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For those that don't know, I'm new here. I'm curious about boundaries. There are supposed to be for yourself, like rules you won't bend to satisfy another person.

In my experience and observation the only people i know with poor boundaries are those with either developmental disabilities, or mental illnesses. Im no expert. I only worked as an assistant in the outpatient clinic.
I satin on one of the "setting boundaries" lessons. In that class it was more about learning how to say no and that they can say no without fear of the outcome. The focus was people pleasing. Rather than convincing them that the whole world is out to get them.  They touched on specific subjects such as, not being afraid to say no because fear that the person would no longer be their friend, and standing their ground when they did not want to have sex. Seem like some of the residents thought it was their duty to have sex with their partners because that's what a partner is for.  Also, What it means to be just friends with someone, What is actual abuse and how to safely stand up for yourself.

I'm confused with what im reading in some of the boards. Here boundaries seems to point to anything that is not pleasing to the non (assuming it's the non) the non should ignore or will fall into the traps of a disordered person. 

Does anyone else here think or feel as if these boundary rules can be restricting and in some way unrealistic?

Is it even safe or okay to ask that question here?

Hi RunningSlow,

*welcome*

I think boundaries is about self love and self compassion, an invisible outward layer that protects you from harm, that layer should malleable but sometimes it needs to be rigid.

You might talking about multiple things. If my ex is upset because of my son's marks in school and he's an extension of her, she doesn't know where she ends and he begins ( boundaries ) That being said, those marks are a reflection of her, so she blames me and will make accusations that it's because I don't help with his homework on my time. We have joint custody, so it can't be because of her on her time, it's my fault in her mind ( blame shifting)

I can't change her behavior or responses, I can change how I react to it, now I think that this where the difference is, I can be indifferent with her behaviors, I can choose to neither like or hate it. If I JADE ( justify, attack, defend, explain ) it gives gives her unwarranted attention and perpetuates conflict. Good topic of discussion!

It is both safe and okay here RunningSlow, this is a safe place where we all heal together.

This is a great topic, and we've got some workshops here that address it.  Please check these out; they will help in getting clear on what healthy boundaries are and what they aren't:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0;all

Hi there and welcome.  I agree with your observation that many here on the boards use the term boundary in ways that I did not learn and do not agree with (or at least that is what I think you are saying).  So many times I read that someone 'set a boundary' but what they actually did was make a rule that requires the other person to either do something or not do something in response to the so called boundary.  Then when the person keeps on with the same behavior with no change, they say their boundary was busted and, more significantly and tragically, they say that boundaries do not work.  Boundaries work just fine when you do them correctly because they are for you/us.    The person disregarded, broke, ignored your *rule*.  They have the right to do so as we can't control anyone.  The thing is tho, they did not 'bust your boundary' *you* did by not following through on changing your behavior or enforcing the consequence that you placed on yourself.  The other person broke a rule (I think of them as rules of engagement).

Not sure if that made sense.  I guess what i am saying is that I see a lot of people using the word boundary in place of rules.  Rules are meant to get others to conform and it is okay in some cases to state them but if someone breaks your rule, they did not bust your boundary.  Boundaries have nothing to do with the other person other than to identify a behavior we will not accept or tolerate.  

Boundary:  I will not be raged at
Consequence:  I will remove myself from the situation at the first sign of raging

If the person keeps raging at you they are not busting your boundary... .but you are busting your own if you do not engage in further action.

PS. I find the articles here on boundaries less than illuminating and somewhat misleading on this particular issue when I read them coming from my education and understanding of boundaries.  I have chalked it up to differences in opinion or understanding but could not resist piping up when I saw this thread.  

PSS  All said as my opinion only of course *insert rolly eyes here ____

good boundaries are also about knowing yourself. they can be boiled down to a healthy understanding of where you end and the other person/s begins. also, fundamentally accepting others as they are, not as you want them to be.

in terms of romantic relationships, boundaries can guide us not to get enmeshed in unhealthy ways.

in terms of friends and family, an example of good boundaries can mean not rescuing. this taught me a lot personally. when friends would come to me for support or advice, id tend to tell them the situation as i saw it and what i thought they should do. sometimes id get over involved, or frustrated. messy. not helpful for either party. the karpman drama triangle has a great deal to teach us about boundaries. really most of the tools here have some tie into the concept.

im also reminded of the concept of differentiation. good boundaries are about personal responsibility.

Oh okay Thanks.  I'm glad I wasn't too far off.
Mos t of us adults can take a lesson or two from that. No matter our perceived level of understanding of what boundaries are. Usually boundaries are better explain in terms of parent to child. But relating to a partner it can be difficult. 
Reading all your responses thought me a lot more.
"JADE ( justify, attack, defend, explain)"
This is something I feel the need to investigate a bit further. I always thought it was okay to do all if need be. An explanation to someone deserving, I honestly don't see fault in that. to me it is a sign of respect.  Having to justify yourself and attack, like a said I will explore further before my any comment.
Boundary:  I will not be raged at
Consequence:  I will remove myself from the situation at the first sign of raging
This I found to be Informative and clear as clean water.
  I can't change her behavior or responses, I can change how I react  so true and my reaction wasn't always the brightest. Hopefully I'll learn from this.

in terms of friends and family, an example of good boundaries can mean not rescuing.   
In my heart and soul this is basic humanism. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to be of assistance especially to people you care about. Unless you're speaking of not caretaking or being helpful to a pwBPD because they will perceive as enabling.

There is so much more here I wanted to quote and explore but for now I'll continue reading. Thanks for understanding. You're all correct, this is an interesting topic.

sure, you can explain yourself to a person deserving an explanation. a great deal of us fell into circular arguments with our exes, and some of us have fallen into them with others. not JADEing is a way of avoiding that kind of dynamic. one generally doesnt need to explain their position more than once. repeating and restating our position just keeps it circular.

and on the subject of boundaries, lots of people struggle with saying "no", or feeling guilty when they do. i keep JADE in mind when i say "no". that doesnt preclude explaining my "no" necessarily, but its an attitude that i have every right to say "no".


there is nothing wrong with wanting to be of assistance to people we care about. as the quote about differentiation mentions, its about a difference in being responsible to others vs being responsible for others. it means examining whether our instincts/methods of assistance are best for ourselves or the other person.

being responsible to others vs being responsible for others.  this quote has me deep in thought.

 I'm lost. What does that have to do with busting or breaking boundaries?  Anyone please.

Are you saying something like, if you do it again i won't help you or be there for you. Then the person does it again, and once again I got his or her back?  Letting her (for whatever reason) get away with it, after saying I won't? 
Is that it?

I believe the A in JADE is "argue," not "attack."

In general, if someone doesn't understand you or asks for clarification, it's perfectly fine to try to explain. In circular arguments, though, the explanation is not accepted or leads to further accusations, and then you find yourself JADEing. That's what you want to avoid.

Example,
My ex didn't find it important to reach out to me in a week while she.t traveling with friends. I got upset. Started to push her away. She insisted she didn't do anything wrong. I can admit that it was an Imature answer.  Also said, she was hanging out. I insisted, what could possibly be so urgent 24/7 that she could not reach out in a week. Of course I accused her of lying and cheating. She said it was unfair and that went on until we broke up. If she ever had gave an explanation about anything it never matched the situation. A constant bickering back and forth that never went anywhere
After learning about BPD I wonder if me being upset made her shut down and that's why she had no answers. But I feel I deserved an answer.
 In this case, with the example given, who was wrong and is this an example of JADE,? More importantly, Did I break my own boundaries?

When I say wrong, I'm referring to the first time it happened should I had ended the relationship? And the fact that I didn't, made her see  cracks & imperfections in my character and a reason to keep doing? In a situation like the above, don't allow second chances, weather is a healthy or unhealthy person; correct?

I hope I'm being clear. Don't want to make the same mistakes for the rest of my life.

Your story makes you sound like the jealous, controlling one. What do you think the boundary is in this example?

flourdust,
" I will not be raged at.  So I will remove myself from the situation at the first sign of raging". 

 Harri, I see and I now understand 100℅. Thanks for that and to all for your efforts.  I now have a clear understanding, where before my attitude was somewhat , yeah right.
OnceRMd, I printed it out.

You said you got upset with her, demanded answers, refused to accept her answers, accused her of lying and cheating, and then you two were bickering. Who was doing the raging?

I can see how my simplification of the actual  situation would create that perception. To be honest, there is a possibility that I might be a bit controlling. However, that wasn't the case in that situation.

When it occurred, and it was clear that she wasn't in any danger, i questioned what happened. She said nothing. I don't know why I didn't reach out. That was her attitude. I ask is everything okay. She said yes, blah blah blah. I decided I wasn't satisfied with her nonchalant attitude (it wasn't the first time she had done it), I decided it was best for us to go our separate ways. That's when the bickering started cI viewed it as disrespectful. She of course a BPD sufferer could not understand anything in the world unless it was me or someone else in the position she was in. I concluded that she had selective comprehension and So it went

Thanks for your comments. Every little bit helps

Hi there running.  Sounds like things are very confusing for you right now and possibly touching on some painful things.  I wish I could fix all of that for you but I can't.  I am not sure how to help you here.  I will say that I think the other posters in this thread have given some very good and insightful posts on boundaries and on your situation. 

You have mentioned that you can be controlling at times, though you do not feel that it played out in the break-up with your ex.  As a person who likes to control, I can totally relate!  I have to ask though if you can see how your expectation for her to call you and then, eventually, accusing her of cheating is controlling and argumentative? Is it possible you were the one who lost your temper and was 'raging' at your ex?

I ask because in heated situations it is all too easy to get caught up in our need to control and get answers and start behaving and speaking in ways that cross a line.

The fact that she did not call you during her week vacation hurt you.
When asked she did not have an answer.
She has done this before and it has been an issue for you before.
You assumed that her not reaching out and not having an explanation meant she was lying and cheating even though in previous posts you have stated that you were never concerned that she might lie or cheat.

Can you see how your hurt, fear, need to control bubbled up and spilled out over the both of you in that situation?  Your fear, hurt and need to control became the lens through which you viewed her and, in your mind, the obvious conclusion was that she was lying and cheating.  She might have been.  She might not have been.  Regardless, you used your internal state to define your ex. 

This is where I think you did become controlling with your ex, and perhaps, were the one raging as Flourdust asked.  It is hard to see and admit that some of our own behaviors have crossed the line and contributed to the dysfunction and even the break-up, but they do.  Co-dependent behaviors can be very similar to BPD behaviors in many ways.  The difference lies in what drives the behaviors. 

Maybe as you post more and we get a better handle on your situation and you learn about the type of support offered here and learn more about boundaries, things will become less confusing.

I hope you keep posting.  You will continue to get good and constructive feedback.

There was lots of "you, you, yous" in your assessment. Just saying! I'm sure if I get constructive feedback it probably isn't going to be from you.
I appreciate your efforts, Harr

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Hiya!

Obviously my message did not get across as intended tho it seems I get the bulk of your upset.  Ooops.  Constructive or not for you, I've learned quite a bit from this.

Take good care running and good luck to you