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How do you deal with the insults? The accusations? The deliberately misunderstanding what you're saying and twisting your words to make you seem more sinister? Or the threats to leave you "forever"?

My BPDbf has gotten much better with this over time. He still has that angst simmering under the surface, and he's still prone to erupt, but he calms down much quicker and will even apologize. I've also sharpened my skills. Most times, something works - validation, light humor, shiny object, ignoring, something. His mini-episodes will blow over before anything boils over.

But there are times when nothing works... .what then? When he goes looking for trouble where there is none, then argue that he doesn't want to argue?  I swear, some days he just gets in a bad mood and can't shake it. Thru those goggles, he will see virtually anything I say/do as wrong and resort to name calling or accusing me of "attacking" him, being mean, rude, sarcastic, insulting, jealous, passive aggressive... .you know, whatever I'm not actually doing or feeling. Or he'll tell me how I feel about him - also thoughts/feelings I'm not actually having. I mean, I guess I get it. Someone has to be blamed for his bad mood... .but I'm not a good little scapegoat. I'm patient and understanding -- but not when it comes to abuse. When I see his bad mood isn't lifting or keeps returning throughout the day, I just leave (escape is more like it). Is there a better way to handle those situations without taking drastic action? I don't like to trigger his abandonment fears, but I can only take so much. Anyone have advice?

Why should we be good little scapegoats. If someone in being insulting, threatening, well the consequences of that is that other people don't like it.

If you were to be a good little scapegoat and let him manage his feelings by being insulting and rude, then you would be enabling his behavior. That isn't kind or loving.

When you refuse to engage with him during these times, you are letting him manage his own feelings. This is being kind and loving- allowing him to be responsible for his emotions.

And it is also honoring you- your boundaries. You don't have to be anyone's scapegoat. Not being present for this allows you to take care of you.

And if you trigger his abandonment fears- well those are his fears. You can't control his feelings. Our being triggered is our triggers. His emotions are his to manage.

I think your not being there, honoring your boundary is good!

Thank you Notwendy. You are right. I didn't mean to imply I wanted to be a better scapegoat. lol I wasn't sure what to make of his bizarre behavior today. He can go days without this much nonsense. And even when he tries, he usually gives up pretty quick because I don't take the bait.

As much as leaving is the best option in this case, it's one boundary I haven't had to use in awhile. Maybe months. Seldom does he STAY in this state for an entire day for no apparent reason. We had a decent weekend. Not perfect, but only minor blips of weirdness. None of it aimed directly at me, at least. So when he gets in this kind of mood, part of me believes it will pass... .if I can soothe him with validation or ignore him and ride it out. It's when he can't shake it and turns on me that I have trouble... I guess I have to realize sooner when it isn't going away.

He was relentless! Hostile toward me, at times at himself, back to me, then the cashier, the world, the drivers on the road, then back to my driving, my talking, my not talking, my face, my existence!

This was my day:

* I woke up with horrible allergies. He was polite and sympathetic at first. When I couldn't stop sneezing, it was my passive-aggressive way of telling him his house was too dusty. Followed by sarcastic apologies for not being a "rich man with a housekeeper".

* He asked me for a threesome. I normally laugh at this. When I didn't (because I was blowing my nose), I'm "too uptight" and can't take a joke.

* Now we're off to have lunch. I turn up the radio in the car because I like a song. I was "rude" and trying to "drown him out".

* Some lady honked and waved her hands as SHE was driving down the wrong side of the road! I got irritated which meant I was mad at him. Naturally. Twice he even opened the car door to jump out! "Take me home. I don't need this s**t!" When I go to make a U-turn to take him back home, I get "WHAT are you doing?" then "how about we try to be nice to each other today?" Oookay... .so I head back toward the restaurant.

* He asked to use my phone to check his facebook (his phone wasn't working). I hand him my phone and mistakenly mention he's on there a lot. He told me to stop "attacking" him. Demanded an apology. For what exactly?

* During lunch, he muttered comments under his breath about how I'm going to leave him and can't wait to be rid of him.

* After lunch, we went to the store to pick up his prescription. It wasn't ready, and they were unfriendly. I was sympathetic and asked him what time we should go back. He angrily and sarcastically apologized for "wasting" my day on him. Then proceeded to "I will leave you alone forever and you never have to deal with me again".

* Throughout I tried one of many methods that usually slows this crazy train down. But all attempts failed. Then my silence made him mad... ."Oh sure, NOW you have nothing to say?"

* By this point, I said I wanted to go home. A few hours into the day, and it wasn't passing. When I dropped him off, he asked me the football score. Totally random. I said I didn't know. I got a soft goodbye, then a big booming "BYE", then he muttered "what a B*TCH".

Color me baffled. No idea what could've triggered all that. Notwendy is right. Leaving was the kindest thing to do, for both our sakes. I'm back in my normal peaceful home, and he was forced to deal with his emotions on his own. A few hours later, he texted: "Sorry I was difficult & sorry we argued."  WE?   

Frustration of not getting a need met so he is fishing and upping the anti.

His need? A path for projection that you will push back on (an argument) that way he can transfer his unattributed bad mood on to you for being argumentative, as it will be your fault and not his, as he doesn't know why he is in a bad mood and needs to blame something/somebody.

Being present and passive gives him an endless medium onto which to redraft  his remedy.

Hence we need to make ourselves unavailable for this endless "frustration doodling". Close the book and put it out of harms way. Its not your problem, he wont own it as long as there is a possibility to pass it on.

That makes sense Waverider. It usually doesn't keep escalating like that. I say "usually" but I mean since I learned the tools here. Before that, it escalated like that constantly, only much MUCH worse.

Like I said, it seems to always be there in him, slowly cooking. Maybe I shouldn't be turning down the heat all the time and let him come to a full boil once in awhile?

You cant always stop frustration and anger, from coming out. The trick is to step aside, or deflect it, so that it doesn't fall on you

Removing yourself from that sort of abuse is the best thing you can do, as others have said already, and as I'm pretty sure you know.

It will trigger abandonment fears--no getting around that, either.

There are a couple things you can do to reduce the abandonment/dysregulation in how you go about leaving.

1. When you say you are leaving, make it about you, not about him. "I need some space." or "I can't handle being with you right now" instead of "I'm going away until you stop attacking me."

2. Set a clear return time, and perhaps something short about where you are going. Not "soon" or "later" or "in a bit", which can cause a new fight about how long that means.

"I'm taking a walk around the block, I'll be back in 20 minutes."
"I'm going out, I'll be back in an hour."
"I'm going to the store, I'll be back in 2 hours."

Then honor that time commitment. You will build trust, especially the more you honor this. Which means that he has a bit better clue that you going away for 2 hours is just that, not you leaving him forever.

3. Be ready to leave again if he launches back into you--you promised to return, you didn't promise to come back and be his emotional punching bag! Mostly likely leaving for longer the second time, as it wasn't enough time for him to calm down!

This is a relatively easy way to slightly reduce his abandonment fears... .but they still are his, and only he can deal with them.

I feel like I have gotten much better at this. I use to be in a lot of pain from these things.
Well hey, I am not those things and you can say what you want but I know what I am. You can believe what you want but your not going to make me think I am a piece of S*$& when I know I am not. Im not a liar. I am not evil. Im actually pretty awesome and a very good boyfriend.


Im not doing that but if you want to be upset and think that you can do whatever. I wont be accused of something I am not doing.

Ok I see now there is no point in talking to you. let me know when your back down to earth.

There is the door. You see that? You can leave any time. Oh you want to go? Ok then go!


This is what I say now and I am 100% proud of standing up for myself. She can rage all she wants but I wont be manipulated. Even threats of leaving don't phase me. If she leaves I know exactly what I will do. Sure I will be sad but I wont let her control my emotions through fear.

Hi Jessica, this doesn't change the fact that his feelings are his responsibility and you don't have to manage them, but I noticed you were dealing with allergies and this may help you spot potential times for issues.

I have noticed that anything that results in me being less emotionally present with my H can be interpreted by him as a personal rejection. Once triggered, he has shown similar behaviors. Most of the time it has nothing to do with him, but he sees it as a rejection, then he acts out. So something like allergies are not a big change, but can result in a subtle change in your mood. I think pwBPD are very sensitive to these changes, and being on the lookout for abandonment and rejection- come to this conclusion.

I didn't put the picture together because many of them made no sense. When I was pregnant and nauseated, it was pretty obvious why I was not as emotionally present. I assumed he could see this, but he interpreted this as rejection. If I was up all night with a baby and tired- rejection. Allergies and feeling a bit off would have been interpreted as rejection.

Our MC made a point about self care and not being emotionally present when feeling tired, or stressed or preoccupied. Now, I do a self check first- and decide if I am emotionally available to interact or not, and if not, I don't. I don't have expectations that he will see that it isn't him. I just know that what he thinks isn't my business or responsibility. If he makes something up about me, I can't control that. I just don't react emotionally and if I need to take time for myself- I do that.

Fortunately our MC made a point of not making up things about each other- and this is something we have both worked on. Yet, unless someone is willing to do that- I have to just accept that I can not change what someone else chooses to think .  

This is an important point, and we usually miss it as we are too busy defending ourselves and the trigger can be subtle and even the pwBPD wont consciously pick it. Not saying it is our fault, just that it is easier to accept if we know where it stems from

Hi Jessica,
Your description of the dialog brought a smile to my face because some of it is word for word of I've heard from my husband. It's incredibly frustrating to be the target of his black mood, especially when nothing you do helps. Sometimes I envision him like a cartoon character with a black cloud looming over his head and smile inwardly to myself.

I think the key to dealing with this is to remove yourself sooner, rather than later, and not give the volcano time to spew lava upon you. I experienced one of these episodes the other night. We were peacefully watching TV and then it started. I said nothing, just heard him out. Then, he glared at me and said, "Look at you. You're so angry!"

I almost laughed. His projection was so bizarre. He caught me so unaware at that moment and I had no time to even start having an emotion of any sort--I was just listening and watching and processing something that was so unexpected.

As Grey Kitty says, "No good will come of this," I realized that anything I said or did at that moment would be rife for misinterpretation and ascribing the most ill-intended motivations--so I simply said, "I've got to put something in the drier" and left his studio.

I've also found bathroom breaks to be a good distancing mechanism--even when I don't need them. Being in his presence at these times seems to get him so wound up, so if I keep making excuses to leave for a few minutes at a time, it stops him from accelerating the pent-up emotional charge.

And when he continues to lob nastiness at me, then I'm done. I'll sidestep an unkind remark here and there, but it's pointless for both of us for me to endure more than that.

I hadn't even considered allergies = abandonment. If I stretched my mind to its outer limits I could maybe see the connection between "achoo" and "you want to leave me". But not then. I couldn't be emotionally present. I could barely breathe. My eyes were burning and I couldn't stop sneezing - even long enough to stop and thank him for his countless "bless you"'s. I interrupted him repeatedly to blow my nose and kept leaving the room to get fresh tissues or throw out old ones. By the time my meds kicked in, I guess it was too late.

Cat - I'm a big fan of the bathroom breaks too. Also the laughing inward and the cartoon visualizations. It all helps.  |iiii 

I get what you're saying about leaving sooner. I thought it would pass... .as it normally does. I left as soon as I realized he wasn't getting over whatever was bothering him. He's been distant ever since and already cancelled some plans we had for next week. I hate this phase. First, the bad mood, then boundary, now the darkness. He's claiming depression, but all his co-workers say he's been in a good mood this week. Not sure who he is right now? Faking happy for them or faking depressed for me. All because the weather keeps fluctuating from hot to cold to summer here in late November and the flowers don't know if they're supposed to be pollinating or not?

It doesn't take much to trigger that self talk rejection cycle.

I was astounded to realize that when I was pregnant and puking in the bathroom and wasn't interested in sex at that moment meant I was personally rejecting my H, so I can believe that your sniffling and sneezing, not able to breathe meant abandonment.

Jessica, your day sounds like one of mine. Not all at once or in one day, but I can relate to ALL that behavior.

She would throw in things like "You need to be in a better mood. I hate babysitting. I did that with my ex."

We were going to visit family last weekend. She told me she was nervous and wanted to get a bottle of wine. I picked her up and already I knew it was going to be a stormy day. She was in a bad mood and asked if what she was wearing was fine. I said yes, it was just dinner.

She lost it. She felt that I misled her and it was supposed to be "formal". I said no, I never said that. My family is super chill and dont care what you wear.

We walk to the truck. She gets mad that I didn't hold the gate open for her. Get in the truck, she mutters about how she isnt looking forward to this. Get to store. I ask her if she is coming in to get wine. She gets mad about how I dont remember anything and that evidently I said she didnt need to get wine. Um... .ok, whatever. The drive there was completely silent as she was on her phone. Which was nice as she usually nitpicks about the music, my handling of the stick shift, the noise of the engine. She fell asleep. As we pull up, she suggests we be nice to each other.

The rest is history and can be found in the rest of my posts: in a nutshell, she proceeded to get royally drunk, lectured my family on politics, and then threw up. Acted sketchy the next morning with her phone. I told her I had told my family about the throwing up and they said not to worry and made a joke about it.  She scoffed and said of course, it wasnt a big deal (she threw up in the bed and I spent an hour cleaning the sheets. After she called me a s****y boyfriend). I dont know... .if it was me, I'd be mortified. So I tried to soothe her feelings. Which just irritated her.

Ride home was silent with her alluding that she wasnt happy and didnt think we were compatible.

That night a series of texts of how much she loved me.

I get what you're saying about leaving sooner. I thought it would pass... .as it normally does.

Yep. I get caught by surprise regularly by the bad mood that he suddenly springs upon me. I'm now realizing that part of my issue (of not being aware) is due to my Aspergers and that I don't catch the minimal cues as early as others might. So it's training me to be more hyper vigilant, which is kind of an icky place to find myself with a SO, but whatever... .with BPD all the "normal" rules of engagement are moot.

He's claiming depression, but all his co-workers say he's been in a good mood this week. Not sure who he is right now? Faking happy for them or faking depressed for me.


It's stunning how they can portray the most upbeat, magnanimous personas to acquaintances and strangers, while to us, they'll be a$$holes--and with no good reason (at least one that we can figure out).

And as far as your allergies, Jessica--I'm a big proponent of the desensitization shots. It's really a pain in the butt to go to the allergy doctor on a regular basis (twice weekly in the beginning), but over time, only once a month, and then after a few years, not at all. I used to have debilitating allergies and now--nothing! I can even weed whack, but I will take a Claritin, just as a preventative measure when I do.

Oh no, Recovering! Sounds like you had a fun-filled BPD Thanksgiving!  :)

Cat - what allergies? I was faking the whole time because I'm a rude, passive-aggressive abandoner who secretly wants a rich man with a housekeeper to dust more often.  lol lol lol

JRharvey - how does it go when you say "let me know when you're back down to earth"?    I think a statement like that would turn my bf into one angry Martian! I prefer "let's talk when things calm down". "Things", as in the situation, rather than "you" which is him personally. Takes the sting out a bit. I try to turn the heat down, wherever possible.

Whatever it was, he's back to himself now. He called me to vent 5 times the other night over some drama he created with a friend, but my guess is he needed a new target to release his venom on since I took a step back. Then last night I didn't respond fast enough to a text. Then I got series of ugly ones. I called him back, and he was happy again. Life in BPD Land. Good times!

I have no advice since I go through the exact situations you have described, but I can absolutely sympathize with you. Some of the crazy no-win situations I deal with... .

1. My driving. Too slow. Why did I change lanes? Why didn't I speed up so I can make the green light? Why did I stay behind the "slow" car? And when he's really off, why do I hug the left side of the lane? Now, mind you, I've never swerved out of my lane or even driven on the line, as there's no "thump-thump-thump" of the lane dividers. I truly believe that when he's "off", he's truly not all here. At times, he literally jumps out of the car as soon as we get to the destination and says "your driving makes me crazy. I can't stand being in a car with you!"
This is coming from a man who has lost his license in the past for driving 120 mph and brags about it. Also, during the last week, he's almost driven through 2 red lights ( I had to tell him to stop) and actually ran a red light with myself and adult daughter in the car, with NO remorse!

2. My talking. Since vacations send my H over the edge, he started dysregulating the minute we started out driving on our last trip.  He was driving, but still found things wrong with me or my actions. So, I stopped talking to him. Not rudely, I'd answer if he asked me a question, but I didn't start a conversation. Half way through the trip, he got some to-go food so I was driving while he ate. I got the "You're hugging the left side" routine along with heavy sighs and muttering, and finally I told him to stop acting up. Then I get,"When I want you to talk, you don't. Then when I don't want you to talk, you can't shut up!"

That statement, to me, sums up his entire personality. It's all about him. Everyone has to do things his way when he wants it done. Honestly, I don't know if there is any solution. My H is on medication, has completed an anger management course, and now sees a therapist twice a month. What else can be done?

maryy16 - I've heard all the same... .and from someone who has a wreck at least twice a year!


Today was a repeat of last Sunday. I had to leave again. I don't know what else to do. After I left, he went all day without bothering me, then I got this text: "Slept all day. This day sucked. Depressed."

I'm having a hard time replying so I haven't yet. I feel like I should say something, but nothing feels right. He was rude and unbearable - again. I'm not feeling super compassionate. Sure, I feel bad he is depressed AND that his day sucked, but I can't take his dark moods with the meanness and name-calling. Right now, I feel like going radio silence, but not sure if that's the right thing to do or not. Double rejection?

Jessica-
Your question- what to do as he might feel rejected still is about his feelings. A decision based on how he might feel- is about managing his feelings for him- so he doesn't feel too bad- poor thing can't manage his own feelings.

That is treating him like he is incapable. To some extent- he does have difficulty managing his feelings. I think it is reasonable for anyone to not want to hurt someone's feelings deliberately- but to make a decision about managing someone's feelings can cross the line to caretaking.

If the goal is to manage our own feelings- and let other's manage their own feelings- then, our job is to take care of ours. His feelings are his.

So, the answer to your question lies with you- if you are not feeling up to replying- then honor your feelings. If you are not feeling up to replying- but you do it to manage his feelings- then you are not taking care of your own.

He's a big boy. He acted out on you- called you names, and was unpleasant. There are consequences to this- we learn them in kindergarten. If you are mean to your friends, then your friends won't want to play with you.

You aren't abandoning him. There has been no talk of break up on your part. But so long as he can be mean to you and not risk you not wanting to play with him, he doesn't learn to not do this. Unless he feels the consequences of his actions, he isn't likely to be motivated to change if that was even possible.

This is not likely to be the last of the texts. But you can reply from your perspective when you choose to. Don't use the word "you" or make it about him. A reply- I am sorry you had a bad day. I am feeling pretty down myself. I love you, but I need some time to nurse my own hurt feelings. Will talk to you tomorrow ( it's important to have a time limit on this- like time out for a kid, not indefinitely). Then hold to your boundary. Don't forget extinction bursts- this might get worse before it gets better.

IMHO, I don't think these kinds of things are solved by talking. When he is feeling calm, he can feel remorseful, but when dysregulated, he's probably not in control. So, when he does that- you take care of yourself, get out of the range of verbal output, for a day or two. This can take some practice,  but it can make a difference for you, and also possibly give him the message that you aren't going to be an audience for that- but the primary focus is on you- take care of you.

Hi Jessica,
Sorry you're enduring the "dark moods" and nastiness. My husband is in a similar mood, although he's been holding back from being verbally aggressive, but I can see it's just below the surface. I'm not walking on eggshells, but I've been kind, validating and I have refrained from asking too much about his feelings.

I find that my best strategy is to occupy myself in tasks and to check in regularly with him, but remove myself quickly so there's no time for the ugly behavior to manifest. I leave while I'm still interesting to him--so that he wants more. (An animal training strategy that seems to work well with him.)

It really sucks when he's in one of his black moods and I have to be in his presence--like when we drove to a restaurant tonight. I tried a variety of conversational gambits and I got nothing as a reply. I found myself starting to get irritated--he gets really pissed off if he says something and I don't respond--yet seems to feel that it's perfectly fine for him to do the same thing. Lots of times I don't respond because I think he's going to say something else and I don't want to interrupt--then he might say, "Hello? It's like I'm talking to myself!"

So he definitely is skilled at being irritating. I think he wants me to get pissed off so I'll share his black mood with him. So I deliberately stay cheerful and if he doesn't want to talk to me, I'll just occupy my mind elsewhere until he asks me what I'm thinking. That too is so one-sided. I'm supposed to tell him what I'm thinking, but if I ask him the same question, he'll say either: "Not much" or "Nothing."

Life with these pwBPD is such a f*ing joyfest!

Reading this stories just keeps reminding me of things:

We went for dinner one night. She was complaining about my driving and the music. She was in a fine mood. As we're literally pulling into the parking spot, she opens her door and just about jumps out. I slammed to a stop and looked at her. Knowing that I couldnt "say" anything without starting a fight, I sighed.

My sighing would cause so much anger for her. She started getting angry with me, telling me she hated it when I sighed or rolled my eyes.

So, rather than verbally asking her what the heck she was trying to do while I was driving, I reacted by sighing. Which just caused another issue in itself. We stood in the parking lot, on the verge of arguing. I was tempted to say screw it, let's leave and just drop her off at home. But I knew that would cause a fight. So we went in and had an awkward dinner. She was on her phone most of the time (something that she accused me of doing all the time when we first started dating which wasnt true at all) and we finally talked about what had happened. Had a semi-enjoyable evening after that.

So many nights/days with her where I was just wondering "What did I do? Why is she mad at me?"

Ugh... .I hated it.

The last two weeks have provided some peace. Like I said elsewhere, my counselor told me that once I was removed from the situation, my heart would start to open again. I still find myself on edge however and I just keep trying to heal. I wish it didnt take so long :)

Staying "centered" can be a challenge at times. I've had dinners and car rides like you describe. Leaving is always my first instinct, but then I worry about the consequences if I do, based on past experiences - the "go ahead, f-off", the accusations, the silent treatment, or the "we should break up" texts... .The aftermath is always messy. But sometimes, so is staying. It's not like he can always calm down enough in time to enjoy the moment again... .so it's a gamble. In those situations, my anxiety increases as I weigh my options and wonder which way things will go and deciding which is worse - staying and being uncomfortable (hoping his mood passes), or leaving and taking my chances with door #1, 2, 3... .

Anxiety. Yes. I was getting run down emotionally and mentally. Physically, it was catching up. My stomach was always upset. My blood pressure was through the roof. So many mornings I walked to work, either following a fight the night before or prior to getting a series of texts, with the realization that this was going to kill me. I either needed to take control (which I never could accomplish) or I had to leave. Just never knowing what kind of mood she was in when I saw her was brutal. I ended up hating going to her house. I looked forward to time by myself.

Looking forward to time alone is what saved me! Instead of twisting myself into knots thinking how to get thru to him to make things better after a conflict, I started thinking of all the other things I could do by myself. I used to long to spend more time with him so I would stay no matter how bad things got, foolishly thinking if I could just say the right words I'll be back in his loving arms again, and oh what good times we'll have. Once I got over that, I was free.  :)

I can relate a little. She would always call me or text me to apologize. Once I left her house, it would inevitably come hours later.  I think the biggest/hardest thing I realized was that she will never change. And there is no sense in a relationship. Also, I dont trust her anymore. Once that is gone, I'm gone. My counselor even asked me yesterday ":)o you really think she'll have this epiphany and completely change? She won't."

Sounds like you're doing really well  

Yes, I know all about the apology texts - which usually come after a few bitter ones. Sometimes they have to spew out the bad stuff to feel better so they can see clearly again. I have learned to ignore the ugly texts - they don't affect me like they used to because I know it's coming from a dark place and he won't mean it (or even remember saying it), once he's leveled off.

I agree that trust is major in any relationship. My trust has been broken in the past, but now it's somewhat repaired and at least semi-functional - like a coffee mug glued back together. I only occasionally feel the cracks.   

I get what your counselor is saying, but I'm an optimist so I believe in epiphanies. I believe people can and do change. All the time. Maybe not fundamentally or all at once, but in small, subtle ways. I have a-ha moments all the time! Of course, personal growth takes dedication, time, effort, commitment, and no one can be forced to change by another. But along the lines of "for every action, there is a reaction"---> I noticed that as I changed some of my behaviors/reactions, his began to change too. Our mug grows stronger, making the cracks less and less noticeable.  *)

I get that. I guess I'm protecting myself by believing otherwise. There were too many times where I thought she would change (I did notice she made an effort once to be kinder), but the big problem with her is the alcohol. I dont know if she's cooled down since we split. But she was hitting it very hard right before we broke up. She didnt even remember breaking up with me the final night.

It was only 3 months. I know why I was so attracted and fell so hard. If we had been together longer, maybe I would believe in change. I hate to say it however, after three months, it's not worth it. Too many hurtful things were said, too many suspicions, etc.

I admire your optimism though. I really do. I got jaded somewhere down the road. A month ago, I would have agreed with you 100%.

Substance abuse would be difficult enough - add in a disorder like this - I can't imagine. In 3 months you probably endured a lot, but at least not for long. I'm sorry you had to go thru that, but I am optimistic you will heal from it!    I hope you are able to learn from it - about yourself and what you want for your future - and maybe even look back on it and be grateful for it one day - because these relationships give us plenty of opportunities to grow and heal. I've been able to heal old wounds from previous relationships because of this one. So in that way, it's been a blessing.

If I weren't already so invested, I probably would've left too. I just didn't catch the red flags in time. I was a year in before I realized something was 'off'. Then a few years later before I realized I was living a nightmare. Then another few years later I discovered BPD, and that's when things slowly began to shift. I definitely understand anyone wanting off this ride! My relationship has improved since -- not 100%, but enough to still want to try. I do love this poor sick man... .even though I know my life would be easier if I didn't. I think that's the dilemma many nons face.

Jessica - I feel like I could have written your posts - reading them is like seeing into my world. 

I face that exact dilemma that my life would be easier without him but I do love him.  I know he loves me too and he is hurting when he dysregulates.  My relationship has improved but it not even close to 100% and I keep trying.  But it does take its toll.  Reading your posts gives me hope and I have a tremendous amount of respect for you.  Thank you for sharing 

Is this a breakup text? Can't tell. He's been weird all week.

"It has been a hard week. I miss you but am sick of us arguing. It's probably not a fair assessment but that's how I feel. My depression probably doesn't help. Sorry."

Maybe I'm tripping and he sent it because it's Friday and we normally get together on weekends - so he's letting me know not to come over. Or maybe it's for good?

The last 2 weekends were fine - except Sundays. I had to leave early both times (normally stay until Monday mornings). This is why I don't like to use that boundary. I can't stay when he keeps trying to pick a fight, but I know it takes weeks for him to get over it. Weirds him out. Every time. Silence, gloominess, awkwardness... .Then he starts thinking we argue "all the time", even though it's pretty rare. I get how his messed up brain works. I just don't like him rearranging the facts to fit his moods.

He's been distant all week - came over once to use my bathroom, wouldn't look at me or say much, gave me a quick peck on the cheek, then peeled out of my driveway like a madman! I don't know what's wrong with him. Or what to say to him right now... .or if I should say anything... .or let him work it out in his head.

I don't think we'll actually break up, but I do think he is contemplating it at THIS moment. Been there, done that. I don't want to give him a reason - anything I say at this point CAN and WILL be used against me. I responded with only "ok, sorry". I'm trying not to be mad at him. What an unnecessary waste of time and energy this is. Feels like this is what he does to try to get me back in control or something.

Meanwhile, here I sit, wondering if this is it and if I should expect the "we need to talk" call. 

Jessica - I totally understand what you are feeling at the moment - I know that anything I say can and will be used against me.   It is easy to read too much into texts like that - I do the same thing.  It is such an unnecessary waste of time and energy.  It is Friday night - we should be home relaxing instead of me wondering how long this episode is going to last. 

I also have had to deal with abrupt mood swings on Sundays - it has been months since we had a nice weekend.    I really wish I had words of advice or wisdom.  I just know how you feel.

Thanks coworkerfriend.   Helps to know I'm not alone... .or crazy. Sorry you are going thru the same.

I'd say I was reading too much into it too, except I've seen this before. His attitude toward me all week, and then this text. He called awhile ago but he was muttering under his breath. I told him I don't know what he's saying so he said he had to go and hung up. Then I had dinner with a mutual friend. She said he's been yelling and angry all week, and everyone at his office is avoiding him. He told someone I was about to break up with him. I swear, he just makes things up in his head?  If he's saying that, he's very likely thinking of pulling the plug first. Abandon me before I abandon him. Ridiculous. I feel sorry he does this to himself. And to me. I'm just going to lay low and go enjoy my weekend. Hope you can do the same! 

I'd call it an "I'm unfit company for human consumption, please steer clear" text instead of a breakup text.

The best thing you can do is plan a weekend you will enjoy, most likely well away from him!

'Tho if you chase after him in this mood, you might get a breakup text next... .

Good advice GK, as always.  |iiii  I'll leave him alone.

Thing is, I've actually gotten texts like that before - very straight up: "I'm not going to be good company tonight. Can we do something another night?" I'm ok with that. We all have those days. I appreciate him not subjecting me to his misery! But this text shifts the blame. I'm sick of the "we" or "us" arguing crap. There's no "we". I'm not provoking or engaging in any arguments. If it makes him feel better to blame me, ok, as long as he doesn't later expect me to apologize for something I haven't done. When he comes back from whatever planet he's on, I'll just try to move forward.

Well, now he's flirting with women all over facebook. Most haven't replied or they did the "aww thanks" thing to his unsolicited compliments. One is loving the attention. Last comment to her was his cell phone# - so now I guess they're texting? Guess he doesn't realize these women are mutual "friends" so lucky me, I got to see it all as I was scrolling. He's not too tech savvy.
 
I don't think this particular woman is the reason for his distance. She's just the one who jumped on it. She's a distraction. This is what he does when he thinks I'm about to leave him: desperately runs looking for a backup, just in case. But it hurts all the same.

What do I do? I can't reach out to him to assure him I didn't want to break up in the first place. I can't call him out if he's looking for a reason to justify a break up. I can't call her out because I barely know her, and she's likely to tell him if I contact her. This isn't about her anyway. Or any other woman. It's his crazy mood swings and mixed up thoughts! I can only hope he doesn't try to meet up with anyone over the weekend. There's no coming back from that.

Ugh. I hate this.

Jessica- I think this is something that is scary when we want to hang on to a relationship- and we are all here to improve ours. Dysfunction in a couple "fits" in a way- we have patterns that repeat themselves and they are in some way a comfortable fit to both our issues or it wouldn't be a situation we were both in. But if this was a happy situation for us- we wouldn't be here wanting to change it in some way.

I think the one who wants the change is the one who is motivated to do the personal work to do that. Change in a relationship can start with us- but it is also a risk. The familiar patterns between people change when one person changes- and that isn't always comfortable for the other person who sought out dysfunction as a way to cope with their own issues. When one person changes- the other person can become uncomfortable- and then he/she is faced with choices and changes themselves.

One of the things that keeps us in these patterns is fear. We don't want to risk losing the relationship or the other person. But we also come here because the dysfunction is not a happy situation for us. We want to change the situation. We want them to change. Well, we can want it, but we don't have control over another person, just ourselves. This is the risk- if we change and the dynamics become different- uncomfortable for the pwBPD- such as we walk away and leave them to deal with their own emotions, (instead of managing them by appeasing, participating in the drama, and anger that serves as an outlet) then they may struggle. At this point, we don't control what behavior they choose to manage their feelings. If they have been relying on us for a long time, then they may escalate the behaviors towards us, or find some other way. Some may even agree to seek help- who knows. But that is a scary thing for us if we tend to be caretakers and fixers.

Can a relationship survive this change? I think this is where the unpredictability comes in- we don't know for sure. But some have and some have not. I think what brings nons to the point of wanting to change is that the personal toll of the dysfunction is high enough that we don't want to do it anymore. We want the relationship, but are tired of participating in the dysfunction. But the partner has choices too- to adapt to the new situation or to continue the dysfunction with someone else.

This is what changed for you- you decided not to be the target of your boyfriend's bad feelings. But this was working for him in some way. So long as he had you to blame or be angry at- he had a way to manage the feelings. You did what was best for you- decide not to be the target, but the feelings he has are still there. To manage them- he is going to use the tools he has. He hasn't learned new ones yet- but so long as he had you as a manager- there was no need to learn anything different. So, he is feeling bad and using the management tools he has now.

He may feel insecure- so getting attention from women on FB is a way to bolster his hurt ego. I know this is hard to resist stepping in to soothe or fix the situation. However, he has choices too. He knows that taking this too far risks the relationship. You can't control his choices. All you can do is make your decision what to do if he "takes it too far".

I think a way to cope with this is self care- go do something really nice for you. If you are used to spending your weekends with him- then think- a whole weekend- take a walk in a park, browse a bookstore, decorate your house for the holidays. Buy yourself some cheerful flowers. Call a friend to do something. See that movie you want to see. Also think about your boundaries. What is "too far" for you? Be clear about that. Sometimes if a person is testing the boundaries- they can go right up to the line.

It reminds me of when the kids were little and we went to the public pool. The lifeguard would tell all the kids to stay out of the water for pool breaks. Well they stood there with their little toes right at the edge- hanging over slightly. A few oppositional ones would quickly stick a foot in and out in front of the lifeguard and say but I'm not " all in" the water- just my foot!" Occasionally a defiant child would get in the water, or fall in when pushing the boundary- and that is where the lifeguard would invoke the consequences and make that child stay out of the pool for a bit. Kids with repeated or serious misbehaviors would not be allowed to use the pool at all. The kids all knew what boundary not to cross, even if they went right up to the line. I sometimes think people who test boundaries act in a similar way.

I think it is important for you to know what the boundary is between testing it ( maybe flirting on FB) and going too far ( meeting the person, being physical with them- know that is the line for you).

This is tough, but I think if he values the relationship, he will hopefully not cross that line.

Can someone explain to me the "abandonment fear" a bit more clearly. Is it a true fear of leaving or does it have to do with the BPD persons ability to maintain meaningful relationships? When we argue she is always doing one of two things:     Throwing me out, as in asking me to move out OR she will say things like "if I'm such a bad person then why don't you leave me?" However, my therapist related her inability to maintain a stable relationship with a therapist ( 4 therapists in 4 years) is a way to show her "fear of abandonment"

I'm just a bit confused

Flirting with a bunch of women on facebook where they can all see each other sounds like acting out.

You already knew he was stressed, so doing things like that to cope kinda fits.

Jessica, do you know what your limits are? There is quite a range of online flirting, in person flirting, meeting in person, casual sex, an affair/relationship... .

Do you want to remind him of what your limits might be, or ask him "WTF is all this flirting?" Well, I'm half-kidding. That's sure not using the best communication tools... .if you do want to address it directly.

Hi taty,

One would imagine a fear of abandonment being shown as overly people pleasing ( a characteristic of co-dependency- actually both the pwBPD and the non partner can have co-dependent traits).

But it shows itself in different ways. The pushing away is sort of a "leave you before you leave me" way of controlling the fear. When you argue, she may decide to toss you out, leave you, out of fear you are doing that to her.

I think GK is right about the acting out- and on FB in front of you. He wants you to see it.

I would think that someone in a relationship who is cheating would be sneaky about it- not want you to know.

As to reminding him of the boundary- I think that is a good idea but only if you are willing to enforce it. Saying you want an exclusive relationship and then, taking him back if he cheats isn't holding that boundary.

What he has done with the fuzzy "maybe I might have broken up with you but not clear " text is it leaves you in the dark. If you were to date someone else now, he'd say "you are cheating". If he meets one of those women " I thought we were broken up, I'm not cheating".

If you confront him, it is about you, not him.

Hi- I am confused about the text. Are we still a couple? If so, I would want that to be exclusive. I noticed you gave X your number on Facebook. Please clarify our status to me so I am not confused. Did you break up with me?

Love, Jessica.

Thank you, thank you! I needed to chill - got a good night's sleep then went shopping and had lunch with a friend. As soon as I got home he called like nothing happened. I'm glad I got out and stopped obsessing/worrying about all the what-if's. I don't like living 'there'. It's not healthy. I'd like to disable this panic button in me. Disabled my FB app from my phone too. Too easy to get on scroll mindlessly. Social media is a dangerous place for relationships, BPD or no.

My boundaries are clear - physical contact is what I consider cheating. I'll address when/if that actually happens. I am guilty of flirting myself. I don't do it deliberately, but it's in me. The only difference is I am more aware in type. And on a public forum like Facebook. In person it's harder to catch ourselves. There's no backspace button in real life lol 

I don't know if it was meant for my eyes or not. I wasn't giving him attention all week and he panics without it. I think that's what this was - attention-seeking (hers positively, mine negatively). Maybe ignoring it would lessen it. Can't control her, but I can control whether I give him the negative attention he was hoping for. Besides, asking him not to do something is like asking a child not to touch a hot stove...

GK - Even if I converted this to BPD-speak, he would just say, "Yeah I'm a flirt." Like... so what?

I know he is, and it's mostly harmless. A few weeks ago it probably wouldn't bother me, but when he's pushing me away like yesterday, my imagination starts to runs wild. I'm a little guilty of 'harmless flirting'. I try to be aware of it - I never want to make him feel insecure (or another woman who thinks I'm being too friendly with her SO). I know how that feels. Funny thing is, he has accused me of flirting on FB before - I could see it from his view after he pointed it out, but he didn't understand these were inside jokes - and with my COUSIN!  lol

It's good that you reached out here for support while your thoughts were going crazy. I think many of us know that feeling. Recognizing that it's our fears talking helps us to keep perspective and not be reactive. Having time to ourselves can be a good thing- you might want to schedule a "Jessica " weekend once in a while rather than make it a reaction to your boyfriends behavior. He did manage on his own- hopefully the FB flirting was all it took. But also - some "me" time can let you get centered too.

As to flirting- sometimes it's harmless- sometimes hurtful. But if the boundary between FB flirting and what is unacceptable to you is clear to him- then he will be aware of that when he does choose to flirt.

Over the years- flirting has lost its appeal.  I'm married for one, but it also makes me uncomfortable to be the object of it. I don't think I'd like it if my H did it. But I know I can't control what he does. Fidelity though is a strong boundary- I think we are both clear on that.

 |iiii Knowing where your boundaries are... .and just taking a chill pill when he's not to them yet is excellent! Glad we could help talk you off that ledge  :)

And I'm really glad that he managed to get over whatever was bugging him and come back down to earth with you, Jessica!


That would be a good answer if it was just "normal" flirting on his part.

OTOH, what you described was him suddenly flirting with anybody he could reach on facebook. Both a change from previous behavior and pretty excessive. (And I'd note, not too helpful in taking things farther with any of these women, as I expect they could all see the sudden scattershot flirting as well, and have the same WTF? question)

But like you said, he'd deny it, rather than acknowledging anything.

Anyways, there is room for differences of opinion about flirting. Personally... .my stbexwife is a world-class flirt. I'm shy enough that I seldom manage, but I've got a few friends that I occasionally flirt with, and we both know it is harmless fun. The question of how harmless flirting really is depends on the intent and what happens next.

Harmless is just doing it for the fun of the game, enjoying the game with somebody else. The only danger here is that your flirting target might be interested in more than the game, making you a tease instead of a flirt.

Flirting with somebody else to make your girlfriend notice, get jealous, and react isn't so harmless. I doubt your bf was very aware this was what he did... .but he did... .and it worked, you noticed. Fortunately, you didn't take the bait and blow up at him, and all is good now.

Flirting with the goal of getting somebody in bed is a whole 'nuther game. (Safe if both parties are available... .not your situation!)

Oops, I missed the best part here:


Your panic button is the fear that he will cheat on you, right?

I don't know your history or his well enough to advise you on how to deal with this. How does the saying go? Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that everybody ISN'T out to get you!

Have you been cheated on in the past? (By him, or prior partners?) Or did cheating tear apart your parents, or something similar?
Has he cheated in the past? (Either on you, or on prior partners?)

Your own irrational fear of being cheated on is something you can and should work on. Disconnecting your own buttons like that is hard but important work.

If your bf really is likely to cheat on you, being fearful, jealous, or suspicious wouldn't be irrational at all, and trying to stuff and deny those feelings will only get you into more trouble.

Thank you NotWendy and Grey Kitty. It is helpful to process this out with people who understand.

I know with BPD flirting is more likely to turn harmful. This is my fear. He has flirted in the past catching a few psychos in his snare. Then regretted it. Sometimes he broke up with me when he thought he found greener grass elsewhere. This was 3 years ago before I knew about BPD when we argued intensely and often. But still, I have those fears of a repeat.

As recent as a few weeks ago, he finally apologized for that. He is going out of town next month and plans to visit an ex and her husband while there. I was surprised by how graceful he was in telling me. He said he knows he's given me good reason to worry and be jealous in the past and assured me he's not interested in anything but catching up with an old friend, probably just dinner with her AND her husband. I understood, thanked him for caring about my feelings, and agreed that he's given me no reason to be concerned in a long time. I added that sometimes it is hard to not go back to that time when anytime another woman came along or batted his eyes at him, our r/s went south. He said "fair enough, and I'm sorry I hurt you. I don't want us to go there again either."

My fears aren't completely irrational. He hasn't cheated, per se. What he has done in the past is cause trouble in our r/s enough to escalate a breakup in order to pursue someone else. Each time it was a disaster. 2 became stalkers and he was close to filing a police report on one, and the others weren't interested in him - he just misread the flirtation. Like I said, since learning about BPD, there's been nothing like this or a breakup since.

And yes, I've been cheated on in the past by others, but I made peace with that a long time ago. I was married to a decent guy for 12 years. There was no cheating or animosity, we just went our separate ways - he dates men now. So my button is about my current boyfriend. I can forgive, but I can't entirely forget the past.

Yeah, your fears are valid here. Even if he forces a breakup before getting into a trainwreck relationship with a nutjob instead of cheating, you have something very real to fear.

That he now sees what he did and even apologized for it is encouraging. Especially how he is talking about visiting his ex.

You are doing a good job of facing your fears.

People tend to live up to our expectations somehow. I think it is more a result of subtle non-verbal communications than some sort of magic. But sometimes trusting somebody is just what they need to act in a trustworthy way, if that makes sense.

You decided you could trust him enough with this attack of facebook flirting. You didn't give him a "reason" to break up with you and do something with the woman who now has his number... .if she had called. (And given the context, I'd guess that an emotionally healthy woman wouldn't have called, or wouldn't have taken the flirting farther... .so that leaves the possibility of another nutjob pursuing him  )

As you said... .I'm sure you can imagine how you would have blown this thing sky-high with him three years ago, before you knew about BPD!

I'd say she's just lonely, or possibly a psycho. Pretty girl, but alone on a Friday night, curled up with her cats and flirting with someone else's boyfriend. She knows we are dating. We all work in the same field. She has seen us together and even "liked" a picture of us a month ago where his post was obvious we were a couple. It's a nice picture, and even in his comments to others he said he's "a lucky guy". But who knows the story he's now telling her in private. Maybe that we "argue all the time". This would open the door... .

But he invited me over last night. He was definitely 'off'. I acted as if nothing was different, and after a few hours, he was himself again. This morning he woke up overwhelmed with stress, thinking about the work week and all the things he had to do. I told him I had some things to do today too, gave him a big hug, then got ready to leave... .before anything could go wrong! I took my time to watch for any cues, but he seemed ok. Still a little distant, but somewhat normal. I'm hoping by next weekend, things will be back to normal.

Jessica - I think you have a good handle on your fears and not letting them create drama in the relationship.

From your boyfriend's behavior, it seems to me he does know the boundary, but like the kid at the pool- he is the one who is going to stick his toes over the edge of the pool and when the lifeguard stares at him, say " see I didn't go IN the pool".  He triggered your fear, maybe expecting you to engage in drama with him. But you didn't and the episode blew over. I might even imagine that the flirting on FB might diminish in time as you don't react to it- if part of the reason is to stir up drama so he can let anger out at you. If not, then I think so long as his toes are over the edge, but he doesn't go in the pool, he knows the boundary.

As to the concern he may end up with someone crazy- that would be his issue. I don't think we can protect someone else- a grown adult- from that choice. I used to fear my H would find someone else. But as I read more about relationships- how we attract someone who matches us and our tendencies to recreate issues in relationships, I understood that we both have choices. If it was my choice to grow, emotionally and be less dysfunctional, he had the choice to stay with me or not. That is scary. But he chose to stay with me. I also have several friends my age whose H's did cheat on them, and I saw how they coped. In many cases the cheating was about the person who cheated, not the partner. I realized that these choices were not something I had control over, so I let go of the feeling that I could control it. All I could do is control my side of things.

You are interacting with your BF in a different way- less drama, less reactivity. And he is still choosing you.

Thank you. I appreciate your support and for the great analogy. I wish he would keep his toes a little further from the edge of the pool and go sit somewhere safer. I know I can't control that, just wishful thinking. As long as there's this old familiar, uncomfortable tension between us, and as long as lonely girl sticks around, the harder it will be to control my panic button. I'm working on it. Trying not to worry about the outcome. But he doesn't come close to emotionally stable right now. So I'm a bit on edge. I'm going to do some house chores and see if that helps. This is triggering my OCD, but at least I will be productive.  *)

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