BPDFamily.com

Hi, first post  :hi:

I’ve been reading around this site and learned about the karpman drama triangle, which my partner with BPD and I dance around often in our relationship. He takes the role of victim or perpetrator, and I take the role of rescuer or victim. I want to stay centered going forward, but I’m having issues when it comes to apologies and feelings of unfairness.

Sometimes I do or say something innocuous that triggers him to split on me. He can say mean and hurtful things in that state. For the most part, I have learned to not take what he says to heart. But, it still hurts and at minimum ruins my mood for a bit. Sometimes he apologizes. But when he doesn’t (like if he still thinks his words were justified), the hurt lingers and I feel a sense of injustice. I’m afraid that if I let it go I’m making myself a victim and resentment will build. Asking for an apology sometimes work, but usually it just starts him up again.

On the other hand, sometimes he will expect an apology after a split for whatever I did that triggered him. If I feel I actually did something wrong, I will apologize. I’m not sure what to do in the case where I genuinely did nothing wrong and/or I feel that his behavior while split was hurtful/verbally abusive. If I apologize, I feel like I’m betraying myself and playing the rescuer. If I don’t, it will almost certainly trigger him into another split, and I don’t want to willfully antagonize him.

Do you all have any advice/experience to share?  Any response is greatly appreciated  :hug:

And the double standards part: sometimes he will expect me to apologize for the exact things he would never apologize for. Ex, rushing him when he regularly rushes me and complains about how slow I am. It’s so frustrating!

Are we living the same life? Sometimes I think about how un-equal our relationship is. The way that I am not "allowed" to do some of the same tings they do to me. Rushing is a big one, so is namecalling, or being critical of appearence. I can only imagine the fire & brimston that would rain down if  if I were to say those things. Yet I've had them done to mee 100s if not 1000s of times.

I have been angry with myself at times for the things I've apologised for. I don't mind apologising when I am wrong, but I've been screamed at and called names and I've been the one saying sorry. When the rage episode is over, sometimes they will say sorry, sometimes they will pretend nothing hapened and sometimes they will resurrect the episode by saying that they aren't going to say sorry because i don't deserve it. 

Hello doopywoo and a warm *welcome*

Glad you found us and already jumped into learning from the resources! The Karpman drama triangle can be a helpful framework to apply to conflict -- a way to get us back in touch with "oh, that's the dynamic that's happening again". Identifying the dynamic is a way to move to the center  |iiii

If you're curious about a related framework, Lynne Forrest's article "The Three Faces of Victim – An Overview of the Victim Triangle" (https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/) suggests that all the roles on the triangle are "victim at heart". (We also have a brief poll/workshop (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108384.0) on her article.)

...

How long have the two of you been together? Any kids?

Does your partner have an official diagnosis of BPD; if so, does he seem accepting of it, dismissive, in denial...?

Is your partner in any kind of treatment, counseling, or therapy? Are you?

...


How soon after you sense that he is splitting, does he begin saying mean and hurtful things (immediately, or is there a ramp up)?

How long do you stay in the same room/area listening to him, once he starts saying those things?

...

These are not easy relationships, and the approaches to making them "livable enough" or "less bad" aren't always intuitive... and are often less about managing the partner or getting the partner to change, and more about building a stronger sense of your own self -- your worth, your values, your choices, your rules for what you allow into your own life (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0).

Looking forward to learning more of your story;

kells76

Hey cynp. I relate to everything you said. I’ve tried telling him to imagine if I said the things he says to me… it didn’t seem to get through

Hi Kells, thanks for your response and reading recommendations, I’ll look at them!

We’ve been together for 3.5 years, no kids. He does not have an official diagnosis for BPD; he has been diagnosed with ADHD and CPTSD, and maybe 2 years ago the two of us came to the conclusion that he has BPD as well. He fits the criteria to a tee. He is accepting of it and is somewhat aware of the symptoms, but I don’t think he really understands how much it affects me or our relationship day-to-day. He had a therapist and psychiatrist for a bit some time before we met but hasn’t since, except a therapist for a couple months back in 2022ish. I’ve been trying to get him to find any kind of treatment since we met. He didn’t have insurance for some time, but now that he does, he swears that he is looking for a therapist but can’t find one that would work with his schedule. I don’t really buy that, but I can’t force the issue and bringing it up usually causes a meltdown.

I’ve been medicated for generalized anxiety and depression for years, and I believe I am autistic (undiagnosed), all of which makes the situation harder. I had a therapist for a while but had to stop recently bc of an insurance issue. Currently in the process of finding a new one and will soon start with a new psychiatrist.

It’s very frustrating. I have told him several times if he wants things to get better, he has to get professional help. He agrees but just delays and delays and nothing changes.

He is stuck on this idea that until he gets help, we should try to have strategies for dealing with the conflict, which I agree with, but that usually just looks like him expecting me to tolerate his behavior and/or tiptoeing around to avoid his triggers. As yall know, that is just not possible. Inevitably I will trigger him, and he gets upset that “after all this time I still don’t understand” him and his triggers. I think he knows logically that his triggers and his behavior is his responsibility, but in practice it all falls on me and I hate it.

As for the splitting, it varies. Sometimes there’s a ramp up where he’s visibly irritated or his tone changes before really going off; sometimes he goes 0 to 100.

I will leave the room if he starts insulting me or yelling. He sometimes walks away before that point. he’ll sulk alone for a couple hours. I try to disconnect my feelings from his, but it’s hard.

We are engaged, and I want to make it work although it is very hard. Of course it’s not all bad. We love each other and usually get along and have fun. I’ve been working on the sense of self stuff and developing my own interests. I’m trying to learn here how to best handle the challenges and take care of myself better.

I definitely understand this frustration.

I wonder if maybe there is an issue when it comes to being on the same page regarding what is needed for tough times.

I eventually wanted to speak with my partner (once she felt better) about what she needs/expects from me as a partner when things get rough. It was tough but useful.

In the end I found that she needed me to open up more to her. I thought I was open and honest but apparently it wasn't enough to her. I guess her biggest thing was me acting like I was keeping secrets. And this is where she brought up the double standard bit, saying I don't give her what I ask from her (ie honesty).

We have both been trying to get things to be good 99% of the time, and just having check ins has been helpful.

Not sure if your partner would receive this approach well since there is a chance a woman might appreciate this approach more.

Hi doopywoo,

I have definitely experienced all that you're experiencing. Double standard is a very common occurance for me- if I dare to do the say/ do the things he does, he probably will threaten to divorce me, or at least he will use it to attack me for a very, very long time. Yet if he does it, it's because of my faults- because I have triggered him, or because I didn't handle a situation well. So for him, it doesn't require any apology, or he may give one anyway, but it'll be like "I'm sorry I did this, but xxx". So yes, the responsibility is never on him. It's everybody else.

But of course you can't say to him, "you're any adult, why couldn't YOU have handled it better?" I think sometimes, we all could have handled it better. Thing is, I would take responsibilty for my own part in the matter, and he would go "yes, exactly, it's your fault". If you try to point out he has a part to play in a conflict (or his reaction to it), he would say you're trying to put the blame on him (projection). I don't think you can hold a person with BPD accountable for things. You can only control how you don't reinforce such ideas. For example, I have learnt on this board too apologise for what I'm responsible for only (be specific in my own apologies, like "I'm sorry I lost my temper"), and not to take on responsibility on their part ("I'm sorry- everything is my fault"). Whether or not the other party takes responsibility for their own actions is not something we can control, but hopefully we can show them a good example.