BPDFamily.com

So the BPD in my life is my SIL.  Like what seems common when I've read other people's stories, my brother who married her is very introverted.  He was always introverted.  Since he got married, he's become even more withdrawn from the family. When he isn't doing little tasks for her, he withdraws and takes a nap. 

When they first got married, he took on a lot of flying monkey jobs for her.  But for awhile, I think he's backed off from that and he leaves her to work out her own conflicts.  She's had some rage and pretty ugly manipulations directed at my elderly mom over the years.  And when my mom tells me about it, I ask, "So where was your son when this was happening?"

"He was standing right there."
"He didn't say anything?"
"Nope."
Of course, her response is to feel sorry for him rather than think about protecting her own boundaries.

On top of this, several years ago, she sent a series of crazy emails to me.  And topped it off by saying that my brother edited and approved of these emails.  I had a hard time believing he would.  I emailed him and asked him if this was true, but he never responded.  So I've always wondered.

So fast forward a few years, and this man who is usually so quiet you almost forget he's there, and who has been so complicit and compliant with his wife's crazy over the years, is now writing a lot of pro-Trump rants, extolling the virtues of standing up to the lies and misinformation from the Left, bashing the narcissism and hyper-sensitivity of those on the Left who feel so easily threatened.  And he's writing all this stuff as if he has no idea ... .just ... .how ... .ironic ... .he's being. 

I want to make it clear... .I'm not trying to make any political judgments here, or bring up any political debates.  I didn't vote for Trump.  But I can respect his nomination and hope for the best.  But if you take the situation out of the core political debate, I just see him making these bold statements about stand up for what's right, even though I've never seen him boldly stand up for what's right in his own life.  And while I can only laugh at the irony of the situation.  There's a part of me that wonders if his perception of reality is almost as twisted as his wife's.   

Well we can't know for sure what your brother is thinking, but to me this sounds like displaced anger.

As to the e mails, this is the kind of stuff I got from BPD mom. Also any e mails I sent to my father, she read. He passed away several years ago and she still uses his e mail address- with his name on it. Anyone who tried to contact him would get to her first. Whether or not he approved of those e mails, you probably won't know because he would not tell you, as the consequences would be not pleasant. However, after a number of years, I noticed this kind of thing became a habit to my father- he just did whatever my mother wanted. It was almost as if they were the same person. I think enmeshment results in two people becoming more and more similar over time. There is even a term for this: F-o-lie a deux- (spelled this way because the spam filter didn't recognize a word in French.)

My father could not get angry at my mother, but this didn't mean he didn't get angry. He was a great dad to us most of the time, but if we did the slightest thing that irritated him or my mother, he would lash out in rage. Sometimes he would accidentally call me by her name. Although it was terrifying and hurtful, I did wonder if the anger he had was not for me, but for her- but being angry at me didn't result in consequences from her.

Your brother has no way to let out his anger. He may be meek and introverted, but that doesn't mean he doesn't get angry sometimes. This election, more than any other I can recall, has resulted in what seems like justified anger on both sides. I have heard the angry words from your brother, but also angry words from the other side as well. For some reason, people who would not say these things to other people are saying it. It seems this election has given people permission to call each other names on social media, unfriend their friends, and be angry. Your brother may have previously not considered this before, but now, he has an outlet.

Hey :)

This sounds really stressful. I know the feeling of not being defended or protected from BPD/NPD actions and this is something that really hits the core.

I'm just throwing an idea, please don't get me wrong - how are the dynamics in your foo? How is the relationship between your mother and you/ you and your brother? How is SIL's relationship with her foo?
My brother and an ex-partner of his kind of had the same show going on. My very introverted but angry-to-the-core brother turned his back on the family. And his partner used to say really really nasty thing to us while my brother backed him up. My brother was on the  verge of cutting us off completely. After years of therapy and insight and talks between him and me we found out that my (potentially) PD mother (I'm stilll not comfortable with the thought and protecting her) made the dynamics between him and me/ her and him so toxic that he didn't feel like he had a choice but to leave. I was so thrown i  that i didn't even realize the toxicity of (parts of) my relationship with mom, neither did i understand the dynamics. My brother looked for a partner who had the same issues with his family and this hatred for mothers ans sisters made them bond hery strongly.

I'm not saying your mom has a PD. I'm just trying to think systemically to understand as to why this triangle (sil - brother - you/ sil - brother - mom) exists in the first place. As in why does your brother allow to abuse his family while outwardly defending other values?
Also i don't mean to blame you our your foo for what's going on. If he chooses to engage in a relationship with an angry woman, this is his choice. I really hope you and your mom.will be able to establish/keep up your boundaries. I wish you all the best

I hope you understand my thoughts somehow

Notwendy, I hadn't heard that "madness of two" French term before, but it's perfect.  You pretty much hit the nail on the head.  I've said this more than a few times on this board, that it's amazing how similar some of the characteristics are of a N/BPD. I'm pretty sure that my SIL goes through my brother's emails every now and then.  A year ago she responded to an email that I sent my brother.  But it was an email that I had sent a year before.  Which told me that she went through his emails -most likely did a search specifically on my name, and responded without even bothering to ask my brother about it.

I can't help think that there is a displaced anger in the way he's being vocal about politics.  He's being passionately opinionated about standing up for what is right politically in a way that he's neglected in his personal life.  But even though I always assumed better of him, I think this is showing something about his own dysfunction and moral blind spots.  Seeing how he is online has really hit me in a way.  In one way, it's just interesting and kind of amusing.  But in another way, even though my relationship with her has been better the past few years, I don't enjoy the time I spend with either of them.  And my mind is always looking for a way to articulate reasons for eventually going NC.

catclaw, You bring up some interesting questions.  I do see some interesting dynamics in my family.  I don't think my mom is personality disordered.  But I do see some similarities between her and my SIL.  My mom is a complete opposite from her in the sense that my mom is always looking out for other people, always wanting to do things for others.  Whereas my SIL is always looking out for herself and always looking for people do things for her.  But they share a similar lack of introspection, an inability to see their contribution to situations where people respond to them negatively, and an overactive sense of victimhood. 

My SIL does not have a good relationship with her own parents.  She views her childhood as being full of abuse.  But I think the truth is that she caused a lot of havoc in her parents' lives with her N/BPD, and they had a hard time discipling her.  By her own admission, they threatened to disown her.  I think her family is very happy that she lives across the country from them. 

Growing up, I think my brother was my mom's GC.  We were coddled and kind of isolated.  And I think because my brother was the more rigidly obedient and because he was always very introverted, my mom coddled him more.  A few years back we were talking about our childhood, and I realized we both had a very different childhood.  He was happy and content.  I struggled with depression and anxiety from an early age, and often felt a lack of belonging in both my peer group and at home. 

I think another odd factor with that coddling --I really wanted to get out of the house, but growing up we were not encouraged to be independent.  I had a lot of anxiety and self-doubt about my abilities to care for myself.  And I think my brother did, too.  He was always the smart one.  But he didn't finish college.  I left home, first to travel at age 21, then to college. My brother lived with my parents, with my mom taking care of all his daily needs, until he got married in his late 30s. Being so introverted, he never really dated before he met his wife over the internet. 

It is weird to me how things have turned out.  Growing up, I used to get so frustrated with my mom.  And we were frequently arguing. But I think that's normal for mothers and daughters.  My brother never really challenged my parents, where as I did. I can say this now ---they really did have some dumb rules that needed challenging.  But I don't blame them.  They were immigrants and had a rough upbringing. Lol. One time my brother criticized me about my attitude, and said that in Old Testament times I would have been stoned.  My mom does still require a lot of patience some times.  But now I have a good relationship with her.  I'm married to a really wonderful, good-hearted man.  And my brother who has always valued respecting parents, is married to a contentious woman who has been disrespectful to his parents.  Interesting how things turn around in life, isn't it?

Hello Pilpel,
Do you have an idea about why you were depressed and anxious as a kid ? I would think that, if children feel loved and have stable parents, they feel happy generally ?
Why did you not have a sense of belonging?
Xx

Social media has allowed people to say things they wouldn't say to someone face to face, or to someone they feared losing the relationship or causing tension over. It seems easy to post something when you don't see the reaction or hurt on the reader's face.

Of course, this is a fallacy, as someone with real feelings is reading the posts, but it seems people forget that. Also short posts are prone to misinterpretation. I just try to avoid political discussions online as they seem to run to name calling and meanness. Perhaps for your brother it is a way to let off steam without risking his relationship with his wife. Also a way to belong to part of a group.

BPD is not the only cause of issues in a family. Families with alcoholism, or co-dependency can create issues. My MIL at first glance appears to be a saint, but she is co-dependent and controlling with her "kindness" and caretaking. It is preferable to being angry and raging like my mother, but the family unit is enmeshed and there is a lot of passive aggressive behaviors. The difference- they appear to get along but find other ways to express their frustrations. There are no perfect parents, but dysfunction is on a spectrum- and how much is too much is hard to know, unless it is obvious or we find we have FOO issues to work on.

Yes, the election has brought some interesting responses.

So it's pretty strange to have my mother declare " I think this candidate has a mental illness-  have you ever met someone with a mental illness? " and I don't even know what to say to that. She also talks about someone she knows who has BPD and says "that woman has BPD, do you know what that is?" as if I don't know my mother has BPD. ( we are not allowed to let on that we know).

When we have conversations, sometimes she sounds so fine it makes me think- is this the same woman with the rages, - that we kids are not supposed to talk about but it happened in front of us? It's like she is two people in two worlds. So political discussions are just a bit eerie.

Fie, I used to always blame my parents.  But later on I wondered if I was wired a particular way, too.  I think it's probably a bit of both.  I was overly sensitive and self-conscious as a kid.  My parents are very religious.  And they were war refugees.  So my parents had a lot of trauma in their youth, and a lot of hardship starting out in a new country with nothing.  My mom was a very anxious person, and I don't think she had very good parental intuition.  (I suspected that when I was kid, but I witnessed it when I had my own kids.)  She had a strong tendency to catastrophize.  And I suspect she suffered from hypochondria.  Yet, she thrived when other people were weak and she could be a caretaker.  And I think she might be ADD.  Conversationally she's narcissistic.  She talks a lot, but doesn't listen.  Growing up, I rarely felt like she listened to me.  As a kid she would sometimes sit with me and say "Tell me everything.  I want to be your best friend." Next thing I know she's on the phone with the neighbor repeating everything I said.  And to this day, she has a habit of asking me questions, and then talking over me when I try to answer her.  She had a closer relationship with my brother.  She overshared with everyone.  But he let her overshare more than I did. So... .she's like that.  I always felt like I could relate to my dad better.  At the least, I recognized that he was more rational.  He seemed better capable of listening to me, but conversations with him would start out fairly normal, with a sense that he was listening, but if we talked for too long they would lead to 2 + hour monologues about religion and the End Times.  My dad was always very busy.  I suspect he had a lot of anxiety, too, and that he dealt with it by having a never-ending stream of projects to work on.  When I was in my late teens/early 20s, I felt like my family was cultish in the way my parents discouraged us from being independent.  I think the combination of religion and war trauma gives some rational for why they overly-coddled us and tried to isolate us from the world as much as they did.  It occurred to me the first time I left home that my dad lost his parents at an early age, and spent his teen years surviving.   So he never had a normal childhood, and he didn't understand what he considered my "rebellion."

Notwendy:


So funny. Yes, ironies abound.  My SIL can also act very normal and gracious at times.  And for some reason I feel more angry when she acts normal.  Because I realize that she is capable of acting normal.