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I'm strong enough to start dating again and have been on a few dates since uBPD girl, and was just wondering if anyone using dating sites is running into a bunch of undiagnosed BPDs? Also, is it possible that there are many more undiagnosed BPD out there then we think, possibly epidemic? Or are the BPD ruining good people who then end up not taking dating serious anymore?

I'm strong enough to start dating again and have been on a few dates since uBPD girl, and was just wondering if anyone using dating sites is running into a bunch of undiagnosed BPDs? Also, is it possible that there are many more undiagnosed BPD out there then we think, possibly epidemic? Or are the BPD ruining good people who then end up not taking dating serious anymore?

"However, it is important to note that a lot of the traits occur in people without this condition especially if they have had relationship troubles in the past."

I agree. The black and white thinking is the only dead giveaway or potentially the need for control.  So many damaged people online anymore, saw a friend who is a girl got dumped on Sunday on FB status,  is already on every dating site come Sunday night, definitely not healthy. May have to go thru friends to meet normal people anymore, which is tricky because online dating is growing so fast.

"The problem was that you can't work on "relationship you" without being in a relationship. But I did try and do things different. Communicated feelings, tried to set boundaries, listened, etc. But I was with someone who was mentally incapable of doing the same back. And as someone posted beautifully, someone with this disorder only knows extremely strong emotions either way. That's why my more relaxed communication would be replied to by silence (like a child) and the only way I'd ever get a response from her was to get more angry. It sucks. I wish I had known all this beforehand. But we can't turn back time."


Exactly.  I wish I knew more beforehand and more awareness was brought to the public.  At least you know now.  I'd have to repeat questions and still not get a response, then when I reciprocated the same silence back I was met with hostility. At first, when I stepped back and knew nothing about BPD, I figured something was thumbing her emotional growth down.  Now I know that on the emotional side of the mind they can be stunted into childhood indefinitely as their logical side continues to grow, which give you them looking as high function and successful on the outside, yet dysfunctional during relationships. It is bazaar but makes sense the more you are educated on it.

The static of 28% definitely seems more accurate, so if you have 28% dating the 72% with the 28% more likely to have more partners over the duration you seem to get all these hurt people who afraid to date again.  Seems like knowledge is power!

"bear in mind bowens family systems theory that states we choose partners with the same level of emotional maturity. bear in mind also that emotional maturity is not fixed in place, it can grow.

if you have been in multiple messy, immature relationships/relationships with someone with BPD traits/mental health issues, it is in your best interest to see it not as "why are they drawn to me" but "why am i drawn to them".

thats where the growth is. not in hypervigilance. not in running at the first red flag. odds are, that will keep you single longer, but still drawn to the same outcome with the same people.

as for detaching by dating: for some people, actively dating is part of normalcy; taking that step is part of getting their life back together. thats very different than "detaching by finding someone to get me over my ex" or "dating to block out the pain/thoughts of my last breakup".

its a personal choice that can go badly either way. time alone does nothing but make you feel better. its why some of us report being single for a long time before we met our exes. you can sit in a room for months on end, and eventually the pain will subside. its about what we do with that time. dating can be part of that, but likewise, it depends on what we do with it.

borderline personality disorder effects between 2-5% of the population. its an extremely informed number. the sorts of red flags/traits/behaviors being described or witnessed may be legitimate warning signs, but not a full blown personality disorder. is the number of people with BPD traits or behaviors higher than 2-5%? definitely. mental illness effects about 28% of the population at a given time. is the number disproportionately represented in online dating? probably not. the dating pool is full of less than suitable candidates."

Very great points. I agree with I need to figure out why I am dawned to these types of women and vice versa. I think part of the reason is that I normally just wait for women to ask me out and these are the types I attract, almost like a magnetic feeling. I can almost guarantee my mom is BPD she fits every trait to at tee, hopefully that didn't rub off on me to bad. I guess I try being more aggressive on my side. I'll just sort out what I will and will not tolerate, the whole experience definitely is an eye opener. The static of 28% definitely seems more accurate, so if you have 28% dating the 72% with the 28% more likely to have more partners over the duration you seem to get all these hurt people who afraid to date again.  Seems like knowledge is power!

"See that's what I did. Just waited for girls to show interest in me. Which is a bad way to attract someone with BPD traits. Then after a 3 year relationship with one I waited about 3 years (did some casual dating but never sex or a committment) and pursued someone else for the first time ever. And it went well for 2 months until she said "I don't think we are right for each other, and it's too early to have discussions about things we can work on." At that same time the second, and current, BPD was breaking up with her boyfriend and that was just a bad mix for me to get sucked in when all she wanted was a rebound. Maybe if I hadn't been dumped right before that I could have withstood.

And I have a soft spot for people who need to be rescued. Dumped a girl way back who had a good head on her shoulders. Probably didn't feel right to me. But I actually thought this one had a good head on her shoulders. Good job, her own place, etc. But i missed the warning signs. all the seductiveness in the beginning. The self-centerdness right from day 1. But that needing rescuing from her abusive boyfriend who hurt her so much (definitely not close to being true knowing what I know now) just made me more drawn. I fell for it again, and I have to pick up the pieces one day at a time."

When someone needs rescued I'd proceed with caution.  I've only attracted a few BPD women because I'm an extremely sexy man in my prime and those relationships never lasted long (under 6 months). What tripped me up was this ex who I did date for 3 years and the new BPDex girl were very similar and identical at first, except when the relationship should have evolved with the BPDex it streamlined.  The BPDex have away of knowing your vulnerabilities and creating the fake persona of the perfect mate during the idealization stage.  I'm not sure how they are able mind read you during this stage but it is very effective to draw you in.

But yes, she really did just latch onto the insecurities so well. Telling me all I needed to hear. Making it seem like she cared. But I was just filling a void for her.

I'm not sure how they are able mind read you during this stage but it is very effective to draw you in.

was it her that was in need of rescuing?

theyre not able to read your mind  *)

hint: its very effective to a person that requires perfect mirroring.

some thoughts... .

bear in mind bowens family systems theory that states we choose partners with the same level of emotional maturity. bear in mind also that emotional maturity is not fixed in place, it can grow.

I had  recently read that this doesn't typically apply to BPD relationships.

I had  recently read that this doesn't typically apply to BPD relationships.

The concept of Differentiation of Self is the ability to separate feelings and thoughts. Undifferentiated people can not separate feelings and thoughts; when dealing with relationships, they are flooded with feelings, and have difficulty thinking logically and basing their decisions on that. This often manifests as unrealistic needs and expectations.  Further, they have difficulty separating  their own feelings from the feelings of others.
<br/>:)ifferentiation is described in many ways in the following points:

1. Growing in the ability to see where and how I fit into my relationship, the position I hold and the power that is and is not given to that position.

2. Growing in the ability to be fully responsible for my own life while being committed to growing closer to those I love.

3. Intentionally developing, at the same time, autonomy and intimacy. In developing autonomy I set myself towards achieving my dreams and ambitions. In developing intimacy, I allow those close to me to see and know me as I really am.

4. Being willing to say clearly who I am and who I want to be while others are trying to tell me who I am and who I should be.

5. Staying in touch with others while, and even though, there is tension and disagreement.

6. Being able to declare clearly what I need and requesting help from others without imposing my needs upon them.

7. Being able to understand what needs I can and cannot meet in my own life and in the lives of others.

8. Understanding that I am called to be distinct (separate) from others, without being distant from others.

9. Understanding that I am responsible to others but not responsible for others .

10. Growing in the ability to live from the sane, thinking and creative person I am, who can perceive possibilities and chase dreams and ambitions without hurting people in the process.

11. Growing in the ability to detect where controlling emotions and highly reactive behavior have directed my life, then, opting for better and more purposeful growth born of creative thinking.

12. Deciding never to use another person for my own ends and to be honest with myself about this when I see myself falling into such patterns.

13. Seeing my life as a whole, a complete unit, and not as compartmentalized, unrelated segments.

14. Making no heroes; taking no victims.

15. Giving up the search for the arrival of a Knight in Shining Armour who will save me from the beautiful struggles and possibilities presented in everyday living.

To differentiate is to provide a platform for maximum growth and personal development for everyone in your circle of influence. It means being able to calmly reflect on a conflicted interaction afterward, realizing your own role in it, and then choosing a different response for the future. Not to differentiate is to fuse (the failure to become a separate person) with others and to place responsibility on others (or on situations, predicaments, and hurdles) for the way in which our lives develop.

These widely accepted theory were developed by Murray Bowen, M.D. in the late 1940s and early 1950s when he was a psychiatrist at the Menninger Clinic. After his time at Menningers, he moved to the National Institute of Mental Health, then to Georgetown University Medical Center and finally established the Georgetown Family Center in Washington, D.C.

Bowen's therapy is a process of increasing one's differentiation or ability to balance automatic reactivity and subjectivity with a factual view of oneself and others.


www.bowentheoryacademy.org/6.html

www.difficultrelationships.com/2006/03/25/bowen-differentiation/

www.psychpage.com/learning/library/counseling/bowen.html

i can assure you it does; it applies to all relationships. a hallmark of a "BPD relationship" is emotional immaturity in both partners.

Other sources (Nicola website) indicate that it does not apply.

Joanna Nicola is not a therapist, psychiatrist, or psychologist, as she herself states. she is the developer of a method to reduce conflict (theres some good to her methods, too). read her about me section :)

in my own experience, and in the experience of watching members go from victims, to survivors, to thrivers, the thriving begins when we look at ourselves and make changes.

its a hard process: looking deep, confronting our own issues. even if we are willing, its hard to be objective about ones self and see past our own blinders.

its a notion youve pushed back on, and i understand if you are not ready; it took me years after my own breakup. are you sure you want to discourage others from doing that work?

"I'm torn between all of this. Because psychologically I know all about projection. All my anger, rage, and anxieties were all because I saw something in myself I didn't like. Now she never cheated on me. That i do know for certain. So by me coming to terms with my projections I have to confront that i could have done better and probably saved this relationship. And that for me is terrible to bear.

But then on the flip side I see that she wasn't able to identify her projections, and it would have taken me to be a superman to continue to be mindful all the time and stay calm and collected. Maybe. But I know I'm fighting a part of this. And it sucks because now I have to admit that although she may have been self-centered. So was I."

You couldn't have save the relationship. The outcome is always the same with exBPDs... .Just assume everything that your exBPD tells you is a lie because it is. Once they have you hook their fears of engulfment or abandonment come into play making them incapable of a lasting relationship. What you are feeling is the ups and downs of life right now where some parts of the day are hard while others are bearable.  Get it out of your head you could not have saved this BPD. They cannot be saved.

So by me coming to terms with my projections I have to confront that i could have done better and probably saved this relationship. And that for me is terrible to bear.

I think the tell tale sign is to pay attention to the black and white thinking, that is a deal breaker for me now.

Unfortunately, you're wrong there is no open and honest communication with a BPD.

You couldn't have save the relationship. The outcome is always the same with exBPDs... .Just assume everything that your exBPD tells you is a lie because it is.

... .

They cannot be saved.

"If I could have learned to discuss with her things like "Hey I'm feeling angry. I know it's going on inside me. Can you help me see why that is?" I know it could have made a world of difference. Tomorrow I'll have differing views I'm sure .

 if I was more mindful, I could have avoided. And I know I know "Well now you know for the next one." But I guess it's still early for me where I wish it could have been with her."

Unfortunately, you're wrong there is no open and honest communication with a BPD. You probably tried to express your feelings early on in the relationship to be stonewalled and learned to not worry about your feelings with her and only care about hers.  This is very one-sided.  This is covet manipulation and emotional abuse on her side. The sooner you stop thinking it is your fault and look at the relationship through the lens as a movie director (as you watching your relationship from an outside view) the quicker you will see that you didn't do the things she accused you of... .

In my experience it's like being the wind on a sail. Whatever direction you blow you push the ship away, it just happens faster or slower.

Maintaining empathy is great but it has its own complications. I'd say overall there's very little impact on anything more than your own sense of dignity, since it's not especially likely that there'll be reiprocal attempts at understanding as you've highlighted. In order to have a constructive relationship both sides need to be making that effort.