BPDFamily.com

I'm new here. Married 19 years with 4 kids aged 6-18, oldest a freshman in college. I am a physician and my wife is a SAHM. Having many problems coinciding with oldest dtr graduating, me finishing med school and residency (a non traditional student, I don't recommend that path for your kids btw) and my wife feeling everything in the world is my fault with lots of reasons that she can't help them, also my fault. Physical violence is an ongoing concern, and she has been trapping me in rooms to listen to her, and refusing to let me out. I have pushed my way out a few times, engaged a few times that I regret. Of course I need therapy so I can learn to "treat her well" since that is all she wants. It should be simple, right? Two days ago, after paging me 22 times (I wouldn't answer calls or texts) and disrupting a night shift full of critical care and life threatening problems the night before, she stood in the doorway of our master bath explaining how I was wrong to seek to start (again) our attempts to improve our marriage with avoiding violence and physically controlling actions. She head butted my chest as I moved around her to leave. She then, while I packed up to leave for awhile, blocked the driveway with her car and got my tools and had my hood up to disconnect my battery. I walked away from the home. She walked after Mr, in her pajamas while joggers ran by (we live just off a busy street) and tried to pull me back with my bag, causing both of us to fall to the ground.

Now she has rewritten history that she kicked me out and she doesn't feel safe and I'm not allowed to see my children when I'm "only focusing on myself" Because I'm too "dangerous to them". This is not the first such incident.

I do still love her and I know that she is not well. She has many if the traits of high functioning BPD from Eggshells. I understand boundaries for my own sake, yet seeing my children is very important to me. I don't really want a divorce and to dissolve my family, however it can't go on like this. Any thoughts or experiences out there? Thanks for reading... .

You need to document the physical violence.  If it persists, you may need to call the police, as difficult as this will be. 

I can't imagine how a medical doctor could be expected to deal with a BPDs constant need for contact.  It was incredibly destructive to my career in academia.  But you're patients' lives could be at stake.

Welcome.

I was in a similar situation with my x once where she wouldn't leave my house, so I left, she chased me down with her car, grabbed me while I was walking away and fell to the ground, and then threatened to call the police and tell I assaulted her.

That was over a year and a half ago and we're working on repairing our relationship (if it can be repaired). Unfortunately, much of what you described resonates. She's tried to physically prevent me from leaving rooms, raged, accused, blamed everything under the Sun on me, etc.

While things are far from perfect for us at the moment, I've learned to cut down on much of emotional rollercoaster that used to plague my existence. Yes, we still argue, but things are nowhere near as intense. She hasn't changed, but I've learned to reduce the conflict. Until the bleeding has stopped, repair cannot begin.

There are some great tools in the sidebar on the right that will help with the reduction. Many of us find that posting here to vent our frustrations is also very helpful because we get things out and don't let the tension build internally. Writing about the emotions and what we are experiencing also has the added benefit of forcing both sides of our brains to work together to process what is going on internally.

Finally, many find it therapeutic to respond to the posts of others.

Thanks for the words of experience. Do you live with your SO? We have 3 children in the home and of course she will not accept blame or even agree that freedom from violence is the place to start. I left over this sort of thing about a year ago (threw a phone at me and broke off my front tooth- it took her telling me that she would do it again if I didn't stop crying - only 6 hours later) I went home after 2 months of her doing everything in her power to make my life miserable and let this impact our children while keeping me from them and blaming me for being gone. She never did accept any blame or agree to avoid anything but she did stop.

I did my personal work over the guilt I felt at that time, and now that I refuse to agree with her the problems have escalated. How can I be with my children and in the same house with her without her even acknowledging the problem?

No, my SO (I probably should start calling her that rather than my x), and I do not live together anymore. We tried. That lasted a full two months before I moved out because of how she was treating me. That was before I discovered BPD and my own role in the problems in the relationship. A few weeks ago, we were discussing my moving back in with her and then I did something incredibly stupid and hurtful to her.

It's very common around here for us to talk about our pwBPD (person with BPD) not accepting any blame, accountability, or responsibility for their actions. The disorder makes it extremely difficult (some would say impossible) to do so. Acknowledging that they have created a problem or did something wrong triggers shame which triggers their abandonment fears. It means that they are less than perfect and makes them think that we will abandon them because of that.

It never ceases to amaze me that after all that a non puts up with, their fear of abandonment is so strong that they can't see that the non probably isn't going anywhere (unless it's the last straw... but that takes most of us a while to get there). It's just the nature of the disorder though. I suppose that some part of them knows what they are doing and questions why the non stays, so they always assume that "this time" it's the last straw.

Around here, we talk about Radical Acceptance (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.msg604907#msg604907) when it comes to things like that. You have to completely accept the person and all that comes with them in order for the relationship to work. In this case, the inability (without therapy) to accept accountability and responsibility for their choices and actions.

That does not mean giving them a "get out of jail free card." It just means that you have to accept who they are and protect yourself and children by creating and enforcing boundaries.

In addition to the boundaries, there are also communication skills that will help reduce conflict.

OK. I am reading the stuff on radical acceptance and it makes sense as the only way to tolerate all of this stuff. I suppose if I quit biting that eventually she will bait me less, but it seems unlikely. With violence as a very real concern, I am currently out of the house. She has threatened restraining orders and the usual divorce stuff in the last 24 hours (lately I've been encouraging her to do what she needs to do and refusing to talk about it). How do I or how can I go home when she won't admit that violence or physically controlling actions are a problem for her? And won't contract with me for some kind of safety? It seems like the physical abuse step is way too far. Last time I left for a while it stopped for a while, and I believe that is a possibility. How do I decided it is safe to be home when this is where we are presently?

Hang in there dude. This is my first post on this site and your article is the first I've read. Wow, I thought I was the only one dealing with similar stuff. I have no idea was to say but you are not alone.

In my case, it was really strange when my wife used to call me a coward for not wanting to take financial risks--such as an expensive vacation--when were already in a very precarious situation.  ("You can't not live your life because you're afraid of what might happen."  The surreal part of it is that fear--of being alone, of having to date again, of the huge mess that divorce would be, of not being there to protect our kids from her rages--is part of what kept me from leaving the relationship.

Things have really devolved. Sorry to hear that.

Most likely there are two things going on. One, she is struggling mightily with something. Two, your response is making it worse (not better, not neutral). It could be that she is having her "BPD" shifts and you may have given her too much latitude. You can be compassionate, loving, and rock firm. Most of us, however, don't do that naturally.

You need to stop doing what you are doing and look into another approach. You will also need to accept that it is going to take strength and time to resolve this... .its be building for a while.

I don't know a magic answer, but it might help to hear what she is saying that you are doing that causes her to act this way. I'm not suggesting that you are the cause or you try to fix it - but rather getting her mindset in clear focus is the starting point. It's best to meet her where she is when communicating with her.

What's her beef?

Thanks all for your input. As to her complaints with me, they are too numerous to count. And they change. For example yesterday am I came home to help take children to school, they have to be at two different schools at once, she pushed me, and screamed, in our front yard. She demanded I leave because I was making everyone late. I left to another part of the neighborhood but returned upon request of my teenager (left while she drove to elementary) so he could be on time. I drove him. Then I get dozens of texts and calls about how I am making everyone late. Today I offered to either stay home with young daughters or support son at swim meet. She demanded, moments ago, that I leave work to drive him to school to be transported with the team. Hours before the event. I calmly explained that I am working and I will not be driving him 1.5 miles to school and leaving the hospital during the day. She paged me twice, called me on cell x3, Called a phone I carry on the hospital twice. I answered none of them. I did reply to a text that I had already indicated what I would and would not do.

The recent catalyst has been my effort to establish boundaries, especially that I will not be apologizing or making up for things that I did not do wrong. I will no longer accept responsibility for things that I do not consider to be my fault or problem. Standing firmly (and calmly) behind those boundaries has escalated her anger to two violent episodes. I got angry with the first one, the second one is described above in my post. I guess pushing me yesterday makes 3. I am not responding to the many many texts and calls and pages unless they ask a tangible question about family business.

I have certainly been inconsistent with boundaries in the past, everything I read says this will be tough .

OK, so you are in an ongoing power struggle and battle of wills and its escalated to DECON3.


The wheels are coming off the train... . 

Values and boundaries are really important. Really important.
"Boundaries" are often confused with declaring war and drawing a broad line in the sand that says "I'm not taking your s__t anymore you unreasonable _______"

Can you read this and tell us a bit more about what you did right and what you did that may have been antagonistic? Can we find some things to fix on your end that might get things to a stable place and then start over again... .maybe differently.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

The countless text messages, all blaming and accusations, many of which conflict with each other and reality, are very hard to ignore. I've silenced messages from her, but there are so many inaccuracies and inconsistencies that they are hard to ignore. I understand that she wants me to engage her and pickup the gauntlet and argue. I am trying not to. Does anybody have stories about this stopping? I was in a similar situation with her a year ago, but I had not done my homework at that time. I was angry and defending myself constantly. I have a hard time feeling like I can act like some of these things were never said, especially without an apology.

Skip- I didn't see your post when I posted last and didn't answer your questions. Most of the fighting is circular and focused on how I have ruined everyone's (wife and kids) by going back to school and through residency. A whole lot of "it's my turn now, why can't you treat me well?". I have accepted blame a lot, and deserved it a lot. The catalyst for a lot of fighting last year was our oldest being a senior in HS and moving to a new house. No infidelities, unless you want to count working all of the time. I have been an active parent, coaching/attending things, and I have yelled at them more than I am proud to report. In the last year I have worked hard on therapy, financial mgmt, taking better care of my own health (gained weight, developed sleep apnea and associated problems). I have made progress in some areas more than others, but I have clearly made changes. This is in response to a similar issue a year ago where I drew a line in the sand about circular arguments, and ultimately devolved into physical fighting.  Again I participated more than I was proud to report. She threw a phone at me and broke my tooth, withheld sex for months as well. Since she decided to reconcile from that (never acknowledged that my argument had any merit or was anything other than my selfishness), I decided the only thing to do would be to listen to her to try to validate her and do my work on myself. I figured the best I could do was work as hard as I could and she would notice the difference and there would be peace. I used Dr Lee Baucom 's Save the Marriage guide plus therapy.  Started an antidepressant that changed things a lot for me.

The last month or two, at the recommendation of therapist, I decided to calmly stop taking blame for things that I did not believe were my fault. Validate and make sure she knows I was listening, and calmly tell her I disagree. I have been pretty steadfast about it. I have also been a broken record about old things. "I know that you were hurt by that. I have already apologized a great deal for that. I remain sorry for those incidents but I have nothing new to add. "

It seems my failure to engage in fighting has led to the escalating behavior. I have offered to do whatever specific things that are concrete or measurable so we will know when I have achieved it. She gave me a couple, including transferring therapy to a Domestic Violence non profit that has counseling for abused and abusive partners. She believes I come home after any kind of therapy and do things worse, because I charm them or they have "doctor awe" and think any wife "should be happy to have a doctor ". I changed and they introduced me to the idea that these are borderline traits.

Refusing to accept blame or apologize has led to her unraveling in some ways that better fit BPD traits, and the subsequent physical issues described previously. "You are a terrible father, you won't even take care of your kids!" And "you aren't allowed to go near them or me. You are dangerous to us. ". In nearly the same breath. I have increasingly presented evidence of improving financial mgmt, she refuses to look at our budget and spends what she believes we need to spend (nothing lavish, but if it isn't in the budget... .) She has become increasingly insulting about myself, my body, my family, with all of the old issues included. And when I still won't fight, it has escalated to violence . Sometimes in front of my kids. Once where she stood by the fact that it never happened and it was in my head. I told her physical violence is a ship I will go down on, and that is the truth. She has threatened divorce, protective orders, pressing charges for assault, she has come to my work to demand I engage and fight with her. I will not. Right or wrong that is where I am. I have frequently repeated that I do not want a divorce, but I do want things to be different than they are. And that I do hear her. And I still love her. And I don't agree with whatever she is saying, or I won't apologize more as nothing has changed. Not always Spock like calm, but most of the time.

Is there something not related to you that is upsetting to her?

Our oldest is struggling some in college.  Also she has assembled a core group of friends - all married with big families like ours. She has confided in them, I have encouraged it and I like them all, their husbands too. One of them told me they had a little "whose husband is the biggest ass this week " contest that was pretty benign wives complaining about their  husbands to blow off stream. I was told that they uniformly disagreed with her about me- that I was the most involved with the children and they had a hard time imagining that all the things she says about me could be true. Apparently it was a confrontational moment and I think she will be finished with one or two of them as a result.

My question at the moment is, what can I do if she won't acknowledge that violence is a problem? And won't agree to try to stop it? I don't see her accepting blame, which is fine -part of the condition even - but I can't be with her if I can't even get lip service that these behaviors are an issue. Any thoughts out there besides wait and see?

Visibility is generally the cure to violence... .ask her parents to help. Call the police when she gets out of hand.

Don't try to convince her violence is a bad idea - show here.

Important, though, is the need to explain, in a time of calm, what actions you will take. Don't make it threatening - make it a positive thing.

OK. What's an appropriate response to violating that boundary (violence and controlling actions like blocking me into a room)? It generally starts with blocking me in, so I can tell when things are escalating that direction. I tried to broach this previously and went with "I will walk out and take 24 hours out of the house to let things calm down ". Admittedly it was not a time of calm, and I wasn't prepared for her to rewrite it as my fault as I should have expected. I am not in the house right now.

Get back in the house.  *) Live with you family as long as you are committed with this.

Most likely you see the signs coming on and you should then do things that don't escalate it and don't get in the line of fire. Leaving is a good tool, but there is leaving/ defusing and there is leaving/escalating. Don't the latter.

Walk the dog. Wash the car. Take a long shower. Go to the gym. Get a page  *)

Have a talk with her when she is calm. When you lose you temper I get anxious and whatever it is that you're mad about just goes over my head. It really best for us to give each other respectful space, wait until things are calmer, and then talk. I want to hear what you have to say. I might also slip in there, nicely, that if she hits you, she will need to leave.

After you do this for a while and she is not getting anything out of ramping up, she should start calming down more.

Regarding the "she will need to leave"... .do you homework on this. Talk to your attorney, get visibility on the problem so that you don't get caught short if the police are called out.

I can't see any way for me to possibly return home safely right now.

To be honest, I get 40 to 50 consecutive angry and blaming texts to which I generally don't reply, listing every sin or perceived hurt, going back several years. I get these every day. Sometimes twice when the angry diatribes. When I don't reply, from work mind you, she calls and calls both phones I carry until I either answer or turn them off. Yesterday I told her I was incredibly busy but would set aside 5 minutes to cover anything we need to work on quickly. Same angry blaming and shaming, to which I either respond with "I have apologized and sought to make that up to you many times already, I don't have anything new to add" or "I understand that you feel_______ about that. Is there something I could do to help address______?" I have to interrupt to say that much. At 6 minutes I told her I needed to go and had to hang up, only to have her keep calling until I powered down. I don't get the good half of the splitting, I feel like she has only rage and anger.

 The worst of all was my dtr, 18 and a freshman at college, called me to talk me into going home. I explained that we were having problems and that every disagreement has turned into something physical and that I couldn't tolerate that in my home. My wife has hit my dtr as well, in anger, more than once in the last year even. When I reminded her of this my child says that she was acting crazy and things were always better after that. Classic domestic violence talk- I deserve it and we have such good times after that. This cycle has to stop. I have 3 more children younger than her. I can't tolerate this in my home and I don't want to break up my family. And the wife won't accept that violence is a bad idea in the home. And I don't see how I can go home safely when she is angry enough to write 50 texts to which I don't even reply. And it only escalates when I calmly try to validate her complaints eh without accepting blame and offer to address the problem itself. Feelings=facts right now. And they are all negative.

I understand get back in the home and try to get along as advice. And if she won't let anything happen until I accept blame, I don't know what to do. I want to feel like this is the terrible time everybody has when they decide to have boundaries and actually stick to them, but it seems pretty awful.

What is she actually feeling when she gets like that?

Hello Stresseddoc, frankly I'm not surprised you are stressed. It takes a massive amount of (emotional) energy to sustain yourself with this level of abuse. You seem pretty focused compared to many... .

Things that seem obvious to me is that she is PUNISHING you. For every little nothing. You must have realised (even by reading your own) posts that it doesn't really seem to matter what you do... .or how perfect you are. Just a reminder that she is very unwell. Hurt people, hurt people. She must be quite disturbed to behave like this... .and more to the point live like this.

I try to believe that you're the preoccupied (busy doctor) husband and she is the poor neglected and mistreated spouse... .I don't buy it, but you're going to have to validate her somehow.

It is good that she has a friendship group and everyone seems real but that is the part that a pwBPD is going to clash when they don't validate her delusions. In fact if any of them went to the trouble of invalidating her they stand a good chance they will be painted black in very short time.

So while the feedback you have recieved from these friends is very validating for you, can you imagine how you might feel if they bought all her bullsh*t?... .and turned on you?

That is invalidation... .and that's how she likely feels about the situation. That these friends have turned on her. Whoever sides with them will be painted black with the same brush.

I sense that everything you are doing is not working or getting results. I would suggest to do things differently. The escalation to physical violence is unacceptable.

The boundary you (and your children) need may be to either remove yourself and them or suggest she do the same for a set period of time.

If you are committed to her... .this is not going to be easy.

Explore the tools here. Practice them. Watch the videos. Take time for yourself.

Thanks @JohnLove for the encouragement. I agree that it feels like punishment is her goal. And I agree (know actually) that she will turn on friends who challenge her. As to validation for me, the counselor that my wife demanded I see who works exclusively with domestic violence cases, including abusers, has changed my point of view the most. She has stressed that violence and physically controlling actions are not OK regardless of the sins or hurts, and we have spent a good deal of time discussing some of the issues with my children. Specifically we discussed the types of adaptive behaviors seen in children who witness these things. As she went through the various responses I saw each of my children in one of them. It was terrifying.

I don't anticipate that she will cave in and agree with me at this point, and in fact she has escalated with some behavior at my hospital with our 6 year old at her side. I don't really know what to do. With thanksgiving this week it is even more likely to come to a head. Holidays are VERY important to her and this will come to a head.

Any thoughts on how to make the holiday work? It seems that if someone from outside our family is present that she is worried enough about appearances to be better during that time period.

What was your life like before you went back to school? What was your job? If you had one with regular hours, then residency/being on call is a significant change.

PwBPD can experience rejection/abandonment differently. You may not see it- as you are working hard and your new career will benefit the family, but I think just about anything that takes your attention off her can be perceived as rejection.

One of my favorite models is the drama triangle. You can read about this on this board. Once someone is in "victim" mode, they can lash out in punishment.

One very difficult time in my marriage was when we started our family. Some women feel great when pregnant, but I did not. I felt nauseated and tired. I assumed my H would see that this was a temporary situation, but he interpreted my lack of energy, interest in sex, attention to him as rejection. Then, he "punished" me with the ST, anger, withholding sex. I didn't understand what was going on at the time. I felt punished and abandoned at a vulnerable time. If I approached him from "victim" position ( "please understand me" it was like adding fuel to a raging fire.

I think you probably feel as if you deserve some understanding. It isn't as if you have much control over the call schedule, or being paged, but I would be willing to bet that each time that happens, your wife is perceiving this as doing it to her on purpose. This could sound absurd to you, but consider that, a pregnant wife with morning sickness was interpreted as purposeful rejection and that doesn't make much sense either.

I didn't experience violence thankfully. That is not to be tolerated. However, perhaps understanding her perspective will help you change some of your reactions and feelings about her behavior. In dealing with these situations, self care is key. That's hard to achieve when you are also stressed and tired. Your job is demanding, and you give what you can to your family, but also taking care of yourself can help you be in a better place with your feelings and reactions. I don't know if you have considered counseling, or other ways to get support, but perhaps that can help. This may sound backwards- she has the problem, but really, it becomes a family problem and all members could use some support.

I was a physical therapist with a mostly traditional work week. And medical training took 8 years and we are 3 years after that. I can (now that I understand better)handle many of the day to day outbursts that are described in some of the teaching modules. I am dealing with just crushing and never ending criticism that is not based in logic. And it is blame for me, literally 100% my fault - her friendships have suffered because I have "tortured her for years and left her bombed out and useless to everyone." She is less of a mother for the same reasons. Unable to volunteer in any capacity (something she used to love doing) and certainly unable to work (I have encouraged her to find something that fulfills her, which could be a job but doesn't have to be). All of our money problems are too far gone and all my fault, too far gone for her to discuss and participate with a budget. "You make plenty of money, if you didn't waste it by mismanagement ".I would like to connect with her but I cannot ask her out without "why now, you didn't want to ask me out for holidays " on and on. I think she might be depressed. This isn't how she is typically. And she won't consider that anything could be wrong. And now that I have made a stand about not telling her I agree with her when I do not, things can escalate. All the way to violence if I don't separate.

We have 4 kids, 6-18. Right now she is telling me she will drive to her family (1000 miles). We went last year and things got much much worse there. I could not leave when fighting. No violence there (which means she can control or modify her actions) but nowhere to hide. Lots and lots of fighting. I can't be in a house with her right now and every phone call is a fight. I am not sure what to tell my children. Any thoughts?

Holy smokes!  You've just described my brother's ex-wife.  In one of her rages, he fled the house and went to his office to sleep.  That wasn't enough for her so she followed him.  He was asleep in his office on the 3rd floor of the building.  But his truck was vulnerable in the parking lot.  She ran into his truck, and rammed it again, and again, and again ... .  $40,000 later both cars were fixed.  That doesn't even begin to cover what she did.  He finally took the leap and divorced her to protect himself, but he went through a lot of abuse at her hands first.  And, he was one of the strongest men I know with a career that only strong people pursue and succeed in, but even he was duped and preyed upon by a low functioning BPD.

From what you describe, your wife sounds low functioning, not high.  Remember that the second label with high functioning is invisible, and low functioning is visible.  Everything your wife did outside is literally HIGHLY visible and a high functioning BPD typically isn't going to let that kind of behavior happen outside where people could see.  That is my understanding, could be wrong.

Although I didn't read every response in complete detail, I see a lot of responses are focused on your wife's behaviors.  Well, who the heck is taking care of you?  You seem quite focused on her, and until you stop focusing on saving her, you're going to keep sinking.  We cannot save BPDs!  I tried for 19 years to save one, and he didn't want it.  I just about lost myself in it, almost totally, nearly, completely lost who I was, and you know what?  That didn't work anyway!  Let her blow up!  And call the police!  She isn't going to wake up until real life consequences crush her.  You are cushioning her by allowing her to abuse you and doing nothing about it.  My ex BPD was too good because he was high functioning and knew just how far to push all the time to keep from doing something that the police could do anything about, because they can't do anything about intimidation like door slamming, throwing things, hitting walls... .  But when real life consequences FINALLY hit him - when I told him he had to move out - and he was finally sitting in the nest he had spent the last 19 years crapping in for himself, I'll tell you, he felt awful.  And when we moved into a new house and I realized some of my dreams WITHOUT HIM, (he moved into a different new house), reality and real life consequences hit him really hard. 

We non-BPDs don't get ANYWHERE with BPDs until we set AND enforce boundaries that are SO BIG they have to see them, feel them, listen to them.

Here is what happened to me, and here is what will happen to you without radical change.

"It's like pouring the best of your self into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you'll fall right down that hole yourself. There will be nothing left of you but your own shadow, just as it falls through her predatory "event horizon.""  (I found that on this site, never could have said it better myself).

And I would like to share a word of caution on radical acceptance --- radical acceptance is not for situations like yours.  Radical acceptance is for our our personal mental illnesses and dealing with those.  If I have depression and I am feeling absolutely miserable like I am the black hole, I radically accept that in order to move forward and up and out of that black hole with other DBT strategies.  Radical Acceptance is not a DBT stand alone strategy, and it is never a strategy when someone is abusive.  You can radically accept that your situation sucks, or radically accept that you're miserable, then decide what you're going to do about your situation or your misery.

Thanks @thefarside for your input. The public displays have only started recently, and since I have asked her to honor one boundary - no violence or physically controlling behaviors - or I can't be in the home. Thus far she has not agreed to honor that, and I have told her that I will not be backing down. She has made bolder and bolder moves since then. That was at the beginning of my first post. I have stopped lying to my children that I am working, and (at the recommendation of the domestic violence counselor (that she demanded I see because I'm the one with the problem) I have explained to my children that I cannot be there because mommy and daddy are not getting along. We are fighting a lot, and fighting in front of you is not OK.

Thus far she has not backed down and is refusing to grant me access to my own children. We are not legally separated, there are no arrangements that grant her that power. For now I will let it be. My teenagers know and one is on the fence about who to believe and the other is just angry. The younger two do not have phones and I have not been able to talk to them except for when the 8 year old gets a cordless phone and calls me. They are mostly angry at their mother for not getting along.

We have no plans for Thanksgiving and I suspect she thinks I will cave. I have told her I will be around her when another adult is present or when she is ready to agree that violence and physically controlling actions are not OK. We will see how it goes.

I appreciate the support of this community. Writing these things down makes me unable to believe that I let it get this far.

Thank you all and happy thanksgiving.

She may not be responding well to the expressed boundary because it is telling her that she's a bad person. This, combined with the constant reminder that her own actions pushed you out of the house, is probably keeping her dysregulated.

I'm not suggesting that you put yourself back in a situation where there is domestic violence. But, do you think that it would help to de-escalate the situation if you were to meet her for coffee or something? Nothing stressful, in a public place, and that doesn't last too long.

  StressedDoc,

Welcome to the boards. I see you have already been guided beautifully on the articles, different validating techniques and resources. This board is great in that regard.

I have been where you are, also in the Natural Med field and was a domestic violence and Casa advocate for many years. I can see your situation is spiraling out of control. I give you kudos for being there for your kids, giving boundaries ( Violence is never acceptable BPD or not), and trying with your wife. I understand the hours and finances are not easy either when going on for a higher degree and more responsibilities. Add in a college child and wow. What a lot of changes for your family. As stressful as it is for the wife, I agree with some the work place is no place for some of her antics ( as nice as I can call it).

 I am sorry things are tough for her right now, and hope you can all get into counseling, some good validating techniques, her stabilized and you and the kids safe and reunited. With her not responding to boundaries, her demands increasing, her threats of keeping kids away and no acceptance of responsibility ... .I would highly encourage you to think about perhaps visiting the other parts of the boards. The legal, the family section for how to co parent with a borderline. Perhaps the stop walking on eggshell book, and the deciding or conflicted board. There is only so much that can be said on this one. It is for strongly encouraging to make it work  which is great and needed but not so much about conflicting or deciding. If you should have to go another route.
 


I of course want it to work for you,and with validating, de escalating techniques and giving as much love as possible will have its rewards and I hope bring you all back as a family. Hoping all works and you can thrive.

But as an outside observer once you believe in yourself enough to love someone but not take abuse, face the abuse ( physical with the tooth, blocking, threats, hitting and emotional) and seek help which you have. You sometimes end up in a place of strength to see the emotional, financial and physical abuse won't just stop because you validate more.

 You have gotten advice which is good in abuse situations please don't back down from the safety and priority of no abuse. It is imperative to have a safety plan, wisdom and help of others that know BPD and domestic violence. She is spiraling... .So again if you chose to post in this section, great there is so much help, read the resources all over the board. But if you happen to choose to post in the deciding and conflicting you might get some more advice geared towards helping you decide which route to go, as this board is to only encourage you how to make it work. Work at all costs sometimes when violence is involved or emotional abuse and kids is hard without different avenues. Everyone need to be accountable, for finances, their behavior and attitude towards other family members. Everyone needs to look within and be respectful. Sometimes some BPD can't be wrong, admit wrong doings or even want to try to care. Some yes, some no. Only you know what yours is capable and wants to do.

To see you reach out to a domestic V counselor and have boundaries and want to keep that leads me to believe you know and understand at some level you don't deserve this ( which you don't). Some people never get to that point, and it is always an excuse and free pass for the BPD in their life. I have been there done that so no judging just saying if you are firm, you might need to see some other perspectives and other boards because no matter how much validating, love, help, trying, you do she just might not be willing to meet you half way.

Best regards, keep believing in  yourself, your job, capabilities, your children and the fact they and you deserve to have some safety, healthy interactions on finances, life and no abuse. It takes one person to make a stand to stop abuse, whether it is talking, setting boundaries, restraining orders, moving out or what . Be strong for yourself and kids. Quite frankly when someone is that ill to not respect, acknowledge your needs, your wants, your safety, your plan of safety or finances doesn't mean it is OK or you have to take it.

LR

Thank you so much. Things continue to escalate despite my efforts. I am writing up a plan to care for our children with limited interaction, to propose to her. I don't think it will be well received, but as you said, I am going through the steps outlined in other places and with a counselor. Documenting things along the way. I have reached a point where I will accept any outcome, besides staying the same.

For completeness, we did have a good Thanksgiving and she Abandoned her many arguments for the day. She has the ability to regulate her behavior (a good thing)and when we started to fall back into life together, I put the brakes on and asked for the safety from violence. It was not well received. Yesterday she agreed to safety from violence, and as expected, moments after I thanked her and announced my plan to come home, she informed me that I was not welcome there without making all of this up to her. So back into the FOG she wants me to go. I will not. I have begged her to tell me what kind of life she wants for herself and her children, so we can work backwards from there. She will not answer those questions. We are not at a point where I can decide to keep this going, and I agree that other forums may serve me better today.

Thank you all for your words and thoughts. I will seek to pay back others in this fashion on my journey.

Stresseddoc, this is a "Saving" board so you are getting "saving" advice. We have a Conflicted, a Divorcing and a Detaching board if you want to explore those angles.

In keeping with the "Saving" charter, I would point out that you two are fighting about how to resolve an event from weeks ago and neither of you is willing to yield on principal. Few relationships survive standoffs on principal... .


This is not to say that there should anything but zero tolerance on physical contact.

At the same time, this fight, for you, is all about her reaction out over you leaving the house - which was your reaction the her upset, which was her reaction to something that has transpired in the relationship (sounds like being put aside for you career).

If you want to solve this, you have to open the door to hear her concerns and solve those two.

It doesn't sound like you are willing to do this.


For her, is this about feeling or facts? You are focused on facts.


You may fare better on Family Law and Conflicted - agreed.

Hello, Stresseddoc. Your marriage sounds very similar to mine. If you're interested in a deep dive, I suggest reading my posts starting from around the time I joined a year ago through February of this year, when we separated.

My experience was that my wife's BPD behaviors began to ramp up when life circumstances created greater stress (job losses, interstate moves, financial problems, etc.). Blame for all of her negative feelings was projected on me. I eventually began to push back, as you did, by refusing to take blame for things I wasn't responsible for and asserting boundaries against violence and abuse. When I closed off the venue of using me as a dumping group for her negativity, that caused her rage to increase even more, leading to some domestic violence, 911 calls, and eventually separation.

From the "Staying" perspective, I would give you three pieces of advice. I'm not saying that any of these will lead to repairing your relationship, but they seem to be the best options considering where you are now.

1) Get her into aggressive therapy. Medication to manage rage and depression; DBT or other personality-disorder focused behavioral therapy. She has to be willing to do this and willing to acknowledge that she is responsible for her own problems in order for these to be at all effective.

2) Call 911 when you are in a domestic violence situation, including blocking or chasing behaviors. For me, calling 911 was a big step. It was not something I had done before. I was concerned that my situation was too trivial to merit a 911 call (nobody was being murdered, after all), and that it meant I was escalating the situation. The police saw it differently. They were appreciative that I had called and felt that it was an important tool for de-escalating domestic situations before they become worse. This may also force your wife to moderate her behaviors due to the consequences and can create a paper trail you may need later.

3) Formally separate. It sounds like you are heading in that direction by staying out of the house and trying to draw up rules for when you'll see the kids. This is a smart way to stop the violence -- she can't throw things at you if you aren't around. It can reduce the temperature with an enforced time out and perhaps allow for slow, cautious negotiation toward a relationship repair. it also begins to lay the groundwork for permanent separation, if that's the direction you end up taking.

I'll finish with quoting one of your earlier posts in this thread:
These are two separate and worthy goals, Stresseddoc. However, they may be mutually incompatible. You may have to decide which of these two goals will be your priority, if you can only have one.