BPDFamily.com

I fell in love with a man, whom I thought was wonderful and perfect.  Things went very fast.  Everything was great at first.  We never argued, he showered me with attention and compliments, we couldn't get enough of each other.  I was happy and on Cloud 9.  Then, I found out I was pregnant.  We talked and decided to keep the baby.  I expressed my concern over becoming a single parent and he repeatedly reassured me that wouldn't happen, that we would raise the baby together, in the same household.
 
I became sick and moody for about a month.  He suddenly became very cold towards me, seemingly not to care about what I was going through.  Then he started pushing me away.  His texts and calls became less frequent.  The compliments declined.  He said he was going to move in with me, then the week he had to be out of his apartment, he changed his mind, saying he was going to keep it for another 2-3 months.  Two weeks later, he changed his mind again, saying he was moving in that month.  Again, when the week came to finalize the move, he backed out again.  He kept telling me that I was trying to "control" him, that he can't handle all the stress, etc. 
 
I seen him one day, he told me he loved me and gave me a kiss goodbye.  Two days later, he became enraged over something that I had absolutely nothing to do with and did ZERO harm to anyone.  He text me and told me that I've made some real progress and we were done.  Out of the blue.  Made no sense. I was hysterical, messaging him and reminding him about all of his promises and that I'm pregnant and what about the baby.  He said What about it, it doesn't need us to be together.  Very cold.
 
When I started digging around, I found out he had cheated on me AFTER we found out I was pregnant and while he was staying most nights at my house.  This was basically a one-night stand, afterwards he told the girl to not message him, that he was having issues and wanted to be alone.  It happened the same week-end that he told me he was keeping his apartment for another 2-3 months.
 
We have other children involved - his and mine.  They know each other and have spent time with each other.  He had avoided telling his children about the baby, kept saying he was afraid they were going to be mad at him.  They do know now, but basically because he was forced to tell them.
 
After sending messages to him calling him out on everything he did or didn't do, his empty promises, etc., I became quiet.  I went over 34 hours without contacting him.  I spent that time researching, trying to understand what just happened.  I then sent him a message, listing the symptoms of BPD that fit him to a T.  I also said that there is help out there, that life doesn't have to be so "hard", that things could be easier, if he chooses to deal with what is really going on.  His reply to me was "You know all these hate messages are not doing any good.".   I replied and told him that I did not feel it to be hateful, that I'm concerned for his well being and my heart aches for that good person that is in there, that person he has shown me.  He did not reply.  4 hours later, he sent me a text of a picture of a Buck that he had just shot while out hunting.  I replied Nice.  1 hour later, I received another text stating that he still has stuff at my house that he needs to get sometime.  I told  him it was all gathered and in one place.  He asked if he was allowed to get it.  I asked him to just text me first before he shows up so I make sure my daughter is not home.  He replied O.k... .That was two evenings and I have not heard from him since.
 
I'm confused, hurt, bitter, sad, etc.  He has never admitted to any mental health issues and refuses to take any medication, even simple Tylenol.  He said it doesn't work for him.
 
What does all of this sound like to the rest of you?  Should I ignore him?  Will I hear from him?  Will he try to come back? Just very confused.  Trying to sort out everything that has happened.

HI  dttjr4,

*welcome*

I'd like to welcome you to  bpdfamily. I'm sorry that you're going through this. We can't diagnose, only a professional can do that, what we can look at are BPD traits. I think that he has emotional immaturity and he lacks empathy, he sent a picture of a buck for validation but can't place himself in your shoes. What is your support network like with family and friends?

Hi dttjr4-

I join Mutt in welcoming you, and I'm sorry you're going through that, it is very painful and confusing, although not unique around here, we understand.


It's hard to see a lot of borderline traits in what you've described, there are some, but if you read a lot of posts and articles here, including posts you could have written because it describes him so well, then at least you've found some information that can be grounding and make the confusion go away.

And regarding what you should do, it depends on the goal.  Do you want to be done with it and move on, or do you want to try and save the relationship?  Because of the understanding of the disorder that has been developed over time, we know why borderlines do what they do, and that can be very useful to know moving forward, but best to get a little grounding and centeredness going first so you can decide what's best for you.  Please keep reading and posting if you see a connection, and we look forward to hearing more.

Mutt - thank you for welcoming me to the page and for replying.   What do you mean by saying that he sent the picture of the buck for validation?   I definitely have support, at work and home.  I have difficulty accepting it, I think it's a pride thing.  Everyone has stepped forward, reassuring me that I'm not alone.  But no one created this situation but me and the father of my baby.  We decided to move forward with this baby and raise it together, as a family in the same household.  Then essentially overnight, he changed. 

Fromheeltohea:  Thank you, appreciate your response.  To answer your question, I would love to see him acknowledge his issues and agree to get help.  If he did, I would absolutely support him. I would love for him to understand that he can break the cycle and find some happiness instead of repeating the same thing over and over and ending up with the same negative results.  I would also like for him to be able to be the best father possible to our baby. 

I've spent hours and hours reading, not only on here but other places as well.  It has definitely helped me understand.  Instead of feeling the hatred I felt, I actually have empathy for him and what he must be battling internally.  I can't imagine what that feels like.

Some people's stories, I feel like I'm reading my own story.  Some differences, but so many similarities.  I would bet my last dollar that he has BPD.     

I don't know what I should do.  Ignore him, try and get him to get help, reassure him of how I feel.  I'm lost.   

I guess I'm not understand why he would want validation from me regarding anything?  If I'm such a bad person in his eyes, one would think that would be insignificant to him.   

Over a period of about two weeks, he kept repeatedly telling me that he is stressed and can't handle it.  I would ask him what can't he handle, what is so stressful and he would just say everything.  He said when he gets too stressed, he shuts down, blocks everyone out and wants to be alone.  He said that gives him time to process what is going on in his head and then he usually feels better.   

When I confronted him about cheating, at first he denied it.  But then I started giving details that only the two of them would know.  Then he replied, "I don't communicate well, I tried telling you it's hard".   I said What is hard?   He replied I don't know, just everything. 

He has not even offered me an apology.  It's like it didn't happen to him. 

dttjr4: I'd like to join Mutt and Fromhealtoheal in welcoming you:

I'm so sorry for your situation.  You have a lot to deal with.  Pregnancy is such an emotional time, then to have your partner behave the way he is, well that has to be overwhelming.    Is it possible for you to get some counseling, with a therapist?  Good to hear you have family members or friends that can be supportive?

How old are your other children?

People with BPD, or with significant BPD traits, tend to dysregulate when they are stressed, or extremely stressed. Many times a change in life events can be the reason.  How long have you had a relationship with him?  Thinking back over past interactions, does it seem that you could have missed some behaviors, that were a problem?  :)o you know the details about his prior relationship, with the mother of his children?


Unfortunately, high-functioning people with BPD (or BPD traits) generally won't admit they have a problem, and may even say that others are the problem and not them.  He is likely trying to justify his behavior, by trying to blame you for things. He may even have a fear of commitment, perhaps making promises that he never intended to keep.

Perhaps the best approach is to give him some space right now.  You need to focus on managing your stress and taking care of yourself, as that will be best for you and the baby.  Sometimes it is best to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

We can't change others.  We can only change the way we interact and react to others.  Changing the way we handle situations can make things better, but will it be enough for the long run. You might want to think through and list some possible choices. Do you really want him back, if he has been cheating?  Are you able to resume a relationship with him, as if nothing ever happened, should he refuse something like couple's therapy? Current behavior is generally an indicator of future behavior, so you will need to be cautious about prevention and testing for STDs.

The links below lead to information about validation and presents it in different ways.  It might seem like too much information, but sometimes one article or view of something can speak to us individually more than others.  You are early in the learning process.  It can be a good approach to set up a special folder on a browser toolbar (if you use a tablet or computer).  It can be helpful for you to go back to information you find helpful or want to study further at a later date.

COMMUNICATION SKILLS - DON'T BE INVALIDATING
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

VALIDATION:  :)ON'T INVALIDATE
www.eqi.org/invalid.htm#Defensiveness and Invalidation

LEVELS OF VALIDATION
www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/validation.html

VALIDATION WORKSHEET
https://dbtskillstraining.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/week-7-core-pdf.pdf



 

Welcome dttjr4!


I can only imagine the painful situation you are in. And all the uncertainty towards the future.

Many BPDs have trouble sustaining commitment long term, and it could just be that a baby added to the situation triggered that commitment issue in him early on.

Ussually confronting a person with borderline with his/her disease is counterproductive, stirred up guilt and shame in them can make matters worse, unless they are aware enough and in a stage they see help as benificial and necessary. So they aren't doing any good atm.

But what to do then? What role do you still see for him in your life? And what is reasonable to expect of him regarding the baby's life from this point on?

Thank you everyone. 

He was married for 15 years.   He cheated on his ex two times, that she is aware of.  She said he has a lot of really good things about him but would get very selfish, self centered, would make financial decisions and purchase major items without consulting with her first, etc.  She said if he was upset with her, he would give her the silent treatment, sometimes for days.  She said they could be sitting in the same room and he would act like she didn't even exist.   He does see his children and have a regular visitation schedule.  I did notice that when we had his kids, he would be very uptight, quick to snap.  An overall agitated mood.  I would ask him what is wrong and he would say They stress me out. He would go from being overly worried to upsetting them, fearful of them "not liking him" to being harsh and somewhat cold.   

I have definitely been reflecting on things he has done and said and have found lots of things that were BPD behavior, things that I had no idea were part of such a bigger issue. 

He has controlled the direction and speed of our entire relationship.  It definitely moved fast, but it felt right. We just clicked, hit it off immediately, it was so easy and enjoyable.  I had no complaints about him.  He didn't annoy me, I enjoyed being around him every chance I had. 

When we first met, he told me that he's been told before that he's clingy but he just enjoys learning about his significant other and spending time together.  He was very attentive.  Calls, texts, going places together, etc.  But then that started to change. 

He did try to blame me for ALL of his changes in behavior.  Complained that I was trying to control him, that maybe I shouldn't hold him to such high standards, etc. I would get upset because we would have plans and he would change them without telling me.  He would make plans with his dad or something and I would find out at the last minute and usually only because I would text him to see where he's at.  I said Why can't you just notify me the minute you know something has changed?  He would say He wasn't trying to be inconsiderate, he just doesn't think like that.   He tried to say I was being different, that I was moody.  Then he would try the pity party route and say that he's not good enough for me and he probably won't ever be able to make me happy. 

Once I called him out on the cheating and gave him hard evidence that he can't deny, he stopped trying to blame me. I called him out on the lies and deceit and the way he tried to project blame on me when he was the one damaging our relationship.  He stopped saying negative things to me.  He became real quiet and distant.  I haven't seen him in over a week. 

Two nights ago, after he sent me the deer picture, he text me saying he still has stuff at my house.  I told him where it's located. He asked if he was allowed to get it.  I asked when, he said Idk maybe Saturday. I told him to just text me first so I make sure my daughter is not home.  I haven't heard from him since until just now, he just called me.  First time he's called me in over a week.

He said he was just calling to tell me that he's not going to make it over today.  I said Ok that's fine.  Then he went into explain that he and his daughter are  hunting today cuz it's the last day.  I said Oh ok, that's good, thanks for letting me know you won't make it.  Then he was telling me that they've seen a couple deer but couldn't get a shot    I said at least she got to see something.  He said Yeah.  Then he said Ok, I just wanted to tell you I won't make it today.  I said Yep, thanks again and we hung up. 

He sounded completely normal. I only asked him to let me know if he's coming so my daughter wasn't home.  If he wanted to be considerate and let me know he's not coming, he could have sent a quick text saying Not going to make it today.  He didn't need to explain where he's at or what he's doing or do it via phone call.   

The mystery continues, everything just adding to my confusion.   

Very familiar with this dynamic. I think he's trying to resume contact indirectly without working through the issues, via the device of retrieving items left behind. This seems to be a common approach of pwBPD after a big blow up/break up. My ex uses excuses to get back in touch, then tries to re-establish the connection without having to apologize or deal with why things blew up.

Hello  

What a difficult situation you are finding yourself in. 

I think Mutt can be right, and keeping you updated about hunting and so might be because he's looking for validation.
Letting you know he's not going to make it today may sound considerate from his part but it could also just be a way to keep in touch.  Maybe he does not *really* want to see you, but he feels lonely so he contacts you with a short call or text anyway.

Maybe I have overread something, but how long were you together with him ?
You are saying you have informed yourself about BPD. During the time you were together you also have noticed that  certain behaviors BPD have, are very unsettling and hard to live with (if not impossible).
You did not live together as a couple. I want to apologize if I would be triggering you with my question, but are you 100% sure you want a life with this person ?
My BPD ex was horrible to live with. We did not have children together (I had one daughter from another relationship). But if I imagine me having a child with him, and than him breaking up with me and leaving, with all that I know now, I would be happy he's out of my life - and of that of our child.

Again, I am really sorry if what I just said would upset you. I know you are in the midst of something that probably feels horrible for you right now, and I totally empathize.

How far are you pregnant ? Do you in some way also feel positive about getting a new child in your and your daughter's life ? (how old is she ?)

Hi dttjr,

My heart goes out to you for all the confusion and push-pull you describe. It must be very stressful, but it sounds as though you are managing it as well as possible at this point. It also sounds like you're absorbing a lot of information right now. That's terrific, although it can also be overwhelming. Be sure to take good care of yourself, with enough rest and sleep and healthy eating, etc.

I don't want to add to the information overload, but just want to underscore something patientandclear wrote:


I experienced the same thing and I wish I had paid more attention to it with my ex. I'm not sure it would have changed my ex's behaviour a great deal, but it would have helped me keep more of my sanity during the relationship. When you're in an intimate relationship with someone who exhibits this pattern -- intense push/pull, outbursts of rage, projection, blaming -- you can feel so grateful for normal interactions, that you allow all of that hurtful behaviour to go unaddressed. The "highs" felt so good in my relationship with my ex, that I would always welcome them back once the storms had passed. But this just reinforces the dynamic at work -- namely, our partners acting in ways that hurt and confuse us deeply, then pulling us back in without addressing any of the awful behaviour.

There are no easy fixes, especially if you're bringing a child into the world together. Naughty Nibbler has provided several links that can help you manage this dynamic. I know these relationships can be exhausting, and often it's easiest in the moment to go along with peaceful interactions whenever they're offered. That's not always the wrong thing to do, but beware of the relationship dynamic that can be set by letting him set the pace and the terms of each interaction.

Again, thank you everyone for your replies.  They definitely help. 

patientandclear:  When you say your ex would do the same thing, trying to re-establish connection, what was his purpose?  What type of connection?  Did he want to go back to the way everything was BEFORE, or was he just looking for reassurance that you were still there, in some form?  Do you feel it was a game to him?  Did he only want your attention to get it and then turn around and treat you horribly again? 

Everything did happen very fast.  We were together approx 5 months.  Like I said,  he controlled the speed and direction but I did not resist because everything seemed so perfect.  We never fought about anything.  He seemed very laid back, easy going. 

However, when I found out I was pregnant, I was only 5 weeks along. I am 16 weeks now. When I found out,  I asked him if he was sure he wanted the baby and the commitment.  He said absolutely without a doubt. He seemed happy about it. He teased me about having twins, saying he thought it would be fun  He signed up for weekly email updates about the baby's progress.   He's been to both of my ultrasounds with me.  We've talked about names.  He started remodeling a room in my house for the baby, but has now left it unfinished. We were waiting for some test results I had and the day I received them, I text him and told him I just talked to my dr.  He immediately called me, wanting to know the results, was worried that because I said the "doctor" called me, he thought something was wrong with the baby.   It was actually the nurse who called me and thankfully everything was normal. 

You see, I'm 41 and he's 40. So, I'm considered advanced maternal age and with that, the chances of chromosomal defects rise.  But so far so good.  My regular OB sent me to a specialist as a precaution, he even went to that appt with me. 

My other children are 22, 20 and 13. All the same father, I was married for 20 years.  He too has three children, ages 13, 11, and 7. All with the same woman whom he was married to for 15 years. 

I have been trying to absorb as much information as possible.  I NEED to understand to the best of my ability for my own sanity.  If I was just walking away from this guy with no future involvement, I wouldn't even try to understand what wrong, I would just move forward and consider it a lesson learned.  But I don't have that option.  I'm positive he will want to at least be in his baby's life.  He has regular visitation with his other children and is involved in other activities with them outside of the scheduled visits.

I don't know what to do.  Currently I'm ignoring him, not making any initial contact.  If he contacts me, I respond in a non threatening manner.  If he would admit he needs some help, I would support him and see how his treatment goes and take things slow between him and I.  But I can't accept him back - if he even was to try to come back - as is, with no accountability or plan to prevent future blowups.  I would be constantly anxious and suspicious, wondering where he's at and what he's doing.  But on the same hand, I empathize with him.  I feel bad that he goes thru this and would love to be able to say or do something that would nudge him in the right direction of receiving treatment.  But I know I can't fix him. He has to want to fix himself. 

I've been reading about how to communicate with pwBPD.  How to not argue or try to "win".  Keep it simple and pure.  If anything, if I can avoid allowing him to push my buttons to the point we get in an argument and he lashes out at me, I'm helping myself to remain calm.  Also, I don't want to give him any reason to blame me for this.  So if I argue and say mean things and lash out, everything will just be my fault in his eyes.  I'm not going to give him that.  I did at first, when I first found out everything, but I got it out of my system and now have to be the bigger person.   

You're truly doing an incredible job, dttjr, of staying focused on understanding his behaviour and trying to find a workable way forward. I admire your ability to keep that kind of perspective despite the emotional rollercoaster that you've had to ride.

Yes, arguing "to win" can be a lose-lose proposition in this kind of relationship dynamic. That said, just one thought that comes to mind here:


Again, you're ten steps ahead of where most people would be in your situation, just realizing that lashing out and arguing will only feed the unhealthy dynamic of this relationship. At the same time, it's important that you keep in mind your needs and boundaries and be prepared to enforce those in a non-confrontational, non-escalating manner. Just be mindful of not striving too hard to be the "bigger person" as that can also sometimes devolve into a form of power struggle. Sometimes you might need to enforce your boundaries (e.g. step away or put the phone down if he is treating you unfairly) for your own sake. Don't lose sight of your own needs.

Sounds like you have as good a handle on the situation as you could hope to have at this stage. I hope you'll find increasing peace and happiness moving forward :)

rfriesen:   Thank you.  I'm trying, trying very hard to handle this situation appropriately.  But, I don't know what is necessary appropriate in terms of contact, no contact, etc. 

I've already decided that if he begins to attack me - on the phone or via texting - I will tell him that I'm not going to argue and to contact me when he's ready to do the same. 

I admit, when this started happening, I had no idea what was going on, why the sudden change.  I played into it.  I argued back.  I pointed out how he was treating me poorly.  I pointed out the things he was no longer doing or saying to me, how he wasn't putting forth the same effort. 

At one point when we arguing, he said I don't know why I bother trying, I'll never make you happy.  I agreed and said probably not because I refuse to be treated this way.  I also told him a couple times that I was done, that I couldn't take it anymore, not realizing what was going on or that those words would actually harm him in more ways than I ever imagined.  Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't handle those types of situations in that manner.  I wouldn't say those things that might trigger him or escalate his emotions.   

But you didn't know, did you ?
You were not supposed to know how to handle BPD. It is a disorder, the people who have it react in unhealthy, not normal ways. You are in no way responsible for their emotions.

I admire you for the way you are handling this.
Is there time left for you to enjoy your time with the children you have already ? How did they react on the news of your pregnancy ?

Congratulations btw. The situation you are finding yourself in is not ideal to say the least. But there may be something (or rather someone) really beautiful on the way.

Fie:  Thanks for your reply.  No, I had absolutely no idea what I was dealing with. 

Thanks on the congratulations.  I'm having a little girl :) I'm 16 weeks so plenty of time remains.  My other children are old enough that they are fine with the pregnancy.  My daughter is happy it's a girl. 

I know I'm not responsible for his emotions but I feel for him.  I unknowingly contributed to his emotional disturbances and insecurities.   My ex husband of 20 years was bipolar.  I went through SO much with him but despite what he did, I stuck by his side and tried to help him to the best of my ability.   

Sometimes I think I forgive too easily.  I certainly don't forget and my experiences help guide my reactions to future occurrences.  But I have a soft spot for people with mental illness.  My son also has bipolar. Despite their diagnoses, they are still human and deserve to be loved.  They didn't ask for this.  The difference is those who are in denial and those who try to improve themselves through therapy and medication management, if necessary.   

I consider myself to be pretty resilient.  Something might knock me down but it's only temporary and usually short lived.   But I must admit, I think that what I'm going through right now is by far my most conflicting.  I seem to be having a harder time with this than I have anything.  Perhaps because it's something new and came out of nowhere, so unexpected?  I'm not sure but I continue to read and read and read and everyone's replies to my posts are appreciated and helpful.   

So, he called again today.  No real reason.  Told me in detail what him and his son are doing today.  Insignificant details.

He did ask me what's new with me.  He also made the comment "I haven't received any hate messages from you lately", to which I replied Nope, they don't do any good and are counterproductive so I don't plan on sending any.   

Then he continued talking about their plans today and he made the comment that he's had a cold and thinks it might be settling into his chest and if he's not better in a couple of days, he's going to make a dr appt. 

I did not ask any questions or offer any information about myself, I just listened.  Then he said Well, I'll talk to you later and we hung up. 

Once again, I'm trying to make sense of the situation and I am very conflicted.   

He called me both Saturday and Sunday.  Didn't really want anything, small talk.  Monday I text him and told him that I forgive him and I can see he's in pain.  He said What's that supposed to mean?  I said I empathize with what you're going through. He replied And what's that?  I didn't answer.  Then he replied again and said You don't know or understand what I'm going thru and btw I still have feelings too... .  I replied I agree, I don't know but I can see you're in a lot of emotional pain, impulsive and reckless behavior.  But I also have seen a loving, caring man.  Just know I'm here if you need someone to talk to.  He replied Talk about what?   I said Anythimg.  That was the end of the conversation.

Fast forward to today.  He text me and said How are you feeling?  I said Not bad, I have dr appt today.  He replied Be safe.  I said Thank you.  15 minutes later he said he might stop over after work to pick up his stuff that's at my house.  I replied Just text me first please.  He said Ok.   

I'm confused.  Any insight?   

I'm going to be harsh re this man. He has learned the right things to say by copying others, when he's calm he can manage to say them. So he says, Be safe. So what? Those are the words he's learned he should say, they don't mean he's thinking about your welfare. Extend this to other conversations.
A friend with decades of nursing experience tells me people like this care only about themselves, but they are like parrots, they have learned to mimic humans very precisely. I know my BPD friend went into chat up lines and other conversations that sounded like he was saying what he had learned in a script. Even when I said he was my friend and I already liked him and didn't need him to try and impress me. When I told him I was depressed, he simply told me I'd be OK. No stopping to consider, just a few words that didn't really mean anything, not even that he hoped I'd feel better.
Consider whether this rings true for you.

But what really concerns me is that there is soon to be a child involved. And that you've noted the unacceptable way he behaves towards the children he already has. I've seen pwBPD and similar disorders, and therapists, cite the behaviour of the father when the children were young as a common factor for developing the disorder. This doesn't mean the father is directly the cause, but he's certainly part of the equation, combined with the way he causes you to behave.
Now, I certainly wouldn't advise you to dismiss the man on this basis. But if you want extra reasons to break away from him, or if you are thinking of staying with him for the sake of the baby, then I would suggest you seek professional advice on whether a child would be better with him as a father figure, or better off without him from the start. There will be other male role models with friends and family, and you might meet someone else.

While this might be true of some interactions with pwBPD (and, let's be honest, many interactions with humans of all personality types ... .none of us is as fully engaged all the time as we might be, and we all learn behaviour through observation), it's not an accurate description of BPD to say it makes a person like a parrot. The intense inner emotional life of a pwBPD can lead them to attach very intensely, to care deeply about another person, to have very strong feelings about that other person that the pwBPD feels as love, concern, care, etc ... .but the nature of BPD means that a pwBPD will also experience intense fear of abandonment and that fear and the inner pain that goes with can make the pwBPD act in ways that are extremely manipulative and selfish. To deal with their fear and pain, they may well latch onto the most intimate parts of a relationship and use them to pull their partner in close, or push them away, in ways that feel very cold or violating, precisely because they are willing to manipulate or betray very intimate aspects of the relationship.

None of this is an excuse for their behaviour. It's important to draw boundaries to protect ourselves from this behaviour and to bring some stability into the relationship, or to remove ourselves from it if necessary.

dttjr, one thing I would say about telling him you forgive him and you see he's in pain --- however well-intentioned that is, it sends a message that he's to blame for what's going on, and that you're ready to be the "bigger person" and rise above the problems he's creating. Now, you might reasonably feel that's an accurate characterization of the situation. But it is also likely to trigger shame and resentment in him.

It is not easy to learn how to maintain your own boundaries, communicate what you need from him, look for solutions, be true to yourself ... .all while refraining from blaming him when he acts unreasonably. You're in a stressful and emotionally challenging relationship, so first of all you should always remember not to be hard on yourself and to show yourself some compassion if an interaction seems to have gone badly. That, said, have you had a chance to read through some of the information on validation? This could be helpful:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

This is a particularly compelling point, I find:

I agree with the special concerns Julia S expresses about a child soon to be in the picture:

At the same time, this isn't an issue you can resolve unilaterally. Even if you wanted to, you cannot exclude the father from the child's life against the father's will.

From what I gather from your posts, you're continuing to look for a way forward on the best possible terms with this man. As long as you remain conscious of your own needs and boundaries, and as long as he seems to be willing to make some effort from his side (however frustrating and inadequate), this would seem to be a positive course of action. That said, be sure to take good care of yourself and focus on your own needs at this time.

As I said, I was being harsh. And that's because of the child. It's very different having a mentally unstable father living in the same household, from having limited supervised visitation rights. The mother can absolutely make the decision unilaterally which of these she feels is appropriate.

Agreed. A difficult and important question moving forward.

It's also important not to dehumanize pwBPD as animals who "have learned to mimic humans very precisely".

And to be clear, I'm not saying that it's important not to dehumanize pwBPD solely to make a moral point. More practically speaking, it's not likely to help us understand the BPD dynamic and how to either improve our interactions or heal/take care of ourselves. One of the hardest things in these relationships is to stay focused on working towards outcomes that are healthy, rather than on the emotions of the moment and the power struggles involved.

I asked if we could talk on the phone, instead of texting.  He called me. I'm not quite sure what I was looking to get out of the conversation.  We talked, no yelling, never raised our voices, etc. But I don't feel as though he's taking any responsibility for his actions - namely cheating on me.  He's never apologized or shown any remorse.  He actually told me he has no answer as to why he did it. 

He tried to focus on the things I said that bothered him, but the things he was referring to were things I said to him AFTER finding out he cheated on me. 

He says he will never be unhappy again because he spent 15 years in an unhappy marriage and he won't do it again.  Yet he also admits that he was happy, up until the last month.   I said Don't you consider the stress we had added with the pregnancy?  He said Yes, I do. 

I even asked him if he would consider going to counseling with me.  He said Absolutely not.  I said Why, not just you, us together - even if it helps improve our relationship as parents to the baby.  He said No, I went once and it's a waste of time.  I said But you didn't go with me.  He said No, I didn't.  I said Don't you think the success has to do with the actual counselor and the people involved?  He said Probably.  I said But you won't even consider it with me?  He said No, I will never ever go to counseling again.   His idea of trying counseling was going once with his ex wife, sitting there pouting thru the entire session without saying one single word, yelling at his ex wife the entire way home for bad mouthing him and then refusing to return again. 

Firstly, re dehumanising. I was quoting a nurse who has a lot of experience with all sorts of mental and physical illnesses. Obviously, in their job, they've also seen the worst cases. I'm not at all happy with that view, because I believe everyone has a right to a good life. However, let's try to separate the behaviour from the person. The behaviours people with PDs have acquired are often not 'human' in a sense they are not considered with everyone's interests in mind, but are simply copied from healthy people, giving the false impression the mentally disordered person is healthy. And that is potentially dangerous.

My main concern in this case is the child. And that concern is that given what we know about common factors leading to someone developing BPD, if this child grew up with its father in the household, it would be a prime candidate. That is why I suggest getting advice from professionals on the matter. Under normal circumstances, both parents have rights, but not if their behaviour threatens the mental or physical well-being of the child.

You're doing all the right things here.
I would suggest re your own relationship, the fact he doesn't know why he cheated is a very big cause for concern. A healthy person would at least attempt a feeble excuse, and be sorry. Refusing to go to counselling suggests that he is afraid of finding out what makes him behave in this way.

My concern for you is that other than the option of banishing him from your life as much as you legally can, you have no choice in this. He has all the control of changing his mind back and forth about whether he wants to live with you and the child, and all the say you have is whether or not you allow him to be with you if he wants to, in the full knowledge it will be on his terms.   

Hugs to you dttjr4. Being pregnant with the prospect of being alone is very daunting, scary and lonely.

I had a relationship with a person with BPD. When we got together I was very clear on wanting children and so was he. As time went on - some 14 months I raised the topic of kids. He had decided he didn't want any.

I was 37. Childless and looking at the prospect of being 'suddenly single'. I was devastated. Needless to say we broke up for all those reasons you posted above - cheating, lying, hiding things from me, denigrating me and distancing himself from me with silence.  All of which I now label as abusive.

Fast forward 6 months. I decided to become a Mumma all on my own! Having gone through the turmoil of my relationship my decision came easy. I went to a clinic, bought some sperm and now 4 years on I have the most gorgeous, effervescent 3 year old who I adore with all my heart.

Has it been hard? In a way. Could it have been harder and more emotionally destroying for me and my child if I had been with my ex? Hell yes.

In the short term I was a destroyed person when we broke up. Now 5 years on I am a happy, content person who is more than happy spending time with my little sprout in a drama free, happy home.

I will be very honest and say that my home life as a child was fraught with so much emotional turmoil - I have chosen different for myself and my child.

In time we learn that we deserve so much more than an abusive relationship! He won't change however you have the power to choose better for you and your baby.

People show us who they are - we just need to take notice.

You'll be an awesome Mumma

Hi  

Just a short message to let you know that I share the opinion of Julia and Clearmind on being careful when letting this man into your life / the life of your children.
I am a single mum too, and although I think it has its disadvantages, generally I think it's awesome to live in a stressfree home. Without BPD in my life I feel my heart is more open to the beautiful things in life. But that is just my opinion. Please take a decision that fits you.

Kuddos to you and please keep posting so we know how you are doing.
xx

Thanks everyone for your responses.  It's nice to read other people's perspectives.   

In an effort to not allow myself to be on his yo-yo, I text him Thursday morning and told him the dates and times of my next dr appt and my next ultrasound, which aren't until the middle of January. Then I said I will let you know how they go at that time.  He replied K.    That was the end of the conversation.   

I decided I'm not going to allow him to call me or text me about random things because that just messes with my head.  I will keep him informed about the baby, anything else is irrelevant.   

I haven't heard from him since his K text Thursday morning until today, about half hour ago.   He text me and said:  The kids and I are going to stop by in a little bit to get the rest of my stuff.  I replied and said Im not home but everything is in the basement.  I am home but do not wish to have contact with him.  I find it very ignorant and cowardly to bring your children with you to do something like that. 

This is the third time he has said he's coming to get his stuff, let's see if he actually shows up this time.  I feel like he's Either testing me to see if I say I don't want him to do it with the kids cuz the other day when he was supposed to get his stuff,  I asked if we could sit down and talk. He replied idk.  So then I said Can you just call, which he did.  It was after that call that I basically cut off contact with him by telling him that I will let him know how my appts in January go - or, he's doing it with the kids cuz he knows I would never start ___ in front of them. 

I'm not in a good place right now to see his kids, I'm quite sure I would cry.  And I haven't seen him once since all this happened, I'm not ready to see him, especially with his kids with him for the first time.   

Stress is a giant killer that the medical industry has become more aware of over the last few decades.
I know personally how damaging conflict between parents can be for a child; please really think of what is best OVERALL for you and your child.
Most people today have no idea how truly important peace really is.

Just a short note to say that 3 hours after he text me last night, he showed up to get his stuff.  But for some reason, he didn't take it all.  Somewhat annoying because now I get to look forward to getting more messages from him about getting the rest of it.   

You probably know why he didn't take it all, do you ?
He's leaving some stuff so at any random time he can have an excuse (again) to put his 'foot between the door' and see if you are still buying his crap. Excuse me for my language, but this sounds so familiar to me ... .I have been in a similar situation. My way of dealing was : you left stuff, this means you don't need it.
I took my car, assembled all of his stuff and drove it to a place where they could use it.

If you don't do something similar, he will keep on controlling you through this. You do deserve better than that.
If you don't want to see this man again, you will have to be more firm with him. I would strongly advise you to start thinking if it would not be better for you as well as for your child, to *not* have him in your life.
You were not married to him if I understood correctly. That means that legally the child is not his, not automatically at least. He needs to proof first that it is in fact his child. In my country this can take a while. If in your country it is the same, since BPD can be impatient, he will most likely never go that far. Do you really want your child to be subject to a dad who *might* (you know him better than me) pull it one moment and push it away the next ? According to the mood he is in ? (I get the impression that he's doing that with his own children already, or am I mistaken ?)

This is only my opinion. I was raised by a BPD mum who used to push and pull. I hated it and it was not healthy for me.

I agree with everyone that he's not the type of man I want in my life or my child's life.  But let's face it, what would I tell the court?  He cheated on me?  That's not grounds to keep his child away from him. 

Also, I'm 99.9% positive that he's back online on a dating website, searching for his next victim.  His profile even states that he's not looking for a relationship or any type of commitment.  Translation - he's looking for meaningless sex to fulfill whatever emptiness he's feeling or reassurance he seeks that he's desirable.  Regardless, I think it's pretty darn selfish.   I'm pregnant, sick every day and I spend my downtime researching baby products, reading reviews, creating a baby registry, looking for names, etc.  It's honestly sickening.   

Hey dt

Have you looked at the co-parenting board? Many people there who may be able to guide you through the challenges you are having to face.

I am not saying I would try to keep my child away from him, persé.  I don't know your situation well enough for that. I would just not insist he'd take up a father role. I would try to keep away as much as possible, and f.e. answer very shortly and politely to his messages if he sent any.

I am not so sure he would insist to be in the life of your child. And if he did, maybe he'd do it just to keep his options open with *you*. It is also possible he will loose interest if he starts to notice that your messages stay short and are meant just to inform him, not to keep him on an emotional leash.
I guess now with keeping his stuff the message you are sending him is : it's ok, you are still in the running.
If you do not want that, you know what to do.


If I were you, I would not think about court too much now. Again, I am not so sure he would be willing to go that far. And if he did, he needs to proof the child is his first. I am a legal adviser, although not specialized in family law, but if I remember correctly from college, he also cannot wait for years and then turn up and claim a father role - even if he can proof he is the actual father.


I empathize with you very much, this must be so painful.  
After I broke up with my BPD ex, my friend psychologist (who helped me through the crappy times) told me : now it's enough. It doesn't matter anymore what he's doing. He can be on 10 dating websites, it's not your business anymore. It's time to focus on yourself.
She was right of course and somehow it helped hearing that.
Your ex can also be on 10 dating websites. Good for him.

Now about you. What can you do for yourself ? Do you have time to do something nice together with your daughter ? Does she go with you to your doctors appointments for ultrasounds and so ?
Did you put up a Christmas tree this year ?

Never feel pressured into putting his name on the birth certificate.

Unfortunately he cannot be what you need to you or anyone. In time it will all sink in. For now look after yourself and your baby.

Do you have a support network?

Thankfully I have my daughter.  She is the reason I get up and moving when I feel like laying in bed feeling sorry for myself. 

We did put up our Christmas tree.  I'm definitely not in the holiday spirit, but will make the most of it for her. 

She has not been to any dr appts with me.  They are typically while she's in school. 

That is definitely him on the dating site.  He's bad mouthing his ex wife and me, portraying himself as the poor victim.  Of course he makes no mention that he's going to be a father again. 

Dear lord, this is what happened with me and my exgfwBPD. I ask questions to get to understandings but her answers were short and don't add up to sense. We tried therapy under her rules (therapist was of her choosing and he was an uncertified "psychologist" and a hypnotist that knew it all; that's his specialty lol) but all I did and very carefully sit and listen but nobody really talked about the real issues. She acted so nice to me and making eye contact and holding my hand but when I was being neutral because I had to be reasonable and logical and communicate without having high emotions she, after the sessions, claimed I was really mean and cold and made her look bad. Like... what the heck... we're not trying to look good or bad there, we're trying to find understanding...

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it about me. I've been following your story and wanted to share some of mine so to relate. I find that when I'm on the other end I like listening to others' stories that sound similar so as to help me see from perhaps another angle or from a safer distance.

I feel for you. Hope you go through this in the least painful way.

Terrible what he's doing.
Try to see the positive in this. If he's on a dating website, it will probably mean he will leave you alone more. So you will have time to heal and concentrate on yourself and your nuclear family.

Thanks for the replies.  I too like to read other stories.  Sometimes it's crazy how similar they sound. 

I confronted him today about the crap he's saying on that dating site.  I told him he is making himself look pathetic and needy by trying to play the victim by bad mouthing the mother of his children.  Of course he just tried to make it sound like it shouldn't bother me if he's on there or what he's doing and he reminded me that we aren't together. 

I told him that I have no interest in being with him but it looks pretty crappy that I'm 17 weeks pregnant with his child and he's on a dating site trying to hook up.  I told him he should be focused on becoming a better role model for his FOUR children. 

Does anyone have experience or knowledge of sex addiction being part of a pwBPD?  He cheated on his ex wife several times, cheated on me, thinks nothing of having one night stands and after two years of being separated from his ex, has recently attempted to talk her into having sex with him.  And he has unprotected sex.  She told me that it doesn't matter how often he has sex, it's never enough.  She turned his messages over to her lawyer who in turn is going to address it with his lawyer because she feels he sexually harassed her - I will keep it clean and not go into details but the things he said to her were quite demeaning.   

He hasn't denied the baby to me but apparently he told his ex that he's not even sure if the baby is his and he wants paternity testing.  I said that's completely fine, I have nothing to hide or worry about, he's just looking for another excuse for his crappy behavior and the fact that he's not taking care of his responsibilities. 

Still hurts though.  I feel like a fool for falling for him and his manipulation. 

Hey dttjr,

i know how it feels to feel like a fool for them and their manipulation. My therapist one day said to me - "Forgive yourself. You didn't know what you were getting into. how could you?" And he is right. I didn't know what I was falling into. you didn't either. while it hurts, starting to forgive yourself can help.

sorry to hear what you're going through.

Thank you.  Forgiving myself is difficult.  I think about possible warning signs or red flags that perhaps I should have been more astute to. 

I'm my own worst critic.   I typically tend to be more cautious or suspicious. It typically takes me a while to let my guard down and trust someone.  With him, it was the exact opposite.  I immediately felt a connection, everything seemed so perfect, so easy.   

Please don't be too hard on yourself. We all did things we wish we hadn't. A lot of people on here did/do similar things as you, myself included. We are in this together.

There is one thing striking me. It seems like you are not sure if you don't want this person to be a father of your child after all.
I know how terrible it feels to find your ex on a dating website. But really, if you are sure about starting a detachment process, you will have to try to let go, step by step. I know how difficult that is. Maybe you can start with deciding for yourself what it is exactly that you want  from him. *Knowing that he won't change.*
I know you want him to be a nice, caring partner for you, who is there for you as well as for your child. However, that most probably will never happen.

Is it possible for you to maybe work this out with a therapist as well ? I recently started therapy myself, after for a very long time having thought I could figure out everything by myself. I must say it does help.

I am with you in my thoughts, and I am sure other members are too.  

I admit, I've been very confused and have continued to go back and forth as to what I want from him - keep in mind, this Friday will only be 3 weeks since I found out all of this crap that he's done to me.   

I've finally come to the realization that he will NEVER be what I need him to be in regards to a partner.  I expect him to be financially responsible for this child, just as much as I am.   If he chooses to be more involved than that, that's on him - I'm not going to push that issue. 

Perhaps it's the Holidays, but I feel extremely weak today.  The weakest I've felt in almost a week.  Just when I think I'm making progress, this happens. 

Find myself today overthinking and questioning everything again.  Things I've already come to terms with.   

Ugh

It was the same for me, I had no idea that a disorder was running it's course and that was why I felt so comfortable and was so open with my ex.-more open than with anyone else ever. Best to get to know someone well enough before getting too close I would say.