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Those who have read my previous posts will know that I've been conflicted about whether or not to meet up with my ex. I am NOT going to meet up with him.

It all began with some push/pull and then I received a series of emails where he told me that I am:

A liar, to him and myself, the latter being the worst kind of liar, I am a cheat who was always "casting" around for others, I disrespected him and his family, my friends are condescending and small-minded.

He, on the other hand, never lied, he was endlessly kind, looking after me and *Milly and even though I kept finishing with him, he cared for me everyday. He is done with being kind. Followed by GOODBYE.

*I don't know anyone called Milly. He could be referring to my now deceased, but still much loved dog, with a similar sounding name.

Then more:

He wrote that the cause of our break-up was my lies, deceit, and men in the background. I will have to live with my mistakes, I know what they are and always will, as will he, goodbye.

Then,
"It is odd that we both knew it was the last time. Really strange, made me believe a little in fate."

I couldn't hold it in any longer and replied, Enough, there is no such thing. It wasn't fate that ended us. You rage, you project, you lie, you paint me black, but you can be lovely, funny, sexy, and I loved all of that in you. I won't forget you. Take care of yourself. I wish you much happiness.

Maybe I could have practised some communication skills, validated, ignored it all, but I'm just 'not' equipped to deal with all of this. It hurts. There's nothing more to say really. I just feel incredibly sad.

Oh Larmoyant, I'm sorry. I know how hard this has been for you, and for good reason. 

I'm glad you titled the post "the disorder wins," because that is how I feel about it, too, from my own experience. It's very sad that untreated BPD can make the lives of sufferers and those close to them so difficult and painful. Sometimes we have to save ourselves... .better that than 2 people spiraling into cycle after cycle of hurt. 

heartandwhole

I imagine this is where I will be in a few years. 

It's sad, because the people aren't the problem, the disorder is. 

I love my wife, but I can't imagine living with her forever. 

The person she could be is great.  The person BPD makes her into is not.

Best wishes for your future. 

heartandwhole, if I'm to have a decent life I have to stop these painful cycles.

His belief that I wanted and was looking around for other men is so deeply ingrained. That 'feeling' of his is definitely a 'fact', along with the the view that I am deceitful and a liar as I won't admit to it. I now accept that view will never change.

The insults and accusations are too much to bear now. He says he's told all his family and friends, including mutual friends how deceitful and "man hungry" I am.

This morning he wants to talk again.

I've sobbed my heart out, sorry that I'm not strong enough for this. 

PFCI, thank you, it's truly heartbreaking. The potential was there, all the ingredients for a wonderful relationship, a lovely human being, and a very destructive one who both wants me and doesn't, he can't trust me, and there's nothing I can do.   

Wow--I'm so sorry. I know you had some hopes and I know how it feels to read something on another planet from what was going on to generate those hopes.

I understand why you don't feel you can or should "manage" this with tools. For me--my ex has some really distorted ideas and memories about us. They cause him to push me away. I have a hard time just discounting all he says and does that is anti-relationship as if it is of no meaning or value, while accepting all that is good and makes me feel good, as if it is more real. I fear what is good is also largely a product of the disorder. His outsized appreciation for small considerations I show him ... .Sure it makes me feel good, but isn't it really a product of his own low expectations for the world and his negative view of himself?  Etc, etc.

It's really hard to have an actual real relationship with someone who is not fully in reality with you.

PC, yes, reading his comments was incredibly painful given what is going on in my heart. If only he could feel this instead of mistrust and fear.

I also have a hard time discounting his words and actions. It causes so much anxiety and stress. To paint me as a cheater, and "man hungry" (horrible expression) is so far from how I view myself and want to be viewed. I feel a compulsion to defend my own honour!

It's come down to a choice between him and me. I could stay around and try to learn the tools, but he'll still drag me down. I feel torn to pieces sometimes and the good things he sees in me seem to have disappeared. If they were to come back then I agree they must also be a product of the disorder.

Is there anything 'real' in all this!

I experienced the same thing L., and it was pure PROJECTION; the more you try to defend yourself, the more they believe they are the better person.


Yes there is; you showed real love to someone who has a mental illness, they couldn't accept it and reciprocate, they loved you as much as they were capable of. Even though your realities differed, it was very real for both of you.

Hey Larm, I reached a point in my marriage to my BPDxW where I came to see that perhaps my loyalty was misplaced, because I was destroying myself for someone who was unkind, abusive, violent and irrational.  I used to think that something positive would come out of all my suffering, yet now I find that maybe I was deceiving myself with false-hope.  Are you ready to end the painful cycles?  Only you know when it's time to get off the roller coaster.

LuckyJim

Radical Acceptance.

You are who you are, and you know who you are. You know you aren't cheating, and aren't looking to cheat.

He is who he is. He cannot trust you or believe you. That's all on him. You might be able to figure out where it came from or how it works. (Projection, past trauma, BPD, etc.) But what matters is that this is who he is.

Time to accept that you cannot ever convince him that you are the faithful person you know yourself to be. And trying is just wasting your breath.

You already know the tools... .you just cannot use them with him because you become overwhelmed by the FOG.  Fair assessment?  
This also seems to speak to some finality... .acknowledging that no matter what you do inevitably he will drag you down.  This is something you have been aware of for sometime now... .correct?

Larmoyant, in my own journey I gave all I could and then some.  I wish I would have done some things differently as I certainly was far from perfect.  In hindsight I could've kept giving love to my ex 24 hours a day 7 days a week, 365 days a year... .and her love tank would still be empty.  Her tank was unable to hold love as it was broken... .it was always starving for more fuel (love).  I gave all I could, and I owed her no more... .moreover, I owed it to myself to take care of me, as it was literally killing me mentally, emotionally and physically.  Hands down toughest thing I've ever done in my life.  Hands down the best thing I have ever done for myself as well.  We cannot fix them, we cannot save them.  Isn't it time for you to show yourself the love you deserve?  You are not the monster you allow him to continually paint you by staying in contact.  We know that, you know that... .Isn't it time to self protect with complete NC?  Isn't it time to begin real detachment?

You posted in my very first thread here... .words of support and encouragement even though you were in a tough spot yourself.  I never forgot you did that and have kept up with you since.  You have and will continue to help people here as you are a kindhearted understanding person.  It's time to begin your journey in stepping out of the FOG I believe.
We're here to walk with you.  

Don't underestimate the power of FOG on your life... .the power of "them" (you SO) to "hook" you because they know where the emotional weak points are.

Just yesterday I was briefly "hooked" when my wife suggested (accused) me of not doing certain things while I was at work.  I know the rules... .zero good things come from getting involved in a silly debate about what a pwBPD knows... .or how they figure out what they know.

I ended up frustrated for a couple hours and moved on.

You are evaluating whether or not to continue any sort of r/s with someone that tries to "hook you"... .as your ex did with all that projection.  That is a decision worthy of serious thought.

FF

Thank you for the replies, misplaced loyalty, radical acceptance, the dreaded FOG, the hooks, the projection. It all makes sense.

I've had a very difficult few days processing the latest drama and I am tired, exhausted. Our latest encounter, it continued, had my head spinning and in fear of becoming as bats*t crazy as he is. No apologies for saying that. I am seriously tired. The immaturity, confusion and craziness is astounding and I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. I'd probably laugh if it wasn't so damaging.

Despite dramatic "goodbyes" from him (again), and mine in response (again), he made further contact. He wrote that he had warned me not to throw us away, but I have, so would now have to live without him. He then accused me of not repaying money I didn't really owe in the first place (long story). He couldn't argue with bank statements so I got an apology. He then asked if I had a new partner before disappearing into the ether... .until the next time.  

What exactly is the point of all this. It could go on forever. The reality is that this has been an almost 11 month break-up. Who has a year long break-up? Please tell me it isn't only me? If I look closely it is a carbon copy of the relationship only without any benefits. A break-up full of push/pull, rage and devaluation, chaos and confusion. Stark raving mad.


drained, all completely true. Only I so wanted to be able to use those tools.

It seems as if I keep trying to prove to him that I'm a good person, but I'm exhausted and can't take the punches anymore. I'm still processing, but my 'sane' self is coming back I can feel it.  I think it's time to stop pushing the pain away and get off the crazy train.

As your completely unprofessional person to advise... .but a BPD survivor myself... .leap now.  What the f**k do you have to lose?
I jumped... .and the fall became my climbing of Mt Everest.  I WON! 
It took work, it was not without pain... .but the cutting of the umbilical cord was the beginning to finding ME again.  We are your pillow for jumping off the crazy train.  Please jump with solid NC!  It'll make the landing much easier in the long run.  We are here!
Look forward to seeing you back on the detaching board... .

Hey Larm, You're never going to be able to convince him, so why bother?  You know that you're a good person and that's what counts.  Suggest you let go of his views, which are out of your control.

LuckyJim

It will go on forever if you allow it to. The disorder always wins.


Of course it isn't only you, there are many members who have gone a very long time trying to break up with a PWBPD, myself included. The key is to stop ALL communication with them, otherwise they will keep trying because they think an attachment is still there, even when you go TOTAL NC they usually try to contact you periodically, and only if you remain NC will you get to the point that it doesn't affect you.

You are right that there is only negative in communicating with a PWBPD when you are trying to break up with them. We must remember that they have a serious mental illness and aren't capable of an amicable break up like 2 mature adults are, therefore we must be the one's to stay NC and give ourselves the required closure.

Hi Larmoyant



best emoticon on this website   


You threw him away?    Invalid.   He created an environment in which no one could have survived and his projection of the blame onto you is also invalid.   Don't attach to it.   I know that is easier said than done.   I am going to respond by repeating something that was said to me.   




Boy I didn't like that when I first read it but it was and still is very true.   I attached a great value and importance to the words and actions of a disordered person even in the face of tons of evidence that her reality was distorted.   Why did I do that?    Just as I can't 'fix' her emotions the only person who can recover and manage mine is me.

For me, ultimately it's not about my ex, it's about something inside of me that needs healing.   and I am going to continue to feel uncomfortable about and disturbed by this relationship until I build up my self esteem and inner strength.



just like Lucky Jim I noticed this.   


You are a good person Larmoyant.   You deserve to be treated well by the people you allow into your life.   I am sorry you are going through this.    I know how difficult it is.   Keep looking for the answers.   Keep fighting your way forward to a better place.    Make good decisions for you.

'ducks

This is the key. I keep wanting to try.

Much has happened in the last few days and I've been burned. I sometimes think I'm strong, that I can take it, like water off a duck's back, but it's really not. Not at all. I'm feeling fragile afraid to tell anyone this, afraid of their frustration and even anger. I know it's my own fault.

He told me he loved me again, "very, very much and entirely", said he feels sad that it wouldn't work between us although he had really wanted it to and said "if you had gone with my plan we would be moving in together now",  that what we had was real, said I was beautiful, kind, intelligent and someone will be very lucky one day, mentioned the loss of my career saying he knows how unfair it has been, even said that he'd given it some thought from my perspective and that the relationship must have been "confusing and agonising" for me, he apologised for not being aware, but has learned from it going forwards. I wished him well grateful for the closure and for the chance to end it in a gentler, kinder way.

Only it wasn't over. He then decided to tell me that he was now in a new relationship, that he loves and cares for her and will no longer be communicating with me. He repeated that he knows what we had and it was very real, it had been "fantastic at times and it felt so right, but... ." and then sent me a long list of my wrong doings, holding me responsible for the majority of why it ended, but still ended all this with "I love you". I sobbed for a day.

I probably haven't expressed it well enough to show the impact it had. It felt 'on purpose' if that makes sense, calculated, and cruel, but maybe I'm wrong? Maybe he's just confused?

It seems like it's over properly, he's gone, although I can't be 100% sure. He may come back. I could block him but I'll probably still check. He likes hurting me and I won't stop it. I'm fighting something inside, but I'm almost, almost there. As Drained says what the *** do I have to lose. I can do this.

There's no real way to know what he meant, what he was trying to do.

But it is heartbreakingly clear that the end result (You sobbed for a day) is what he's going to do to you if you stay in touch, and if you are vulnerable enough to have those feelings. No matter why, he's going to do things like that to you.

Take good care of yourself, and put your energy into people who do love you, and have the capacity to express so you feel loved.

So Larmoyant... .what are we going to do with this?
What are your thoughts? 

Well, I just read a thread on here about 'affective instability' and that's what he is showing or at least I think so. I am, however, convinced that he enjoys some of this. Like a cat playing with a mouse, but I am strong and he has to work hard to defeat me.The trouble is he does eventually wear me down so I'm going to try 30 days no contact. I have just this minute blocked mail/mobile messages. Now I must fight not to look at them. I'm crying, but I'm going to try, but what if I fail?

Ignore that  :) Crying over, he's horrible, I am not going to fail!

Crying is ok... .as FHTH says, its pain coming out.  I cried until I had no more tears. 


If you look or unblock... it's not a failure... .it's part of the process.  I looked more than I should have... .I contacted when I knew better.  For your information... .when I did, it simply caused me more pain.   If you do, you simply start again... .
We are here to walk with you, fall with  you, and get right back up.   |iiii

 Larmoyant,

Learning about BPD, or the other personality disorders,  is helpful in several ways.  

Learning about disordered thinking does not provide an excuse for abhorrent behavior.

Learning about disordered thinking should help us detach from the abhorrent behavior.  To not take it personally as it isn't about us.

I am right there with   C<||| Grey Kitty


And since there is no way to completely determine what he meant, or what he was trying to do maybe it's time to turn the focus, the energy, the attention on Larmoyant?   On spending less time figuring out what is going on with him and more time figuring out what is going on with Larmoyant?    

That isn't easy to do.   We become conditioned to paying lots of attention to the highly intense emotions of our people with BPD.    Trying to figure them out before the other shoe drops or coax or goad them in a certain direction.    It leaves us feeling hyper vigilant to externals and out of touch with our own very important emotions.   Well at least it did for me.


You are in control of this.   Not him.    You have choices and options here.   I normally dislike this phrase but I will use it anyhow.   Take your power back.    You are not the helpless victim, like a cat playing with a mouse if you don't participate in the game.   I understand that it may very well feel that way, helpless and vulnerable, but I don't believe that is an accurate or particularity helpful reflection of reality.   The helpless and vulnerable feelings are more a reflection of PTSD type baggage.   That's normal, it's not going to be that way forever, and there are things you can do work through that.


blocking mail and mobile messages for 30 days is a good way to end this cycle of conflict that you have been stuck in for 11 months.   you have essentially been having the same conversation for a long time now and you have to be the emotionally healthy one, the one who takes the leadership role and stops what is a destructive pattern for both of you.   Allowing this to continue is enabling his dysfunction and is damaging to you.   It's bad for both of you.

And yes it will be difficult.  You will want to check, you will want to unblock.    This is like exercising a muscle for the first time.    You don't start off lifting 50 pounds, you start with 5 and work you way up.   Some days will be easier than others.   There are a plethora of techniques that will help to reframe and redirect your thoughts in gentle positive ways.

 C<||| drained is right.    Looking or unblocking is not the end of the world.   resist the urge to catastrophize.    there is no perfect way to live life.    doing what you have done over and over is going to get you the same results.   sometimes we forget that and have to learn the lesson all over again.  that's human.

'ducks

I stopped crying so much the last few months, but I'm very triggered right now and the tears are flooding me, but maybe if I stop fighting them it will be better. I've already checked the messages which upsets me further, but will take on board that this isn't a failure. I want to get away from his energy so much. It feels horrible, like ropes pulling me back in.

babyducks,  I cannot tell you how helpful this post was to me. I often feel as if I'm going in and out of the fog, but this made me feel as if I'm waking up.

.

Yes, learning has helped me to understand and makes me feel better, but I've also been making it an excuse for his terrible treatment of me. As if it gives him some sort of free pass. 

.

This is where I have difficulty as I have internalised all of his toxic shame and/or he has triggered all of my deep seated insecurities. This is why it's been difficult for me to get back into life. I am one of the walking wounded and am scared that people can see all the damage inside. For some reason I feel exposed and in danger.

.

I'm scared to focus on me. When I turn inwards I become overwhelmed with emotion and just sob my heart out. It's incredibly painful looking at what I've become.     


.

babyducks, this describes what becomes of me when I'm around him. I try hard to remain a competent, strong woman, with her own needs and wants and right to ask for them, but all to often end up feeling like a defenceless five year old having no choice but to go along with whatever he wants. I've always described our dynamic as one where I am struggling to keep my head above water, but all too often feel like I'm drowning. It's these horrible vulnerable feelings that are preventing me from venturing out and rebuilding. I am scared to try and afraid of being attacked, and then the part of me that has started to get stronger is completely wiped out.

 .

I've already failed, but have taken your advice and won't catastrophize. It's all ok. I looked last night and he wrote "Goodbye lovely, look after yourself. Get on the front foot. Please do the PhD".  This is the 'voice' he uses when he treats me like a child. It made me cry as it is a reminder of all that I've lost. I hurt myself by looking. I am, however, going to keep to the 30 days nc even if I look sometimes. I'm 'not' helpless.

So sorry you are going through this... .I found that in the end my ex projected what he was doing onto me. I think they do that as a way of telling you what is going on with them. I don't know this is the case for you or not, but I don't believe for one second he really believes you are the one doing anything wrong. They say if they feel it, they believe it... .I don't know. I was continuing to take the abuse because of my knowledge that he had a mental disorder. I think they use it at times... .It is so hard to know when to have sympathy and when you are just being played. He may be telling you he has BPD now as another reason to put up with his behavior.  Believe me, I miss my ex every day for the good behavior he had. I have to remember the bad behavior to stop myself from feeling terrible. It is very hard to get over these people, especially the longer you have been together. Please take care of you right now. I can't say this will be easy, but you said it as plain as day... .the disorder wins. It's awful. 

  You probably will sob your heart out either way.

I'd suggest that you try to focus on yourself in an easier way today. Just try to be gentle and kind to yourself. A hot bath. A good meal. Binge-watch something you like. Time with a friend you can trust. Get some exercise. That kind of thing.

Yeah, you will want or need to really think about what you've become, and where you might go, and a bunch of difficult questions... .but you don't have to do it this month.

I seem to really struggle with whether or not he means what he's doing. Sometimes it seem so calculated, like he aims to wound me, yet he is clearly disordered so maybe he can't help it. I flip between sympathy and shock sometimes.

I remember when my little dog was ill. He was helping me pay some of the bills. I went to pick her up after an operation and he said to call him when I got there and he would pay over the phone. The vets policy was not to release an animal unless payment was made. When I got there my 'fur baby' was so happy to see me, it makes me cry remembering it, because she died a few days later. I phoned him like he asked, but he didn't pick up. The receptionist tried a few times. We waited in reception and I was holding back tears because I didn't have enough money. He never picked up, but they let me take her home anyway. Later when I asked him he gave different excuses for not picking up. To this day I wonder if he meant to do this, if he meant to be so cruel or if he just forgot as a symptom of his disorder.

It seems to matter to me to know whether or not he means it, but does it really make a difference. The outcome I described above would still be the same wouldn't it. 

Grey Kitty, I'm going to give myself a break and binge watch something on Netflix. Today is hard.

The first step is to commit to 100% NC, then given enough time you WILL see things clearly enough to be able to have the confidence to venture out and rebuild; this is a reminder to me as well because I also am struggling with rebuilding.

It's taken me 11 months to realise that NC is the only way I'm going to get over all this. I'm now committed. You're on a similar time frame and are proof that it's a good option. We'll rebuild LN. Bigger and better. What choice do we have.

Hi Larmoyant


His wants and needs will always come first.

His wants and needs will always come first.   He will always define the terms.    He will rarely consider your feeling and will only do so if it serves his needs or wants in some ways.

Is it calculated, yes.  Does he mean it, yes.  He 'means' to protect his damaged self.  He needs to protect his damaged self at all costs.  His needs and wants will always come first.  It's not personally aimed at you, because, as I said above,  this isn't about us.   

In a healthy relationship there is a give and take, often negotiated.   


Yes.   Yes it would be the same.  |iiii


When a person with BPD has a free pass they will run to extremes.   I don't believe it's personally directed at us.   It's that they have no emotional brakes.   No governor to throttle down with.   They can't regulate.   Things will go from being wonderful, to horrible, to great, to terrible and all with in hours.  You know this.    And at some deep level your body recognizes this because it's paying the price with the fear, the tears, the feeling exposed and in danger.   Your body is telling you something.   

No contact is a great way to give your over taxed body a break from this stress.  It is a good way to build in some physical distance while you work on the detaching part of emotional distance.   Does that make sense?   Putting distance, physical and emotional, dialing down the level of reactivity, reducing the hyper vigilance that you have been living with are all good first steps just like   C<||| lovenature says.

I would suggest that some of the trouble you have had venturing out and rebuilding has been due to this long 11 month circular argument / abusive cycle you have been in.


Well, yes, of course you have.   We all have.   I sure did.    Yeah you are right there with us.    I've been reading your story for a little while now.   And I went back and read some of your early posts that I missed.   This is what I hear you telling me.   

You've been involved in this long circular argument / toxic abusive cycle.   For 11 months he has had a 'free pass' to run to his extremes and do and say whatever he wants.   For him this has cemented into place his beliefs, reinforced his opinions and convinced him of his own reality.   To be honest though Larmoyant I don't really care about him.   He isn't here trying to work on his stuff.   

I do care about you, because you are here. And you are working.  What I hear you telling me is this long period of toxicity has reinforced his opinions in you and convinced you of his reality.   

I would suggest it is time to push back against that.   How to do that?

We spend a lot of time here talking about no contact like it's the holy grail.  What I believe it to be a period of time where no more gas is being thrown on what is often a raging fire.   It's a simple truth that it's difficult to recover from previous damage while additional damage is being done.   If contact is abusive, and I often hear you describe yours as abusive/toxic, there is no reason to engage with it.

Don't have conversations with people are who are not there.    Attempt to limit or budget the amount of time you spend figuring out what he was thinking, what he meant, was any of it real.  That is keeping the wound open.   There will be time to unravel things gently and carefully after your own reactivity has come down.   When you find yourself thinking about him, gently and with out judgement redirect yourself mentally away.   Don't say WOW I am thinking about him again what the heck is wrong with me.    Tell yourself I find myself thinking about him again, that's good because my emotions will surface as they need too, I will redirect myself to something positive by; saying a prayer, singing a song, reading a paragraph from a book, playing with the piano.   whatever works for you.

and absolutely do what  C<||| Grey Kitty said.   Focus on yourself in small kind gentle ways.   Do something nice for you.   A trip to the library, a walk to the end of the block.   Fresh sheets on the bed.   An extra cup of tea.   Your reserves are depleted and it will take a while of gentle tender self care to build them back.   

my two cents, hope they help

'ducks

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Reflecting back I can see this. Sometimes he did really nice things for me. I seem to have clung onto these as some sort of proof that he was considering my needs. Small kindnesses, or even just [empty] promises, that seemed to show he cared, but in the bigger picture were just enough to keep me there. I don't think I'm being cynical. The small things were real, but he wasn't really there for me.

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It makes sense. I need to quieten down physically and emotionally and the only way that's going to happen is this period of no contact. I'm going to note down how I'm feeling now and compare it to how I feel on January 19, 2017.

. 

I'm still wondering what this 11 month period was all about? I hadn't really wanted to leave him. I loved him, I was hurting and wanted something to change. I think I was holding on and hoping that would happen.  I still want to know what he was doing, what the past 11 months were to him? It was all so strange. It didn't go anywhere, just around and around, a total disconnect, just more pain.

. 

Is this the answer. Is this what he's been leading up to? From our latest discussions it now seems as if this is true. He now believes it was a mutual decision to end the relationship when it wasn't. He was beside himself when I finally left and wanted me back. He's changed the story now saying it was both of us and that fate intervened. In fact, some of his emails even suggest that it was his decision. He's rewritten history. I don't know why yet, but this is causing me pain. Maybe it's my ego, all I know is this is denying reality, it's frustrating and it hurts. How can someone just change the story and wipe out how much they hurt you.

.

All of this makes sense.

I spend a lot of time trying to figure him out. It does help, as I like to understand, but at the same time I need to focus on myself or I won't get up again. I'm going to really try these suggestions and, babyducks, lovenature, Grey Kitty, Drained, Herodias, Lucky Jim, thank you so very much helping me get through this.   

Because they have a serious mental illness that allows them to cognitively distort reality so they don't have to feel anything negative about themselves; if they accepted their part in the failure of the relationship they would feel too much shame for them to bare.

  listen, mine came home one day and said he wanted a divorce. Then after pleading not to, he brought the first woman into our bed. Leaving me no option as this was a boundary. Then we saw the lawyer together for a legal separation and he cried. Then I asked if he wanted to go to therapy and he said, no too much had happened. Then I found out he was seeing someone else and I told him if he got that one pregnant we would get divorced- so he tested that! Then he asked me to take him back after he got her pregnant! I said no- he tried to put off the divorce and I went through with it. Then he told everyone I cheated on him! None of it makes any sense and there is nothing that can be done to change their actions. It's just awful- really awful. All we can do is try and move on from the trauma and pain we have suffered. I know it feels awful... .it gets a little bit better over time. These situations are just not the norm and we need to stop worrying about them and take care of us. It's tough... .hang in there. You'll survive if you want to.

I look at NC as a tool to help your heart catch up to where your brain is.

You know, intellectually, that this is a mess that is going to hurt you more if you engage with him. But you don't feel that way about him. Or you feel that way, as well as a bunch of others that would give him more chances.

That's the biggest reason for NC--so you aren't tempted to do something that you know is a bad idea, but know that part of you still wants... .while you give your emotional side a chance to get the message and realize that you can't trust him.

  It isn't easy, but you will get there. Maybe it will take a month. Maybe more. Maybe less. You'll know when you are ready.

Herodias, I've been following your story and I hope your court date goes well and you never have to see him again. The pain that must have caused you is truly horrible to imagine.   My ex used to torture me with other women, but I never caught him in bed with anyone. Thank you for sharing this painful memory as it's a reminder of all the anxiety, fear and mistrust. I don't want to live in that painful world anymore.

I don't want to count my chickens before they've hatched, but I'm having some sort of break through reading these responses. Grey Kitty, I am ready. In the midst of this hurt, I'm also sensing a very faint feeling of 'relief', at least I think it's 'relief' and dare I say it the beginnings of 'hope', not for the relationship, but for me. I don't want to be treated badly anymore, don't want to be raged at, tormented, put down, sneered at, insulted, lied about, lied to, I don't want to be at the mercy of his chaotic mood swings, pushed away, pulled back in.

Day 3 NC, taking it one moment at a time, but I am definitely ready.

babyducks, I missed this (bold) but it's so important. This is exactly what has happened. Exactly. Since the break up he has been true to form, putting me down, triggering all my core beliefs about myself. Feelings of unworthiness, of not being good enough and triggering my own fear of abandonment. I was left as a child. I've been fighting against this, determined to prove that what he says isn't true, that I am a worthy person and to please don't abandon me. Except it kept on going and him telling me what a terrible person I am, then saying I'm not so bad, only to be called bad all over again. No wonder I'm a mess. This is why the break up feels like the relationship. I allowed it to carry on for 11 more months. I haven't digested all this yet, but the penny has dropped. 

Remember your words.  They paint the picture you need to know. 

We are here to walk with you.  (I stole that line from somebody... .so mention must go to them whomever that was... .I like it... .so I'll use it... .:) ... .I didn't see a copyright)

Larmoyant,

It's so nice to hear you are doing a little better and that you feel a bit of relief.   Nice job.   and good progress.   It comes in tiny baby steps.   And now you have evidence of that.


This makes sense to me.  I can see exactly what you are saying.   This is two abandonments.   His, and the original from your childhood.   That seems to fit in all sorts of ways.    and that is (one) reason that this has break up has been so difficult.   

The way he processes life, his need to not feel shame/blame/guilt will always surpass your need to feel emotionally protected and safe.   That's the way his brain works.

When you guys get caught in this loop of: he need to get rid of his blame, and you need hurts recognized, it will always be a death spiral off a cliff until some one stops it.   

You've started to recognize it and that will stop it.    You are breaking the cycle.

You deserve love and respect.   You are worthy of it.   

I believe it's human nature to go back to the ones that hurt us looking for love and respect.    We are attempting healing.    I also think that what happens with us,  is that going back to the mentally ill creates that intermittent reinforcement.   Like a mouse in a science experiment sometimes we get the treat sometimes we get the electronic zap.   Never knowing we try harder, more frantically for the treat.   

and just think, it's only day 3 of NC.   :)

best wishes
ducks

Nicely said, ducks!  It helps me to look at it that way.

LJ

Wow- "The Disorder Wins" really sums it up.  I imagine reading that title really hit home for all who saw it.  I used to refer to my ex significant other as "Nice ****** "  or  "Mean ****** " and I always new Mean ****** was winning.  Do any of us ever win the battle? I lashed out at my ex and told him he was "textbook BPD".  It was not the best way to discuss things, but I feel if they have the information and still choose not to explore getting help, we will always lose.  The sadness that accompanies the thought that "if only they thought I was special enough to get help... ." is so overwhelming.  You were so kind to me when I made my first post.  Thank you. There is such loneliness knowing that pwBPD can seem perfectly normal and actually charming to people they work with or are friends with, but we are the targets and would not be believed by any of those who "know him". It helps to have this forum where we can have support and not be thought of as crazy or the bad guy!

The problem is that the more special they feel you are, the closer you get, the more they fear engulfment and then abandonment, and so they push you away. The more you try to help them, the more they blame you; when you tell them they have a disorder, they just project it back onto you.
The disorder ALWAYS wins, only years of the right therapy can MANAGE it-not cure it.

@ lovenature: Right, it's a lose/lose proposition at times.  LJ

This helps me too. I have little doubt that this is what I’ve been trying to do, heal from the past with a person who has a personality disorder. A disaster waiting to happen. After we split, and in a moment of seeming clarity, he told me that he was trying to be my knight but couldn’t seem to do it. I found it such a sad statement given that this is what I was trying to be for him too. Only I didn’t try to crush him in between attempts. Two hurt people unable to help each other. It’s sad.

I’d like to give a massive thank you to all who helped me in this thread and others on this board. I truly had a break through. It’s Day 6 NC and I’ve surprised myself. I’m coping relatively well and the promise of tomorrow has started to replace the ache in my heart. I read something that touched me “promise yourself never again to lay in arms that don’t know how to cherish the kindness in your heart”. I might just be ready for the detaching board again. A little hesitant because I’m still looking in the Spam file, with hope and dread competing with each other, but I’m working on it.

lookatthemoon, I remember you. Hope you're doing ok.

Larmoyant, I don't find much for myself on the detaching board either.

There is a lot of anger and fear there, and I think I got past that pretty quickly myself. (That my ex wasn't willing to come back at that time probably helped me a lot, but that was just dumb luck!)

I'm still sad over what ended, occasionally wistful for what was good, but knowing that there's no good path back I can take... .and I don't find much there which speaks to me.

I'm thinking of the kind of friend who will drink heavily with you... .and take your phone away from you as you try to drunk-text your ex (BPDex or sane ex!). I'm not needing that kind of support right now, but I know I can get it on the detaching board. If you do need it, I recommend going back there for a bit!

Trying to re-build myself in a way that isn't looking back at my ex at all is something that I don't think I'll find there.   I hope you find your way there too!