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I am in misery and this time I know I am to blame. I think I am sabotaging my marriage on purpose. Been married 15 years this December. Had initial problem looking at porn. Devastated her and her ideal image of me at the time. I repented and went on the straight and narrow for a time. Then fell off the wagon. Then back on then off... .and so on. Last night back off and was caught. But caught before I was able to even look. That's no excuse just stating what happened. Obviously she is ticked. I am to. But I want to know why I do this to her? She wants to know also. I can't give her an answer because I don't understand it.  Am I sabotaging the marriage on purpose? I know that our relationship prior to marrying was rocky. She may have broken up with me 12 or more times in the 8 months we dated. That's were I now know I witnessed some of the BPD traits I have read extensively about but at the time had no clue.

I joined the Army at the time we were just about to get married. Well I enlisted but didn't actually go until we married. I think if I remember right I did that not to just serve my country but to get out of the relationship but it then turned into a marriage because after I signed up we expedited the wedding to be before I went to boot camp. I left the army in the middle of boot camp with wife's help. actually she got me out almost on her own. A couple months after I was out was internet incident number 1. I think all other incidents may have come around other times of addes stress and turmoil. Like prior to or after a move. (We moved more than 12 times in 15 years.) So maybe I am ding this on purpose. I certainly don't like doing this nor treating her in this manner. I am ashamed. 

there is something called 'porn addiction'. you may want to google on that. i hope it is just a bad habit and im wrong but it sounds like a problem... .

Hi, why are you shaming yourself for looking at porn? Do you have theistic/ethical concerns?

Porn may be a problem if it impacts the quality/quantity or obstructs sexual communion between the couple--otherwise there's a whole pallet of different strokes for different folks  :).

Whether the majority of porn is inherently misogynist or objectionable can be debated round and round, yet is that the issue here?  Though it seems that abstaining from all porn has become an important relational benchmark for you.

Generally, when I'm sexually satisfied in a relationship--I find that self-stimulation and porn aren't high on my agenda. Though every so often we'll watch it, have a laugh, and fool around.

Repetitive porn use while in a relationship may be indicia that one of the parties (or both) have unresolved sexual fantasies/likes that they are unable to enact with their partner. When those desires can satisfactorily be shared it opens up doors to further fulfillment in the relationship. Otherwise, a tendency to repress will set in and isolate the dissatisfied partner from their mate--and when that happens it leads to all sorts of wonky behavior.

Is there a reason that you're being so hard on yourself for looking at porn?  I apologize for not knowing your background story on this issue.         

I'm so hard on myself because I have lied to her and saying I would stop. However when things have gotten extremely stressful I can cope and deal with it for a while but I don't handle it well. I don't open up or express my feelings about the stress and I think that is my avenue of dealing. Or am I scapegoating and I am just a sick perv. Sorry I really am being hard on myself. I just never wanted this to be what identifies me or ends the relationship. Just feels like I am failing.

Hi, have you considered that it's perfectly ok, and relatively normal to blow off stress by occasionally viewing porn. That doesn't make you a "sick perv."  Maybe just something to work on a little bit if it inhibits having fun with your spouse.

There's a demarcation line between intermittently getting some jollies from nekkid images vs. a systemic all encompassing addiction to porn.

I believe that many would posit that finding a normative balance and having a rational perspective (even if that includes some porn use) doesn't rise to the level of some form of degeneracy.

Perhaps, making unrealistic promises solely to placate the insecurities of another is the over-arching issue? Sometimes, we become so beaten down by the intricacies involved in trying to manage another's disorder--that almost anything which smacks of self-pleasure--appears selfish, elicits feelings of guilt, and is considered forbidden. This denial of gratification more than likely is the product of a long standing dynamic in which inhibiting your own bliss has become the default climate. We all know that making a go of it with a pwBPD is challenging beyond what many of us ever relationally conceived--yet none of us were placed on this earth to wear a crown of thorns on behalf of the insecurities of another.

Once again, I'm sorry for not knowing the full extent of your story--but I'd venture that this issue neither defines you, nor is the actual catalyst that imperils your relationship. Please go easy on yourself. We all have a great deal of value and worth beyond the four corners of what we post here.                           

Cipher, I would suggest that this is less about your occasionally viewing porn (frankly, no big deal IMHO) so much as it is a passive-aggressive approach to ending your marriage.  So you can call it sabotaging, or you can call it passive-aggressive... .in the end, it sounds like a way for you to escape your miserable marital situation by making your wife end the marriage, rather than your ending it.

Harsh?  How true?

Cipher,

How do you get caught?  Give details please... .

Couple things.

1.  Your wife should be your outlet and focus for your sexuality (yes I am conservative Baptist guy... .)... .so if you aren't very religious, I would say that the other posters comment about a fulfilling sexual relationship "knocking down" the desire for porn is very true.

2.  Ok... .let's be honest here.  Is it that hard to take a peek and not get caught?  Incognito mode in chrome... .   I'm sure there other other ways to cover tracks.

Do you understand passive aggressive?

Last:  Stop telling her you will stop.  Figure this out on your own... .then let's talk about what to tell her.

FF

Looking at porn is normal. She must have BPD if you are on the forums?

It can be tricky in relationship but it comes down to communication.

In a BPD relationship looking at self sabotage, no. You haven't.

The thing sabotaging your marriage is an illness - BPD. Which needs specialist therapy - DBT to help. Doing what your doing is not the root of your problems and if it was it would be an easy fix, BPD doesn't have any easy fixes.

Please be less harsh on yourself.

One thing that stood out to me in your post was that you stated you joined the arm forces to get out of your relationship, but married anyway.

Although the relationship with your wife is a focus, what is the relationship with yourself? Are you being true to yourself? Do you want to be in this relationship or not?

Another question is your relationship with porn. One definition of an addiction is that the user does it to escape their own painful feelings. The object of addiction can vary- drugs, alcohol, shopping, porn. You have the answer to this too.

Not being true or honest with ourselves can result in painful feelings. It can be a challenge. The alcoholic can believe, or try to believe, that he is in control of the drinking, but he is not. If this desire to look at porn seems to take over you ,and you can't control it, then this is something to consider. If so, then getting help for this can help you get in touch with the feelings that drive it.

What was the basis to leave basic?  I am retired military.  My guess is your wife claimed hardship of some sort.

Critical that you read and think deeply on Notwendy's questions. 

FF

This is noteworthy.  Do you think you were trying to escape the "added stress & turmoil"?

Typically if a marriage fails, it's a combination of issues.  She evidently has BPD perceptions and behaviors, probably with cycling demands, criticisms, pressures and misbehaviors.  You have an occasional issue, possibly a response to the stresses in the relationship.  So while you may feel 99% responsible for the current state of your relationship, how would a neutral outside observer see it?  99%?  50%?  25%?  Less?

Frankly, no one is perfect.  That's not to give you an excuse to grant yourself a pass but rather a partial explanation of relapses so you can get up and get back on a path forward.

And from a boundaries point of view... .this clarifies what is in your control to change. 

You control how and when you ask (communicate) your sexual desires to your wife.  She controls how she responds.

If there is something that you are wanting and you are not communicating that clearly... .that is 100% on you.

If you are communicating it clearly and she is belittling you for it... .that is on her.

Even if she says no... .hopefully you guys can get to the point where

you:  "I want you to do x for me... ."

her:  ":)oing x makes me uncomfortable... .(perhaps she gives reasons... perhaps not)"

her:  "hey... .y is kinda like x... .can I do that for you?"

you:  with big grin on your face... ."Yes... ."

Let me drift off into a FF story... from last night.  With 8 kids things can be chaotic.  Clear communication is key.

I had to run a couple kids to library and then hurried back home to finish making dinner since my wife and I had made plans to cook burgers and use up the rest of the buns we had before they went bad (make every grocery penny count! )

I get home and she is not here... .couple kids are not here.  I text and go about my business.  No response.  I call... no response.

Finally as dinner is about 15 minutes from being done I get in touch with one of the kids that is with her.  "Since I wasn't home... .they assumed they should go to her parents"  (BPDish way of communicating)

"Would you mind if we just stayed here and ate... .that will give you quality time with the kids you have... ."

Her parents are a 5 minute drive (perhaps less).

I didn't get drawn into debate.

"Yes I mind.  I mind very much.  We made plans for family dinner and that is important to me"

She tried to introduce rabbit trails and I didn't bite.  I said I need to go finish dinner to be ready for our planned dinner and got off the phone.

She and other kids eventually showed up and ate with us.

Some of this is BPDish stuff, some is Passive Aggressive and some is just craziness of life.  But, when asked a direct question... .I gave a direct answer about my needs and desires.

I didn't use to be that way.

I figured I needed to "keep her happy".

FF

Very often, porn use is not about sexual desires; it's about something else, something more emotional. It's just an easy fix to help a person feel better.

With my husband, the trigger is loneliness or boredom. Sometimes anger and powerlessness get in there too.

So, the question to ask is: what was I feeling that I used porn to medicate? Then the follow up is to figure out healthier ways to address the feelings.

For Cipher, I don't think the porn issue is about communicating his sexual desires to his wife clearly.  If I recall, she frequently uses emotional abuse to compel Cipher to have sex with her when he really does not want to, so if anything, he is looking for less sex.  Not sure how the porn ties into that issue. 

It sounds to me like a separate issue where he is self-medicating with porn just like a compulsive drinker would do with alcohol.  Note that I'm making a distinction between someone who is a compulsive substance user vs. an addict.  The addict craves the substance when he's not using it and feels happy when he gets to see it; the compulsive user feels a compulsion to use the substance to reduce the amount of pain he is feeling.  I'm not an addiction specialist - this is just an explanation I heard on the radio once that really made sense to me in the context of my uBPDw's drinking habit.

Do you think you were granted a discharge due to your wife's mental health issues? I can see how this history might make you feel quite powerless in the present.

I don't know if it makes a difference to distinguish between compulsion or addiction if the underlying cause is to escape bad feelings. The key to both would be to examine those feelings and the ways the person deals with them.

Also to decide how much the activity is interfering with the person's life/relationships. Surely there is a difference between the occasional drinker and the person who has lost control over drinking. Likewise there probably is with porn as well.

Opinions differ on this and there are religions that state that any porn is wrong, and also the same for alcohol. I think people have to be true to their own values with this one.

Yet there can be harmful effects of porn on a relationship- depending on the viewer. One that concerns me is that porn is intensely stimulating. always available,  and the situations are not real. A relationship with a real human isn't the same, and can seem disappointing in comparison if someone prefers the intensity/fantasy aspect of porn. I think it could feel like cheating to the spouse to think their spouse is turned on by pictures of someone else. If that spouse has BPD and a poor sense of self, it could possibly feel devastating.

I would hope that you could focus on this to gain empathy for what your wife is expressing and experiencing with regards to your porn usage.  Especially tied to communications to her that you will stop while she continues to "catch" you.

Perhaps best to break this into short and long term.

In the short term I would hope you could stop communicating about it and make sure she doesn't "catch" you doing this anymore.  The reason I would like you to stop communicating is that I can see how she feels  she is getting mixed messages.  I hope you can stop sending mixed messages while you sort our YOUR values surrounding this.

Long term plan:  Sort out your values surrounding porn.  Perhaps put another way, sort our your relationship with porn.  What place does it have in your life?

Another poster, Babyducks, has a great example of how to solve problems by separating them and putting them each in their own bucket.  Only deal with one bucket at a time, in order to keep problems "smaller" and more "manageable".

Sure, your wife "should be" better with communication surrounding sex, but that "should be" in a separate bucket from porn.

Trying to link those and solved those at same time is likely disastrous and "too big" of an issue for a pwBPD to solve.

FF

Cipher - I think you are overthinking this.  You are allowing your wife to define YOU.  Not just with having a look at porn, which sounds occasional and not interferring with your relationship, but also in other areas of life.  She is trying to dictate to you the type of person you should be.  You aren't living authentically and true to yourself and your own valves.  You're partially fighting then giving in to her control.  So you feel you want to break free, try, she rages and regains control, and then you feel awful on two fronts after:

-Feeling weak and inadequate because you failed to break free from her control, you failed to hold boundaries, etc.

-Longing to be your own man, and hating yourself because right now, you're not living YOUR life.  Instead you're living HER life.

The self-questioning about are you unconsciously sabotaging things - the core of that question is "what's wrong with me?"  Here's the key to dealing with it - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG YOU, not the deep down, authentic, genuine Cipher.  The issue is she has convinced you that there is something wrong, though.

Honestly, I think all of us dealing with pwPD's experience unhealthy enmeshment to one degree or another.  For me, the key to fixing that was to let go of outcome.  I had to realize there was nothing wrong with me.  She had issues with the genuine me.  Fine - THOSE WERE HER ISSUES.  I didn't need to fix them for her.  That wasn't my responsibility.  I was responsible to myself to live my life true to myself.  I was responsible to hold my boundaries and protect myself.  She was responsible for dealing with her own issues, not me.  She could twist it into being hurt or whatever in a gazillion ways, all of that was simply her attempting to avoid responsibility for herself.

When I let go of outcome, and when I stopped worrying about what she would do, how she would react, and stopped trying to "fix it" for her by changing me, that's when the true colors really came out.  I won't say it wasn't hard, but it was necessary and I'm much much better off now because of it.

Oh - I also had to stop worrying about her so much and start worrying about me, was I being true to me.  It felt like being an incredible a$$h*le at first, but reality is it wasn't, it was just being different.

In the end, obviously, the relationship ended.  The breakup was hard, involved a lot of life change, but the dust settled and gave me the chance to move forward to something better.

I'm not saying end it.  I'm not saying dump her now, that's a choice only you can make (although from your history, you've plenty of justification to end things).  I think one the biggest leaps you can make right now is to decide you won't let her define YOU.  Just don't.  That's not hurting her, even she acts hurt and angry.  It's just healthy boundaries.

I most emphatically agree with Waddams, sorry for trimming his post.  He's been through the test of fire and come out the wiser.  Fortunately, he's around to pass on the wisdoms he's learned, paying it forward.

I would add that it is normal to work WITH your spouse on addressing issues.  However, if you don't agree with your spouse (on major issues of course) then it is good to take a step back and look at the entire picture.  Step outside the box and ponder everything for different perspectives.

That's part of what peer support is, sharing our dilemmas and listening to others who aren't so emotionally vested in our problems.  Another way to describe it is to imagine we have a neighbor who is facing the same trials as you.  You know the person but aren't emotionally entangled in his problems.  What advice would you give him?  You can be empathetic and understanding but crucially you're not so emotionally vested to you can't see all your options, alternatives or practical solutions.

I only glanced at your past posts it is clear she is a controller with demands and terms.  Perhaps even overly critical, bringing up past faults repeatedly as though your apologies aren't enough or shouldn't end?  That is not healthy in a close relationship.  Another word is dysfunctional.  If you haven't been able to make it healthy and functional after 15 years, and 3 years here with all the tools we have, why would you think the future will be any different if left up to her?

From your first post:  "The selfish person in me wants to change her. The other person in me wants to just leave but never will unless she does first."

Just so you know, I'm a firm believer in marriage.  At the time we separated, I did not want to divorce but I was forced to, she was trying to edge me out of parenting our then preschooler and though we had been married for 15 years I saw her looking at me sideways and building herself up to allegations I was a child abuser, neglecter or endangerer.  I had to leave for my own protection and to preserve my parenting.  It worked out also that I stopped beating my head against the wall trying to be weary Sisyphus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus), her fixer and her Whipping Boy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipping_boy).  I finally accepted that I couldn't fix her nor fix the marriage.

Do you two have children?  Having children does make a life restart more complicated but definitely not impossible.

You've been pretty clear that you are terrified to end your marriage, so the idea that you would sabotage it in hopes that your wife would end it doesn't surprise me at all.

And whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing doesn't matter--IT WON'T WORK.

Think about your wife's behavior--she seems to NEED to blame you and attack you, making whatever you do or whatever you don't do wrong, and your behavior doesn't even matter. She doesn't want to end the marriage--she wants you as an emotional punching bag. And you are letting her do that.


Porn. What about it? You've heard people who say that it is wrong, and heard people say it isn't. Just the same, it is legal (at least involving consenting adults!)

That isn't what matters. What matters is first how you feel about it.

If you believe it is immoral or wrong, stop doing it.

If your wife says it is immoral and wrong, and demands that you stop... .and you agree under duress... .then I don't think I'd hold you morally responsible to living up to that. NOTE: From how you described your marriage, you've operated in fear of your wife for most or all of it, so I think pretty much everything you have promised her was under duress, as far as I can see.

I think this question would be more relevant... .is your wife really being more angry and more abusive than she was before this incident?

 

So... .straight out question.

Do you think looking at porn is wrong?  In a yes or no sense.

If the answer is yes... .is there a certain amount you are ok with? 

Basically... .how would you define what is OK or not.

Really... .this question needs to be answered before going much further.

Then... .only thinking of you here... .how "tight" do you hold to this.  Are you open to compromise or trading it away for the sake of something else.  (at this point... .just be theoretical)

FF

Look up the phrase Whipping Boy.  Is this marriage mostly about her punishing you for her own fears, perceptions, triggers, overreactions, etc?

Another question, is this the only issue that she argues about?  Somehow I doubt it.  If it's just one trigger or excuse among many, then resolving this one issue won't fix the relationship or solve everything, something else will surely be thrown at you, probably sooner rather than later.

"Another question, is this the only issue that she argues about?  Somehow I doubt it.  If it's just one trigger or excuse among many, then resolving this one issue won't fix the relationship or solve everything, something else will surely be thrown at you, probably sooner rather than later."

No, this isn't the only issue that Cipher's wife argues about.  This is the topic du jour.

I've kid of been avoiding coming back to read the posts on here but today I did. The reason was really I was trying to focus on this myself before reading the advise and comments. To be frank about the porn its something form my past and personally I don't think its and addiction but I also don't like that I go to that form of outlet when things get tough. I went to my T late last week and brought this up to him. We had a very good talk I thought anyway. So good in fact I made the mistake (Yeah should have known) of tell wife all we had discussed about this porn topic. One thing T mentioned was a type of passive aggressive behavior I kind of agreed with.  She yells, demands, belittles... .etc. and while I hold all that in without finding a safe place/method to unload that frustration I "take it out on her by looking at porn".   He used an example of a kid that was told by his mom to finish his home work. He didn't want to do it but did it anyway. But he didn't turn it in to get back at his mom for making him do it. This as you can imaging didn't sit well. She blew up and me and it hit the fan.

He original thought behind all hiding my internet looing habits from time to time was that she caused it and is fully to blame for it. When he suggested that this is a possibility it trigger that thought I her and now ever single time we are at the simplest disagreement (and even when we agree) she says I better not make you angry or you will blame me for x or y then go look up that crap on the internet.

One other thing I wanted to mention was the reason I was able to leave the service was a claimed hardship. She used the Red Cross to help communicate her "bipolar" or whatever mental anguish she claimed at the time and that my being separated was causing this hardship. I don't recall all the details. I doubt she was 100% honest but from what I was told by her parents it wasn't 100% made up from there point of view either.

Glad to hear you discussed the pron issue with your T.  It seemed like it was really bothering you and despite the crowdsourced therapy here, I think it's still best to see your T with whom you are comfortable discussing this.  I hope you are on the way to finding satisfaction on how pron intersects with you and your marriage.

There are plenty of marriages without any PDs present and pron is a wedge.  So this could have been an issue for you no matter what.  But that being said, since you are in a marriage with a pwBPD, make no mistake... .

... .you can get rid of the pron and she will still find something at fault with you.

I understand that.  I've thought for a while that sometimes posting here probably doesn't help you much and maybe even hurts.  You know an aspect of the response you get on here will always have some component of "you know what you need to do, but you've been unwilling to do it" feedback.  I know there's a broken record aspect to that, and it's not fun for any of us to experience.

On some level, I'm sure that contributes to a feeling of personal failure or weakness, and I know that doesn't feel good.  The main influence in your life (your wife) tells you aren't doing anything right, we tell you the same thing from a certain point of view as well.  At times at least, it's all got to feel just gawd awful. 

We all are rooting for you Cipher, we all are hoping to see a post from you one day about how you've managed to get yourself to a better place in life.  The biggest piece of advice I can give you right now, after going through what I did, taking my lumps, and finally growing to a better place is to learn to be true to yourself first.  That is the whole key to righting the ship.  When you're living you're life, authentically per your values, and holding boundaries to keep it that way even if it leads to the end of relationships, that makes everything else in life that gets thrown at you insignificant. 

If that means enjoying the occasional gander at nekkid women, hey, you're a red blooded guy.  We all appreciate the sight.  It's a problem when it interferes with other aspects of your life.  If it's interfering with your ability to handle the issues with your wife, then it needs to go.  Make the decision to let it go, and figure out what a better response is for you to replace it.

Cipher:  +1 on what Waddams said.  I'm in your corner and rooting for you.

And... .figure out how not to get caught... .

Also... .99.9% sure it's not a good idea to discuss T or porn with your wife... .ever again.

My wife accused and accused of me looking at others... .not necessarily porn... .but "the reason you like that music video is because of the girl in the yellow bikini... .that type of thing... "

Then... .out of nowhere... .my wife sends me a naked picture of another woman via email.

I brought it up in MC (this was years ago) ... .the  MC was a lady as well.

I clarified to my wife that I had no interest in her providing me porn.  My wife was mortified... .

But... you know what... the accusations stopped... .  weird.

Don't get caught... .lesson number 1

FF

Not looking is the best way not to get caught... .But like most other things this is the issue of the day and when that is no longer the elephant in the room there will be something to take its place. She hold on to the past (almost exclusively the negative past) for dear life as if it is the force that keeps her alive. That's just my opinion. I'm sure its not as bad as that but its relatively close.

The constant that has never changed is the constant requirement and need for constant validation. Both emotional and physical. More so Physical the last several years. I am not a forward "Lady's Man" kind of person. I shy away form most intimate connections unless I am 100% confident in myself/situation. Which isn't very typical. Even after 15 years in this relationship I am not there yet as much as I figure I should be. Definitely not where she feels I need to be. She asks me daily to give her physical and emotional attention and affirmation. More so when she is angry or upset with me or something else. It very draining.

What part is your opinion? That it is the force that keeps her alive? or that she holds on to the past?

If she keeps bringing the past up to you and hammering you for it, that is a fact. One of the problems is that we at times want to make excuses for their bad behavior. I have come a long way in that regards. I am tired of getting beat over the head.

Until you have had enough you will keep letting her destroy you. I hate this for you. You will have to make the decision to stop putting up with this crap. That is what I have had to do. It's not easy (for some).

You are going to have to like/love yourself to begin making progress. Hang in there. I hope you find it within yourself to stop beating yourself up.

My Ex, and many described here in peer support, developed a pattern as her disorderedness increasingly transformed her over the years to where she never 'remembered' her poor actions and never had to apologize for them and yet my actions were always brought up over and over no matter how many times I apologized.  Her rules for her were different from her rules for me.


When my Ex got upset with me, which was increasingly frequent in the final years, she didn't want to be touched by me, at all, for weeks at a time.  But that was after we had a child.  I became the blamed guy and our child the Golden Child.  Sometimes she would have our toddler/preschooler hold her breasts "to comfort him".

I tried to lighten the dark moods.  When she was upset with me, I would ask her to punish me by making me give her a back rub.  She refused, she didn't want closeness and what that might lead to.  I know you're having difficulty with your wife's constant neediness but I can tell you that for me my now-Ex's emotional/physical distance was a hardship and deep frustration.

Correct... .

Perhaps I didn't quite put this out there the right way.

If you don't want to look at porn... .don't.

If you do, then look at it.

next bit of nuance.  If you are doing something that is your choice and doesn't affect someone else, then there is a decision to make.

If they don't want you to do it and you do want to do it.

You can make a deal with them (not recommended with pwBPD)

You can let them know that what is on your computer is private.  Stop discussing it.  Be prepared for extinction burst stuff... .but you win this one.  It's up to your wife to sort out if she won or lost.

Telling your wife (PD or otherwise) that you will quit doing something and then continuing to do it (and getting caught) is going to be confusing (for anyone).

Telling your wife you won't do it, continuing to do it and not getting caught is better than above, but leaves issues with honesty (depending on your morals)


Have I missed any options? 

What I bolded is my recommendation.

FF

FF
Good points. That area of saying this is what I want to do (for myself) is not my first instinct. My head goes to putting her first in all considerations like dinner, movies, TV shows, vacations, household chores, etc. This internet issue has been my way I think of having my own time. I' rather it be more of a positive thing like fishing or reading a book... .of which I am going to try my best to replace the internet looking.

Also I have a hard time with not letting her go. When she is telling me she's done and its over I want that to be so. My mind goes into a spin of yes I to want this. But I do not express it in return saying I don't want that. I want our relationship to be fixed and be what we both want it to be. What I really want to say is "Yeah me too." But some reason I think that will let her down even more. This kind of thinking has kept me in this doomed relationship for 15 years.

Perhaps... .

The one thing I like is "this kind of thinking" which was tied by to you explaining how you think.  So... pretty clearly you have taken responsibility.  

My hope and prayer for you is that in a few months you will say "I have chosen to stay in this r/s for 15 years"

Many of us nons (me included) can get into thinking about ourselves as victims that are being "attacked" by a pwBPD... .and that we are powerless to defend or save ourselves.  Unfortunately in many cases... .technically that is true.  If we are victims we build up resentment about others (the persecutors) and eventually lash out at them.

If we are responsible for our own choices, then the focus is turned to us, vice the pwBPD.  The good thing about focusing on us is that we are 100% in control of our choices.

Look, years ago I would lie to my wife (bad FF... .bad!   ) and say things like "I don't know anything about X", sometimes she would figure out later that I did know about "X" and she correctly figured out I was lying my a$$ off to protect "something".  That fueled paranoid fears.

My decisions damaged the relationship... I'm 100% responsible for that.

Once I got straight in my head that I am valuable enough to have privacy and to "enforce privacy" and to "stand up" to anyone that would seek to take away my privacy... .things started to improve in my relationship and in my life.  And yes... .I freaked out my wife.

Basically... .I thought of myself first (in regards to privacy) and was unapologetic about it

She accused me of being a "selfish a$$hole".  That was pretty easy to validate... .as it was true.  (the emotion... )

Now I would say something like

FF wife (harsh and probing):  :)id you talk about me today at your appointment with P?  What did you say?

FF:  :)iscussions with my P are private.  I'm willing to set up joint time if there are things you would like to ask or discuss.

If she asks in more of a musing way... .vice "demanding to know".

FF:  Boy (ff wife name), those sessions last about an hour and we cover a lot of ground.  There's really no way for me to accurately recall everything we said, so it's best if I don't try.

See how the second one is a little softer?  There are times when I try "softer" when she is demanding.  Sometimes it inflames her vice shuts down the probing discussion.

This is wear experience and "practicing the art" comes in.  When there is a musing (yet probing question) the goal is to not "ramp it up".  Soft is definitely called for first.

When a demand is out there... .it's hard to know if "validation" or "soft" will work, but you know for sure that this line of question needs to be done.  

Hope this makes sense.

Split up the issues... .big boundaries between issues in your mind and in your life.

If you like to look at porn, that's your business.  :)on't involved others (including your wife) in your business if they don't respect and value you.

FF

Probably repeating things I and others have said before, but you're FOG'd up so bad you habitually never think of taking care of yourself.  Therapy and space/separation from her are needed to address this.  If not physical separation, then at least emotional separation and physically removing yourself when starts to throw FOG at you (like leaving, going for a walk, to a park, to a movie on your own, etc.).  You're going to feel bad for telling her "no" and standing up for yourself.  You've been conditioned to for 15 years.  :)eep down, you want out, but you need to figure out how to overcome your conditioning.  

As for not wanting to let her down even more, all I can say is adults are responsible for managing themselves.  You aren't there to protect her from feeling bad.  If she feels bad, or even worse than now, because you end it and leave, THAT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM.  There is a huge difference between feeling compassion and being codependent.  It's okay to keep compassion for the pain she'll experience, but understand you staying only makes it worse when you do eventually snap and leave (and that's coming), and the more you try to be resopnsible for her feelings, the more you enable her to continue to be so dysfunctional.  She WON'T grow and get better as long as you are there to continue in this cycle.  The ONLY way she gets better, and therefore the ONLY way you can precipitate it happening, is to not be there to carry her emotions for her. Your leaving is not letting her down.   Her behavior now and response to your leaving is her letting herself down.

You either:
-Figure out how to not carry that burden for her while staying with her, with the understanding, there will be a huge extinction burst, and she may never stop FOG'ing and abusing you, she may never stop trying to get you to continue your role up to this point, -or-

-Leave and don't be available for her to participate in this cycle.  If she's alone, she has to deal with her emotions on her own.  Sometimes, leaving is the best thing you can do for them.  They won't see it that way, especially right now, and maybe not ever, but that doesn't change the truth of it.

Maybe this should be on a different post but its related so I will continue on. Waddams as usual you make thing perfectly clear. So brief update in my life: I am moving again. Sold our house yesterday. Moving in with the in-laws (also again) for a few weeks until we can move in to new house. The added stress now has moved form buying/selling to living with her parents again. I'm ok with it (not my first choice but they have been very welcoming) she is so against it that it is causing extinction bursts. She's asking me what am I going to do to not piss her off. My first thought was to not say or do any thing but I know that will set her off because 20 minutes of not having a form of contact sets her off.  Yesterday I took the day off work to move our large items to store at her parents. She was at work. From 4:30 am I got up took apart all here weight machines and exercise equipment. Rents a truck and loaded it up. Then unloaded it. I had 1 helper. From the time she got home from work to well as I am typing this this morning she has been angry. I know its mostly the situation (living arrangements) that she it ticked off about. I get the brunt of it. Just great.

But let me guess... .it was her choice to sell the house and move, right?

I guess you've already bought the house or in the process?

Frankly, if the relationship is coming to an end it would be best to do it when you have the least amount of joint assets.  Which from what I read is what you're pondering right now?  Where are you on the relationship?  You know she's not going to change by very much if at all.  (For her to improve she would need long term therapy that she applied in her life and thinking.)  So real improvement is left up to you and your decisions.

I know this is the deciding or conflicted board, but (frankly again) if you're between houses why not postpone the next house until you decide whether you will stay in a dysfunctional relationship?  Not to mention if we are about to head into a financial downturn, as some say may happen, you could end up selling the house in a down housing market.

What I'm saying is that if the marriage does end sooner rather than later, it would be less complicated Now.  You could move out of the in-laws' house and she would have a place to live while you and her unwound the legal details of the remaining marital assets.  The opportunity now that would reduce divorce issues is that (1) you would not end up supporting her for a few years in a house she probably can't afford to pay on her own and (2) you would have fewer marital assets over which to argue.

What do you think?  Does it sound reasonable to delay buying another house (which purchase would make a separation harder and more complicated) until you determine which direction your relationship is heading?

Disclaimer:  I am a strong supporter of marriage but admit I found myself in an increasingly dysfunctional marriage that was cornering me into emotional and legal risks.  I had to admit to myself that our marriage was dysfunctional and unhealthy.  My marriage imploded.

Unfortunately the deal is done. I had really tried to extend this buying process. The original deal pretty much fell through and I wasn't happy with the outcome so I thought we would be moving on. Then eventually they came to terms. The answer to whose idea it was is correct. Hers not mine. Although I do want to be closer to work and this cuts my drive in half. I'm an hour and 15 mins right now.

Because of the moving and staying at the in-laws and this internet issue things haven't been this rocky and that's includes a lot stuff for a lot of years.