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of a pwB/NPD being able to understand they are part of a chaotic realtionship, responsible for some pretty serious stuff and actually seeking help?

And getting better?

My ideas on this so far (on my situation) are that it (the chances) are pretty slim.

Talk of divorce 9 months ago provoked no real questions or solutions to underlying problems, and no permanent changes.

Yes some fleeting temporary smiles, but that was about it.

Would actual physical separation be more of a motivator?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Definitely more of a chance that separation will "help". 

IMO... .pwBPD "listen" more to actions than words. 

The issue is that by the time separation comes around, many "nons" are done.  And if you get back together, you need to be careful that it is done in a healthy way.  More on that later.

FF

It's a huge mountain to climb, with each step more difficult to achieve... .

1. Acknowledgement
2. Ownership
3. Seeking treatment
4. Sticking with treatment

Plenty of pwBPD acknowledge they can behave badly.  Sometimes the behaviors just speak for themselves and are undeniable.  But they can also rationalize it, minimize it or deny it later.

Far fewer actively own their role in the dysfunction.  Those that do often think they have "seen the light", then decide to self-treat... .until they dysregulate and are back to square one.

Someone who decides to seek outside help deserves a huge pat on the back because this is the start of real help... .but also often the end of real help.  Far too often the pwBPD will reach a point in their treatment where they consider themselves "healed", stop treatment, eventually dysregulate and go back to square one.  Other times the treatment doesn't go in the direction they had hoped... .often getting challenged by the therapist in an uncomfortable manner... .then they paint the therapist black, quit and go back to square one.

For the very few who actually stay the course and are in treatment for years, it is still a challenge.  But this is the only way they truly are going to help themselves.

Understanding that each of these steps have to be taken willingly by the pwBPD, that these steps cannot be forced upon them, emphasizes the difficulty of setting any expectations on changes by our pwBPD.

This is why I think it's best that the default expectation must be "my pwBPD will not change".  Should you accept this premise and want to stay in the relationship, any changes must come from you (e.g. using the tools taught here, learning the importance of setting and enforcing boundaries).  Only you can decide if you are up for this.

Thanks HD, fills in many of the gaps of my simple observations.

We tried joint therapy a while ago on my insistance. The T was supposedly up to speed on BPD. We lasted 2 sessions and the T. was painted a nice shade of dark black!

I'm avoiding pulling our r/s apart at the present time (with W. that is - we've done that so many times in the past), and pointing fingers, but now W. viscously blames divorce on my total lack of inaction and discussion over a period of years.

According to my recollection (emails and diaries) the complete opposite is the case.

I think with these as starting points the task of making things better is a task that is beyond me.

Even the idea of your point 1 "acknowledgement" is still a million miles away.

Making things better is hard.  you can only make better things under your control.

www.my-borderline-personality-disorder.com is a website by a lady who has put in years of work in managing, if not outright overcoming, her BPD.  She and her pwBPD guest bloggers share their stories.  It's readily apparent that the struggle to get a handle on BPD is long and difficult.  It gives you a glimpse into what your wife would need to do.

Hey earlgrey,

Let's face it: the chances of success aren't great, which is why in my view most BPD relationships are not built to last.  I agree w/HopefulDad that changes tend to be temporary and fleeting.  I knocked myself out for years trying to come up with different solutions and approaches, but BPD proved too complex for me.  Modest gains were soon erased.  Therapists and MCs, as HD notes, only lasted for a few visits before getting painted black.  Even the worst behavior was rationalized or, better yet, projected on me as the "cause" of it.  It's unusual for a pwBPD to take personal responsibility for his/her disorder, in my view, because that would involve acknowledging one's flaws, which is unthinkable according to their black/white worldview.  Yes, you can learn to work around it by using the tools, which help to some degree, but it's still rough sledding.

LuckyJim