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I feel the original post about this issue was probably too long and confused.

So I'll keep this question shorter, to address an issue that could help others as well.

So me and my ex GF (probably pwBPD) split up 4 months ago for the 3rd time.

How to reconnect with her after she split on me because I was late at our meeting (there are other reasons why she did that), 4 months of NC, blocked on WA and INSTA, and a new boyfriend?

We were talking to go live together and get married just a few days before, so it makes sense that I don't want to give up.

But of course I don't want to push her or harass her, so I'm asking for your advice on what to do.

I didn't text her for like 4 months, until I finally reached out again with a bouquet of flowers and a love letter (simple and a bit funny), but I just got her new bf texting me he will go to the cops if I text her again.

Would you:
1) Do nothing. Just wait and maybe she will change her mind (I'm afraid she won't)
2) Send her an email asking why she reacted like that, how she feels and if we can talk about it
3) Send her another long email this time address all the relationship issues we had, apologizing, telling her I do understand and I take responsabilitly, telling her how much I love her, and committing myself with her for a serious future together)
4) Wait a bit and send her a random email saying something totally unrelated to just restart the conversation (this is exactly what she does when she was reconnecting with me the previous times)
5) Any other idea would be appreciated. Thank you

I'm desperate and I don't want to mess up again!

Pls help me guys :)

Good idea  :).  I went back and read your original for background. It helped.

How to contact her is a tough one. You have been advised twice, by third parties that she feels contacting her is harassment and that she is considering contacting the police. That's a hard "stop". Contacting her again will just raise the wall of resistance higher.

The hard part to see is that after you two split, you had entirely different 120 day experiences. Your experience ended up having you reconsider the idea of reconnecting. Her 120 day experience did not land at that the same place at day 120. She may have been sitting by her phone for a month waiting to hear from you and then mourned the relationship. People with BPD traits take rejection hard. At the same time, she may have done some dating like you did. but happened on someone that she kinda likes.

That's why the flowers got such a negative reaction. For example, if the flowers showed up at the workplace, everyone would be pressing her on who sent them and why. Co-workers often make a fuss when flowers show up and ask questions. The new boyfriend may have seen them and is questioning her.

That said, number 2, 3 and 5 aren't likely to work now.

Most relationships fail in 90 days, so if she is in one, it may fail soon. Waiting could work. However, if she took the end hard and is resentful, she may be done. Hard to say.

Never say never. I read here about people showing back up a year later. I rekindled a relationship 4 years after a breakup myself.

Do you know anyone that you trust that has some insight into her world?

Hi my friend and thank you so much for taking the time to write these words.

It helps a lot.

In this situation, I have nobody to talk with as my friends don't understand what I'm going through and just kinda look at me wondering if I'm crazy cuz I want her back.

So this forum helped tremendously last time and after a while she texted me back again.

This time might be much worse honestly that's why I'm worrying a lot and I would do something.

The waiting is killing me.

You are right, I should have probably insisted more in the beginning, but I was also wounded by her hard treatment which has gone really harsh on me this time and ended up setting me up for failure and discarding me after I made so much effort to see her. I apologized many times, I was trying to resonate with her but it didn't work to stop the blaming on me.

I then started working on myself really hard to fix these things I was carry on my shoulder for such long time and that were destroying my life and our relationship. Then I was feeling very bad for the rest of the time and I reached out as soon as I could. It wasn't easy for me to step back again and take this action after I did already so many apologies and never got one from her side. But I really want to make this work. I know we can succeed if we want to, and I love her very much.

The (funny) thing is that she is now with this guy who is much younger than me and has absolutely nothing she was looking for, except he is an old friend and they live close, so he is much more present than me and this is a good point for him. But besides that, I don't think they have much in common honestly, as she always categorically told me she feels nothing more than a friendship for him. He was sticking around trying to be with her for a long time, and I knew it but never said anything because I trusted her. Maybe she changed her mind or she just felt alone and wanted someone closer to take care of her. Idk honestly but I feel this could be a real threat cuz it's not just a random guy. I think they started dating recently.

So just a simple email asking "How are you, can we talk please?" it's a bad idea?

I spent like 3 days putting together some very beautiful things I want to tell her...

For your information, last time was pretty harsh as well (slightly less honestly), but she also threatened to call the cops if I would ever text her again and she started dating an ex bf of her. After a month or two she texted me and we restarted talking like nothing ever happened. She is much younger than me, so I guess it's also understandable that she might get disappointed with her only serious bf and want to test other options (she never had another long lasting relationship like ours), before settling with someone for good.

I'm in a very similar position, and invested in seeing how your breakup and possible reconnection plays out. 

In my case we've been broken up for just shy of 2 years and I've been blocked on everything except email. 

Like you, our history of push/pull and mixed signals have made this breakup hard to accept as permanent. During the relationship we had multiple breakups where she said that she'd never speak to me again, and in the second to last breakup told me "never contact me again" only to unblock a couple of weeks later and say that she wanted me to fight for her. So while this is a different ballgame, two years into being iced out, it's hard to accept and believe that this is forever. Every individual is unique, but there are far more stories on this board and elsewhere that say something to the effect of "it's never really over until the Non finally shuts the door" and "they always come back, even years later" than there are stories of pwBPD being done forever.

I'm interested in what other wiser and more experienced people on this board tell you, but here's my blind leading the blind advice:

4 months doesn't seem like much time and hardly indicates to me that this is permanent, and that your cycles won't continue. If I still believe I have a shot at 2 years, I definitely think you have a shot at 4 months.

None of your courses of action sound like a good idea to me. Having her current bf threaten to call the cops is very extreme. At worst you can get the cops called and at the minimum I think you reaching out will be fodder for her to talk about her "psycho ex" and bond with her current bf more. Some of the stuff I've read about triangulation is interesting.

My advice, again blind leading the blind, would be to do nothing, wait for this relationship she's in to fizzle (or go down in flames) which it almost certainly will, at which point you may hear from her.

Or take your approach #4 and reach out with something lowkey and random, but much further in the future, when you're more confident that she's not dating somebody and when emotions have cooled off and she may see you in a better light. 

I'm rooting for both of us and very curious to see how your story unfolds. 

Well said, Caleb91. I'd underscore this by saying, even if you send her a gold bar, her first reaction is going to be that you don't respect her and this is all about what "DeeplyLovingHer" wants - not what she wants.


Four months and BF is too long for flowers and poetry, but as Caleb91 says, it doesn't mean game over. It does mean that you be best advised to play the long game (not the short).


I'd set it aside and revisit in the future to refine it so you have it when the time is right. When she has expressed interest...

There are three elements of romantic gestures... the gesture, the place, and time. You have to get all these right. It's one thing to send unexpected flowers on an anniversary to the workplace - quite another to send them after an infidelity. Same flowers - very different reception.

Hi everyone and thanks for your advice.

I just went through our last conversation.
We were supposed to meet and she told me not to go, then she blocked me on WA and I reached out via email.
We had an exchange of like 20 emails, where I was saying I was going to see her, no matter what.

And she replied not to go like 10 times, threatening twice to call the cops, but in the end, we met each other and had dinner together. She was really mad at me and at the end left my car while we were still talking. I never seen her again since then.

This time it's different tho, as it was her bf saying this so I don't know how the threat could be seen. Sometimes honestly I'm also thinking that it's kinda crazy I can't defend myself against all this emotional damage I've gone through.

Can you please take this info into account and advise me once again regarding sending a simple email with a text like this:

"Hey X, how are you doing?
I hope I'm not bothering you, but I can't stop thinking about what happened last time. I'm still holding onto hope for us because you mean the world to me. I'm really sorry about our argument and I've tried to apologize in every way I can. I take full responsibility for any pain I may have caused you.

I've spent the last four months grieving in silence, waiting for you to reach out. During this time, I've been working on myself, focusing on my health, and addressing the root causes of our disagreements.

I've had time to reflect on us, and there's something important I want to share with you that I think you'll be happy to hear. If you decide you don't want to see me after this, I'll accept it and move on. But please, let's talk like the mature adults we are, who shared so much love for a long time.

We had great plans and dreams for the future, and I really want to make them happen. Even if we've broken up, I think we deserve a decent conversation to make things right. I want to listen and understand how you feel. I care about you deeply, I still love you with all my heart, and it hurts every day not having you in my life.

I'm not trying to rush you or put any pressure on you, but I hope we can make this happen. I just want to do something nice and kind for you. Whenever you're ready, I promise you won't regret it. I miss you and I love you!"

An alternative version, the other way around very much lowkey, could be like this:

Hey X, how are you doing? I'm heading to City X for work next week (which isn't far from where she lives). On my way back, I'd love to stop by your town and have lunch with you. I've booked a place for us on this day at this time. I've had some time to think about us, and there's something important I want to share with you that I believe will make you happy. If you decide you don't want to see me after this, I'll respect your decision and move on. But let's have a mature conversation, considering all the love we've shared. I really want to understand your thoughts and feelings, and why you decided to break up with me. I care about you a lot and hope we can make this happen. I love you!

How is this? Good? Bad? Too long and overwhelming? Or can kinda work? Maybe a mix of the two? Or still better do absolutely nothing for a while and try this in a month or two? On one hand I'm afraid their relationship could consolidate and my chances fall deeply, and my depression increase. On the other hand I can hope the initial idealization of the new bf will fade over time and my chances will be higher. Which is my best bet in your opinion?

I want to thank you with all my heart for your support!

Hey DeeplyLovingHer, thanks for filling out some more background on the last time you two met up. I think that'll be really helpful for the group to understand your situation.


That's a pretty intense last interaction and that's important context for decision-making going forward.

If I were a female in that situation, and I was having mixed feelings/thoughts towards a partner -- mostly negative, but maybe I was curious if we could get some closure if I just gave in and met in person -- or maybe I hoped that if I just agreed to meet in person, some of the "good parts" of my partner would be there -- it would be really, really easy for that last interaction to confirm to me what Skip is warning about here:


We can be inadvertently invalidating (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0) and can accidentally shoot ourselves in the foot as we let our anxieties and preoccupations about our partners "drive the car".

This is a steep hill to climb back from, and doing/saying/communicating anything that reminds her of that last encounter would seem pretty counterproductive, at least to me where I'm sitting at the computer.

What will remind her of that last encounter isn't the specific words, necessarily, but more the tone/feel/focus/frequency/"invitedness" of communications. My thought is that if communications from you focus on you and your feelings, and feel intrusive or uninvited, she may mentally go right back to "that's just who he is, because he doesn't take no for an answer and steamrolls my boundaries". Not saying who is right or wrong here -- just pointing out that whatever your intention, communication that's about you and what you want and how you feel can come across that way.

...

I appreciate you sharing your drafts for feedback. I think that's really wise to get other eyes on those before making any decisions.

To me, the first draft would be a non-starter. It feels like it's about you, and that's how the last encounter likely felt to her.

The second draft is getting closer to effective.

If it were me, I'd pare it down to:


I still wouldn't send it yet.

What'll be really important is sitting with your own feelings about this, and what you mentioned here is key:


That seems to be "driving your car" right now. What do you think?

Hi Kells, I appreciate your help once again.

Yes, our last interaction was pretty intense.

Honestly, it was going on for about two weeks after the previous episode of me accidentally sharing the notes regarding BPD and my exes. This is the real reason for the breakup I believe.

I understand she would be upset about this, even tho I did nothing against her. I was just trying to make order in my life first since I had so many issues with memory loss, and after that to understand why she could have such strange reactions I couldn't explain (when I found this forum).

I can't be still certain if she has or does not have BPD, but the only reason it popped into my mind is that she mentioned it once a couple of years earlier when I was asking her about her mood switches. I never heard about BPD before, so if I started digging into it, it was just because she mentioned it to me and I really wanted to understand her.

And after reading all this stuff, I didn't run away, but instead, I decided to stay with her, because I do love her with all my heart.

My only desire was to finally understand what she could have gone through, and eventually learn some useful skills to better manage the conflict and improve our relationship.

She told me I wanted to manipulate her, but I had no intention to do so whatsoever.

She was off and trying to discard me for two weeks, I managed to cool things down and agreed to meet for the weekend.

But after two weeks of ongoing 24/7 stress, no sleep, and mental breakdown, I was very far from being the best version of myself. I booked a flight to see her two times, the first one she told me not to go, and I booked again the week after that.

She seemed happy and I was finally happy as well, but a few minor incidents messed up everything again the day before we were supposed to meet. She started blaming me again and trying everything she could to make me fail.

I stayed up till 2:30 am dealing with an argument over WhatsApp and didn't sleep much again that night. So the day we were supposed to meet I was late and she got mad at me and used this reason to split on me and blocked me everywhere while we were talking on WA and I was already on my way to meet her.

So that being said, everyone seems to agree to the fact that I should do nothing.

The thing is that I trust you very much, but this time I'm probably more afraid than before about the situation.

I tried NC for four months, hoping she would reach out again. I respected her boundaries and I took seriously her suggestion to work on myself, as I hoped she would do the same.

What is driving the car is mostly my desperation of losing someone I care about so much, as I put a lot of effort into making our relationship work, and I know she did it too. And I know I love her very much and she loves me too.
So I'm desperate thinking we could have messed up this forever for some stupid misunderstanding.
She wanted to give us a second chance, but it's like we never really had it.

Hi DeeplyLovingHer,

It's remarkable how similar our relationships sound. The fact that you got in trouble for doing something fairly innocent to "try to make order" in your life illustrates how many landmines there are in this kind of relationship and how hard, maybe impossible it is not to step on one.

I also relate very much to the idea of her "trying to make you fail" and you being kept up arguing til 2:30 am, and then getting in trouble for being late the next day. I too was dragged into draining arguments and then punished for the natural consequences of being drained. My ex created scenarios where I couldn't win.

Looking at your relationship from the outside, it seems like no matter what you did she would have found a source of conflict and you'd end up in the same spot. If it hadn't been the notes, it would have been something else. The "minor incidents that messed up everything" before you were to meet, or whatever you fought about on WhatsApp til 2:30 am, it's always something. And if you'd sidestepped those landmines you would have stepped on another one.

This is all to say that I don't think you should beat yourself up over whatever missteps you made because the fights and ultimate breakup seem inevitable.

I too have been reading everything I can about BPD, doing a deep dive on this message board looking for stories, clues, lessons about how to reconnect with my ex and keep things more peaceful when we hopefully get the opportunity. I do think I've learned a lot and could navigate her disorder more aptly in the next round, but I'm also realizing that with people like our exes, it might just be impossible not to step on a landmine. There are too many, everywhere. And especially when they set us up for failure the way they do, what are we to expect, is there really any other outcome?

Through your story of dating somebody remarkably similar to my ex, I'm starting to see how hopeless my own situation might be. That doesn't mean I wont continue waking up every morning hoping to see a text from my ex, for the time being, but maybe your story is starting to help me see the forest for the trees in my own situation. Thank you for continuing to share.

"Doing nothing" is one way to look at it.

Another one is: you are actively choosing to do something, and the thing you're choosing to do is be deeply strategic, play the long game, and be planful and non-impulsive about your communications.

it depends on how you want to see it.


I think anyone in your situation would feel afraid, too. That's hard stuff -- I'm sorry it's hitting you.


Going back to what Skip shared, there's some timeline stuff to think about. You were on a path for 120 days (4 months) and landed at "I really want to reconnect". Maybe you were angry first, then grieved, then were depressed, then at baseline, then activated to do a tangible thing (flowers). Your process all fit in that 120 day timeline.

I wonder if she is on a pretty different process timeline. Maybe her first step is grief, now she's at anger (big walls going up). But on a much longer timeline. You've "processed" and are in a place of wanting to do something tangible again. It may take her much longer to get to a baseline/action place. Her timeline might not be 4 months like yours was. Continuing to catch her in an "angry/walls up" place might not make her process go faster. She might take many more months to get to a more baseline place about you. Again, like Skip said, hard to say -- just me trying to think of ways to understand the dynamic.

I think she's done with the old relationship with you. She may at some point be ready for a new/different relationship with you -- it may be that she does not want to go back to how things were. That could be important to remember.

Were the two "big" relationship-ending issues her finding your notes about BPD, and you being late that one time? (I'm not saying who is right or wrong about those incidents -- just making sure I'm on the same page as you).

If so, would she see those as kind of emblematic of the "old" relationship? Because there's the content of what happened, but then there's feeling/theme of what happened. The content was: "I found your notes, I can't believe you'd hide that from me" and "why can't you ever be on time, I've been waiting for hours" (or something like those statements). But it's the theme of what happened that I think she doesn't want any more.

Core complaints/themes typically aren't about specific incidents, they're more about patterns of relating. Could the theme be: "DeeplyLovingHer doesn't respect me"? Genuinely, put yourself in her shoes: what is/was her core complaint, thematically, about the relationship?


What are the pros and cons of having your fear of loss "drive the car" right now?

This is really difficult stuff. Glad you're here and talking through it.

Likely whatever contact you attempt to initiate will fail, at least for now.  (Especially with the threats to involve the police!)  To you what you want to say or do feels right but you have to remember that you're reasonably normal.  Your logic, reasonings and perceptions are not her emotional perceptions.

Years ago I learned this insight... BPD is a disorder of close relationships and how they are perceived.  You have had a close emotional history.  That emotional baggage of the past relationship may be too much for her to overcome her perceptions and triggers and truly listen to you, especially if she doesn't avail herself of experienced and emotionally neutral therapy.

Unfortunately you've had on again, off again repetitions, or break up cycles.  Even if you do manage to get together again at some point, there's the old adage, "past history is likely to be future history" or something like that.

Hi Caleb91,
thanks for your support. And yes, indeed the similarities are remarkable.
I did everything with the best intentions, or at least with no aim to do anything bad to her or our relationship.
In fact I did everything I could (in these conditions) to work on myself and our relationship.
I thought I needed to make order in my life first since I had HUGE memory loss problems after the traumatic brakeup.
I tried to date other girls, but I wasn't even remembering to text them after we matched on Tinder, so I had to write it down.
Just to make you understand how badly my mind was functioning. Of course she called me a maniac for this, but literally I had no interest on dating these girls, and this would never happen if she wouldn't brake up with me.

Also regarding BPD, since it's a super complex matter, I tried to understand it. And my point was if I can truly understand what's going on with her, I could make it better. I could deal with certain difficult situation in a more positive way etc...

Again she got super upset, saying she don't deserve to be with someone who think his GF has BPD (it literally popped up in my mind because she mention she could have it years before and I was mad at myself for not paying enough attention).

Lastly when this last break up happened, one day she told me: "We both know there is nothing you can do to make things right, cuz every path you might take could be wrong".

When I thought water were calm enough to meet and make peace, I made the biggest mistake to relax before it happened.
And some minor issues became the "excuse" to start another argument, setting me up for failure and eventually drop me like a garbage in the trash bin.

When she did that, she left some room for a different ending, telling me that "she didn't know if she would ever come back with me", and "she never loved someone else like me". I believe these statements, as I believe whatever I did she perceived as something I did against her, made her feel really bad and automatically I was turned into the "bad guy" who created these feelings, even tho it wasn't my intention AT ALL and I was begging for forgiveness and trying to explain myself a million time.

Maybe you are right and there was no way out, but I believe I was close and she also told me that. So if we could manage to spend the weekend together probably we could avoid the breakup. I'm so mad at myself for this, not trying to make the last efforts in order to avoid all this suffering (for myself and for her too). I thought we were fine at that point after we agreed to meet she seemed happy, but we clearly weren't already okay as I thought, otherwise she wouldn't react like that.

Sorry for taking so long to reply, but my mood got much worse since last time I posted, that I had to start taking pills and hire a psychologist to help me fight the severe depression and frustration, and sense of hopeless I'm experiencing these days.

Hi Kells,
and thank you so much once again for the great insights!
Also my apologies for being away from here, but I had a mental breakdown and I couldn't deal with this for a few days.
I was just feeling desperate, empty and hopeless, without energy to go though this pain again.
Now I feel a bit better and as always, as soon as I feel okay I'm trying to make moves, to get better myself or do something positive for her and our relationship.

So, about what you wrote, yes I decided to don't act impulsively and slowly trying to understand what would be my best options and do whatever is better for both of us.

This is what I've done in the beginning as well and during these 120 days.

So I'll try to recap to make you better understand.

1) FIRST ISSUE (prior the breakdown): she started feeling doubts about our relationship and other things in her life. I was trying to calm her down, and help her making the right decisions regarding our relationship, and other stuff totally unrelated like family and work (but that I'm quite sure had some impact in her overall mood and also her decision to terminate our relationship)

2) SECOND ISSUE: we were navigating in these tumultuous waters for about two weeks and I started feeling very stressed as I had to be on alert all the time and I felt there was something off that could be a danger for our relationship.

3) THIRD ISSUE: all of this + my own problems (work, business, health, stress, etc...) drove me to committing the mistake of sharing these notes. Again I did it because I was totally DUMB and ofc as I didn't feel I did something bad I had nothing to hide (I didn't even think she could react like this). Also these notes were made months before (almost 1 year before), when we were NOT TOGETHER since we broke up for the second time. Also, as I explained to Caleb as well, I did this to make order in my life, since I had so many neurological issues, including memory loss that I COULDN'T remember my previous relationship and the girls I was actually matching and talking with during these days. When I realized how bad my memory was, I put this down to remember and trying to clear up my thoughts. The notes about BPD came later but still before we got back together and since everything was going pretty ok, I never opened them once again. -> FROM HER POINT OF VIEW: this was the proof I'm a predator, and a manipulator.

4) FOURTH ISSUE: for two weeks she was super off and wanted to break up with me in all the possible ways. I managed with a huge amount of effort, desperation and stress to resonate with her, and we agreed to meet to spend the weekend together. I was so relieved that I had to relax a bit after all of this. But it was too early, cuz again some minor issues were the source of huge arguments (usually it wasn't like that).

5) THE KAYTAKES: she is clearly disappointed by my goofy, dumb way of living, which I admit, is due to long covid, burnout and huge amount of stress and physical/psychological pain. I did many stupid things that could upset her, I understand. But she doesn't understand that she wants to break up with my problems and not with myself. I'm still the person she felt in love with, I just need a bit of support and understanding from her. She also suffered a lot the distance, which I did too. But for me it was just a temporary issue, while for her it seems to be something unbearable after sometimes. I see everything with the long term picture in my mind, like I'm doing sacrifices now for a better life tomorrow (like buying a place for us and finally move together which is the only thing I want), but she is focusing more on the today struggles instead. Last thing she is calling me out for not taking responsibility, not making efforts to better myself or our relationship, which is absolutely not true. I did my best to do that. Maybe not enough, maybe not what she wanted, maybe idk. But this is all I wanted and I put a huge amount of effort/time into helping and supporting her every time she needed, even tho I was already way overwhelmed by my personal problems, and unfortunately I didn't get the same from her. I'm not blaming her, just making sure my point of view is also clear enough.

I think these are the main reasons why she broke up with me once again.

MY HOPE: is that if we can talk when she is calm and deeply share our emotions, willingness to work on ourselves and our relationship, we can really be happy together. I never loved anyone else like her in my life. I strongly believe in her as a person and I don't want to give up on her, even after what happened was very painful. I don't want to get back to our previous dysfunctional relationship, but instead to a better version of it. More conscious and self aware, where we better understand each other and make steps towards ourselves and support each others to reach our personal and common goals.

This is what we already agreed to do, just a moment before I shared these notes that drove her mad and ended our relationship. :(

I think I forgot the last 120 days analysis.

So it was like:

Phase 1 (immediately after the breakup)
ME = I won't believe it's happening again -> huge stress and frustration
HER =

Phase 2 (first month)
ME = trying to work on myself, resolving my personal life issues that were making my life more difficult and had an indirect impact on our relationship too
SHE = was still watching my stories on Instagram with a secondary account

Phase 3 (month 2)
ME = then trying to recover a bit mentally and physically by spending more time outside with friends and family
SHE = was still watching my stories on Instagram with a secondary account

Phase 4 (month 3)
ME = Got a new big client so I was overwhelmed by my work again, then started feeling very bad because of too much work and heatwave and stopped posting on social media
SHE. = Probably but not sure started thinking about the other guy

Phase 5 (month 4)
ME = I was still hoping she would break the silence but at that point Ive tried to date someone else (out of boredom mostly) until I realized that I didn't care at all and I was tired to wait / scared she wouldn't come back / quite feeling okay enough to find some energy to write that letter and make the move
SHE = Probably but not sure started dating the other guy

So regarding what to do in this situation, firstly I think I committed a terrible mistake.

In the beginning even if she was so mad at me, I still believe I had the chance to fix this if I was insisting a bit more. Instead I've chosen to respect her decision and wait her, even if it's something I would have never accepted in another situation.

I was probably too focused on thinking she would be back whenever after some time, which is clearly a stupid idea.

She also told me something and did something to make me thinking it could happen again:
- she said "I don't know if I will ever come back with you again" and also "I loved you so much, I never loved anyone like you".
- she was checking my social media for about two months (then I stopped posting because I was overwhelmed with my work, sad, depressed, sick, etc...) and when I posted again after more than a month she has disappeared

Then I sent her a letter without addressing too much the issue and focusing on forgiveness and having a beautiful future together. I did it with the best intentions, but she is probably still mad, or she just have this guy in her mind now.

What can I do?

1) DO NOTHING MORE -> JUST MOVE ON AND PRAY AND TRY DON'T HANG YOURSELF MEANWHILE
2) SEND HER A SHORT TEXT -> ASK POLITELY IF WE CAN TALK, SAYING THAT IT'S IMPORTANT BUT SHE CAN DECIDE WHEN (I CAN WAIT AND RESPECT HER TIMING)
3) SEND HER A SHORT TEXT -> SAY THAT YOU'LL BE AROUND NEXT WEEK, AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HER AND TALK
4) SEND HER A RANDOM THING -> A REEL, A SONG, ETC... FROM TIME TO TIME, REMINDING HER I'M STILL ALIVE AND WAITING FOR HER
5) SEND HER ANOTHER LETTER -> THIS TIME ADDRESSING THE REAL ISSUES ABOUT WHY WE BROKE UP (I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THIS IN PERSON AND I STILL BELIEVE IT WOULD BE THE BEST OPTION, IF SHE WILL TALK TO ME)
6) SEND HER ANOTHER LETTER -> SAYING I'M GIVING UP AND MOVING ON AND I WISH HER ALL THE BEST
7) CREATE SOME BEAUTIFUL ART DESCRIBING OUR LOVE STORY TO CREATE EMOTIONS (like a photobook or a storytelling video) AND SEND IT TO HER AS CHRISTMAS GIFT -> I think she might like it and I always wanted to do this, but of course I would prefer to do it when we are actually together and not in this situation.

Please help me to don't make any more stupid things, but to save this beautiful love. :help: :hi:

You can't do anything right now that will help you case.

You sent flowers two weeks ago. After four months, she now knows you would like to reconnect. You said it loud and clear. She heard you. But it's a seed right now and you have to give it time to grow on its own terms.

The next time she has an argument with her boyfriend, or he disappoints her, your interest in her will cross her mind. Give her some time to process that and her current relationship. It's not as if you can contact someone after months of silence and expect them to blow up their life and jump into your arms.

1. Clearly the boyfriend also got the message and he put up a barrier to you (cops), he has probably pushing on her to tell him she is not interested in you, and he is probably watching her very carefully. As caleb91 said above, anything you send is going to fuel negativity toward you. 2. If she does reach out, the last thing she wants you to do is smoother the situation with a list of everything that was broken in the relationship and why you "had to" and were justified, or explanations of why you are sorry, or romantic stories on why you went silent. You will be best served to let this all go. This is a very important thing to understand. If she contacts you it will be because she remembers the good and the bad has faded away. If there were problems, just don't do it anymore. But don't bring all the "ugly" back up... it can only give her pause. 3. Now is not the time for "some beautiful art describing our love story". Romantic partners love this when the relationship is going good but its way too much in the current situation. This will blow up the situation more than the flowers did. It's way out over your skis. 4. Spend time working on relationship skills. Listen and read. There is a lot of material that can help you here.

Just as an exercise, let's assume you had a do-over (assume the flowers were never sent). What would be a better way to reach out - and why?  Do you know why the flowers got the reaction they did? Can you explain why "beautiful art describing our love" is a problem?

Thanks Skip, this applies to my situation perfectly, so I'm right there with you DeeplyLovingHer, rooting for both of us. I love the metaphor of a seed that's been planted, that now needs to grow on its own terms.

It reminds me of this ficus I have, which about three years ago lost all of its leaves. There were literally just a few leaves left and it looked dead. I took it to work where I had a balcony, since I don't have any outdoor space at home, and put it outside to hopefully get some fresh air and come back to life. After a couple of months it still hadn't grown any leaves back. I was about to write it off as dead, when somebody said we should cut into a branch to see if it's green inside, because if there's still green it means the plant is still alive. It was green inside, so I kept watering it every week even though I was seeing no progress. I have a lot of plants both at home and at the office so watering it just became my routine for months while I stopped paying very close attention to this ficus. Work was busy so I had stopped focusing on this plant, and I remember some months later looking at the plant and seeing all of these new leaves and thinking "when did that happen??" I hadn't even noticed buds. Some months after that I was struck again when I looked at the plant and realized that it had completely filled in. I brought the ficus home and I believe it's now more full of leaves than it was before it "died" in 2021. In fact I was just comparing pictures, marveling at it.

I think about this plant a lot as it relates to the situation with my ex. My relationship looks dead, but I believe there's still some green inside. Between social media posts and music choices I've seen from her, and the emotions that still seem intense enough to have me blocked, I don't believe that our relationship is "dead inside"...I believe there's still some green. And so I've tried to put my focus elsewhere while our love "regrows." 

Hi @skip and thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

1. Clearly the boyfriend also got the message and he put up a barrier to you (cops), he has probably pushing on her to tell him she is not interested in you, and he is probably watching her very carefully. As caleb91 said above, anything you send is going to fuel negativity toward you.

Yes it surely is like this as you just said

2. If she does reach out, the last thing she wants you to do is smoother the situation with a list of everything that was broken in the relationship and why you "had to" and were justified, or explanations of why you are sorry, or romantic stories on why you went silent. You will be best served to let this all go. This is a very important thing to understand.

If she contacts you it will be because she remembers the good and the bad has faded away. If there were problems, just don't do it anymore. But don't bring all the "ugly" back up... it can only give her pause.

About this I do understand what you mean, but on the other hand I believe I should be heard as well and we have to work on our relationship issues, otherwise even if we get back together we might fall again the same way. So we have to work on it individually and this is something I'm already doing on my side, but we have to find a common ground to work on this together as a couple. I don't want to jump back on the bad side of what happened but I think we should discuss it somehow.

3. Now is not the time for "some beautiful art describing our love story". Romantic partners love this when the relationship is going good but its way too much in the current situation. This will blow up the situation more than the flowers did. It's way out over your skis.

Ok yes I think you are right, it's too much in this situation.

4. Spend time working on relationship skills. Listen and read. There is a lot of material that can help you here.

Yes I'm doing this. I hope it's gonna work.

Just as an exercise, let's assume you had a do-over (assume the flowers were never sent). What would be a better way to reach out - and why?  Do you know why the flowers got the reaction they did? Can you explain why "beautiful art describing our love" is a problem?

The flowers were too much. Honestly I had two options and I probably chose the worst. One was the flowers + letter as I did and the other one was a simple email asking if she is still mad and we could reconnect.

I went for the flowers because this is what I felt. I feel good things, I wanted to do good things for her. Like sending flowers and a letter where I sincerely apologize and tease about an happy future together, like we both wanted. Also the letter was done with a bit of sarcasm and was supposed to make her smile. But I clearly failed.

I should have probably go much easier, taking little steps to reconnect.

Am I right?

So now I'm not doing anything but it still puzzling my mind that this time if I don't do anything anymore she could maybe never come back for many reasons.

I think she was pissed by what she saw and she felt betrayed (even tho I have NEVER done that).

She did everything she could to cancel me from her mind (blocked me everywhere, canceled all our pictures, avoid talking with me, trying to switch her mind to something new, getting in a new relationship, painting me black, etc...)

I think she is looking for an easy way to replace me and she found it in this guy because it's gonna be much easier.

They know each others for long time, he is the classic passive guy that she can easily manage and he'll do whatever she wants, they live close so distance it's not a problem anymore, they are about the same age, so this is not a problem anymore as well, they have common friends, so they are probably rooting for him and none for me).

On the other hand it will be much more complicated to break up with this guy for the very same reasons, I guess.

So I'm kinda hopeless about that right now.
If I can't re-establish some kind of communication with her, she will never come back this time.

That's why I was thinking about a more softer approach like sending a reel or short message asking how she is doing and if we can talk sometimes and nothing else, but as you said it's a very dangerous hand to play with and could have the opposite effect.

Last time we broke up, in the beginning we manage to talk again, then she started accusing me again and we had an argument and she blocked me everywhere. Then I was begging to talk and make peace, sending some songs and being ignored. Then after 2 months she reappeared like nothing ever happened. But again this time seems much worse honestly.

I just had an epiphany.

Because I kept these notes about BPD and how to manage the conflict, etc...
And she is denial, I think now she is proving to me and herself that she has not BPD by not coming back again to me, reinforcing all her belief of how bad I'm and how she was right to split me black.

A person with BPD (pwBPD) - or if not diagnosed then someone with observed traits matching BPD perceptions and patterns - can display both behavior types.  Not just the repeating cycles of break-up and make-up, but eventually it can end with you permanently split black.

This might be a progression of her behavior... previously it was cycles of disfavor then favor, repeated... and now it has progressed to what may be a final stage where you can't expect her to come back to you.

I'm not the only one - there are many of us here - who have, as the saying goes, "been there, experienced that".

Thanks for your perspective, ForeverDad. This really caught my attention because I'm two years into a breakup, into being blocked and excommunicated from my ex's life. I never believed I would be here because each time we broke up she eventually softened, unblocked me if I had been blocked, and we reconciled. But after this last breakup, a week turned into a month into six months and here I am at 2 years, wondering if I'll ever get another shot with my ex. I've spent so much time on this message board learning from this community about BPD and I believe that I have so many more tools to be able to handle the challenges of a relationship with her. The thought of not getting one more opportunity to have a peaceful relationship is tragic, because I believe we could do it, and I still love her so much.

In your experience, is somebody in my position most likely split black forever?

I think some factors in my favor are that I was my ex's first ever intimate partner in her late 20s, and she has an incredibly hard time getting close to new people. Though she spun quite the villain stories to her friends after our breakup, she also did post some nostalgic things over the months, and as recently as a few months ago some song choices indicated to me that she wasn't over the breakup.

So I have hope. But 2 years is a loooong time. What's your prognosis?

Caleb91 we understand your frustration and pain, and we are all rooting for you.
But please stay on topic, this is a post regarding my personal situation and I'm already struggling myself to find answers. Thanks!

ForeverDad yes I've been probably influenced too much about the BPD stuff that I blindly believed that this would happen again without any question. And of course, this is wrong.

This time I'm very worried that she would never come back. But I remember as well that last time I had exactly the same feelings. When breaking up this time she added "I don't know if I will ever come back with you"... leaving room for a second thought. But then everything turned much colder and I haven't heard from her since back then :(

I'm talking with the therapist but he seems not the right person to help me with this. He is not even considering that she has BPD or anyway her over-emotional attitude towards me, saying I should just accept the reality and move on.

Well I do accept the reality that she is not my girlfriend anymore, but this doesn't change the fact that she could be my gf again in the future and we can be happy, or at least we can have a decent friendly relationship.

I think that when you care about something and you believe that you can still do something to improve it, you should go for it! This mindset has helped me tremendously during my entrepreneurial journey. Otherwise, I would have failed many times and probably just become a loser homeless or a 9to5 office slave (which is something I never wanted).

But instead, I have never given up!
And this is something she liked. My determination, my confidence, my resilience.
I think that this is something you should be proud of.

Now with all due respect for her feelings and the wall that she put between us, I would make a final little move and then disappear again and live my life the best I can do, while still hoping that she will make her own move to reconnect with me sooner or later.

During these months I focused on myself, on solving my problems, improving my life and my health. Now I'm far from being the best version of myself, but I do feel much better than back then, and I can better handle my problems and our relationship as well.

Please guys help me to answer a few questions:

1) In your opinion, it's a stupid idea to do anything at all, or should I put my effort into this as I explained? She left me saying that I didn't prove to her that I cared enough and she was suffering for this reason because she love me very much. At the same time she was always upset because when I was saying I'm sorry, I was pointing out that most of my fails were caused by my health or work related issues, so in her opinion I was just finding excuses. Another reason is that I was abroad and she probably felt abandoned or anyway I was out of her sight for too long to keep the love alive and it faded away. So I believe that it makes sense to show her that I care, otherwise in her mind I will be just the careless person that she left no?

2) Would you:
- A) send her an email which is the last way we used to communicate but I feel very impersonal and cold
- B) text her on her other Instagram profile that she used to check my account while she blocked me, risking she would block me there as well? (I think this might work better to reconnect on an emotional and personal level, but I never pursued this way cuz I'm afraid that if she reacts in a bad way, she will close this door too and never check on me removing the chance that she will change her mind by herself by seeing something she likes on my social media).
- C) Wait for Christmas and send her a gift + a letter (always did it even when we broke up in the past and it was appreciated, but I'm afraid to wait that long for many reasons (there are important stuff coming up in her life and for us in November and December, and I'm afraid that if I don't do anything, meanwhile the other guy will be consolidating his position while I can't and I will be discarded even more)
- D) Wait till half November when I'll be there and I can say that I'm already around and ask her if we can meet for a casual coffee date and talk

3) I think I might play a mix of these:
- First text will be short and concise saying that I wish she is doing well, asking how it's going and saying that I would just talk whenever she is ready for it
- If the first attempt doesn't work I might try a second short text that could be mid-November when I'll be around (just letting her know that I'll be close cuz I have a meeting with this new client (I think she might like to hear that).
- If 1 and 2 still don't get an answer, last chance will be Xmas and I'll probably never contact ever her again if I receive a bad feedback or no answer at all and I'll move on for good

Is it too much? Or is it a fair play for both of us?

4) The first message would be short and concise and will just focus on these things:
- showing her that I care about her, interest and curiosity towards her personal life and accomplishments
- highlighting that I respect her decision (I didn't contact her at all for 5 months and I don't want to be pushy)
- acknowledging my mistakes and making amend (I'm not sure about this because I did already apologized many times but it was never enough because she said I don't know how to apologize so I would try to exclude the "if", "but", etc...)
- saying that I understand and it's reasonable that she felt like that and decided to break up with me (I do think she has her good reasons to be upset, what I disagree on is just her reaction to it, instead of talking and solving the problem together).
- so playing the friendly card and just leaving the door open for her to make a move towards our reconnection, but without putting any pressure (whenever she feels ready for it, I'll just wait)

5) Last couple of things for which I do have some doubts:
- Would you tell her how much I'm suffering for this situation or it would be better to keep it for myself?
- Would you test the ground first, by sending a few casual reels or songs and see how she reacts to it? (We were used to do it very much and I miss a lot this sharing funny and interesting stuff with her)?
- How seriously should I be afraid of the new bf threats if I just contacted her once in over 5 months? I mean I don't feel like a criminal for just sending a bouquet of flowers and trying to apologize with her. And honestly I'm not 100% sure that they are really together, but ofc it could be.
- Would you just play on reverse psychology and just say that I'm leaving for good instead?

Lastly I would thanks once again anyone that will try to help me with this situation.
I just want to make the right decision for both of us.
You have been very helpful and kind with me.

Bless y'all!

Just to be super straightforward about my end goal and intentions.
I want to just be nice and respectful. I don't want to play stupid games, don't want to be seen as pushy or insistent.
My first goal is to restart communicating with her hoping to get back together with time and trust.
The other goal is to be seen in a better way, like the person I truly am, the guy she felt in love with and wanted a future together, until she will eventually realize one day that she might have done a mistake and come back to me by herself.

That's  it, I hope I can find the right way.
Thank you!

Hi,

I've been on and off with a man for 5 years, and he threatens to call the cops sometimes and there is no logical reason. I generally remain calm, and he has split on me so often in the past 5 years, I have to understand this is unpredictable.  He will not be capable to get close to someone else unless he receives DBT.  I am certain.  So I would allow the focus to remain that this would be short-term for her, and she will split on him too.  When she does, she may reach out to you.

I sometimes reach out calmly after a week or two to see the responses. Ultimately, it is very sad and I am wholly invested in the larger scale of society that these types of people can somehow be helped when they so often refuse or are in denial.

I am wondering what you think your therapist should advise differently if he considered your ex GF has BPD?

Well simply take into consideration the particular behavior I have to deal with and the impact it had on me

Hi Amina, thanks for your support.
Yes the "I'll call the cops stuff" is really crazy and extreme!
Last fight she wished me to suffer like she said she suffered because of me.
At first I was kinda scared as she never told me something like that.
But now I'm okay, I understand what she was going through even tho is completely out of reality that I wanted to hurt her for any reasons I understand how she might have felt.
I'm not sure if this was the scope of all of this, but the level of pain and excruciating suffering she put me into, probably made me even more acknowledged about her emotional distress, and closer to her soul and feelings in general.
I hope you will find the way.
I'm sometimes quite positive thinking that I can make it work and help her overcoming her struggles, and together we can be happy again and even more now that I can better understand her.

But lately I started feeling more hopeless and discouraged as well. It's kinda of mixed vibes.

Sometimes I'm really wondering if I become crazy myself by thinking I would spend the rest of my life like this when you never know if one day this will happen again for any stupid reason, after you put into your relationship all the energy you had.

I just hope love will prevail

That makes sense. The therapist is going to focus on you- because you are the client. He wouldn't be able to make an assessment of her as he hasn't seen or met her.

So perhaps he can't assume she has BPD but I think/hope he'd be able to help you with your side of things.

As to what to do next to attempt to reach out- I don't think there's a "BPD approach"- they are still individuals. I think you have sent messages/gifts already and she hasn't responded. Of the ideas you mentioned- if you are already in town, you could ask her to meet you for coffee just to talk- if she doesn't want to do that, then you have tried.

If you communicate with her, I wouldn't tell her how miserable you are or that you disagree with how she's going about this- this is putting your feelings out there for her and pwBPD have difficulty with their own feelings, and so it's not likely to get you the response you would wish for.

The suggestion to ask to meet in person is only my opinion. For you, it may be too difficult to wait. Personally, I think too many attempts may be too much, but on your part- it's your situation to manage.

See? It was not so complicated to give me a good advice, as you did and many others did previously.
Even tho you were discouraging me to reach out or something, your advice were valuable and on point.

My therapist was just trying to dismantle the BPD thing entirely, even tho my ex mentioned the issue, saying that another therapist told her she might have it. And that's the only reason why I started digging into this matter and everything magically made finally sense. So I don't think he is doing a great job for his client, by invalidating entirely my hypothesis, which is based on two facts and many elements that concour in the BPD behavior and my ex behavior. Even tho you won't accept that we can assume she has BPD, which is fine, he should just listen and take into consideration her behavior which is factual, and not dismissing what I'm saying.

Anyway thanks again, I'll follow your advice actually I'm just gonna wait till next month and cross my fingers!
If she doesn't reply or react well, I might just send her stuff back for Christmas with a gift I wanted to give her and a letter and I will never text her anymore if she don't wan't to communicate with me.

What do you think?

What I think may not be what she thinks as I don't have BPD.

Personally, I think a Christmas gift would feel intrusive and unwanted.  I can't speak for your ex but I think if she won't communicate with you in November, I think a gift and letter would be excessive.

On your part, I don't know how many times you feel you need to try before you decide it's enough. If you feel you need to do it this way- the gift, the letter- that may be what you have to do for you.

None of us here can speak for how your ex will feel. PwBPD can still make their own decisions. Understandable that this is hurtful but she is going to choose what she wants to do.

You may feel a gift of course will be appreciated.  When BPD dysfunction is involved, how she responds is unpredictable.  We can't predict her expectations since we don't know what they would be even if she were in a receptive mood.

I recall one of my last anniversaries, if not the last, before my marriage imploded.  The store's red roses were old with the petals loose, so I bought some beautiful multicolored carnations.  She was so upset that they weren't roses she cut the tops off and tossed it all in the kitchen trash.  Yet another excuse to criticize me.

This was an appropriate gift for the relationship- flowers for an anniversary. The response wasn't appropriate.

If someone asks to not be contacted, doesn't respond to attempts to contact, and also declines a request to meet in November, then sending a Christmas gift is an intrusion. It isn't appreciated because the person has made it clear that they don't want to be contacted. The expected reaction to an intrusion and violation of their boundaries is to not appreciate it.

Just because someone has BPD, it doesn't take away their free will to make choices and decisions, even if we disagree with those decisions. If she's stated several times to not contact her and also doesn't respond to attempts to contact her- it's quite possible she means what she says.

I think it's clear you are open to reconciliation if she wants it- but if she continues to decline contact attempts- a gift may not be appreciated. In this case, to send a Christmas gift is not appropriate for the context of the relationship and it won't be appreciated.

See what happens in November if you ask her to meet.

Dear friends,
I was silent for a while as I tried to live my life without thinking too much about her.

A few days ago I tried to reach out through her secondary Instagram account by sending her 2 reels about things she might like.

The plan was to start with a casual thing and then ask her out when I was passing by.

But he's er answer came back today and was quite harsh. She wrote me this and then she blocked me:

"Can you please please please leave me alone? Months and months and months have passed, life has moved on and so should you. I've been with (the new guy) for a few months, I've never been so in love with a person and at the same time I've never felt so loved; for no reason in the world would I go back or give up what I have now. I'm not the right person for you and you're not the right person for me, try to find your happiness with someone else, and above all stop trying to get in touch with me in any way: if I block you everywhere, it seems clear to me the message is that I don't want to hear or know anything about you."


As usual her reality is quite distorted.

Since we broke up during the past months my only attempt to contact her was when I sent her that letter and never did anything else.

She also left me while telling me how much she loved me like no one else.l ever in her life.

And a few weeks before broking up with me another ex bf texted her and she replied that she was happy with me and she didn't want to talk to him anymore.

So it's the same pattern, except the fact that she has never been for years with anyone else except me.

Please I need your help.

I just want to answer some how for the last time (via email? Letter?) and never contact her again anymore.

The problem is that at this point I'm super confused and I don't know what to do/say as nothing seems to work.

How would you do this?

I also still have at my place her stuff and I don't want to throw anything but I don't want to keep it with me either.

It's so devastating I just want to talk with her

I think this says it all.

BPD or not, she is is capable of making choices. She knows how to make contact with you if she wants to. She hasn't done that. She's asked you to leave her alone.

IMHO, if you contact her, you are crossing her boundaries. Please respect her boundaries.

I think if she wanted the items she left, she'd have made some arrangements to get them. If it's something valuable or something you think she needs to keep- send them to her family or to her- but not with a note, just the items in the box. Or to a mutual friend to give back to her. If not, then donate them.

I understand that this is very hurtful to you, but looking to her as the solution to your hurt feelings is not likely to help you. PwBPD have difficulty with their own feelings.

I hope for your own sake that you can focus on your own self care and healing. Hurting like you are is not going to have any affect on her. I hope you can believe that you are worth turning your focus off her and on to you.

There's no predicting what she's going to do but gaining your emotional stregnth back is your best way to be a part of any relationship- with her or anyone else- some day.

I'm trying to do that but it so damn hard. I invested so much on this relationship. Trying to understand her erratic behavior. Forgave her a million times. Cheered her when we made peace after all these arguments. Celebrated her achievements. Trusted her like no one else. Made plans for the future together. Dreaming about things together. And the list goes on and on and on...

I tried many times to go out with other girls but every single time depression hit me hard again. I can't date anymore. It's just so depressing and nonsense.

I gave her all the space she asked for, hoping she would have come back. But she didn't. Just made two attempts to reconnect nothing more. I don't want to chase her anymore.

Just tell her something before I cut completely contacts. I want to leave a different memory in her mind before disappearing. That's it

Understood but a concern is that if you can’t at her after she has asked you not to - it may not leave the kind of memory you hope. She might be angry because you did what she asked you not to.

It may be that you need some help for the depression- even short term. There’s nothing wrong with seeking help if you feel really down.

If it makes you feel better to contact her - that’s your choice. One idea is to send her things back to her. But I wouldn’t say too much about your feelings. Something like wishing you the best - and your name.

I hope that you can turn your focus to your emotional healing.

Yes I might do that but there so many things I would tell her that I will still feel empty. What if I publish my thoughts, like poems, letters I would send her, etc... on a website I own and we were working on it together? She might check it or not one day, I'll never know. Cuz she abandoned the project, but still keep the Instagram account with the same name, and I still manage the related website. It's cool or a stupid idea?

Your ex seems to be clear about what she wants. She's asked you to leave her alone.

On your part, anything you do is your wishes, not hers.

In general, I would caution anyone to not post things on a website as you described when in emotional discomfort. You may not feel this way in the future but the website remains.

I hope for your sake that you can turn the focus on to your own emotional healing. It's ok to reach out for help with a therapist during this time- it can be a big support. I think it would be helpful to you.

Okay, I've read everything a few times. I've got to jump in from my perspective, irrespective of whether anyone is a pwBPD. Please don't take this as me knocking you as a person or a partner, but my response is STOP. If I had an ex who said he was going to see me "no matter what" I would consider calling the police. I would be terrified. If I gave in and met up with him, I would feel like a hostage.

I know how deep and addictive a relationship with a pwBPD can be. I truly understand some of what you're going through. But if she calls the cops at this point, they may arrest you.

Have you considered the situation?
I travelled 2500 km just to meet with her and she blocked me when I was taking my car to drive to her place and pick her up.
We agreed to meet and we were okay meeting since she started and escalated this argument out of nowhere just hours before we had to meet. Do you think it's unreasonable to drive to your girlfriend and try to reason with her? I took her for dinner, I paid for it. I tried to talk. That's it.

That happened when we were still together. After that I never showed up or insisted. I just sent her a letter with the flowers after 3 months or so. And never texted, called, or contacted her in any other ways since then. Do you think my behavior is unreasonable? After all I went through? Days before she broke up with me out of a rage outburst she asked me to move together. We were looking for a place. She asked me to marry her. She told me she never loved anybody else like me, etc...
After we broke up. I contacted her just once and not in a direct way.  Then I sent her 2 reels on instagram two days ago. That's it.

Understood, but even in context of what happened, which is hurtful to you and you have been invested in this relationship, and even if you have acted reasobably or not- or if she's been unreasonable- it actually is about the two of you each wanting something different.

She has asked you to please leave her alone and not contact her.

You want to contact her - one more time (what she's asked for is not at all).

This is a conflict of who wants what. Do you go along with her request or decide to attempt to communcate in some way with her?

Really it's up to you now to decide what you are going to do. People can only offer their advice here- but everyone can decide if the advice fits them or not. Nobody here can possibly know all that goes into a relationship and so it's really your choice.

Let me be frank here.  If she has clearly stated for you not to contact her again, then listen and obey.  Do you want to get surprised one day with her possibly filing an Harassment petition?  Legally speaking, Harassment complaints are a very serious matter.

People with disorders such as Borderline, are not just quick to change perceptions, they can easily overreact too.  View further communication with her like trying to hold a hot potato in your hands.  How badly do you want to get burned?

You are seeking Closure, answers to your questions or your own concerns. Let Go.  Closure will have to be something you Gift Yourself.


Evidently you're not recovered enough to start a new relationship.  These attempts were indications of "rebound" relationships which typically fail.  Have you sought a local counselor who can assist you in examining yourself, resolve whatever is troubling you and help you to Move On?

You are absolutely right and I did my best to respect her will for months. I would be super happy if she could do the same with my feelings at least once. That's it

Hi Foreverdad. Yes I do understand that. But I'm not sure if my behavior can be considered harassment. I mean I sent her 1 letter + 2 reels on Instagram in over 6 months and nothing else. It seems pretty much far from harrassing someone to me. Anyway I do understand that it can perceived like this by someone else. Believe me the last thing I want to do is to harass her. That's why I'm seeking help here about what to do. I would just talk to her once and then I'm okay letting go. Why is it so hard to talk with someone you were so close with?

I think since she texted me something and she blocked me after that, I can send her a last email to reply what she wrote me on Instagram and then just wait and hope she will change her mind one day.

I tried talking with a therapist but it didn't help. I'm really suffering and I feel suicidal again now. I would probably overcome this much easier if I could just talk to her once. I mean if she is happy like this I'm okay with that, I'll try to move on. I would just be treated like a human, you know? Anyway I'm doing my best not to think about that but it's really hard. These thoughts pops up especially at night when Im sleepless in my bed. They started the first time she broke up with me two years ago. Went away immediately when we got back together. And then I had the same pattern the other two times she left me. No sleep. No interest in doing anything. Just thinking about how it ended and what could I've done differently to not lose her. I'm really having hard time again now. Hope it will pass soon.

One of the hardest things for any of us to understand...


There is nothing logical or fair about this. No kindness. No justification required. No obligation to do more. This is a cold hard truth of life.

When someone who is important to us turns and walks away it shatters our world. It's distorts our perceptions. Our memory of them becomes skewed. It changes our self worth and confidence. It alters our biology and drives us toward or into depression.

We can only deal with this incredible overload on our psyche by purging it through grief. And from there, grief recovery. It takes months - longer depending on the extent of the wound to our soul.

When someone leaves us through death, its final. We experience deep loss. But we don't also feel at fault. When someone leaves us by choice, we experiences that deep loss but its feels like it is all about us. And we struggle to know when it is actually final. It's very hard.

It's time to let go, friend. You're fighting with all your might to control / avoid the pain of this loss - but you can't beat this. You're defeated.

The minute you just sit down and accept the loss, realize that all that could be said has been, and all options exhausted, the anxiety you've battled will be replaced by a dead quiet, and your muscles will relax. You will feel completely empty.

That will be the start of your healing.

Work with us here on that. We're all here for you.

Here is the song from where the lyric came...


Date: 2014(https://bpdfamily.com/book-covers/spacer.gif)Minutes: 3:49
Diana Krall - Why should iIcare with lyrics

Hey Skip, thank you so much for your message!
It really helps a lot. You are right but the point is that I have so many things to tell her that I never done.
I was supposed to do so when we were gonna meet but then we ended up in this spiral to the hell and she left me while we were talking and I never seen her again.

That's the point of my desperation
Maybe it won't change anything
But I feel I have to tell her all these things I have in my heart
Cuz it is just all she ever wanted

How?

What resonates with you from my note?

I felt understood. I felt empathy. I felt you really wanted to help me. I agree with everything you said, except that phrase "all the things has being said" because I didn't share with her all these things that I have in my heart.

When I sent her the letter I was mostly apologizing and asking for forgiveness.

I didn't tell her the important things I feel could make the difference because I wanted to tell her whenever we were gonna meet.

Ofc I was too naive to think about that and I didn't expect she would never reply to me

There is an 80's song by the Cure, Pictures of You. I'm sure you know it. It's an epic rendering of lost love and limitless regret.

I have always been taken by these  words of futility in the song.


Why am I hitting you with song lyrics today? Because I am trying to show you the universality of what you are thinking/feeling. I am trying to show you the universality of its futility. As men, sometimes we just don't get it.

I remember carrying the very same thoughts you are having. That I had something important to say that might change things. I had regrets that I hadn't said the words before. I wrote them out, just the same. To look at them every time I had the urge to send them. Every time I looked, it was clearer to me that they were not going to change anything. Thnkfully, I never sent them.

Here is hard truth - timing is everything. When a relationship is on the precipice and everyone has mixed emotions and feelings of uncertainly, words can make a huge difference. However, once things have gone over the precipice and the partner has grieved the relationship and started building a new life... those same words have no play. And in fact, unless the recipient is open to your words, the words can have the opposite affect of being destructive.

Before you sent the flowers we said don't do it. At most, just put a feeler out to see if she is receptive. If she is not open, you will surely aggravate. That happened.

Sending the IG reals after not getting a response to the flowers, etc. went on to infuriate her. To her credit, you got an very measured and respectful response. But the message is unambiguous.

Clearly she knows you are looking at her social media and she feels like she is being stalked.

She is begging you to let her go (please please please).

"Can you please please please leave me alone? Months and months and months have passed, life has moved on and so should you. I've been with (the new guy) for a few months, I've never been so in love with a person and at the same time I've never felt so loved; for no reason in the world would I go back or give up what I have now. I'm not the right person for you and you're not the right person for me, try to find your happiness with someone else, and above all stop trying to get in touch with me in any way: if I block you everywhere, it seems clear to me the message is that I don't want to hear or know anything about you."

How does a man respond to this?

If it was me, I might send a very brief note to a friend of hers. Let her fried know that it is over. That _______ can live her life and post on social media without you watching her. This is the best gift you can give her now and one that will earn back some respect in her eyes and some dignity in yours.


What do you think?

I will explain to you my experience.  I was hit with an Harassment petition.  My lawyer was serious, he warned that I, by then the father of our preschooler, could be handed a 5 year stay-away order, even if not deserved.  As well, when it expired she could file for a renewal.  He explained that no judge wants to wake up one morning and hear one of his cases in the news, so judges might err on the side of caution.

What did I do?  We had married and were religious volunteers together for the first 8 years of our marriage.  She gradually became unhappy, I did not realize some personality disorder was developing.  We left and within a few years had a child.  As I look back I conclude she no longer saw me as a husband, but a father.  Sadly, her stepfather was a pretty bad guy and she somehow connected the dots between him and me.  So once we separated she was clear she wanted nothing to do with me.  I ended up filing for divorce.  About that time came the most important annual celebration of our congregation.  Of course I attended the services.  She happened to be seated on the left, I sat on the right.  I did nothing but be present.  When she noticed me she rushed out and departed.

A few days later the court mailed her Harassment papers to me.  At the hearing my lawyer and her lawyer worked out a deal where she would get her order for several months and then it would end, did not impact my parenting, and was recorded as a type of settlement that could not be renewed.

That is why I wrote that post above.  It doesn't often go to that extreme, but it can and unwanted contact carries that potential overreaction risk.

Hi everyone and thank you for your support and patience with me. I made a lot of mistakes. Unfortunately due to my health condition my mind was not clear and this is the main reason why she wanted to end the relationship. I tried to explain myself many times but she was putting all the blame on me. It was very sad and painful to see your love suffering from having a malfunctioning boyfriend and at the same time struggling with my health and not being understood and appreciated for my efforts to keep it up as much as I could in this situation.

I totally agree with you guys. I want to move on and give her space. I just would tell her I'm doing that. Honestly last time I contacted a friend of her (during our previous break up, not this one) she was super upset (I just wrote that friend which I met personally: "Hi how are you?" Waiting for her reply just to explain the situation, but instead I've got a mail from my ex saying she would go to the police if I ever contact a friend of her again. I was shocked. After a few weeks she unblocked me and sent me on Instagram a random reel and we got back together. This was last year. So I've tried the same approach this very last time but it didn't work.

So I'm already on my way to try to move on. I just want to let her know I respect her, I love her and I'm moving on. That's it.

What's the best way to do this in your opinion considering the situation?

Maybe I can try with another friend or idk an email, a video message, a letter? I just want to tell her I'm respecting her and I'll not chase her.

Don't tell her you love her. You have conveyed that. It is inappropriate at this point. Maybe... snail mail, blank white card (no photo, picture, drawing).

I will respect your request for privacy in every way.

And then stay off her social media.

About the input here, it has been insightful and mostly cautioning.  Yes, you want to express yourself one more time.  But you've already tried multiples times already.  One more time is unlikely to succeed and you still won't have satisfactory Closure from your ex.  Please, gift yourself closure and move forward into your future.

Most of us here have had counseling during our times of stress and distress.  While the peer support here is excellent, it is still remote and limited, so experienced local resources are invaluable.  What does your counselor advise?

Hi everyone,
I've been trying to follow your advice for a while but ended up buying her a gift for her birthday/Christmas, and I wrote her a letter but I didn't sent it.
Instead I sent her an email the day of her birthday (which is also the day we met the first time), saying that I had this gift for her and I wish we could meet, otherwise I would have ship it to her if she wouldn't want to meet. She didn't reply and I sent another very short email after 3 weeks just asking if we could talk.
I ended up with her new boyfriend threatening me again via phone. I feel so stupid that I didn't follow your advice.

But at least now one thing is very clear to me: most of their reality is not real. In fact is pretty much twisted.

This guy keep saying that we were not together last year while he was trying to slip in her bed.
He is keep saying that I'm harassing her everywhere and every now, while I wrote her just 4 times in 9 months after we broke up.
He also admitted that he told her to break up with me multiple times, so he was one of the (if not the main) reasons why she broke up with me.
Last year while we were still together she told me multiple times this guy was insisting to see her and she was pissed and anxious about that, and she even wanted to stop their friendship at one point. He even invited her at home the valentine's day and she told me that. I was so blind and overwhelmed by my health issues to not see this coming :((
So I think he is the enabler of her twisted perception of myself, if not even the one who painted me black in her mind himself.
What should I do now in your opinion?
Should I tell him that what is saying is basically defamation and he is just doing something bad to her?
If I do it I'm afraid he could get mad and she could get even more furious if he break up with her for this reason (I don't want that).
On the other hand I feel that if I'm not replying they will keep living in this twisted reality where I'm the bad person and believing that I was harassing her while we were actually engaged and planning to move in together in a few weeks.

I am assuming both he and she are adults, right?  And you contacted her, not him?  Yet he was the one to contact you, so clearly she informed him, or allows him to monitor her?  The reality is that adults can choose how they want to live their lives.  Yes, the choices these others have made may be unwise or even unhealthy, but it is their right as adults to do as they choose.

Frankly, anything more you do can just get you into more intense conflict, either with the guy or with legal complaints.  Right now you have the appearance of an "ex".  Rather, to be frank, from their perspective you are the ex.  Not your choice of course, but that's reality.  Your feelings for her need to be put in the past.  Have you heard of the stages of Grieving a Loss (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292033.msg12746704#msg12746704)?  (Perhaps explore this with your therapist?)  There are some identifiable stages but I want to focus on the most important one... Acceptance.  Can you Accept that things have changed, that she is no longer in a relationship with you and that you need to Let Go your feelings and Move On?

Pardon me if I've been a bit too blunt but she left you many months ago.  Better to Accept that than continue in an uphill struggle with little likelihood of a happy outcome.

Hi Foreverdad,
Yes you are absolutely right.
It's really hard for me. So I've been trying to move on, but she is still in my heart and mind.

When we broke up last time, it didn't make sense at all. It was just out of rage.
So I was just hoping that at some point we could have talk calmly again and this could help us at least to have some sort of communication.

Yes I wrote her and he wrote me.
I think he asked my number, it wasn't her, but maybe I'm wrong.
When he reached out last week I finally understood why she didn't came back and why she broke up with me in the first place.

I believe their relationship is founded on the hate towards me.

She was referring as this guy as "one who hates me" (we have never met), because she was probably turning to him every time we had an argument or she was sad about something. So he inevitably started to be the enabler of her black thinking on me, enabling it and pushing it to the roof.

She seemed not to follow this in the beginning as she referred to him with kind of pity most of the time. I think the guy changed when he decided to break up with his ex gf and trying to make us breaking up to get with my ex. This is what happened.

We had an argument and he did all he can to convince her that I'm a bad person and she should leave me, so he could leave his gf and be with mine. 100% this is how things went. My ex told me many things about him, and he admitted he was pushing her to break up with me.

She had legitimate reasons to be upset with me, but everything else is a false narrative fueled by the BPD thinking and this guy sneaky attitude.

What I see here is just a manipulator who did everything he could just to destroy our relationship and fuel her bad thoughts for his own sake.
But you are right, now I just need to focus on my self. If she will ever want to talk with me, she knows where she can find me.

What I was asking here is that: should I tell the guy the truth/facts?
Maybe it will break the circle of picturing me like a devil, when he was the one not being "a good person" while he was trying hard with my ex while he was still with his own girlfriend for months!

Theirs is a dysfunctional relationship, as I think you have to admit yours was too.  And you can't even be sure who is saying what to whom since you're not there when they're communicating.  Likely (1) they're feeding off each other * or (2) he believes her perceptions and is trying to protect her.  Doesn't matter which, you're still the odd man out.

* Karpman Triangle ... she's the Victim, you're the Persecutor, he's the Rescuer.


If it doesn't change that you're still an ex, what would be the benefit, the relationship would still be over ... while you could risk antagonizing the overall situation, making it much worse.

People with BPD traits often view all their past relationships as bad ones.  You're now painted as evil.  For all you know, this guy will too be painted evil, eventually.  And the next ones too.  You can't fix what's broken.  Best to walk away, lick your wounds metaphorically and Move On with your life.

Yes this is exactly the Karpman triangle.
I think she was asking him advice when we were having an argument and this guy took everything she said and made it much worse.
He just wanted to have her so badly, she told me many times about this but she was naive and was saying that he was just a friend.
The fact that she is being manipulated and pushed to not talk with me, isn't manipulation or an illegal behavior?

Not sure what your ideal outcome is in this situation, but just a quick comment -

There’s a lot (*a lot*)of freedom in allowing people to think what they want about you (good or bad).

There’s *a lot* of freedom in not having to fix anyone else or ‘make them see the truth’.

Trying to share your point of view, or prove your perspective will keep YOU trapped.

And there’s only one loser in that situation - and that’s you.

If your ex has bpd, you cannot - CANNOT - set her perception straight. It’ll always be ‘off’ until she heals.

The new guy? Who knows.

Maybe he’s unwell too, or maybe he’s just naive to buy into the situation.

Whatever the truth is, you can only control your own thoughts and behaviours.

That’s where all of your freedom lies, and it’s where all of your self-confidence and power lies too.

Look after yourself, and good luck :)

(And finally - it sounds to me as though you’d really benefit from putting this situation down now. Electric fences can kill - and they can also be very hard to let go of. This sounds like an electric fence. Hard to let go of, but hope, healing and freedom lies in *letting go*. Sounds to me as though you ought to do that! :))

The new guy has many advantages over me:
- he is about her age
- they knew each other already since long time
- she was complaining about me the whole time, so he knows what bother her
- they live very close and we were living far away and this was probably our major problem
- he is not sick like me (this was the second major problem)
- he knows her family and they also have friends in common
- he gets a more mature girl that now has already experienced a long term relationship
- he is now in charge of being the caregiver and he was able to cut me off the game

Anyway now it seems there is literally nothing I can do.
I'm trying to move on since back then, but I'm having very hard time.
I'm living my life, trying to fix stuff and get better.
But I'm quite isolated. I avoid dating other girls. I just don't feel I want to be with someone else.
I think about her every single day, many times per day.
I'm even talking to her like I'm talking to a ghost in my head.
Like you know when someone you care passed away from a day to another and you can't literally get over it.
I think I've been almost like this only once in my life. When my grandma died many years ago.
She was everything to me and her passing away was an absolute shock, just my ex gf leaving me and cancelling me from her life this way.
Sometimes I loose focus and I'm looking nowhere while someone is talking to me.
I keep remembering the beautiful moments and I keep thinking about what has gone wrong and what I could have done differently.
And I blame myself even if I know it wasn't totally my fault, but due to my chronic illness I failed.
Sometimes I start crying out of nowhere while I'm walking on the street.
I do this over and over and I can't stop.

Anyway thanks guys!
I really appreciate your help.
I'll try harder.

A lot ( *a lot* ) of wisdom in SnailShell's words... for everyone reading.

I'm sorry I'm missing the point here...
What is the benefit to let them think I'm a evil abusive ex boyfriend when it's absolutely not true?

Because you can't control what other people think.  Perhaps with a relatively normal person you can inform and influence the other person.  But with BPD traits of unpredictable actions, feelings and emotions overruling facts and reasons, blaming and blame shifting, there's little you can do when the other refuses to listen.

You know the old story, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.  More specifically, you can't even lead her to the truth much less make her accept it.

You've done what you can.  You tried.  Anything more and you risk antagonizing them even more.  Let Go, lick your wounds, work toward recovery for yourself and Move On.

Accept that you're unlikely to get closure from them.  In my case, my marriage imploded soon after we had a child.  That was some 20 years ago.  Child is grown now, the conflict from back then has subsided but... to this day she insists I was the one causing her problems.  After two decades I still can't reason with her.  Yet we share a child and so I don't walk away from being a parent.

It hurts a lot and it doesn’t feel fair… but finding peace with someone’s misrepresentation of you is an act of self love.

Taking yourself out of drama triangle will eventually stop the drama between the three of you… then it will just be the two of them - and their ability to sustain a relationship without the aid of the additional drama will remain to be seen…

Also agree there’s a lot of juice for you in Snailshells post - you may find the act of letting go is the path to reclaiming your power and confidence. And see where it takes you. It doesn’t all have to be figured out right now.

Got it! Yes I think it's the only thing I can do right now.
Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts with me :)