BPDFamily.com

When I look at the arguments that my wife (undiagnosed BPD) and I have there are some common themes -

argument starts with my wife talking about something that is bothering her.  It could be anything.  At first, simple validation techniques keep things on an even keel.  she starts asking a bunch of "what if" scenarios and also starts asking what other people are thinking, what their motivation is, what are they trying to hide, and so on.  At some point I get tired of exploring the endless what if scenarios because the probability of any one of them coming to fruition is so small.  I get tired of trying to figure out what other people are thinking simply because who knows what they are thinking.  She wants me to guess and speculate.  After literally hours of this my answers get shorter and less descriptive / insightful.  this in turn makes her angry.

she finds a way to link the problem at hand to me, my behavior, how I have wronged her, and so on.

its almost like I can see the embers slowly being fanned to a raging fire and I cant slow it down.

I understand that shame drives a lot of the BPD behavior and there is often a need to be right, to be in control, and to be perfect.  I also know that splitting causes her to want to categorize everything firmly as either black or white.  I suppose that I should feel honored that she initially trusts me to ruminate like this with me;  however my brain doesn't seem to be wired to work like hers and in the end we fail to see eye to eye.

I know validation techniques work.  But, am I trying to validate the invalid by ruminating like this with her?   

Have others found this type of interaction to be typical?

For me yes, I went through a lot of that. Endless hours on the phone. In which she would usually fall asleep still pissed off about something.
Or being asked the same question over and over but in her mind it was in different ways so it wasn't the same question.

Another member talked about just staring at the sky when they had these talks. I would stare at the ceiling.
It just never seemed to stop. My ex would say if you would just grab me and hold me it would stop.
But when I tried to do that she thought I was changing the subject or trying to dismiss how she felt.
So you just have to take it.

At one point I had gotten up and started cleaning cob webs off the ceiling, that escalated things, another time I started folding laundry. That escalated things.

You cannot win, you just have to find a way through it.

There were time where I honestly wished I was deaf.

Very typical - I started calling it "going down the rabbit hole".  H starts with what seems like a fairly normal level of discussion, and then it starts to spiral downwards.  I try to let him talk as much as I can handle and then add a few minutes for his sake, and when possible, end it by changing the subject, leaving the room/house to do something, whatever I can.  Because yes, ruminating is a big thing I've seen, and it leads things downwards to a dysregulation event - rage, moodiness, silent treatment, whatever.  

But, one thing I have realized is that H cannot seem to resolve his emotions on his own, or feel he experienced them unless he talks them out AT a person, usually me.  Like, I grew up an only child, and got used to talking things out to myself as a kid, when alone, to process my feelings.  I had no one to talk to, and to this day still feel a need to do it, often in the car if I am alone.  Might be crazy, but it helps.  I use this site in a similar way.  He does this, too, but cannot do it alone.  He NEEDS a human being present to accept his emotional barrage to feel he got it out.  This means if he is ain a bad mood, and needs to get it out, he may pick a fight.  He will never acknowledge he picked a fight, but I am learning that is what he is doing when he projects things onto me, like being unpleasant and nit-picky while declaring he is only doing it because I am doing it to him (possible if I am tired or ill, but I try really hard NOT to do that).

So, your W may be trying to resolve/express her own negative feelings, but not being able to own up to them, needs to ruminate and then argue over what the rumination "revealed" to her.  

So, the best thing I can suggest is find ways to nip it in the bud when you can - you won't always be able to change tracks in the conversation or just leave, but when you CAN, it saves you from being the target of it, and forces your W to develop a way to deal with it herself.  Hope that makes sense.  

ok good to know that once again I am not alone!

a bad habit I have is I will start to clean, or fold laundry, or something while she talks, because to be quite honest, I do most of the cleaning in the house, and with work and putting the kids to bed, if I spend 2 hours of my free time just sitting and nodding and saying uh huh, ... .that is 2 hours that I desperately need that I cant get back.  however the anger that ensues is worse.  you'd think I'd learn!

rabbit hole comment ... .that is exactly what I call it ... .and I have learned I cannot go very far down it... .if I do it is at my own peril!  I also experience the being "talked AT" perspective - I have described it in those words many times. 

I know I wasn't looking for a solution, just a comfort level that I am not alone in this regard.

thanks yous guys!

My uBPDH does the same. How can someone talk so long? How can they obsess over something for so many hours? He frequently asks me to speculate on someone's motivation and if I give him alternatives to the motivation that he has made up in his mind then I become the enemy because I'm choosing them over him.

I've tried everything to get out of these "conversations". They aren't really conversations because he is talking at me not to me. I hate it. I feel trapped. I've tried to give him awhile to talk about it, but then it keeps going. If I space out then he gets REALLY mad that I'm not listening.

I've tried to explain to him that he has been obsessing for a long time and that perhaps he should give it some time and maybe he will feel better about it when it's not fresh. I'm accused of changing the subject.

I've told him to just stop and let it go. Then I'm accused of not caring.

I've tried to steer him towards coming up with a solution himself or told him how he could fix it. I get attacked for attacking him. (Or more like he projects his helplessness onto me and I become the enemy).

I've tried to change the subject and I'm accused of being selfish and only wanting to talk about what I want to talk about.

I've suggested that he takes something to help him realx and I"m accused of just wanting to shut him up (Well, yeah, Kinda of.)

Overall, nothing seems to work. He has to work it out himself and unfortunately he requires me to be there while he talks at me/to himself.

Hi Mecaco, WOW, it is so common to have endless circular conversations. It is mentally exhausting. You are definitely not alone.

I had the same scenario as Tattered Heart last night. I get accused of not caring or paying attention to his one sided "conversation" just for looking the other way or down at the floor, or up at the ceiling. And the fact that the subject changes from one emotional situation to another every 15-20 minutes makes it hard to keep up. I mean, I just worked all day, then I have to sit and listen to negative rambling for another 2 hours? OK, that's me venting a bit.

I really try to use some of the tools learned on this site, like validating his feelings, listening with a neutral look on my face, and emotionally stepping back and not taking things personally if they happen to go south. Sometimes these tools work, sometimes not. I give him a warning if it goes on too long that I need a break. Or I go change laundry, wash dishes, anything to divert myself from getting caught up.

Question - How common is this?

This is "improving". You're asking a co-rumination question. It won't help you at all to identify how many others have your same frustration. In a way, the question is asking for the same self-validation that she is seeking when she tags you. See that? Hopefully you do because it will help to understand her better.  *)


She confides (however different) and you reject. It doesn't work. This is the equation to solve. Its not a matter of right or wrong, its a matter of resolving who you are with who she is in a way that you two work together.


It's interesting because this is a co-rumination topic itself  :)  I think this question has been answered in other threads. It sounds like you struggle with being or feeling authentic when you validate - the way one feels when we offer fake praise to a boss to get ahead.

This is sign that you need to really rethink the validation method. It might be best to use very specific examples of what happened, what you did, how it worked for her, how it felt for you and have members break it down.

I validate my gf all the time. I never validate something that hurts me or could hurt her. I feel 100% sincere in what I say. The sincerity is a really important part of it.

Hope that helps.

Amazing how similar the behavior is. I recently joined this site and I am seeing so many stories similar to mine. I can relate to both the "rabbit hole" and being talked AT. It drives me crazy as I try to be mindful of the situation as it begins to develop, then, it begins to go south and I practically start shaking these days (maybe because I am realizing more and more that this is her, not me). Yesterday, I spoke with her (on the phone) about some family issues she was having, I really tried to be supportive and use "I" statements. I was feeling as though things were pretty well under control. Then, when I got home and walked through the door, it began again, only this time it was full out "rabbit hole". I again tried to be kind, understand her feelings, be supportive and use I statements. I did the JADE technique, did not feed into it personally. Funny thing is, I believe this behavior on my part really upset her. So now, all of a sudden, I am acting different because I am not getting defensive or feeding into it personally. She must have taken this as me acting "cold", not being there for her, because she just continued to get more and more upset with me. I held my ground by staying mindful and not going there, but then next thing is the usual comments of "you must not love me", "why are we even together?". It is all so crazy my head begins to spin. It makes me want to run for the hills!