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Title: One problem when people with BPD traits pair with people with NPD traits... Post by: Skip on December 23, 2016, 02:44:39 PM People with Borderline Personality Disorder traits exhibit distorted thinking by over-idealizing others, and then completely devaluing them.
People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder traits exhibit distorted thinking when they go back and forth between over-idealizing themselves, and then completely devaluing themselves. Is this a dynamic that may have played out in your relationship? Title: Re: One problem when people with BPD traits pair with people with NPD traits... Post by: Curiously1 on December 23, 2016, 04:39:21 PM People with Borderline Personality Disorder traits exhibit distorted thinking by over-idealizing others, and then completely devaluing them. People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder traits exhibit distorted thinking when they go back and forth between over-idealizing themselves, and then completely devaluing themselves. Is this a dynamic that may have played out in your relationship? I'm pretty sure NPDs devalue others. They don't devalue themselves. They have a mask of perfection and if you criticise them well you won't be favoured by them. I would enrage my ex though whenever I'd mention things I wasn't happy about such as she can't help me out in the house or something that makes her think I think shes inadequate. I think the only emotions I really saw in my ex was anger, boredom or happy. The times she cried during a movie seemed so fake but I couldnt tell. Like I will hear her cry and cant tell if its laughing or crying but no real running tears down her face. Funny thing is I knew why she did it. The couple infront of us was being more affectionate during that sad scene and she needed me to pay her more attention. Sometimes I had felt like I was more of the BPD in the relationship with my ex. No I am not BPD but she kept insisting that I was. I actually acted out of frustration at times some of what a BPD would when she would say such things or invalidate my own reality. This was done using a lot of gaslighting and projective indentification. I think thats a term coined by Sam Vaknin... and why nons feel sometimes they are the crazy ones. High pressure situations or feeling like its hopeless to get through to your partner can make anyone lose it. Mine was not out of control or overt or lashed out so I thought that she had more Narc traits than BPD. She liked to see me cry etc. and would just stare at me like how interesting I am crying. It's really hard to say where she fits in the cluster B to be honest. She cared a lot about controlling others. A lack of empathy is there but not all of the time. I could interpret that as BPD or a NPD who can fake empathy when the need suits. Either way, what we had was quite a volatile dramatic relationship if we weren't on the same page with each other on certain things. I was being 'borderline' whenever I wanted to discuss certain things I didn't like about our relationship. She definetley cant be alone and literally told me she has fears of abandonment and cannot be alone however whenever I'd say I would leave if things wouldn't change, she would just say 'it was nice while it lasted.' But I think she was just acting cool because she knew I would come running back because I was pissed she didn't react how I wanted her to. But then when I really did leave for good I realised her doing that was just bluff. She actually was afraid when I was serious. When she didn't have another person she could securely attach to, that was the worst thing for her to sense in me. Wanting to leave her. Title: Re: One problem when people with BPD traits pair with people with NPD traits... Post by: shatra on December 23, 2016, 04:58:35 PM Generally both NPD and BPD shift between idealizing and devaluing themselves and others.
I would bet this would be a very unstable pairing, with lots of conflict, rage and breakups... .I wonder what "need" one would fulfill for the other? And they would likely shift, with one hating the other, and that triggering the other to split the other black... . I would also guess that infidelity would be the order of the day for both Title: Re: One problem when people with BPD traits pair with people with NPD traits... Post by: Skip on December 23, 2016, 05:08:18 PM Yes, narcissists devalue others for sure. *)
They [narcissists] don't devalue themselves. There are three core defenses against shame: narcissistic flight, blaming/indignant rage and contempt. Shame is at the core of narcissism. The point I was making was about the pairing of the two is: A narcissist adore the idealization of the pwBPD. This is someone that over values a narcissist even more than the narcissist overvalues themselves. This is an uber high. When the pwBPD over devalues them, it triggers the same and the devastating narcissistic wound where both are over devaluing the narcissist. A borderline can take a narcissist to a higher high. A borderline can open that shame and drive them to the lowest low. Some (few) kill themselves. I wonder what "need" one would fulfill for the other? It is one of the most common pairings. The narcissist relishes the adoration and, as one who struggles to get in touch with their own emotions, appreciates the openness and emotional availability of the borderline. The borderline is generally characterized as having problems with regulating emotions and thoughts; impulsive and reckless behavior, and unstable relationships with other people, appreciates the narcissist stability, strength, and direction.
Title: Re: One problem when people with BPD traits pair with people with NPD traits... Post by: once removed on December 23, 2016, 09:06:23 PM i remember her asking me why i loved her. i asked myself the same question.
i often came back to the answer, more or less, "because she loves me". which was to say, i felt understood. like somebody got me. like somebody loved me for the reasons i wanted to be loved. that made us right, right? i tend to experience shame with romantic rejection. she never rejected me. i couldnt do any wrong, in terms of maintaining her attraction to me. this was someone i believed incapable of leaving me. to say all this was a powerful hook is an understatement. i felt one up for once. and when she was devaluing me or raging at me or throwing the kitchen sink? id threaten to walk away. and then she did leave, and jumped in another relationship, and i put her on a pedestal, and felt my self esteem and confidence collapse. big time narcissistic wound. thankfully ive never been accused of being a narcissistic person. the dynamic most definitely played out in my relationship, and strongly. whether a person is high on the spectrum of narcissistic personality disorder or not, learning about little n narcissism, narcissistic wounds, narcissistic personality disorder, how these dynamics play out in our relationship, really useful stuff to dig into. Title: Re: One problem when people with BPD traits pair with people with NPD traits... Post by: Curiously1 on December 23, 2016, 10:03:59 PM i remember her asking me why i loved her. i asked myself the same question. i often came back to the answer, more or less, "because she loves me". which was to say, i felt understood. like somebody got me. like somebody loved me for the reasons i wanted to be loved. that made us right, right? i tend to experience shame with romantic rejection. she never rejected me. i couldnt do any wrong, in terms of maintaining her attraction to me. this was someone i believed incapable of leaving me. to say all this was a powerful hook is an understatement. i felt one up for once. and when she was devaluing me or raging at me or throwing the kitchen sink? id threaten to walk away. and then she did leave, and jumped in another relationship, and i put her on a pedestal, and felt my self esteem and confidence collapse. big time narcissistic wound. thankfully ive never been accused of being a narcissistic person. the dynamic most definitely played out in my relationship, and strongly. whether a person is high on the spectrum of narcissistic personality disorder or not, learning about little n narcissism, narcissistic wounds, narcissistic personality disorder, how these dynamics play out in our relationship, really useful stuff to dig into. I was the opposite. I wanted to know why I was loved by her. That was a question that was frequently asked by me because I wasn't sure why she was crazy about me at the start. "Its just a feeling" is what I got. I wanted to know why I was loved and that would aggravate my ex after some time. I kept asking her to describe what she meant. I even asked her to write me a love letter since I knew she was good at writing poetry about herself. I didn't understand her love for me and I now know that it was all pretty shallow. I was right all along. When I read the love letter it was all about how excited she was of our future together and what she wanted to do. Sorry not how she felt about me. She never described what kind of person I am or anything like that or appreciating anything to do with my inner qualities. She never asked me reassurance whether I loved her. She never questioned my love for her. She assumed whatever she was feeling was what I was feeling. I didnt think she could leave me either. She looked for a replacement I know because she sensed that I might leave her. Title: Re: One problem when people with BPD traits pair with people with NPD traits... Post by: enlighten me on December 24, 2016, 12:31:41 AM Only one problem? From my perspective theres so many more. My uBPD ex wife has married someone with severe NPD traits. Don't know his full background but she told me he had therapy for 7 years. Its a completely unhealthy relationship. She moans about him constantly and only idolises him when he makes a grand gesture. The idolisation is short lived.
I think they'll be together for the long term though. She likes his money too much. Title: Re: One problem when people with BPD traits pair with people with NPD traits... Post by: babyducks on December 24, 2016, 07:19:33 AM Hi Skip,
Before I got here, I had a very poor understanding of mental illness. I didn't know anything about personality disorders. What I knew about narcissism was a gross caricature that I picked up from a bad TV program some where. I had never heard about borderline PD. What strikes me over and over again is how we make the mentally ill 'the other'. Different from us. So completely different from us we describe them as 'those people'. I believe we are all somewhere on the spectrum. I am on the same spectrum as my pwBPD. I am just in a different spot. I have my own components of all or nothing thinking, perfectionism, and struggles with superior/inferior distortions. I did sometimes feel the superior person in my relationship because I acted better and appeared more competent. which could be narcissistic. On the other hand, what I do/did in my relationship seems awfully small in comparison to typically BPD/NPD behavior. I absolutely understand that my partner was often overwhelmed with self loathing and shame. I see echoes of that in myself. As long as I dislike and disapprove of myself, I will need someone else to prove to me that I am lovable by her attention and need. 'ducks |