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I heard that generally each recycle becomes shorter and more abusive.
I think I have an idea but for those who have recycled multiple times,
why do you think that's the case? Did your PD get worse and any ideas why? Has it got to do with no longer respecting you? Or that a pwPD just prefers someone new and you are just something to put up with in the meantime?
Is there anyone who has had a recycle which lasted longer than first time being with them. Had things work out and not get much much worse?

generally, it has to do with both parties bringing the same dysfucntional dynamics to the same failed relationship.

it also depends on the reasons both parties had for reconnecting.

from our article here: goo.gl/P4qIas


Why do we get caught up in cycles?

These are the questions we need to answer if we ever want the break-up/make-up cycle to end. Are we returning to this person because we are in love with them and the relationship has a chance, or are we returning to this person because they feel safe?

* Are we afraid to be alone?

* Do we have our own abandonment issues?

* Are we fearful that we cannot find someone as good as them again?

* Are we fearful of the next step (dating, financial issues, etc.)


Why do our "BPD" partners recycle?

It is hard for us to understand why our partner is expressing an interest after they left in a torrent of bad behavior (e.g., cheating, raging and telling us that we are a horrible people). "If they don't love me, why this?" The answer is much of the same reasons as we have... .plus a few others that are related to the disorder.

* Inability to deal with acute loneliness

* Severe insecurity / needing validation (from someone that highly values them)

* Shame / wanting to prove they are a good person (to us or themselves)

* Immaturity/Manipulation/Control - the break-up was just a way to get their way.

 C<||| Once removed

That makes sense. Thanks for the article!
It had already listed the reasons why I would recycle. Haha.
Specifically all four of them! and 1 from the BPD list. The shame and wanting to prove I am a good partner.
I wonder what makes us feel more safe going back?
"Recycling can become the “norm” in a relationship. with both parties can becoming conditioned to it after a while." - Sounds like one reason why. We  get so used to the way things are, and have well adjusted to the dynamic.
Change is scary. Even if we know the change is healthier for us long-term.

I think theres a lot to do with unresolved issues but my main thought is this.

During the initial relationship the non has the potential to be everything the pwBPD wants. During idolisation the nons flaws are not seen. once idolisation ends then every flaw appears and to the pwBPD the non has lied to them. then the devaluation starts and eventually the break up. During recycles the idolisation doesn't last as long and the pwBPD remembers the nons flaws leading to devaluation. If recycles are repeated then the flaws are remembered quicker each time leading to a quicker devaluation.

b/c their shame becomes harder and harder for them to handle, as their façade is clear to us nons by this point... .

the lovebombing and idolization are cliché at this point, and the damage already done becomes impossible to push aside, dismiss, or forget... .
 

Antelop I agree with you. Once you have been recycled once they know that you know what is behind the "masks" so to speak. Once you go back to a BPD you are not as easily manipulated. With my case I think when I had gone back I saw through all the lies so easily the second time. I started questioning the lies and it infuriated him. If I had ignored everything Im not sure if it would have had a different ending though. I think that if I had let him walk all over me he still would have left, as he would have lost all respect for me.

it's almost as though there's a script, and once the script plays through, fully, once, it becomes basically impossible to make a sequel based on the exact same plots and themes with the exact same actors... .

they thrive on two types of suitors:

-people who don't know them at all

-people who know them but have PROVEN they will tolerate a given level of manipulation

they will literally hide from you of they can (their infamous often-talked about disappearing act), once they know that we know too much about them and their dysfunction, and have rejected or put a firm end to the recycling attempts

Yes what is appears to me is that it isnt just about those closest too them knowing. Its the fear that we will tell and their secret will be out. It so bizarre the lengths they will go to to look like the victim and such kind giving saints.

Actually our last year was the longest we were conflict-free but that is because I was pretty much indifferent to her at that point. I had filled up my social schedule, likely to protect myself and was Spending very little time with her. I also had gastric surgery and she actually nursed me back to health which to this day I am grateful for. Had she dumped me during that recovery which was very difficult... .I couldn't imagine.

I'm sure things are different for everyone. I will say more than shorter recycles recycling in general over and over is what does the most damage because it conditions you. She always came back until this last time and I haven't heard from her in over two years. That took some getting used to but it also made me much more self aware. If this person loved me as much as they said they wouldn't dump me out of the blue and pull a 180 and tell people I was an abisive rapist. That is NOT normal. It also helped me not be jealous of my replacement. I did nothing to deserve the treatment I received and my replacement will likely suffer a similar fate someday.

I'm just better off and happier removed from the drama.  

Because they want to maintain an attachment with you more, and you know more so that an attachment with them only causes more pain for both of you.

This is a very complex question which has multiple answers. There are many variables involved in this. I lived, with an ex spouse, that has BPD for 23 years. The amount of time in a relationship with a borderline is directly connected to the cycles. From my experience and years of psychological treatment and much research. I have learned that ageing is a factor in the duration of cycles. BPD is a degenerative illness. The older the borderline gets the intensity and duration of a down cycle increases. At the end of my relationship to that individual it was a permanent, endless, cycle of BPD acts. lying 100% about anything and everything, 100% depression, flipping and twisting everything against me etc. One key variable in the cycling is how much you have proven to the borderline that you know about them and what illness they have. Once the borderline knows that it can no longer manipulate you and you know the whole truth about them, the game is over with you. The cycle towards you becomes permanent. My ex got to the point where she would not ever leave the home. Would not even go to the grocery store. Completely abandoned our children. Would sit on the coach all day. Would chain smoke cigarettes all day. Mostly just lay in bed or on the couch. That was the ultimate breakdown and permanent cycle. As the abused person learns more and challenges the borderline, the cycles get shorter and worse. If the borderline is not on medication this also shortens the cycles and increases the intensity of cycles. BPD is very different from bipolar. Bipolar is really more cyclical with variations of cycle length and intensity. True borderline does not have cycles of any consistency or steady increase of intensity. A borderline can and will cycle from one minute to the next. Just like turning a light switch on and off. There can be multiple cycles daily with multiple degrees of intensity. The most significant problem treating BPD is the aspect of denial. The borderline will never admit to themselves or anyone else that they have a problem or illness. The borderline life is consumed with the cover up. That is another reason the cycles become shorter and worse. Ultimately I learned that the only way to stop the abuse towards myself was to avoid, avoid, avoid, the person with borderline. I felt so sorry for that person for 23 years. That is what kept me in the relationship, despite the horrible abuse. It is very sad when you have to finally admit to yourself there is nothing you can do help the person with borderline. You can help yourself and your family. AVOID!

I am with enlighten me. Once a pwBPD concludes that the Non is no longer a suitable "complete me" candidate, all bets are off... .idealization ends and devaluation begins. The Non becomes a trigger after the initial cycle, triggering engulfment, so the pull/push cycle becomes shorter and shorter on each successive engagement.

Hi,

Our almost last recycle was actually the longest and the healthiest apart from the last, though that was shorter. But my uBPDxbf always knew about his issues but it was only then that we decided to start T together but that was because he wanted us to take our r/s to the next level, move in together and get married. That time we were together for almost 1,5 years with no breaks. We did have conflicts though but it was not at all as bad as it had been. So I would say it depends if you remain in the same dynamic or if you, both of you, are ready and willing to work on yourself and also a mutual decision and agreement to do so.

So what happens after the BPD/so figures out, and or understands (realization) that the "non" has figured it (her) out?... .and the "non" has decided not to "participate" any longer, the gig is up... .due to being feed up, or else in a state of "expired codependency" and goes "gray rock" on the BPD/so... .this is where I am now... .I am beyond apathy, I feel used up, flattened, and pretty pissed off actually... .I am sick and tired of being "sick and tired"... .enter "coping mechanisms"... .NO !... .too many boundaries have been crossed during attacks, too much damage has been done, so what happens now that I do not any longer give in, or give up, .and rinse, spin, repeat any longer... .no more "recycle"... .time to smell the coffee here !

So what happens now?

I think it's due to the fact that you're both more familiar with each other than the last time, and progressively more wary of each other owing to the last breakup. In particular, if the non finally gets wise to the pwBPD manipulations, and if the pwBPD senses this, they will devalue and discard you as a defense mechanism from being exposed. They cannot tolerate the ugly picture of themselves that you are now reflecting back at them. Unlike reasonable human beings they won't choose to reconcile for their own poor behaviour, but will blame shift and destroy the relationship. It all really makes a lot more sense when you stop looking at them as mature adults and rather see them as a 'problem child'. What would a messed up child do? Things start to add up then I find.

Also just to add to this, if the pwBPD senses that you're happy with things (even if they've displayed poor behaviour), they might not discard. They're constantly testing and seeing what they can get away with. If they sense they've gotten away with it, they'll pretend like nothing ever happened, and make you feel like you're the over sensitive person for wanting them to take your feelings into account at all.

Couldn't have hit the nail harder on the head.

I worked with my pwBPDex, I was new to the job, she reeled me in before long (she was and is absolutely stunning) and with hindsight, the first r/s would've been just as short as the 2 week recycle that came later if I knew half of what I knew the second time around. Speaking to mutual colleagues on a night out much later, it was illuminating hearing what people had to say about her; that she was messed up, extreme low self esteem, that she sabotages every good thing that happens to her, that they wanted to 'warn' me about her etc. etc.

I felt a bit of an idiot about it because I was kept so in the dark about what she's actually like. I felt like everyone knew the score except me.

Has been quite the eye-opener though, I was previously 100% trusting in people until given evidence to the contrary. Sadly, I don't think I can ever enter into a relationship with this mindset again.

I think the progressive (with each recycle) accumulation of shame has something to do with it, but it's far from the only factor.

I think this is spot on!

Quote from: PretentiousBread on May 14, 2019, 07:59:39 PM
I think it's due to the fact that you're both more familiar with each other than the last time, and progressively more wary of each other owing to the last breakup. In particular, if the non finally gets wise to the pwBPD manipulations, and if the pwBPD senses this, they will devalue and discard you as a defense mechanism from being exposed. They cannot tolerate the ugly picture of themselves that you are now reflecting back at them. Unlike reasonable human beings they won't choose to reconcile for their own poor behaviour, but will blame shift and destroy the relationship. It all really makes a lot more sense when you stop looking at them as mature adults and rather see them as a 'problem child'. What would a messed up child do? Things start to add up then I find.

Also just to add to this, if the pwBPD senses that you're happy with things (even if they've displayed poor behaviour), they might not discard. They're constantly testing and seeing what they can get away with. If they sense they've gotten away with it, they'll pretend like nothing ever happened, and make you feel like you're the over sensitive person for wanting them to take your feelings into account at all.
I think this is spot on!There is also another side, possibly only for idiots who are Co-dependent (yes, me).
My ex has stalked me online constantly. It's been five years and she has gotten into my Amazon account, Facebook, and OneNote account and many more. This was after SHE got a 5 year restraining order.
After the restraining order, being a ghost seemed the best option.
The restraining order was what ended it permanently. There are other factors, some which I still would rather not discus.
My life is back on track, but still worry for her. Hence being here. Co-dependent dingles like myself, we are an endless supply. That is hard for someone like her to give up. She has not been able to move past that supply.
At 37, going to UW Seattle. Something that should have been done 15+ years ago.
Her life has fallen apart. From weight gain to losing jobs (she had been at the same job for 10 years prior).
The biggest fear, she will convince me to come back and do it all again.

To where this is going. This part is hard to explain. If we were in a relationship again, I would treat her very poorly. She would probably be ok with this, odd as that is to anyone not BPD. I accepted her through things that should never be accepted. She was very physically abusive. Breaking up with her was the point where trust was lost on this side, would never have done it otherwise. She now trusts me because my breaking point was so high, sticking with a PwBPD when they are at their worst wins them over - eventually - first you have to say no. PwBPD are an odd sort, they will break the relationship to see if you are unbreakable and not simply someone to be used.
Being at the point where I would treat her poorly, that is almost ludicrous. Treating everyone well, even when they treat you poorly; is the co-dependent mantra.
Don't be an idiot and return to what takes you down.

Very good question. I was raised by a mother with BPD, have two siblings and other relatives with BPD. I think that there are two factors involved that are connected. One is that with time the person with BPD has more meltdowns and longer periods of bad moods due to the results of not dealing with their disorder. It is like the alcoholic or drug addict that has to face years of denying their addiction. Second is that as a person with BPD gets away with more bad behaviors with the persons that they are close to and feel more comfortable acting out in front of without getting the desired results, than their mistreatment of others increases out of frustration and just overall being more and more unhappy and out of control.

It was a while since my first post on this thread. Since then Ive had things happen that make me think it might be something different at work. pwBPD normally have anxiety issues and a fear of intimacy may be at work. When we get too close then they retreat. They push us away, start arguments and even run. This is because theyre scared. Scared they may have revealed too much to us. They retreat to their safe place. This doesnt mean they dont miss us. On the contrary we mean a lot to them. When they come back it doesnt take long before the feelings of fear start up again and then the cycle starts again.

Enlighten me,
Your description of people with BPD's fear of intimacy as a factor in recycles becoming shorter and worse really resonates with me. My family members with BPD frequently either privately or to the person's face that they have a close relationship with suddenly complain about the person being around even though they are not really even interacting in any meaningful way. My mother with BPD used to invite her sister for Christmas every year and then constantly complain before and after the visit about my aunt being there even though she was a considerate kind helpful house guest who did her best not to offend mom in any way. I have seen my siblings and cousins with BPD act like this as well. One of my challenges has been to learn that my relatives with BPD are threatened by intimacy and they are much more comfortable with distant superficial relationships.

Each recycle become shorter and worse because they know longer need to impress you. Likely they are swinging back-and-forth between you and your replacement. At this point you were only kept around until the new supply is  secured. They will do this with everybody it’s nothing personal and certainly not a reflection on you

I think there's also a rigidity where they can't see their way out of an approach that doesn't work because it doesn't feel right to do anything else.

Years out now, I see how truly insane it was. How could a reasonable person try that over-and-over, and how could I as a partner accept that when it tore things apart even more? I'm healed to the point that I know now that such drama isn't for me. Not long ago, I got a wiff of it from someone who wanted to be friends with me, and I put some distance there. Not my cuppa any more.

This is spot on. Disordered individuals hold and treat people like objects or possessions. They hold people close like an object they need, then when they lose them, they panic and need them back again. When the disordered individual loses something in his or her life, that was a possession to him or her, an object if you will...and now he or she lost that, so he or she feels a loss of that object. At this point the disordered individual associates you with his or her loss, because it reminds him or her of you. He or she feels the loss of you out of his or her life, so that is why they will contact you, to get back that other lost feeling he or she has.

Also, the recycle becomes shorter and worse because now they are aware of triggers that you bring to them essentially as well. Please also keep in mind...you the non disordered individual has the power over the relationship actually. Instead of trying to always figure out how to get back the person or how to improve the relationship learn from what didn't work before. Basically, you have the control and the power to change the relationship...the disordered individual does not. The only way that can happen is if they are in therapy and getting proper help and even then there are no guarantees.

So always decide what you truly want for yourself. Approach with the relationship with ripple effect decision making in mind and also be wary of the notion that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

why does each recycle become shorter and worse?

most (a little more than 60%) of relationships in general recycle once, maybe twice. people have second thoughts. this is normal, in a moderately healthy category.

recycling multiple times is a clear sign that the relationship is dysfunctional. recycling, itself, becomes dysfunctional at a point. it means that both parties are in a position where the relationship is too good to leave, too bad to stay, and so instead, the foundations just keep cracking until theyre beyond repair.

trust is diminished each time. conflict becomes more protracted. breaking up becomes a way of solving conflict. getting back together becomes a way of solving conflict.

i think sometimes this has less to do with BPD specifically, more about two people unable to leave or resolve a broken situation. it stands to reason that it would only get worse.

Some of it is their rigidity. People with diagnosed BPD are known to be very rigid unless they take concrete steps to work on that. They believe that they can right the wrong that way, and so they keep doing it. The recovery definition of insanity applies here -- "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome."

They expect that you will somehow make it right this time, but the problem is within them and with the dynamic with you. Apart from them truly getting help or breaking up, you're just going to keep recycling. It's desperation on their part and deep denial in both partners minds. As others have said, many years together are going to set the recycle as the conflict pattern for your relationship. I've also read that age-related changes to the brain can make this even harder. 

It can get to the point that you are recycling almost daily and even several times a day. Insanity indeed.