BPDFamily.com

 :help:

Hello, I'm new. This is my 2nd post. I'm really going through a tough time. But this site helps ground me. I would love feedback.

My live-in bf of 2 years split 7 days ago. This is the first time. We knew he had BPD, though, due to his behavior in the beginning of our relationships, which was on and off due to me catching him in lies and keeping secrets. One of the things he was doing was texting with exes (nothing romantic or sexual), hiding it from me, and then deleting the messages, so I wouldn't find out.

From literally day 1, we laid down some very serious ground rules for the relationship. I have PTSD from relationship trauma from being involved with sociopaths and finding out their secrets and lies (secretly married...to 2 women simultaneously, secretly a pedophile/sex offender, lied about name... just to name a few). So I am EXTREMELY triggered (can't emphasize that enough) by lies and secrets. He's seen that first hand.

So when we started our relationship, we sat down and had a serious talk about the rules and boundaries. For me, I made it VERY clear that there was zero tolerance for lies and secrets. I am an open book. I have nothing to hide. I'm extremely honest. And I want the same in a partner. I also said that I have no tolerance for porn (he has a history of sex addiction, as did some of my exes). I explained all that, and I told him that my view (as with many other women) is that porn is cheating. He agreed and promised to never view it again. I also said there will no longer be any deleting of anything to hide things from me.

He initially went to therapy and did a 10-week DBT intensive treatment program. But never followed up with anything from there.

A week ago, he abruptly split. Hours after we were trying to purchase real estate in Hawaii, and he asked to put his name on my house deed, he suddenly stated he had no hope for our relationship, and he was moving out. No fight or argument in between.

He is now trying to reconcile with me and wanting us to go to couples therapy. Now, in my view, even if you're separated, if you are actively trying to reconcile, the rules still apply. That's how I see it. Otherwise, you could just use the words "break up" as a free pass to do whatever you wanted for a few days and then come back with no repercussions.

I am able to view his browsing history on the devices he has with him. I've never checked up on him until now because his behavior with the splitting is totally new for us and I have absolutely no idea what is going on with him. The other day, I saw he was viewing porn (one rule broken), then, deleting the history in an effort to hide it (another rule broken). I was extremely hurt and disgusted. This is very hard for me. I haven't eaten in a week, and I've lost 10 lbs in 7 days. I can't sleep, even with meds.

I didn't say anything because I was trying to avoid talking to him without a therapist present, as he gets defensive to EVERYTHING - no matter how I word it. But the porn use has continued. Last night, it was gay porn. I literally want to throw up. I couldn't take it anymore. I immediately sent a text saying, "I can't do this anymore." He immediately started texting me, asking if I was ok, asking if there was anything he could do, saying we could work this out, everything will be ok, etc. I said I just want to be alone. I was so hurt and angry that I didn't want to say much. He had no idea that I knew he was watching porn. But, of course, it begs the question - has he been doing this all along? What else is he hiding?

I thought about it all night and I thought I had figured out a good way of putting it to him, and since he was being so cordial, I decided to text him this at 4:30am:
"The porn has to stop. I am deeply hurt, and I feel betrayed, and it's killing me. You've broken my trust. I don't feel I've done anything to deserve all this. I need time to process everything and figure out where to go from here."

My hope, of course, would be that he would actually care about my feelings, care that he's destroying me, care that he's broken the rules, and just be respectful of my feelings. Apologize. Something...

Nope. I later got this response:
"I don't understand why you feel hurt and betrayed and that I've broken your trust. What I do in what I thought was private has absolutely nothing to do with you. I thought I could trust you with leaving my desktop there. I needed a distraction and some kind of stress relief from what I'm going through and I shouldn't have to explain myself. Please don't be upset about this. Nothing personal. Not about you at all. Please let me know what you want to do though from here. I can get my stuff out of your house ASAP if that is what you want.

Zero empathy. Zero accountability. He already KNOWS why it would make me feel betrayed and hurt, we had a long discussion about that in the beginning of our relationship, and he was in agreement. If he, indeed, thought it was ok, then he wouldn't be going through the effort to immediately delete his history to try to hide it from me. So he knows it's wrong. Trying to twist it around into he thought he could trust ME with his PC is ridiculous. And that his primary concern is what he's "going through" when he was the one who did all this ... TO ME! He hasn't apologized at all for any of it. He's acting like I'm the bad guy in this whole situation.

It's my birthday. I know he ordered me flowers and chocolates. I don't expect to hear from him at all.

This is so reminiscent of the insanity we went through at the beginning of our relationship. Me catching him secretly texting an ex, him swearing to never do it, me catching him again and breaking up, then him feeling sorry for HIMSELF for having to deal with the known consequences of his behavior that he knew hurt me. Rather than apologizing ever, he'd send me tons of messages trying to make me feel bad for HIM because he got caught. Nothing at all about me and what I'm feeling over what he did. This man is 66 years old, has 4 failed marriages, and still has no insight into his behavior.

To me, his message sounds basically like, "I can do whatever tf I want, I can break the rules, I can hurt you, and it's your fault for finding out about it."

I just can't believe that, in a span of 1 week, my life went from planning forever in hawaii to trying to figure out how I'm going to survive on my own when I'm financially dependent on him and disabled.

I should also mention that he lost his only long-term relationship because of his sex addiction. And he admitted that to me, and he was devastated over that.

Hello - This is a really tough situation.  

It sounds like you see it very clearly.

Do you have an individual therapist or others you can rely on for emotional support?

A pwBPD is often triggered by transitions - and a joint property purchase is right up there among the largest life changes / commitments for most of us...   I'd guess that the split is due to his emotional flooding associated with the planned purchase - does that sound right?

In any case, it's easy to understand that you'd want to hold him accountable for the split.  Adding on the porn layer of accountability at this moment is "technically" fair - and kudos to you for expressing yourself and standing up for your feelings - however - it's generally super, super hard to get any sort of accountability from a BPD - esp. one who is already in splitting mode...

There are three main issues here:
- is there a chance for a general reconciliation, with mutual trust and confidence?  what does that look like?
- is there a chance to communicate and establish boundaries re: porn?  what does that look like?
- how much of your willingness to revisit and potentially be flexible to him on these points is due to your sense of dependency on him?  Couples therapy can be a mixed bag - too often a mediocre therapist waits to see which partner will capitulate...

As difficult as it may seem:  There are many people in this community who have wrestled with similar situations.  There is no right or wrong choice - as long as you take confidence in what you decide.

My $.02 - I'd consider a compromise:  i.e., agree to go couples therapy if he agrees to follow through on the past DBT program.  In parallel, see an individual therapist.

What are the chances of him agreeing to such a "deal" and actually doing it?

Hang in there.  You've either narrowly avoided a very difficult situation and have an exit in sight - or you've gained direct visibility to what to expect if the relationship proceeds.  Cycles of splitting are, unfortunately, very common in BPD relationships...   you're in good company here.

Thank you so much for your reply, Eyesup.


I have a therapist for my PTSD. I've been in therapy regularly for many years. I've also done a ton of work on myself outside of therapy and place high importance on self-improvement. I only have a couple friends, more like acquaintances. They normally don't have time to talk to me. I'm essentially using this forum as my emotional support in between therapy sessions.


I'm not sure. That might have been part of it. My sense is that it had more to do with us doing a session with my therapist the night before the split. Everything was fine, we were excited about the property, even on the drive to therapy. My therapist offered to see us together to try to help with the communication issues (i.e. him having disproportionate reactions and getting defensive constantly). He was very open to the therapy, it was our 2nd time doing it. Our therapy session was very calm. My therapist said that we were way better than what he normally sees in couples counseling and that he thought we'd be able to work through our issues and that we compliment each other well.  But I think just because I aired my grievances about his defensive behavior caused another defensive reaction (although he didn't show it). But I sensed he was antsy during therapy. The rest of the evening was normal. First thing the next morning, he split. He said he no longer feels there's any hope for us.

What's funny is I found a support group for people in relationships with someone with mental illness. I did this in an effort to learn how to better respond to him. He saw me add "support group" to our shared calendar and sent me a msg saying he's proud of me for getting help and thinks there might be hope for us now. Like, he literally sees me as the problem somehow. Even me just talking about our issues in a therapeutic and calm environment is such a huge problem to him that he's ready to walk away. Not to mention the fact that I've already been in weekly therapy for decades. I just laughed when I got that message. Like somehow me doing a support group is going to fix us. I've dedicated a huge portion of my life to self-improvement, and he's done the bare minimum.


I thought so at first. But it's like every time I try, he sabotages it. Every time I get another insensitive message, or see what he's up to, that chance dwindles. I don't trust him now. I'd be wondering what he's doing behind my back all the time. And I'd be wondering when the next time would be that he'd abruptly run.


I don't know. He's essentially telling me that he can do whatever he wants and doesn't care how it affects me. Seems to me like all rules and boundaries will go right out the window whenever he decides he wants them to.


This is the big question now. This is probably the only thing right now making me even consider giving him another chance. I left a high-paying career and took an early medical retirement because I desperately needed to, and he encouraged it and said he'd take care of me (which he has been for the past year and a half). We sold his house, his boat, we consolidated all our stuff, and he moved in with me. Now, I'm broke. And when he split, within 24 hrs he had removed me as his beneficiary, removed me from his bank account, and started looking for local real estate to buy.


I think the odds are pretty high that he'd be willing to do that. He really wants us to get in long-term couples counseling. I'm fine with that (but it's so hard to find good therapists). My concern with that is that our couples therapy is what caused this to begin with. And it was a very calm and healthy discussion. He just can't handle any type of criticism, at all. Right now, he seems to have convinced himself that I'm at fault. I was hoping the couples therapist would help encourage him to do regular DBT therapy. I think he'd be receptive, but I'm unsure because right now he's blaming me. We actually have another appt scheduled for a week away to see my therapist again. I'm afraid of what is going to happen. But I'm considering texting him your proposal. I'm just afraid to even text him at this point.

I really appreciate your insight and thought-provoking questions.

I know you want to repair and recover - and that may be possible.  But I'd encourage you to sit with your feelings for some time - maybe a day or two - and give him room to show you what he really wants / who he is going to be.

One of the major attributes of BPDs:  hyper sensitivity to criticism, real or perceived.  I suspect that you're correct - the session with your therapist was a trigger, because it felt like criticism to him.

Does your therapist have expertise in BPD?  If he has a BPD diagnosis, was your therapist aware of this before the meeting?  Have you followed up with the therapist?  Sometimes a therapist will be available on an urgent/emergency basis - you might want to check in so that you don't need to wait for the next scheduled appointment.

Another BPD attribute is blame shifting - it sounds like he's actively doing this by congratulating you on the support group - i.e., of course it's you, not him...  it's an often confusing defense mechanism (when you're on the receiving end) of sorts...

Not sure if this is helpful, I'm sure others will weigh in here too...

Hang in there.


 

Yes, actually, my psychologist specializes in trauma. So he deals a lot with PTSD, Complex-PTSD (which is very similar to BPD), and BPD, etc. He's actually the one who helped me figure out that my bf has BPD and even told us about the place where he did the intensive therapy. I talked to my psychologist soon after all this happened, and he was shocked. He couldn't believe how extreme my bf's behavior is and didn't expect it based on the 2 sessions we had together. He's offered to do the next couples session in a week because we can't find an available couples counselor anytime soon. I also asked my psychologist if he knows of a couples' counselor who specializes in BPD, but he did not. To me, it seemed like he did a good job. He was fair to both of us, made sure we both were heard, didn't show any bias. But I have no other experience with couples therapy, so I can't compare to anything else.

Fortunately, I have a brief virtual visit with my psychologist in a few min to update him again.

Well, this morning he went to some "headache therapist" at the VA for his headaches. And she told him he doesn't have BPD. They supposedly went over the criteria, and she said he doesn't meet ANY of the criteria! I'm just flabbergasted. I mean, literally, one of the criteria is suicidal threats/gestures. He just did that the other day. He has a history of doing that... to the extent that numerous people have taken guns away from him on numerous occasions. And this seems to always been during breakup periods. Not to mention the 4 divorces.

Now, I'm getting the sense that he doesn't want to accept that his behavior is causing these problems. He doesn't want to believe he has BPD. He doesn't seem to have a sense of the severity of these issues or how abnormal things like what he did last week are. He seems to minimize it. I don't think he wants to do the DBT therapy now. I really don't know if there's any hope. I'm the only one trying to work on my issues.

How do you know what she told him?

He told me. We talked about it via texting when I asked him how therapy went. She's sabotaging his efforts to get help. But then I find out it's not even his therapist, it's this "headache therapist," whatever that is. Because he went to the VA for headaches. So this must be the same person he talked to right before he came home and broke up with me out of nowhere. Because that's what he went for. I thought it was a regular doctor for headaches. WTH is a headache therapist?!!

BPDs are unreliable narrators.

In this situation, you really have no idea what's been said.

There's what your partner told the doctor, which may have been selective or distorted...

There's what the doctor told your partner, which may or may not have been perceived and/or relayed accurately by your partner.

And, there's the underlying question:  Who exactly is this doctor?  Is there, in fact, a doctor?

In a situation like this, some of us tend to dig and attempt to control everything - "can I talk to the doctor?" or "is there a report I can read?" - you could go down this path, and your partner will likely avoid compliance in any number of ways, for any number of reasons.

Another approach might be:  "well, that's great news!  so, what's next?  did the doctor have any suggestions for the headaches?" 

I have no business guessing or unfairly judging your partner, but I'll bet that there's a lot of grey area between what you're hearing and how your partner is thinking/feeling - and that the current story is a bit of a smokescreen (deliberate, intuitive, who knows) to keep your concerns at bay.

Why not focus on what you can control:  You.

How are you feeling? 

   

Thank you for your response, EyesUp.

You're right, he is terrible at communicating, and I've always suspected he's telling people very skewed versions of what happened. Also, because he is so defensive, he's definitely not going to tell people the truth about what he did because he's afraid he'll be judged.

I feel like I'm just getting a bunch of lip service from him right now. Like he's just trying to tell me what I want to hear. I expressed to him that I don't think he's really doing anything right now to work on his issues (I didn't say it quite like that). How he's not spending any time reading about his behaviors, journaling, talking to people, etc. His response was basically that he thinks couples counseling will fix us. He doesn't see himself at fault for anything (the porn infidelity, the secret keeping, the splitting, the outbursts of anger, manic behavior, etc). He'll just say what he thinks I want to hear.

Honestly, I'm tired of it. I've dealt with this before. Not only with him repeatedly at the beginning of our relationship, but with exes. He's resisting the DBT therapy for some reason (I have no idea why, maybe just doesn't want to have to accept any responsibility for any of his behaviors that have caused literally ALL of this). And that was really the deal I put forth. I go to therapy weekly. There's no reason why he can't. He's got this lengthy history of relationship problems, and at no point in his life has he stopped to do any self-reflection. He's so resistant that it seems hopeless to me.

The other thing I keep thinking is that in the beginning, I kept catching him keeping secrets from me. Deliberately hiding things from me that he knew he shouldn't have. After I made it clear that I can't deal with lies and secrets and that it was a dealbreaker. I'd break up with him. He'd frantically try to win me back. He'd swear to never do it again. He'd come clean on some things. Then I'd catch him again. We went through this 2 or 3 times before we finally had a very lengthy talk about everything and I stressed, as much as possible, how important it was and that I'd leave him if he did it again. He swore up and down he never would. And now he's done it again with the porn, which is a double whammy because it's the porn itself, and then it's the hiding it by deleting evidence. And he doesn't seem to realize how massive of a deal this is. He minimizes these major things he does wrong. So I'm sitting here thinking, how many times am I going to give someone a chance who says he'll never do it again and then does anyway and doesn't really seem to care how it affects me? When am I just going to keep my word and respect myself?

The other thing is the porn he watches is very disgusting. It's not normal guy porn. It's really gross. I won't go into details, but it's extremely concerning.  I know he was a sex addict before he met me. And I know he lost his only long-term marriage due to that. And again, no self reflection. He said it's the worst thing that ever happened to him, but he didn't take the time afterward to go, "ya know, my sex addiction ruined my life...maybe I'll go to SAA meetings?" Nope, as soon as she was gone, he got worse. He goes through relationships like most people go through toilet paper, but never stops to think maybe he's doing something wrong.

Yesterday, I started looking for a dog. I lost my dog, who was my entire world (can't stress that enough) 3 years ago. I've been devastated ever since. I cry every day because I miss him so much. He died very suddenly and very unexpectedly, and it was extremely traumatic.

He asked me why I'm looking for a dog. I told him I needed someone loyal, dependable, and protective who won't abandon me. And that's the truth. What I need the most, I can get from a dog. Without all the drama. So now he's concerned that I've given up hope.

Based on the discord, his concerning attitude/behavior and your understandable sensitivities, this is a very troubled relationship.  This is certainly not the time to add him onto your house deed or even buy a property together.  There may never be a right time to venture into the obligation of joint ownership.  (Quite possibly even something as simple as a dog shouldn't be jointly owned. :( )

It sounds like he's doing boundary pushing, trying to see what he can get away with or how much you'll retreat from your boundaries.  (Over on our Tools and Skills Workshops (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0) board we have topics on boundaries, explaining how boundaries are for us, often how we respond when our boundaries are violated.)

As for his claim that the professional said he didn't have any trait of BPD, well, one of our members years ago wrote that he knew when his ex was lying, it was when she opened her mouth.  That was a bit of an exaggeration perhaps but he made a point... on serious issues, seek independent verification from the source or elsewhere.  Likely the professional could only comment on what was displayed at that moment of time in that visit.

I am going to mention a possible trigger for the split. BPD affects the most intimate and secure relationships the most. Doesn't seem fair but  it explains why someone with BPD can act more "together" with people they are less close to and in the beginning of a relationship. People have reported the increase of the BPD behavior at times where the attachment is more secure- (and the partner is less likely to leave) marriage, moving in together, moving closer after a long distance relationship, the birth of a child- etc.

It was after you resigned from your job and became financially depedent on him that he split. I believe your BF was sincere when he promised to take care of you financially. However, being financially dependent on him makes it harder for you to leave. If you own your own home and put his name on it - you potentially lose your own independence. I think you felt secure with this arrangement when you agreed to it and you trusted him. You didn't have a reason not to.


Now he's split and you have now seen what he did when he didn't make you the beneficiary of his account. Now, with this knowlege- it is in your own best interest to have your own financial security.

Thank you ForeverDad and NotWendy for your responses.

I don't believe his splitting is due to financial support. He's been financially supporting me for a year and a half now (3/4 of our relationship) while my retirement has been processing. A year ago, we sold his house and he moved into mine. We consolidated all our stuff (only keeping the best of everything, since we had 2 or more of everything). We also sold his boat because mine was better. In selling his house, he was able to live off much less money than he did before when he had a house payment. When my retirement is settled, the split in our incomes would be about 60/40 in his favor. However, he has a much larger investment acct (which he didn't need to dip into while living with me) than me since he is 22 yrs older, and retired at a normal age. I retired early due to PTSD. So I can't even touch my investment accts yet, legally.

I firmly believe (and it's really the only thing that makes sense to me as I analyze things again and again in my head), that our couples counseling session was the catalyst. I pointed out (again), how he overreacts to things that are everyday normal conversation to everyone else, but that he takes as insults or criticisms and gets upset. And that these events sometimes get blown into arguments somehow, and I find it ridiculous because they're such stupid things and I don't like all the drama this causes. I also said that he had threatened to leave two weeks earlier, over one of these ridiculous arguments that shouldn't have even been an argument to begin with. And during that argument, he had said mean things to me, which was very unlike him, and he had never done that before. I said that this has made me feel less secure in our relationship and that he doesn't think of me the way he had always seemed to think of me (which, it turns out, is actually true, due to the Splitting). I think those statements triggered him. Both because I had said things which he'd see as criticisms, and because he might have felt like I wanted to leave since I said I no longer feel the relationship is as secure as I thought (and turns out I was right, he left a few hours later). I think he was pre-emptively leaving me before I could leave him.

But also, I think something happened at this "headache therapist" he saw that next morning. I think he went in there and said a bunch of stuff with a victim mentality. Didn't give the whole story. And she gave him the idea that he should just leave, and I'm the bad guy. And he came home and did that immediately.

The more I think about it, the more that looks like what happened.

Also, with the porn situation, I'm wondering if his attitude toward me had something to do with guilt that he was feeling over violating the boundaries of our relationship and hiding it. He also knew that if I found out, I'd leave him, because that was the deal from the start. So he might have been projecting guilt and anger that he had at himself, toward me. That might be why he started being mean to me, even screaming at me a couple of months ago. All this coincides with the porn use. None of this happened before then. Whatever happened seems to encompass all of these behaviors.

But he has no self awareness. He doesn't want to realize he is splitting. He doesn't want to realize he has BPD (something he admitted to in the beginning of our relationship). He doesn't want to do DBT. It seems like now, he is trying to spin this to where I'm the one that needs the help (mind you, I've done a tremendous amount of therapy and self-help work on myself for over 20 years...like obsessively, and am in weekly therapy). So obviously, this isn't fixable if he's unwilling to see the severity of his behavior. Blaming me isn't going to fix anything. And that's where we're at right now. It's very frustrating when something is so obvious that it couldn't be any clearer, yet someone can't see it (especially at his age). It doesn't give me a lot of hope.

I think it's wise to keep the house in your own name- for your own financial safety. Please don't underestimate what could possibly happen. I have seen what can happen. After my father passed away, my - now elderly-BPD mother has drained every account they had, then she took out a home equity loan on the house, didn't tell anyone, and now the house is gone. She's changed her mind about who is beneficiary in her account.

None of this was ever my money or expected to be- it is hers to decide on but what she's done is irrational and destructive and you see how someone is when they are splitting. I'm sharing this as an example of the kind of things a dysfunctional person can possibly do. You saw what he did with the bank account and your name. My BPD mother does this too. Money and property are one way she "punishes" people if she's angry. Doing what she did with the house would have been her own business and not anyone else's if she was younger and independent but she's elderly and not able to relocate on her own or take care of herself, and so it did involve us, her family.

This is why I mentioned there's risk in being financially dependent on a person with a disorder. Even if they seem fine with this, if they "split" they can make irrational decisions.

As to the porn addiction, I've been in 12 step groups from the other side (CODA, ACA) and in these groups I've met people in recovery from addictions and partners of people with addictions. I know you have been in therapy and so I assume you've brought this up but to have a rule that an addict doesn't "use" is a boundary that only applies to you. It's your BF that has the addiction and he probably isn't in control of his own- (that's not an excuse but a fact) and nobody can control his addiction externally. If your boundary is "no porn" then you would have to make the decision of what you would do now that you found this out. We can't control someone else's behavior.

My best guess is that when you discovered his use, it wasn't just guilt, it was shame. PwBPD have difficulty with uncomfortable emotions. I think some of the responsibility avoidance is shame avoidance. Addictive behavior is a compulsion. It's got nothing about you or a promise to you. This doesn't mean  people with addictions aren't responsible for their behavior- they are, but it's a conditition that requires a lot of their own personal work and motivation to change. BPD can co-exist with addictions.

I think the choices and decions of what you want to do are good topics to bring up with your therapist. It is about you and your boundaries, what you can manage for your own emotional well being and security.

Maybe it's possible to divide the issues:

Porn:  Your sex addict / non-recovered partner may be ashamed about the content, but also somewhat soothed by a dopamine hit. For him, this is scrolling Instagram:  it's avoidance, it's exciting, and possibly a better option than doing something else...  Don't take it personally. Instead, consider that it may be a poorly formed coping response.

As a side note, nothing good ever came from my awareness of my uBPDxw's online activities, other than me gaining conviction about who she really was.  To any extent that I attempted to address certain things, she felt that her privacy was violated, even though we had agreed at multiple points to share devices, etc (of course, she felt at liberty to snoop on my devices any time... not that there was anything incriminating to see).  Straight talk here: When you get to this point, it's super difficult to reestablish trust.

Then there's the other issue: property and finances and dependencies.  You've received some very good, fair, pragmatic comments on this already.

Finally, there are the issues around therapy and support.  It might be helpful to think of these activities selfishly - how are they helpful to you?  Rather than how are they going to help him....  i.e., you have this community, your therapist, and some anecdotal information about whoever he's talking to at the VA.  Instead of hoping that these resources will somehow change or influence him...  how can you use them for yourself, so that you can chart the best path forward - however things unfold going forward.

Does that make sense?  What I'm suggesting is: be generous with yourself.

Thanks NotWendy. I totally agree with the house thing. This topic has actually come up between us before, and I've repeatedly told him that I'm not comfortable putting my house in his name as it's the only real asset I have and if we broke up, I'd be homeless. My house is worth 5x what I paid for it 16 years ago, and it's paid off. I need that equity. And he has his IRAs. He would actually get upset with me if I even mentioned the possibility of us ever breaking up.

As far as retirement, I had no choice. My symptoms had become so bad since I lost 3 of my closest relatives back to back in 2021, that I was not a functional person. This had been a problem for a long time but got much, much worse in 2021. Since I have been battling PTSD and Depression for so long, I made sure to be as responsible, financially as possible because I knew I'd need to retire early. So I have zero debt. All I have is utility bills, property taxes, food, etc. But I'm not getting my full retirement pay yet (it can be a few more months before that's fully processed). Once it's finalized, I'm still not sure it'll be enough to live off. Maybe if I didn't need to eat.

I have been to CODA meetings before, too. I really enjoyed them. I went for over a year, regularly, then off and on since then.

I really think he should go to SLAA or SAA meetings. I haven't mentioned to him that I believe he's a sex addict. I know that will trigger him. But I think this conversation needs to happen at some point.

We both are survivors of sexual assault. And I think people can go in 2 extreme directions after that. And I went one way, and he went the other. Sex is a big trigger for me. I avoid it. I have a lot of negative feelings about it.

You're right about the boundary, it applies to me. And the boundaries were that if he broke any of our very simple rules (no lying, no secrets, no porn/cheating), that I'd be leaving. And I'm struggling a lot with that right now. I've spent an enormous portion of my life reading about all of these issues, Cluster B's, abusive relationships, sex addiction, etc. I know the odds of a successful relationship. And it makes me want to just give up now to avoid any further hurt down the road. But, on the other hand, things were really good up until 2 months ago. And he's receptive and actually WANTS to go to couples therapy (he has now also agreed to the DBT again). I think those are the ONLY 2 ways this has a chance. He's a very emotional, sensitive, right-brained person. So I think that therapy could actually work with him. It might actually work better for him than it does for me (I'm VERY left-brained and emotion type thinking is hard for me, I think in just straight logic).

I have talked about this with my therapist. And we went over pros and cons. And my therapist thinks that there are more pros than cons. He also really believes that if my bf did DBT and learned to handle his emotions, that this could work.

Thanks EyesUp. I understand about the snooping at devices thing. This was something we discussed at the beginning of our relationship because he was hiding things and I have severe trust issues as it is. I told him I have nothing to hide. I don't. I don't care if he looks at my phone, my computer, whatever. I'm an open book. From that point forward, he was very open and showing me anything. If an ex texted him, he'd tell me immediately and show me (they were always innocuous). When he split and I had absolutely no idea what was going on because this hasn't happened and was so out of left field, I had to see what he was doing. But I am trying not to look at his computer now. I even went and stayed with my grandma for a bit to avoid being near his computer. But there is nothing to do over there, so I ended up coming home, where I can distract myself with video games or something.

He has therapy at the VA tomorrow (with a real therapist, not the headache one). Then we have couples therapy again with my therapist on Thursday (this will be the first time we see each other since the split). Then we are starting couples therapy with a DBT therapist at a DBT clinic on the 28th. I think I'm really waiting to make any decisions until we do these 2 couples sessions.

I think this still comes down to you and your own boundary/tolerance- what can you manage? What are you willing to compromise on and what you would not? People deal with boundary violations in different ways. This is individual. I know couples who somehow managed to resolve infidelity- others could not. Same with addictions and mental illness.

It's not a judgment or one choice for all.  If you choose to see how your BF does with therapy- if he does do that, will this works for you or will you be worried and stressed over it?

This may be a deal breaker for you. Or, if your relationship has been going well and your H is willing to seek therapy- then waiting to see how this goes is an option too. It's your choice.

There's nothing wrong about considering every angle when contemplating making your personal property into joint property.  I'll share this here since financial issues exist.


This was back in the 1980s when grandpa was still alive.  My mother explained that step-gma paid taxes on her interest income, she had that much.  Yet she still felt entitled to live on his income/retirement.

You should feel comfortable with your financial decisions of course but you ought to be aware of risks to your own financial future if someone feels entitled to seek major financial entanglements.  For example, if you did split at some future time, unwinding joint ownership could become quite messy and emotionally stressful.

I want to thank everyone again for all the support and insights. This group has been a godsend.

This is the latest. A couple of days ago, I thought we had a breakthrough. This would be around day 10 since the split. He said, "I need to stop hating the girl I love." I thought, "wow, he's finally gaining some self awareness".

The porn thing is still eating at me. It was very hard for me to ever trust him at all, especially with all the secrets I kept finding out about in the beginning. And I have trust issues to begin with. And we talked long and hard about how serious trust, openness, and honesty were to me. And to find he's right back to doing the same thing that caused us to break up repeatedly in the beginning. And, like back then, he seems to have no remorse or guilt. He actually wants ME to feel bad for him (for what? for catching him? I don't even know!).

Today, he seemed in a good mood. So I thought I'd try to talk about it and see if he understands how serious it is that he destroyed the trust in this relationship. I would think most people would get that, but he seems very nonchalant about it. Like I'm supposed to just get over it and pretend it never happened. I decided to try to bring it up again to reiterate the seriousness. We'd been communicating better and seemed to be on the right path so I guess I figured it'd be ok to bring up.

Him: I'm concerned that you won't or can't forgive and forget and commit to moving forward in a positive way. You tend to be very negative.

Me: I'm concerned that this is the same pattern we went thru at the beginning. Promising to not keep secrets, getting caught, promising again, getting caught, etc. Doesn't seem like it will end. Also, it seems like you view it as no big deal. You took all the trust I had built in you, which was very hard to do, and nuked it into oblivion. And I remember you telling me that all the sex stuff is why [ex wife] left you and how much you regret it and don't ever want to make that mistake again. But I feel it will destroy our relationship too.

Him: Well, that's the problem. If you can never trust me again and continue to think that I'm not on your team, then I'm sorry, but we might as well give up on each other. I don't want to be with someone who can't or won't trust me, and thinks I have so many problems because I actually like myself and think pretty good guy. It's seems like you don't think so. [Grammar errors included]

Me (defeated): Thanks for trying to understand. I didn't deserve that.

Him (full blown meltdown mode): It feels like our relationship is already destroyed because you're so negative about me. I'm a good person. A lot of people like me and think that I'm ok. I'm tired of you treating me like there's something wrong with me. I sure as hell didn't deserve what you said to me!


This is basically what it's like any time I try to talk about the issues in this relationship. In fact, his messages are basically identical to msgs sent to me back when we were going through this in the beginning of our relationship, over and over. Always trying to twist it around on me. Not taking responsibility. No empathy.

I don't really see hope for him because he refuses to just accept the surrounding reality. He's 66 and has zero self-awareness and refuses to admit that his behaviors are problematic. Despite 4 divorces. He's literally looking at a life of solitude at this point, statistically, but he refuses to just behave like an adult and deal with his issues.

I just don't understand how he was like this in the beginning, then was fine for 2 years (except for minor blow ups over stupid things, nothing on this scale), and then this again now. And you'd think that after days/weeks to think about it, he'd come to his senses, but that never happens. He just immediately goes right back into this state again in the blink of an eye.

I don't deserve this, and I don't want to deal with it. I just don't know how I'm going to survive alone, financially now. Also, I need a companion. I'm thinking of getting a dog. But of course, I can't afford that either. But mentally, I can't afford NOT to have a dog, either. The other day, he told me he didn't want me to replace him with a dog. I've been holding off on getting this puppy I want because I wanted to give him a chance to take responsibility for what he's done to our relationship and work on his issues. But I just don't see much hope because he just reverts to acting like this again. We have couples therapy on Thursday, and I have no doubt he'll respond like this again after that. That's how we got in this situation to begin with.

I suspect those "a lot of people" are not in a close emotional relationship with him.  They might notice some things a little 'off' but overall they're on the emotional periphery of his life.  You have been so emotionally close to him and the public face he displays can't be maintained, you see the cracks up close.  None of us are perfect and we can't expect others to be perfect either, but there are some aspects that we individually are entitled to declare to be deal breakers.

This is the most difficult stuff...

If I'm reading you correctly, you... 
- feel that trust has been broken and that it will be difficult to repair
- feel financial stress
- want companionship

Does that sound about right?

On the first point, what's the goal for therapy?  Is it to get him to acknowledge your feelings?  Or is it to try to chart a path forward?  Are these two things compatible?

On the next point - you've mentioned this a few times. Do you feel that slowing things down and taking time to weigh your options could help?  Would an attempt to return to "status quo" enable you to make a plan / build some cushion?

On the last point - it might feel like a dog would offset the emotional loss you're feeling.  My suggestion would be to try to keep this decision separate from the more immediate issues and to avoid using a pet as a distraction from the other concerns.  No matter how things play out, you can always get a pet - later.

It seems like the priority has to be Thursday.

Sometimes thinking about a worst case scenario is the best way to prepare for whatever comes next...  With that in mind:  What happens if he won't acknowledge or validate your feelings in therapy?  Is there a chance to avoid an abrupt break?  i.e., would it be better to have a hard landing or a soft one?

Thank you again, EyesUp, for the insightful and thought-provoking questions.

Yes, I feel like the trust is gone. I'm unsure if it can be fixed at this point. The reason I'm unsure is that he's not even trying, and because he seems to think that I should just snap my fingers and get over it. He's not taking it seriously. He's giving himself a free pass to do whatever he wants in our relationship, and thinks I should give him a free pass as well. Generally, when someone screws up on such a colossal scale as he has with these two big recent issues (his split, calling police, abruptly leaving and then finding out about the secret porn watching), they put a proportional amount of work into trying to atone for what they did wrong. He hasn't really done anything. And barely apologized. And this has happened in the past when he's messed up. And his lack of empathy is a huge concern because his behavior now is exactly like psychopaths/narcissists I've dealt with in the past. It's very triggering. If he sees all this as no big deal, then there's no reason to believe he won't do it again.

My goal for therapy is to get him to realize the extent of the damage he's done to our relationship with his recent behaviors. To acknowledge that he has these outbursts when I'm trying to have a conversation with him, which makes communicating basically impossible. To acknowledge his behavior isn't at all normal. And to actually put real effort into wanting to deal with his issues so that we can have a healthy relationship. Right now, he refuses to really acknowledge the extent of his issues. So, right now, I feel like if he does therapy with this mindset, it'll just be like last time - just to appease me. He won't take it seriously, he won't really try, there won't be any long-term change.

As for finances, in the next few months, I'll be getting my full retirement pay. I might be able to afford living simply at that point. Right now, I'm just getting interim payments while they finalize everything. It's just a totally different lifestyle than we had planned together. We had huge plans for our future and we prepared accordingly. We sold basically everything he owned (house, boat, furniture) and moved into my house because there are projects left unfinished on my house that we need to finish in order to sell it. I don't know if I want to live the life I'd be forced to live. Also, I don't think it'd be possible to finish my kitchen and bathroom which are gutted right now because I'd never be able to come up with the money to do that. I'd be living paycheck to paycheck. And I really hate living where I live. Every day, I want to get out of here.

But for him, he's literally starting from scratch. He has no house, no boat, no furniture (a couple end tables and a bed and a dresser). His truck has to be returned to the dealer in a week because the lease is up. We weren't planning on keeping it since we were making these plans to move to Hawaii. So now he's scrambling to try to figure out what he's going to do about his car situation. That's another reason why I would think he'd be putting serious effort into apologizing and making amends for what he did, but he's not. And I find that very concerning.

As for the dog, it's difficult to express this. But my dog who passed 3 years ago was my entire world. I've been single most of my life and always had really close bonds to a dog. I've never been without a dog. But I was so devastated by what happened to him that I haven't gotten another. I was searching for dogs the other day that looked like my last dog (which is very rare) and I found one a few hours away where the father dog looks so close to my last dog, and they have one pup available. It may sound irrational, but I just want another dog that is as amazing as my last dog. And this pup might be gone any day now. But there are a lot of pros and cons to weigh. I think it would help me, emotionally (I suffer from PTSD and depression) but it would be a lot more work than what I already have on my plate. However, I'd be set up better if/when my ex abruptly abandoned me again in the future. It'd be a much easier transition than going from having him and his dog here for years and suddenly being in an empty house, literally without warning.

I don't know if there's a chance at anything without him acknowledging his behavior and the hurt it caused. This is so triggering for me because I have PTSD from dealing with literal psychopaths in my past (literally, men I found out had massive secrets like they were felons, pedophiles, registered sex offenders, the name they gave me wasn't real, etc). This nonchalant, un-empathetic response that he's giving me now is very much what I've dealt with in my past, and it's very triggering. I don't want to be in a relationship with a monster. He needs to acknowledge that I have feelings and the severity of his behavior and the hurt it causes.

If someone lacks insight to their own behavior, and projection and denial are a part of their coping mechanism, this is what they do.

On your part- you are feeling this as personal and it's distressing to you and hurts the relationship but I don't think hurting you is his motive. I have experienced a similar response with my BPD mother. It's not personal to me as she does this with everyone, but it feels worse when it's a close relationship.

Feelings change quickly. In the moment she may say something and sincerly mean it but if her feelings change, then she feels differently.

Here's my own idea about what your BF did ( I can't know for certain why anyone does something but it's another perspective). Yes, he made a promise but he's also dealing with his own emotions and body feelings and let's just say he had a certain need in the moment and wanted quick resolution. This is the other aspect about my BPD mother and while it's not the same behavior- if she wants something, she wants it immediately, and that is her focus, not anyone else. That is all she's thinking about and is impulsive, even if there are consequences later.

I'm not excusing your BF's behavior. He did break your trust. But in the moment, he wanted something and that is all he thought about. All addictions come down to one thing: escape from uncomfortable feelings. In addition, all addictions are detrimental- there are consequences, but in the moment, all the addict can think about is the "fix" they want.

I am not familiar with sex/love addictions but this is a particularly difficult situation because it has a biological component. One can stop using drugs or alcohol but you can't stop a biological drive like that.  Also, you both have your own complicated experiences due to the history of SA. Shame is common and your BF may have done this in secret due to feeling a lot of shame over it. He wasn't trying to break your trust. He may have been afraid for you to find out. So his pretending to not be accountable is a part of this and it can be shame avoidance. So when you keep pushing him to go deeper into his own feelings- he's reacting like he is. It's even possible he isn't formulating coherent thoughts about it. He may not even know why he had the need.

This is your boundary to decide on. If you can't trust him, then you can't- and so you then need to decide what you are going to do. Since the two of you are living together and there are financial plans that need to be made, a fast decision isn't practical for either of you. IMHO, from what you have posted, you've brought this up several times with your BF and see how he responds. Doing it again is likely to get the same response and probably escalate the situation. As to therapy- you may have a better result if you don't keep pushing this and let him speak his version, even if it's not true. Otherwise, he's going to probably feel cornered and clam up.

Shift the focus to you. You need some time to process this and he does too. Don't make a quick decision, it's not practical for either of you right now. Give yourself some emotional space from this kind of conversation- it's not working anyway- and give him some too so he can calm himself down. He may feel he's being punished for his deed that he may already feel some shame about. He may see this as having nothing to do with you because emotionally, his intimacy is just with you and for this, it was just a physical release and doesn't see it as having anything to do with you. You see this differently and I am not mimimizing the impact it has on you- this is your boundary to decide, it's your feelings, how he feels about it may be different but you are the one to decide what works in a relationship for you.