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And, so continues my journey into myself.

In my last thread, I was discussing how my codependency issues wrecked my r/s.

I think that it goes a bit deeper than though. They have kept me involved with people who are damaging to me. They have caused me to ignore red flags. They have kept me attached to a woman who does not want me, and who I really should not want. They have caused me to mistake love for comfort in the familiar.

I think that's where I'm at right now. I'm stuck in mourning a lost love that didn't really exist; it was just the feeling of comfort because it was familiar.

Tonight I'm trying to do as my T recommended and start the process of pulling away from my friend.

It's so weird, when I was in my r/s with my x, Monday nights were "my nights." They were my alone time. It was the time for me to rejuvenate and take care of things around my house that I had put off the prior week because of spending time with my x. I never felt lonely on my Monday nights. I feel lonely tonight though.

I suspect it's because I was in a r/s before. And, after the r/s I hid from my feelings by spending time with the friend. Tonight I have neither of those. Tonight, it's just me and my fears.

I have spent the better part of the day reading this wonderful blog about C-PTSD. As with these boards being the primary source of support for people who have pwBPD in their world, that blog was so awesome to read. The author has been where I am and was able to put into words exactly how I feel and what I experience. As when I found this family, knowing that I'm not actually crazy because someone else experienced the exact same thing as me was relieving.

I think that it is going to be interesting going through this transformation. It's scary. It would be so easy to just fall into old habits and hide from my painful memories of my past. To continue to ignore them as I always have. That's not really living though. I have hurt people by doing that. I don't want to hurt or hurt others anymore. I'm tired of living in shame. I want more.

Hi Meili,

What came to mind when I read your two posts was the idea of a "void".  People who were raised by dysfunctional parents may recognize as adults that ending unhealthy relationships, friendships etc. is best for them, but I think what might happen is that they fear the void or empty space where that person used to be.  Not to say that the current adult breakup doesn't hurt, it does, but I suspect that this void may also contain the real feelings (grief, anger) that were a response to being physically or emotionally abandoned by the FOO, the real tough stuff.  These are ultimately best faced and felt, but that's intense and frightening, and so then defensive thoughts and behaviours happen such as (this is mine) not wanting to let go of the person or people because of a fear that nothing better will come along.  Does that resonate with you?

Also, did you find you were able to allow or stay present with the feelings of fear and loneliness, even a little bit?  And if so, what was that experience like?

eeks

I'm not certain that I believe that someone better won't come along. I have convinced myself that no one better will come along or exists. I know that for the lie that it is, but my emotions completely ignore my logic on this matter. To take it step further, I've managed to convince myself that I don't want anyone better to exist.

What's worse, I have also convinced myself that if she did come along, I'd screw it up, ignore it, run away scared, or in some other manner sabotage it before it even began.

Putting myself out there to be rejected has never been easy for me. That's probably why I always end up with woman who are abusive. Then engage me. They chase me. They show that I won't get rejected. Well, until they reject me of course.

But, yes, there is a terribly painful void that I experience. It's one of those types of painful experiences where you really think that death would be a better option and enduring. But, knowing that it will pass and that there are ways to avoid it help with that. And, by that, I don't mean that I get suicidal.

There is a complete and utter sense of worthlessness also. The whole series of thoughts that go with "I'm alone because no one wants to be with me because I'm not good enough... ." Again, my logical mind knows better, but the inner child disagrees.

It was semi-interesting to me that recently I was willing to face the loneliness and void because that pain was far worse than the pain of losing my x. I spent a week alone, and I would have continued down that path if I thought that it went to reconciliation. What I discovered though is that it was the hope of reconciliation that was providing strength to endure rather than my own desire to not have to deal with the fears anymore. When the hope was removed, I reverted right back to past coping mechanisms.

I could very easily avoid the fears all together and jump into another r/s. That isn't what I want though. So, this has created a strange dynamic for me; a kind of triangle. I want to avoid the fears, but I don't want to do so by being in a r/s. I don't want to be alone because of the fears. I want to reconcile, but I cannot because my most readily available coping mechanism is the thing that destroyed the hope of reconciliation. I find the whole thing pretty twisted.

I've tried to sit with the feelings. I really don't recognize any feelings except extreme panic. I cannot figure out where the panic comes from though. I'm certain that it's FOO issues. I'm certain that it has to do with being locked in a room while my mother did whatever it was that she did. But, that's really as far as I can get with it. I also find it interesting that I believe that the only person who can soothe the pain/fear is my x. I know that to be an untruth because I frequently felt lonely when in the same room with her.

Hi Meili,

Regarding the extreme panic you mentioned... .I believe that the neglect you mentioned has a big deal to do with the panic. How you describe that you believe your x would be the one to soothe you but that you often felt distant when with her gives me the idea that is the source of your panic. You were never properly soothed, at all it sounds, and you want that from your x. Even though you felt distant, you may have been able to feel slight comfort that at least she was present, or actually gotten soothed by her at times. Now that no one is there, you don't know how to soothe yourself and are unable to get that comfort from another so you start to panic, like you probably did when left alone. Does that sound at all likely? If not, I'm sorry. I don't presume to know you, just thinking out loud here. =)

Sincerely,

Purekalm

That's spot on PK.

There were many things about my childhood and FOO abuses that my x did soothe. I felt a calm with her that I've never experienced before or since. Unfortunately, that calm was not consistent and was ultimately ripped from me as punishment. I know that sounds a bit melodramatic, but that's the way that it feels. My T assures me that over time I'll be able to provide myself with things that my x provided. I'll be able to meet my own needs and make myself feel safe.

Meili,

I agree with your therapist. Slow going but possible. It won't be the same as another person comforting you, because that's impossible to do yourself. Though, it is possible to learn to comfort yourself. I know personally that it doesn't take away the longing I get here and there just to be held and comforted and feel my emotions with someone there, but it does heal the panicked urge to be soothed by another. Sometimes I think that just being realistic is hard, but necessary to grow and leave our negative or backwards thinking we learned form our FOO.

I was always the one comforting everyone in my family so I thought it was finally my turn in my relationship, but no such luck for me. If there ever is a next time for me, I know now to choose wisely. =)

Sincerely,

Purekalm

I trust my T a lot. I know that people learn to self-soothe and self-validate, I'm hoping to have a better understanding of these soon.

It's really hard to self-soothe when you are in an almost constant state of stress; when you feel that it's you against the world.

I just realized something as I'm typing this; I've replaced the drama from my r/s with drama over the r/s! More specifically, drama about my wanting the r/s back. Everyone in my real world thinks that I'm nuts for wanting my x back. Even people on these boards give grief for wanting a pwBPD back. It pits me against them; it creates stress and strife. Stress and strife, even though they are painful, are familiar and thus far more comfortable than the unknown. I think that I'm going to have to examine that a bit deeper.

My T tells me that my wanting to reconcile so much is really just my wanting to prove that my mother has been wrong for all of these years and that I am worth something. That if I can win my x back, I'll feel, somehow, vindicated.

I don't know if that is true or not. I guess that the deeper that I go into all of this, the more that I'll understand.

Meili,

I get what you're saying. I've hesitated quite a bit to even post here for the same reasons. I've been all over thinking about my own relationship and even when it's actually ending, you can't help but wonder what if? What if they would just do what you feel they can do if they just tried? Maybe even what you saw before? Your heart is breaking and your mind is telling you it's not possible and then other people treat you like you're stupid instead of realizing you're in a really bad situation and can't make sense of it all. It complicates the situations further when you add the disordered history of our FOO and how that relates to your feelings and the r/s.

I think that might have something to do with it. The few short times in my life that were not ruled by stress and constant crazy were difficult for me to navigate because I've lived with it so long I didn't know how to live life without it!

It is a possibility. It's one of the reasons I've held onto my husband so long. Somehow I screwed it up and in so doing the breakdown is my fault, even though my brain tells me that's a lie, my heart and conditioning has a hard time accepting that. Almost like accepting the end of the r/s is accepting I wasn't and never will be good enough for anybody. It didn't help with him never being honest and not telling me what it was he really wanted, which wasn't me, unless he needed me, lol Mess, mess, mess.

At least you're thinking about this and actively helping yourself through this by realizing these things. I think you're going a long way toward healing. =)

Sincerely,

Purekalm

Thank you PK. Actually admitting some of the things that I've had to admit has been hard. But, it's been good for me.


I'm actually learning to let go of the "what if's." If for no other reason they are a distraction. But, the main reason that I'm letting them go is that it creates manipulation. It is my trying to control the situation rather than living it.



Most people in my world have little to know idea about my history, and they certainly don't know the extent of it!

But, yes, like you, life without the stress and chaos has been hard for me. The few moments of calm that I allow in now aren't that bad. It's prolonged periods of time without the craziness that throw me for a loop. It'll get better though.


I think that many (if not most!) of us here can relate to that.


I went through that. Wondering why I wasn't good enough for someone who treated me so poorly at times. I've come to realize that I wasn't good enough because I didn't believe that I was good enough. I had been conditioned my entire life to believe that was the truth of the matter. But, when I took a step back and looked at my entire life, all the lives that I've touched, all of the things that I've done, all of the people who have come into my world and stayed here; I can see a completely different picture.

You're welcome Meili.  :)

I agree. I tell myself and sometimes others that the truth hurts, but I'd rather know the truth than live the same way and never grow or become a better person.

Ah control, I tried the same. If only I could fix it, but some things are not meant to be fixed by me and instead lived through.

It does get better. I have found the more calm I am within the less the crazy or lack of affects me. I rely on God for that, he's always been my rock through the storms and held me together when I threatened to unravel.

That's so awesome you can look back and see that Meili! It lets you know, without any validation from another, that you have value and worth and this difficult process you're going through now is worth it, because you know now that you have worth, you're valuable. =) I can't help but be glad for you! I love it when others are succeeding in life, especially healing.

As one of my sisters would say "Keep on truckin!" =)

Sincerely,

Purekalm

Finding my voice and letting go of trying to control situations has been an incredibly enlightening experience. I have been able to see just how much I caved into the demands, or what I perceived were demands sometimes, of others in an effort to control the situation and thus protect myself. It has been quite unsettling actually.

But, learning to say "no" and express my discontent with something has certainly done wonders for my self-esteem.

It's somewhat amazing how establishing and enforcing boundaries, having some self-respect, and stopping people from doing bad things to you can cause them to leave your life rather quickly.

This has been a real eye-opener for me. It has answered questions about people who have been in my life for years that I've often wondered. Also, it explains why I spent so much time in my past feeling used.

At the end of the day, these people leaving my life has been a boon. Sure, there is now a large vacancy, but it has also taught me to trust myself a bit more. I have also learned the effects of martyring myself for the happiness of others.

That's great Meili!  :)   I realized the same thing and that, like you, I'm the only one who changes that.    :)

Sincerely,

Purekalm

It's been a long time since I have posted in this thread.

For the past several months, I have been working on myself and saving my relationship with my x. It has been a fascinating journey and learning experience. Now that it seems that the journey with my x is finally completely over and our paths have gone in different directions, I can reflect on all of it.

The unofficial diagnosis from my therapist that I'm on the Autism spectrum (Asperger's) was a huge revelation for me. It helped me understand why I have struggled so hard to change my habits and to let go of the relationship even after I knew that it needed to end.

Even after I decided that it was time for it to end and that I was not going to accept what she was offering anymore, I watched as I continued avoid the changes. Even this morning, I don't want to face the changes. I'm happy that I made the choice to give up hope that I could salvage the relationship, but the thoughts of the changes that are happening make me want to go running back to the bad situation. I'd rather have the toxicity than the NC just so that I don't have to deal with the change.

I decided that it was a far better plan to post here and admit the truth of what is going on than to contact her just to maintain the status quo. That's all that it would be. I don't want a relationship with her. I'm not even interested in being her friend. In fact, I'd be completely happy if she just evaporated. It's the change that I'm stuck on.

Over the past week, it feels like my life has improved exponentially. Since I have removed her from my future plans, everything seems to be progressing and falling into place. But, I know that there's a chance that I'd throw myself right back into all of it just to avoid the change. I'm glad that I now know this for what it is.

Are you still in this place, Meili? It won't surprise you that I completely identify. This is a hard part of the journey. I am still white knuckling it.

I have been dancing in and out of wanting to break NC just to avoid the changes since I made that post. It's getting better as I develop my new life. But, I had something else happen to me (my BPDexw contacted me) that has also helped to reduce the craving for the drama, so take that with a truckload of salt.

Before my exw contacted me, every time it would enter my mind that I wanted to contact my x, I would consciously focus on something else. Most of the time, it was thinking of the number 1 on breathing in and 2 on exhaling. I'd do this until my thoughts were focused.

They still pop into my head, but in the greater scheme of given the short time period since everything ended, it happens less now.

Ahhh... .so, it's been over four months since I last posted here. I've been silent on this thread because, well, there has not been a lot of new stuff to talk about here. I've basically just been altering my behavior so that I do not respond/react out of emotion. Changing the behaviors has changed the emotions as a result.

When I last posted here, I was talking about avoiding change because the toxicity of my life was familiar and all that I have ever known, but the desire to change that.

Over the past few weeks, my life has been thrown back into a world of chaos. I am so accustomed to it that I didn't even notice at first. It wasn't until I found myself wanting to reach out to my x and checking social media for images of her that I realized just how far I have allowed things to slip.

I started to look at what going on in my world. I've been allowing others to dictate what I do with my time and where I go. I was maintaining chaotic and toxic relationships and putting forth all of the effort to try to improve them. Essentially, I have been doing all of the things that I have always done in my romantic relationships in other, important relationships in my life. As a result, I've done one of the hardest things that I've ever had to do... .I walked away from my MC (motorcycle club).

Because the MC life is a subculture of society, I'm going to assume that most people don't understand the ramifications of walking away. It's like trying to leave a cult. The remaining members of the cult (in this case the MC) are really not happy when you leave. Sometimes it creates a dangerous situation. I'm hoping that isn't the case here.

It was so hard to walk away because I, essentially, walked away from all of my friends and family (my chosen family, not my FOO) and find myself almost alone in the world now (I have a two close friends and whatever relationship it is that I have with my ex-wife left). I think that many of us can relate to these feelings of being alone and isolated when they left their BPD relationship.

I'm not writing this about those emotions however. They are what they are. I am writing about being able to better recognize the red flags and warning signs about what is happening in my world, and the conscious decisions that I am making to facilitate change.

I've been watching and reliving so many childhood experiences as my mother, father, and siblings dictate how my 93 year old, extremely ill grandmother spends her remaining time on the planet. She nearly died a few weeks ago and my FOO took the opportunity to "pounce" and dictate life changes for her. They have entered her house without her permission, started to go through her things in an effort to determine how much money she truly has, are making plans to dispose of her belongings without her consent, and are putting extreme pressure on her to do what they want to do. As I witness all of this, I am reminded of all of the abuse and neglect I have endured because of them.

It was weird. I was talking to my xw not too long ago about what my family is doing to my grandmother and my feelings behind all of it. My C-PTSD and the reasons behind it came up. This was the first time that she had heard any of it. She was shocked (to say the least) and disgusted by my FOO. She couldn't believe that she once called them family and sat down at the same table with them to eat. The validation from the women who split me black a decade ago and truly believed that I was a monster until a few months ago nearly brought me to tears. As I write this now, those feelings are surfacing.

The MC also brought back old memories. When new members to the MC were recently patched in and started acting like the women that have been in my life a lot was triggered. I watched as the red flags flew all over the place. It started to affect the personalities of the patch holders. I tried to bring things back under control, when I realized that it was a futile endeavor, I walked away from the whole thing before things ended in violence.

It was nice being able to see and recognize the red flags for what they were.

As I write this, I am fascinated by both how far I've come and how little some things have changed. This post is a bit of a ramble because it's basically and emotional brain dump that resembles things that I used to write when I first landed here.

Hey again Meili,  :)


It's ok, I think all of us ramble at some point. I find it helps sometimes to get it written/typed down whether you send it out or not so you can get it out of your head.

I have an inkling about how it felt to leave your MC since being in a toxic family like mine. It's not easy at all, especially after the life you've lived. You've really done a lot of hard work to get to this place. 

Look at it this way, you have two more friends than me.  :)  The last friend I had was in middle school. I personally believe it's better to have a few good ones than a bunch of flaky ones.   (No, I didn't end the friendship. We drifted apart because there was a grease fire in his home and they had to transfer to another district and we lost touch.)

Anyone who has followed your story can see how far you've come. I know I'm not the only one who has been helped by you sharing your story, so thank you.

Purekalm

Hi again PK! 

Thank you for the kind words. Sometimes I forget that healing and growth are not linear; but, rather, a spiral that gets larger over time. Because the arc of the spiral is expanding, tend to not stay in the bad parts as long.

I have found myself struggling with the "not good enough" feelings all week. As a result, I've been hiding from the world and ignoring my friends. I feel bad about that. They stood up for and by me with the MC and exposed themselves to the same dangers. I should reach out to them, and will when I recover.

During this time, I'm digging deeper into what is behind those feelings. It's very easy to say that they result from my FOO. In fact, that's a wholly true statement. But, what exactly was it that my FOO did to instill this belief within me, and why do I continue to hold it even in light of empirical evidence to the contrary?

The thing is, I do not conform to their ideals and have not accepted the uniforms and roles that others have handed to me. Simple things like buying a white Indian motorcycle when almost everyone in my world rides a black Harley (I do own a black Harley also btw, I just choose not to ride it anymore). Facing the scorn and ridicule because I wear my helmet and safety gear while they just wear their vests for "the look" rather than protection. This makes me "uncool" or whatever. Funny thing there is that I can actually ride better than any of them and put more miles on my bike in a month than some put in a year. This makes me the outcast. "Not good enough" because I don't conform to their ideals. What a strange concept.

Behind all of that, the reason that the "not good enough" affects me so much is likely from the neglect I suffered at the hands of my original caregivers. Middle-aged and still trying to fit in in hopes of finding the love that was withheld from me as a child.

When that love is shown to me, I push it away and reject it. Like, the woman that I have been seeing loves me for who I am. She completely accepts everything about me. She is fascinated by the paradox that is me: a biker, a philosopher, a scientist, a theologian, a legal scholar, a criminal, an adventure seeker, a politician, a scared little boy trapped in a man's body. Yet, I push her away and reject her love.

All this begs the question: For whom am I not good enough?

The MC as a sub-culture/club/almost-cult makes breaking out of it a special challenge, and not quite like one I've been through.

That said, it sounds like you are finding something not too uncommon--you were in a romantic r/s where you were treated really badly. You got out and realized you didn't deserve that treatment.

Now you are examining other friendships/relationships in your life and finding that the poor treatment happens in other places as well. And now you have to deal with that too.

  You will get past this one too. And you will figure out which friendships are healthy. Or at least healthier than others in your life. And you will find better ones, or improve the ones you have.

It's kinda funny that you used the word "deserve" GK. As I left therapy today, my therapist told me that I deserve better.

I struggle with that word. I was brought up to believe that I deserve nothing. And, by nothing, I mean nothing. I don't deserve to be alive. I don't deserve love. I don't deserve kindness. I don't deserve affection.

I just looked at my therapist and said, "Meh... ." (literally said that   )

She smiled and said, "You pay me for my professional opinion, and pay well. You're a great guy, and you do deserve better. That's my professional opinion."

The concept of my deserving anything is very difficult for me. Not only is there no emotional connection to the word, there is no cognitive nor logical reason that I can see that I deserve anything.

Yeah, the word "deserve" is a sticky one in a bunch of ways. I had some real issues with my stbex where she felt she "deserved" something and it got kinda ugly where things went from there.

Not that somebody raised the way you were is at any risk of getting onto the entitled side like that.

Anyhow, words are funny. Is it easier to say that you are worth more than that? That you are worth being treated well?

Yeah, words are tricky.

Worth is acceptable to me because it's subjective, rather than objective, in nature. The value that one assigns is not necessarily the value that another assigns. Subjective has an emotional component. It's impossible to debate emotions.

I've spent a great deal of time lately trying to figure out what it is, exactly, that I found so attractive about my ex that brought me here.

For nearly a year now, my therapist and I have discussed the similarities between my abusive mother and my chosen mates. I can see that. I can understand that the familiarity was comfortable for me.

I can also state with some level of confidence that the mirroring and the physical looks played a part.

At some level or another, each of my chosen partners fall within the same category or type. So, what was it that made this one so different? Why was she the only one that I was ever truly interested in spending my life with? Why is it she that I continue to think about daily?

She was not the only disordered person that has been my significant other, so that wasn't it. Others have treated me about the same as she did. The interests that we shared that were similar are present in others with whom I've been involved, so those aren't the key either. What she provided for me has also been given to me by others. All things being relative, she was pretty much the same as the others in my past.

So, what was it? This has been bothering me for a while now. What is it that I miss so much that I have only found in her? What is it that I crave when I wake in the morning that is now missing from my world?

I've been looking at my life and the things that she did and provided for me and have figured out how to replicate them without her. But, something is still missing.

It is her energy. It was her bubbling, optimistic, enthusiasm that I found so alluring and attractive. That's the thing that I have not been able to replicate on my own.

I've been in a state of existential crisis and depression since my early teens. Nothing seems to matter because after all is said and done, the moment after death, all that has happened in my life will be pointless to me because there will be no more me. So, why bother?

For over 30 years now, I've basically just gone through life waiting until death. There was a brief, 2 year period when I was with her that death wasn't a focus. Things had importance and meaning.

The irony of it is that I still didn't think that I had importance or meaning, I would still cease to exist someday and it would all go away from that perspective. But, during those two years, the ultimate end didn't matter.

It was a constant flow of energy and optimism during that period of my life. Things that I never would have put effort into because they ultimately wouldn't matter were suddenly worth the effort. Because my life would be over at some point became less relevant and the partnership with her became important.

It's strange to look at it all now and see both the good and the dysfunction. It's hard for me to grasp the idea that something that was so bad for me also gave me the greatest gifts that I've ever received. I've never really processed the anger that I have toward her because of this. How can I be so angry with someone who gave and showed me so much?

I'm curious to see how all of these thoughts play out in my future. How can someone who is, essentially, incapable of feeling optimistic about the future because of my preoccupation with the fact that the my future is finite and nothing actually matters attract and maintain a relationship with someone on the opposite end of that spectrum?

It's interesting to note that she too believed that there was nothing after the moment of death. That didn't seem to matter to her in the same way that it does me though. Even with all of her self-loathing, even the simplest things brought her joy. I envy that in her.

There are often toxic patterns we are replicating with an ex like that, and there is work to get around them. Especially things like how they have similar bad behavior to a parent... .but that isn't what you are talking about here:


I don't think my outlook on life is quite as dark as yours, but I do have friends (including stbexwife) who are perky, joyful, energetic, even bubbly, and of those things, I'm sometimes joyful or energetic, but have never been described as perky or bubbly.

And I do value friends who have that kind of energy. I thrive around it. I've got the capacity to make some of these joyful, energetic ideas happen with the person who has the idea, and that is often great fun and a great result.

Anyhow, I'm wondering what this revelation means to you. I could view it in one of two directions:

1. You have a huge void, lacking energy, and desperately need a partner to fill that. (Sounds unhealthy)

2. You truly enjoy and appreciate being around people like that, and should look for friends and/or a lover who is energetic like that. (Sounds healthy)

Oh, yeah, I've definitely replaced one toxic relationship with another over the years. But, you're right, that's not the part that I was talking about.

The latter option is definitely what I'm looking at.

I don't really see a void in my life. There isn't anything that I think needs to be filled.


"But, if there's nothing to be filled, then why the craving?" becomes the salient question. I think that's because I don't want a person so much as the energy and optimism. Those aren't things that someone can necessarily give me. Those must come from within. To be certain, I can feel off another's energy, but I should still be able to create my own.

My therapist is of the opinion that the first step there is to find something to believe in and work toward. Relish in the small achievements along the way and all that.

Hi Meili,

I wanted to say how much your words moved me. I agree that "all who wander are not lost". You sound so much like someone very dear to my heart. As I read your words tears came to my eyes. It was like listening to his voice right in the room with me. Thank you for that. It was a bitter sweet memory to be sure.   Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feeling with such eloquence and candour. You will find your way, and on the coolest motorcycle around no less. Indians rock. I hope you will continue to post as your words spoke to me and helped me understand many of my own emotions. Keep wearing that safety gear and perhaps I will see you out there somewhere on that white Indian. 

Thank you for the kind words and reassurance hope2727, they mean a great deal to me.

In four days, I'll be leaving for a 3000ish mile motorcycle ride that will last for about six days total. Along the way, I'll be camping in several US national and state forests. The wind therapy should do me some good.

An interesting by-product of preparing for the trip has happened: rumination.

For the past week, as I plan the route and what I'll need to take, I have been reminded of all of the fun that my x and I had doing things like this (albeit on a much smaller level). It made me miss her greatly. All of the wonderful thoughts of how we did things have been swirling around my mind mixed with sadness. The turbulence that is created resembles a Van Gogh painting... .

While all of that has been going on, I've been feeling sorry for myself for losing the good parts of her. Let's face it, they do have their good as well as the bad, that's part of why we get so attached. But, the thing is, I now realize that I'm angry that she took all of that away from me by choosing to engage in so much of the bad. I'm now comfortable with the fact that I am allowed to be angry about how she treated me.

As with so many things that have to do with my x, I've taken the what has happened and made it into a benefit to myself (after all, if we all and accept it, our pwBPD give us a very precious gift!). Sure, I'm sad that I miss the good things that she brought into my world, but I now realize that I've learned a great deal from her and I can do the things that she used to do myself. Things like planning menus and meals for trips. I don't need her to do that for me. I can take what she taught me and improve on it even!

Another great thing that has come from all of the memories over the past week is that I've discovered just how much I love myself and how deserving (yep GK, I used that word!) and worthy I am. I love myself enough to step away from those people in my world that are toxic and abusive. I love myself enough to do the hard work in therapy (with a therapist, not on the bike) to grow and do things differently in the future so that I have a better life.

It fascinated me when I had this realization yesterday. My old habit of telling myself that I was wrong and finding ways to "prove" to myself that I am not deserving, worthy, or lovable didn't happen. I came up with nothing that told me that I was wrong. I can't even find any real way to dispute my new position on myself (not that I really want to of course, so don't help with that!).

Not too long ago, I would have been upset that I couldn't share all of this with my x. Now, I'm glad that I don't feel a need to do so.

Meili, interesting reflections. Thank you for posting them. I think the tough part is that, even if we don't NEED the other person, the truth is, it's more fun to plan meals and adventures and live little odd moments together with someone else. Our hearts know this and it's not fully satisfactory to do it just for ourselves. Which just makes the choice to forego those connections because of their other limitations and corruptions/damaging aspects that much harder--because we really are losing something, aspects of which are very worth having. The grieving because it IS worthwhile in significant part, is very hard work.

Hi PnC! 

I guess that I should point out that I'm not taking this trip by myself. The woman that I have been seeing is also going. Her involvement is what made me start to realize all of this. She is doing, essentially, everything that my x used to do with regard to planning a trip. My response to her is completely different than it was to my x though. That's what made me start to examine what is going on.

I was watching the new woman go through the same types of steps that my x went through, so I just assumed that is what brought up the memories. But, then, when I started to miss my x rather than be grateful for the person who standing in front of me, I decided that I needed to take a closer look at it all.

Out of all of this, I have also discovered that part of my fascination and attraction to my x results from her being a puzzle that I'll never be able to solve. This breaks down into a few parts; one being the familiar delusion that I'm not good enough because I cannot know the unknowable. My innate curiosity kicks in and I start to, habitually, search for answers.

Another thing that came to the forefront of my attention because of all of this is my need for high sensations. According to my therapist, I'm an adrenaline junkie. She believes that it is because I spent my formative years with my FOO in chaos and under constant stimulation. As a result, I seek it out now... .I run to intense, chaotic situations.

Anyway, so I'm watching the new woman do all of the wonderful things that my x used to do, but I felt nothing as a result. I just kept missing my x. But, it isn't the x that I miss, it's the intensity and energy.

Interesting. Yes; I'm familiar with the empty/blank feeling inside in response to a new potential partner doing the things that we might have said we wanted. It makes me wonder if my relationship receptors are just too fried now. And other reflections.

My conclusion is that I do miss my ex, himself, as a person. He was that interesting to me before he started to be an unsolvable puzzle :) though I know what you mean about that, too.

Unfortunately, his spectacular good aspects come attached to dynamics I can't participate in without betraying myself. He used to call it "tragic" and I guess I am now going to agree. It is tragic. I used to reject that because if you see a tragedy right in front of you about to unfold, you should avoid it ... .But I don't think we can. I am me, he is him, they don't work together. But under all the admitted temptation to solve puzzles, soothe past hurts by not allowing this to fall apart, any injury in me that caused me to care more than made sense on the merits ... .I do miss him, the actual him.

Your analysis of what is going on for you and your ability to look dispassionately at your emotions is always illuminating. Thank you for the good example!

Yeah, I hear ya PnC; not all was bad. There was a lot of good that came with my x as well. I think that's one of the things that keeps us hooked. I used to think that she showed me who I wanted to be. What I later discovered was that she showed me who I could be.

During the idealization phases, she was my biggest cheerleader and I accomplished more in my life that I actually wanted to accomplish than I ever had before. I was amazed as I watched myself doing things that I had only dreamed of in the past. It was so energizing! The more I did, the more energy I had. Businesses got started. New motorcycles were purchased (for those that don't know me, saying that motorcycles are a HUGE part of my life is an understatement), trips were taken, things seen, people met, and all sorts of other things that I never would have dared prior to meeting my x.

What's really cool about all of that is that it wasn't her... .she didn't do those things... .she didn't even facilitate them. She simply idealized me by showing me the me that I wanted to see. Now that I know that what I was seeing was a reflection of myself, I know that I am capable of all of those things and I don't need anyone else to do them for me. I don't need someone to give me permission, and I don't need someone to tell me that I'm capable.

Another interesting byproduct of this has been noted; I still want to share all of these things with my x because I still want her to be proud of me. I still long to show those who abused me in my past that I am capable and good enough. My wanting to share each new discovery (whether internal or some place that I go or thing that I see or experience) with either my uBPDexgf or my dBPDexw is simply because I want them to be proud of me, the things that I've accomplished and all that goes with it.

In the past, I would have argued that the best revenge is success. In the case of these two woman (and, if I'm honest with myself, I can throw my mother in the mix), I'm not sure that I'll ever feel successful. I fear that I will forever be chasing the dream of doing something that makes them reach out to me and tell me that they are proud to have had me in their lives.

That's a good realization, and a similar one is hitting me too.

I've been focusing my life on working on my boat and sailing it, which was something I shared with stbexwife, and then did on my own (successfully) in the aftermath of our breakup. I've been depressed, and fallen into a rut and gotten stuck for a few months on it right now, and what's really interesting for me is how I felt about my life and stbexwife's judgement of it.

When I was with stbexwife, we had a LOT of control battles over this stuff, and as I developed a backbone and boundaries against the abuse, the outcome of some of the battles changed, but they still underlied things.

When I was succeeding at it, I wanted to enjoy my success, and kept quiet about it around her. My excuse was that I didn't want to talk up the boat when assigning a value to it as part of our separation was still an unresolved conflict, and I didn't want to work against my own interests in the negotiation. I think the truth was that it was MY success, and I didn't really want to share it with her, as I didn't trust her, and was semi-afraid that I would lose myself or some part of me to her if I opened up to her.

Now I'm not succeeding at it, by my own definition, and ESPECIALLY, by her definition, and I feel ashamed of myself, and don't trust her to be gentle with me while I'm in this state.

I've been separated for a couple years now, and I've successfully fought the urge to share my successes and my failures with stbexwife. It gets easier to fight, but it doesn't go away. Perhaps I'm lucky that I don't spend time in person with her very often.

Thanks for reminding me to think about all this.


I hear ya. And yeah, I've got patterns that go back to my mother, and school as well. In my case, I'm not quite sure I can articulate what it is that I want / what I'm chasing. It isn't quite as you put it though. Perhaps because my parents did treat me well, at the surface, and the deeper level was one where they simply weren't available much beyond physical support for me, so I'm having trouble saying what I missed out on or what I'm seeking that I can't seem to find.

Well, today I heard from the x that brought me to these boards for the first time since I ended things nearly six months ago. I'm going to assume that it was a fishing expedition to find out if I have her blocked and still have any pictures of her. But, I'm not writing this about the contact, I'm writing about my response to it.

I'm not sure what I expected would happen if I ever heard from her again, but when I first saw her name pop-up to let me know I had an email, I felt sick to my stomach. I responded to her and was friendly and cordial.

The whole thing made me a bit uneasy. It was a reminder of what our relationship was actually like (as opposed to the rose-tinted visions that dance through my mind from time to time).

Part of me wanted to chat with her to find out how her life is going, the other part just wanted to ignore her. Trying not to give in to impulsivity either way, I took the middle road and, as I said, responded in a nice way.

For about 3 minutes after the exchange, I found myself wanting to hear more from her. That faded though and I became relieved that it was over. It was a reminder of how far I've come, but also how far I still have to go in my healing process.

Hey again Meili,


I completely understand how you feel here. I have the same experiences when something reminds me of my childhood as well as the rare times the ex contacts me to talk to our son. It's like our own bodies are revolting at having contact that caused us so much duress/pain.


This is great! It's always nice to see when you're moving forward, even if you're not where you want to be yet. I'm glad you keep coming back to the boards and updating us. It's awesome to see in real time the effects of posting, getting help and working it all out in your life. I too, every once in a while, want to know how things are, but I don't act on it and I'm glad that I don't because like you, I know exactly where that path would lead.

  Meili

Purekalm

  PK!

I still post about things that are going on in my world as they have to do with my relationships and recovery from things. Fortunately, most of the time, there is little to nothing to write about.

Understanding the what's and why's behind it all has been a big help to me. Like, since I posted yesterday, I've spent far more time than I want to admit thinking about the conversation; wondering what was actually behind it on both sides; and what, if anything, I want to do in regards to my x now. Because I understand that all of this is wrapped up in self-esteem issues (still wanting to feel that I'm "good enough" where she is concerned), I am able to practice self-compassion (I am not beating myself up for having the desire to believe that I'm "good enough" for her). It allows me understand that the desire that I have to continue to communicate with her at this point is rooted in the "good enough" thoughts.

That being said, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I still miss the good things about my x. That's what I'm struggling with today.

It's really sad. From an outside perspective, I have a very good life and almost everything that I want. About a year from now, I'll be leaving on an adventure that entails my dream job. I have friends and people who truly care about me. I live in a comfortable house with almost all of the material possessions that I want. Yet, I still long for my x and the good parts.

There are days that I wonder if I would go back to tolerating the bad treatment and the lack of commonalities between us in order to have the good parts again? I remind myself that she isn't the only woman on the planet who has those good parts. Sometimes it settles the thoughts, sometimes not.

Hey Meili,


I hear you! It's always good when the general atmosphere isn't riddled with chaos and drama.  :)


I can see that. At least you recognize this and have been able to not act on it.


I think it's normal to miss the 'good things' here and there. I mean, especially with those of us who don't have a whole lot of good memories to go around. I myself have just been going through this this week with my mom, of all people, constantly mentioning my ex and so it made me think of him eventually and there was definitely a longing for the few 'good things'. I won't act on it in any way, but I understand how you feel.   

It's good to know you have a way to try and bring yourself to the present and accept that the good can't come without the bad. Besides the fact that you are happy without her. For me, I know he was a person in pain and couldn't figure himself out though I tried my best to help him. I take that into consideration, but, he hurt me very deeply and our son and though I forgive him I will not put myself back in that situation in any way. I may not have a pinch of what you have, but I can't do it. Also, please don't beat yourself up because you do have 'almost everything that you want' and are still thinking of the good things. It happens. You're being real and honest, showing your emotion while also being rational and logical in the realization that she's not the only one who has those good parts. 

Purekalm

The past few days have been really hard to keep focused on my future and release my past. I have some big things happening right now (more on that in the future, I promise) and, while incredibly exciting, they have caused me a lot of stress and anxiety.

This has caused old habitual thinking to rear it's ugly head. A lot of self-doubt and negative self-talk has been going on. Things like, "What makes you think that you can do that?" Words that my younger self heard far too often from those who were supposed to be my caretakers. I'm doing my best to soothe my inner child and let Little Meili know that he's unique, strong and capable of more than they ever gave me credit for.

That, combined with stuff going on at work that has been a slap-in-the-face reminder of my life with my x not that long ago, have created a dark place for me.

Add to that, my friends feeling compelled to continue to talk to me about my x and tell me about her current goings on and relationship, my depression has shown up again. Struggling with it all... .but making it through.

It's interesting to find out that my x is still keeping tabs on me. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Mostly, I don't care; but it also makes me sad.

Change... .discomfort and self doubt. They always seem to come together. But you are here, you have documented your progress exceedingly well - and only fools never doubt themselves in such situations. Freeze, unfreeze, refreeze. Meili can do it, has done it, and has shown the way to many others. How many people can say that? And your ex finds you fascinating enough to keep tabs on you, instead of relegating you to the dust heap of time. These factors all seem to point to real success, real development. Old habitual thinking is just that, old and habitual... and you even realise this? Impressive. And you publish your thoughts about it on here? What more can I say?
This combining the past with the present is something I am struggling with at the moment, but I feel it has to be done - you can't forget or ignore the past and you have to incorporate it into your picture of yourself now... and what you will become in the future. Accept what has happened, accept what it has made you, and accept it is going to influence you to some extent in the future. For me, it feels very uncomfortable - going back to my old patterns of thinking and behaving seems much easier.
Congratulations, Meili. And thank you for letting us accompany you a bit of the way.

Thank you for the kind words FD. They mean a great deal to me and help me cope with my struggles. 

I agree, the old habits are easier. They don't require strength or work. I'm noticing something now though. By trying to change my old habits, my entire life is changing. The things that I've learned with the bpdfamily have truly caused my life to morph into something that I never thought it could be.

I post to people all of the time about how what is discussed around here changes all of their relationships. I didn't quite grasp the extent of what that meant until the past few days. When I look at where I was, and what I saw as the only possibility for my future and juxtapose that with all of the amazing possibilities that I are before me today, I truly look at it with awe.

I have gone from wishing that I was dead, being in a relationship with someone that I didn't like (and fighting passionately to have that relationship) because I didn't think that I could have anything better, and believing that I would never have anything because I wasn't worth anything; to believing in myself, developing friendships with people who wanted me as their friend not the whatever woman I was dating, and seeing the world as a great opportunity for adventure.

Learning to be empathetic and validate landed me a job offer yesterday for, quite literally, twice what I'm currently earning. I'm not sure what to do with that given my depressed state.

I will also say that learning to pay attention myself has proven infinitely useful. I know that I'm depressed right now, so I can work on that and don't have to be all freaked out when something that causes me stress happens.

All of you who have read my posts, shared your journeys with me, and helped me along the way have been incredible. I've learned so much from you all. Thank you.

    

If you decide you'd like to talk about it in a thread, we're here for you. 

heartandwhole

Thanks H&W, I know that you guys are. You all have helped me through so much. Anyone who has read my threads probably knows that I have little trouble talking about how I feel.

I think that the depression is primarily chemical rather than emotional right now. As I've said, I have a great life with only first world problems. I want for almost nothing. I have people making incredible job offers to me, the chance to take an amazing journey, and someone in my life who truly loves me.

The last one is part of the source of my problem as of late however; I feel trapped in a relationship that does not fulfill me. Here's the kicker with that though, and my T and I have talked about this many times, I'm not fulfilled because the relationship is calm, slow, and steady. It's so different from any relationship that I've ever had, it makes me uncomfortable.

This, in turn, triggers my "not good enough" problem. My mind asks, "Why can't you just be happy with what you have? What's wrong with you?"

When that got combined with all of the stuff with my x recently, it hit me hard and I have been struggling to keep present in my thoughts and not allow my past to control.

One more thing got added to that recently, as part of something that I'm working on at work, I had to read text messages from an unfaithful wive to several of her paramours and best friend. The wife sounded, in her messages, far too much like my x. This started questions about things that I'll never know.

The four thought lines (unfulfilled, not good enough, ruminations, and questioning) are hard to combat. One or two of them would be easy for me to deal with, but all four is much harder. It's even worse when my body is feeling run down and lethargic.

Almost two weeks ago now, I posted about my "first world problems," and I know that must have sounded really whiny. As I had said, I was dealing with depression and I still am, but not as severe.

Over the past few days, I've had several people ask me about leading group motorcycle rides again. I had stopped because I just wasn't finding enjoyment in it. Someone just called me and asked if I'd lead a ride for him. It all seems so strange. My "not good enough" response is doing battle with the reality that people seek me out to plan routes and show them things because they truly like what I offer when I do it. After so many years of conditioning, it's really hard for me to accept. I wonder how many other members here have similar experiences and how they combat the taught thought patterns?

It both amuses me and makes me sad when people ask me to plan a ride. My x and I used to do it together. It makes me miss her. I will admit that it amuses me when people that I know, who still ride with her, ask when I'll be leading a ride again so that they can ride with me. (I hate that the motorcycle community here is so tight knit sometimes.)

My T asks me why I still want my life involved with someone who did so much damage in my world? My only response is because I still feel that I need to prove to her that I am "good enough." I know that sounds silly, but it's true and what I battle with every day. I really need to figure out why it is so important to me that she view me as "good enough." I know that it's all in my head, but the thoughts are present.

Any suggestions?

Meili, that all sounds somehow familiar. Similar things happen to me, where I find it difficult to believe people want what I have to offer. It does seem to be a mind set we have taken on at some point. I'm not totally convinced it all comes from our relationships, though they do have a big influence. Maybe they also trigger something deeper. I didn't find you at all whiny. Do these rides, again and again, until the everyday reality overrides yesterday's loss.
My own strategy is being tested right now... friend keeps texting me about how he is going to go camping with his new girlfriend to the place he and I went together several times, and enjoyed it very much. I'm trying to be sober and normal about it and not be affected, I think it is working.

Hi Meili

Its been a long time since I was in T. But the best thing my T told me back when was "find something you are passionate about". He went on about a friend of his who was into breeding and riding horses. I cant remember his exact words but he did say that when you have a passion beyond a hobby its more like the essence of you, you are able to stay more balanced. I followed his advice and it has worked for me. I made it a career and right now Im in busy mode with a few new projects and hardly noticing that my pwBPD is now on day 5 of silent treatment. Im having a blast at work and I feel really good about myself right now. Im a designer and maker and my hyperfocus is really useful, as work takes 100% of my attention span when Im on the clock.

So all of my advice to you is coming from this POV. You might say its biased. Im not sure if your T is suggesting you take a step back from your biking community but if that is the case I wholeheartedly disagree. My advice is go even deeper into it; dont avoid the ex and her friends. Embrace the new role you are being given. If she happens to be around I would just go with the flow. I think whats going to happen is that you will become de-sensitized to her presence over time. It might be a bit intense for a while though so just stay focused and "ride it out". Omg Im so funny!

Re. Not feeling worthy or good enough. Can you try sending those thoughts off on vacation for a bit? Someone passed the torch to you, maybe try thinking "obviously they see something I dont see, Im too close so Im going to see if their idea of me is more accurate than my own". Its a way to recycle the feeling of unworthiness into humbleness. Nobody needs you to be a hotshot, you can just transfer your self doubt and shift it somewhere else where it actually ends up working better for you. I think I do this a lot so thats the one thing I can pull out of my head right now.

Thank you both for your responses, support, and insight.


Oh, I completely agree with this. My family of origin was certainly horrible, but it wasn't only them that instilled these thoughts in my head. I was an awkward child (only recently did I find out that Asperger's has been in play) who wore really thick glasses, had a speech impediment, and was far more interested in science than sports. (For those that don't know, in Texas, USA, sports are like a religion and those that play are worshiped... .those who don't, well, they might as well not exist.) When you combine that with parents who neglected me, so I was always dirty, had ill-fitting clothes, malnutritioned, etc. (I'm sure that you're getting the picture that I'm drawing... .), I was treated as someone who did not deserve to live.

As I matured, I got contacts, spent two years in speech therapy so that I could learn to sound like everyone else, bought my first motorcycle, and started hanging around with the "bad people" so that I could at least feel that I belonged somewhere. This all pushed me further away from my family and they shunned me even more. Society had the same general response as well.

It wasn't until I was 46 years old (yep, this year!) that I learned to take those things that I once considered weaknesses because of how society viewed me and turn them into strengths. For example, my poor vision also allows me to see very tiny things that others cannot without some sort of optical aide, this has allowed me to create beautiful jewelry and do detailed work that others would struggle to accomplish.

I still struggle though. Forty-six years of teaching is hard to unlearn. It doesn't help that sometimes things happen and it all repeats. Recently, someone who has followed me on many rides and who loved riding with me found out about my vision. His stance was, "Meili shouldn't even be riding much less leading anyone. Anyone who would follow him is a fool!" Sad, but true.


Passion is a real struggle for me. Existential depression keeps me from truly enjoying anything because I "know" that in the end, nothing really matters. But, I do work hard to do things that I think that I enjoy.


This is exactly what my former T (she retired) told me to do for the very same reason. It's only by exposure that we de-sensitize ourselves.

That being said, the question about my wanting my x back in my life wasn't about riding, it was about the desire to have a relationship with her still. This happens when I get overwhelmed or deeply depressed. My mind seeks out the familiarity that she provides. She embodies a lifetime of experiences that I have had. However painful things were with her, life was also comfortable because I am so used to things being that way.

It doesn't help that my inner child just wants to be held when I am in that state and she pretty close to my physical ideal, so my mind goes there as well. Just another way of seeking the comfort that I have yet to learn to give myself.


I do try, that's the combat that I was talking about in my last post - my current world doing battle with my past. I look at all of the support that I receive and faith that others place in me and start to feel better, only to have it all come crashing down because questioning and worrying.


Ah, now see, that would be the trick wouldn't it? But, I have no idea how to make that happen.

Apologies in advance for being a little overly honest for a second. But some people are the emotional equivalence of an elephant in a china shop. Even if said tongue in cheek its still not really cool. You have aids to help with your vision, they are as real as that bike youre riding. If you believe the bike you can believe the glasses/contacts. So from where Im standing you have perfect vision.

Stepping off the soapbox... .


I actually relate to this. I often have moments of thinking its all just vain. It doesnt help I work in fashion! So it actually really and truly is nothing but vanity. I sometime think the only thing that would make sense is to join the peace corps or go work at an elementary school in in Africa (or other place in need). Lately Ive been thinking though that if I make a difference in the lives of the people around me (and I must be doing something right because theres a small group of people that seems to need a lot from me all the time) then maybe I dont need to move to Africa to do good. This is a new thought for me, a tiny spark. Mostly I think everything is pointless. But I can still get excited, focused, and able to zone out completely at work. Which is a huge blessing in my life.


I have one ex that just took forever to fade away. It took many years. But I can happily say today he is not a part of my current emotional life. He is a part of me, but he doesnt affect my mood in any way anymore.

You mentioned before not being fully content in your current r/s. Im never going to relinquish my position as  ... .But this is a flag. Maybe more orange than red. What is it that is missing for you? Do you think its possible that you can have the r/s you want with your current partner? Personally Im not a fan of settling for. I believe in healthy and fulfilling. I think people often want the same things but are both afraid of bringing it up so nothing happens, things stay the same. Could that be happening?


I manage to do this sometime and I can only try to describe it: First of all I am going to say that if I saw it as taking on a role I will struggle. Because then it becomes about me. But if I can regard it as a task, it becomes a job/task that needs to be done. Im there, I have a bit of know how. The moment is now. Its just gotta get done. So I dive in and think afterwards. Once Im done I process and then I (me, my ego) is back in the equation. But during the moment I check out emotionally. Something I am able to do and can be detrimental to some situations but useful in others.

Re. breaking taught thought patterns heres a really interesting link I came across yesterday www.theoatmeal.com/comics/believe Its very long but hang in there and read it through. I especially enjoyed the last part where the author starts talking to his amygdala. I think there is something in there that connects to this topic.

I love The Oatmeal (and Simon's Cat, but that's a completely different discussion)! It's funny because nothing in that strip caused any sort of reaction within me until the very end; that part resonated. Being Mindful and Wiseminded is exactly what he was talking about. Listen to the emotions, but do not let them dictate your actions.

Cognitively, I know and understand that it was not a matter of being "good enough" for my x (or anyone else for that matter... I'm the only person that I need to be good enough for). At worst, it wasn't a matter of being enough of anything; but, rather, a matter of compatibility. Two different people seeking two different things.

From the very beginning of my time on these boards, I learned that by accepting her, I accepted all that came with her. It was not a matter of whether or not she was "good enough" for me, it was whether or not I wanted what she had to offer. For the life of me, I cannot apply that same thinking about myself. It isn't a matter of my not being "good enough" for her, my family, society, etc. Some like what I have to offer, some do not. It's a reflection on them, not me. But, as The Oatmeal said, our brains try to fight against thoughts that conflict with our core beliefs. From at least the age of two, I was taught that I didn't matter. It's really hard to overcome that.

Like you, I spend a great deal of time helping others and trying to do some good in the world in an effort to find some meaning for my being here. I've taken that to an unhealthy extreme though and given all of myself in the process. My T and I are working to change that and to find some place for me in my own life.

Without thought, this past weekend, I went right back to old behaviors and abandoned my plans because a friend needed help with something that I happen to be naturally good at. He could have paid someone to do what I did, or he could have done it himself (it wasn't that hard), but looked to me to help and I did it. I struggle with this because, to me, it's like another form of buying friendship. People contact me when they need something from me, not just because I am me. It's not healthy for me to continue doing that.

As for the flag, we can call it a vermilion because that's partway between red and orange, right? I'm not sure that it's as much about her as it is about me. At this point, I'm not sure that I can have the r/s that I want with anyone. I've spend my life in a world of intense chaos. When I am not in that state, I have no clue what to do. Some days I think that I look for things in my r/s to be unhappy about because, well, I am bored.

Please, don't get me wrong, she's a very sweet, loving, and nice woman. But, she's also not without her faults. At least she's making efforts to work on herself and better her life. She also makes a lot of effort to take care of me.

But, I'm a high sensation seeker and she does everything slowly. Because of who I am and how I've lived, I need organization and routine to feel safe and function. She's disorganized and doesn't care about routine. There has been a lot of talk on her part about changing that, but no noticeable effort made. I also struggle with her unkept promises. That one bugs me quite a bit. I need to feel secure and to be able to trust. I don't trust her in any form.

But, I then start to question whether or not, because of my past, I'm being too critical? I know that I'm hypervigilent and constantly expect the worst to happen, so is it me or her? I haven't decided yet.

The real red flag in all of this for me is that for the first time in my life I have a desire to be alone. As I said in a prior post, I feel trapped. I'm struggling to figure out if that's because I, subconsciously, want to seek out the intense chaos that is all too familiar, or is it because I see no point in continuing my relationship? One is a healthy response, the other is not as far as I can tell. But, I'm not quite ready to be alone just yet.

Today, I ran across an old SD card that was in my desk. I popped it into the computer and it was filled with pics of my x, me, the bikes, and our world together. In the past, this would have made me nostalgic and sad. Today, nothing... .total indifference. Well, that's not exactly true, I still think that the dogs are cute and that the bikes looked great together and that made me smile.

It's been such a strange journey going from where I was when I got here to where I am today. I still struggle with some of the old issues, but I'm so much stronger than I was in the past. I've learned so much about myself and what I'm actually capable of achieving. Thanks to all who have gone with and taken me down this path.

As I look at all of it as a whole and the issues that I still struggle with, I can clearly see that those that remain come from very deep within my history. I now know that I can push through them, but I'm hoping that at some point I will be able to overcome them.

I suppose that not being triggered by thoughts or images of my ex is a good start though.

It really is, Meili  |iiii  So glad to read this. I remember when I saw some pix of pwBPD and felt... .just fine. I knew then that I had turned the corner, and like you, I still have stuff that comes up related to FOO issues. Do they feel manageable to you?

You've come a long way. I see wide open roads ahead for you.  *)

heartandwhole

Thank you H&W.

Yes and no. Like yesterday, I couldn't bring myself to leave the house after I got home for work. I didn't have any place that I needed to go, but I've been working on doing things for fun again. After several hours, I finally just forced myself to go out. I met up with friends and had a great time.

The hangup was because of the need part. It's a self-care and self-worth issue. Deeply engrained lessons from my youth tell me things like:

• I didn't need to leave the house and therefore it would be irresponsible, a waste of time, etc. for me to do so.
• I don't deserve to have fun. If I'm not doing something for someone else, I'm wasting time.
• Something is only worth doing if another benefits from it, otherwise I'm just taking up space on the planet and using resources that another could use.

While I know that these things are untrue, I thoughts still take place somewhere deep in my mind. I don't even realize that I'm having them. Yesterday, it took my almost having a panic attack for me to realize what was actually going on. At that point, I convinced myself that I did, indeed, need to leave the house.

Well, I just had a random bit of weirdness from my x. Apparently, she has added me to her online calendar. Strange... .

For a few moments, I had that sinking feeling in my stomach and questions like "Why did she do that?" "Is she trying to get my attention?" "Should I ask her if it's a mistake?" etc. etc. etc.

I decided that none of that really matters. She did it for whatever reason and I'll probably never know why. Nothing was populated on the calendar, so it doesn't matter at all.

It does bother me that seeing that she added me excited me.

IMO its a passive aggressive way to test if you are open to contact. Kinda like "oops my phone accidentally dialed you, better hang up now and see if you will call back". The game is if you are interested and open you will call back, if not it means you are not interested/open.

Butt dials do happen but I dont think anyone "butt adds" someone to their calendar.


I think exes will always trigger something in us, which is why its best to leave them alone. But I also think that when you are in a really good place in life, work, love etc those people stop affecting you the way they did.

Thank you both for your replies.

The event has caused me to think a lot. It is nice to see that, while it still effected and bothered me, I have grown enough to respond differently.

I didn't instantly do reach out to ask her what was behind this... .no matter how much I wanted to at first.

It also reminded me of all that has happened over the past year. The pain that I experienced, the loneliness, finding my footing, the beginnings of recovery, and figuring out what it is that I truly want in life.

For a long time now, I've written about the gift that my x gave me and that I owe her a lot. This still holds true. I never would have gotten to where I am today if she had not come into my life. I would not have stopped to figure out who I really am and what is important to me.

It is nice to know that she still thinks of me. It helps me know that I was, in fact, good enough... .

I am very touched that you can see through all the pain and confusion to appreciate what she gave you, brought into your life. You present such a rounded, balanced, complete picture - from being so affected through to recovery and finally the ability to look back and appreciate - I find this a very mature approach. I'm happy for you.

Thank you FD. The balance is hard to maintain. I'm fighting decades of bad teaching. When I get overwhelmed or over-stressed, I still want to reach for what is so familiar to me because the chaos and pain became comfortable over the years. It was manageable whereas the new things that are causing the emotions are new and unknown. New coping mechanisms are having to be developed.

I've never seen the point in playing the victim when it comes to my romantic relationships. No one forced me into them, or made me stay. I could have walked away from any of them at any time. I chose to not to do so. Any treatment that was repeated was something that I allowed. That was a harsh truth that I had to face when I was young adult. The question for me became why?

That answer was something that I chose to ignore for nearly 20 years. With the notable exceptions of my dBPDexw and uBPDexgf, most of my relationships were long and boring. Both partners became frustrated and angry. I've spoke to several of my exes and they have confirmed that they saw things in me that I refused to see and stayed with me hoping to draw those things out. They became frustrated and angry in the process. I felt the same way because of codependency issues. This would cause things to spiral and ultimately end the relationship.

A couple of the exes have followed my life over the years and have seen the changes. More than one would give our relationship another shot if I wanted. My dBPDexw and I even talked about doing just that. I am that happy that didn't happen.

To get here, I had to learn that it was my fear of abandonment (as opposed to just separation anxiety - I wrote a long post once about the difference between the two) caused by C-PTSD that brought me to this place. It kept me in toxic relationships. It's really hard to blame someone else when it is your own fears that are your motivation.

My uBPDexgf is truly a wonderful woman that I will always love deeply. My insecurities did as much damage to the relationship as hers. Wanting the traits that she possesses in a woman that I'm involved with meant that I had to overcome those insecurities or I would just cause damage to the next relationship. Or, worse, enter yet another relationship with someone that I didn't truly want to be involved with just so that I didn't have to face being alone and continuing the cycle of my past.

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