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I think I need another perspective on something. I feel my wife is withholding her feelings of love towards me hostage because I do not initiate intimacy enough with her. We have gotten in the never ending circular discussion/argument about this.

Her " I would show you love if you would initiate sex more." Me " I might feel more romantic if you told me you loved me or attempt to tell me you love me."

She keeps telling me to look up on the internet how to be more romantic to your wife. And you want to know what? I have done that. I actually have been doing a lot of the things I found there. Leaving notes for her. Buy her flowers out of the blue. Tell her she looks attractive (even in front of family or strangers). Back rubs, foot massages. So when I explained this to her she just said you do those all the time. You are supposed to. I want more than just that. More physical things. 

Well here in lies my dilemma. After years and years of her not expressing her love and exchanging it will "I hate you. Or "I don't like you." Or my favorite. "You are ok some times but most of the time I tolerate you barely." So the big question think I know the answer to is this" Is she holding back her feelings for me to get sex from me?
"If you just gave me sex you would be amazed at how this would all turn around for you."

So... .no.

I remember a point with you and your wife (several years ago) when you were doing everything she asked, in the exact way she asked, whenever she asked.

Foot rubs, back rubs, notes, flowers, being available to her for sex whenever she demanded.  And this was in addition to all the other demands she was making at that time -- the texts and emails and phone calls from work, all day and every day.  Even walking her to the bathroom when she needed to go in the middle of the night (are you still doing that?).

Cipher, her "rationalizations" about the relationship being better "if only... ." you do this or that are just the rationale du jour.  It may all be different tomorrow. 

Gargl
Yes basically still doing those things. I have also added a few new ones. I knew the answer when I posted it but need the validation of an outsider to trust my own feelings. How crappy is that. I keep telling her I am trying and I will do better and she keeps telling me I am saying that but not actually doing that. Finally I just said maybe I am doing the best I can at this point and I am just not good enough to meet all your expectations. Radio silence from that comment so far.

I guess hate sex is out of the question?

Just joking, LOL!

The point is her ever expanding list of demands will always be expanding no matter how much you try to fulfill.  She holds herself on up on a pedestal of victimhood and expects you to worship her for it.  In order for her to stay on that victim pedestal she has to keep having things be wrong and be victimized by everything and everyone.

I understand what we say about validation on this site, why it's important, however, I think we have to be careful to not validate things that should not be validated as well. At some point, we all need to learn the balance point, hold them accountable and not validate what should not be validated, and let go of trying to control the outcome.  Do what is healthy by you.  If it causes a break in the relationship, then so be it.

Ultimately, the one with the most power is the one willing to walk away.  But it's not power over the other person.  It's really having the most empowerment of yourself.

I think you should severely limit the time you spend talking about this. 

Do more, talk way less.

Right now you are playing by her rules.  Those are unhealthy rules...

What does this look like for you?  Thoughts?


FF

FF
Can you elaborate more on what you mean by Do more talk less. What does this look like? Thoughts?

I am playing by her rules and have been for 15 years now. To speak of the list of demands I was thinking about this last night. They have all started out innocent and with a willingness to do something nice and loving. They end up turning out to be requirements to prevent fights and arguments. Let me paint a brief picture if I may.

Last night she asked me to get out her fish oil pill from the freezer for her. We keep them in the freezer (just something that seems to help with taste... not having to taste it) anyway she is walking past the freezer as she is saying this. I said as you are walking past them and your water cup is where you are heading anyway shouldn't you just grab one. Usually in a teasing tone "No your closer beside you always get it for me. Don't piss me off." Then I cave. I am sick of how I cave and how it makes me feel so worthless inside. Doing something nice for someone makes you feel good. This no longer does. I feel worthless and like a slave. The thing with the sex is really no different. I feel like I have to not that I even want to anymore.

Um, yeah: You're her female dog.  Time to grow a pair, my friend.  Tell her no (nicely).  If you "piss her off", remove yourself from any abusive situation.  Then do it all again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  Weather the extinction bursts.  Behavior modification isn't easy.

Stop talking about the relationship.  In reality, just talk way less about it.  DO more things for the relationship and for her.  Bring her a glass of water, unsolicited backrub... .etc etc. 

My understanding of the sex thing is that she wants you to chase her more... .correct?  So... .do it!  Don't pester her by asking if it is ok.  Do it and move on.  Express that you like it and that you value her (don't go over top with lovey dovey).

Big picture  Trying to get into r/s conversations with her is usually going to fail.  Especially if she is picking time and place.  When she wants to talk r/s your goal is to slow down and set a time

her "blah blah blah... .you are pissing me off, you never (you get picture)

you "Oh my honey... .this sounds serious.  You are important to me and I want to be able to give you my full attention.  Does 6pm sound work for you to get together and discuss this?"

her "blah blah blah

you "I will be available to talk about our r/s at 6"  walk away. 

When she threatens "I'm not able to continue this conversation with threats between us.  Let's try to talk at 6."  walk away

her "Please get me a  fish oil pill" 

you "Sure thing babe.  I'll be able to grab that for you in about 10 minutes" 

If you don't want to... ."no" works wonders...

Suggesting what she should do is about the worst thing possible.  Stay positive and give her time or say no.  After you have said no... .let her sort it out. 

If she gets upset  "Is it not safe to say no to your request?"  (leave and let her squirm with it)

Hope this helps.   
FF
FF