BPDFamily.com

Hello everyone,
Bear with me getting this explanation written.   Back on Christmas Day my sister had a "meltdown" when I was visiting her and her husband.   I had to leave their house as she was yelling and breaking things, and my plan to spend the night was not going to work out.   I had done prior reading on personality disorders, and I was already on the verge of concluding she had BPD when this "event" happened.   She wrote me in the middle of the night... .that same night I drove 300 miles home... .  to apologize for her husband, when it was actually her strange behavior which forced me to leave.   During that (Christmas) day she was also talking about divorcing her husband... .in front of both him and me,  and this alone was upsetting.  Her husband is very loyal to her, and he's the 3rd husband she's had.  My sister turned 60 y.o. on 12 Feb, by the way.

I was scared for her future, and I wrote her that her getting a divorce would be a huge mistake.   I may have made a mistake in what I also wrote:  that I had been studying her behavior for a very long time, and that I had concluded that she has BPD.   Her reply was vile, to say the least.  That "I" had a mental problem, and that she was going to contact all our friends and relatives with this... .news.   Although the Email dialog was only between the three (3) of us, her, her husband, and myself,  it made no sense to me for her to broadcast this angry discussion to anyone else.   She made good on her threat, and I confirmed that at least four friends, and two relatives, had received messages from her concerning me.   One couple wrote to me that they were concerned about the "tone" of her message, and they offered me a shoulder to lean on.   I stopped writing to her on the 27th, nor did I have any phone conversation with her.

A week later she got into a shouting match with her husband.   Her neighbors called the police who came to her door.  Her husband (previously in law enforcement) placated the officers and they left.   She then resumed yelling at him, and he called an Uber taxi and then called the police ... .himself... .to return to their home.   He told the officers that he had "had a few" and needed to leave for a hotel because his wife would not let him go to sleep.   He left in the Uber taxi,  but could not get decent sleep because she stayed up the rest of the night texting and leaving him phone messages.   He needs his phone for work; he is on call.   He told me this in a phonecall several days after the fact;  everything I wrote here he related to me.

I've noticed my sister, ever since college, has had an anger management problem.   I think she is presently under financial pressure and is drinking more than usual  (hard to tell).     She has a history of saying the most hurtful things imaginable when you "cross" her;  this is not a new development.   She also becomes paranoid as to the intentions of the people around her when she goes off; makes no difference that a person is either a friend or family member.   Then,  next day,  all is either forgotten or never remembered from the day before.   No apologies and no remorse is ever in evidence.   Absolutely never the case that she apologizes.   She has claimed to have been sexually molested by our mother until age 11, when she claims she told our mother "I will kill you if you ever touch me again" ... .and then she says that she would dream of the day she could leave home.   I consider our mother (now deceased)  as having NPD, which is the main reason I was researching the personality disorders to begin with.

I now wonder if there was any different, better way to have informed my sister... .who has a high IQ... .that she has BPD.   I'm pretty sure she's not bipolar;  I'm familiar with the "episodic" nature of bipolar disorder,  but I wonder if there is also some dissociative disorder at work in her personality, as well.   She is in a people business:  real estate.   She stopped writing replies to my chatty, monthly Email messages to her about a year ago and I found that disrespectful but never said anything at the time.   I figured she was busy with her work, but her husband told me that her business had dropped off significantly in 2016.  He says she hibernates in the 2nd bedroom with the computer when she is not working or dealing with the family dog. 

I guess my other big question is whether she will ever take me seriously about my 5-cent Lucy diagnosis that she has BPD.   Is this something like alcoholism where a person has to hit ... .and will eventually hit... .rock-bottom?    She scared me on Christmas.  She was like someone possessed, and now I cannot make myself "trust" her ... .and I told her so in that reply to her first message the day after Christmas.   Was this another mistake on my part?

I had a friend send me some E-file version of "A Guide to DSM-5" and I read every section which seemed to have any relevance to my sister's behavior.   I've been reading online,  and the more I read, the more I am convinced that she has BPD.   I've had my own issues over the years to contend with:  I learned at age 59 that I have a bit of Asperger's ... .from discovering a description in a book.    This did not prevent me from being good at my job as an engineer in support of manufacturing  (I retired in 2011 at age 60).

I guess I would like to know if my experience is a common one,  and what would be the best course of action going forward.   Emotionally,  I feel like I had been kicked in the head by a mule on Christmas and the following day.   The entire month of January I felt like I was in a fog,  going through something like "stages of grief" and telling my close friends god-knows what ... .about my encounter with my sister.   I now have no desire to visit or speak with her,  and I told her husband that I would "give them a year" without my contacting them ... .to work things out.   And I told him not to contact me except in case of an emergency.   I am worried what is going on with them,  but I put it out of mind.    Comments?

Hi keyboardsavant

Welcome to BPD Family.  Sorry to hear what you are going through.  Yes, I can relate to what you are asking and I suspect that many of us here have had the same thoughts and desires to explain BPD to our loved ones.

Typically, the literature says this is not a good idea and there are a couple of reasons I can think of as to why that is.

First off, the nature of BPD is that the impacted person cannot entirely see themselves, which is by definition is BPD.  So, in essence it is like telling someone the following; you have a problem that prevents you from seeing that you have a problem - let me tell you that you have this problem.  See how this is circular? 

BPD is referred to as a Character-ological disorder.  This means that the nature of the disorder is the person themselves.  They are literally the personification of the character traits that you are trying to address with them.  Addressing a pwBPD about their BPD must sound a little bit like a personal attack to them, which is going to hurt your attempts to communicate with them.

It is an old axiom, but true; we cannot change other people, only ourselves.  Even if they want your help, you can only help them to help themselves.  It is a very frustrating and sad situation.  But, we can learn tools that will help improve our relationship with our pwBPD.  There are some wonderful resources on this site that address just that. 

Have a look at the lessons section and see if anything jumps out at you.

How about these as starters: Communication Skills - Don't Be Invalidating (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating)

A 3 Minute Lesson on Ending Conflict (https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict)

Where are you at now with your r/s?  Are you in regular contact of any kind?

JRB

Hello JRB,
I just now read your reply to my post.   I totally agree with your catch-22 description of how and why my attempt to tell my sister that she is "pwBPD" was met with 100% rejection of the idea, and her 'need' to retaliate ... .by opening up this private dialog to our friends and relatives.   That she did broadcast this issue to friends and relatives... .apparently in order to punnish me... .I would have thought that this would have self-demonstrated to her that she has a logical breakdown.  In my scheme of things, I figured this would have caused her to eventually reconsider what I was telling her.   I guess that even such rudimentary logic does not work with a pwBPD, high IQ not withstanding.    However... .I felt desperate, as I saw her as trying to build a case for divorcing her husband.   In a flash I could see her life spiralling downward, and she to be needing me to be her caretaker... .with him out of the picture.

To answer your question about my being in contact with her  (and what does "r/s" you wrote signify?):  I have no desire right now to be in contact with her or her husband.   I told him I had spoken my piece, and I intend to avoid phoning or writing her until January 2018.    I should explain that I'm still in shock over being made aware of my own denial.    For years I had "taken her side" of any arguments she has had with her husband(s) or other family members.   She seems to hold men who she considers "weak" in very low regard, so I certainly cannot "go back" on anything I have said to her.   All she seems to acknowledge is "resolve" on the part of other people,  whether or not she agrees with them.    It must have been quite a shock for her to have read what I sent her on 26 December... .a total turn-around from my habit of never assigning her any blame, and just remaining noncommital even when I had disagreed with her.

Just to illustrate that point:  I now wonder (believe, actually) that she was the person who destroyed her marriage to her 2nd husband.   He had his own issues,  and it was probably her "throwing gasoline" on his fire which caused him to self-destruct:  become depressed, drink more, and eventually to leave her with a large credit-card debt (pay-back).   And up until Christmas I had been thinking she was the 100% "wronged" party.   

As for validation... .I did look at the 2 articles... .but I think it is very difficult for me to find anything to use to "validate" any portion of what she THINKS she is going through.   Nearly everything she has been complaining about is either 100% of her own doing, or a fabrication... .especially her idea that her husband is the "cause" of all her problems.    Now you know why it was relatively easy for me to say "NC"

Hey keyboardsavant:   
I'd like to join joeramabeme in welcoming you.

Sounds like your sister may have  SPLIT  (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62033.0) you black.   People with BPD (pwBPD) like to blame others and launch a smear campaign.  I've been through this with my sister.


It never goes well when you try and confront someone with BPD (or strong BPD traits) and try to tell them what's wrong with them. It is common for them to turn it around on you and say you are the one with the problem.

It is good to set your personal  BOUNDARIES (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0) and enforce them.  Your boundaries are for you.  The other person won't generally like your boundaries, so it will be up to you to enforce them.  Your boundary to have no contact (NC) until next year will be up to you to enforce.  So, if you get phone calls, texts or emails that don't comply with your boundary, then you need to defend your boundary. (don't reply to the text or email.  Don't return a voice mail, etc.)


Validation isn't about agreeing with your sister.  It is about acknowledging her feelings.  (i.e.  "I'm sorry you are upset" "It sound very distressing for you"  "I can hear you are having a bad day"  etc.).   

You never want to validate something that is invalid.  Sometime, it can be more important to just NOT invalidate her.  Invalidation can even occur by tone, facial expression or body language.  Sometimes, the best approach may be to just not say anything or show any expressions that can be taken as invalidating.

The word VALIDATION doesn't imply that you co-sign what you know to be inaccurate, rather, it is a validation of her feelings - at a minimum not a rejection of her feelings.

Take for example the spouse that has had a hard day at work and comes home and starts yelling about the dirty dishes that aren't put away.  The validation isn't that the dishes are or are not dirty, rather, the spouse is upset. (HARD STOP).  Validate that the spouse is upset.  The dishes is not really the topic.

Of course we are not always aware of whether or not the topic is actually the topic or are the emotions with the topic - but for a pwBPD, they need to know that there feelings are acknowledged.  This alone can bring a sense of understanding that makes the rest of a dialogue easier.

Now that you know your sister is BP, do you feel that you can use some of these tools to help with your r/s with her?  Note I did not say "fix".

Hi People,
I'm still not familiar with this software for "blogging" ... .so I'm not sure if this reply will be read by both people who replied to me from yesterday.

I get it:  validation is about emotions, rather than agreeing with the pwBPD's flawed logic in reacting to a situation.   But even knowing this, and looking back on my dust-up with my sister at Christmas... .  there wasn't a clear-cut reason for her having such a strong emotional reaction where she ended up throwing things.   The run-up to that episode had me and my brother-in-law as the main participants in a heated debate with each other;  she was more the bystander.   I think she was harboring a grudge against him for losing a piece of cookware,  which she constantly reminded him about during that day.   When he and I were debating,  she somehow "tranferred" her bad feelings about that cookware to her husband being argumentative and ruining the evening.   The ironic thing is that he and I concluded the debate to both our satisfactions.   Guess I'm saying that even her "emotion" that evening could not be directly validated, especially by someone (me) who is new to this sort of mental gymnastics.   Does this make sense?

The level of hatred she expressed for her husband that evening... .scared me,  by the way.   Had I been him,  I would have hesitated in trying to get some sleep with her being in the same house.    This also contributed to my decision to "avoid" her for 2018 after her smearing me to all of our friends. 

Hey keyboardsavant:   

This is a message board.  You initiated a "thread" (and are considered the thread owner).  We all see what you see, so we can all see every post within your "thread".


One criteria/trait for BPD is: "Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)."  It seems to be one trait that most people with BPD (pwBPD). have.

You indicate that she seemed to be harboring a grudge against her husband for losing a piece of cookware.  You, also, indicate that you and her husband had a "heated" debate about it.  I'm thinking that set the stage for her response.  You sister was already angry about the situation with the cookware.  When you had a "heated debate" with her husband about it, it put fuel on her emotions and that set her off. 

A validation, very early on, perhaps at the first jab your sister made towards her husband could have been:  "I'm sorry about the missing cookware.  It must have been a favorite piece.  Can I help you find a replacement (i.e. I'm good at shopping on the Internet, etc.)"

If it wasn't possible to validate, then not invalidating is important.  Either the "heated discussion" you had with here husband, in and of itself, incited your sister's volatile response, or something about your interaction with her husband caused her to feel invalidated (either your comments during the discussion, her husband's comments or a combination of both)

This all can seem very perplexing.  Someone without BPD, probably wouldn't have reacted to the situation the way your sister did.  Inappropriate emotional responses are a hallmark of BPD.

The learning opportunity for you might be to examine why you debated with her husband? This strategy on AVOIDING CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0;all) can be helpful, as well as THE KARPMAN DRAMA TRIANGLE  (https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle)