BPDFamily.com

Well I guess its come to this.  I have tried to repair the damage I did... .its irreparable according to her... .and perhaps it is.  She is moving on and so should I.

How do I break what is essentially and addiction?  Even bad with her, fighting with her seems to feed it.  A day of good and a week of bad is enough to keep me holding on.  Just at a loss I suppose, never been in a relationship this intense... .this deep... .never been addicted to anything until her.

You have been fighting in a war, and withstood much abuse on all levels, You probably have PTSD like most of us did/do. Also you will have depression. PTSD is what causes us to obsess over them, and replay situations in our minds, over and over, and what causes our anger and rage, for what they have done to us. It also makes us feel spaced-out like we are losing our minds. First, you will need to make an appointment with a therapist/specialist, who is familiar with the personality disorders, who can keep you grounded. You may also need medication which has helped me, and many others. You will also need supportive friends/family. If you knew you had a tumor in your body what would you do about it? The answer is this site.

Glenn

Thank you for your support.  I talk with a T now, and it does help.  Not sure if I need meds yet but they arent out of the question.

I am sure the depression is coming.

And I appreciate this site and what it does for us all more than I can say.

OnceBitten,
I said the same thing when my r/s was over. It felt like an addiction w/that person and I've never been addicted to anything before in my life.
As you may have heard or read, there truly is an addictive component to these relationships from a neurological approach. The pleasure centers in the brain and the chemicals (dopamine, oxytocin, etc.) are behind why we feel addicted. The roller coaster ride, the ideation, the push/pull throughout these types of r/s and their dynamic interplay, cause the chemicals to be released and influence those brain centers. When we are without the person, it takes time to regenerate new patterns and neuronal connections and break the ones we had, thus leaving us that feeling of longing.
Sometimes it helps to remind me of why I felt addicted in the end. And this reasoning is truly backed by science! I didn't plan on getting all science-geek on you... .but when you mentioned the word addiction it got me to thinking. :D

Very well said Spyglass. These relationships, because of the turmoil/chaos that they entail,  never allow our brain chemistry to get beyond the "form a romantic attachment" stage. We get mired there. Consequently, as you so very nicely stated, we become addicted to our very own self-made drugs---our BPD partners become the catalyst we seek in order to keep the drugs pumping. Wow, what a trip!

I can relate to the addiction withdrawal. This is so awful! I wish I would have never met her and she knows how incredibly depressed I am and yet jumps right in with the next guy. She is truly the most evil human being I have ever known

spyglass

science indeed... .damn brain chemistry and its need to link us biologically.   I know what you are say and its true, I mean really without that aspect it makes no sense.  like i said, even bad fills the need of her. In some twisted way her raging at me brings me peace. And I suppose its because I have been conditioned to take that.  A little good feeds the addiction just enough to keep me around waiting for my next hit.

So true. However, I've slowly gotten over the raging with my ex. I still have limited contact for the time being. I can simply set the phone down so can she run on and on which apparently helps her. I heard it hundreds of times. Its coming less and less as she slowly moves on. But it does bring a strange peace of mind. Don't know if its an old conditioned response or validates how utterly messed up things were. The tactic changed recently to running on in glowing texts about her new life, a new man, what he does for her, and delving into the sexual which is almost humorous. I'm fortunate being in healthy relationship with an incredible woman that came from a similarly abusive relationship. We cherish the new freedoms and avoid the old behaviours affirming each other as needed. I had no idea what real intimacy and healing could come from healthy relationships and being away from the madness. It does take a lot of time though. PTSD is real... .the intense emotional abuse I allowed was far more damaging than the dozens physical beatings I allowed. I discarded the photos long ago, but have a few physical scars to remind how fortunate I am.

Sorry to her your pain oncebitten. I have raised the question in another thread but as this is related I thought it might be appropriate to continue it here. I'm now of the opinion that the borderlines and us follow similar developmental paths. At some point our coping strategies diverge. The borderlines become 'super-users' and we become 'super-givers'. If only they didn't take until we break, the match would be ideal. Alas, eventually they destroy and we break.

Alas, I fear we have a natural tendency to be drawn to and get addicted to the borderlines. Before I settled with my long term borderline, with hindsight, I have identified at least 4 women I dated for shorter periods with borderline traits. In every case they made me feel very alive. Due to my likely borderline mother I  think I weathered the painful bits as almost 'normal'. I feel I'm not only conditioned to date borderlines but fear I'm addicted to the intensity and 'aliveness' that they bring with them. Healthy relationships seem dull in comparison.

Somebody out there must have had the same realisation and tried to kick the habit. Please tell us your strategy and whether or not it worked. I don't want to continue being drawn towards and subsequently addicted to women who are emotionally draining and quite frankly disastrous for my health. A borderline can't be cured, what about a borderline addict ? Please help the afflicted !

That's an interesting theory tafkas and one I can relate to.  I see developmental similarities that diverge at some point in childhood and definitely recognise my predilection for becoming involved with people with PDs as an addiction.

I'm in my sixties and have had three major relationships, two with NPDs, the last with a BPD. I recognise my co-dependent tendencies.

My childhood was driven by chaos and drama; this became my norm and peace and quiet were boring. So there was a familiarity in the dramas of my relationships - the dramas also allowed me to ignore my problems, seeing myself as the rescuer.

I found the BPD relationship most intense but the NPD relationships were equally harmful in differing ways.

After years of therapy, where I gained intellectual understanding of my repeating pattern, I still couldn't break it. The agony of the BPD split, after a relatively short relationship, shocked me. After a year of no contact and much reading, I was seeing things clearly but still not detached. I personally think no contact is essential if you can do it.

I finally sought the help of a hypnotherapist specialising in regression to help me resolve the childhood FOO issues that caused me to repeatedly get involved with PDs who all abused me in one way or another.

I have found it very helpful. He talks to my subconcious and regresses me to childhood, he does not impose his treatment but asks my subconcious what happened, what my emotions were and what I want to do about it in adulthood and what I want to change.

I am not yet fully detached from my exBPD but feel a whole lot better, not just about him but, more importantly, about my self worth.

One thing did astonish me: I was married to an NPD for 25 years but did not see through his charismatic grandiosity. I divorced him because of his physical abuse when drunk. We were divorced 15 years ago but remained on good terms with me still buying into his front. I saw him in August after my second session of hypno and the elements of him that I had blinkered myself to were blindingly obvious. Complete detachment happened naturally in a day. I realised that I had not fully detached from him during the 15 years since our divorce - and I hadn't realised it.

Detachment will happen with the BPD too, as I get stronger, understand and value myself more. I think the key is within us. It helps us to understand what BPD is but ultimately we detach by looking inwards and growing.

Different strokes for different folks. There are many different types of therapy. I finally found the  one that worked for me. Good luck to you on your journey.

 

Once bitten
I think we can theorize about it all day but the answer is NC. Go cold turkey. Sweat out the withdrawal and move on

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=300579.msg12814110#msg12814110

You always be realistic about the overall of the relationship; how much bad compared to good? When you still want to feed off the crumbs, remember that the harder you try, the more you are hurt.

It comes down to NC; once you have had enough of the nonsense, you will realize that the only way to "break the addiction" is to commit to staying away from her, regardless of either of your emotions.

I'm glad I found this post. Sadly, addicted I am!

And aside from being addicted to the person and the connection we had / have, it's hard not to be addicted to the way they return over and over. Your brain gets wired for it after a while. It's dire! And so very hard to live through the part where they finally don't come back, or you finally pull yourself away, or go nc.

It's like I'm walking through the world in a disconnected dream state some days. In a fog, wondering where he is, where he's gone... .replaying it all.

I'm glad of the reminder about the PTSD and depression. GlennT, your description of it is very familiar! I'm not sure I can ever truly return to the person I was before all of this. But I will try very hard!

Oncebitten, I have weened myself off in the strangest most slow motion way! We tried to keep in contact with texting only for a while after breakup number whatever. Unlike the previous ones, I managed to physically stay away. Even just texting, it all went horribly wrong again. So I said, no phones, but he can write to me via post and reach out if he feels better or can help with a true solution.

Letterbox - very empty.

I've had to do it in fits and starts, in so many stages. Don't feel bad. This is hard and it takes 101 self pep talks to get through it somehow... .
I hope my journey with it can get better soon, I'm still pining!

We need to learn from our BPD relationships; looking forward to getting back the good parts of us that worked well in life, and figuring out why we accepted what we did and stayed as long as we did so we can have better lives, and relationships in the future.
The positive of going through a BPD relationship is the wisdom that is gained.

Now, if we can only learn to be "addicted" to ourselves, love ourselves unconditionally. Then maybe, hopefully, the addiction to the ex pwBPD slowly fades away into the abyss!  :)

Skyglass

we should be so lucky... .if that were the case we wouldn't have gotten so involved with them in the first place.  we would have put a stop to things at the first red flag.  she never had any respect for my boundaries... .never and yet Iet her have everything. 

Hello again, OB, Right, it's about learning to love and accept oneself, to the point that one is unwilling to be the object of anyone's abuse.  That's one thing I learned in the aftermath of my marriage to a pwBPD.  My BPDxW trampled all over my boundaries.  I ignored the red flags.   red-flag  If I had been smart and had better self-esteem, I would have run for the hills in the early stages of my r/s.  Instead, I learned the hard way about BPD.

LuckyJim

LJ

hey long time no see old friend.  Well I do love myself and I have had enough.  Its not worth the abuse at this point.  Once upon a time she was... .no more.  I have tried and tried.  But I am done with a woman who wants to tell me I act like a child then throws a tantrum because she cant manage her own emotions.

The addiction is terrible. 2 mos no contact after getting drunk and sending mean messages followed by her having her adult children contact me and tell me if I contacted her again the police would be involved. This after one week telling me we would be together and just days later breaking up and immediately being with a new guy. I'm not exaggerating when I say these have been the hardest days of my life. Missing work at times because I can't get out of bed for 50 hours, losing almost 20 pounds, having breakdowns even at work. She watched me deteriorate all summer and showed no compassion whatsoever. This the woman who once worshipped me but I could not stand for her ongoing childish and downright disrespectful behavior. It doesn't help that she lives only ten mins away and I know she's there with her new toy now. He is likely going to be in a world of hurt at some point as well. She told me her last BF was suicidal when they broke up. I passed her on the highway today and it triggered me big time and put me in a tail spin. She used to text me constantly and I was even checking my phone. I am distraught

Duped

I know how you feel.  Its awful they way they pull you in.  Tell you are everything then walk out like you meant nothing.  Mine behaves like a child all of the time and when I challenge the behavior, its me who is being childish.

Thanks once bitten. I am a train wreck. I hardly hunted all fall and hunting is my passion. Left early on our annual bowhunting trip w my dad and bro because I was teary most of the time and didn't get up some days. Haven't worked out in about 4 mos and that is not like me at all.

Our conflict pattern was that she would do something rude and I would try to get her to be accountable for her behavior often through texting for hours and sometimes days. She wanted to marry quickly but I knew I couldn't unless some of her behavior changed. I would reprimand her repeatedly which on hindsight I should have just walked away. She could say the nastiest things to me but couldn't handle any negative feedback and she would cry and over time her family would see this and I am now the abusive villain as of course she owned none of it and said it was ALL my fault.

Duped

Man I am sorry that you are going through this.  I will offer what I can... .be warned I am on recylce number ? idk i have lost count... .ita double digits easily.  Keep posting it does help... .and know that you arent in this alone.  I have talke with plenty of people on here who were in the same place we are... .we can get better just like they did... .just have to recondition the brain and get out of the FOG

Thanks Once Bitten. Much appreciated and that is very kind of you. I have a lot of guilt about lashing out at her and it played right into her hands of being the victim in her family's eyes, which is far from the truth but now they all hate me I'm sure especially when she got the kids directly involved. I feel terrible about that and have extreme guilt. The whole thing is a nightmare and she is heartless

thats what she wants sadly... .she wants to be able to play the victim.  She needs that sympathy.

She will always play these games, if she doesn't she risks being exposed for what she really is.

I wish I could tell trip from normal feelings of infatuation. I don't have much to draw on. My last relationship ended 9 years ago. I was out of the dating game due to illness until two years ago, when I made a series of abortive attempts at romance. When my BPD ex came wandering on to the scene, she seemed too good to be true (and she was). This chaos and drama is not how I expected my love life to proceed. At least now I understand how I am one of the sources of the chaos, in some contexts and with some people.

BB

sorry to hear that you have had to go through all of that.  There is no doubt that we contribute to the chaos in our relationships.  I know that I have, my need to fix things that are her problems tends to make things worse.  Its my nature, I can try and crub it and I do... .but it tends to still come through in the end

Everything is ok for a while, and then it hits me... .she is gone.  This time its for real, she walked out for the last time.  The pain in the pit of my stomach grows.  My heart begins to physically ache... .and the sense of loss is overwhelming.  How does one cope with that?  Never in my life have I felt so alone, so much despair.   What has this woman done to my mind.  My heart and soul seem lost without her.  I have lost friends, family, and loved ones to death and yet this hurts more.  How is the loss of a relationship worse than losing someone to death itself?
I wish I could fix it, bring her back, recieve her love once more.  God I am an addict, I guess this is what it's to recover from a drug.

It is agony Oncebitten and this might sound like a platitude but it does get better. Little by little, not linear, but gradually it gets better. It's not quick and it's something that has to be lived through.

It was the worse experience of my life, I felt as though my legs had been cut away from me. I thought I would never recover. You are not alone.

I think the effect on us is so profound because they mirror the best of us, we love what we see, we think we have found our soulmate. And then, when it ends, it feels as though we have lost part of ourselves. Our ideal self, the missing part of the jigsaw. Someone here once described it as losing our twin.

I'm 15 months of self-imposed nc. I'm a lot better than I was but not fully detached. But I can look back with perspective now and see things clearly. I regard it as a severe illness with a long recovery time and accept that. I know I will recover; for now it's accepting that convalescence will take some time although I'm no longer in agony and, the blessing is, that I'll never get involved with a PD again. 

Good luck. The only way forward is one day at a time, and although it's not linear, recovery from triggers gets quicker as time passes.

Why is it so addicitive? The ups were so exhilarating but the downs were so heartbreaking. No one has ever treated me so poorly in my entire life and after all the betrayal, lies, misrepresentation, harshness, cruelty, disrespect, judgement, childish behavior, etc. part of me still misses her. She is a self-centered child with a black soul. How pathetic I have become. What happened to the laid back funny guy I used to be? Sad

It is exactly an addiction.  I am currently 8 months sober from 25 years opiate use and I will tell you... .THIS feels worse.   Although drugs/alcohol are highly addictive and causes dependency, it is nothing like the emotional addiction experience that I'm currently going through.  It is so overwhelming sometimes that I'm not sure how to proceed besides day by day.  I've never experienced dreams about someone and wake up and feel heart broken all over again.  She was my best friend (was platonic only) and now she's mist.   I'm trying to detach because she will not offer closure... .just my own loud unanswered questions.  Comparing a drug addiction to her... .all I can say is at least the drugs didn't give me the silent treatment.  At least it was black and white.  I often question if I am irreparably damaged emotionally because of her and she could care less.  It sucks man.  I get it.

Empty

I am so sorry to hear that you are having to recover from this after fighting a substance addiction.  I have often wondered what was worse.  And now you have told me... .wow that's a little trouble some... .not sure I posess the strength to get past this.

Great explanation from Troisette.

OnceBitten, the course of recovery that Troisette describes is not available if you continue to dip your toes back in the water and try. You say here that she's "really gone" now, but that has never proven to be the case before, has it? Several people here have observed, with pwBPD who come back, that the only person who can or will end this is you.

I started a trauma recovery therapy while I was still in close touch with my ex wBPD. (Incidentally it was that course of therapy that led to me changing how I show up in the relationship quite significantly. I no longer just accept whatever he says the terms are. That ultimately led to the end of our relationship; though not without some protracted death throes.)

Anyway, when I first started that therapy approach, I found I still felt terrible.  I was still in constant contact with my person wBPD. A friend said "I don't know that you can recover from trauma while you are still being traumatized." That proved true. I have made big strides only when I've been in a protracted break (meaning 10-15 months at a time) from this dynamic. The fact that I then feel strong enough or whatever to try again means that I keep not quite making it out of the woods; he says things to match my new position and, so far, I have always wanted to check out whether things have changed. (So far, not.)

But the point is: at some point you have to decide if you want to live in this state of mind indefinitely, because continued engagement without something changing really ensures you will keep feeling like this.

My ex and yours and others discussed here have systems running that methodically make us feel like crap. We can either try to change our reactions so we no longer feel like crap (not healthy if what is going on is abusive), or accept that we are going to feel terrible, or establish real boundaries and stop engaging on the old terms that are so comfortable to the pwBPD.

With some BPD behaviors, it may be possible to just stop caring about the behavior, and not do great violence to yourself or your values. That's not true of my r/ship: the behavior is inherently humiliating and diminishing. Can you isolate your ex's core pattern and decide if it is inherently diminishing?

If it is not something you can learn to live with without harming yourself, you can accept you are going to be continuously injured, or you can draw some lines that may result in it being The End--and let go of the outcome. I had to tell my ex I wouldn't see him on anything other than a casual level (which is of little interest to either of us)--unless something had changed with his basic approach (akin to pipedreamer's requirement that her partner stop drinking). He's been honest enough to tell me each time he comes back that it hasn't changed and he doesn't think it will. So ... .I need to stop.

I say all this because it seems to me you periodically post on Detaching saying it is over because SHE is done. But then it turns out she is not done, it's nice for a while, then you are right back here. The question is-- are YOU done, done with the way this has been going.

patientandclear has given great advice here based on her experience; if you don't remain NC long enough, you will never get out of the FOG and see clearly enough to make a proper decision regarding your relationship.
I found that even if I had very little contact with my ex. ("encounters" that were worse than recycles), I would feel awful right away afterwards, and it became harder to maintain NC and recover each time we saw one another.

my problem is letting go of the dream... .that dream of a future with her.  I guess I need to let go of that so I can fully detach and heal.

It's been 2 mos NC and she has a new guy immediately but it's still so weird not hearing from her. She used to text constantly and she loved to beat me down and remind me of everything I'd ever done wrong in the relationship. It's strange not being insulted on a regular basis

duped

I know how you feel... .you become conditioned to think that any kind of attention is good attention.  I am in the same place... .even her raging at me is better than being without her.

That is so true Once Bitten. Sad but true. The new guy is in for a real treat once the idolization phase ends.

indeed... .its a hard landing when you get pushed from the pedestal

what the heck... .I do something that I need to do to detach... .after she had told me she was done.  Fine you are done then I am done... and then I get a text from her... .some bs about what I did... .if you are done why do you keep reaching out?

ABSOLUTELY   |iiii

its so damn hard when they keep re-engaging you

You could not read the messages, or block her number. Change your pattern.

OnceBitten--highly recommend that you stop expecting her to do anything other than this current pattern.  (Note that a ways up the thread you wrote, as if you believed it, "she is really gone this time."  It was completely predictable that she would be gone for a nano-second only.)

She gets something out of this current dynamic -- where she continuously pushes you away and you keep trying to get re-admitted.

She is in control and it feels good.  She is not lightly going to give it up as it is gratifying.

If you want this to change, you will need to change what YOU do.

PNC

I know, I did something, she did what she always does and I reacted.  Doesn't matter if my reaction is neg or pos.  She got me to react which is exactly what she wants. I have no idea what she gets out of my reaction but she does indeed enjoy it. 

If you are done with someone, and they do something that doesn't really affect you but you notice... .do you need to message them?

No. You don't have to do anything that doesn't feel right for you. And you don't have to justify, explain, or defend your decision.

If you are truly done, then your behavior will be different now than when you were in the relationship.

heartandwhole

heart

no I was asking about her.  Why would she message me if she is really done? 

Because she is not done in the sense that she will completely let you go. Because:

• Her feelings change in a heartbeat, and feelings=facts
• She might need you now or in the future
• Reaching out soothes her uncomfortable feelings

I'm sure you can think of more.  If she can have you around without having to invest herself to the point that she will dysregulate, then it doesn't surprise me that she would try to hold on to you somehow, especially after having been in a close relationship with you.

Heart

close doesn't begin to describe our relationship.  Incredibly close for both of us

Hello again, OB, It's not about her, my friend; rather, in my view it's about whether you are ready to get off the roller coaster.  Well, are you?  If not, that's OK.  LJ

It does feel like an addiction. I'm sorry you went thru that. After my ex female friend ended out friendship 4 months ago (we were more than friends but not as a couple) I felt utterly hopeless. When talking to her. She made me feel like a million bucks.

I relapsed a couple of times & contacted her, back last Aug and again last week. Its difficult to let go of someone you shared your most inner thoughts and personal information with and now they act like you don't exist. Even after reading a book about BPD it still boggles my mind how things between her and I went downhill. I'm still healing and resumed NC. I'm hoping to keep it that way. I'm sorry you went thru that, empty reflection.

OB,

It's not re-engagement unless YOU participate. This is not about her getting control of herself and moving on---it's about you getting control of yourself and moving on, if that is what you want. She may never truly move on, but you can.

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