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My big picture:  To create areas of normalcy where more traditional values can be taught to kids and they can have some time free of dysfunction. 

Having daily family devotions as been a stabilizing influence for our family.  My wife used to be a fan of them, but lately has become very passive aggressive about them.  Saying she likes them while at the same time causing a ruckus and "settling scores". 

It is likely that she understands I rarely walk away from conflict close to family devotions, so she can get off some "free shots".


This is an issue my P and I have been discussing and today was first time I had to use any of the strategies.  Devotions had started and my wife came in and started complaining about the state of the kitchen... .asking me "why this was out" or "why something was on the counter"

All the kids were assembled, Bibles out.  So, basically she was interrupting and was sort of berating me about things in front of the kids.

So... .I got to put into use what P and I have practiced.  And it worked.

I said "FF wife, I can talk to you about that after devotions.  Right now, it's time for devotions."  Spoken  directly... .with some authority.

Of course (as predicted) she yipped back.

Becoming more authoritarian, "This is inappropriate to talk about right now.  We can talk about this later, after devotions."

There was a little bit of yipping coming back

"FF wife, this is inappropriate to talk about right now.  Come join devotions."

She briefly walks from the room... .walks back in a different person and joined devotions... .like nothing happened.

I got some weird PA texts as she was going to work.  I acknowledged the "healthy part" and accepted thanks for something.  Totally ignored the rest.

Looking forward to discussing with P.

My understanding of the lesson P is teaching is that I need to use many many less words... .get right to the point.  Once the issue is over.  Drop it.

The point is to have family devotions.   There is a secondary point of teaching my kids about appropriate behavior.

Sigh. 

FF

Right now my biggest question for the P is if I just have to accept that many of my interactions like this are going to sound "paternal".  Like I'm correcting a child throwing a tantrum.

I suspect she will say I have to move on and accept it and to make sure an use this tool rarely.

Any other thoughts or questions you guys have from reading this.

It came up with P a few weeks ago as I asked how to "handle her" when walking away was no so easy.

FF

Would it help to choose times when everyone--but especially your wife--is likely to be relaxed and not rushed? Like maybe at the beginning of a long holiday weekend rather than nearing its end?

Devotions are at 730 on weekday mornings.  Imagine a 30 minute long breakfast where we read and talk.  We normally start gathering around 720 or so.  Goal is to have everything you need (food, drink, Bible) so you can stay sitting down during devotions.

While she would likely deny it now... .she is the one that picked the time and set up the morning routine around this.

So... the incident I posted about happened this morning.  

Wife had already been in kitchen a time or two.  She was really the only one missing from devotions.  735 was when she started her "scene".  By 740 she was sitting with us having devotions like nothing ever happened.

FF

I would discuss with your P the aspect of the kids being present around these interactions.  While it's good to teach your kids healthy conflict resolution by them observing how you resolve issues with your wife, you do want to be wary of coming across as paternal and treating your wife like a child.  That would be a lousy lesson for the kids to learn.  Other than concern, I think you did a fine job.  You'll never change how your wife thinks, so you did well working with what's within your control.

 
We have talked some about this before... .and I do want to make sure I understand her point correctly.

I would characterize her advice as being "effective" versus "being right". 

So... .do I want to have "effective" family devotion times or do I want to spend the time pleading with my wife to be reasonable.

She has also introduced me to the idea of picking "less dysfunction".

So... .it's horrible to have my wife professing to "obey" her husband and be the perfect Christian wife, yet in reality she is choosing to undermine and devalue me in public.

Having a paternalistic husband is "less bad" than what she is presenting and it quickly gets us past conflict and to devotions.


That being said:

I'm open to other ideas.  What would you guys have said that would have been less paternalistic?

FF

I would just leave out judgmental words like "inappropriate" to characterize your wife's choice of discussion in front of the kids.  Just stick with, "We can talk about this after devotions." like you did in the first response.  It's also a reminder to your wife that you are not dismissing her desire to talk about something else, but rather that it can wait until after the very important devotions family time.

Maybe instead of "inappropriate"
Frame the expectations out loud for all to hear:

Devotional Time is a time when we put all other individual worries aside and devote it to praising God together as a family.  All other worries will need to be addressed after this important time.

Idk, or frame it how you like.
Just thinking that directing her behavior towards positive purpose/expectation more helpful than a reprimand.

 
Good points... .

I did "escalate" things... .that was purposeful. 

I'll certainly discuss the pros and cons of that.

FF

Nice suggestions from HopefulDad and Sunfl0wer! With these simple changes, the dialogue you outline above sounds very good to me. Sounds as though things continue to improve.

I'm guessing your kids aren't being kept up too late at night these days? So that everyone is well rested enough to be able to do devotions first thing in the morning?

 

Bed times have been relatively stable through the school week.  It's been a month or so since kids were falling asleep at devotions.

FF

Correcting isn't the important part.

The key with boundary enforcement is action action and results, NOT reasons, and absolutely not convincing your wife of the reasons, need, agreement, or anything!

Your boundary: You won't let your wife turn devotions into a forum for her to berate you.

You don't have to convince her that it is inappropriate. You don't have to correct her. Doing so is more "paternal" or even patronizing.

Best practice would be to do less--simply refuse to let the devotions go off topic, no need to explain why, or anything!