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I'm not exactly sure where I should be posting at this point, but this seemed like the appropriate place.

As some of you may know, I have detached from my x, gained quite a bit of insight into my life, and radically accept the reality of all of the r/s that I had with her.

She and I have talked quite a bit over the past month. Today, she contacted me and we talked on the phone several times throughout the day, and we had nice talks. Well, it started out as nice but went downhill from there.

The day started with her talking about toying with the idea of saving our r/s. I listened, validated her feelings, tried to answer all of her questions and address her concerns, and atone for problems that I actually owned.

At some point, she asked me a question and I answered with as much truth and honesty as I could while trying to make it not be an accusation against her. I failed.

The conversation digressed into an argument. I tried to change the subject several times. I even suggested that we stop talking. On multiple occasions, I said goodbye. At one point, she even hung up the phone. Only to call me back seconds later.

The totality of the exchanges were very enlightening. I learned that if I'm going to continue down this path, I need to develop a thicker skin. Also, I need to manage the conversations better. She complained about so many of our conversations being about deep things and "living in our heads." This was just her projecting though because she's the one keeps starting the discussions about our past and rehashing everything. Yes, I'm guilty for allowing it to happen and for taking part. I need to find a way to stop that from occurring.

She asked me not "bash her." That's fair. I asked her to let me know when she feels that I'm doing that because many times I don't even know that she feels that's what I'm doing. She agreed.

We both got extremely frustrated. I could see the old patterns emerging and changed my behavior. I'm not sure if I did it soon enough to show her consistency in my actions though. I don't know why neither one of us ended the conversation when we were so frustrated. We just kept pushing ourselves through it in what seemed like an effort to work through the pains. I know that's what it was for me. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

At the moment, I'm very frustrated and confused. I'm trying to look at the day as a learning experience. Any insight and/or support is appreciated.

I wish I knew enough to help you. You have give so much to others myself as well. All I can tell you is that I am grateful for you and I thank you for being here for me in my trials. I am around to talk if you need or want.

Thank you Ashur!

But, my world kinda imploded last night.

I spent a wonderful day with a wonderful friend (female) who had recently gotten out of a r/s with an uNPD. She is extremely attractive.

We ended up at a bar. My x showed up moments later. Things went down hill from there.

I'm honestly not sure what happened. The new friend got filled in with all the information. At some point, the x and the new friend exchanged words. The x walked passed and told me to "call my friend off." The friend walked passed and told me to "call my troll off." I was left with a bar tab of several hundred dollars and sitting alone.

I went to the friend's apartment complex, and while I was looking for my cell phone in my vehicle, the friend walked passed and asked me to not contact her. Done. No need to drag her into this any furhter. I went home.

The x, both of us drunk, exchanged words on the phone and via text. She wanted to talk about the effect of our r/s on her new guy. I had zero interest in that and terminated the telephone conversations (yes, there were several) each time that she tried that.

For those or you keeping track at home: The net result, the new friend won't talk to me. I sent her a text asking her to tell me what happened when/if she's ready. The x is livid and not talking to me. I had an urge to reach out to the "other woman" (not preciously mentioned in this post), but didn't. And, now I'm alone.

All of this is not necessity a bad thing. I have learned a lot from it. I think that this post truly belongs o the "detaching" or PI or even the "deciding" boards; but then again, I'm not entirely sure where I'm at or how this will ultimately play out. I do know that I've made my choice and the rest is up to my x as far as the r/s goes.

I'm just really unsure how to salvage this, or if it is worth effort at this point.

Oh, and the "true " other woman is completely out of the picture.

Dear Meili  

  Sorry to hear what happened with your night. Everything happens for a reason, take some time and center, breathe and think this through. You can to choose how much or little you take from this experience and learn.

What a lot of drama, too bad the ex can't put as much love, kindness or friendship into you as much as she could that drama last night. Though I don't blame her in least if she loves you and was hurt, I guess. Just wish she could show you what you need now. Can any of this be repaired? Do you want it to be?

 Peace in your heart, peace of mind, peace of spirit, a peaceful existence, is what you deserve. Some people uplift you and some drain you. You can now choose which of these you want to be with. Maybe you can repair one, both or take time for you.

How do you feel about it now?

Is there some things you have planned that can take your mind off it, bring you some joy or peace today?

You have come so far, don't let this set you back. It is OK the path diverged a little, now you can chose you are at a fork again what is best for you?

Have to go and will be back later maybe. Just wanted to stop in and say I care.

Best regards and blessings,

LR

By the way really glad to hear this. The only way that you can heal, and win over her trust if you want to is for that to happen. Needed to be done. :)  Just wanted to add if the two of you decide to work it out, please see if you both can agree to keep others out, then win each others trust back. If she can do that as well, has to be a two way as you know.

 If not best for you and you need to heal and move forward then do that for you as well. Only you know what is best.

I'm not sure how I feel about any of this right now LR. I'm still trying to process it. I do know that I feel sorry for the new guy. How sad for him! He had to witness his gf dysregulate over my being with a new woman.

I guess that I'm both hurt and angry. My x told me that she'd be upset when I started dating again.

I'm angry with myself for being so drunk that I wouldn't talk with my x when she tried. I didn't want to hear about anything other than what was happening between her and I though. I just refused to listen to the rest. I might have been able to defuse the situation if I had made her more important though. I just didn't. I couldn't at the moment.

Can it be fixed? I don't know. It's really up to her. I'm willing to try and open to the possibility. At the moment though, I'm going back to NC. That's all that I really can do. Things got really ugly last night. I clearly was not ready to try to reconcile yet.

As all of this unfolds, I will continue to try to focus on me, my wants, my needs, and my desires in life. I'll go back to what I was doing before all of this took place and continue to try to put my life back in order. If my x wants to talk, she'll contact me. If she doesn't, then I'm better off.

I'm ok though. That's what is important.

Thank you so much for letting me know that you care. That means a lot to me right now!

An interesting thing happened this morning. While at the same event, my x apologized to me for last night. I think that I apologized to her too, but can't actually remember because I'm still under the effects of all the alcohol.

I hung around the event for a bit after that. I could see her looking at me when I would pass. She was talking to others, so I just kept walking. It was hard on me though, so I left without saying another word to her.

What she shows me is that this is as hard for her as it is for me. She has told me on multiple occasions that she feels some pressure from me. I try really hard to not do that, and I'm not sure how I am. I truly want to tell her thank you for the apology. She didn't have to do it. She could have just ignored me. Because she feels pressured, I won't contact her though. I guess that if I hear from her again, I'll do it then.

Melli,

Sorry to hear about all you stress... .I do appreciate your comment about her hurting from the break up too.  I think to often we paint those with BPD as somewhat heartless.  I don't think they are so much heartless as they are confused and it makes it really confusing for us who love them to know what to do.

  You have gone NC and thats helping you, which is good, but it is most likely hurting her on the inside.  I know I have been told by a pwBPD is that when they push you away is when they need to be held the closest.  Its hard b/c they push so hard.  You are aware of my situation my ex gf keeps telling me to leave and just let her go... .says awful things doesn't answer me and yet if I contact her the next day she always replies, apologizes and says she doesn't no what to do... .loves me wants me etc... .

I have come to view life with a pwBPD as a giant test.  They test your loyalty, commitment, love and boundaries... .they need them all and depend on them from their SO.

I have yet to go NC with mine, and while a lot of days its 2 steps forward and 3 back we are making progress... .not as fast as either would like but progress just the same.

Thank you for that OB.

After reading what you wrote, I sent my x an email apologizing for my behavior last night. I didn't offer any excuses because it was inexcusable. I did try to acknowledge what I did last night from what what I can remember.

Based on what I can piece together from call logs and text messages. I was really angry and she was frantic.

At the moment, I'm feeling frantic. I'm trying to calm myself down, but not doing a very good job of it. I thought that I was more detached than this. It is the thought that I'll never hear from her again I suppose. I can accept the fact that it's over. I have accepted it several times. I just have this frantic desire to know that she read the email and accepted my apology regardless of what happens between her and I.

Meili

I know exactly what you mean the frantic thoughts, the worry the hurt... .the constant can it be over that runs through your mind.  I moved to the detaching board after her last email to me, convinced myself it was over.  A day later I emailed her back... .and she replied even though she told me she had cut me out completely.  Its a twisted test but a test none the less.  They have such a hard time controlling there emotions they just get the better of them.  I really am starting to believe that its up to the non to decide when the r/s is over.  At least thats how it is with mine... .she pushes me away and a lot of men would just quit. But every time we go through this she thanks me for not quitting and we get a little better.  Not sure how many ups and downs I will have to endure before we level out but I think that is what it is going to take.

Imo they desire consistency more than anything  and their condition keeps them from getting that from most people.

I certainly agree that it is up to us to decide when we've had enough and it's over. Our SO can break things off and cut us out completely, but we still have to decide that we are ready to move on. If we don't, we get stuck.

In my situation, I want her to come back, but am prepared for her not to. I've stopped dwelling on the prospect and am moving on in my life. I'm just not locking the door so to speak.

I also agree that consistency is highly important. It is in every r/s, but seems to be more so in these types. I've tried to be consistent in letting my x know that I still love, cherish, and adore her; and that I'd love to give things another shot with her. But, I've also maintained that I am moving on because we are no longer together.

Do you feel that is best chance you have to have another go at the r/s?

I continue to tell my ex I love her and want another chance at the r/s.  I'm not prepared to move on just yet I guess.  She wants to be friends and see where that leads us... .not sure if she really see that as away back or just to keep tabs on me... .so hard to decipher between what they say and what they mean

If you're asking about consistency being the best chance, then yes. In my situation, the r/s would become too much for me every few months and I'd try to end it. This became a predictable pattern that my x and I both saw. Now she tells me that she's afraid that if we tried again that I'd just do the same thing. All that I can do is let her know that I'm still around.

But, I think that I've overdone it in the past. I was too clingy and needy. That was not good.

Also, I was so wrapped up in wanting her back that I'd feel rejected very easily and I'd push her away. This was viewed by her as a push/pull dynamic. That certainly didn't help me appear committed and reinforced her fears.

Perhaps this is her issue with me.  She feels that I cheated on her because I cant handle being alone and we haven't gone more than a few days apart before I reach out.  I suppose I am being clingy and chasing her... .thing is she always answers when I call/text... .its a odd thing with mine... .she needs me to prove I can handle being alone but I also feel she needs me to show I am available so that I dont trigger her abandonment issues.

That is almost my situation exactly. I am having to prove that I can be alone. My x and I both respond when the other reaches out. I'm convinced that she needs the reassurance that I'm still here and loyal to her.

By taking a step back, not contacting her out of "need," and trying to not control the situation; I have been able to give myself the time to focus on me and fix the issues that I brought to the r/s.

When I finally accepted that we may never have a romantic r/s again everything changed for me. I stopped smothering her and allowed her to have the time and space that she needs to work out what she needs to work out. I was terrified that she would view this as abandonment. So, I still let her know that I'm still open to the idea. She just needs to commit to it also. The choice is now hers. She's the one who gets to decide when she has had enough.

Because I am not in control of that, I continue to work on me and live my life as I see fit. If she does decide to try again, I'm open to the idea. If she doesn't, I'll be a better person for it. Who knows, I might actually meet someone else before she decides and then I'll finally lock the door. The future is unwritten... .

I like that "the future is unwritten"... .and its true we could very easily be together again in my mind... but if she can't move past my cheating(even though we were broken up, sorry still bothers me that she gets so hung up on it)... .I guess I have no choice but to let it go... .and maybe thats what she is looking for me to do... let her go and prove that I can be alone... .she suggested it once... but at that  point she was going to wait for me to figure me out. 

I guess that is all I have done for a couple of weeks is smother her... .its just hard bc there are days she acts like nothing ever happened. And things are great, then the next it all goes to hell

Meili,


yes, you deserve happiness. yes, you deserve love. yes, you deserve the life you want. Some thoughts I am throwing out as the board you have this on. If you were on detaching I would say different. I am not saying you should stay.

You acknowledged this is the only one you really loved or wanted to marry before, yes? But there was trust issues, the other woman really was a center of the problem.

Now she is gone. You are acknowledging that you both have issues to work on. Still care about each other enough to apologize and look within.

What plan do you have now that you sent email? I am asking as it seems maybe if you both work on the issues, without others involved, use the tools to communicate. Not cling out of responsibility, neediness, or lack of love, but in fact for love.

Sometimes we need to step back to work on issues, our core values, seeing what we want to come back even better for ourselves and our SO in the relationship.

Maybe if she sees how much she still cares for you, not out of jealousy but love. The fact you are trying to apologize, work on it, and got rid of the other woman friend that was the center of the problem. Now what can she do to work on her part, honesty, no other men and can you both do that? Counseling maybe?

Just some thoughts. Again what is best for you. If you need to step away, a better relationship, NC ( after telling her... .) or just work on you. Only you will know.

But the longer you both leave unresolved and the more people that get involved the harder to win back trust on both parts. Not because stepping away isn't good because there were issues before that needed resolved without others in. Hope that makes sense.

So yes there will be hurt, and trust issues. Do you think now working on, you both can work together towards a goal? Or in fact perhaps not possible, with her maturity level? Think on it, you have the key to the answer within. Though you need to use the key turn the knob and open the door.

We create possibility when we ignore limitations.

I am only throwing this out there seems if you really want to work or try maybe perhaps see if you both can limit talking past mistakes, and show what you both are doing to acknowledge and rectify. Have some talks, small time together without drama, a period of time with no others or bars ( where others and drama might occur at the moment and trigger both). Then go back to what and where you enjoy when this is solved. Just some thoughts.

Use what you can and throw out the rest. Hope didn't over step.

LR

You didn't overstep at all LR. I appreciate your thoughts.

My x called me. I'm not exactly sure why. She said that she didn't want to leave things like they were. She explained the night before and apparently she grabbed the arm of the girl that I was with and the two exchange words. We talked about our fight some too. Both apologizing. That's progress from where we once were.

She has to get rid of the new guy before anything can really change though. I truly believe that when she goes back to work she'll change that. She told me several times today that she just needed a summer to blow off steam, and that's what she's doing. She also told me that she's starting to get ready to come back to the "real world" (my words, not hers) and start being responsible again.

We have spent a lot of time talking about the many issues we had when we were together and what could have been done differently. That dynamic is changing though and there are spurts of conversation about other things now. For the most part, the aggression is gone when we talk about the past. It seems that things only get heated when I mention something that she did that hurt me. Then she gets angry and I get defensive.

I would love to go to counseling again with her. This time without all of the anger that I was carrying last time. She was seeing a counselor on her own. I have no idea if she still is.

I think that trust is going to be a huge thing for us to overcome. I think that it's possible, but it is going to take a lot of time and consistency on both of our parts. I hate knowing that she's using this guy. I hate questioning what she says to me and her motivations for being sweet to me now. I hate knowing that she has talked to me about sex and reconciling while she's with the new guy. It is going to take me quite a bit of time to resolve the conflict that those things create in my mind.

Meili,

This is easy from the cheap seats... .lol so take with a grain of salt.

Let things calm, seek peace... I have a video I am going to send you in DM I really think you will enjoy. Very helpful. Now seek peace, breath in deep, concentrate and let go for now.

You both have apologized, cared, and did the grace and dignity thing of being adults.

Now you were with a friend, had another friend. So that hurt her and well would me. She is now with a man that is not friends, but more.

Now the work and boundaries begin if you want to win her back. You can, it will have to be fair, and work on both parts. No games, no others, no using others.

You my friend are there now. Took responsibility and got rid of the "friend" that was causing problems and new friend. Friends are great, important and good. NOT when they interfere with love.

Take time now decide if you love her? I know you said you do. Not lust, not friendship w benefits, not friends, not jealousy, not clinging need, but love. Answer within. The answer is there you will know. Make sure then proceed.

Now she has to do some work to be honest. No other men friends right now, no friends with benefits and no love interests. Don't tell her that. Silent boundary will do that for you.

Be back for more later need to take care of things.

If you love her, she you, and you both are on the path to really working. This can and will work. Have faith, use the tools.

No more contact today if possible.  Your choice but well... .It ended on good note, you both apologized and acknowledge. Take some time and breathe now, center find some joy.

By the way this will be tough in some ways no mistake about it, as well you can't keep doing things the same way and expect different results. Now you need to do different, a new path, this path will have health and happiness along the way for you. It is possible but you will need a different method now.

LR

Yeah, I need to do more work on my boundaries. I've completely destroyed some of them as of late. Communicating for 12 hours at a time is not the best plan here. I'm not sure what you meant by a silent boundary about the other guy though.

My first thought is LC. As long as she's with him, she shouldn't have so much access to me. It isn't fair to me (or to him!).

I've allowed so much communication lately because it has seemed to help. Maybe it's hurting though?

I look forward to the video!

Thank you again!

Sent. Think will help a lot. I have known him personally and we are both the same type... .lol and went to raw food and retreats together years ago.

Will add some things I think will help you and someone who pm'd

Meili,

I know there is no miracle cure for this PD, or for the relationships, or life in general. I do know if you have a higher power and faith, put your trust in that.

We have to remember we didn't cause it, can't cure it nor control it. But we can have our power, love and happiness within our hands and hearts.

Having said that all relationships that work have key ingredients, of love, trust, faith, integrity and honesty.

Some think they should all be fun, but in fact they do take work at times. No relationship can be 100% fun or problem less.  They should be 50-50 and at times 100% when one is sick, depressed or near birth etc. Especially with a BPD or PD person, that can add much more problems to the mix. Having been a care-taker to someone ill, don't take on that role.

I do think if there is love, a will, then there will be a way. If there is a foundation already, even if shaky, love not lust. A true foundation not a lust she or he loves me it has been 8 months of fights. So having said that you have had that, are striving for that, you both were in counseling.

I am writing this to you as you said the only one you really wanted to marry. Still examine your heart and see as you keep healing. IF so then try... .

Now in order to work it has to start a new, with some of the tools and insight you both have gained apart. In counseling, this board, in searching within. If love is there for you, make sure you feel she has love back and not lust or attachment alone.

Judge a tree by its fruit. Is she kind, loving and respectful to you? Only you know. In the equation put the other woman to see if that was much of your problem. If so and now out of way, keep it that way.

Look within, see how far you have come, what you are addressing, what you are healing. Then decide if this is the partner you want to continue the journey. It has a new path now, not dysfunction, jealousy, other women or men, drama or games.

If you are ready keep looking within, centering, finding your joy, self compassion,self love, self healing.  She can't and more then likely won't bring that to you.

We are all responsible for our own healing, and happiness. In turn if feel she can bring some things to table, the tools, counseling, validating, helping with her fears are yours to help. But not care- taking, and juggling all her emotions. She needs to bring something to the table.

She now will need to bring honesty, trust, willingness to look within, get help, and no other men.

Caring, compassion, communication, connection, warmth, and love should never be conditional and never be willfully withheld, ever, unless the relationship is already over. Then boundaries need to be put in place for a healthy friendship, LC, or NC. This is where it is tricky for you and your health and well being. As you had a foundation before you need to build upon that and not tear down. That is why it is refreshing and can work with your love but harder then starting anew. It does have much more rewards as it is love then not games or lust.


Tell her then when all calm that you want to give the above but only when she is ready, and can give up the crutch she has. Don't mention the person by name, as that is giving power to her and another to be hurting or between. When she asks what crutch tell her look within you know. We can't have others in the middle of our love or life. If we know longer have that love or trust will hurt me but I will go on, and make my own path and happiness. Word it your way, and if you feel comfortable and this is what you want.

Then start a silent boundary, reading, healing, watching the ones I gave you, the tools and making your happiness. Stick to what is right for you. Don't let her connect in the way the old love relationship was if she can't commit to a new loving one. With you both putting the past behind, but addressed, and moving forward with tools, counseling, a commitment and love.

I am writing as I know you haven't and won't give silent treatment as one who sent me it kills a relationship it is dead then looking for scraps. It harms and is punishment for disagreement or just immature on both parts. Different then NC as you already know and helped me with... .LOL

But let her know you can't be there the same until you both can commit and decide. If that means you date, remarry, or are friends with others she will have to accept. Prepare for the outburst when that day comes you need to say, but then she will know she can't keep you dangling. She might then attach to another and you have to be ready for that, so only say if you want and mean it.

But if she is high functioning, and really loves you the same then it might and will more then likely lead to a working relationship. She will have to bring to table to eat at the table. It puts it on her to try as well can't be just you waiting on the side. If not then she is not really loving you back the way you will need as a healthy non.

If she can't give that, then give the gift to yourself to move on.

Use what you can throw out the rest and be blessed. Again use the tools for now, keep things calm, don't bring drama, heal for you. Set your boundaries and then decide if you want to approach her with above or wait it out.

  LR. As always, thank you for your time, thoughts, and energy.

Yes, I truly love her. The kind of love that was completely unfamiliar to me before I met her for it was not borne of chaos and pain. That is what I thought love felt like before meeting her. Now, after all has been said and done, I know a new kind of love. One that is warm, tender, caring, and exists just because she exists. Even better, I'm learning that kind of love about myself. That one is proving to be a little harder to learn, but I'm doing it.

She and I have actually just reached the place that you describe. On Friday, I made mention that while I do love her, I won't wait forever for her. It was kind of weird. She had just made mention of it, but when I said it to her, she reacted. It was as if she had never really considered the fact that I might meet someone else and fall in love while she was doing her thing. She told me that my saying that was a game changer to her in that it added another variable to whatever she is trying to figure out.

Then, she saw me with that woman yesterday and completely dysregulated. It really worries me that she assaulted that woman. For now, I'm sitting back, watching her behaviors.

I truly believe that the foundation is there. If she is willing to build on it, I am also. If she is not, I will accept and respect her choice. I've told her that several times. I guess that seeing me with someone else added a level of reality to that.

My T and I spent most of my last session talking about my making the decision to allowing the door to remain unlocked to my x if she wants to come back through it. My T specializes in adults survivors of abuse and people who have been in abusive r/s. She is respectful of my choice, but advises against it. At first, I slipped into old patterns and agreed with her because I thought it was what she wanted to hear. Then I realized that I am the important one here.

My x has made several changes in how she deals with, talks to, and relates with me. She has done things to show me love and respect. Even if she has missed to mark a bit, she is making the effort. If she hadn't shown me the changes and made the effort, things would be completely different. I would have kept walking when I realized that I had detached from the old r/s and broke the addiction to her.

I woke up in the middle of the night do to insecurity issues creating a nightmare. Now, I'm stuck in a loop of anxiety that I need to get under control. I'm trying to be mindful and stay centered. I'm not fighting the feelings this time. The lack of sleep probably didn't help either.

The insecurity was really dumb and simply borne from old, habitual thinking. "What if this irresponsible, immature life is the one that she really wants? What if I'm not good enough? What if I can't learn to not be so serious all the time? What if we do get back together and I'm not able to handle it? What if we do get back together and she decides that I'm not what she wants?"

But, really, what if? So, she decides that she wants something else in life. That really isn't a reflection of my worth. That's just two adults who want different things, right? I understand this on a cognitive level, now if someone would just tell my inner critic!

Meili

Your inner critic is the worst... I understand how you feel completely.  Your mind is rational and knows the truth and that regardless of how this turns out, that you will be ok.  Its your heart that is struggling, it wants what it wants... .and that is what brings on the anxiety.  Been there done that.  Heres what I do... .find something that you love, and go do that for you get your mind off of all this for a while.  Whether its a long walk a good cup of coffee whatever do something for you... .make yourself happy.

Unfortunately, the things that I love are all now emotionally tied to my x. So, doing them just reminds me of the good times that we shared. It's getting better now though. I can smile to myself about the memories at least.

I do get what you're saying though. Inner critic work is going to be theme for working on myself this week.

The truly confusing part to me is that each of the things that triggered the insecure thoughts have a corresponding "reassurance" thought. I could, and have, looked at each thing and can view it as either dangerous or affirming. My mind naturally goes to the danger though. What's worse is that in reality, none of it probably has to do with me at all and I'm just attributing it to myself! As I tell others all the time, I need to try to not think about it. I don't know, and can't know, what's going on in her head.

I understand, yes thats tough when all the good in your life becomes wrapped up and associated with the relationship... .idk maybe there is something you like to eat that she doesn't... .just a thought

Again you and I are a lot alike... its tough bc you just want to know what she is thinking so that you can fix the situation... .Im a worst case scenario type to so I can appreciate where you are right now

Well, she is vegan, so I've enjoyed a lot of medium rare steak as of late!

I've moved on from wanting to fix anything. Well, anything other than myself. I cannot fix what happened in the past, so I've had to let that go. I cannot "fix" her, so I've stopped giving that any thought energy. I cannot fix the situation that is currently happening, so I've stopped trying to control it.

All that I can do is show consistency and utilize the tools that I'm learning as I/we go forward. Those things are all that are in my control. Releasing the desire to control the situation has been a huge boon to me.

When my x and I first started talking about reconciling, she told me that she was worried that I'd get frustrated and go away because things weren't happening at a pace that made me happy. She has told me several times along the way that she doesn't like being pushed. I've made a conscious effort to let go of everything and give her the time and space that she needs. I know that when I've had enough, I'm in control of that. If she takes too much time that's something that she will have to deal with. Learning that freed me from trying to control her by trying to protect her from experiencing the consequences of her choices.

  Meili,

Had to stop in as well once you watch those videos it does help you release all that in mindfulness that has built up. Not sure if that is what is going on but don't worry you must hit those stages to go to the next.

Don't forget in all this you both had to rebuild a foundation, for many with cracks and dysfunction might not possibly work. But many come back much stronger, especially if love, inner work, taking responsibility which you are doing.

You can and are stopping the chaos, drama, healing, learning and using tools, either way it will benefit you. The main obstacle you tackled like a man took care of it, ended it now await to see her part and boundaries.

 "Can I get a Hello" breathe in Deep and dive into the rest you need to explore. I see so much growth, heart and energy. If she can and is working on the same wow talk about a wonderful life, foundation and relationship you will have.

Give her a little time being that you all talked, apologized, that is so cool and adult. Inner work takes time and love, as well as patience. Give her that while working and see, if not you will know. When  you do look how far you have come, worked on, and well are. You soul is showing :) and it is beautiful. Shine on, and light your path rather then curse the darkness.



If not someone will truly appreciate and love you for it. Don't give up yet. Love is the key. Repeat that with me love is the key. You both had it, you do have it, don't give it up yet. If you have to later, well then you will know. For now walk in love, respect, and a path of good.

LR

Thank you so much LR! I really needed that tonight.

I am, in part, waiting to see what she does. That's all that I really can do on that front right now.

The other part of me is continuing to work on me and move forward. I hope that at some point, our paths will converge again.

I often wonder if she sees this as a push/pull? On one hand, I am ready to walk away (because I see no other viable choice given her decisions), and on the other hand, I am trying to pull her to me. It's a tough line to walk.

But, as we've discussed before, I have to have my boundaries. As long as she continues to follow the road she's chosen, I can only follow for so far.

I do agree with you though, if she does "come around" we will have the most fantastic relationship that either of us could imagine.

It's almost, yes, just almost, amusing to me that she always told me that she wanted the "fairy tale" relationship. To me, that's exactly what this is. It's been a fairy tale. Every fairy tale has the middle section where the couple has to experience some form of extreme strife that keeps them apart. Then they get back together. Take Cinderella for example. She meets the Prince at the ball, has to dash, leaves the slipper, drama builds as he searches for her, and then they fall into one another's arms and live happily ever after.

I know that is naive of me. I know that is probably viewed as immature. But, that's what I truly think of when I look at the big picture.

Like any good story though, I'm waiting on the edge of my seat with abated breath to see how it ends.

Meili,

I don't think you are being naive at all.  Because if she comes around and wants to be in a r/s with you it will be better than it has ever been.  with both of you completely focused on each other.

And, even if she doesn't, I'll be in the best position that I've ever been in to have a healthy and happy relationship.

My self-imposed deadline is approaching rather quickly, and I'm getting nervous.

What is interesting though is the old thought patterns are locked in combat with the new ones. My insecurities are fighting with my sense of self-worth. I'm realizing that my insecurities, at this point, all seem to be tied to my x.

It's like I'm sitting here, realizing all that I have to offer, yet wondering why she "prevents" me from offering it? If she doesn't want me, then why not step aside and allow me find someone who does want me?

It's maddening. I do keep going back to the things that she's told me about her needing time, not to feel pressured, working on getting her life straightened out, trying to decide what she actually wants for her future, etc.

Ahhh... .one of those moments that is both bitter and sweet.

I've written many times about my x giving me the most precious gift of all when I was able to step back and look at the totality of our r/s. In therapy today, my T changed directions with me and implemented some new techniques that seem to have had an effect and will be great tools to add to my ever expanding repertoire. Next week I start hypnotherapy and soon may be using EMDR to treat my CPTSD. Without my x, none of this would be happening. That's the sweet part btw.

The bitter part is that I want to share it with her and cannot. While she definitely has/had her issues, I brought my own to the r/s. She suffered because of me just as much (and in her mind, more, which is a possibility) as I suffered because of her. I want her to be able to see the progress and share it with her.

Maybe she'll get to see the end results. No one knows right now. I do know that we aren't dead yet, and the future is unwritten. I'm going to stay optimistic until I'm told not to be anymore.

Hi Meili,
Ashur and others have it right, you give so much on these boards.  Thanks for sharing your own journey as well, and I'm wishing you the best,
lar, laris

You're so right that it's hard to know where to post things at times. Sometimes the detaching and saving boards can seem quite similar anyway! Us Nons, in crisis and confused over the end of a relationship or yet another possible beginning at it.

We are running around thinking, "did I do the right thing then? Did I act how a pwBPD needed me to act then? Am I filling in the gaps correctly here... ?"
Either trying to save it or trying to detach from it. Both scenarios involve a lot of patience and commitment from nons.

Try as we might, it's extremely difficult to walk the fine line that sits between validation for the pwBPD, and keeping boundaries for yourself. I think the detaching board has a greater number of posts on it for that very reason! Even With all the tools in the world, it's so hard to find that magic point in the middle between the two. The point where you can speak your truth and not get demolished as a person, yet still help and validate your loved one. It's awful, but all it takes sometimes is one step in the wrong direction, and it's over again! Just when you thought there was a chance. For me, I find it so hard, when I try everything I can to keep things together... and that's all it takes. One slip. The stress on our shoulders of having to predict and respond in a responsible manner just to keep it all going, well it takes a lot. I too have tried so much, but his fits of disregulation just seem untouchable these days.

Not a r/s for the faint hearted! There were times I wished there was an actual step by step guide that you could pull out and read from. Like an emergency language translator , when you see things are escalating!
I think someone should write such a guide, I really do.

And our own emotional cycles that we live in are so hard. Going through the stages-
-painful break up or discard,
-Emotional anguish
-slight recovery,
-More emotional anguish
 -feeling better,
-yes I can do this now, (but never really stopped thinking about them),
-then breaking NC,
-then thinking maybe they want to get back together (but I didn't see this coming... again)
-then, I can do this in an unattached way and see how it goes
-some nice exchanges
-your heart leaps with sudden possibilities of getting back your love
-you feel vulnerable again
-You regain a bit of footing or self strength, try not to get sucked up by it all (trying to be sensible)... .
Things cool off again in the waiting period while they work out what they want... .
And so on... .
Well for me anyway:)

I posted in this way because I get a real sense of your over all struggle with it. I can so relate, and I don't think there is a wrong or right answer. We should reflect on how much energy and caring thought we have all put into our situations in loving someone with this disorder. It's a challenge like I've never known!

Someone should write that guide book!  

Thank you for your kind words  lar, laris; they truly mean a lot to me.

Zinnia21 wrote a fairly accurate synopses of the stages of all of this that I have been going through. There has been a lot happening with me on the r/s front since I last posted, but what feels like zero movement. I know that there has been movement, but the nearly constant push/pull as my x struggles with her emotions makes it feel as if nothing is happening.

Based on the latest information, she would like to get back together, but doesn't know if it will ever be possible for her to get past my betrayals. The majority of our conversations seem to end with her expressing the hurt that she feels as a result of how our r/s played out. I need to do more work on learning to end the conflict (https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict) and getting out of the Karpman drama triangle (https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle).

It has all gotten a bit easier (and less painful) since I've done away with all expectations of reconciliation. Don't get me wrong, I still want it, I just don't expect it to happen.

Also, realizing that her lashing out about our past is her issue to resolve and not anything that I can actually fix has made it easier. She is still looking to me to "fix" the problems though. I would do so if I had the power, but I don't. Because of my desire to be with her and the compassion that I feel for the struggle that she's facing, it still hurts some though.

Her reassure that she still loves me and would like to reconcile if she can release her pain and find a place of trust provides some comfort though. We've gone from sporadically talking to her telling me these things every day over the past few days.

She will be out of town for the next few days, so I'll have some time to regroup and recharge.

  Meili,

When trust has been broken in your relationship, both partners need to direct loving attention to the relationship to rebuild it and make it stronger. There is a two-sided situation at play, and the reasons behind the betrayal need to be addressed and healed together. The betrayal is an opportunity for each person to look within and heal their part of the relationship-system in order to understand why it resulted in broken trust.

Broken trust can definitely be healed, but it takes deep work.The underlying causes for betrayal need to be identified, examined and worked on in order for betrayal not to resurface again. This is the key, and why I think you can do it.

You have been working on why it happened, and addressed it. You also changed the dynamic by giving her the tools to see you changed it. Got counseling, talked to her, took time for you, decided she is the one and worth doing this for. You got rid of the problem, and told her you loved her.

Now the inner work on her part needs to come into play, with your guidance of showing her you are true to your word. Each of you will now  need to learn to love, and trust yourselves enough to be able to approach the relationship from individual places of self-respect and personal integrity. When you make a commitment to treat yourself and the person in your life with love and compassion, you will not harm yourself or your partner by lying or cheating. Mainly because you are authentically taking care of your needs and theirs then the relationship becomes a priority.

Keep going with your love, integrity and caring for her, it shows and I am sure she will see it as well.

Just remember the things she has done as well needed to be addressed for you to trust again. Your papers and your love need to be respected and quite frankly apologized for as well in the whole spectrum of this.

All is good, life is wonderful and your relationship will reflect that love back to you as you both rebuild your foundation. One day at a time!

Thanks for your kindness on my post when needed it.

LR

As always, thank you LR for your time, thoughts and kind words. They have been invaluable to me!

I agree that trust can be rebuilt if both parties are willing to do so. I believe that there is an aspect of having blind faith that must be there for that to happen though. For the first time in my life, I'm taking a leap of blind faith. I have faith that the trust can be rebuilt and that my x and I can work on our issues together. That the two of us can build new memories to replace the old, tainted, bad ones. And, that over time, the lack of trust will diminish because of consistency of action.

You are correct in that I am working on the issues that brought me to a place where she learned to not trust me. The lack of self-worth that made me believe that she couldn't possibly truly love me and caused me to end the relationship when things got too much for me to handle because of that lack of faith.

Over the past few months, she has, in many ways that are important to me, shown me though both action and words that she loves me. She did this of her own volition when she didn't have to because the r/s had already ended and she had moved on, and believed that I had moved on as well. That speaks volumes to me. I hope the my efforts to show her my love through both actions and words speaks as strongly to her.

While still not perfect, the efforts that I see both of us making to change the dynamics between us is also very telling to me. The openness of communication, the honesty about feelings, and the active listening all seem to be proving both of us with some level of comfort and security.

There seems to be a great foundation upon which to build a stronger r/s being formed. I'm by no means delusional and think that it will be perfect, but it does give me hope. And, if in the end, the decision is made that this is not the r/s for us, I know that I've learned a lot about myself and how I treat others. Her actions and words show me that she has as well. We'll each be able to bring these things into all of r/s in the future.

    I just got caught up on your thread, Meili.  It seems like you continue to do the work you need to do for yourself, first, and then for all those you care about.  Lilyroze's wonderful responses to you remind me of these mediations I've been reading lately, focused on expanding our capacity for love of self and others, and that this is, in an important sense, reality, or influences our reality to the good.  You're right: the little and larger outcomes that you experience in your relationship with your pwBPD, cannot take this away from you.  And I've seen how your work contributes to your nuanced responses to others on this site, including myself.  (I'm still thinking about what you said most recently on my thread, pondering your careful thoughts and ideas for my situation.  Thanks so much!)  lar, laris

  lar, laris   I need to get over to yours have some things been thinking about for you. Work on your self love right now though hon.You are important, you are precious and worthy.  Sorry for thread jack... .:)

Meili,

Yes it is things you can both bring to other relationships if doesn't work and that is great.

 But for now stop there is NO other relationships now or later. In your heart and mind now it is her. That is it. Remember that. Love is the key. You have said how much you love her, why, what you have in common. As you have shown in your soul that is not lust, as you know it is true love. Don't throw that away in your mind at all now. I know you haven't but stay the path. So with no further ado... .

The path is with her now ( soon), in the future. You love her, it is showing, I am sure she feels it. Give over to your higher power but moreso be so happy for all you had in common and all you will have.

The talks you have had have been beautiful, meaningful, loving and are showing her love, your thoughts and foundation. She is reaching out. Good job, you both have so much to be proud of.

In a disposable society where people are replacing or throwing away everything, or not trying, or want instant tinder relationships. You are going the old fashioned, I love you for you. What you are to me, not what you can do for me.

You have so much in common, can you imagine after a few more years together the joy and love. Don't let her or you throw it away for nothing, and things or people that don't matter.

Be the alpha and go after her. Just do it. I know you have given her space, and her choice that was important. I am talking once she is hesitant or starts to waiver let her know she is chosen and loved. You must do that. Why? She was hurt and betrayed, I am telling you let her know. As I know you did but again, and again till sinks in.

 No not the stalker on some peoples this is love ( hehe I know you know that and aren't), and you both had it, do have it, make it right. As you have.  She might waiver at some point with what you feel is the betrayal as a woman, I understand her hurt. Help her through it as you have.

This is not easy for you, but well you will be the stronger one through this to help you both, hold the light on the path. Don't let anyone who doesn't matter blow out the light. Keep going.

Give her a chance, she will see. Tell her everything as you have. The betrayal is no longer one. Why? Because you chose her, chose her over the other, the money and other things. You chose love, you chose you both.

She has come back in many ways. Keep the path. Remember there is no path to happiness. Happiness is the path, and she is your happiness.

 Yes you must have your self love and happiness within. We are responsible for our own happiness no one can do that. But you are taking responsibility to not throw that away in anger, hurt or putting on her what she can't do with her hurt now.

I see you both happy and I am happy for you.

If then it doesn't work then move on, and be OK, but not until you do the old fashioned I love you, fight for her heart. That is what your love was and is so that is what it will take.

All else fails then yes you both will bring better to something else.

I see you deserve each other. I see you both choose love.

Best regards,

LR

Meili, you certainly have been blessed finding someone you can relate to on this level, whatever the outcome. That makes life rich and worthwhile. It is also so unusual - and you can put it into words. What is even more admirable, you share your wisdom and self knowledge with others, and take the time to make them feel important and regarded, too. LR, you too give so much, and write so well. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to share a little of your insights.

Thank you all for your wonderful comments! You are my cheerleaders through all of this and I could not have gotten this far without you!

There are days that I struggle and feel that I do not have the strength to continue to do what it takes to change 40+ years of bad programming. I read your words, see the strife and victories that you experience (and everything in between!), and find a new resolve to continue to work on myself and go after what I want in life.

I owe you all more than I can ever convey with words for putting yourselves out there. You truly are inspirational!

(http://www.stripers247.com/phpBB2/images/smilies/cheer.gif)(http://www.stripers247.com/phpBB2/images/smilies/cheer.gif)(http://www.stripers247.com/phpBB2/images/smilies/cheer.gif)(http://www.stripers247.com/phpBB2/images/smilies/cheer.gif)

So, without further delay, here's the update:

Things are still progressing toward resolution between my x and I. That's it... .that's all I got... .



But, seriously, it's still hard and painful. The majority of my mind and emotions is grateful for this slow time in which she and I are learning to love and trust one another again. The minority? Well, it is acting like a spoiled brat who is not getting what he wants when he wants. My inner critic is feeling insecure; all the while, my outer critic is finding things about which to silently complain.

The fortunate thing is that my inner child feels secure. Today, my x told me that she loves me with a firmness and passion that I have not heard from her in over a year. I was taken aback by it when she said it to me. The feelings that I experienced were also something that had not existed during that same time period. It was no longer as if she was just going through the paces or afraid to show her vulnerability to me.

I truly hope that this means that she's recovering from the horrible things that I did during our r/s (like silent treatments, not listening to her, not validating her, not honoring her, and all of the other bad behaviors). I'm trying to not get overly excited or optimistic about it though. I don't want to set myself up to be crushed. Hopes and desires are fine; expectations are bad.

Sadly, my self-imposed, unvocalized deadline is approaching. Soon, I will be forced with a decision to make: Do I dishonor my commitment to myself to give her more time, or do I extend the deadline based on the progress that I'm seeing and the work that we are both doing to get through this?

Will extending the deadline be ignoring the boundary that I've established? Part of me feels that it will. Another part of me believes that sometimes it is best to be flexible with certain boundaries.

In the FAQ section of the article on    
Boundaries Tools of Respect (https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a120.htm) we find:


(emphasis mine)

I'm still not certain that I'm willing to move off my boundary, but it seems silly to throw it all away based on an date that I selected because she isn't doing what I want, how I want, when I want. But, then again, I have learned that I must respect myself, what I want, what I need, and what I believe is right. Relationships require compromise though, but I don't want to wait forever for something that may never happen.

Thoughts?

With all due respect, if you are growing a plant, you don't actually put a deadline on it and say... if you haven't bloomed by 2 September, I'll throw you away, ... .do you? Organic things don't care about your deadlines - only you do. Only you can decide which is more important, organic growth or your decision. I can't and shouldn't say anything more persuasive. Only that bending the rules does not mean waiting forever.

Thank you very much for that FD! 

excellent point FD... .Meili I agree... .if things are continuing to improve and grow... .and if its with her that you heart lies... .don't quit... .and don't think that moving your deadline is a violation of your boundaries. relationships take time and compromise.

  Meili,

Beautiful OB and Foggy! Agree with you both.

You have made such good progress and things are going wonderful for you both. Congrats. Love is the key and always wins, just as light over darkness.

In the Universe like Foggy said with the plant all things grow and take time and care. When a farmer plants a seed he doesn't run out an tear it out to see if it will grow. He waters it nurtures it and gets the weeds away from it. ( the weeds are the hurt in the relationship or problems).

Sometimes we become scared to love again, fearing that the cheating, arguing, fights, boredom, stagnation or whatever else caused the breakup, will come back into our lives many more times. The heart is capable of loving infinitely, and all of the time. Just like the flow of life is never supposed to dry up, nor is the flow of love energies from our hearts. But fears dam this up... .even though they are not supposed to.

If you are feeling like this though, there is something you can do in the form of releasing fear. Fear is the #1 blocking force when it comes to love, but when you work on releasing it, you dissolve the blocks which have stopped the love coming in a second time. Then you must put the faith, hope and trust into you both. She must also. Helps if you keep talking through this as you know, so no one is hurt wondering or sad.

So once you banish that fear  again when comes up use your faith. Faith may begin like a tiny seed. When we exercise our faith, it grows. Let’s compare it to planting a seedling. ( Like Foggy said) We tend to it, fertilize (nourish) it, and it grows. We need to keep the weeds away from it. Our spirituality or relationships, friendships, etc are much the same way.


Take the analogy of planting a tree. You think about which type of tree you want, is it a perennial, is it deciduous, what height does it grow to etc. You then plant the tree. You feed it often, make sure it is growing straight, check on it every day. Once you have let go you no longer check on it, you expect the tree to grow, you don’t worry that it is not going to grow, you don’t worry that it is not growing quick enough, you just let it go and enjoy the tree for what it is. You want it to eventually have the strength of the tree over the years to withstand illness, fights and everyday life. With that you will. Love is the key. As long as you both share the lock and key tada.
 
Keep grounded in faith, push away any fear, have love, and respect and walk each other through it. Love is really worth it, and you are fighting for it so keep going.

So as you know you can't just wish for it, you needed to do the inner work and reach out which you did. She then starts back and how beautiful.

It can help you allow it by the time you want. And you allow the perfect time by feeling good as much as possible. And, you will write your novel of your relationship in your heart and mind then work on it with her. So that it happens much quicker by being in a good feeling, allowing state, than a not good feeling, resistance state.

If eventually she doesn't want that or reach out then yes move on but until then nurture it as you are, make it happen. You love her and she you keep working on that foundation. How beautiful and I see it great for you both.

Treat it anew as you are with courting, romance and when problems or past hurts arise maybe do like Mayo suggested in one of my posts and agree to talk it over a little bit each day for a few. It shouldn't take long if both healthy, honest and you let her address then no longer will be an issue. As new fun memories build on the old great ones along with your hobbies and everything else then it builds to wonderful foundation again.

Keep us updated. How awesome truly!

Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement!

I would love to write something as equally beautiful or enlighteing as what you are saying to me, but the truth is that my mind is currently awash with the turbulence of emotions. Unlike the past several months, the emotions are not of fear, hurt, or anger. It is optimism, love, and passion that are currently swirling around.

There is now, no doubt in my mind as to whether or not she loves me or if she wants to reconcile. She has proven both without question. She has shown me what I perceive as significant changes in herself and how she acts towards me. Maybe those things have been there all along and I was just too blind to see them. I know not. It doesn't really matter either way. The important thing is that they are there now and I can see them.

She is putting forth more effort now than I could have ever imagined a few weeks ago. In fact, given where we were six months ago, I would never have dared to dream that she would ever tell me that she loves me, much less show it.

The seed has been planted, yes. Now, I must tend it and watch it grow. The hard work, for me, is just beginning. Impatience, insecurities, and history are the weeds that will destroy the seedling if I allow them. Faith will be the nutrient that combats them.

There are moments when I struggle though; questioning everything. It is history (hers, mine, and ours) that causes that. Both of us struggle with this. I know that together we can get through if we lean on one another. There is no delusion that I will not be able to lean on her in a conventional sense. The support that she gives me is not direct like it would be in a healthy relationship. It comes from her unspoken actions now.

Both of us need to see consistency in the other. Both of us need to know that we are loved, valued, and honored. Both of us need to see it for an extended period of time. As LR mentioned, we are creating a brand new relationship now and I need to treat it as such. If she was someone that I just met, I would believe myself crazy if I thought at this point that we should jump into a full-fledged relationship.

But, here I sit, ruminating once again about her words and actions. Before it was about all of the hurtful things that were said and happened. Now it is about all of the loving things that she's said to me and what she is showing me. In each case, then and now, I couldn't/can't get her out of my mind. Then I couldn't breath, now she takes my breathe away.

It's funny to me that I can help (or at least try to help) people recovering from a failed relationship get through the ruminations, obsessions, and emotional upheaval; yet now that I'm experiencing the opposite of that I have no clue what to do.

I guess that 40+ years of programming that has taught me to deal with the worst things that life has to give up has provided me with a plethora of tools for coping in those situations. Never before have I had to face the converse though. I'm actually at a loss.

Meili,

Told you wouldn't be back unless someone addressed... .hehe so since you did... .( hugs to you both I am so proud of her and you, truly). Someone has resonated with me on a board that I belong in helping me deal with an issue for my Dad. They got sick and had thanked them and their spouse ( not on there, but her giving time for help spouse to help me, as we have to value the ppl who help on our path).  She came on for first time to give me more I needed help with, then thanked me as she joined. He was over moon, as been asking her for awhile. Now they have a new hobby ... .hehe So I only came to give you both a hug and say love makes the world go around, but is very special between two. Thanks as well for letting me see you both work on it for you. Beautiful! Can't wait to hear more of both of your joy.

When we are hurt it is tempting to focus on the difficult and less than appealing elements of the loved ones and our relationship. But couples who work through difficult times keep their eyes on the positives and can clearly say why they want to stay with this person and what they love about them. This step can also give you clarity. If the only reason you can think of to stay together is that you dread the task of separating, that may not be enough to get you through.Which was not the case here. By clarifying what has worked in your relationship, you can build on those things and stay motivated to do the repair work needed.

That is what is beautiful here, we clarified in the beginning of working on this thread is she the love you really love? Deep down love not lust? You said love, and why. You chose her and what you both had.
 
Read my first paragraph again... .even though you are doing inner work, you still have concentrated on the love you felt all along what you both had and do have. Many aren't willing to do the work to make the love work. It is truly worth it in a throw away society.

Did some work at a retreat recently about love and why it is so worth to keep that alive. What to question within yourself. The homework was sweet to me to read through. Loving your higher power ( God) and yourself is so important as well as bringing that to your relationships or friendships.

When you put love first and in your heart all falls into place. Sure there will be life and problems but love does truly have alchemy to transmute pain, and heartache to beautiful things.

Beginning again with a partner means making a clear choice to do so, to let the past rest,( after work through and choice) to take the risk of trusting again, and to love them more because you appreciate the work you have each put in to stay in relationship and you acknowledge the risk.  Yes need to understand talk it through, so yes starting over but still have the base of "us" in the two of you is why you will be more successful then 80% of relationships out there according to research. Just for the simple fact you both are learning and willing to try again, with same love, same relationship of the past with a new way.

Most of the time fresh starts never materialize because those who use and stay in NC have primitive relationship skills in how to get their needs met. They create walls to survive instead of mutual agreements or working on things such as I love you, lets start over. The only way they know how to do it is to say gotta leave to take care of myself.

Those who push through and I said before there are no limits. Love is the key, see the value not only of the other person, of themselves of the relationship and put them all together for a beautiful new start. Some look at starting over as a failure or why do if it didn't work. That is setting yourself up to fail.

If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. So if you put your higher power first, then yourselves then your relationship you will come into as not failure, not really even a fresh start as well yes it is but as a I love you, we never let that go. Now how can we make it show and work.

Changing one aspect of the equation ( you) changes the dynamic and the results are electrifying. With a new improved version of your self even just an awareness you can work to produce different results. What I keep pointing out to some is we all have different love languages or ways to understand things ( reminder to me), just even learning that changes how you would approach things for yourself or others.

If you have gained some new tools, read some more books, took time to look within, you can never have the same relationship again, it can only be better. Which what some fear is really the gift those of us who want have pushed past for. Being better with the one you love and yourself is to let you both have better versions of yourself and your relationship.

I know for myself I am forever changed now that I understand BPD as I don't have to internalize the hurt from my Mom and sbxBPD in doing so makes more room now in my life, heart and core for just plain love for others, my children etc. Love was always there and very important to me, but hurt can cause pain and grief. Even if you are a I will make my own happiness and pick my own flowers person. I have always been the optimist, now I can live it more in joy and not question the hurt of others that they themselves need to work through sometimes.

Beautiful thing even the emotional vs logical thread. I had my son read as he is very logical and needs little more emotional understanding. I vice versa and I have been going through a tough time with something, and he pointed out a few things to me that helped me. You need both for a balanced mind. So this made us both have an aha moment in helping me.

You both are doing wonderful, keep going, thanks for sharing and caring enough about each other to put yourselves first. First in love and choice and a new relationship start.

Good luck to you, see the love and keep living the LOVE.  

I couldn't agree with you more about the need to fight for the relationship rather than just throwing it away when it gets hard. That's what I did in the past. When it got too hard and too painful, I threw it away. I would cut off all communication with her and hide. Sometimes I even tried to just move on with my life without her.

I really hadn't given this the proper credence, but yano, she had every reason and right to keep moving on after I threw the relationship away. She hasn't. She's made the choice to continue to try to figure out if we can get passed the hurt and bad memories. I need to remember that when I start to feel insecure.

Something else that I've discovered is that by fighting together, rather than with one another, the warm, loving feelings are almost as intense as the highs that come with idealization. It isn't the same adrenaline rush, that's for sure, but it's still deeply intense and powerful. Also, it doesn't have the withdrawal that the other does.

As an added benefit, it makes me want to fight harder to make the relationship work. It isn't the frantic, obsessive necessity like when it first ended. It comes from a position of strength now. It feels far more real, important, and mature. With each issue we face together, it feels like it strengthens my resolve to make this work.

So, I am trying to show her consistency and lead the way for us to move forward with a future together. So far she's seemed receptive. Maybe she'll be able to make it over that final hurdle.

Meili,

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am very happy for you and it is So encouraging to hear progress for once, although I know there is still a long road ahead. This is all new to me, but I wanted to ask, as my marriage is similar to yours, what clicked for you? What made you finally realize your own behaviors and what made you actually change them and stick to them? What skills do you find using the most? Although I am trying and not wanting to!, I find myself adding fuel to the fire when we get into it. I dont want to though! I want to be the emotional stability and leader that is needed, and I am trying. I need to let go of the past and live in our relationship with love and trust, not conflict and argument.

Method

  Method!

When I first landed on these boards I was like a lot of people on the "detaching" forum. I was hurt and angry, but mostly I was confused. How could something so good have gone so wrong? I had been blaming my x the entire time. In fact, I blamed her when I gave her the ST. I blamed her for my seeking validation from another woman. I blamed her for my not feeling wanted and loved.

One of the very first things that I learned here was stop the bleeding and conflict, I had to change how I responded to situations. That caused me to look at how I had been responding and it all became very clear to me that I was adding to the problems as much, and more in some cases, than she was. I had to figure out why I did that.

At this point, I was still trying to move on and completely end the relationship forever with my x. I knew that I needed to change the things about myself that were damaging to the relationship if I was going to have a healthy one with someone else. That's why I started to do the work to facilitate change.

In the course of doing that, I started to feel a deep sense of compassion for what she was experiencing because I experience quite similar things as a result of childhood. Prior to the point of working to change, I had never realized just how deeply my upbringing has impacted my life and relationships. But once the compassion kicked in, it all be very clear to me. I could see all of the bad things that I did in my relationship with my x.

It was at this point that I realized that I was honestly in love with this woman. It wasn't lust, about what she could do for me, or even the addiction that comes from high conflict relationships. It was actual, life-time commitment love.

I had a compulsion to reach out to her and apologize. I didn't do it in hopes of reconciling, or even with any idea that she'd ever speak to me again. She had moved on, new friends, new bf who was worshiping her, etc. Against the advice of most, I sent her a letter apologizing for all that I had done. It was not well received. I do think that it was when the seed was planted though.

There were many fights that followed that took the same patterns as those we had when we were together. I realized that I was still getting it all wrong. I was still being defensive and accusatory, wasn't listening to what she was actually telling me, and didn't care what her position was. I knew the tools, but just wasn't using them. I even went so far as to bring the very woman that I cheated on my x with to a public event that I knew my x would be at out of petty spite and anger.

Sometime shortly after that, the addiction broke and all that was left was that warm fuzzy feeling. No longer did I have the anxious, frantic obsession. I was able to accept the damage that I had caused and that she may never come back, and that she certainly never would come back if I kept up those types of behaviors.

Things were very quiet most of that time between her and I. I was in therapy and working on my issues from my family. One day it hit me, as silly as this sounds, that having the knowledge wasn't enough, I actually have to use it. So, I started to use it. I started trying to listen with empathy, set boundaries on what I would and would not accept and not invalidate her at every turn.

The effect was profound! She started to change in the way that she interacted with me. The contact became more frequent, productive, and meaningful. There were still (and still are) many repeat discussions about what I did and how I treated her. But, rather than them being screaming matches where no one is heard, the other is always wrong, and someone must be right; they were actual discussions.

The change in the dynamic provided the fuel for the change in the relationship. It allowed her to feel more safe and secure. Seeing the changes became the place of strength from which I draw whatever is necessary to keep moving forward even when I'm hurt, scared, or just ready to give up.

During my entire life, I have never really committed to anything, but watching the transformation that has occurred because of my relationship with my x, I am now committed to making it work with her for as long as she wants. Part of that making it work means that I must work on me and my own issues.

Sorry this was so long. I hope that I answered your questions. I'll happily provide more detail on any of it if someone wants any.

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