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I've been thinking about detachment and what the word means. Also why it is so hard in these toxic relationships. Is it hard because of the BPD person or hard because most of us who get involved are the types that are fixers or the hero and want to always make a broken thing better? I sit here thinking this tonight, as it's now about a week after mine and my ex BPD's fourth and worst break up. I was filled with anger, hurt, betrayal, and knowing after everything our relationship is all but impossible.

Yet I still can't seem to get the want or need to speak to her out of my head. She did everything that I can think of to utterly betray and hurt me, like nothing I could imagine. Yet why do I want to talk to her? I keep telling myself I want to find out why, why did she do and say all these things? Why, when things were going good? Why, when it looks like this separation will hurt her more financially and her life will be more difficult because of it. Why did she always say and do the opposite? How could she be in a relationship for years and hurt that person and do things to make that person hate them? To have no feelings or thoughts of someone you shared an intimate life with for so long? I guess at the end we all crave some sort of understanding, the wish that they will see what the have done and how much things and people get ruined.

I know everyone says it's best to make a clean break and avoid at all costs, but I feel like never understanding might drive me crazy, might scar me for life, might negatively impact my life and my future relationships. But how to get those answers is a hard question. Finding a way to talk to her may be difficult. I just don't know where to go from here.

Hi KarmasReal,

*welcome*


I'm sorry. A lot of us here didn't get closure from our exes. I know it's really hard when your left with no reasonable explanation as to why your ex can't continue the r/s or keeps engaging in destructive behaviors. l wanted to have that talk with my ex because we were together for several years and it felt like things happened so quickly, she just said she's moving on  and avoided me for a few months at home and after she left. You can give closure for yourself when your ex didn't give it to you.

I know closure is a very rare thing in BPD relationships. But it's possible isn't it. I've been through this break up and stop talking then something happens and we are back together 2 months later cycle a few times. Each time I feel like I got back into it because I never got closure from the relationship. It's like I was still seeking answers. Sometimes I wonder if I ever did get a closure type conversation if maybe I would have moved on or past this toxic cycle of make ups and break ups. I am just the type of person who needs something like that to help move me alon and understand the relationship and its failures. I want to better myself from the experience and learn from it. I don't want to say it's two years of wasted life and all the hard times meant nothing because there was no love, no commitment, and not even an understanding of where we failed or what to work on for the future. It's only been 6 days since it happened I keep thinking a message or meeting might help. If I could figure out a way to do it. I think if I told her I wanted to talk for closure she wouldn't respond or would negatively.

Hi Karma,
Believe me, I can relate to that desperate longing for closure, for at least a real conversation and that recognition that, yes, we really did share something. It might have gone down in flames, but it was something meaningful and true while it was good. I tried for months to have that kind of a conversation with my ex. I thought that, because I was the one to end the relationship, I should put in the extra effort to show I cared and that I would keep trying to have a real, open, honest connection even if it was only as friends or simply a friendly goodbye.

The truth is, my ex did at times tell me that it meant a lot to her, that she had never been so in love, that she missed me, and that we were meant to be together. I'm not sure what else I wanted. Somehow I felt our conversation was never quite real. We never addressed all the chaos that came to define the relationship. I always got the sense, even as she was saying closure-like things, that she was looking for an angle to either recycle or blame me for our failure. And our conversations always veered in one or the other direction. It was too toxic, and I eventually had to accept that it was hurting both of us to keep pushing for some kind of happy, or at least friendly, separation. There was too much pain and confusion, on both sides I guess.

That's just my story. Every relationship and every situation is different. I can say this - now that I'm many months out of the relationship, I see her manipulation and dishonesty more clearly. I still occasionally long for the good times again, because they were incredibly good. And I think she has a beautiful side to her. But she also has a dark side and I find it hard to understand how I put up with so much and tried so hard to show her I was ready to be friends, when clearly she wasn't going to make any effort in return. It can be very very hard to step away without any of the answers we seek. But it might be that she simply cannot or will not give you those answers. Especially as she might be familiar and set in the pattern that seems to be established, with you returning for answers or hoping for change and finding the same relationship again. Do you have any reason to think she would behave differently if you engage again?

No I think she would behave exactly the same. Right now I'm not sure the reality of our break up has set in. Just like the several times before it always seems to take a little while for us to re engage. Honestly I don't know where her head is at at the moment. If she feels free from the "suffocation" of living and loving me, free of my "control" by us attempting a normal relationship. Or if she's mad that I left her am not living with her, that we aren't about to move and buy the house we wanted, and the dog, and the duel income family we were going to be. Or she is hating herself for losing all those things by doing something stupid and wrong. It could be any or all. Many times I never knew if her anger towards me was because she was mad at me, herself, or she was hurt and covering it up. It's just so hard to get a handle on those things. Every time we break up it feels as though I was easily discarded, usually for something not even worthwhile, then she comes back and the love is strong and it feels like we are just meant to be. It's the most confusing feeling of you can tell what you mean to someone at all. It's a couple of weeks until her birthday, a couple more after that is when she was to love out and into our future house. I don't know if I should wait and see if she decides to say anything. Or if engaging this soon after is a good thing before it spirals more out of control. She still has not removed our profile pics and other pics from social media, but neither have I. Seems strange considering how bad the break up was so bad I don't know if that means she's thinking about reconciling or just is leaving them up for some other strange BPD respond. She stubborn within her emotional crisis so her talking to me first, especially this early on, seems unlikely. Just another unhealthy coping mechanism. And I feeling hurt and betrayed by her don't want to appear to try to be getting her back because it looks weak and whether on purpose or not her BPD will take full advantage of that. so I really don't know where to go from here. I just want to talk to her, in an honest way, without anger, or lies or manipulation or trying to get back together or hurting her and trying to get further apart. It seems rational to me, but that conversation probably sounds like hell for her so I don't believe she would be open to me telling her that, I would have to have some excuse to see her or message her, and I don't really have that either. So I just remain confused for now.

It helps to post on the right board to get the right help. We can help you detach, but it doesn't sound like that's what you want. Here's the link to the undecided board https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=2.0

Firstly, I don't think it's you or some weakness in you that got you involved with this person. Several female friends have been involved with men with mood disorders, and these friends are amongst the strongest women I know. I've also noticed that the other common factor with the people they and I have encountered is the leisure interests we pursue. There are certain pastimes which seem to attract people with these problems - along with healthy people - and other hobbies which do not.

I think the problem with detachment is that the attachment isn't normal. You may have tried to make it so, but they will have steered your behaviour to fit their needs. At the time you would probably have seen this as the compromise and give and take in any normal relationship and gone along with it.

Because of their abandonment/lack of parent bonding, I think they have manipulated you into giving the unconditional love they feel they've never had. This would be an unconscious survival instinct on their part. Your world will have focused increasingly around their condition/issues/needs without concern for your own needs being reciprocated.
Unfortunately, it seems we can be drawn into giving unconditional love very quickly - not surprising as we have to when we have children. And the intense affection they will have shown to you at the start will have triggered an overload of brain chemicals which also make this happen.

In other words, I think the very quick attachment and difficulty with detachment are perfectly normal under the circumstances, but very difficult to deal with.

But it isn't you. It isn't your fault, or theirs, and very likely not their parents however much they may blame them. It's the fault of a horrible disorder, caused by a variety of things.

It is very hard to detach. I fight the same thing, I am doing well then the ex pops up again and I start having issues again.

It is hard to remember and even harder when you are apart, but they are broken, they don't think or feel like normal people.
There is no explanation that will give you the closure you need.
I sit here now and I haven't seen or talked to my ex in a week and I am already thinking, this is what I did wrong, or that is what I did. Placing the blame on myself. But then that is why I am here, to remember that it isn't me. I am an awesome person and the problem is her condition

Best you can do is get some therapy for yourself and try to move on and realize that is not what a relationship is supposed to be like.

Happening the same way is so true. Because if you haven't read through other people's experiences, your may not be exact but for me many of them were. I could have written the same things and that goes to show you it is the disorder, not you.

Yes, the emotions and emotional detachment are still there and make this harder. But I think just not being able to understand is the hardest. Everything in both our lives would have been so much better had she not ruined it for no real reason other than just being dumb and selfish and uncaring. It's like she actively avoids anything that is good or not full of conflict. Somehow she is probably happier in the middle of this conflict, break up, hurt and anger than she is when we are happy and good and everything is nice and fun. Also, I believe I am in the right forum. I am not conflicted about staying in a relationship I broke it off already. I am just struggling with detaching and moving in a good direction for myself. I thought that is what this board was here to help with? Anyways thanks for these replies guys!

Hey KarmasReal, I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain.  It seems like you are seeking to understand your b/u and find answers for what went wrong.  This may prove to be a fruitless inquiry, in my view, because BPD is an extremely complex disorder which defies logic and reason.  I doubt that you will ever fully understand your Ex's motivations.  What you can do is try to understand your reasons for choosing a pwBPD, which often involves looking at one's FOO or perhaps trauma in one's childhood.  Could either of those possibilities apply to you?  Suggest you sit with your feelings and just observe, without the need to do anything in particular.

LuckyJim

You are in the right forum, Karmas Real.  So many of us feel the SAME way and we're all here to help each other get through this.

Seeing this post of yours was reassuring to me that I'm not alone with feeling crazed by not having closure.  Instead of focusing on myself and healing, I still find myself obsessing over what happened.  I don't have a lot of answers.  I was discarded like a piece of trash as if I never meant anything and still find myself thinking about her constantly.  I'm trying to break the bond I thought was there but it hasn't happened yet.  Being cut off has done nothing but crush my self-esteem and spirit.  Unfortunately, my fwBPD has not intention of giving me closure or peace of mind.  Something that will happen with time, I hope.

If you come up with a quick fix, let me know

Thanks for the replies guys. I know how complex and tumultuous BPD can be. I know there is a large chance I won't get answers or get answers that aren't the truth. I feel like I can read her enough to decipher some of what she says on a more rational level. That's where me trying to get closure comes in. If I see what she's thinking maybe then I will understand or see there was really nothing I could have done. I constantly am wondering if it was something I did or said, that pushed her into something. I can't think of any rational things I could have done but I really want to know. If there was a quick fix I would love to know it too. I know there's not, just time and self healing. But I feel like a big step in self healing in all relationships especially these is closure and understanding.

Is there anyone else who no matter what can't seem to fathom hating and just throwing a person who meant so much to them for so long away. Like I wish to be on friendly terms with any of my exes at some point. I would try to be her friend at some point but it would never happen if we just throw it all away like this break up has been going. I often feel like a parent of a child with her, knowing what's better for her than she does its so confounding that I don't even know if she sees how bad things will go with this break up and all of the consequences. I just want to know she understands, if she does there's nothing to do but accept everything. But I must first get the talk and questions answered for myself about our relationship. Hopefully I can. Thanks!

I think 'parent of a child' is exactly what you are. Her emotional state is abandoned child, and pushed you into the role of trying to be a parent, transferring the image of one or both of her own parents - along with all the things she blames them for - onto you. One of the things I have seen suggested is for you to transpose the image of an abandoned child onto your mental image of the person.

I'm not sure trying to find answers is helpful, because the likelihood is even she couldn't tell you what she was doing/feeling at any given time. And if she could, her answer would most likely change on a daily basis. She doesn't know or understand herself, nor why she acts the way she does.

Hopefully you will eventually find closure by constantly reminding yourself it is a cruel condition which came about for a combination of reasons, which you most likely wouldn't have seen until you became emotionally close to her, and which you could not have done anything to heal, despite how she may have implied you could.

Yes, me.  Maybe it's too early in the detachment phase, I don't know.  I haven't been able to let go of the idea of a reconciliation of sorts.  I'm fooling myself, I think.  Maybe for those of us with big non-BPD hearts it's just too hard to make sense of? 

The not knowing is torture, yes.  We just have no choice but to find a way to let it go without knowing what happened for sure.  At least in my case, anyway.  She won't speak to me or have any contact.

Hi KarmasReal,


I think it's difficult to "see what she's thinking" because she spent so much of your time together persuading you to believe you are like minded. Because she's disordered, I don't believe her mind (and priorities) are anything like yours.


Consider the possibility that nothing you did or said would have altered how your relationship played out. My understanding of this disorder is that people with BPD (pwBPD) want to "move past" their disorder -- the biggest manifestation of their disorder being that they cannot seem to experience an adult, intimate, connected relationship without it eventually breaking apart due to their disordered feelings and thoughts.  They want to move past it, but all their psychological coping methods prevent them from learning from their experience.

There is nothing you could have done or not done to have avoided triggering these disordered feelings/thoughts because it is the context of intimate/familial relationships which trigger them.  This is why in the beginning of these relations, where there is little established intimacy/familiarity, they move forward so quickly and are seemingly uninhibited by their disorder. But with real time spent together, their disordered behaviors manifest.


This is a big clue, that her values and beliefs, do not coincide with your own. And I would argue it is an even bigger tell, that her emotional development is no where near where you once imagined it to be.  My understanding is that for pwBPD, they have not yet developed emotionally to have stable attachments.  For pwBPD, you are either "all in" or "all out."  Spending more time with them does not reinforce the resilience of your relationship with them; quite the opposite, I think.  The more time you spend with them, the more likely you are to make your relationship less stable.


You may have been like a parent to her. But I urge you to accept that no amount of patience and understanding could ever help her work through her issues, so long as she chooses not to accept them, and not to make any effort towards recovering from them.


I think it is easier to understand when an infant/child has difficulty understanding-managing their emotions when it comes to insecurity and attachment towards others or their parents. It is harder to accept that someone who is adult in appearance and in most behaviors is, in fact, operating with the emotional resources of an infant/child; and even worse, an infant/child with trauma.


So... .she acted the way she did because she is disordered... .*or* because she had "no real reason other than just being dumb and selfish and uncaring" but probably not for both reasons.  I think accepting the former reason would require that you see her as someone besides the person you thought you knew; and that might take some time.


As I see it, when you were "happy and good and everything [was] nice and fun" that was also a time when her disordered feeling were being triggered big time.  And that is something that is difficult to understand because that was not your experience.  I believe that was her experience - but she did not have the resources to communicate this experience.  She probably does not have the resource to even accept these things about herself.

I hope some of this is helpful to you.

Best wishes,

Schwing

@  schwing: Well said!  Wow, that was a terrific post that really helped me.  You pulled together a lot of loose ends about BPD for me.  Thanks

@  KarmasReal: No, I don't think being "friends" with your BPD Ex is a realistic possibility, due to her black and white thinking.  As schwing said, you're either all in or all out, and you're out at the moment.  In my view, those w/BPD lack the emotional maturity to maintain a friendship after a r/s has ended.  I think your desire for a friendship or ongoing connection is normal, but I don't see that happening, sad to say.  As schwing notes, she is an adult operating with the emotional resources of a child.  I doubt anything you could have done would have changed the outcome, so don't beat yourself up!  Suggest you put your energy where your power is, i.e., in the things that are within your ability to change.

LuckyJim