BPDFamily.com

hi. ummmm. i've been with my current partner for 2 years. the first 18 months were incredible. the most amazing time of my entire life. the last 6 months have been really weird and fraught and needy and bizarre and intense and confusing. i'd heard of BPD before, so it's not an entirely new concept, but this is the first time i've been close to someone with BPD. i should add that i'm guessing that this is what my partner has. he's not diagnosed. we've been going round in utterly bizarre circles the past 6 months and i've tried everything i can think of, to make sense of his moods and his needs and of the things he says (which are often utterly contradictory). within those 6 months i've been at the point of walking away from the relationship 4 or 5 times, just because i couldn't cope with the craziness of the situation anymore. i've been at that point again this week and have been clear that i'm breaking up with him and that i can't do this anymore. as anyone here will know, trying to break up with a (presumably) BPD person elicits some very weird responses and situtations, in and of itself. today, i was soo close to just breaking off all contact entirely and not looking back. it made me look back on the past 2 years of our relationship and especially the last 6 months. because i really felt like "it's utterly over" it felt like i had more headspace to look at the whole situation clearly and calmly. and i started wondering "what on EARTH has been going on?". and suddenly "BPD" was the only thing that made any sense at all. i know that labels like "BPD" can be used as a weapon or an insult, so i want to be very careful not to do that, especially as i've come from weeks and weeks of frustration, confusion, anger, etc. what makes me really think that BPD fits the bill are those utterly amazing, incredible, romantic, intimate first 18 months. i've never experienced anything like it in my life. and i remember wondering how this person could be so amazing, special, wonderful, incredible... i mean, he's so amazing, it's uncanny. and that's something i've heard of quite a few times, re BPD. so... reading here on this site today and on "BPD central" to make sure i wasn't getting things muddled up, things kind of fell into place. and i thought long and hard about whether to mention it to him. whether to ask him "do you think you might have BPD? has the thought ever crossed your mind?". (so many cons. so many pros, too.). in the end, i did ask him (via email). i've not had a reply yet, but i'm kind of dreading the reply. i presume his reply will be "whaaaat? are you kidding?" etc etc etc. and if that's his reply, i dunno what to do. i know that's the reply i should be preparing myself for. it's what's most likely. i doubt he'll really (be able to) give it any thought. . so, what now? i guess i need to accept that either:. 1. he has BPD but is not willing to address it . (which would be utter chaos and the relationship stands no chance). 2. he has something similar to BPD but doesn't want to address it. (same consequences as above). 3. we're just not compatible for some reason, which is making him seem so bizarre to me that i'm starting to seriously think he must have BPD cos i can no longer understand him at all. (same consequences as above). 4. he has BPD (or something similar) and is willing to address it. (lots and lots of hard work and patience required with many challenging times ahead). i think the chances that he'll be willing to address whatever it is that he's got going on are really low. so i assume he's just going to claim that it's # 3 - that i'm weird for thinking he's weird. i need to try and make peace with that. and to just let him go. whether it's BPD, something similar, or we're just so ludicrously incompatible it's making us seem nuts to each other. (the intensely amazing first 18 months of our relationship make me think we're not so incompatible and that it is BPD). so, given that i've suddenly realised that BPD is probably what it is, where i've been like a minute away from walking away forever. that makes me suddenly hopeful that "if only" he were willing to address this BPD stuff, then our relationship would stand a chance. (is that a false hope?). i know those first amazing months with a BPD person can be like a "mirage"... it did feel like the most amazingly special time of my entire life tho. so it's hard to forget that time, hard to just say "oh it was just the symptom of a condition that requires treatment". for me, those were the most beautiful 18 months of my life. it's hard to "give up" on that, even if the last 6 months have been harrowing, fraught, like walking on egg-shells, painful, confusing, frustrating, and turning in endless circles. ugh. i'm scared to check my email now, to see if he's replied. i expect there'll just be scorn or derision or fake laughter or something similarly bizarre and un-useful.

oh, whoops, sorry . i just realised this should've gone in the "saving a relationship in or near breakup" section. this was my first post, so i didn't realise there was a breakup section

Something doesn't seem right here. 18 months of perfection is  LOONG time for someone with a mental illness to "fake it". BPD people have always been BPD. They don't catch it or get it like you get PTSD. Something very traumatic has to cause it and usually something very early in childhood. People with BPD cycle thorugh feelings of intense love and feelings early in the relationship. They cling on like their life depended on it and treat you like the most amazing person. This part last a few months. At most maybe 6 or 8 months until the infatuation wares off. Then they start to see fault in you and the fact that you are not perfect triggers very very intense emotions in them causing them to go nuts basically. They can have extreme anger rages, extreme depression, give you silent treatment, cheat on you, emotionally or physically abuse you, hurt themselves, threaten suicide etc... .Have you noticed any of these things in your relationship?

What specifically makes you think he has BPD?

hi. thanks for your thoughts. we're in a long distance relationship - so the 18 months doesn't surprise me at all. specifically the last 6 months have been the time where we've spent more time together and it's become fraught . some of the things you've listed make me think of BPD, plus some others too. some are:. start to see fault in you and the fact that you are not perfect triggers very very intense emotions in them causing them to go nuts basically. They can have extreme tantrums, extreme depression, give you silent treatment, emotionally  abuse you, behave recklessly.

given how draining our situation is at the moment and given it's been a difficult day, i probably can't explain it better than that at the moment. i'm exhausted and want to make some peace with the situation (probably BPD). i realise i will need to look more closely at whether he has BPD or something similar, in the days and weeks ahead. i don't think i have the strength to put it into words well today.

If you have the ability ti have a closer look at his previous interactions with people it will show up red flags. A history of being close to people then falling out with dramatic tales of how abandoned/bullied they were. Family members who just can't be bothered with him any more. Tales of being the black sheep, unfair workplace dismissal etc.

As previously mentioned BPD will have been present a long while, except this face of it has only just come to the surface at this stage in your RS with him. It would have surfaced in the past with other people. The over the top considerate face is often a pwBPD trying to role play who they would like to be, taking their cues off you. Unfortunately this does not come from a core set of values or sense of self, so it is not self perpetuating and so it runs out of momentum.

It also makes them feel like a failure (again) so they go into defensive / denial / delusional mode, and projection of blame onto you. Especially when they realize you are just a normal person and not the "goddess" they wanted you to be.

Ergo the collapse of the relationship is your fault, you were meant to be their savior.

When a pwBPD does come to accept the disorder it rarely happens when you bring it up, that is likely to be met with automatic denial, it may sink in eventually, but it is rarely a light bulb moment switched on by their partner.  Acceptance can also bring with it its own can of worms.

Working on why you were drawn to this person in the first place is a good place to start. Did you perceive they were providing for you what you had missing for yourself?  pwBPD are needy and need rescuers, but they are also good at role playing the provider too. Often they appeal to our own need to be rescued or have our needs filled. Hence "rebounders"  are vulnerable to the charms of pwBPD in their time of frailty

i'm reading so many posts here thinking "yup, yup, yup, uh huh, yes, yup, yup, uh huh". but i'm also totally exhausted. these past 6 months have been harrowing - total rollercoaster. before, i could do no wrong. now i can do nothing right. for now, i guess i'll just read posts here to make some peace with this entire issue. and then i guess i'll give up on the relationship. i don't know. is it worth one last try, now that i know(?) what's going on with him? previously i was just guessing, guessing, guessing, guessing and thinking wow he's insane. it was unbearable. maybe knowing it's BPD will give me the strength i need and the understanding i need, to deal with it better? right now i just feel a lot of exhaustion and some relief, to know (in all probability) what's going on. it's all starting to make sense and to fall into place. thankfully, i don't feel angry about it, now that i can understand it. and i do still care about him. i'm someone who's quite good at setting safe, good, sensible boundaries. so i have not let him treat me particularly badly so far. (as soon as it started, i immediately started putting up boundaries). (those boundaries weren't respected, so i reinforced them). (i have experience working with traumatised street dogs (rescue dogs) so i have some valuable experience in how to set safe, basic, healthy, good boundaries and how to respond when they are ignored/ crossed). so i don't have a long list of grievances of terrible stuff my partner has done in our relationship, because i've been putting really good boundaries in place. but these past 6 months have been him trying to trample across all of my boundaries and having tantrums about "boundaries mean you don't truly love me". i've let him have his tantrums and just re-stated that my boundaries are there and that i think they are healthy and justified and that i love him and care about him and that i'd like to find a constructive way of working with the issues that have come up. that is what the past 6 months have been about. and he's reacted insanely to every healthy boundary i've asserted and reasserted. which is why i've started wondering whether he's nuts these past 6 months. so thankfully (thanks to good boundaries) i'm not at a stage in the relationship where i think he's the enemy or where i've allowed him to have the power to hurt me really deeply. (i think it's natural that there's some hurt in relationships - without some hurt, surely our hearts wouldn't be truly in the relationship). (but i've not let him hurt me to the point where it feels unsafe or toxic). when it has started feeling toxic, i have said that unless we fix it and make it non-toxic, i'm leaving the relationship. this was the point i was at again, this week. so maybe there is some "hope" yet. i certainly think he's a lovely person - he has so many beautiful traits and he's incredibly sweet and intelligent and caring. (sometimes. sigh). but i guess that's okay - we all have great traits and non-great ones. maybe the reason he's chosen me as a partner is because he knows i'm strong enough to work with and help traumatised street dogs. and so he senses i'm strong enough to work with and help him, without it damaging me and without it making me resent him. ?

hi waverider. ooh yes, your post resonates totally : ). yup to all of what you wrote. yup, yup, yup . specifically i'll address the last question. i am someone who is drawn to "underdogs" in life. always have been and possibly always will be. if you read what i just wrote about about working with street dogs, i think i'm drawn to that in a non-toxic way tho. yes, he does both the very very needy thing and also the amazing provider thing. when i met him, i was rebounding from a relationship that had ended (amicably) after 15 years. also, i was in my mid-life non-crisis phase. i am loving my mid-life phase! : ). i don't know why people call it a crisis, other than it feels like the first half of your life is now behind you and something entirely new and exciting and unknown is going to open up and be the 2nd half of your life. so i was in a situation where i was feeling incredibly open and curious and wanting to talk to people who were open emotionally and vivid and i think that's what drew me to him. (also, i do LIKE him - he's a great person, except for this BPD stuff that's been driving me nuts recently).

i also realise that me saying to him "do you think you maybe have BPD?" isn't going to lead to him saying "wow yes, you are right!". : ). i realise it will lead to more defensiveness on his part. but then i thought about how weird it would be to be 95% sure that's what he has and to not mention it!

we all have strengths and weaknesses, good points and bad points. Normally though these are spread out around a balanced center. The lack of a balanced center with pwBPD means you can get either a full whack of good then a big slab of bad. These extremes make it very difficult to hold a consistent relationship together, as the swings are far too extreme for most people, without a full understanding and the tools to deal with it, it can cause a relationship to bog down or fail altogether in the lows.

If you feel you have the understanding and strength to deal with this you will be able to get it out of its present trough, but it will continually to rollercoaster in and out of it. It will never be the ideal it was, or you thought it could be, and you will become a "carer" whether you like it or not.

Even if you could wave a wand and eliminate BPD a pwBPD has lived a lifetime of it, they have no bank of "normal" experiences to fall back on, and it is our experiences that make us who we are. So they will have huge gaps and scars.

Changing personalities is like learning a new language. Understanding>fluency> instinctively thinking in it, especially undrer stress> loosing your old accent, are long and arduous steps, it is the same with BPD "recovery"

A lot depends on what you ultimately want for your future going forward

i guess what i would need to work out is what "benefit" i would be getting from this relationship, if i choose to continue it. i don't want to be his social worker/ therapist. it's okay for me to have that role when i'm working with street dogs. it would be okay for me to have that role if i was working professionally with BPD people. but if i'm having a romantic relationship, i don't want to have the role of the therapist. : P. i do think that life knocks us all around pretty hard and we all are left with bruises or scars or damage. so helping each other in a relationship, with the bruises and scars life has left us with, is okay. i guess i'll need to work out if we can get some kind of even relationship happening, where we are both supporting each other kind of equally. i don't mind if i support him a bit more. but i don't want to be in a carer/ therapist role. i want a real relationship between equals who like and love each other genuinely and who are not primarily together because of need(iness). so i guess i will have to evaluate whether/ how that is possible. . right now, i'm just relieved to (probably) know what's going on and to know that i could deal with it in a helpful, supportive manner. step 2 will be working out how to make it a genuine relationship between equal partners, one of whom happens to struggle with BPD issues

Not unheard of. My BPDw went just about this amount of time before she dysregulated for the first time with me.
I came to find out that there have been triggers in her life (events and people) that tend to set off her dysregulation, and she can go for stretches of time where she's very high functioning if those triggers aren't present.

Unfortunately, as happens in many BPD r/s, I have now become a trigger myself and that's when discard for partners of pwBPD tends to happen. They then move onto a new idealization (person, job, location, ideology, spiritualism, etc.), discard the old r/s (which is now a trigger, as it reminds them of their dysfunction and how their r/s always turn out), and never have to deal with their lifelong issues.

hi waverider. thanks for your thoughts. again, i agree totally. i guess only time will tell. i do like the challenge of working with traumatised street dogs - it's beautiful to see them blossom and grow - and yup, they retain most of their demented habits and never become particularly stable personalities. i will give this careful thought and will continue to set healthy, safe boundaries for myself, cos i know i'm of no use to anyone else unless i'm feeling kinda okay myself. i think i'll need some weeks to get my mind around this stuff and to see what kind of a difference knowing it's (probably) BPD is, makes. again: right now i'm just so relieved to have an explanation for the bizarrrrrrre last few months. they were so weird that i wasn't just questioning his sanity - he was so intense in his behaviour and his statements that occasionally i'd start wondering whether i was completely nuts : ). so right now i just feel total relief to have some kind of "road map" and not to be stuck in a swamp up to my knees, wondering how the heck i'd got stuck there and where to now?

. yeah - i wonder if that's what i'm turning into too. i've spent 6 months setting healthy boundaries and calling him on all his bizarre behaviour... he hates having it pointed out to him. and i don't think he likes that i've now been a "witness" to 6 months of bizarre and crap behaviour. so even if i did find a way to work with his BPD, i kind of suspect he's going to turn it into a thing of "if you say/ think i have BPD then you're horrible and you're no longer the woman of my dreams". sigh.

Mmm, well it's almost midnight here and i have a long day tomorrow, so i'm going to try and get some sleep. thank you soo much for this site and your thoughtful comments so far. i'd love to be able to come here for support during the next few weeks, which will be the most challenging and will probably be a make-or-break situation. as i'm someone who loves learning tho and who finds human nature and behaviour and psychology immensely interesting, i look forward to learning heaps and to some very interesting insights. night : ).

oh and p.s. re your Q, waverider, about why i chose this partner... i must say the initial idealization phase is incredibly flattering and lovely! haha. oh dear. to have someone incessantly tell you you're the most amazing thing to have ever happened to them and that they think you're perfect... sigh. yup, i'll admit i fell for that  . : ). now that i know it's a BPD idealization phase - i'll know it, the next time it happens and i will be on my guard, haha. but seeing as it was the first time i'd had that happen to me, i was wholly unprepared for it and was totally floored and swept off my feet. it was an incredibly romantic time. like the most romantic film i've ever seen, and then some. : )

This is the kicker when you end up living with a pwBPD, you dont get to "knock off work" go home and unwind. It's the lack of time and place, or respite that eventually brings you down. It feels like life sabotaging and your own life can become dysfunctional and handicapped by association. So if your LDR moves to cohabitation it ups the anti entirely.

Hence you have to think of the long term before you slip into default mode.

mid life crisis= browsing postcards and believing the idyllic images they portray.

The tropical island portrayed on the card from BPDland shows a tropical island, sun and promise, and servants providing for your every whim. It doesn't show the poverty and garbage in the backstreets, nor does it add a warning about the regular cyclones and tsunamis that the region is prone too. You discover these things after you relocate there

To successfully navigate this part of your life you take holidays rather than relocate your life.

How did your 15 year r/s end "amicably", during midlife? What were the reasons it ended, was it amicable and mutual from day one (or did one person decide to end it, then the other one got on board), etc.

I think glossing over your 15 year r/s that ended in midlife while posting a ton of info very quickly about your current 2 year r/s, is kind of interesting.

mmm can't sleep. drat. not sure about the mid-life metaphor. : ). i know my mid-life journey certainly got massively distracted and made topsy-turvy by this new relationship. . i didn't intend my mid-life shifts and growth to lead me to BPD land : ). i happened to meet a guy with BPD, during my mid-life phase . i'll be having a good long hard think about this BPD island. cos yup, there's lots of garbage and pollution and shanty towns and stuff. i'm not sure i want the 2nd half of my life to be about BPD stuff! : ). umm, well, re previous relationship ending - i dunno if i'm meant to tell my whole life history here. i think it's okay to gloss over some things, especially if they're not the main issue? (to partly answer your question, the 15 year relationship kind of fizzled out, it wasn't an amicable split to start with, it was more like a car breaking down, over time more and more stuff started breaking down and then we managed to call it quits without becoming mean about it). sorry if i've posted "a ton of info" about this current relationship. given i only realised the BPD thing today, i need to get this stuff sorted in my head, so i've just blurted it out as a way of processing it. i've been thinking bout this (BPD) relationship while not-managing-to-drift-off-to-sleep and i still feel affection for him, but i think what i've lost these past 6 months is the feeling of respect. at the moment, i can't respect him. and right now, i don't know how to get that back, or if i even can. and i don't think i can have a relationship without respect. i've watched him behave appallingly and not apologise for it or even realise what he'd done, for months now. it's left the respect just draining out of the relationship, which feels pretty crap.

ugh. still can't sleep. my alarm clock goes off in 3.5 hours from now. ugh ugh ugh. sorry for blurting so much today - i'm a blurter, when i process stuff : /. now that the relief over working out this BPD stuff is starting to subside a bit, i think i just want this relationship to be over. maybe i should go and post in a section for "how to split up with someone who has BPD". cos when i'm in the relationship (nowdays) i do "everything" wrong. when i go to end the relationship i suddenly get asked "but why?" and told i'm wonderful and that i shouldn't leave. this back and forth is really messing with my head. i realise i won't manage to get an amicable split happening with a BPD person. but i can't even manage to get a mutual split happening. we can't even ing agree on whether to end this relationship or not. i've never been in that situation before. either a split has been mutual (both parties want the relationship to end). or it's been one person wanting it to end and the other person accepting that. in this current relationship, everything i've said or considered to be important has been ignored for the past 6 months. even as i've been trying to split up from him, he's basically ignored my attempts. just plain IGNORED them. how does that work? : ). in the past, he's done the typical BPD thing of totally freaking out cos of abandonment fears. but these past weeks, his modus operandi has been to pretend that i'm simply not splitting up with him. when i say that we need to stop this, it's getting toxic, he's pretended that i'm "just in a bad mood" and am making some kind of childish threats. (yeah, i realise that there's plenty of people who make those kind of childish threats). but i've genuinely been trying to break up with him. and he just pretends it hasn't happened. which is kind of driving me nuts. and i'm not getting any closure on it. . i think i need to stop hoping we'll call a mutual end to this relationship. i need to end it. and if he wants to pretend that hasn't happened, that's his prerogative and it's inside his head, but that's none of my business anymore

I think the 15 year relationship is playing a huge part in this, and can answer a lot of your questions about your current situation.

Rhetoric like 'mid-life journey', LTR that 'fizzle out', 'break down like a car', and saying that the split was amicable when you're saying it really wasn't, sound like you don't want to look back to see how you wound up here.

And in the time it took me to type this, you've already posted that you're going to end your r/s.

it's like he's a little kid. first he was clinging to me and saying you're wonderful you're wonderful. the past 6 months have been tantrums and lashing out. but when i go to leave, suddenly the little kid starts clinging again, saying "don't go". how do you split up with a kid?

hi northface, oh, i totally admit i'm in a muddled state... i've had an awful 6 months, been trying to salvage/ end/ salvage/ end this relationship to no avail. currently i just want to walk away from it. and looking back at the past 6 months and the 18 months before it, i've realised that BPD is the only thing that explains to me what's gone on. i'm totally emotionally muddled about this. and yup, i have looked at my 15 year relationship and will do so again in the future. but right now, i'm struggling with this stuff. and yeah, i get that everything is connected. but if you're asking for reasons why i got into the current relationship, my childhood/ youth has waaaay more to do with that than my last relationship. anyway, i understand your advice and will process it as well as i am able. and will continue blurting muddled stuff (for as long as i'm allowed) about the pain of having been in a BPD relationship and now watching it end

There is no amiable break up in BPD land. They are used to rash reversible decisions, that is how they operate. You need space to think about this rather being reactionary, your decisions here have just swung all over in a matter of hours late at night.

Take space think it through decide what you want to do in the cold light of day. Think about it a few more days and see how it sits with you. if you want to call it a day, disengage yourself and any commitments, belongings you need to return etc. Then flat out say it and leave. There is no easing out.

Muck will fly and all cooperation will cease. It is a matter of tidying your affairs to avoid collateral damage.

Good luck with whatever you choose. if you make a choice and go back on it then that will set a precedent of disbelief

crikey. long day (on just 2 hours of sleep). i heard back (via email) from my partner/ soon-to-be-ex and as expected he wasn't open re my question whether he'd considered he might have BPD - tho i was surpised that he wasn't particularly angry or upset about my having asked. (?). we've decided to have a few days apart and not talk again til next week (monday) cos at the moment, we're just fighting, going round in circles. i'm not sure how that will go - he seems to still be in total denial that we have issues or are about to break up, which is bizarre, but hey. things have been bizarre for months, so what's new. i'm going to use the next few days of calm to think about things and to work out a position i can gently-but-firmly assert on Monday. i had a big cathartic cry today and feel more peaceful about the whole thing. i don't feel as angry with him anymore and my expectations are becoming more sober. thank you for the excellent support here - such great information and communication - and the space to think about BPD issues. it's good to have a calm, sane space here, while BPD relationship stuff twists your brain/ sense of reality. thanks.

in another thread on this board, i read a perfect description of some BPD behaviour i've been mulling over a lot today. i'll copy and paste the quote and my comments here (hoping that's okay). Quote by Meili on November 02, 2016. "As we know, feelings = fact. We'll never be able to change what they consider fact. My friend was explaining that she can say that the grass is purple and believe that the grass is purple, but when faced with undeniable evidence that the grass is green, she'll apologize and admit her mistake but still believe that the grass is purple. Once it's a fact to her, it's a fact forever more no matter what. Because of that, debating the color of the grass is pointless. Her SO just has to accept that she sees that the grass is purple. He cannot contradict her because that would be telling her that what she believes is wrong and therefore she's wrong/bad. He can only work with the fact that she sees the grass as purple. He doesn't have to internalize it and believe it himself though. It doesn't have to change a thing about him." . . thank you for wording the grass-is-purple stuff so well. this is one of the things that has upset me MASSIVELY in the past 6 months with my partner. after the idealization phase, all sorts of BPD behaviour started, including the "my feelings = FACTS" thing, which really freaked me out. i was having the-grass-is-purple stuff yelled at me in his tantrums with the ultimatum that i either "hear" and "validate" that the grass IS purple, or i'm the worst person on the face of the planet and the worst partner imaginable (ie. being expected to validate the FACT - validating the feeling was "not enough". not realising at the time that it was BPD stuff, those situations shook me to the core. i wondered if he was just plain insane. i'm only now starting to understand the BPD dynamic of feelings = FACTS. thank you for wording it so clearly and so well...

Its part of Radical Acceptance, that is just accepting what you cant change, and what ultimately doesn't have a negative impact on you simply by being so... eg it doesn't really matter to you if they think grass is purple. Its only the arguing about it that causes stress.

Take a read HERE (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0)

i'm on my way to work, so i'll only write a brief reply and add more later. i agree that whether grass is purple is kinda academic, if you have a very open mind : ). what i found really challenging (not knowing it was BPD at the time) was when the feelings = FACTS thing was not something as neutral as grass-is-purple. but was me inadvertantly doing something tiny. and him deciding that was me hurting him MASSIVELY AND ON PURPOSE. and there would be meltdowns and tantrums where i'd be given an ultimatum of either i ADMIT that i hurt him massively on purpose or i'm the worst person on the planet for "not even admitting it". (i mean, either way that has me being a horrible person right? i mean, if i'm someone who would intentionally massively hurt their partner - that'd make me a horrific person. and one that he shouldn't want to be together with, given how toxic that would make me). but again, that's looking at it through the "logic" lense. i inadvertantly did something tiny, it caused him massive pain, he expressed his feelings in a feelings=FACTS way and wanted me to "make things better" by validating not just his feelings but also the "FACTS". in retrospect, it's a pattern that's easy to understand. at the time i felt like he was either going insane or trying to drive me nuts.

. ooh, thank you for the link - it looks excellent - i will read in detail later today. i'm still doing lots of processing, getting to grips with this BPD stuff, but making good progress. the real test will be how things progress as of monday when SO and i talk (we're on a gotta-stop-fighting-break til then). thank you so much for a calm, great space (with intelligent, well-observed, helpful information) in which to process this stuff

Focus back on wacky colored grass.  Really focus on realizing this is another persons thought process. 

Odd grass and you being a horrible person are the same type of thought.

Someone else's thought... .

You have a choice to take that thinking on board in your life... .or leave that thinking to them.

They also have a choice.

Perhaps something to think about:  How does your life change if person X believes you are a horrible person or if person X thinks you walk on water?  How does this change how you see yourself?

You are on the right track here... .

FF

: ). yup, i totally agree. it's a great opportunity for personal growth and insight and learning! . at the same time tho, it's also a question of "do i want person x to by my partner, or part of my inner circle?". it doesn't matter to me (much) if some arbitrary person thinks grass is purple/ i'm horrible/ i'm fantastic. but it does kind of matter to me, what my partner thinks. . i realise that one some levels, it shouldn't matter to me what my partner thinks! : ). but then, given that i choose my partner, wouldn't i choose a partner who thinks stuff that i kinda agree with/ like/ respect? i mean, i can radically accept that my (soon-to-be-ex?)partner (let's call him chris) thinks the grass is purple/ i'm horrible/ i'm fantastic. i can accept that chris has BPD and thinks these things. but given that he does think these things, i'm not sure i want him to be my partner. does that make sense?

Yes... .your train of thought makes sense.


But... .


It is likely more useful to focus on how they behave.

Why?  In the end... .will you ever really know what they think?  Really?

FF

hahahaha - true : ). as my pwBPD and i were fighting horribly these past few weeks, i remember saying that if we want to turn this around and make it something good, we're both going to have to let go of our previous assumptions and expectations of "what a relationship is/ how a relationship works" and agree on some new definition, that we come up with together. so yeah, if i choose that i want to make this relationship work, i'm going to have to let go of soo much of what i previously assumed about relationships. maybe letting go of the idea that i (kinda) know what my partner thinks about some things is one of the things i need to let go of : ). feels loopy to me, but in a fun way. .

With pwBPD... .you are likely being told what they really think and feel.  The odd part to us is they Chang very quickly and many times don't remember how they used to feel.  Sometimes claiming they never felt how they said they felt.


It can be mind boggling. 

Have you noticed this pattern?

FF

Compulsive projection of Intent is a real issue. ie its not what you say or do, but the intent they insist you assigned to those words/actions.

"You must think I am XYZ to say that"... That was their thought not yours, but they are assigning (projecting) that thought as being yours. Employing defective mind reading skills using their own dysfunctional points of reference.

It is a compulsive action because they "have to" determine a motive behind things, taking things at face value is hard to do.

. well... i think that BPD is all about the emotional level. i think it's very little about a thinking/ logical level. so my BPD partner will say stuff cos that's what he feels in that minute. and if he feels differently 2 minutes later, he will say that stuff. and if it's the opposite of how he felt 2 mins earlier, then yup, what he says will totally contradict what he said 2 mins ago. . the thing is that feelings are not consistent. they flip-flop and ricochet all over the place. feelings are transient and fleeting and a dime a dozen. thoughts, on the other hand, are more consistent. we don't change our thoughts about things radically from one minute to another. i think the confusion is that feelings=FACTS thing that BPD people do. instead of expressing their "feeling", they voice it as a "fact" or as their "thoughts". this is very confusing to an onlooker. because we are all aware that thoughts do not change that quickly . it's hard to remind yourself that the "facts" and "thoughts" being expressed are actually feelings - which may change within the space of 30 seconds

Thats lack of a core sense to give those thoughts a structure or point of reference. So they bounce around like so many independent reactions without any constancy.

It shows in an inability weigh up pros and cons in parallel before making decisions. Rather they think of them in series and make conclusions after each individual thought, without taking on board the previous thoughts on the same subject

yeah. : ). thank you so much for your calm, intelligent, gentle insights. just as the saying "it takes a village to raise a child" goes... i think it takes a village to cope with a BPD person well and to maintain healthy dynamics for both the BPD and the non . thanks for being part of my village!

so. this is Day 4 of my "ohhh it's BPD" journey. it's saturday and on monday i'll be talking to my BPD (ex?) partner chris again. we're currently having a few days of NC, cos the fighting has been so crap/ confused/ circular recently. i've had a lot of time to think during these days, which has been great. now that i've (partly) got my head around this BPD stuff, i kind of look forward to talking to him on monday, because i know it won't be crazy-confusing BPD fighting now. now that i know what is going on, i can either a) approach it calmly and constructively or b) decline to engage in BPD stuff and feel okay because i know it's not personal and that's it's "just BPD" and he's not actually completely bonkers. so i feel a big sense of relief about that. and i'm kind of looking forward to seeing how he and i can work on these BPD things. (i say kind of, cos it's just been too many eggshells recently - i'm exhausted and drained). which is why i'm also wary/ anxious about talking to him on monday. it's going to be so much (emotional) work. and there'll be soo much BPD stuff to deal with. and i'll have to stay grounded and remind myself not to take it personally. and i'm going to need a lot of patience. cos 80% of what he and i talk about in the days ahead will be about his needs and his emotions and his stuff. i'll need to make do with 20% for my stuff for now and then increase that share over time, once the most important groundwork has been done. any ideas/ suggestions on how to stay grounded when the BPD stuff starts up again on monday would be much appreciated : ). (obviously sharing here and having a BPD-support village to be a member of is a fantastic way of staying grounded). over time, i think i'll be okay with this. but at the moment i feel emotionally fragile due to the harrowing last 6 months, which have left me feeling vulnerable, raw, apprehensive, etc.

Dont try to address everything at once, or attempt to sound like a therapist.

You are listening with new ears rather than speaking with a new language.

ooh good point : ). thank you!

Another tip to stay grounded is to realize that you understand what it is... .AND IT ISN'T ABOUT YOU.

Think hard about Waverider's comment to listen with new ears. 

You are responsible for your understanding.  You are NOT responsible for your partners.

No need to explain or mention all this new insight that you have to your partner. 

Listen to you partner, make sure you understand.  If pestered for an immediate answer... .defer... .it's important for you to "think things through". 

Stay chill... .it's not about you.

FF

. beautiful  . thank you : )

Hi hmmmmm!
I'm reading your story and relating! Took me a while to work out it was BPD doing the crazy making. My BPD ex also had his first major meltdown over 18 months in, after being the man of my dreams for the initial phase.

The above quote by waverider is so key! No matter how hard I tried, and how much logic I presented, he was relentless in digging for a negative motive on my part. So true that they struggle with trusting and taking things at face value. It causes so much trouble if they can't get a diagnosis and work on that part of things.

... .that being said, it's your own special journey with its own individual outcome. Explore all options, feel your way through it, keep talking. It's a very unique thing that many friends and family will not truly understand unless they've been through it.
It's a strange and complicated beast, this BPD! Sounds like you have strength and good boundaries and a decent sense of self. Whatever you decide to do, stay true to that logic and sense of self, it sounds like you are. That's a good place to start when exploring your options:)

: ). hey zinnia. thank you so much for your kind thoughts and words. it's so good to be surrounded by people here, who understand.

as monday is fast approaching. (the day BPD partner and i decided to talk, after a few days of NC to calm the fighting)... i want to look back on the (BPD)-relationship-so-far. i've already emailed my contribution to tomorrow's talk to my partner. (he won't read it til tomorrow, and i wanted to write calmly and gently and not send a clumsy email from work, when i'll be distracted). as i prepare myself for his response, i want to look back on the relationship through a BPD lense. (looking at it from my perspective is only giving me half the answers). so, BPD partner (chris) and i met as we were both leaving long-term relationships. however, neither of us was looking for a new relationship. i know chris from high school (25 years ago) tho we weren't close back then. it was a coincidence that we got in touch and we started out as acquaintances and then friends, really enjoying the friendship and how much we had in common. the friendship grew into love and we had an incredibly sweet courtship phase and gently fell in love in the sweetest way i've ever been in love. (but y'all know the BPD idealization phase, so that's no news to anyone here). chris had an incredibly challenging up-bringing tho he always says he's fine and that other people had it a lot worse - which i partly admire in him and partly think he's avoiding/ not addressing his childhood trauma, which is a concern. i think chris has mild BPD btw, and he's also very high-functioning. i mention the mild thing, because his first serious relationship after high school was with a massively BPD girl, who did every BPD behaviour imaginable including cheating on him with his best friend, which massively damaged his trust in relationships (to this day). to compensate, he married a girl who i would describe as having a mild form of aspergers / autism maybe? she's very bland and non-threatening and unemotional and it seems that's what he needed to get by. they have two children (10 and 12). they've separated but are still "co-habiting" in different buildings on a large farm, for the kids. i totally approve of him doing that, for the kids. he and i are both children-of-divorce ourselves, so we both know how important it is to look after the kids. i'm also not jealous re his ex, so i don't mind the living arrangement. chris and i have a long distance relationship for lots of reasons - jobs, finances, his kids etc and it will be a couple of years yet, before we're able to move together (if that's how this relationship ends up progressing, now that all this BPD stuff has gone on). chris knows he has issues, but his stance is that "everyone has issues" (very true!) and hence he doesn't need to do therapy etc (not so true). his stance is that if only i would be the perfect partner for him then everything would be fiiiiiiiiine and perfect (and then he'd never have any problems or issues ever again and hence also never need to do therapy). errrr... sure.     : ). he's a very sweet and gentle soul and i love him very much. however, the past 6 months have seen his BPD behaviour getting more weird, more intense, more demanding, more unhealthy, more abusive. during those six months i was really freaked out by the total and utter lack of self-awareness he has about these things and how he manages to JUSTIFY every single bit of it. having said that, i must point out the following:. during the past 6 months of weird BPD stuff, i had NOO idea what was going on. so i kept saying to him "what the heck? what the heck? what the heck are you DOING?". haha. i was very vocal and critical about "what on EARTH are these bizarre and unhealthy behaviours that you are doing?". not the "best" approach : ). but i didn't know any better - i had noo idea at the time that it was BPD. and given we'd tumbled straight out of the idealization phase into the BPD weirdness, i really was totally disoriented and wondering what on EARTH was going on. so my behaviour of criticising him for this BPD weirdness has not exactly been a condusive atmosphere in which he could admit/ face/ reflect on his issues/ problems/ behaviours. i can understand that he's been defensive and has said that he's "fine" and that his behaviour is "fine" and that i should quit bugging him. however... i truly do wonder whether there will be much change in that, now that i'm being more gentle and aware about the BPD stuff, but am still settling gentle-but-firm boundaries. i do think that the most likely outcome is that he'll now split me into black and i'll be the big disappointment who didn't love him as he deserves to be loved. i know he put a lot of hope into this relationship. and i know he thinks that loving me in a BPD way is "fine" and "normal" and "healthy". and i know he's deeply disappointed that i don't agree with that. he has invested a lot of himself in our relationship - i know that. and i have done the same. i don't know whether his BPD is mild enough that patience, love, understanding and therapy can fix it enough to make this relationship healthy and viable. or whether his BPD is strong enought that he will be forced to save himself emotionally, which will involve discarding this relationship which has now become too challenging, difficult, upsetting for him. i've been careful all along, to set gentle, healthy, firm boundaries. because there were red flags, quite early on. i just didn't know what they were red flags for - i knew something was the matter - i didn't know it was BPD. i really care about him and i see how much he struggles and i admire him so much for how well he does - he's really a great person, except for the BPD stuff. ironically, the red flags early on gave me a strong sense that i might just be a security blanket for him for a while. at the time, i thought "maybe he's just rebounding from his failed marriage and just needs someone to be there for him for a while and to hold him and love him til he's regained his strength". i was aware of that and i made my peace with it - and i told him too. i said if it's part of my life journey to hold him and to love him during this part of his life journey, then it's an honour, cos he's such a beautiful person and i love him and he loved me genuinely too. so i know i can make peace with that - i've had people love me and help me and be there for me in my life, when i've needed it and i don't mind passing that on . at the end of my life, i'll look back on this gladly and will be happy to have loved him gently as best i could

so, as monday approaches, i need to stop seeing all of this (our relationship) through my logic/ thinking lense. i need to view it through the lense of emotion, so that i can understand where he is at. logic has nothing to do with this (for him). i feel like i'll be learning a new culture/ language. a culture and language based on emotion, with logic removed. i don't mind trying to learn that - it'll be an interesting growth experience and i love making my brain learn totally new stuff : ). it's going to be tricky tho! i know how challenging learning a new language and culture is and how long it takes and how much work it requires to get it even half right.

i know it took a lot of courage for him to reach out and trust me (even just as a security blanket). he's so scared of getting into a damaging relationship, that he had been struggling by on his own, in his wrecked safe-but-emotional-vacuum marriage, desparately hoping to find someone to connect to safely. i do wonder about his marriage - i realise his ex is even more deeply damaged than he is. but his BPD must have contributed to the damage in that marriage too. i wish i could see them interact! that would give me soo much more information. after this "ohhh it's BPD" epiphany - i really wonder who he is? did i really know him, so far? he's basically a kid right? he survived his childhood trauma as best he could. got into a very damaging relationship with an extremely BPD girl. . decided to opt for the safety of someone really bland who also was seeking the safety of "let's just have our own little family with kids and play happy families and everything will be okay". experienced the horror of his marriage failing and becoming emotionally abusive, which will have worsened his BPD, with lots of dysregulation. he works professionally, very high-functioning and is very proud of the great work he does there. now his focus is on helping his kids grow up. tho he is so close to having a major nervous breakdown and so desparate to feel safe and stable, that he's said he would walk away from his kids, if only i could offer him the safety and stability he needs (i have declined that - i want him to look after his kids and i can't offer him an idealized, fairy-tale relationship). he's probably kind of at a crossroads. he's been close to breaking down for the couple of years before he and i met, as his marriage was failing ever more badly. the idealization phase of our relationship helped stabilise him - he was doing well during that time. the past 6 months he's been dysregulating and having melt-downs, tantrums, sobbing fits... before i realised that it was BPD, i did think he was having nervous breakdowns. (tho they seemed like rather weird nervous breakdowns, to me). maybe this'll be a chance for him. i'm the first person to have loved him gently and calmly and safely and to have set healthy boundaries. he's taking this as an opportunity to try and turn it into a fairytale thing, so he doesn't have to face any of his issues. (living like that is obviously not an option for me). so i'm hoping he'll instead use this as a growth opportunity and to start healing from his trauma and to slowly, gently move forward towards something more healthy. i can "understand" that all he wants to do is huddle in the safety of the security blanket that is our relationship and that he just desparately "wants everything to be okay". i really regret the inadvertant damage that's been done these past six months. me not knowing it was BPD had me reacting in non-supportive ways, which will have scared him and made him feel lonely and misunderstood and unloved.

so, i've sent the most gentle, caring, compassionate, understanding, supportive, calm, accepting email i was able to write, to my partner. it's 10 hours before i can realistically expect a reply. (he won't check his mails til he is at work and i wanted to write my mail today (sunday) so i wouldn't be writing a difficult, sensitive email during my work time). i did mention the BPD thing. i know, i know. don't mention the war! i mentioned it as gennnnnnnnntly as i could. and it may be unwise to have done it. but where i currently stand, i don't have the inner wisdom to find a way without mentioning it. maybe over time, i will be able to yield on this point and let it go. at this point, however, i need some sign of self-awareness, after the harrowing 6 months we've had. my partner has what i would say is mild BPD. i've certainly not experienced the absolute nightmares of abuse, cheating, insanity that many here have gone through with a BPD partner. i still found 6 months of "mild" BPD behaviour harrowing tho - cos i did not know what it was, so it totally freaked me out. self-awareness is really important to me in a partner, so i've risked gently mentioning the BPD thing, tho i've taken as much of Dr Xavier Amador's advice on board as I can and been as gentle and as non-confrontational about it, as i can muster at this point of our BPD journey:. https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy.

i brought home work to do over the weekend and i need to get it done. and it would be good to do it, to distract myself for the next 10 hours while i wait for an email reply. i don't know how to concentrate on work stuff tho, with all this BPD stuff going on. the work i have brought home is really complicated and i need to be really focussed and deal with about 3 or 4 levels of stuff that all needs to be brought together to inter-relate correctly. my brain, however, feels like a wad of chewing gum, that's been chewed for too long. : P

hmmmmm, your words about your brain being overworked ring true. I wish for the very best result for your email. I would call my ex also high functioning and very mild borderline also, but even so I was also freaked out by way she was melting. I also am in a long distance relationship. Last weekend, she called and was sobbing and in distress: she asked me to take her to the hospital because she was in such rough shape. I dropped everything and flew to where she lives. We went, but as we were walking to the emergency area, she said "don't touch me, I'll scream and slap you if you touch me." We got to the admitting area, and she immediately said she was in "abusive relationship" with me. The hospital staff told me to "step back," which is what I did. I could hear her saying she needed to escape me. She was admitted because she went through another panic attack at that moment, but that's the last time I saw her. She was out of the hospital the next day and ended our relationship via text and phone calls. She still leaves angry shouting messages saying that I am slandering the most loving, wonderful, brilliant, hardworking, patient man she has ever met. Unfortunately, I have never met this person, but I can tell she has split me black and him white. In hindsight, I know now that she is borderline.

Our relationship was always an incredibly tender one--never abusive, never angry. I am a very gentle person, so I am still lost as to what happened except to say that the disorder has taken over and that I'm done for now because I'm black and he is white.

hmmmmm, I know I wrote lots of detail, but I think I can see what you're going through. Because I did not go through some of the major trauma others write about (during the good years) and because things ended so swiftly I thought you might want to hear more from me. Your situation sounds rather similar.

Again, come what may, I wish you peace in all this difficulty.

thank you renard - yes, it's so good to know we're not in this alone. i can't believe she asked you to fly out to help her to get to a hospital and then told the hospital you were a threat to her! that is soo nuts it's almost funny, if it weren't so awful. don't worry - her behaviour is not because you've done anything negative. quite the reverse - you have been patient, kind, trustworthy, safe, supporting - which is why she feels safe enough to dysregulate with you. i know that's not the reward you were looking for, for your caring support, but that's how BPD works. it's a sign you supported her beautifully, not that you damaged her

still procrastinating doing my work tasks. just had a shower to help me feel fresh and motivated and have put on one of my partner's t-shirts. it's the first time i've been able to do that in about 2 months. because we have a long-distance relationship, we love sharing things like t-shirts, because it feels so close and intimate and cosy. these past 2 months, i have not been able to wear his t-shirts because i felt so unsafe and nothing felt right. it feels good to wear his t-shirt now. it feels peaceful and calm and i genuinely care for him, no matter how this turns out. if the relationship ends, either because we find we're not up to the challenge, or because he ends it because he paints me black in a BPD mentality, i will be there for him as a supportive friend, if he wants (tho in a BPD mindset i think it's unlikely he would want that). going to do some housework to get my brain focussing on stuff and then try and sit down with all my work papers.

hmmmmm, thanks for writing. I really get the long distance thing and clothing.

I am new at this site and just wrote a really lengthy message to you, but I bungled the preview versus post versus back arrow and lost it.

hmmmmm, it looks as though my lengthy post to you is actually lost because of my misnavigation.

ahhhh poop  . : P. i know the feeling well - lost posts, lost emails, just before sending. aaaarrrrgh : )

I don't think I can quite reconstruct what I wrote, but here's a sketch. I think I will never hear from my ex again. Her personality is so strong that when she splits, she splits. The guy who I will call S is now her new attachment. Crazily enough, she asked me on the phone just before I flew to see and help her whether I could help her love S. When I tried to sort all that with her--by ultimately saying that it would be best for her to keep things with S professional (he's a colleague of hers) she accused me of being jealous. That accusation ultimately became an accusation that I am slandering S. That's why she says she has left me: I am slandering S.

I need to say that I have never even met S. Because we are in a long distance relationship, I needed to return to my home and work. Last Thursday, she called me. I did not pick up because I had received too many angry shouting calls. In the call she said she was back at the psyc ward, but not as a patient. She said she had evidence there and people there who would "swear" that I was slandering S. More, she had the police with her and they now had the evidence. She told me that unless I called and said "yes or no" that I was slandering S she would take things to court. She also said that "so many people were on the line" so I needed to call. I did not call. That voice message is both balm to me and poison to me. On the one hand, it reminds me that she is trapped in some way by the disorder, and on the other hand it breaks my heart: the woman speaking is using a different voice, and her brilliant beautiful mind is all distorted and lost.

hmmmmm, agreed: ___e!

. this link won't connect, when i click on it

re your previous post, it sounds like she's dysregulating so badly she's having psychotic symptoms (total loss of reality/ paranoia). i would wait to see what happens. anyone's brain can be affected by psychosis - it's part of the spectrum of human experience, so she's not alone with that and it's possible to recover from it adequately. but she obviously has more/ deeper issues than you realised. i don't know if you are religious at all and can pray for her, or if you are not religious, like me, maybe you can do the equivalent - hope/ wish for that the universe will have positive experiences, help, safety, caring, whatever she needs in life. whatever it is she needs from the universe, it seems she needs to keep looking for it. you gave her everything you had and i am certain that has helped her and she will look back on it one day, knowing in her heart of hearts that you cared for her when she was in a very fragile, hurt, vulnerable space and she couldn't accept the help you were offering. i hope one day, when she is feeling better, she will pass on the help you gave her to someone else who is in need. sometimes that is the only blessing we can all give one another - provide the help we are able to, as we all go through this bumpy, confusing, often painful life journey. i will join you in hoping/ wishing that she finds the peace she craves and that you find new avenues of joy and connection on your life journey too.

hmmmmm,

Thanks for writing. The link in my previous is something I don't understand, but it's probably because I wrote a euphemism for poop in reply to you (I think the forum filtered it out, even though it was spelled differently than another word for poop).

I'm not exactly religious but I have been praying to what I will call infinite love for my ex. You say good things. I am in need of such comfort and understanding that I have come to this forum, but I confess I am a bit uncomfortable putting all of my ex's behaviour into the category of the disorder. If so, then, all of her goodness and not so goodness are all woven together into the most wonderful person I have ever known. I believe her goodness will win out, so your words about prayer and hope for her are strong ones. I do want the best for her. It grieves me so deeply that we can't have life together, but I do want her to have life. She is so good and so wonderful, even in all that ails her.

I know some may say that I'm stuck in my idealization, but that's not exactly the case. I just don't think it befits me to go on and on about her imperfections because I love her too much to cast her as black. I think that's the difference between me (if I'm kind of sort of normal) and her. I can see and deal with all the ambiguity and greyness of life. She--right now--has things cast into strict categories of black and white. I still believe in her and all the goodness within her. She has called the best out of me and I want to stay that good man, even if she has turned away from me as a result of the disorder just now (and maybe for keeps).

She is definitely in some psychosis, and I have definitely hit the place where I am no longer her helper and lover and partner and man. It breaks me to say that, but I risked all and given all to her. Any decent person who does that has to accept the possibility that all can be lost as well. She deserves that from me: an acknowledgement that even though she always said she would love me forever no matter what, she has hit that which she cannot master just now. I know her to be masterful so I will let her turn all her strength to finding a way forward without me. I will keep praying always to infinite love for her.

that's beautiful : ). i agree that as humans, we are ALL flawed, so there's no point in turning someone with BPD into a monster or someone with just negative traits and no positive traits. sometimes, to recover from the pain in the relationship, we may need to focus on the negative traits for a while, because it helps us move on. i think what you write sounds great. i too feel like my BPD relationship has been a deep learning experience for me, how ever it turns out. in many ways it has made me wiser, stronger and better, too. i wonder where we will all be standing in a year's time from now? you, me, my (ex?) partner, your (ex?) partner. life is certainly not boring, is it?   : ). stay as strong and compassionate as you can be. and be compassionate with yourself when you don't live up to your high expectations. thanks for sharing your journey - it's really good to know we're not alone in this

i watched the video at the bottom of this page yesterday:. https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy. i thought it was a beautiful, strong story of someone helping their mentally ill brother. i think you might like it, because it is very compassionate

progress update: i have now completed the first (and simplest) task (of 4) work tasks i took home for the weekend. and it's now 7 hours to go til i can expect an email reply from my BPD (ex?)partner. sigh.

hmmmmm, thanks for writing again. Coping is such a funny thing. I have a briefcase of work I brought home, but I can't quite get to it just now. I am thinking of a long walk instead to allow myself to think and maybe to shed a tear or two.

I will watch the video, but I confess I need only a tear or two right now. I am worried if I see it that I will begin crying all that is in me and never quit. I made an appointment to see a counsellor tomorrow, so I am living in many ways for a safe and good place to talk out all that has happened and to find ways to heal.

. definitely do what feels right and safe : ). you sound like you have good instincts there. enjoy your walk!

hmmmmm,

I think the others who have written to me on this forum are giving me good counsel in what is a time of crisis. In effect, they say remember the disorder is the brutal fact and that I need to care for myself and ascribe all to the disorder and keep myself safe.

True enough, but what I wrote earlier to you is still the ultimate truth. I love my ex. I cannot stop doing so because she has the disorder. I may need to love her from afar, however. If that is the case, then, I need to do so. Again, she deserves that if my love is really love.

yeah, i think there's two schools of thought on this forum. 1) a relationship with someone with BPD is impossible. 2) a relationship with someone with BPD is possible. i assume people who predominantly think 1) have had experiences with people with very extreme BPD and/ or have had too little support/ coping skills to deal with the relationsip, or simply think it's unhealthy/ not useful to have a relationship with someone with BPD. i guess people who think 2) have had experiences with people with milder forms of BPD and have had support and/ or coping skills to help them deal with it. i doubt there is one "right" answer - it's a completely individual decision - and maybe whether we choose 1) or 2) we will never know if we made the right choice. if we choose no relationship, we will never be sure if it maybe would have been possible. if we choose a relationship, we will maybe always wonder whether it was a good idea/ worth it. have you read the "success stories" here? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=113820.0. i think it's important to both remember that success is possible while also making sure not to have "false hope" or to stay in patterns of abuse due to false hope. no easy answers!  .

ugh. five hours to go til i can expect a response. at the moment, i feel like i can't trust who he is anymore. the past 6 months have been too trust-damaging. i have no idea what kind of a response to expect. i have no idea whether i'll believe what he says

hmmmmm,

Back from a long walk that helped a bit. Thanks for your comments about the two schools of thought. I do think I land in the second category, but I fear I will never have a chance to find out now. I also agree that there are no easy answers.

The success stories are ones I'll read: thank for passing them along.

hmmmmm, hang in there: you will have more information one way or another soon. That's probably not much comfort but everything seems to unfold one small step at a time in such situations.

I hope you do not have that horrible knot in your belly that I feel so often now. May you breathe and find some peace.

oh, breathing. good reminder : ). i wasn't really doing that properly (very shallow, anxious breathing). i feel like today i will find out whether i am losing/ have lost my partner to BPD. i know that's putting too much emphasis on this one conversation. but i've spent the last six months wondering whether i had lost him. it's hard to feel genuinely patient for even longer. i'm worried he's going to continue to do the "nothing's wrong" thing. pretending that everything's fine and he has no problems and pretending that i must be weird to find (his BPD) stuff upsetting. i think if that happens, i can offer him a friendship, but i don't know if i can offer him a relationship. in a friendship, there's more boundaries, so i could protect myself better. in a relationship, there's fewer boundaries so i would need to be able to trust him more to take responsibility for his behaviour. now i'm starting to pray: please let his BPD be really mild. (4 hours til i can expect a reply)

so much trust has been damaged on both sides. he damaged my trust with his BPD behaviour. i damaged his trust with my poor reactions to his BPD behaviour. : (

hmmmmm, I send my prayers to you and to your partner. I feel something very similar. If my ex did contact me then I would need forgiveness for not having been better to her when she was in crisis, but I would need to forgive her for lies, for anger, for transferring her love (or needs or affection?) elsewhere.

a word: courage

hmmmmm, please do breathe and know that whatever happens today there will a tomorrow and a tomorrow and a tomorrow and many more: you will not be in the same you are now

hmmmmm, in the same place, that is (my bad on the missing word)

: ). yeah. it's funny how central he has become to my life (and heart). that makes it all seem so much more important than it objectively is.

hmmmmm,

It's funny: I was just thinking I never had any right to her love. It was given as some sort of amazing gift. Knowing I had no right to makes it bit easier to find my way through this anguish and torment. I lost a great gift, but it was never mine to own. It's hard to think that she no longer wants the gift I returned to her. That's the hardest part: I want to love her back, but know that door is simply not open any longer.

Even if her love is/was in some large part the disorder it was human. I think all human love is imperfect, and her imperfect care and affection and love were marvellous. I hope she does not harm others with them, but part of letting her go and part of wisdom lies with knowing that love and life are always filled with difficulty as well as such goodness. I sound a bit like I'm lost in platitudes and bromides but that's simply where I find myself.

. : )

i'm going round in stupid, anxious, painful circles. wondering whether this relationship was already over 6 months ago, when the BPD stuff started (and i just didn't realise it). or wondering whether this relationship was already over/ doomed the minute it began (and i just didn't realise it). all just attempts to prepare and protect myself for the pain that may be in today's discussion. i worry too, that he will actually say good things (not denying his issues, etc) and that i won't actually believe him. that i'll think it's the BPD talking and he's just saying "whatever" to get me to stop talking about this stuff. (3 hours to go)

hmmmmm, one thing for sure, these relationships are confusing. Can you find a way to keep breathing?

This forum has some good things to say about what to do and what not to do, perhaps there's some counsel there for you?

yeah : ). i've looked at the resources on this forum about "how to" approach those kind of conversations. what i'm not sure about is whether to proceed with this relationship - and in the end there are no resources out there to tell me that : ). at the moment, i'm feeling anxious/ scared as to what my (ex?)partner will write. that does not feel very healthy  : /

it's sweet of you to be concerned - but you truly don't need to be currently. i'm just tense/ emotional/ anxious about this dumb conversation. and i'm blurting my feelings of stress out here, as a way to get rid of them . : ). don't take my current ramblings too seriously - i'm bound to have several more loops of hope/ anxiety/ pessimism/ sadness before i get an email from him. sigh. gosh i hope that i look back on this one day and giggle. either with him or on my own. this stuff is so ridiculous! : )

hmmmmm, agreed: there are no resources that will make your decisions for you.

hmmmmm, again, agreed--it helps to blurt things out, even if they are loops within loops

Yes, this is what first gave me pause about continuing.  At first, what was so wonderful about our relationship for me was this feeling of safety.  When I could feel that I was starting to worry about how I was being perceived and how he would respond, rather than having confidence that that would be OK, I could feel it start to erode something important in me, and also, fundamentally change the nature of the relationship into one where he decided how we would be, and I hoped and accepted.  So different from how it began.  I would never have knowingly chosen such a dynamic.

Yes, had I known it was BPD, I might have been less hurt, could have let it roll off, it might have mattered less.  However, where are we, by the time we've managed to accord little or no significance to things our partners tell us about how they feel?  My need to respect him is at odds with that.  So confusing.

Also want to affirm something you wrote about about the likelihood that he will not end things or repudiate you but instead say good things that don't resolve your concerns.  I believe most people with BPD will continue with someone who is a strong attachment who is positive and kind and affirming toward them, so long as that person is willing to accept the basic dynamics that have been in play.

No point in speculating as you will soon have a clearer picture of how it's going to be just now.  Good luck 

@ renard      : )    thanks

. yup. it's turned into the kind of relationship i would never, ever, ever willingly go into. and i had next to no respect left for him, these past months. thank you : ).

. bizarrely, when i've tried to (gently) point this out to him, he's told me i'm silly/ ridiculous/ rude/ wrong/ weird

it's weird, isn't it - in a healthy relationship, the trust would grow over time, slowly become more. if something damages the trust, you try and fix it. in a BPD relationship, it often seems to decrease over time and fixing it seems impossible

you know, these past six months, he's not respected a single opinion i've said (unless it coincidentally happens to match his own opinion!). all my opinions have been either ignored, talked over the top of, been called ridiculous or (possibly worst of all) have been "tolerated" in a patronising way. grrrr

(do you want to know something funny?  my BPD partner hates forums. hates, hates, hates them. and he hates it twenty times more, if i post in them and a hundred times more if i post anything that has to do with our relationship, no matter how much i protect his and our privacy by not giving details). if he knew i was posting here, that would end the relationship immediately for him, i think.

because my partner and i are in a long-distance relationship, a lot of our talking is done via email. i just thought i'd go back and check to see if i could find an email about the FIRST BIG BPD MELTDOWN and, yup, i did. it all started in May. and it's gotten progressively more broken, from there on in.

so, during the idealization phase, was it a combination of him wearing his social BPD mask and being on a high from falling in love? once we got to know each other to the point where i could see behind his mask and once reality started kicking in after the idealization phase - is that when the BPD stuff started becoming visible and starting coming to the forefront? i'm guessing he both wanted and didn't want me to see behind his social mask. on the one hand, he must yearn for someone to see behind his mask and see him as he truly is. on the other hand he must be petrified of it, because he's so frail and broken behind that mask, that being see feels unbearable. ?

it's like the idealization phase was keeping some magic, protective bubble in place for him, which made everything be fine, made him feel wonderful and okay, made me seem perfect to him, made everything feel magical and special and safe and heavenly. the second it burst, cos reality crept it, it was a downward spiral from there on in

I think a profound yes to your last several comments.

My ex is rarely communicative about what is really going on under his impulsive actions and decisions and the surface rationalization for them.  But a few months back, when we were last in touch, he finally confided that a big problem for him with me is that he feels like he is, or will be seen as, a bad guy.  He needs (his word) to be far away from that.  I know his history, I also have been hurt by him, all is not perfect.  For me, that's all fine.  But either he can't believe that, or it's actually not OK with him.  I am no longer a mirror making him see himself as good -- even though, to me, he is good (though he has acted in hurtful ways that, to be good, he should at some point reckon with and try to stop -- a topic I have never yet broached with him).  He knows that I know the things that, to him, make him a bad person -- things he has done to others, but also, awful things done to him that make him feel terrible about himself.

He wants to be with someone who knows nothing of that.

Then, he would like me also to be around as the chronicler and the one who knows, without rejecting him.  So yes, he wants both things; I think you're right about that.  My ex's approach is to lodge those in two different people (which doesn't work for me).  But that ambivalence is probably huge for your person -- he wants you to know him but he doesn't believe it's possible or will work out, plus, it felt great for a time to be viewed in this pristine way, and the erosion of that feels like a loss.

That's my best interpretation based on a lot of watching and listening.

. : )  thanks. i think that describes it very well

right, i've not heard back from him yet - maybe he needs time to process stuff. i'm going to get some sleep, i have to get up in a few hours. thank you for a safe space in which to blurt and think in. thank you so much for the kind, caring support!  xxx. i hope to give it back in kind, asap  : )

Good for you for not leaping to conclusions.  My therapist says my ex needs 30 times more time to process each of these stages than I do ... .so your idea that he may need some space seems right.

And good for you for going to sleep.  It will all still be there tomorrow!  Good luck with your conversation.

Yep take a breather, nothing happens quickly in the big scheme of things. The more you focus on things the more likely you are to react impulsively.

The pause button is your friend

haha, thanks for that : ). (woke up 5 hours later, absolutely no response yet (silence) which did rattle me a bit). i'm going to try and convince myself it's a good sign - that he's actually taking time to think about this stuff, instead of just outright dismiss it. sigh. : ). thanks for the support! x

no response yet. (which is fine. i needed time to think too.). so i guess i'll give him a week, before i ask for an answer. how on earth am i going to distract myself for a whole week? : P .

. i love this  : )

. ooh. i just had an epiphany. you know how BPD's will confuse us, by talking "pure emotion" ? and we try and interact with them on a rational level and we find the things they say odd? WELL - maybe it's like 2 different languages! non language = rational, thoughts, some emotion sprinkled in. BPD language = pure emotion. so. when we talk to them with all our thinky, logical stuff, maybe they don't understand squat either! maybe to them, we sound like how the grown-ups used to sound in the charlie brown comics? rember those? the grown ups would just make this "maah mawwh maaaa merrr marrr meh maaaah maawh" noise while their mouths moved. maybe while we're talking and talking and talking, trying to explain stuff to them, all it translates to them as is either "i love you", "i don't love you", "things are okay", "things are not okay". so probly, we may as well just SHUT UP. hahahaha. cos you know, these past six months, whenever i'd gently try and start a constructive talk about something in our relationship that wasn't "quite right" (and given it was BPD craziness, there was a need to address some stuff!) all my BPD bf heard was "i don't like you" and "you're no good". (he told me this, over and over. everytime i'd try and talk to him, he'd yell in frustration "why do you keep CRITICISING me and telling me i'm crap?". when that was NOT what i had been saying at all. but in those six months of me trying to patiently, gently talk about this stuff, explaining it slowly and in detail, giving examples, admitting where i'd contributed to stuff or gotten confused... ALL he ever said (feeling genuinely sad) was "can you please stop criticising me and telling me i'm crap". so what if it's basically two languages. ? that means it's not just them saying weird stuff, we can't understand. that means it goes both ways. we say stuff that they think is tootally weird and completely confusing (and hurtful). no wonder they look so confused and frustrated and hurt and just want us to stop talking bout all that stuff!

I would go fishing :)

Whatever is your equivalent.

I wouldn't keep going round in circles with hypotheticals... See what happens next, before you tie yourself in knots

To a degree, eg if we actually use black and white decisions at times, yes they may arc up, but then they get over it quickly... That is just how they operate. It is only an issue to us because it is not how we operate. However if we try to over explain and try finding compromise it just confuses them as they dont talk the "grey" zone. Hence it backfires

We have to declutter our communications.

Your posting style is high volume, if you communicate with him with the same intensity, it could very well be overloading him.

. absolutely   ). if i tie myself in knots for a whole week, waiting in anticipation, i'll be exhausted and useless by the end of the week. better to do something constructive and fun. i have lots of work to do this week, so that will go some way to providing distraction. i'm going to blurt here LOTS (just warning everyone, haha, you're gonna get your ear chewed off by me this week, if you don't have anything more sensible to do than listen to me ramble). : ). but i want something additional, like fishing... i'm going to have to think of something. i reckon i'd like something nerdy. i find nerdy stuff really preoccupies my brain nicely. and maybe also something practical, for when i don't want to use my brain so much.). ooh : ). i've got some renovation projects waiting for attention at home - i loove renovating stuff - i'll think of one or two project to complete this week  : ). ooh, and i've been meaning to do a health-fast again - i love doing those, they are so cleansing, so i'll make it a priority to start that on wednesday (my day off). ummm, what else? i want one more activity that will keep my mind busy... i'm supposed to be designing a website for an environmental project. i spose i could do that, but that doesn't feel like "fun", haha. umm... ooh, i know! i've got a (creative) work project that i'm meant to start, but have been postponing cos of all this relationship/ BPD STUFF. i'll start on that : ). that's excellent! cos it means i'll be using the BPD-waiting time this week to catch up on creative work i've not been able to do cos of dealing with so much BPD stuff during the past few months. yay! : ). thanks for encouraging me to brainstorm stuff that'll be helpful to me, in getting through this week. x

. hehehe yup, i know  :). the thing is, he and i are both talkers and over-communicators - it's something we really enjoyed about each other. however, for him that only applies to outside things. he doesn't like/ isn't able to talk about relationship stuff, other than to give his highly subjective take on his inner world/ our relationship. i had assumed that cos he was great at talking bout soo many things, that would apply to our interpersonal stuff too, but that's not the case.

no reply from him today, so it's another 12 hours from now, til i can realistically expect to maybe hear from him. emotionally i'm a bit disappointed and impatient of course, but overall i think it's a good thing that he's taking his time to think things through and before he replies. whether he's maturely thinking this stuff through, or whether he's just going through internal BPD stuff of how-terrible-i-am. either way it's good that he's taking his time to work out what he wants. i do want this situation to start getting resolved - i've been in limbo for 6 months now and that feels like enough. i don't need an "immediate" resolution, but i need tangible steps towards a resolution in the foreseeable future. keepin busy. : )

What are some examples... .or more importantly... ."expectations" of what a tangible step is or looks like.

Good job keeping busy... .

What is the difference in keeping busy and building a life or yourself?

FF

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