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I'm not sure if it's okay to be posting on two boards (if not, I'm sorry), but I've been both trying to practice non-attachment as best I can for now, while also keeping the option of reconciliation as a possibility (hence some saving board posts).

I'm really looking for advice right now. My ex just posted a very depressing status on social media about how she's going through a hard time (with the loss of her mother). It really isn't like her to post feelings online and be so upfront about any emotions, so I can tell she's really struggling. Part of me feels like I should just send her a validating message and remind her that I'm here if she needs me. Another part of me knows that I have already told her that... .so she could just reach out to me if she wanted to. She must not want to... .right?

I'm torn on this. It's difficult for me to see her so upset and not console her in any way. But I don't want to make things worse by possibly reaching out too soon, or just make myself feel worse if she reacts poorly. My gut instinct is always to let her know I'm here and she's not alone. While I know NC can be important, I also feel like I shouldn't blindly stick by it if I feel like I could help her. And then again, I don't want to "take advantage" when she's feeling especially emotional either.

If anyone has any thoughts or advice I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.

Hi JJ-


Posting on two boards is fine, and it does indicate you're torn, which you mention. 

Is it really possible to practice non-attachment as best I can for now, while also keeping the option of reconciliation as a possibility?  It really depends on who's attachment we're talking about, yours or hers.  Not communicating with a borderline, and being unemotional and brief if you do, is the way to indicate that an attachment is no longer in place for you, so eventually the borderline will look elsewhere for an attachment.  But not communicating is not detaching for you, it's just not communicating; detaching is working through the grieving process, processing the emotions, and letting go of the hope that the relationship might continue.  It's in part acceptance that it's over.

So the best question is what's the goal?

Did you struggle with staying NC b4 you read her post?
My guess that it was hard for you like it is to most of us here so as I see it her showing weakness online just gives you an opportunity to be the care taker once more and save her from sadness.

keep in mind the reasons that brought you here. She didn't change and they will only return with more impact if you break NC and go back to her.

There are 541757 post in this board that validates what I just wrote.

and by the way NC is also not checking her Social media and not only "not talking/texting/seeing" to her. checking SM is like peeking through her window to see how she is doing and sometimes like what happens here those peeking results in breaking NC that will only bring you back to day one.

stay strong and keep away

Thank you both. FHTH, I guess I'm not fully ready to move on yet. I've been trying to not expect anything, but I am still hoping that someday it will.

NC has been very difficult for me. And you're right, Sinister, I know technically I shouldn't be checking that either. I just mean NC in the sense of communication.

But wouldn't she contact me if she wanted to talk to me?

Depends on her strongest emotion of the moment; she may want to talk to you and still have that attachment in place, but it might be too painful for her to reach out due to her reality of the past, present, and future. Sadly the closer you get and the more you want to help, the more you are pushed away.

You might cause more pain for both of you if you break NC; think of the overall relationship for both of you, then decide if it is best to contact her.

I have had a very similar situation to this.

In my case a friend of mine spotted her in a shop and contacted me to say that she looked very depressed and just not good at all.

I reached out breaking a couple of months of NC and she was actually very receptive.

This did actually lead to a recycle. Which obviously ended badly again. (I also found out she was getting drunk and having group sex during this time she was "depressed"

The whole thing cost me another YEAR of serious pain, and it was all based on that one decision to reach out.

Point is, sometimes they may be glad to hear from you if you break NC but you also can't predict what's going to come out of it.

I think you should try to be as honest with yourself as you possibly can.

I.e:

are you reaching out for legit reasons or something sense that this may be an "opportunity" to get back in the good books

Are you emotionally strong enough to handle contact

 Think long and hard, does she have other people she can talk to etc.

I'm not saying do or do not but breaking NC is not to be taken lightly

Thanks, lovenature. I agree that it could cause more pain, and that's my hesitance. I'm struggling to make that call.

She was the one who ultimately decided that she didn't want to try for a r/s anymore, said she wanted to move on and suggested we not speak for a while. She said she didn't want to cut me out of her life completely but that we would, "talk when we talk." She said that right now being around me is too confusing and in the past 2 months she has not reached out to me at all, except a brief text once, to thank me for acknowledging the anniversary of her mother's passing. I basically said a "you're welcome" type response and that was that. I wanted to leave her in control, as that was something she had expressed a desire for before. She felt like she wasn't in control of anything. So if she wanted to continue the conversation she could have, and I would have as well... .but she did not so neither did I.

I guess since I've always assumed a caretaker role with her, my natural inclination is to try to soothe her emotions. But I'm not sure if she wants me to or not. I really don't know if she would appreciate it or be upset by it.

Infern0, I just got your response as I was about to post this. Thank you for that insight.
You make some very good points.

-I genuinely do care about her wellbeing regardless of my involvement in her life, so in that sense my incentive to reach out is pure... .but I also would love to speak to her again at some point (doesn't have to be today, just some time) because I do miss her like crazy. So there may be a bit of opportunistic logic at play as well if I'm being honest.
- I'm not sure about my own emotional wellbeing... .I have always been very susceptible to her - when she's happy with me, I'm happy. When she's not, I'm not. I know it isn't healthy.
 -She does have other people to talk to it seems... .not so much when we were together, but it appears that she has been reaching out to them more now.

All of those points make it seem like perhaps I shouldn't act too quickly. So maybe it is best if I sleep on this.

I have two sides when it comes to my ex

One side genuinely cares about her wellbeing

The other side is selfish and is the "addict" side who wants to feel happy again and sees her as a tool for that.

I decided no contact is the best option until if/when the second side no longer exists.

Maybe something to think about.

Hi guys
If you pull up a song that first came out in the 60's called " you just keep me hangin on " or even just read the lyrics it may help. I swear it was written by someone who had broken up with a BPD partner. Word for word. It's also easy to translate it into " I just keep me hangin on" cos that's what I did.
Now
also read the words to my poem " I hate you don't leave me" not that I am comparing my efforts to a famous song. It's just that both have very strong feelings about the anguish and doubt we are all going or have been through. Hope this helps a bit.
Love from Sadly xx

Hi JJacks0,

I think this ^ is a good idea. When in doubt, I usually say "don't act yet." I remember when pwBPD (indirectly) contacted me after a period of NC. I just didn't know how to respond, and I kept waiting for some kind of idea, feeling, etc., about what I should do. Ultimately, I did nothing, because I just wasn't sure how I wanted to react, if at all.

Today, I'm glad that I didn't respond. You may feel differently. I understand your care taking tendencies; I have them, too, and it's important for me that people I care about know that I care about them. But, since she has asked you not to reach out for a while, this is an opportunity to take care of yourself, rather than her. What is best for YOU? To respect her wishes that you not contact her? Or to show her—again—that you care. If it were me, I would respect her wishes and let her contact me when she is ready. In the meantime, you might investigate your need to show her that you care about her.

What do you think?

heartandwhole

You were trying to detach for a reason.  Stay strong, and let the feeling pass. Sometimes if you love her you truly have to let her go.

Thanks everyone.

The problem is I don't think I was ever really trying to detach. I'm so used to her being in my life, that I think part of me tried to get on with things just to scrape by, all the while hoping and awaiting the day when she would contact me again.

I think a large part of my need to constantly show her that I care stems from guilt. I feel guilty about my role in the r/s and her perceptions that I was not there enough toward the end.

I do want to respect her and would feel 100% better about contact if it were initiated by her. The thing is, I don't know if she'll ever be ready.

Good awareness and honesty JJ.  And you're speaking in past tense here; does that mean you're considering focusing on detaching now?  The emotional distance between a sliver of hope and no hope at all is a big one, and it takes a leap to get there, but once you do and feel through the emotions there's a freedom to it too.


More good honesty and introspection.  I felt guilty about my ex's perceptions too, and how crazy is that, really?  Like we can control someone else's perceptions, and of course with a borderline it has to be our fault that the relationship isn't working, the alternative being take responsibility, and I don't know about you but my ex would never, ever go there.  So is there a way for you to own what's yours and let go of what's hers, so you can address the guilt around only things you're actually responsible for?

To be honest, not really. I still have lingering hope - I have not made that leap yet. Prior to this 2 month stretch, the longest we went without talking was 9 days. That was when she called me, I went to see her, and she changed her mind hours later. And the thing is, I knew as soon as she called me that it couldn't be time yet - nothing substantial could have changed in 9 days. But I missed her so much, I went over anyways.

Now, however, I think there's a chance that something could be different. By that I mean I have learned a lot about my role in the r/s, how to more effectively communicate and respond to her, etc... .
So even if nothing about her has changed at all, things could be better because of my knowledge and the responsibility that I take in my actions.
Part of me thinks I won't actually accept this and be ready to detach until I'm able to try once more, and for lack of a better phrase, "exhaust all options." I've been fighting for her for 7 years, it's just so hard to stop.



The thing is, my ex did take responsibility. Not always, and not initially, but she would eventually come around. She actually made some great progress right before her mom passed away. After that is when it all pretty much went to h--- again. She has really tried, and made some remarkable improvements. I regret not giving her more credit for those achievements. I did tell her that I noticed, but it probably wasn't mentioned enough. Because although I noticed, there were still some major red flags that needed to be fixed before I was ready to make her my "priority" again. I still wanted to be treated better and find a healthier place to build upon. I still wanted to be with her, but it didn't seem right to reenter a relationship under the conditions that were- I just thought we had more work to do, but she didn't want to have to try so hard anymore. She was tired and just wanted it to finally happen. In hindsight I can see her frustration. She must have felt like she had done so much, and I still wasn't satisfied.

I think at this point, I have a decent gauge of what I was responsible for vs. what she was responsible for. The problem is that the things I am responsible for are not things I've been able to forgive myself for yet.

That's valid, and probably true.  I will probably never see or talk to my ex again, but it has crossed my mind that I wonder how well I'd do today, with all we've learned, since I didn't even find out there was such a thing as borderline personality disorder until after I left her.

You've been posting on the Saving board too JJ, and you might also try the Improving board to get some input from folks who are in relationships with borderlines currently; that's where the rubber hits the road, where you need to use the tools in real time in the relationship.


Yes, forgiveness is a process and forgiving ourselves can be the hardest.  A big piece for me was realizing and accepting I was making decisions, doing the best I could, under conditions of significant stress, good for uncovering what we're really about, but not usually our best performance, by any stretch.  So I cut myself some slack and used it to grow.  And then, realizing the value of forgiving ourselves can put a lot of emphasis on it, and the tools are out there, lots but all different, it's whatever works.

Take care of you!

I am a care taker too JJ; I have learned that when we constantly put another persons heart and feelings ahead of our own we loose ourselves.

Maybe best for you to look at the improving board more if you really think you want to continue your relationship with her; most people will agree that without years of therapy, a relationship with a PWBPD just causes more pain for both partners.

Regardless of the decision you make, you need to look after yourself.

Thanks for the input.

You're right about losing ourselves, lovenature. I lasted about 7 years and I didn't even want to separate then, but I knew I couldn't live up to her expectations at that moment in time. She was already unhappy with me and wanted to put more pressure on our relationship despite that. At this point I was depressed and anxious and entirely confused. I knew I loved her but I had begun to feel physical consequences of my anxiety and I was just burnt out. I even had a bout of depersonalization triggered by stress and anxiety, that lasted for nearly 3 months - one of the most terrifying things I've ever experienced as I had no idea what was happening at the time.

I guess the reason I've avoided the Improving board is because we're not speaking right now and the last time we spoke she was no longer interested in working on our r/s. In fact, she encouraged me to move on. Whether or not I believe that is what she actually wants is a different story, but I'd never try to convince someone to be with me if they say they don't want to anymore. I have, however, looked at the improving board from time to time to observe what other people are currently discussing. It reminds me of the chaos that I lived in for so long, and at times validates my decision to separate. Although I didn't want it to end up like this, it probably had to happen. I don't think anything would have ever changed (for either of us) if we continued living under that same roof.

I do want to give things another go with her, despite all the reasons that suggest I shouldn't. If nothing else, it would be easier to accept knowing I really did give it my all. Moreover, I really do love her. We talk a lot on these boards about the reasons why we, as nons, are attracted to people with BPD. I know there is something deeper inside me that draws me to her, but aside from that I really do love her personality (when she isn't dysregulated) - our values, interests, humor, etc. is a connection that I've never felt before. I really want to find a way to give this another go, but because of her rejection, I've felt I had no choice but to detach. I realize I'm not actually doing this, but I know that at this point I'm supposed to.

Read many times that whatever you do, or change, it will never be enough for a BPD. They are like a black whole.  Last time was a 3 month period of de personalization, which you described as being one of the most difficult times in your life. What happens if she takes you back, you give it your all, and it's still not enough? Are you ready for the potential devastating pain?

I also taught at one time, that armed with my new found knowledge of BPD, and validation and communication that I was ready to change my BPDex, and we would live happily ever after.  Her being untreated, and unchanged made my techniques useless.  I was in the FOG at the time and like you I was always questioning well if I would have done things differently ... .In truth it wouldn't matter.

My advice is wait on her. Chances are she'll re-engage at some point.  In the mean time while waiting try to seek help on the issues that causes you to want a relationship with someone who has caused you much pain.

You make a good point, Rayban.

I felt many times during our r/s that what I did was never good enough.
I'm trying to focus on graduating and getting my degree right now, so I am worried about the negative impact that could come from entering into the chaos again. That includes even seeing what she's up to or knowing what she's doing. I'm pretty vulnerable still, in that I know anything involving her could really derail me. She's like my kryptonite.

I am going to take your advice for now. I wish I could be more firm in my decisions, but unfortunately I'm also self-aware enough to know how susceptible I am when it comes to her. But I do think it should be her choice to contact me. I also had quite the revelation last night while thinking about your last comment. She was my first real relationship, but for some reason I am always drawn to people like her. At first I thought it coincidental, but the more I see members here talk about it, the more I realize that my desire for this type of r/s is definitely something that needs to be looked into.

I can recommend the book "co-dependant no more" by Melody Beattie; this book helped me to understand why I have put others ahead of myself (caretaking) for a long time, it was a very painful realization, but necessary to move towards a better life.
FOO issues are the root of the problem for many members.

Remember self compassion during these tough times JJ.

JJacksO,

I understand what you're going through, I've been there when I was seeing my exBPDgf. Her father had died and I reached out to her, even drove across country to be with her in her time of need. WOW the biggest mistake I've ever made. Once I got there she refused to see me, BEGGED me not to show up to the service or reach out to any family member. She made excuses as to why but as we've all come to experience none of it made sense.

Your BPD will most likely be no different ... .like mine posting in public about the death of a family member I believe it was a way to manipulate not only me but other "suiters" as well. It's probably the reason why she didn't want me come to the viewing or funeral. I was only one suppling her need to feed. Come to think about it, she has never posted anything of any r/s including her now ex-husband. She keeps it to things of herself, her thinking, etc. Some what Narcissistic wouldn't you think? And it allows her to deny any "romantic involvement" when she "friends" her new supply.

So my guidance to you is to let it go, leave it alone. Nothing good will come from this. There will be a negative impact as you point out and you'll be starting all over again and you don't need that if your trying to graduate and move forward with your life. 

Rayban gives you some solid guidance. This is about YOU and getting YOU to a good place. Do seek out a good therapist in BPD / Codependent r/s and do the deep dive on yourself that will help you understand you better. And if you still feel like you're feeling the affects of trauma from your BPD I would certainly seek out someone who is practiced in EMDR treatment with the guidance of your therapist.

Take a deep breath ... .things are going to get better. You're going in a good direction. Come back here as often as you need to, if you're feeling weak or if you need guidance or you just want to vent.

J