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My BPD expects me to have boundaries. I am an artist and a chef. I have a lot of female colleagues and she claims I sleep with all of them. I am very set on not hiding my emotions and don't have any pretenses. This is very contra her behavior of lies and deceit. I have a very set of rules as a public figure of who I allow into my space where as she always mixes with degenerates which can be damaging to my career. When I tell her they are not welcome I step into a minefield. I am going through her umpteenth break up. I don't even bother to pack up or to stay out of 'her' bedroom after she told me to leave. I just ignore her mood swings. Even my step children are tired of her treatment of me.

Our latest fight was her allowing a gay friend to get into bed with her. When I told her I do not appreciate it I was told I'm unreasonable and jealous.

Well now I'm laying on the couch processing the insults, verbal and physical abuse. She recently took up acting using my agent and got severely angry when she heard I got a big role and she will be background. What makes a f loser like you so special. I will tell the agent what a f up you are and get you kicked from set. She once succeeded in getting me fired from set by interfering I changed agents and had to start at the bottom again but soon my experience showed and I went back to where I was. I told the agent if my BPD badmouths me to fire her. I'm not a big star but get good offers. She then got her friends to spread rumors I challenged them and exposed them in public damaging her standing. She was peed off as they now realize they got played. She had a succesful army and business career but gambled it all away.
Her gambling addiction ptsd and BPd all goes untreated and she is failing I am supportive and pulled some strings to get a new background role. I hope she doesn't screw it up and damage my standing in the entertainment industry

what kinds of rumors, and can you elaborate on what you did as far as challenging them and exposing them, damaging her standing? it seems counterintuitive, but you may be playing directly into the drama and making matters worse for yourself.

That I am a cheater, liar, gold digger, lazy sloth, alcoholic and drug addict. I spoke to the sources face to face.

Hi Adaw


No. I think she expects you to take responsibility for her (disordered) feelings, which is unreasonable.


When her disordered feelings (e.g. fear of abandonment) flare up, she imagines that you must be intending to abandon her.  So she rationalizes these feelings by believing that you will sleep with all of your female colleagues.  This is the source of her jealousy.  


One of the criteria for the diagnosis is "a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation." This sounds like an apt description of what you are going through in your relationship.  You need to decide if the "idealization" part is worth the "devaluation" part.


Consider that she created this situation specifically so she could accuse you of feeling exactly what she feels; and in a way make you the owner of her feelings.

She is the one who is "unreasonable and jealous." But she cannot deal with this aspect of herself.  So she provokes you into acting the part, so that she can accuse you of such. In her mind, someone is disordered, and she prefers to believe that it is you.

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes,

Schwing

Hi adaw,

It is understandable that being in a relationship with a pwBPD is very frustrating. One of the first goals of improving a relationship is to try to stop the conflict, or at least dampen it down. It is hard to work on improving when feeling angry, resentful. Surely being badmouthed to others, and insulted is crazy making. Although you have little control over what your SO says and does, when couples are in the throes of conflict, someone needs to step back at least for a bit.

This explains the idea

https://bpdfamily.com/deciding_guide/01.htm

What are your goals for improving the relationship? I am sure you have several wishes that your SO would do differently but for any changes to happen, we have to start with ourselves. We can't really change another person. It helps to start looking at ourselves, trying to be less triggered.

It can be a relief to vent, but venting doesn't lead to solutions unless we get into the situation with more detail. Please post what your wishes are so that other posters can share what works for them.

Unfortunately reactive badmouthing out of frustration and temporary childish spite is a common BPD trait, fighting it gets you nowhere, often just ups the anti.

If you appear to "defeat" the issue, the issue just transfers and it is like playing whack a mole as you run around trying fix dramas.

Your interaction in these dramas is often the result they want, even more so than winning any particular points. It is the drama process. Processes are ongoing and have no end point.

Better to find a more diplomatic version of 'whatever" and display your own qualities by example. If you are both involved in the dramas it is less obvious who is to blame , and so you both get tarnished as drama queens.

Can you think of a way of making a boundary about this rather than justa a demand/request? What are the consequences other than futile fight about it?

Often these types of behaviors are a way of testing whether you have boundaries or just empty threats.

If she tells you to leave and nothing happens then it teaches her that she can make these sorts of comments with no consequence... It becomes simply an easy shot behavior to release frustration.

I am known for not being PC and diplomatic. This drives my PR up the wall. I say what I feel. Yes I am self righteous but have earned it. As a critic I do not wear gloves and the same rule apply in my personal life. If you attack my character and integrity I do not walk away. I know this is not good traits to have around a BPD, and this might sound unempathetic but it is the BPD's problem not mine. I am in the unfortunate position of being in the public eye and cannot afford to have secrets or blotchy traits in my personal life. It annoys my BPD and she loves the limelight. She will try to steal the show and I have to fix the blunders as my PR said she won't fix my BPD's screw ups as I am her client not my BPD. 

Two incidents happened and I had to step back. Firstly her late husband's brother embezzled his clients out of hundreds of thousands and she asked me to get him out of the country. Obviously I refused. Secondly a homeless guy came begging at my car door. She handed me money to give to him. I did not. 'You will die on the streets of terrible diseases.' She told me. There is several institutes within a four block radius that I support and they take care of the homeless. I worked extensively with homeless people for years and know hand outs don't help them. I won't sacrifice my beliefs to make her happy.

But it has become your problem by association, hence why you are here. This is the Improving board, how do you think you can improve things if you simply continue to directly combat and challenge everything the way you are?

Often a pwBPDs aggressive defensiveness is fueled by the knowledge, or expectation, that your reactions are likely to be equally aggressive. As stated previously, it is the drama process. Without reaction there is no process and it becomes wasted energy. Everybody eventually gives up wasting energy for no reward.

For things to change, we have to change, as that is all we can control, otherwise things stay the same.

Being a critic you do it for a reason, to provide unbiased educated informed reviews, not out of self importance and ego protection. That is the difference between a good critic and a bad one. Bottom line does a particular criticism benefit anyone, does it have a purpose. If it degrades your own environment it is not even benefiting yourself

So, I'm guessing at the post title that she called you heartless.
If it helps, I adopted the attitude that I am talking with a toddler when I listen to my wife.  Sometimes the anger explodes, she says things she doesn't even understand, and then it's over. 
It's like water off a ducks back at this point and gets nothing from me.  And maybe that's why she doesn't explode much anymore, I just don't react or engage.

Put another way: don't wrestle with the pigs. They like it, and you're going to get muddy.

Ok, how did you "step back" exactly, adaw? What did you say or how did you react? And what was the outcome? Have you read the lessons available here in the 'Tools' section?

How can members help you with the situation you described? What is your question?


I don't believe anyone should sacrifice their beliefs to make another person happy. I don't think anyone on this site counsels such a thing.   How we express or articulate or live those beliefs and where we see them being challenged is an interesting thing to look at, however. 

Not sure how you set up one of those "poles" or voting things... .  but if we put this to a vote... .how many of the long timers here would say that this sounds like a young FF.  (young in the sense of not being on the boards very long... .being new to learning about pwBPD)    :) :)

Adaw,

A lot of what I'm going to say... .can be seen as what I would have said to myself if I could go back in time.  Since I can't go back in time... .I'll have to use my magic time travelling arrow to send myself a message.

https://youtu.be/hpm6UWyU5IM


in order of importance

1.  Gain understanding of healthy boundaries and boundary enforcement as fast as you can.  Focus on holding the boundary and not "pushing back".  There is no "punishment" involved in a boundary incursion.  The visual here is that they "bounce off" the boundary and it's over.  It's up to them to figure out how many times they want to smash their head into the boundary.  While it is satisfying (and unhealthy) to taunt them a first... .second and third time about their actions... .don't.

https://youtu.be/wSGkBWYDmrM

In BPD land... .it's better for you to not be on top of the boundary, you don't care if they are 1 inch or 1 mile from the boundary.

2.  Respond... .don't react.  A response takes time and wisdom to formulate.  If you lack either of these two elements... .keeping mouth shut is a winning strategy.

3.  Keep reading the article about drama triangle.  Be deliberate in your "response" (see above) to get off the triangle.  This is your decision.  Other people can hop on and off all they want.  Ignore this.  You will claim that you aren't "into" drama.  You are... .you just don't understand the power of the dark side yet... .drama is not good.  Understand it and run the other way. 


4.  This is going to be like learning a foreign language and the language is spoken by people with a totally different culture.  Everything will be backwards... .this is ok.  Learning the language and culture will help you communicate with them. (pwBPD)

5.  Be selfish and focus on self care.  (I was raised to think of others first)

FF

Yes, FF, you've come a long way!  |iiii And I see great positive changes since you've been working with your psychologist!

Adaw,
I'm a lot like you too. No nonsense. But here's the deal: you're in a relationship with a person where honesty, straightforwardness, directness doesn't work. In fact, it's counterproductive.

What does work is not catering to them, not walking on eggshells, but being strategic. And to be strategic, you have to learn their language, which is really different than the language those of us without personality disorders use. It's much like someone going to a foreign country and trying to communicate with a native speaker by speaking English, just louder! They're not going to get it and they'll think you're rude.

Start by reading the lessons and practicing. It takes a while to acquire the skills. If you don't do it and continue on your current path, you'll just have more of the same. She's not going to change her ways and if you want to continue the relationship, it's up to you. It's not fair, it's a total pain in the ass, it's a lot to learn, but it works.

I finally cracked tonight after she kept on hammering on a very sensitive topic and kept on doing it until I lost the whole plot of not jading it worsened the whole scenario to the extend that it almost got physical.

Hi Adaw,

In my experience, sometime people with BPD (pwBPD) try to provoke us to exhibit the very same emotions they are trying to project upon us.  For example, if they are angry and cannot accept that they are angry for no good reason, they might try to provoke anger in us. Now suddenly in their mind, it is not they who have an anger issue, but us.

This is a way for them to past responsibility of their own feeling onto other people.

One way of dealing with this, is the minute you realize you are being provoked, just walk away.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

PwBPD have core shame and hate for themselves, they will pick up on and remember what is sensitive and hurtful for their partners (attachments) so they can take the opportunity to feel better about themselves at times. Remember that they make up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment; sometimes it makes no sense in reality, and this is a big reason why it is so painful.

Remember who you were, and know that is who you are; we can all get better if we learn from our experiences. |iiii

I walked away but cannot leave the house because she has violent and destructive tendencies. Even her daughter who is uBPD, said she wants her mother out of her life.

Hello adaw,

What is it about her violent and destructive tendencies that prevents you from leaving the house?

"Switch lenses"... .this is how she controls keeping you there.  Once the realizes that her "violent and destructive tendencies" don't control you, perhaps they will get better over time.

pwBPD rarely put energy and time into things that "dont' work for them".  They are getting some sort of dysfunctional result from the things that they are doing.

Our hope and goal is to "reward" their "healthy" or "functional" behavior and not reward behavior that is dysfunctional.

Bottom line:  Boundaries can help this situation.   She gets to decided what comes out of her mouth.   You get to decide what goes in your ears.

If you don't like what is going in your ears... .it is up to YOU to fix that... .NOT the person that is saying those things.

 

Hang in there!
FF

We are both art and antique collectors. We live in a house with museum status. She previously destroyed valuables and poured flammable liquids over herself and the furniture. I do love her and is very concerned for her own safety. She has reckless and dangerous behavior traits and I know sometimes she just acts to see if I will come to her rescue 

Its hard but I suggest you refrain from engaging.  Leave the room, leave the house.  Insure the valuables.  My Ex would goad and bully me until she got a reaction, then she could point the finger at me, exactly as Schwing notes.  Not a fight you are going to win so don't play the game.

LJ

PS Don't beat yourself up -- it's normal to "crack" or react the way you did.  LJ

I'm not sure if I am posting this in the right place.
I have a friend who is a manual laborer and he makes a living out of dumpster diving, recycling and salvaging. He helped her to remove building rubble and to take some furniture to her daughter, who also suffers from BPD. The friend called her sexy and played with her hair and stroked her back in front of the young lady. She was so upset by this that she told her husband that she wants her mother out of her life. He phoned me and ask if I were aware about this behavior. I lost it and asked them both separately what happened. She went into attack mode and he just ignored me. I know this can be an attempt to ruin a 20 year old friendship. She didn't consider her children and start rumors in the neighborhood that I'm verbally physically and mentally abusive (yes I know she is gas lighting. So today I went NC as far as possible but still cleaned the house while being bombarded with threats and insults. I could not even share that I had a major breakthrough iin my career. She bragged that she got a job through my agent for the weekend. I calmly replied so did I. But I dare not mention that about the new opportunity that I got offered. I am at wits end.

Yes... .and the answer is... .don't rescue her.  This kind of behavior is best left to professionals. 

Call 911.

Make sure your insurance policies are up to date.

Do NOT insulate her from her choices.  If insurance or police determine that she is liable... .that is her issue... .not yours.


FF

I just told her son in law that I am going to ride this wave they asked me to move in with them because they are tired of seeing me being abused by their mother. I said I will not play her game and abandon her

Let me echo FF here. I spent a lot of time and effort defending mine successfully from her own Fraudulent activities. I and my lawyers successfully defended her on a technicality.

It was very poor judgement on my part. Because she got worse!

Hang in there Adaw. It's tough

What are your thoughts about changing the relationships current stuck dynamic and trying a different approach to your wife's dysregulated behaviour?

Can your rephrase this?  Make it about you... .no her.


FF

Boundaries are in order!

Awareness of drama triangles is also in order.

There is no need to "investigate" your partners behavior. 

If someone calls you to tattle... ."Oh my... .that seems like something you should talk to (the person they are tattling on) about."   then change subject.

If your partner comes and starts demanding to know details of a phone call or asks if they called... .(yep... .you guessed it)... .refer them back to the caller.

Basically... .you stay out of it.  Stay off the drama triangle.


FF

 

Formflier thank you I only now realize that by playing her game unwittingly I have given her control 

Adaw,

I suppose I'm known for my saying "good, better, best" as a way of evaluating and improving on responses to the things that pwBPD do... .and life in general.

It seems your care deeply about your partner and that there are a lot of common interests between you.

Also undeniable that there are issues in the r/s that center around "BPDish" behaviors and responses to those behaviors.  

I'm here to give you hope... .and ask questions.

1.  YOU can change the relationship dynamic all by yourself.  You don't need to tell your partner about it (in fact... probably best not to).  A "truth" about pwBPD is that many times they "listen" to actions much more than they "listen" to words.  Taking charge of your role in the relationship is a big undertaking, but it is one that bpdfamily can help out with.  

Do you want to take charge of your role in your relationship?


2.  If I am in error about the importance of this relationship to you.  Please clarify.  We also know that in life we can't give "our best" to everything.  There is only so much time and energy to go around.

Is this relationship worth giving your best to?


Note:  No judgment from me or others on your answers to these questions.  What is critical is that you are clear on your answers and that you have thought them through.

Set priorities
Make plans
Start doing those plans
Evaluate how those plans are going
Complete the circle and go back to start of set priorities.

I'm going to end with a bit of a different thought.  Just so you know... .I'm a language "words" guy.  Communications major in college.  Many times the words we use reflect our attitudes, changing words is a big part of changing attitudes.  pwBPD are very... .very sensitive to attitudes, tone, body language.  You will not be able to fake it.

Think about a guy that has decided to "not play the game" that his partner is playing.  "Game" is the word that I want you to focus on.

Think about a guy that has decided to listen to, understand and support his partners "feelings and emotions".

If you were an emotional person, which of those guys would you rather express yourself to?

There is a lot to think about here.  Looking forward to your responses.

FF

Do you want to take charge of your role in your relationship?

Yes I do want and need to.
2.  If I am in error about the importance of this relationship to you.  Please clarify.  We also know that in life we can't give "our best" to everything.  There is only so much time and energy to go around.

Is this ...
My best and more

I was busy fetching tools when she decided to move a heavy block of wood and it slipped slamming her hand against the wall.My hand is broken! I tried to strap the hand in. She did it herself and carried on working. No black and blue and no swelling. I had first aid training. How can they live with all the drama

She realized her broken hand drama didn't upset me. Out came her next trick vomiting this didn't gross me out. Third trick blood pressure after 6 attempts the tester gave a normal reading. Can't you see it is broken we have to get a new one. Then she started to hyperventilate and thought I didn't notice and got a desired reading. I'm about to have a heart attack call an ambulance. I 'called' the ambulance (not really, I went outside for a cuppa and a smoke). I did run her a bath to calm her down. I know me not falling for her non oscar acting will anger her. And I will treat her with the same level of calmness as suggested. I realized I'm dealing with a child.

 
If it is her hand that is hurt.

Let her sort out fixing it.

You can offer your services... ."would you like me to drive you to the... .ER... .whatever?"  Other than that... .stay out of it.


I'll ask another question.

Are you ready to let her be in charge of her role in the relationship?

FF

You are focusing on not reacting rather than wondering why she is acting this way.

pwBPD cry wolf, when people stop believing there is a wolf, they then cry pack of wolves. The response is simply to up the anti. They struggle to accept the concept that people link events and use that to assess likelihood. This takes continuity of thought. pwBPD do not seem to do this so each "cry wolf" is a stand alone event and hence the compounding effect of skepticism passes them by.

It is better to have minimal reaction which more address the real issue, rather than total blanking which is invalidating. eg when she hurts her hand a simple "I bet that hurt" and leave it at that, it addresses the issue that she wanted you to notice without feeding it or challenging it.

After a set back in my health I recovered and went back to work. My pwBPD joined the agency. Then she started pointing out mistake I am making: 1. I tell influential people I don't have years of experience and I'm not faking to be better than I am.
2. I am not making friends with co-workers.
3. I should stop hunting the next step on the ladder and look for elevator.
4. I have no skill and talent.
So I kept quiet and ddecided to go nc.
Part of my work is to watch movies and I only have late at night or early mornings to do this. She said I'm a lazy sod and to get a real job. I think she is doing this to de motivate me because I am in demand and she is in the background

Why listen to this in the first place?

Do you have a decision in her joining the agency in the first place?  I'm not that clear in how this is set up.

I am clear that if someone wants to criticize... .that is their choice.  We can't stop them.  What we can do... .is to take our ears somewhere else.

No need to go NC.  Still have pleasant interactions with her about other topics that are not bothersome.    In fact, I would encourage that. 

No need to justify not listening.  "I'm not able to listen to criticism at the moment... "  end it by walking away.  Don't raise your voice... .just be matter of fact.

If you can see it coming... .offer a clear choice.  "I am so impressed by your insights on (such and such piece of art) I would love to stay and have a conversation about (name the piece)."  This should be very inviting, interested and engaging.  If she persists with criticism switch to matter of fact... ."I can stay and talk about art but I will not discuss criticism"  (don't say "while you are criticizing me"... .that is a accusation)

If she persists... .walk away.

If she switches to art... .stay and talk, no need to bring up criticism again.

FF

She dragged two friends in to back her up. Both were in jail for defrauding people, both are heavily depressed and easily manipulated I have my back against the wall

And this matters how?  Not being funny here... . 

Let her bring in 10 friends... .  You live in your world... .let her live in hers.

If you want to put your back against the wall... .do so... .if not... .walk away.

Keep control of your life... let her control her life.

Can you give me more details on "back against the wall"?

FF

Last night she took me on in front of two witnesses with the usual arsenal of BPD weapons deception, half truths, blatant lies, twisted realities, manipulations and gas lightning. For hours I sat and listened to all their attacks. In the end the start hearing her conflicting her accusations. My counselor said I need to get her admitted she is a physical threat to me, herself and others. 

Why listen?

Talk to me more about this counselor.  How long have you been seeing the counselor? 

I'm not saying the advice is wrong, it would be nice to have a partner that is self aware and honest with others about "their stuff", but in high conflict relationships... .that is unlikely.

But seriously... .why listen?  That is a very negative type of relationship.  You get to choose what type of relationship you will be part of... .and what type you will walk away from.

I hope you will be wise in your choices.

FF

Me the counselor go back to before after I had panic attacks and then I met my BPD so she knows

 
OK... .

So (please correct if I am wrong), the reason you stayed and listened was to try to get her to admit certain things (such as her being a danger)

Am I on the right track here?

FF

This is abuse
Boundaries are used to seperate us from abuse, doesn't matter isf she starts to contradict herself, who is that proving anything to? You know your truth, there is no one else present who needs convincing. Its not a court of law, there is no declared 'winner". Much of what an agitated pwBPD is nonsense whether they contradict themselves or not.
Remove yourself from threat. If she is a threat to others then that is reportable and is a job for the appropriate authorities.

You can't make her do anything, you are not in control of her. Attempting to do so keeps you engaged, which directly fuels it

I tried to step away but where I went they followed. I stayed put so they can finnish their assault and when they were done I withdrew without defending myself. I am working two 18 hours in a row so I moved out of the house and went nc

Adaw,

The story is a bit hard to follow.  But... .if you are trying to disengage (walk away) and they keep after you.  Keep going. 

You have the right to not be abused... .if that takes NC... .so be it.

   

FF

It was getting late and I had to get up early was trying to get to bed so I can bbe in time and well rested for work I couldn't lock a door because she created a scene previously phoning the cops saying I locked myself in and took an overdose of painpills.

Did you take painpills? 

I would interpret this as you "saving" her from making another false report?  Eventually... .she will get arrested for this activity.

I would get a recording application for your phone. 

Be clear and firm in your voice when you say "I need to get sleep now.  I'm going to lock the door so I can get rest.  Please leave me alone so I can sleep" 

Go in room and lock the door.

Or... .have a bag ready.  Go to a hotel.  (I've done the hotel thing many times).  Once my wife realized "it" wasn't working for her anymore... .she quit.  I haven't been to the hotel in 9 months or so.

FF