BPDFamily.com

I have been with my boyfriend for 5 1/2 yrs.  From day one I saw that he had some jealousy issues, and this was foreign for me. I am very trusting, and have always been very loyal!  His ways were different for me.  I realized quickly that my sense of humor, and ability to laugh with anyone, man or woman turned into being a very bad thing!  My spark was dimmed early on.  However, he is a very generous person, funny person & I will always be grateful for the things he has helped me and my daughters with!  I am not young, almost 50, so this is hard for me... .I've never been in a relationship where someone could so easily scream at me, and call me awful names. Things I would never even think of saying.  I love him and care for him, however his constant accusations and questioning me (we do not live together) have taken a toll on me.  Calling me at work to "talk" and late into the night and early morning.  But the conversations are the same... .they keep going in circles, with his same accusations, and crazy thoughts, that I am "up to something" or messy with someone else, or doing drugs and lying to him!  I am afraid of his anger that seems to come out of no where... .and I am afraid that when we do talk, if you can call it that, that he won't accept that I am done, and will harass me.  I don't want any harm to come to him, because I know that he has a disorder of somekind, and I do feel that this is not his fault.  He will tell me that he doesn't mean what he says when he yells, but I tell him, how do I know that you mean anything you say?  I guess I'm just looking to see if anyone knows of the best way to get out of a toxic relationship like this has become, without it becoming crazy ugly.
Thanks for reading and listening!

Hey Roselee,

You are welcome here. I am glad you found the site. It's been really helpful to me, and many others, in dealing with a whole variety of issues that we face when in a difficult relationship with a partner who appears to have Borderline Personality Disorder. There are great resources and great people here who will understand what you are going through.

The situation you describe with your partner does sound difficult. Jealousy, control, and yelling are not things you need to put up with.  You also have your children to consider. How old are they and do the live with you?

I too felt that "my spark dimmed" after a while and I could not really be my usual social self in the same way because every interaction I had seemed to make him feel insecure. However much I fought against that controlling me, it did have an effect on me. And I also felt actually afraid of ending the relationship. I was concerned he would harass me and speak ill of me to others.

In the end, those fears evaporated by themselves in my case, because I became more focused on how unloved I felt and eventually was able to feel that I'd had enough.

I can tell you right now that if you are clear on what you need and want to do for yourself - it is much, much easier. Sometimes things can become "ugly", as you say, but if you are stable in your own mind, then whatever ugliness ensues is outside of you.

Can you tell us about what steps you have taken so far? Have you tried to discuss and end the relationship? Please tell us more so that we can help better.

Thank you for responding!  I have told him that I am over this, and this relationship can't possibly last with him having these thoughts and constantly "garbage dumping" on me, bringing up crazy things from years ago. Saying that my girls (19 & 22, live with me when not away at college) have bought him the same Christmas gifts for 2 years in a row, and that I buy it for them anyway... .both of which are totally not true.  I'm proud that my girls buy their own gifts even while on a college student budget.  I have reminded him that his kids, 22 & 24 have not ever bought me a Christmas gift, and I never have complained because I understand the $ issues of the young. He is light a switch, one moment he will say he is done with this, and says he means it this time, and I say ok, then he'll act so appalled and crazed and blame me for braking up.  I never throw that term around loosely.  I am afraid of him saying awful things about me to others, as you stated.  But I guess people will have to judge for themselves. But friends love him, and think he is the greatest, funniest and generous guy.  Which he can be... .but with me, he will remind me of the stuff he's done for me.  I just feel like I am a terrible example to my daughters. I pretty much keep the things he says to me to myself... .just too embarrassing to tell anyone.  If my girls had someone in there life that spoke to them they way he has spoken to me, I would be all over them not to take that and preach how they are so much better than that.  All the things I know and have preached to them their whole lives... .I feel very pathetic. 

Hi Roselee-

I join VitaminC in welcoming you and agree with everything she said, and to add, two official traits of the disorder are "frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment" and "inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger", both of which seem to apply based on what you've told us; the late night phone calls and accusations would stem from fear of abandonment for a borderline.

There are lots of good resources on this site, and plenty of people who have been through difficult breakups, so keep typing and you'll find support.

Take care of you!

 

You don't sound one bit pathetic, Roselee! On the contrary, you sound together. I absolutely understand how you might feel that way, however. I have never felt as low, confused, and incapable as during the months that I was working towards finishing my relationship.

If he has BPD, then his poorly controlled (and controlling) behaviours will really only be visible to those closest to him in his life. You are right to say that "people will have to judge for themselves", if he says anything negative about you to anyone. Do you have a good reason to believe that he might? Can that, even if it came to pass, actually do you any damage?

Generally, people know that there are two sides to every story and that the intricacies of a relationship are not black and white. For anyone that does end up "on his side" - do you really need or want them in your life anyway?

As for his saying that he is done, and then changing his mind - that too is familiar to many of us here on the site. Why do you take him back in those instances?
If you decide that you need and want the relationship to be over, you can say so simply and clearly, and then not discuss it any further.

That's easy to say, of course. It seems that you are quite resolved in wanting this and are just a little worried about the consequences. Would that be right?

So my questions to you are:

a) why have you taken him back before?
b) is there anything else you are worried about in ending the relationship?

Thank you for that! I do feel better that I have reached out, as I have never posted anything ever anywhere!  I am looking forward to the time when I am not dreading leaving work because I am afraid I have no buffer at that point. I so want to turn my phone off, but also afraid that by doing so will just fuel him and he will take the ride (40mins) over to me. He does drink more than I like sometimes and smokes pot... .but I don't think that calms him anymore. I hate the fireball that is always living in my gut with the worry of his actions.  When I tell him that I am often on eggshells with him and that I consider him to be emotionally and verbally abusive, he mocks me saying "oh, right... .you're the victim".  I am praying constantly that he will just leave me alone and move on.  But, I am trying to brace myself, because I know that would be too good to be true.
Thank you again!  It's good to hear that the traits he has are "real", and I am not the sole cause of all his actions, like he says.

I have taken him back once before when we had a terrible fight.  He was very sorry, sent flowers, to work and home, cried. I do love him, so I was listening to him, he was calm in talking to me, and saying he knew what he was saying wasn't true.   I was telling myself that he has an issue, and he promised to seek help.  Which he half way attemped, but then it fell to the wayside.  So I thought he really realized this... .but now he started again with the whole same story.  Even as far as looking under the bathroom door to see what I was doing ?

I'm happy that you feel better for having reached out, Roselee.

The drinking and substance abuse is familiar too. Also the flowers / gifts and promises to change and even attempts at therapy - generally short lived. While BPD is treatable, it does require a real commitment on the part of the person. I had similar experiences to what you've described so far, although my own BPD ex was more passive-aggressive about his jealousy and only once raised his voice at me. Not all people with the disorder are the same, as you'll learn if you stick around and read some of the articles, book suggestions, workshops, and of course, the discussions.
However, there are many similarities.

I understand also the knot of anxiety in the stomach. It's your body speaking to you! It's good you're listening.

Where is your support in your day to day life? Are there friends or family members who can be pulled in for emotional support and to perhaps stay with you for a day here or there? What would be the worst that would happen if you, say, broke it off, told him you needed some peace and no further conversations for a while, and then refused to speak to him? If he drove to your home, you would not have to open the door to him. Right?

I think what needs to be looked at now is enforcing boundaries. Please have a look at this:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Boundaries are something that many members, whether at the end or in the midst of the relationship (or in the beginning!), struggle with.  This is a good read and important to consider.

Will you have a look and let us know what you think about how it might apply to you and your situation?

If you want out of the relationship, then step one is that decision, and step two is anticipating what kinds of things might happen and how you will deal with them. It's doable! :)

VitaminC,

Thank you for that Link!  I have definitely let him override my boundaries!  My whole life, I have been a independent, caring, non-confrontational, social type of person!  I don't like to yell, or like the idea of arguing at all... .and I think that is why I have let this relationship go on as long as it has. I have always stood up for myself, but I do tend to get emotional about it.  I guess because he would go so long and be so good and generous without issues, I would think "he's better".  I just don't want to go through another round.

I fully admit, I miss the person that I used to be, and I want to be her again!  I want to fully laugh at a social gathering, and not be questioned later why I was laughing like that. I want to be able to talk at that same social gathering, and not be questioned about the details of what I said afterwards.  I want to be able to tell a story about a co-worker, and not be drilled thinking I got something going on with them.  I want to be able to say, I'm tired, I'm going to bed early tonight, and not get called at 11:00 and woken up, just to be asked what I'm doing.  I want to be able to say, I have to stop over my girlfriends house, she's having a tough time, and not be ridiculed that I wouldn't do that for him.  I want to be able to take a sick day when I'm really sick, and not be harassed with phone calls all day about what I'm doing.  I want to be able to take a long hot shower, and not be questioned about why I was in there so long.  I want to be able to use the toilet and not have someone looking under the door wondering what I'm doing in there.  I want to be able to be at work and be working, and not have to explain that I'm really working.
Wow... .really crazy when I actually list the things... .I'm sad! I realize that I push a lot of his actions away in a secret file... .too embarrassed to share with anyone.

He is talking to me, kinda like all is good, but I feel it, and I know that at any moment he will change again.  And you are right to say that if he shows up at my door I would NOT let him in.   
Very thankful I found this site!  Right now, I am working through the process of how I will brake it off.  I know if will be long & drawn out, and I am working on mentally preparing myself for that.  I know this is what I need to do... .I feel that I am just putting off the inevitable.
Thanks for all your encouraging words!

You never will be.  You'll be a wiser, more aware, more experienced version of yourself, everything you were before with the added sensory acuity to spot disordered individuals early and easily and remove them from your life.  That can be considered the gift of the relationship, and a worthy goal to help you extract yourself from it, grieve it, and begin creating the life of your dreams as quickly as possible, yes?

Hi Roselee,

Your list is pretty powerful. Keep that one and read it over and add to it as more things come to you.

What FromHeelToHeal has said is really worth listening to. It is what has happened to me, and far far quicker than I thought it would be possible!

Breaking off a really stultifying, confusing, and anxiety-producing relationship released me from such a tangle of guilt and self-doubt, reigning myself in in ways I never had before, slowly turning into someone I barely recognized. It was only because I had friends outside of the relationship that I was even able to remember who I was before it!

And finding this site helped me to understand that I was dealing with something specific. It wasn't just my own issues (self-esteem that led me to become dependent on someone who appreciated me and made me feel very special, for a while), which led to what we call co-dependency around here, which led to a gradual but marked diminishing of me as a person.
The thing I was dealing with, and all of us here are or have dealt with, is the mental illness of a partner.

That mental illness expresses itself in particular ways and can be tricky to diagnose. There's a pretty comprehensive summary here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder.  Don't get overwhelmed at all the readings! :)

I came to the site the first time last December. I was active reading many of the member's stories and the resources for about a month. I felt clearer than I had in months and months. I started to understand that I was really up against it in this relationship and realised that I was actually pretty fed up.

Then I had a little wobbly. For about 3 months I was in and out, back and forth. We were more apart than together. Stupid arguments that went round and round. Accusations by him of me having a hormonal problem (!), being depressed or at least "a very unhappy person", not being committed, being nasty to him. All ridiculous things. Interspersed with that were nice little moments; thoughtful gestures, sweet words, the usual. But less and less.

I told him " I can't wait for the increasingly elusive moments anymore. There are not enough of them to sustain me. The relationship does not nourish me"
That became fodder for further accusations. Sigh.

And I kept trying to leave, but something was still niggling at me and I felt like I couldn't figure it out on my own, away from the evidence of his obnoxious, controlling, and insecure behaviours. I needed to have it proven to me a few more times.  I am really slow in some ways.  lol

I had to get hurt a bit more before I felt the final sickening feeling of just grossness, I don't know how else to describe it. It was all a bit gross and really meaningless. I thought about how excited I could get playing with his kid on the playground, how silly and goofy I could be with my co-workers, how transported at the magic of a little flower caught in the sunlight in a particular way. I know, a bit sentimental, when I write it like that.  But I thought of those things and how alive I am to people and beauty and and how drained I was whenever I was around him.

I stopped worrying about what he might do, to me, to others, to himself, stopped caring about his reaction at all, and thought "what the hell, I am not in prison, why am I acting as if am?"  On the final morning I was with him, it struck me and told him " I've been thinking about what you said most recently, that I am an unhappy person. Actually, the only thing in my life that makes me unhappy is this relationship". I said it kind of wonderingly, but he jumped out of bed and hopped around the room (kind of comically) putting on a sock, then a t-shirt, then underpants, then the other sock, then a tie, then he removed the tie, then some pants, all the while saying "what you're saying doesn't get to me. you don't upset me anymore. I can't even hear you".   I just watched him from the bed, kind of agog, it was funny but also very sad, and a little scary.

The last time I left his house, I said little, but I knew it was done for me. I knew I didn't need to learn a single other thing. 

I say all this because it seems to me that you are at the end of this process. That you're fed up of being controlled is good. No one needs to be controlled! You don't have to allow it anymore.

Time to make a plan? Share it here, if you like. It will help to write it out and make it more concrete. If you want feedback, let us know. If you don't, say so, and we'll just read and support you through it. All the stages. From now onwards.   :)

No more being embarrassed. There's no need at all.

x

Hi Roselee,

I'm wondering how you are :)

Vitamin C,

Wow... .you are so me!  I keep asking myself, why do I constantly keep looking to find the good and the, wait, I'll give him one more chance, it's not his fault it's his mind.  Maybe I can help?

This past weekend was the worst!  Friday, I thought, ok... .this will be it, I will see if this can go any further. All was good, atleast ok, and I thought he was really going to make an attempt. But before I left to go to his house, I was picking up on weird things he was saying, I had doubts and shared with him that maybe it wasn't a good idea to go over. He apologized and said no, come.
As soon as I get there, he asked if I wanted to do some coke. This has been one of his crazy suspicions about me, & it's ludicrous! Im going to be 51, & the idea of doing anything like that is beyond insane. And again makes me sad that he would even think this of me.
Anyway, I said "No, why would you ask that?"He starts telling me that he "stumbled" upon some in his house. Long story short, he proceeds to get a bathroom trash bag out and starts unraveling all these tissues and papertowels, saying that they have cocaine residue on them... .and telling me to taste it! He even lite one of the tissues up, saying that it smells of cocaine. Scary and insane. Who in their right mind would even think of unraveling tissues. The week prior we had rented a house down the shore for vacation, and he said the same type tissues were in the bathroom there. Well, I guess so. These were tissues, and paper towels, that's it! Then the accusations started with who am I getting it from, who am I sleeping with to get it... .on and on and on. I proceed to leave, just for him to get into the driver's side of my car and tell me Im not leaving. I stood there for about 30 to 40 mins asking him to get out, and listening to him berate me, calling me a liar, wanting to know who I get the coke from, telling me I'm not leaving, I'm staying all weekend, if I leave, he's coming with me. Terrifying. I finally tex his sister in law telling her to send her husband (his brother) over asap. During this time, I see his neighbor across the street and I wave him over. He comes over, and I am embarrased, and ask him if he could please help me to go, I just want him out of my car and want to go home. He proceeds to tell him neighbor that he doesn't want me to go because I am under the influence and shouldn't drive. I tell him, no, I am completely sober! During this time, I am not yelling, I am totally calm and just trying to keep my head on straight, and focus on leaving. Finally, I don't remember how or what I said, he got out, and I left. Just to have his brother and friend pull in as I had just left. I knew he would be insane angry that I got his family involved, but I was more in fear for myself and him as well once I left. I thought there would be suicidal messages etc. Which there were, once they left at 1:30 am... .the voice mails and texts started. Calling me all kinds of names, and saying terrible things.
The rest of the weekend has been pretty much more of the same. Come night time, he is up and blows up my phone with voice mails and texts. I don't answer of course.  I thought of blocking him, but know it will make it worse. His crazy accusations that I am seeing someone else is relentlessly, and that I am doing coke... .I just have no words! Nothing I say will convince him. Then he says, ok I believe you... .only to be accusing me with it 15 mins later.
I don't know what to do at this point. I will get a tex telling me I'm with someone else... .the a minute after, asking if I want to know about a job offer he received.
I don't know whether to ignore him, or just keep reaffirming to him that he's wrong in his suspicions and accusations. I've been saying over and over, even said I would take a drug test, which I shouldn't have to do, but just to prove to him that he's wrong, so he can stop telling everyone. He even texted my daughter telling her I need an intervention, and apologizing to her to have to tell that. She responding saying only "my mom doesn't do drugs"
I told him to stop harassing me. My birthday is in a few days and I think he is under some kind of crazy idea that he will spend it with me.
I'm worried about him and me... .just don't know what to do at this point.

Hi Vitamin C... .Thanks for checking on me!  A lot of confusion right now as my recent post of the weekend has explained!  I have re-read your response to me the other day... .saying that you said "I am not in prison, why do I ask as if I am?" And the part about, maybe needing to be hurt a bit more to really be certain.  That's what makes me ill about myself!  I never realized I was that kind of person. I was always a "stand up for myself, don't take that from him" kinda woman.  I guess you really don't know who you are, until you are there. I am desperately trying to stay strong, and be the woman I know is still there.
About 10 years ago I was in a relationship with a man who I later learned suffered from Bi-Polar.  I was attracted to him when he was at his manic time of course. We were together for about 4 years, only for him to dive into a major depression that may have spawn from his ex or work. Whatever it may have been.  He wound up taking his own life. It was a terrible thing to get over, and I had come to grips with it realizing that Bi-Polar and someone who is suicidal is almost like a cancer, a disease that you can't fix for them.
Anyway, current day, he has brought this up to me... .saying "it's no wonder that other guy took killed himself" and "no wonder your divorced".  Sick stuff, and he's said it more that once, I'm embarrassed to say.   I can't forget those words, and he will tell me that actions speak louder than words... .I can't agree there!
I have only had 3 relationships in my life... .I think it's time for me to sit on the bench for a while!

So it doesn't seem to be getting any better.  His awful verbal abusive voice mails calling me awful names and texts are continuing.  He is convinced that I am using coke and sleeping around with my friends husbands.  I even went so far yesterday as to buy a drug test... .and sent him a picture of the results which were all negative for 4 major drugs... .including cocaine.  His response was that it doesn't mean anything... .could have been someone else urine... .and cocaine doesn't stay in your system that long anyway.  I responded by saying if I was the addict he portrays to be... .it would be in my system.  He's out of his mind with this obsession. The worst part about it is he has been restoring an old car of a couple who are friends of mine.  He of course thinks I'm sleeping with him too... .and that he's probably my connection for coke. If anyone out there knew me and these people, you would see how ludicrous this is!  Anyway, he is stating that he is not going to complete the job... .and for me to make arrangements to get the car out of his garage.  I told him, that was a business deal he made with them... .and I was out of it.  I am concerned now of course, that he will call them and say crazy things to them.  But I guess I just need to remember that he will just be showing his true colors to them.  I have tried to explain to him, calmly, through tears, yelling and actual drug testing... .that I am not using ANY drugs!  He still insists on calling me a liar.  At this point I think I need to stop responding... .I thought it might make it worse... .but at this point, I can't see it getting any worse.

  It does sound horrible, and staying bad or getting worse!

I doubt he can get much worse in how he blows up your phone.

How much will you see him in person this week? And do you spend time at his place, or does he spend time at your place, or is it a mix? I think you said you had separate residences, but also implied that you spend a lot of time with him too.

His behavior in person could escalate to being physically violent when you are with him in person.

FYI, preventing you from leaving is legally domestic violence. If he does that again, you can tell him this and that you are dialing 911 if he doesn't let you go. Don't do it unless you mean it--I recommend having your phone in your hand with 911 already entered ready to hit "send" if he doesn't immediately let you past.

Is that a new escalation on his part, or has he done that before too?

Are you familiar with JADE Roselee?  It's an acronym that expanded means justify, argue, defend or explain, and is a tool to be used when we are presented with a false accusation by a borderline and need to decide how to respond.  None of those things work, in fact they can make it worse, because a borderline's truth is their reality, so you defending yourself, and explaining, which is what you did with the drug test, and also arguing a little, it bangs up against a borderline's defense mechanisms, so all he hears is criticism and blame, which hurts, so he fires back.  Won't work.  There are other techniques, communication skills, that work better, all on the workshops board here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0).

Do you think your physical safety is in danger?  There are ways to deal with that calmly and with a plan, and this guy sounds volatile, so is that something that needs to be addressed?

Hi Roselee,

I am concerned at the behaviours you describe by your pwBPD. It seems matters have escalated and are spiralling upwards. You do need to put distance between you. You also need to stop worrying about him and focus on keeping yourself safe.

Note what GreyKitty said about his preventing your leaving, please. Note what FromHeeltoHeal said about arguing back or producing any evidence.

The more you try to reason, the more you will fail. You've seen this yourself. I understand that when someone begins to spin out of control like that, it can be hard to step back enough to see what's happening and to react appropriately. This is something that has to be learned, by most of us.

Who in your day-to-day life is aware of what's happening, how you are and how this relationship is affecting you? The incidents you describe are the facts of the matter; his stopping you from leaving (absolutely not ok, not under any circumstances, no), his wild accusations, his abusive phonecalls and text messages. Let his calls go to voicemal, if he leaves a message don't listen to it but do keep it. Don't read his text messages either, but keep them too. This is the evidence you need to be calmly gathering while getting and keeping yourself both psychologically and physically safe.

You have us for support and information. Who else is there that you can or do confide in?

Just one more thing:

I remember for months feeling like I was in an abusive relationship. I remember driving to his place, even though I did not want to go, but somehow finding myself on the road and saying to myself "why am I going there? I don't want to go, why am I driving there? Why?"
The best I could do at the time was to decide that I hoped for something to be different, that I just wanted the connection, that I had nothing else arranged that could take my mind off the craving to be with him, even though it made me feel terrible to be with him. I said these things to myself and still kept muttering to myself that I felt "abused" and was so surprised by this word popping into my mind that I just wondered at it and the situation and could not really believe it and didn't know how to stop it. I felt fearful and anxious, but about nothing specific really.

It was an extraordinary state to find myself in. And it made me feel very badly about myself for not being able to just stop it and be ok with stopping it.

I recall one friend losing her patience with me after I described one very strange incident in which the ex had some kind of episode - he used a little voice and started speaking about himself in the third person: " he's just ridiculous, jumping around like a fool prattling on about stupid stuff, can't control himself... ."  I don't remember exactly, he went on for a while and I didn't expect it and didn't know what to expect next. I wrote about it here once, I think. I just stiffened and listened and could not begin to react. My sense was just that I was in danger and I wanted to get away. But I didn't. I was paralyzed.

We were in a hotel at the time, away for a few days, and I wonder what would have happened if I'd left the room. Where would I have gone? Would he have followed me and started an argument in the hallway? Would it have escalated to his attempting to physically pull me back into the room? Would security have been called? Would I have just had to sleep on one of the couches in the foyer areas of the hotel? Not being prepared for the psychological impact on me, having no exit strategy, hating the thought of the kind of drama I associate with guests on a Jerry Springer show (or whatever the current equivalent is) and the embarrassment of it all contributed to my staying there and saying nothing. Very far from my usual "style".  The next day he acted completely normal, and because I was still so shaken by it and completely exhausted by this stage, I just acted normal too. The word normal in both our cases really needs to be in quotation marks, bold and italic script, and a gothic typeface as well.

A couple of days later I asked him about it. I said "what happened there that time" and he just shrugged his shoulders and looked away. We dropped it.

I described this incident to a very good friend, taking care to provide a multitude of contextualizing details, and she uncharacteristically cut me off and said "hey, that's abuse! It's abuse, can't you see that? You are being abused". We actually had an argument - I argued back because I was defending not him, but myself. She was not calling him an abuser, she was calling me a willing victim.   To be clear, that is what I heard, it is not what she meant.

My point is that it can be so hard to see what's happening, and then to admit that we feel powerless to act. There's shame in that, although there ought not be, and that is how abuse continues and gets worse.

Even now, months later, after all the reading and processing and 4 months of NC (today, as a matter of fact) I have trouble writing or thinking about that incident and all its ramifications and everything that was going on there.

Figuring out how and why we end up in these kinds of situations is important work, but it can only happen once we are not in the middle of it anymore. When things feel really dangerous, it is time to get some space.

Thank you all for your responses!  I will no longer respond to any of his texts or voicemails... .and not answer.  I would go a while not answering, then felt I had to defend myself somehow... and thought maybe if he read some sense ... .he would snap out of this.
Last night he was totally calm and the man I loved, acknowledging that he has issues and then tellling me he's sorry for all the horrible things he's said, that's how he reacts because he's hurt... .so on and so on.  I explained that I hear he's sorry... .but I wish I could say "it's ok" and move on... .but he did and said too much.  He understood my feelings.  Then he proceeds to tell me that he called my girlfriends husband (the man who's car he is restoring) and asked him if he does coke with me and questioning him about prior conversations they had, and if he's F'ing me.  I was appalled, but stayed calm.  He said he did apologize to him, and that all is good.  But anyway, the worse case scenario  is it makes him look like a f'n jerk not me.  And he added... .its not like he's going to see these people again.  We talked more about how I keep my private life private... .I don't air my problems, and what he did was out of line.  Conversation was very calm and good, and we ended it well.  I thought... .maybe if he's serious about getting help, and really working on himself, and writing the goals down like we mentioned, there could be hope in the future, after the bridges are mended.

I wake up this morning to a barrage of crazy texts and voicemails again.  I don't know what happened and what snapped in him again.  He was apparently up AGAIN all night... .by the looks of my phone log, the man hasn't slept in 5 days.  Now he said that he contacted the police to let them know if something happens to him, to contact me, because I will make it look like suicide. That I've done this before, and he is scared for his safety. He apparently gave them my info, and they told him not to contact me any further.  He told them that his son is licensed to have a gun, and that they will defend themselves if necessary.  I also received a phone call from my girlfriend, she said that he called and left several voice mails and texts on her husbands phone... .basically saying the same crazy stuff.  Thankfully she called me to see if I was ok! Asking if she should call him to reassure him.  I told her that wouldn't do any good at this point, may just make things worse.  He even said that he googled my phone number and my girlfriends husbands # and we had both checked out the same vacation spots... .saying he saw this by our phone numbers.  Total insanity... .I am at a loss.

I am feeling that I may have to contact the Police myself to document him.  I just don't no what to do ... .he's so volatile.  I had to tell a co-worker this morning about it... .because I came into work late, and I just feel I need to let someone here know.

Yesterday, he had asked if I was going to let him take me out for my birthday (today)... .and I said "I don't know... .because 2 hours ago you had called me the C word".  He said he understood... .and remained calm and I really thought I was getting through to him.  The crazy part is now, I'm thinking if I just said yes... .then maybe he wouldn't have gone off so crazy to everyone.  But I'm scared either way at this point... .just very confused! Don't know what to do... .I have my girls trying to get ready to leave for college soon... .I need to be a mother for them right now as well!

I never knew that JADE would be a bad thing!  I am very grateful for that knowledge!  And yes, it makes perfect sense! 

That paralyzing feeling Vitamin C was talking about and that "why am I driving over there... .I don't want to go"  knowing it would wind up bad.  I get that and totally relate!

I am sick right now... .I had to tell my daughter parts of what happened last night and this morning, because she called to wish me happy birthday and asked what I wanted to do later... .and I started to get upset ... .she was concerned saying Mom, whats wrong, are you crying?  I just feel awful getting them involved!  I just feel like I should be able to handle this on my own... .this shouldn't be something your kids have to deal with!  I'm supposed to be the stable one in their lives!

Hey Roselee-

Happy Birthday!


Yes, that would be a good idea.  Borderlines fear abandonment and hate losing an attachment, and without sleep he sounds like he's dysregulating in a big way and concocting his own version of reality, which he considers the truth, plus he's volatile.  That can be a dangerous mix, so best to use the resources at your disposal, and you really don't need this in your life yes?


Nope.  It's not your responsibility to regulate his emotions, and with a borderline it wouldn't have worked anyway.  I understand scared and confused, and it's time for some intense self protection and some time and distance.  My vote is to stop communicating with him entirely and communicate with the police instead, a birthday present to yourself.  Plus, I haven't kept up on your entire story, and do you have supportive people locally?  Please keep us posted Roselee.

If we believe that he actually talked to the police, he basically told the police that he is afraid of you, that you will murder him and cover it up, then turned it around and made a not-so-veiled threat against you. Even if he didn't talk to the police, he still threatened you, and that it was passive wouldn't make me feel better if I were in your situation. The guy is dissociating and has demonstrated delusional behaviors, that he's not quite in touch with reality. From passive to overt threat, that can turn in an instant, with tragic consequences.

Since this is escalating, it would be good to get ahead of it. Can you contact local domestic violence resources in your area? This would be a good first step, and you can do it before you talk to the police. It can be anonymous at first (a phone call to a hotline). It would be good to get a voice of experience to listen and give you another view on this, someone who can guide you on what to do next. A safety plan would also be good.

Safety First (https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety_first.pdf)

Turkish

Roselee, Happy Birthday and none of this is your fault!

You are caught up in the actions of a mentally ill person who is dissociating. You couldn't have predicted this. Forget about who or what you "should" be - this is the time to look after yourself. Your daughter loves you and would want you to protect yourself and to protect you herself too! No one can handle everything on their own - please reach out for help.

Turkish sent you a very good document and gave solid, practical advice. FromHeelToHeal advised you on a great birthday present to yourself.

It's good you told your daughter, your girlfriend, and a co-worker. These are good things. Keep talking.

I wish you a happy and peaceful birthday. (Your pwBPD probably will work against that--they tend to make holidays and birthdays high stakes events, and the stress causes them to react badly all too often.   )

Sharing with people that you can trust what is going on is a critical step for you to heal and recover. One huge part of abusive family patterns is to isolate the person who is being abused from outside influences. Because outsiders look at what he's doing to you and say "What the heck? That's abusive!" when they hear about it. Since you've been subject to it, you've become slowly used to it, and kinda lose sight of it, or perhaps wonder if you did something to deserve it, etc. Having others who can help you keep your perspective really helps!

The key is to make sure you do it with people you can trust--people who will believe you, and people who will be sensible about this, and especially people who will support you in the way you need it.

It sounds like your children are at the threshold of being independent adults. At that age, I'd say that they have a right to know what is going on. They are old enough to know, and not needing to hear an age-appropriate version rather than the full version... .but perhaps not yet old/wise enough to be able to give you much support. That kind of development can come early or late depending on the person and the life path.


He may or may not have actually contacted police, you can't really know unless you hear from them. But either way, this is two important threats he's making, even if they are somewhat veiled.

First, he's threatening to tell the police things which will make them go after you.
Second, he's threatening that he or his son will shoot you if needed.

Those threats are NOT acceptable. If he made them on a voicemail or in a text message, you have a record of them. If he made them in person, especially if he might do something like that again, I'd recommend you get a voice recording app on your phone, or get voice recorders so you have a record of these threats should he actually carry them out. (The legality and admissibility of such recordings vary from state to state, but having them is still a good precaution.)

Turkish recommended you contact a local women's shelter or other local domestic violence resources, and I'm going to second that one. They should be very helpful, and more importantly, they can help you understand options and make contingency plans.

I have to say that all your words and advise has helped me more than you could ever realize!  I really mean that!  I was and still am feeling a little bit very alone in all this. Still for some whacked out way feeling bad and concerned for him... .desperately trying to keep that emotion way out at bay!  But am finding myself more able to talk about it. I am still embarrassed by it, because the people that know me and him would be shocked to know that first I would ever put up with such treatment, and second that he has become this abusive person.  So, thank you for your encouragement and advice!

I didn't hear from him anymore yesterday or last night... .I did have my phone turned off.  But when I turned it back on... .nothing.  Although he did call me at 6:45 am this morning.  I didn't answer and thankfully no voice mail.  I'm praying constantly that this will stay this way for a long while. I do expect him to call me again at some point. I am scared because I don't know what his frame of mind is right now... .calm or delusional, remorseful or vengeful. I do also have a concern, because of the car he has been working on for my girlfriends husband (the same who he left awful messages with)... .they have a concern about their car too at this point, her husband was supposed to go over there this Saturday to give him $$, but she is thinking now that maybe he should hold off a bit. 

I had such anxiety yesterday that I couldn't breath, and felt I was going to throw up... .I left work at lunchtime and went to the Urgent Care, spoke to the doctor and was a complete mess.  He was very understanding, making sure my safety was ok... .wrote me a script for 6 very low dosage (.25)of Zanax, just so I could stop shaking and be able to talk without crying.  I was grateful for that! I cut the tablet into quarters, and that little quarter had made a big difference. Just able to focus better on this whole crazy situation!  Was also very nice that the Dr.'s office called me this morning to see how I was!
Last night my daughters took me out to dinner for my birthday... .love them!... .and I could tell they were skirting the topic and wanting to know, but not wanting to get me upset on my birthday.  So, I opened the topic for them.  They asked questions, I told them some and didn't feel comfortable at this point to go too much into detail about his actual words and full actions.  I did not tell him that he said he called the police, or what he was thinking that because I had a boyfriend who commited suicide, that he thinks he didn't kill himself, I made it look that way.  That would have crushed them at this point hearing that.  One day, I will be able to share it all with them.  I told them he contacted my girlfriends husband.  I am blessed that I have such mature and confident girls, they told me that they would never be able to be the same around him again... .and that I should want to rid myself of this and not just take it because I don't want to be alone.  I explained that it doesn't have to do with the idea of being alone, and that they of all people should know, I am a independent woman who has spent a great deal of my life "on my own". I explained you can be in a so called "relationship", but still be very much on your own. And this has been me.  But, I did tell them, that I am not looking for a reconciliation... .it would just be too impossible to even imagine at this point. And that I am still very confused with my feelings and what has happened.  My older daughter was pressing to know the details of what he said in his voicemails and texts... .I just told her, that I have them saved... .and it's something thats too upsetting right now to talk about.

So right now, I am scared every time my phone makes a noise. I did contact the hotline that was recommended. I will probably be adding extra locks to my doors, just because it may make me feel better.  He called this morning... .hoping that will be it for a while!  Fear of the unknown right now!

Hi Roselee!

Glad to hear from you. I'm happy that you had a nice birthday dinner with your daughters and that you were able to let them in on things a little.

That tension and anxiety is tough and it's good you got yourself some medical attention. It's also good you contacted the hotline. Were they able to offer information and / or further support? I think an extra lock or two is a good idea - as a precaution.

Around Christmas, when I broke up with my BPD, (shortly after the weird talking in voices episode that completely freaked me out), I spent a horrible few days wondering and worrying about him. I shouldn't have, he was fine - or as fine as he can be. We don't know what others are thinking unless they tell us, and even then there is a limit to what we can do for them. In the situation you are now in, you need to keep the focus on yourself - your fears, your anxiety, your safety, your wellness. You deserve that.

Besides your daughters, your friends with the car, your doctor (how much did you tell them?), and your BPD's family - who else have you been able to confide in? You do not need to tell everyone the whole story, but to let different people know that you are ending a high-conflict relationship and have some realistic concerns, and even fears, and that you are taking steps to ensure your safety and well-being is a good and proactive thing.

It will help you to feel less alone, which is very important. It will also provide you with a little more safety.

With regard to the car - let your friends sort that out. They're grown-ups and while you might feel you are in the middle of it - you are not. They know that your BPD is not balanced, at least not at the moment, and beyond saying that you're sorry there's a bit of a mess, you have no responsibility and *no control* anyway!

I would like it very much if you were to spend a little time on the Safety First document that Turkish sent you. If you have some time, why not make a cup of tea and calmly begin to work through it? Maybe you could fill in the section on Building Your Support System (pg5). Just as a way to identify who else can be there for you.

What do you think? Are you in a state of mind to do that? Or how are you spending the day?
  

I rec'd a voice mail from him this afternoon.  Remorseful, apologizing, saying I don't deserve what he did, that he needs help... .etc.  My plan is to NOT respond, and continue to not answer his calls and texts.  As far as the car... .I was going to take the advise and let my girlfriends husband deal with that.  Part of me almost was thinking of texting him to see if he apologized to them as well and that they wanted to stop over to him this weekend to give $$.  But I snapped out of that... .and don't think it's good to get involved.  Am I right with that? 
Also... .should there ever be a time to actually talk to him? Just for a closure type thing?   I'm just not sure at this point.  Last time I spoke with him when he was calm and within hours I was scared for everyone!  I think as painful as that was (only yesterday) I have to keep it in my head as a constant reminder!  Just don't know a timeline here... .non talking to him has made him crazy, and talking to him has done the same.

Have you heard this before? The remorse? And what happened when you heard it before?

You've been accused of crazy things, been threatened, frightened, and barraged with voice and text messages. You do not need to provide an opportunity to start that again.

Chances are he will feel remorse and regret, then anger again that you somehow *made* him do it, then anger at what a bad person you are for not talking to him, then remorse again, then self-pity, then anger ... .and so on.  It does not sound as if he will simply accept that you are done and leave you alone. He may drag this out or escalate again.

In my opinion, you are right not to speak to him and not to text back about the car and stay out of all that.

As for speaking to him about closure - it is too early to think about closure. You might be wondering if you need some kind of formal finish. I think at this point, after the last few days, he should realise it's over. He will figure that out himself. It's not your responsibility.

Closure is for yourself - for each person to do for themselves. In a healthy relationship that happens individually and together. In a relationship with a disordered individual, it is not the same thing. There is time for you think about closure - the time is not now.
 
Roselee, you had to go to see a doctor, who prescribed anti-anxiety medication for you, on your birthday. It is very odd indeed how truly terrible we can feel, and then seem to not remember it so well even a day later. And then we end up in a similar situation again. I know this phenomenon from my own r/s and it scared me very much to realise how bad my memory was for bad things. I couldn't hang on to them enough to get me out. I kept forgetting, and ending up back there either because of my desire to re-experience the good stuff or, later on fear, obligation, or guilt. Check this out on FOO https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.0


You need to take care of yourself, which means being clear in your mind about the relationship being finished. No matter what he does or says next. Give yourself space and time, and quiet and peace.

Vitamin C... .you are soo right about the craziness of the bazaar phenomenon of a memory for bad things.  I did print out your latest post for myself to keep with me... .weird I know.  But that line with you saying, that I went to a Doctor on my birthday who had to prescribed me anti-anxiety meds.  That is a very powerful statement! 

And it probably feels less scary to know his emotional state for the moment, yes?


Yup


Up to you, although I suggest a public place.  Most of us have longed or are longing for closure at the ends of these relationships, since once the wheels come off and trust is broken both ways, open, honest communication is no longer happening, if it ever was.  Which can be more powerful because we get to figure out how to give ourselves closure.

But a face to face conversation is infinitely better than email, text, or even the phone because you get the whole communication, and best to focus on the goal; if the goal is to detach, heal and move on, decide if that "closure" conversation would help that or hurt it.  In my case there was no point, there was zero communication going on, a chasm between us, and trying to climb out of that to fabricate a fantasy middle ground was silliness best left alone.

I'm thinking of the angle that cold NC might result in him escalating his behaviors. As much as you need it, I think engaging in the emotional investment of closure on your side, and any form other than neutral and short (with boundaries) may also escalate his dramatic behavior. What do your professional advocates think about it?

I'm thinking a safe, controlled contact, goodbye. It might not have to be in person even if you have safety precautions (people with you, or watching). Given his threats, I'd defer to the advice you're getting in real life from your advocates, however. We still don't know if the police story is real.

That's a good point that Turkish made, Roselee.

If you feel some kind of clear and formal finish is required, then please do so only after taking advice from your advocates (the hotline?). Lay out the facts of what has been going on, and how it has affected you, and see what advice you are given. Share it with us, if you wish.

* If you meet in person, let it be in a public place, as FHTH suggested. Do not go to his home or have him to yours.
* If at all possible, have at least one person there as a moral support and a witness, and to communicate just with their presence that you are serious and that you are serious because his behaviour has genuinely frightened you and you have had enough of it.

None of this is to be mean and nasty, it is not to frighten either him or you any more - it is to communicate calmly and seriously that things have gone too far. It is, actually, a de-escalation, if you think about it.  

The title of your thread "I'm scared to break up with my boyfriend who I believe has BPD" makes this necessary. There are vague fears that we have (we talked about them earlier in the thread) and then there are the actual ones based on your BPD's actions of the last few days.

Keep yourself safe, psychologically and physically, ok?  Neither of those parts of you need to be hurt anymore. And if you have any doubts about this, just read over all the posts here, from you and the responses to you. Remind yourself, that even if you had imagined the whole thing, it would still be wise to get some distance.

You do not need to agree to anything that does not make you feel safe. Remember also, that we get used to ever more bad behaviour and that begins to seem normal and we both appear to have brains that are better at remembering good things than bad things. :)
In general, that's a great way to be in life, but it can also really work against us at times. This is one of those times.

If you are going to break up with him, are there any logistical steps you need to take? Besides choosing not to be in a relationship with him, that is!

Any form of joint finances, lease, bank accounts, credit cards, phone plans, etc.?

Do you have stuff at his place, or does he have stuff at your place that should be returned or recovered?

Grey Kitty... .we do not share any accounts, or finances of any kind.  There are a few things at my house that he should have back... some clothing. a BBQ, and a wood chipper.  I had thought about either borrowing or renting a pickup and dropping those items off during the day when he will be at work. 

I rec'd a phone call from his sister-in-law last night, apparently all during their vacation this week he had been calling his brother and telling him about the same crazy stuff he had been accusing me of.  Told him that he thought I may be plotting to kill him, dumped all his open bottles of alcohol in his liquor cabinet out thinking that I may have poisoned them.  Told his brother that he contacted the police and his lawyer.  I actually felt relieved that he was saying this same stuff to them as well, so that they were made aware of how unstable he actually is.  They contacted their other brother, who apparently went over there last night to see how he was, and talk to him.

My girlfriend told me last night that he called her husband and apologized, I was glad to hear that, but again, the damage is probably done there. I'm sure they see him in a total different light now.  How could they not?

He called me this morning, and I did not answer, no message.  I'm sure this will not be the last one.  Thinking I can't ignore him forever, and that is how he will see it, and maybe get angry again.  I thought of somehow letting him know that I rec'd his message that he was sorry, and realizing he needs help, and am glad to hear that he is going to do so... .but I am suffering right now as well, and can't really be the ONE to help him.  So nervous as to what to say or not say... .don't want him to perceive it as hope, I don't want to have him lose it again.  But I know, if I don't respond at all, that will make him go into a tailspin as well.  For me it is too soon to meet him in person.  Although, should that ever happen, I like the idea of it being a public place... .not either one of our houses.

Well... .scratch that last post of once again thinking all would be good with a quick conversation.  Maybe since I didn't answer him?  I rec'd a text from him this morning stating that he did actually go to the police and made a report "just in case something were to happen" to him or his son.  He said he gave them all my information, as well as my girlfriends husband, phone numbers and addresses (although not sure if he has their address, so not sure if that part is true or not, but I guess not to hard to find anymore).  Said he told them about all the things I've been saying and acting like I'm concerned for his well being, and that he's really frightened.  And that he wants the car out of there... .and doesn't expect any $$ from it.  Stating the Officer on the case will be getting in touch with Her husband to make arrangements to get the car. 
I guess I need to go to the police now... .just to give them a heads up as well?  I did forward the message to his sister-in-law who has contacted me. 
Sick all over again... .I feel this will never end! 

Good stuff, it's good that other people, family, are aware, and it may be a little stabilizing as well.



You're right, you can't be the one to help, in fact you're the worst choice to help him since at this point in these relationships you are triggering for each other.

It's helpful to focus on the goal.  What do you want?  You want the relationship to be over and you want him out of your life, correct me if I'm wrong, and that would be simple, except for concern over him losing it and harming you physically.  Your physical safety is paramount although it's not complicated to ensure it, once you focus on what you need to do and gather the information and resources.  And then you can make decisions about what to do based on what you want to do, instead of basing them on what kind of reaction he'll have, much better yes?

The chances of getting satisfactory closure at the end of these relationships is slim to none, so closure comes from grieving the loss of the relationship, processing the emotions, learning a bunch about ourselves, detaching emotionally, making peace with it, and moving forward with our lives, light and free.  That will happen, by going through it, the only way out is through.

And I agree, it's too early, things too volatile, to meet him, even publicly, and beyond the desire for closure, is there even a reason to?  Now's the time to put your needs first Roselee, selfishness is your friend, and if you come from a place of what's best for you in all your decisions, you will find your way out.  Take care of you!

Well, my last post isn't entirely applicable now either, but the points are the same: protect yourself and do what's right for you.  There's that local hotline, there's the police, there's friends, keep on rallying the support, he sounds more paranoid than threatening, and cops aren't dumb, they likely saw what was really up with him, if he actually went to the cops, all you got was a text from him, sketchy reliability it seems, but staying the course and acting, not reacting to him, is the right approach.  Take care of you!

How are things going, Roselee?

Well, it has been a long and very sad weekend for me.  I did not hear from him at all this weekend. His sister-in-law had spoken to him on Friday (she is also a nurse so he tends to listen better to her). She told him she wanted to let him know that she had spoken to me, because he asked his brother for her to call me to make sure that I was aware that he had spoken to the police regarding the fear of his safety. And he was saying "ok... .good... .good you told her"   Truly bazaar.

Then on Saturday, she contacted me that they couldn't find him. His vehicle was at his house but he wasn't there. Then they were saying that his son thinks he was sleeping with his gun... .and they couldn't find it now.  I don't know if that is true or not that he would sleep with gun... .he may have said that to his son, but whether he was actually doing so... .who could know.  Anyway... .after a while, they finally locate him. He was at a bar with a friend, (who in my opinion, and his sister-in law's, is the worse friend he could have been with).  They told me that his house, mostly kitchen was a total mess... .with pot, seeds & stems were all over the kitchen counter... .and cans and stuff all over the kitchen.  Also, when they went upstairs, they found on his dresser what looked to be Meth!  How, friggin ironic!  I told her, I knew he had to be doing something for him to be up so many days and nights in a row. I wasn't very surprised, although all during our relationship he never did that... .atleast as far as I knew.
He has a close friend of his that he's known since childhood, and he went over to his house Sat night... .and tried to reason with him. Told him he was a total hypocrite, accusing me of doing it, when there he is doing it now.  I have said again to his sister-in-law how fortunate he is to have so many people around him that are running to see how he is, and trying to talk to him. She said her husband and his other brother were going over on Sunday to take him to lunch.  Haven't heard how they made out with that.
I on the other hand, am going thru a bazaar conglomerate of feelings. Anger, Fear, Sadness,Concern, Loneliness, Depression.  Missing the friend that I used to have, or thought I had... .angry that he would do and say these things to me. Maybe we could have had a great thing... .if only he didn't let his paranoia and anger consume him like this. I think that's why it lasted 5 1/2 years... .I kept thinking it would get better... .he would see what he's doing.  My older daughter had very smart words for me.  When I told her that I'm sad, because this isn't him, this isn't the man I love, I feel it's a disorder.  She looked at me and said "Mom... .then this IS him... .it's part of him, you need to stop making excuses for him"  So smart! And I don't see him making any attempt to get himself better... .only make himself worse.  When I tell my girlfriend that I am concerned for him, she says that that means I must want to get back with him. I know that can't happen, I cannot in any way go through this again!  I have to stop thinking of the good things... .so much has happened since then, and remember the feelings of anguish, fear... .that feeling I would get when he would scream at me, the anxiety I would feel if my girlfriend would invite me to stop by after work, or go with her to take our other friend out to lunch for her birthday, how I really would want to go, but afraid of how to tell him about the invite. I'm working constantly on trying not to grieve, but trying to get to a better ME.  Seems that's a heavy page to turn.

Hi Roselee-

It's good to hear from you.  Sounds like you did have an emotional weekend and he continues with his dysregulation; I'm sorry that's happening.


That's the psychological defense mechanism of projection: he's doing it, he feels it's bad and/or wrong, so accusing you of doing it is a way to offload those feelings onto you so he doesn't have to feel them.  Connection to reality not required.


She is smart, and correct, we can't differentiate someone from their disorder, it is who they are.


That's good.  With time and distance you will develop a more balanced view of him and the relationship, how it was a mix of good and bad, but for now, focusing on all the bad and how it made you feel will give you the motivation and focus to break free.


Grieving is getting to a better YOU.  You don't get over a 5 1/2 year relationship with a borderline, or any relationship for that matter, in a short time, it takes what it takes, and there are stages of grieving that need to be worked through and emotions processed to detach fully, the only way out is through, and your perception of him, the relationship, and most importantly you, will change through the process.  And you will come out the other side stronger, wiser, fully empowered, and ready to create an amazing life, but first things first.

You safety is still paramount, and as mentioned, act don't react, do what you have to do to ensure it, then you can get on with the project of detachment.  It's good that other people are involved and know what's going on with him, and it's good you've talking with local professionals; you're doing it right Roselee, now just a matter of one foot in front of the other, one day at a time.  Take care of you!

Hi Roselee,

I am also glad to hear from you again. Although sorry that you've had such a sad weekend. I'm glad that things are more out in the open now - that more people are involved and know what's going on. I'm relieved that you're not in the same kind of danger at the moment, that I had the feeling you were a few days ago.

I imagine the whole thing feels more real now, although probably also completely surreal - in a different way to before. Don't underestimate the impact something like this can have on you - you've been through a lot the last couple of weeks especially, and you need to keep the focus on you.

I do understand the raging feelings you sound like you're having, it will take a while for that to settle enough for you to begin to get your bearings again. You started here by remembering what a social and interested and easy person you were before and outside of this relationship. Remembering saying you wanted that back?  

I know that after a few weird dramas in my own relationships I literally felt like I'd been beaten up - I mean that I felt so shaken and shaky and confused and somehow not in this world fully. That's stress and the brain trying to process and catch up with events and figure out where to file them and what sense to make of them. I found I had trouble even identifying what I felt a lot of the time, never mind trying to describe or explain it to others.



I agree, very smart.

We make a mistake if we separate an illness (or addiction or habit or propensity) as if people are made up of Lego and we can just remove a block here and there and then have the "real" person.

Did you ever re-pot a plant that had way outgrown the pot it was in? And when you take it out the roots are all tightly bound up and in the shape of the pot with hardly even any soil to separate the mass? Imagine trying to untangle that and take out one thread of root - complete from the plant to the bottom. Im.poss.ible.  

I think people are more like that. Everything is interconnected and the "real" person is very complex system of all the things feeding into each other. You can't just "remove" the BPD  - which is not to say it can't be treated and controlled. It seems that it can. But it's a long road and huge effort and it's better to see reality and say "yes, this is the entire root system on display. If I need to get just one thread out, it's going to take a long time. In the meantime I better be happy with the tangled mass".   If the tangled mass is toxic, it's better to put it outside and not sleep with it next to your bed, no matter how pretty the plant is or how good it smells.  



I think we were talking about how bad our memory can be at hanging on to bad stuff, and how dangerous this can be for us because it does not give the whole picture.  It's hard to hang on to the whole when it's seemingly made up of so many contradictory parts - that's the nature of these relationships - there's just no simple narrative.  Even now, I can't summarize my relationship or my part and my process when I talk about it even with good friends who were there throughout it.  Partly because I didn't tell them everything at the time (who could, when there are so many plot twists all the time) and partly because my own understanding has been really fast and each time I figure something out, I go back and reassess something, so the history changes a little all the time.  

To help you detach, you need to do the thing you're less good at - remembering the fear and anxiety, the lack of ease, the lack of trust, the complications caused by the simplest of things - like meeting a girlfriend. That is what helped me to balance out my wilful fantasy with the reality.


Like   C<||| FHTH said, this takes time. "you're doing it right Roselee, now just a matter of one foot in front of the other, one day at a time". You can't rush this part. You can just work on keeping the conditions right for it, day by day, even hour by hour.  Talking and seeking out support is a big help in this.

WOW... .Really LOVE that analogy of the potted plant!  So perfect!  and the words "The only way out, is through"  Love That!

I did receive an email from him earlier... .very remorseful, acknowledging that he screwed up not only his life but his actions have had major impact on others, family, friends. I knew this stage would come at somepoint, doesn't make it better, but feel better knowing he's not raging still.  He's realizing the bitter sweetness of all the friends and family that have come to his aid and contacted him.  He is fortunate for that. But in his email he did admit that there are still some things that just dont make sense (still in somewhat accusing mode and paranoia).  He knows he needs help and says he is going to see a Doctor.

I responded saying that I was glad for his own peace that he is seeking medical help. And that at this point he needs to focus on getting himself better.  He called me after a while, and I did answer... .looking for my closure with him.  I stated that too much has been said, done, and I now am at a point that I have to focus on me.  He never mentioned at any time us getting back together, and I never led him to believe such.  It was more of a call that I felt he needed to make and I guess I needed to hear, that  he knows he needs help and he really hit bottom.  I told him I am still trying to process this whole thing that has happened.  He still admitted to having a fear that I would kill him.  I tried not to JADE... .and I told him, I wasn't going to defend or explain myself, but just had to put out there that he took a traumatic time in my life and threw it back at me in the worse possible way there ever can be.  That alone was too much for me to process.  A lot of the conversation was him admitting how terrible he acted, and what a disappointment he feels to his family and friends, sons. He cried, he kept saying how sorry he was, and I told him, Im sure you really are sorry... .but I can't be the one to help you with this.  I am trying to heal myself.  I mostly listened and told him good luck with finding the right doctor that will help.
WOW... .as I'm typing this and was just going to say that I'm afraid now that I shouldn't have taken his call, that he may have thought that as an open door for more communication... .he is calling! I'm not going to answer... .I don't want to talk anymore.  Crazy how that turned up twisted feeling can come flooding back in a blink. I won't return his call. (no voicemail... .thank God) I read someone else's posts about them being in a 7 month breakup... .and I thought, wow that would be terrible.  I know I definitely DO NOT want that in any way.
I guess, since there was some kind of communication... .non-fighting kind, he may think that the window has been opened for him.  I don't want to in any way lead him to think that there is a chance.  I was so careful with my words, just telling him, that what I have been through... .I'm still going through, and it will always be there. I purposely didn't want to mislead!  Just wanted to end on a calm note.

Sounds like you handled that well, Roselee.

Let me remind you of something, though, ok? Borne out by my own experience and written about on so many posts here.   Please be careful about thinking that what is closure for you is anything like that to him. While it doesn't sound like actual JADEing to me (but I'm not expert, I never got around to trying this in any targeted way myself - I had to get the hell away), what I am hearing from what you described is that you are asking him to take on board that he has wounded you deeply. In one way that's ok, perfectly true and fair enough.

If you are saying it only for your own benefit and for the benefit of "the truth" - that's cool.  If there is even a tiny bit of you that hopes he'll actually understand, take it to heart, extrapolate wider understanding and empathy for you from it, and actually be able to maintain that awareness - I am doubtful.

The way I figured it out to help me understand it, is to imagine a really upset (and guilty) 4 year old. They know they've done wrong, they feel "bad", they feel sorry that everyone is upset with them, they feel alone and fearful that no one loves them. They've learned from their parents that it's correct to say "sorry" in some situations, and so they do that sometimes. Like being reminded:

Parent to kid: "what do you say?"
Kid to parent or other adult or whoever: "thank you".  

Just that. Actual gratitude or regret, the way full adults experience it is not really part of the schema yet. They're just social graces at this point.

BPDs, especially in panic or dysregulation mode, are far closer to that 3 or 4 year old in terms of their emotional response, than they are to adults. And even if they have a few minutes or hours of actually being able to get outside of their own painful emotions to genuinely care about another, it is too hard to stay there. So they don't.

It is definitely a possibility that the good communication you had today, will be seen as a window. It will be up to you to be clear for yourself what your boundaries are (and why you need them! That's the bit I always found I had to remind myself about). It will be up to you to keep them stable and erected, again and again again, for quite a while.

Remember also that someone with BPD really has trouble with shades of grey in relationships ( "I love you, but I can't be with you because it hurts me" - that is an almost impossibly contradictory statement.  pwBPD might have learned that people say that sort of thing, they might even have used the line themselves - but to appreciate the amount of heartbreak and sadness and wisdom and discipline and choice that might have gone into making the statement is a whole other thing.

You've ended on a calm note. For yourself. That is good. Take comfort and strength from that.
 
You need to be very clear in yourself that you want to hold on to that calm and that you will need your boundaries to maintain that.  

Sounds like a productive day overall. You feel ok?

:)

I re-read that post you sent Vitamin C over and over.  It helped me quite a bit.
He called again last night because he felt the need to let me know how he made out at the foot doctor (an appt made long ago).  We talked again, and again he was very remorseful and disgusted with himself, wishing he could take it all back etc.  Then he said that he thinks he may buy a motorcycle... .the same man that complained about them and the noise and how dangerous they were. I reminded him of that... .and was quite confused with it.
But during the conversation I was trying to understand what happened last week when we were on the phone and having a calm conversation... .and 2 hours later he went off the wall with bazaar accusations. He said that he was high... and it was poison to him and made him nuts. After talking some more, I asked how long ago he and why he bought it (Meth). He was a little sketchy on the time line, but it seemed that it may have been a month ago, and his reason apparently was that if I was using coke... .then who cares. Still having a really hard time trying to understand that one! And my mind keeps replaying all the times he accused me of doing drugs, and accused me of lying... .and here he was doing just that.
He was saying how upset he is about what he did to his family, kids, me, friends. Gave himself a stigma now that he feels won't ever leave. I just told him that I know he will make it right with his family and friends. And when he was talking about the plans he has with buying a motorcycle or getting a hobby... .I stopped myself from giving my usual advise, and told him that I can't hear this right now. I'm very hurt with all this, yes, you are going thru pain, but so am I and it was extended to my kids and friends. He says he is going to see a Doctor. But will he continue the meds? Not sure.  He was saying he misses me and will never get over me, and wishes that everything could go back to how it was in the beginning.

I made the mistake of telling my older daughter about his drug use. And she got very upset, cried, and angry. Saying she never wants to see him again. That she doesn't want to go to school, what if he shows up here at the house. And Mom... .why are you even talking to him?  I felt so low, so awful for her, that I put her through this. I tried to explain that I needed to talk to him so I can know what kind of mindset he is in now. And I also said that in a really twisted way, I almost felt better knowing that it was the drugs that magnified his thoughts... and that he is not like that normally when sober . Granted he is still not rational thinking... .but I'd like to think not to that extent.  However, I did ask when that night that he wouldn't let me leave, if he was doing drugs, he said no.  So I don't know!

So... .this morning he called a couple times... I didn't answer, finally the 3rd time I did, knowing that he wouldn't stop. He started the conversation with: "what, you're not at work?" which I am. then he proceeded to say that I don't need to contact him sister-in-law anymore... he's fine, and that he probably will buy a motorcycle, and get a dog. (I always wanted him to get a dog... .now he is saying its because he needs the company) Then he proceeds to tell me that he wants to see someone else (doesn't sound like he has someone lined up, but who knows), he needs companionship, and doesn't want to be alone. And he does think that I am seeing someone else, and say he thinks he knows who it is,  because he thinks it's "weird" that I haven't really told all my friends about everything.I got upset (crying, again) telling him that I wish I could find the right words, or right way to convince him that there is no one else! I have done this dozens of times!  I told him only 2 of my girlfriends know because that's all I have seen. And I don't announce these things... .I prefer to talk to them on my own.

He wants to meet somewhere in public to have "closure" to talk about the things that he seems to think he needs to hear. I told him that I don't see what that will accomplish at this point. I am not going to sit there and be accused of the same things. If this is what it is for I don't want to go. He assures me that he just needs this because we've been together a long time and he loves me and needs to have this. He offered to have his sister-in-law come. I don't know what to do... .I told him I'd call him back. I don't know if meeting him will make it better and end it or worse. He offered dinner... .I said no... .I just don't think I'd be able to eat anyway.
I have no idea what to do at his point!

Just so strange! He's sending me pictures of motorcycles, and asking me what one?  The man is a stranger... .I never knew this to be an idea before. He says he's thinking of selling his truck and buying a nice older one straight out, and buying a motorcycle. I don't know if this is a manipulation tactic? Because some of my girlfriend's husbands have motorcycles... .seeing what my reaction would be?  Just second guessing everything he says and does, and I don't like this feeling at all.  I wanted to respond that I wish he was using this much research on finding a doctor. But thought best to keep that one to myself!  I'm supposed to call him back at lunch time, and I just don't know what to say at this point. I almost want to meet him, just to get it over with. I know he will accuse me of being with someone else again... .and I have run out of ways to say that's not true. I even reiterated that to him in my email yesterday... .just to have him bring it up again today. But when I say I'm not answering this anymore... .he sees that as I'm lying. 

What do you think about going no contact now? It's pretty clear that what you thought was closure has actually turned into ongoing and open-ended engagement. I would suggest sending him a brief message saying that it's best that you both move on with your separate lives, then cease taking any calls or messages from him.

Well... .I think I may have to get to that point AGAIN.  He is rehashing... .and I don't want to hear it anymore. He even suggested that maybe we can still talk and remain friends.  How the heck is THAT possible? Although, he says he will no longer lash out at my friends husband... .can't be sure of that either.  He keeps asking why he hasn't called him back when he left him a message.  Again... .suspicions!  I guess I have to come right out and say AGAIN, that we spoke... .I can't go this round again, and please don't call me. It's too much. I'm still hurting and very confused!

Hi Roselee,

This will keep happening and going round and round until you stop it. And then you will have to keep stopping it, and more importantly, stopping yourself from being guilted or in any other way being dragged back in.

There is no useful discussion that can take place now. Please read the No Contact document again and think about how stopping contact is helpful to you. Are you helping him by taking his calls or promising to return them? Do you think that a few hours break is enough to get you some distance to think? Is it helping you in any way to remain in contact?  I would respectfully suggest no as the answer to all three questions.

You are still very much enmeshed, it could not be any other way, really, and if you want to get to a more balanced place, you'll need to put yourself first.

What would it mean to genuinely put yourself first in the scenarios you've described over the last day or two? Specifically, how would that look for you? What would you do or not do?

Hi Roselee,

not to pester you, but just to remind you that there's people here who care about you and your story.   Come back and tell us how things are going for you, if you want to.
We're all still here, in internet land, behind the computer screen :)

The past couple days have been a complete roller coaster... .as usual.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong! I've tried not answering any calls or texts.  Then we he begs to just talk, we have an adult conversation and he understands, then the next day he is off again... .same ole rehashing of how I never really loved him anyway, and I probably have someone else.
My girls were leaving this weekend to go back to College, so I took a 1/2 day on Friday for us to go shopping and go out to dinner.  The day prior he was in a very emotional remorseful state, didn't go to work, and claimed that everything I had said I was right, that now he sees the bigger picture and feels awful for all he's done.  Called my girlfriends husband again and they spoke and he apologized and made it all good there. I was explaining to him, that I am at a point that I can't go back, because I am afraid that he will cycle right back again. He kept saying he misses me, loves me, asking if I miss him. I told him, I don't miss this.  I keep telling him that I can't talk about the same stuff anymore... .I'm done.  He was understanding and said he would leave me alone, only to call again the next day, I mentioned that I was taking a 1/2 day & we had a lot to get done & that my daughter needed to renew her passport for school... .then he started asking questions about that... .and although he knew about this a year ago, I re-explained why she was traveling for school, then I heard him change, just like that, asking if I was going too... .and then just going from there. I started to get frustrated, couldn't believe he was going on about this. He says ok fine... .I won't bother you.  Only to start calling my phone every 15 minutes... .over and over and over... .the whole time shopping and when we went to dinner. Leaving the same stupid voicemails that I never cared, and rehashing stuff about that time I went to the Dr with my daughter... .who was really with us?  Crazy crap again.  I finally turned my phone off.  The next morning at 7:00 am... .he starts calling again... .I decide to answer because I don't want to go thru the whole day of his harassing calls.  He's upset, sounded like he had been crying, and is back to remorseful.  I told him that what he did the day before was exactly what the problem is.  I said I had 17 missed calls, and the messages that he did leave made no sense... .and was the same crap that I don't want to hear anymore.  I told him I just want to be left alone.  He understood and said ok.
The next morning, my girls and I are packing their stuff to head to their college, and he leaves a remorseful sounding message saying that we cannot get back together, good luck and have a nice life.  OK... .fine... .I was never asking to get back together!  Then during the day, I rec'd sexual text messages... .wth?  I didn't respond.  Then later saying how much he ate for dinner... .again I didn't respond.  Last night, my phone starts ringing, the usual, over and over and over... .I finally answer to hopefully put a stop to it all. Just to hear the attitude in his voice again. Saying how rude it was that I didn't answer him today.  I explained that I rec'd voice mail saying he understood we were done, then I get weird sexual texts, and what he had for dinner during the day... .how am I supposed to respond to any of that. He got offended that I said they were weird.  Anyway, he started spiraling, and I told him I was turning off my phone for the night, and didn't want to talk to him anymore. He was calling me a player... .how I f'd up his mind. Now I have all my ducks in a row cause I have the house all to myself. same ole stuff.
This morning recycle back to remorseful man. How he loves me... .he will show me. He misses me.
I don't know how else to explain to him that I can't do this anymore.  I've never misled him. Never told him that I love him or miss him since this whole fiasco started.  I want to block him, but I'm afraid of not knowing his state of mind, and then he may just show up at my house. When I don't answer, he then blames me for his wild thoughts... .saying what else should he think, if I'm not answering him... .then I'm busy with someone else.
He is now on meds for anxiety that he's prescribed to take 2x a day.  I'm hoping that they will take effect quickly... .rather than the couple weeks. 
I'm a nervous wreck about this coming holiday weekend.  I know he is going to want to see me, and I don't want to. I have explained that.  I'm afraid that I am going to be spending a weekend of high stress, scared to look at my phone, and worried that it will just be ringing over and over and over, and then he will say he's coming over.  I have read the tactics on what to do... .I guess at this point I have to really hold steady, and regardless of what his messages say... remorseful or not, just not answer or respond... .even if I do get 17+ calls and countless texts. I'm just very alone at this point, and he knows that, and  he sees that as me having time to do whatever I want with whomever.  When he is in a rational cycle, he understands, when he's not, I'm getting blamed for it all, for why he is like the way he is, why he can't work and not make any money. All my doing. Ignoring his calls doesn't seem to work... .although I only ignored the first 18-20 or so, then I would text back telling him to stop and let me be. That would make him subside. I certainly can't keep my phone turned off... .in case my kids need to get in touch with me.  I have tried to be nice & explain, tried no contact. I just don't know the words to get him to understand calmly that I can't see this ever working out... .too much has happened, and I will always be on edge. Although I will miss what we had, once upon a time ago, how he could be very generous, and giving, I won't one bit miss this side of him... .which is the side I am seeing most of the time. I've told him to focus on getting himself better, but I guess he thinks he can't do so without me being there as well. I'm just so drained! Again

Vitamin C... .for the record... .I so appreciate you reaching out to me... .definitely NOT pestering!  I am the one that feels pathetic... .with my same on going saga. I knew this would be difficult... .just never so intensely & emotionally difficult. You all warned me... .but I thought it would get better, and every day it's different. So... .thank you for reading... .I would be a real mess if you guys out in internet land weren't reading and guiding! :)

Hi Roselee,

I'm glad to hear from you again!


To me it seems that what you're doing "wrong" is that you are expecting him to really understand, accept what you say, and for that to last more than a few hours.


This sounds quite typical in a way - he is panicky and flipping from one mode (understanding, mature) to another (needy), to another (angry, accusing) and so on.



It does not seem he is going to be able to respect your boundary: your stated wish to not be called / contacted.


Turning your phone off is one solution, but as you can see, the effect is temporary. And, as you point out, you can't keep your phone turned off because you have other people in your life who may want or need to contact you.


Your wish is simple and justified. You have stated time and again that you need to be left alone. He is not able to maintain himself, to soothe himself, without reaching out to you in constantly changing modes.


And then he became angry and accusing again.


I think we see the pattern :)


Your explanation is fine. That is not the issue.  The issue is his understanding, accepting, and holding to your stated wish to be left alone.


The solution seems to be either to keep your phone turned off, or to block his calls and messages.
 

In what way are you alone? You mean physically because your daughters aren't around? Are there friends who you can spend time with or even go and stay with over the weekend?


No, ignoring them will not work because he knows that eventually you *will* pick up.


Explanations are not working. Brief periods of No Contact are not working.   Your words are not the problem, nor is your calm approach. That would work with someone who has emotional maturity and stability. That is not what a person with BPD has.

You might try the following, and perhaps other members will chime in again with their own experience and tips:

1) tell him one last time that you will not be answering his calls or messages
2) tell him that you will contact him in 10 days (this will give him something to hang on to to encourage him to respect your boundary , and give you much needed peace)  --- I am not sure about this, let's see what others say ?
3) block his number
4) try to not be alone over the weekend - be ready to call for help if he should arrive unannounced at your home - do not allow him entry - do not engage in further discussion

Keep your conversation with him brief and to the point. Tell him "I will now hang up, take care of yourself" and then hang up

Is it possibly useful for you to contact the helpline that you did before and ask them for ideas and how to deal?

You can do this! 

Generally good advice -- I would skip step 2, as dysregulated BPD doesn't really do delayed gratification.

I would add that you should contact your police department to let them know that you have this angry ex/stalker problem. This will put him on their radar, which may be handy if you need to make a 911 call when he makes an unwelcome appearance. The police may also have advice/instructions for you.

Very good advice steps!  I guess I will be at that point to possibly block his number should he continue to contact me. I'm just very nervous of the backlash of that. So nervous that he will contact my friends again.  Although, he promised and swore that he would never do that again... .he already feels like a "freak"... .but on the other hand, I feel that he will think... ."who cares, they already think I'm a freak".  My goal is to stay strong with No Contact! I truly hate that feeling I get in my gut when I see my phone ringing and it's him... .or every time I receive a text, I there's that surge in my gut. That's not a way of life!  That sensitive, and emotional, forgiving part of my brain... .needs to be shut off.  I am in a constant reminder mode to myself of the hurt and anxiety he has caused me... .I keep re-reading his texts & voice mails as a reminder... .from just a couple days ago even... .that still make no sense to me. Even after we had conversation about how he doesn't mean the stuff he says, and he won't do that anymore. Didn't take long for him to cycle from logical to bad.
I am looking to find something to do with myself this weekend.  Take my dog, and go for a ride somewhere.  I have friends around... .but they have husbands and lives... .they don't need my added drama. And frankly, I'm still too embarrassed.  There are only 2 of my girlfriends who know that I have been down this road before... .and the emotional and verbal abuse I have received.  My other friends have seen him as this fun, funny, generous guy.  I don't think I can fully go into the details of how bad it has been. So, I will keep it light with them for now.
I have been through a divorce, a death of a boyfriend... .but this seems so much harder. I guess because I'm older, and I feel that this isn't how my life is supposed to be at this point. One day at a time! It just has to get better!

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