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Well she is speaking to me again.  Told her I didn't want anything just to be able to talk from time to time and know she has moved from never speaking to me again to wanting to talk to me.  Its like at the first sign of me possibly detaching and letting her go she comes running back in some fashion.

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Thread continued from: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=299288.0

I agree with Meili, and when you purposely don't communicate with her, notice what your emotions are telling you, which ones are strongest; it's a great opportunity to explore that without any influence from her, so you can learn about yourself and what your true feelings are.  It's about clarity, the option being the roundy round you're used to.

fromheel

i understand what you and meili are saying.  And we have had plenty of periods lately where we dont talk.  I guess that was because of her but still havent fallen out of love with her or wanted to be with her any less. 

How about you commit to 90 days of not communicating with her in any way?  I can tell you from experience that when you eliminate the influence of a partner for a decent amount of time, your perceptions will change.  And if you are headed for a long term relationship, 90 days won't mean much.  Does that sound like something you could do?

OB -- these few sentences are worth looking at again.  It may be worth re-examining the idea that there is something about you that needs to be fixed in order for you two to try again some day.  (I know you didn't explicitly say that is the only reason to work on self-healing but look at the causal link that is floating just under the surface -- if I get better, it might work between us.)

What if the only thing you need to "fix" is the craving for someone who is ambivalent, who has you jumping through endless hoops to prove your love for her and to earn her love back?

fromheel

how do I do that without making her really mad since I just got her to agree to talk to me again

patient,

you maybe right.  IDK, I lied to her but we had been through so much of it and she said she was ready to be done with it all and move on so I just didnt want to drag up anymore problems.  So that is on me, but I have never thought of myself as a liar or dishonest.  just avoided the problem I guess

You get to a place where her emotions don't matter as much to you as yours do.  If she gets mad, she gets mad, while codependency dies.

so just walk away?  i risk losing her for good if I do that.

Not sure if this will comfort you, but drawing on my own store of experience: I wanted to stick it out while my ex explored his issues with relationship ambivalence in therapy. I settled in to remain ambiguously close.  Then realized he was pursuing an ex--I was not the only special friend in the picture. It made me feel gross. I did an about-face and explained myself very generally--"I need to take some time; whenever I'm with you I'm wanting it to be more; will be back in touch when and if I can; be well." He was upset. He however responded by more seriously pursuing the other ex.

A year later I got back in touch when I knew they were no longer together (what happened was murky). We were instantly better than ever. What ensued was a deeper, more real r/ship than the first time around (albeit ambiguously defined). I was less addicted and he was less honeymoon-ish. It was very worthwhile.

We've had several long breaks. I'm sad when they happen. However each time when we reconnect there is more worthwhile material. Still not enough for us to make a go of a real r/ship. But my point is, due at least to growth on my end, nothing has been lost for good with these breaks. If there's anything real there to start with, it should still be there down the road.

I know it hurts like heck to step back. But consider the damage you may be doing to yourself and the r/ship by accepting this.

patient,

IDK what to do. I wish someone could just tell me do this and she will come back.  I feel like we arent over yet, I have felt for a long time I was the only one that could end it all together

I'm sure that's true!  Knowing that ... .do you see that maybe you don't actually have to do anything?  That regardless of what you do or don't do, this thing ends up in the ambiguous middle, at least as much due to her efforts as yours?  Can you just relax into that knowledge a little and not be so actively working on the situation?  I think it might feel better to just let the stream take you.  She doesn't seem to really leave.  That begs the question of whether what she does when she's around works for you, but if it does -- she doesn't seem to be going far.

I see your point, just hard for me to do.  I would rather do the work and chase her i guess than sit on my hands

OB,

I'm going to ask you a tough question but I think it is one you need to give some serious thought on.

Is this desire to make it right motivated from guilt?

Its funny you ask that... .because my gf has said as much. 

My desire to make it right comes from I feel thats the only way to get her back.  And thats what I want.  I don't want to be over, I don't want to simply be friends.  I want to be in a r/s with the woman I love.

I told her guilt wouldn't keep me around and keep me trying for this long.  I feel like I have paid my debt.  I simply want to be with her, and if I need to over pay to get her back so be it.  I know that is probably the worst idea ever.  But the other option js walk, and risk her for good.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but she left you, right Oncebitten?  And she justified it by blaming you for whatever, as borderlines do, but she left you nonetheless, yes?  So what if you go about your life, do what you do, and if she comes back, she comes back, if not, then not?  And if she doesn't, she doesn't want to be with you anyway, so why chase that?

I don't know... .I know what you say makes sense... .but my heart just demands her.

Fromheel,

You are absolutely right.  She left me over something stupid to begin with.  Then wants to be angry with me that while broken up I spent time with another woman.  And hate me forever that I didn't tell her right away when we started talking again.  When we first spoke again she only wanted my friendship.  So how can she think she is entitled to everything when we were broken up.  And I am so tired of chasing someone who doest want me anymore.  I didn't handle things perfectly but I have apologized repeatedly and tried to fix everything.  All i wanted was some forgiveness.  I earned it I know I did.

Well there you go, there's some finality to what you're saying, at least in this moment.  As I mentioned before, a good plan would be to commit to yourself to not communicate with her in any way for 90 days, as a suggestion, and let your emotions even out so you can make decisions from that place.  And you can look at it as if she can't wait 90 days for you and runs off with someone else, entirely her right since you're not together anyway, then she may not be the gal for you in the long run, and it's her loss.  Time to take your power back man.

Well I guess thats the problem.  I didn't wait 90 days. Not even close, but when she came back I went back to her immediately and cut off things with the other woman. 

OB, several times you've mentioned that you just want someone to tell you what to do. There have been several people here who have told you exactly the same thing about what to do.

I guarantee you that each of us knows how scary the thought of going NC can be when the emotional kibble that we have been receiving works as a temporary salve for our pains.

But, look at the big picture of your r/s. Has the emotional kibble been enough for you? In the moment, I bet that it is. But, over time, from an outsider perspective, it really doesn't seem to be. Am I wrong about that?

Have you reviewed How a Borderline Relationship Evolves (https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves) lately?

GO NO CONTACT... .trust us. It is the ONLY way to stop the bleeding for you, and to minimize the hate the other person has at the moment.  Why do they hate?  Here is a snippet from BPD on how they think:

"I find it difficult to even imagine what traits a person would need in order for their relationship with me to work.

If I was dating a very patient, healthy and caring person, I'd leave them because I'd feel sorry for them.

If it was somebody more assertive and controlling, I'd leave them because I can't stand being the weaker one.

If it was a needy, submissive person, I'd either abuse the heck out of them or discard them like trash.

I wouldn't be happy in a relationship where both parties openly talk about their feelings, because it would lead to too much drama.

I wouldn't be happy in a relationship where either or both of us doesn't say everything about themselves, because then it would feel like we're never close/intimate enough.

I'm in a sort of mock relationship right now and I have no hopes of it surviving any more than 2 years."


and finally:

"Its a pretty predictable pattern the way it unfolds with Nons. They are usually very taken with me in the beginning. I think its the chameleon aspect, it makes it appear we have so much in common, since I usually show a lot of interest in whatever they are interested, I ask questions, am sweet, docile, submissive, etc. They usually begin to fall in love. Things go smoothly for a few months, this way.

The problem is that they are only falling in love with my "mask," I'm basically manipulating them the whole time. I flatter and charm them. But then I get restless. I start rocking the boat, testing them, picking fights, drinking too much, acting erratic, etc. At that point they usually start to notice i'm crazy and either break up with me, or sometimes they keep hanging on for awhile hoping I will change, or something. but i'm usually bored by then. its like I conquered them and there is no more challenge"

The only way to win (and get you sanity back) is to go NO CONTACT.  They may return, or they may not.  It depends on many factors, but at the end of the day wouldn't you want someone to return on their own free will?  You can only control you.

I think you need to realize that the harder you try, and the closer you get, the more you are hurt and pushed away.
A PWBPD needs an attachment to feel whole and exist. They want someone who will give them unconditional love, continually accept what ever they do; they really desire someone who will make them feel better about themselves and believe if they find that special person then life will be happy and fulfilling for them. The truth for them, and everyone else, is that only we can change how we really feel about ourselves.

I will echo what others have said to you; going NC for long enough to get out of the FOG and clearly evaluate things is best. It will be extremely painful, especially if you figure out why you want to be with someone who continually disrespects and hurts you, but you will gain valuable perspective.
I learned that by continuing contact with my ex. I was causing pain for not only me, but her as well; because of my deep love for her I finally chose to remain strict NC.
Without years of therapy that has to be chosen and committed to by the PWBPD, it just isn't possible to have a mature, healthy relationship.

If you continually put someone else's heart and feelings ahead of your own, eventually you will loose touch with reality, and loose yourself; many people have suffered tremendous losses.