.

Kudos to you for looking out for you and your children. It is sad that going to NPD Mom's was better then staying in the situation. I can fully relate.

What are your plans for you and kids now? What small goals do you have to help you in your healing, and journey?

 It is good when we can remember the serenity prayer, and we didn't cause it, can't cure it nor control it with the other. The power and key is taking back our power and making better choices for ourselves.

Each day is a gift from God, how we use it is our choice and controls our future. Breaking habits, starting good ones, and living life with gratitude not only will help they are the path to success. You are taking the path to healing, being strong for your children and defining a life you want to live. Write down your goals, thoughts and action plans. Document all correspondence with him, and make a game plan.

I love walking and exercise too, it really helps. Enjoy.

I hope you find rest and peace on your journey.

I've never joined any discussion forums before. Now I know why people do. While everyone in your life knows your spouse for years think they know him, yet, here's a group of people that never met him and they know EXACYLY who he is.  If I talk about the things he's done to me, said to me, and the way he treats me, I sound like a crazy paranoid conspiracy theorist.
Now I'm at my mothers, who I haven't spoken to in 3 years because she's so mean to me.
It's kind of funny to be faced with the answer to my own question of why and how I ended up with him. He's just like my mother.
I didn't marry a guy like my dad, I married a guy like my mother.

Welcome, unfadinglife

You said that you left with the kids. Are there reasons that you took the kids with you to your mother's house rather than leaving them with your husband?

I know this is a very difficult time, and I think it is great that you are taking healthier steps now. I'm also glad that you have reached out - even if it is online. My own first steps in facing the truth were in forums where I could talk more openly about what was happening. If you have to go back, will you be safe within your home? Sometimes, when a person who has been abused starts to take definitive steps, especially ones that involve legal authorities, it becomes unsafe for them to be in their home with the person who is abusive. Is there a domestic violence shelter near your home?

In the mean time, do at least one thing that nourishes yourself each day. That was some advice that I was given by a domestic violence advocate when I was in the middle of waking up to the truth that I was living. What are the things that nourish you? When we have been discounted, minimized and ignored for so long, we forget who we are. Getting in touch with who you are and taking care of that person is part of being healthy.

He has never physically abused me. But I have put up with his emotional abuse for so long, I'm afraid I might loose it. I had to remove myself and my kids from an ugly situation. I go no where without my boys. Never spent a night away from them (except science camp and a couple of sleepovers.)  I'd never leave our kids alone with their dad. He's the worst babysitter in the world. He claims to know nothing so he does nothing. And when he gets hungry, he starts calling non stop asking when I'm coming home. When I come home starts the inquisition. Than I get the bullsh!¥ look. I defend myself over... .whatever... .and we are thrust into the same argument we are always in. And he's just as mean to the kids if and when he does interact with them.  And his tone towards all of us is as if we annoy him and his life. There is nothing I do for ME, there is nothing I could do that he wouldn't fight about or have words reasons and excuses.
This last episode of his, he crossed a line. Showed me that he is exactly what I'm afraid of. A copycat master manipulator passive aggressive BPD narcissist was who I called my husband.

This is the proper point of view.  He is responsible for doing the emotional abuse... .100%.  You are responsible for "putting up" with it or "allowing" it in your life... .100%.  That's a very "boundaries" point of view.  Looking at life that way helps you figure out who is responsible for what.  Focus YOUR energy on places where you are responsible.    In places where you are not responsible, but don't like what is going on.  Communicate clearly, in an emotionally healthy way, about your wants and then respect the choices that your partner makes.  Have self respect for the choices you make.

FF getting off the boundaries soap box now... .:)

It appears you will be going back soon and it also appears you are pretty early on in your BPD education and practice with skills.

Before you get back in his prescence... .please focus on the following lesson on invalidation.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

I'm going to take a wild guess about the last argument where you said he crossed lines and showed his true self.  And I would like to hear about that argument, so understand I am holding my guesses in a very tentative fashion.

I'm also not saying you are responsible for what he did, but I'm thinking you contributed to an unhealthy relationship dynamic.

1.  I'm betting you invalidated him (which is like adding gas to a fire).  Focus first on identifying times when you do this, and stop this practice first before trying to figure out how to validate.

2.  I would also guess there was some sort of triggering of abandonment fear.  Either by directly saying you were gone or by invalidating him when he brought up emotions around being alone.

Truth  Humans are wired for relationships.  pwBPD go about trying to get that in a very inappropriate way.  One of the ways they get healthier is to understand through actions that if you do X there is less relationship and if you do Y there is more.  Eventually, if done consistently, they are likely to model Y more.

Why does any of this matter if you are gone from the r/s? 

1.  Due to the child, there will be continued contact throughout your life.

2.  The skills you learn can apply to all of your relationships.

Hang in there... .  Looking forward to following and encouraging you on your journey to emotional health.   |iiii

FF

You sound pretty DONE with him, at least in the longer term. Your feelings may change... .or may not. But shorter term, you've got things you have to do and deal with.

I hope you are feeling a bit stronger and better... .and I have to imagine that being with your mom who has treated you similarly is also tough!


Do get good legal advice, especially if you are coming up on a deadline like that.

The folks here on the Legal/Custody board can really help a LOT. Please post there describing your situation. And get legal advice. Even if you don't want to move into a women's shelter, places like that and similar organizations are one resource for legal advice and if you don't have money for a lawyer might also refer you to something cheap/free/etc... .even if you don't want or intend to move into one. You don't have to be subject to physical abuse to qualify!


You know him. If you do go back, what is the worst you think you will have to face/deal with? How long can you handle it?

Good luck to you! you made a brave move!
Bible-study is a wise thing to do... I got out of a simular situation (apart that I was beaten-up and raped) and I had about 20 guardian angels looking over me who answered my pray that I had to get out before there were any kids.
good luck! good luck! find strenght and YES: pray!

You are all such an invaluable source of knowledge and information that I have no choice but to follow every bit of advice - whether I like it or not.
You are all so patient and understanding, two qualities I am seriously lacking these days.
Day 7 was an okay day.
I received several long winded texts trying to bait me tonight. My head was spinning with what I wanted to say (react) and all the information I've read about how to not react.  Luckily, my friend called - the only one who knows and gets it. Having a conversation of understanding really helped. Gave me the strength to not respond at all. I'll only respond about the kids. Everything else is nonsense 

FF - i was venting this morning in a new thread and talked about what led to me leaving. Not sure I made much sense.

So very important that you realized this.  How did you  respond?  Sometimes ignoring is the safest route.

As you gain skill, perhaps you will find a healthier way to respond.

Don't take the bait!

FF

My only response to the many more texts was "This is why I can not speak to you right now"
I should have gone to therapy this past week to learn skills in how to deal. I learned a lot from this site, but there's still that little part of me questioning my own sanity. Maybe I am crazy. Maybe it IS all me.
I get the keeping a notebook thing now. When my friend suggested it, I said that It's all listed in my brain. But when my brain starts to get twisted, I can't reach that list.
His anger at me taking a stand has never been to this level. I'm kind of afraid of what he'll do next because it's Un-chartered territory.

It's ok to realize that you have fear.  That is a valid emotion.  Making decisions based on fear going away... .vice an emotionally healthy decision is what has gotten you to where you are.

No... it's not all your fault.  But you ARE 100% responsible for your decisions and whether or not you use fear in your decision making process.

Response to texts:  This is where a T is excellent.  We can help some.  Here are some pointers.

Stop trying to prove or make points via text  Can you see how that your response was an attempt to get him to "see your side"?  There is way too much abuse and "bleeding" from the r/s to have this type of conversation via text... .or in person... .without somebody trained to help.

I would suggest making calls and setting up a MC or mediator... .or other kind of T where you can both be in same room and share information and communicate.  No other goals than to communicate in a healthy way. 

What you are doing via text IS NOT HEALTHY  Yes, there are far worse choices.  Perhaps you can start separate thread and post some text exchanges.  We can help you lower temp.

So, perhaps something like this.  "(name), I will be meeting with family therapist on Tuesday at 4pm, to work on a plan to heal relationships in our family.  I hope you can attend."

Try to pick a time that you know he can make it. 

Healing relationships is important, even if marriage is over.  You are still parents. 

If he doesn't attend, the FT can still help you with your kids.

FF

It's very embarrassing to post the conversations because he is saying to me the things I have always said to him and he's wording it as though someone else is reading them. So, maybe everyone should read them. By the way, he doesn't work today and is home This is his fifth long text to me this morning. Each one like this. Digs, humiliation, bait and accusations.

Him:
I know you told me that all the utilities have been paid, but I wanted to make sure we don't have any surprises.  The electrical power has been shutting off and on and it made me think to ask you again to make sure we're ok.   It turned off last night a coupe of times.    I hope you're doing fine.

Me:
Nothing is fine Russ. Nothing will ever be fine again.

Him:
I'm just glad you stopped drinking - I really didn't realize that it was that out of control.  But I get it now.    I hope by my asking you a question just now doesn't cause an argument between us.    Will you please tell me if the Pod people are coming this weekend and what time to pick up this thing.  It looks bad out there.  

Me:
Yeah. It is a shame I had to tell you myself for you to know that something was wrong. But by then, it was too late. I had already saved myself. I did not need you.  Too bad you continue to throw it in my face rather than be proud of me.  That's what a partner would do.

Him:
First off I'm proud of you, that must have taken a lot.  Again I didn't realize that it was that big of a problem.  I only thought it was a phase since you were always so against alcohol.  People were telling me that your having a problem with it, but I was defending you and saying that your just going through something right now.    I thought that it only started after you met that girl from Oklahoma, but I guess it was long before that.    I really thought you had control- but now that I think of the cigarettes, the pot and now the alcohol, it was very possible.     I'm sorry for not carrying enough to ask you, but it wouldn't have been easy discussing something like that with you.  We could hardly talk about anything.

Next him:

I distance myself from you instead of trying to work with you.  This is what I've been discussing with George over the past few months trying to understand it all.

Next him:
So has your mom been busy calling every divorce attorney in the Ventura and LA countries hoping that I won't be able to hire one if I needed to. Lol.

Next hiM:
We do need to talk about a lot of things.    Steven is one of them.  I told him that he cannot move in with us.  It's a long story he told me - your plans for him to move in and we'll buy a trailer that he can live in and make payments to us ?  What... . I didn't agree to this or know of any such thing.  He's at the house now but he had left the same day you did and I never got a thank you or a goodbye.  He just left.  And now he's back... ?   Please let him know that we have enough problems right now and that I won't have another situation like we did with everyone else that has lived with us.    Regardless what happens to us - he's not to stay here for very long.    The dogs and cats are all freaky sad and we'll need to figure that out too.    Can you please stop the food from coming through the mail.  It's still coming and I don't have much places to put it.  I'm not cooking it so just to let you know that its piling up.    Thoughts?

Next him:
Magi since you haven't responded to anything hardly - please tell me that your mom is not loading you up with pain killer Meds ?  
(My mother is an addict as well as a narcissist.)

Next ME:
Nope. I came here to clear my head.  Last place I wanted to go to but I needed to remove myself and the boys from a volatile situation.

Him;

Magi we should talk - the more time that goes by is starting to make me realize that change is good and if we're going to make it, it better be before were at a point of no return.   You haven't responded to any of my valid questions.    I've got your animals and now Steven and it's all very uneasy.  You started something and than left it to me.  I don't need more people living with me, I want less if anything.  Where are you getting money to live over there?  You should call me - I need a plan and we need to discuss one.   Thanks.

Next  text him.
Do you want to spend money on attorneys or would you consider working it out like Bobby and Rosa did?  
I need a plan - do you want to stay together and work it out between us or wait until something ugly happens.  I have zero tolerance for this kind of stuff.
Please think about what we have together, good or bad in your own eyes.  I've never asked you to do anything that I'm not willing to do myself.  
I'm not trying to upset you to making you want to call me I'm just saying don't let too much time go by because this takes two people to figure out.  I don't want to assume anything yet, but people are going to start wondering.  So far none of the family knows about anything, other than Rod Christy Binky and Brenna knows what's going on.  My parents are coming next week to pick up the car.  
Please stop with all the poor poor Magi, look what Russ has done to you, you poor thing.  I was good to you in so many ways in spite of how much you put me down to people that would listen to you.  
Don't call me screaming - talk like an adult and I promise you we can make a good plan very quickly without the drama!  Please no drama.  

My response:  
That's exactly why I can't talk to you right now.

Continued:
Him:
Then tell me right now that your still in this for the long haul or looking for the right time to walk a away.  This is all that I need for now !  But be very very honest to you and me - please.  I don't believe your getting the right help you need being at your mothers.    Remember - she wants what you have and if she can't have it she'll make sure you don't.  You are right now the clutches of a very very bad sprint - George said you need to get out of there as fast as you can.  Wakeup Magi !

Next him:
You're being completely disrespectful by not responding to anything.  This is my point - you have zero respect or appreciation for me and what you had.  To not reply to much needed questions or concerns is amazing.  You want nothing to do with marriage counseling or rehab, so what gives ?     I will not be sending or bothering you anymore.  Sorry I was just trying to reach out to you.

Me:
Just because you say things, it doesn't make it the truth.  Just because you think things, it doesn't make it reality. the more you talk, the harder you make it for me to ever think that things will ever change. 

Him:
You have my love completely !  But it's only words, I know, but that's all I have if you wouldn't hear them in the most negative light. 


Than the calls started... .

Have you guys ever done MC or any kind of family T?

He seems open.

Couple comments:

Stop arguing with him about his reality... .or yours.  He gets to think and feel... .whatever he wants.  As do you.

You are sending him some big zingers (I don't need you... .etc etc).  You need to stop that. red-flag

While they may feel satisfying... .and he may deserve them.  Relationships are not about giving the other person what they deserve

That kind of thinking puts you in the judge seat... .

Much better to look at yourself and what you bring to the r/s.

Listen:  It's obvious you are struggling with a lot of pain.  I recommend upping the self care regimen and finding a good T.  (Have you ever done T before?)

Cultivate a habit of looking to yourself to solve and deal with your pain.  Let others deal with theirs.

FF

Nothing he is saying has any truth to it. He's not open to anything unless the outcome will be what he wants it to be.
I tried MC. He wouldn't go. Said MC will just tell him he should t be with me. Then I realized that he wouldn't be honest and genuine anyway. He'd fake it till he made sure they think he's perfect and I'm an ingrate.
I read the posts in ":)etaching from the wounds of a failed BPR relationship" and I was amazed how all these people, who where likely in this thread a year ago, are all kicking themselves for wasting so much time!  Its very inspiring to read. Also, quite funny at times.

He can speak the truth... .or not.

Don't argue with him about it... .or point out the difference.  It is likely a tactic to get a reaction on his part.

Did you actually go to MC and he didn't show up?

Might be better to try family counseling to learn to be more effective parents.  Make it about the kid.

FF

Agreed. It does need to be about the kids and what's best. On things for sure, they are not ever going to see me weak again. They are not going to think that the way their father treats their mother is okay because mom will always be there to excuse it.  They won't think it's okay for dad to never spend time with them, never praise them, always point out the bad, never see good, be void of emotion, have a lack of compassion or understanding... .most importantly, not be an example as parents and partners working together towards the same goal. He will question them, use them to make a point with me, make negative comments about me in an attempt to "win them over" in some war that I DONT WANT TO BE A PART OF and I can't call a truce because when he wins, it excuses his actions.
Oh, first the excuses, THAN the denial!
My kids are 10 and 12. They are my life. No doubt about it. As hard as I have tried to not mess them up, I have. Now it's just a matter of how bad.
I will be seeking therapy as soon as I go home. Actually, Monday, I'm going to call around for a phone session. I'm starting to think I'm the one with BPR. I'm the insane one and he is perfect. I should have insisted on MC. I didn't. And I think it's too late. Therapy for me and FC for my kids and I, that right now is my number one priority. Unfortunately, I am too scared to go home now because he is raging and I am scared of what he might be capible of.
So, in the meantime, I am stuck in the desert in the middle of nowhere. It's 116 degrees outside and a meat locker temp my mother keeps the house at inside. The nearest grocery store is 20 miles away. I have every extreme emotion from terror to relief to excitement  and back to fear with some onset of confusion running through my body.  My body aches, my heart hurts, a part of me misses that dysfunctional life, a larger part wants a new one. But I don't know how to do anything in a healthy way. And I want to try to, but I'm stuck in the middle of the desert in Arizona, 400 miles away from my California home kinda afraid to go back.
I know I'm not handling any of this correctly but I wasn't raised in the healthiest environment either. I'm learning. And I'm trying. The best way I know how.

     

You are doing your best!  You have made a commitment to make your best... .better.

Keep the focus on you and what you can do to make your family better. 

FC is for the entire family... .invite him too.  Respect his choice. 

Stay away from making statements about "too late" for MC or "over".

I will agree with Grey Kitty that you sound pretty done with him.  Keep talking to us about your feelings about that.  DO NOT talk to your hubby about it. 

There is a lot for you to sort out about how you are going to live your life.  Looking forward to hearing how the phone calls go on Monday.

Focus on small steps... .healthy steps.  You don't have to figure the rest of your life out.  Just the next step.

FF