BPDFamily.com

I'm relatively new to this forum. I tried to use some of the tools and topics that I learned here to help me in my relationship, but they didn't help at all.

I tried to work this out through marriage counseling, and she couldn't help to get through her either. I was then advised to hire a lawyer, and start the process of trying to get custody of my son from my BPDexgf. The marriage counselor that I saw gave her the diagnosis of BPD after the first session.

I'm wondering if and what as the father of the child (no name on birth certificate, but I already have a notorized DNA test ) to get custody of my son. The law enforcement agencies don't view that as enough to have my son for a night if she doesn't agree.

Steps that I have already taken after being out two weeks:
1) setup a room for my son in my new place
2) had my lawyer consult (best custody lawyer in town)
3) started to get the money needed to hire her
4) started individual counseling with the marriage counselor we saw together
5) started to rebuild relationships with family and friends

Any ideas and thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Hi ForMySon, 

*welcome*

I'd like to welcome you to bpdfamily. I'm sorry to hear that. I can see how distressing that would feel when you're trying to get custody of your son, I can relate with that. Although, I can't offer you legal advice because I'm in a different country, I just wanted to show you some support and to tell you you're in the right forum for that, many of the members here can relate with you and offer you guidance and support.  How old is your son? Are you trying to sort custody before divorce? Again, welcome you can find the lessons on the right side of the board. 

Thank you for welcoming me. A little backstory... .

My son is 2.5 years old. He is an awesome, smart, polite, and funny little man. He has a wonderful outlook on things around him, and I don't want to see that spoiled.

We are not married. She tried to press the issue towards the end of the relationship. I think that she knew she had to try something to force me to stay. I'm so very glad that I dodged that bullet.

I met my BPDexgf ( diagnosed by marriage counselor ) 3 years ago. In the first week together she became pregnant. Not knowing what was hiding behind the mask, I decided that it would be a good idea to try and have a family with this woman. Everything was good for the first couple of months. Around about 4 months in, I don't know what brought about this huge change in her. I at first thought it was hormones, or I thought that because she had stopped taking her anti-depressants for the safety of our child (pregnant), but either way I tried to rationalize it away. I noticed plenty of red flags in the beginning, and I stayed thinking it was best for my son. Fast forward to today and the behaviors haven't changed, and have only intensified. I'm at the point in my life where I think the best thing to do is fight for my child. I don't feel safe that we would share custody of him. I know that the future and showing my son healthy is where I need to put my energy.

What I would like to know are some strategies that will work to allow me to have more custody of my son than her.

I am currently in a hold pattern waiting for the money for the lawyer to come through. I have tried to reasonably discuss custody and child support with her. That has led to deflection, and we haven't been able to discuss resolution.

I have spent a total of 4 hours with my son in 2 weeks. I haven't had my son for an overnight in two and a half weeks ( since I moved out) I tried to force my hand and say that I wanted to keep him, and she went to the cops and tried to press kidnapping (felony child concealment) charges. I was told since my name wasn't on the birth certificate that I had no legal right to the child. ( I do know that he is mine. I have a certified DNA test. She knows he's mine. She had the daycare paperwork notarized listing me as the father.) I want to be more to my child that an every other weekend, one day a week dad, and I don't want her to be able to continue to keep him from me.

I miss him so much, and the thought that I have on regular occasions is that I'm strong enough to take the abuse just to be with my child. The rational side of me keeps me away from trying do to that though. I can't go back into that toxic relationship with her. I can't allow my son to watch his dad get treated in such a way. I can't allow my son to receive this same treatment from her in the future. I hope that I can be the father that my son needs me to be. It's a shame that we couldn't make it work for his sake.

Hmm, maybe let her go ahead and claim he isn't yours?  That ought to fall flat on its face once the court confirms reality.  After all, a claim like that would say someone else was the father, that she had some sort of affair person on the side, so where is that mystery man?

That she would go to that extent when the relationship ends is so tragic.  Sigh, by and large the court won't care about her overreactions.

Many BPD mothers here, at least the majority described here, perceive their children as their validation, their entitlement to do or claim anything.  You lived with her for over 3 years with no police involvement?  :)oesn't matter, attempt to leave, especially with the child, and the claws and hooks come out.  Her black-or-white world now casts you as an abuser rather than an idolized savior.

If you have documentation of her attempts to get married, any texts or emails, etc, then save them because when the relationship is ending who abused strives to get married?  Um, sour grapes, anyone?

Your lawyer ought to be preparing a case to demonstrate that you are a normal person, a normal parent.  That's likely to be her initial claim, that your child is not safe with you and especially not overnight.  (My newly separated spouse - married 15 years and child was 3 years old - insisted the court to limit me to supervised only, too bad CPS had already stood up in court at the temp hearing and stated they had "no concerns" about me.)  Sadly, the child is leverage and she will desperately use the child.  And courts typically defer or default to mothers.  Perhaps not so much when the evaluators submit with their reports.

Is this lawyer capable in court?  While all lawyers know how to file forms and hold hands, fewer have the experience, strategies and proactive stance to get the important points made in court at hearings and trials.

Does she have other children?  If so, are those fathers in their children's lives?

That happened on Tuesday night. She asked me to pick him up from daycare, and I did. She got off work at 7:15 and wanted me to have him home by then. I told her that I wanted to keep him for the night. She disagreed with that, and she went to have the police come pick son and I up. The cop rang me on the phone asked my story. I told him the truth, but I ended up having to take the child back.

There were some moments of police involvement. All times the calls were placed by me, but I was asked to leave them home when they arrived. I was normally the calm rational one when dealing with the police. I think there were maybe 4 times total over 3 years where they were involved.

She has already claimed that she doesn't think that the child will be safe when in my care. I have multiple text conversations to that fact.

My lawyer is very capable in court. From the things that I have heard in the community she is probably the most ruthless family law person in town. I learned about this lawyer from my counselor who knew what I was truly dealing with. When in my first consult with the lawyer, and we were discussing what I would like I said 50%. Continuing the conversation we came upon the topic of borderline and she asked if I was ok with my son being raised in that environment. After the police were called on me, I don't think I want less than 51%.

She has no other children. She was divorced, and she told me he was the abuser. I don't so much believe that anymore. I know that she has been hospitalized multiple times for mental health issues especially in her early 20s.

Hi ForMySon,


I don't want to take your thread off topic but I just wanted to point something out. My S9 has a learning disability, I have another S5 and a D9, S9 is a validation medallion for my exuBPDw, we just had parent teacher interviews last night, I went into the school with the kids, she was there and my son is struggling on this report card I received several emails last night from her basically stating that it was my fault and just as Foreverdad said, she'll say that she'll do what's best for the kids and will fight for them, it casts her as the "all good" parent "rescuing" the kids from the "all bad" parent, it's unrealistic because it's not balanced, it's that validation that she constantly seeks that Foreverday pointed out, she doesn't know how many things that I catch because of her dysfunctional behavior. That being said, you're right to not believe that anymore, the previous guy was eventually devalued like you, unless you've talked to him and you're getting your impressions of him first hand.

Hi ForMySon,

Welcome and hello  :)

It's great that you have a lawyer you respect, and that she comes highly recommended. And same for the DNA test. I'm so sorry you haven't been able to spend as much time with your son as you would like.  That's hard.

You may want to read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy. A lot of the book will be relevant whether you are married or not, especially with a child involved.

Another thing is to document everything -- how much time you spend with your son, every request she makes that you take care of him, any appointments you take him to, your requests to spend time with him. Like FD mentioned, keep all texts, emails, anything to disprove false allegations that you were her abuser.

Her anxiety around separation stress from the baby is likely to be intense (as indicated by her fears about kidnapping). She'll experience separation from her son as fear of abandonment and it will trigger unbearable anxiety. That's often what people with BPD are doing -- they are trying to get relief from the anxiety by doing desperate things (that they often believe, contrary to facts).

Your L probably will instruct you on whether to insist on time with your son, or whether to let things run their course in court.

Do you have to establish paternity legally first before having a custody hearing?

You need to document everything you can. Find out from your attorney what things are most important and what things will help in your county. There are variations. Always focus on what is best for your child and frame everything that way.
MY story started in 2007. Went to court early 2008 and the judge said out loud that it was his opinion that mom's are better at raising small children than dad's are. I was an EOW dad at the start. Today I have 50/50 legally but see our boys more than that.

To piggyback on what david said about documentation, use email to communicate.  It slows down the interaction so you can provide a more thoughtful response not an emotional knee-jerk reaction.  It gives you time to decide if you even need to respond at all... .if it's all ForMySon bashing and what a bad dad you are ignore it, don't take the bait. (Don't JADE... .Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain... .it will only lead you into an argument that goes no where)  Only respond if it's about your son and when you do create a BIFF response (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm).  Email will also give you an easy way to document your interactions.  You can show that you have requested time with your son and are refused for example.

I know how hard and frustrating it is to go through a custody battle one thing my SO learned that I will pass on is to keep your anger a frustration under wraps around anyone involved in your case.  Vent here, vent to a trusted friend but don't vent around your son, or when talking with a custody evaluator, daycare provider or the receptionist at the Pediatrician office etc.

Keep fighting for your son he deserves to have his dad in his life.

Panda39

I only communicate through email. In fact, I had it put in our court order in 2009. I used to get 40 to 50 emails a month. Most attacked me in some way. Back then I used to defend myself. Eventually, with the help of a therapist and this site, I realized things were not going to change if I continued responding. I stopped defending myself and focused on our boys only. Over time the emails attacking me lessened. I still get some but maybe 2 a month. That is a major improvement. I also learned that I can use email only communication and everything works fine. If there were a true emergency things would be different. Ex tried the emergency strategy years back. The boys were only 4 and 8 so I did get involved. Usually, as in most of the time, things backfired and nothing positive occurred. As our boys got older I realized they could tell if it was an emergency or not and I was able to determine my best course of action. The youngest was around 10 by then so you have some time for that to happen. It does get better.

Thanks everyone. It means a lot to have so many people understand where i am. It's sometimes hard to even explain the level of dysfunction and abuse that tiny woman put me through. It was all very real.

I have text messages, Facebook conversations, and i should have gotten a phone call recorder sooner. I have plenty of documentation about everything. I have been extra vigilant now that he is being kept from me.

I do have to establish paternity. I tried this over a year ago. I paid for the DNA test in order to do just that. That was continuously deflected.

As for conversation, i have gotten my own phone plan. I leave the phone that i communicate with her at home, and use it like email to avoid the drama. I find that constant communication feeds the beast.

I'm sure this path is the right one. It's just extremely difficult especially without my son. It's hateful the way she uses him. I see what you guys are talking about and using him for the validation. I haven't been able to figure out the constant connection that she seems to needs from him, and that explains it further.

Contact with the children at first is, sadly, too often very limited.  I didn't see my son at all for a month before I realized I had to file in court.  We had already been in family court but the temp orders had been dismissed with the magistrate saying not to return unless it was for more permanent filings.  Well, after filing it took another two months to get the initial hearing.  So it was 3 months in all I didn't see or hear from our preschooler.  Yes she didn't even let me talk to him by phone.  When the same magistrate confirmed it from her, he said "I'll fix that" and merely made another temp order with similar terms as before.  No consequences for mother, not even wagging a finger at her, no make up time for dad.  Oh, and she said she had to be out of town with son and wanted my reunion weekend delayed from Friday evening until Saturday evening.  Granted.

Try to get as much ordered parenting time as possible from the first.  It is an uphill struggle for mother fathers and you just can't afford to sit in the background.  If she claims you're not safe with the child or she needs more than the usual time with the child, present evidence otherwise or require her to prove it.  Hers will be highly emotional claims.  Remind the court that you were with her for some 3 years and this coming out now is sour grapes or 'unsubstantiated claims' solely to keep control and hence block your parenting.

However, if she is claiming to be a victim or target then the court might order evaluations.  Very important, try to get the court to order (psych) evaluations of BOTH parents and results released to court and BOTH lawyers.  It will be inclined just to do them for you the accused but it is important to have both examined.  They ought to confirm you're just fine as a father.

At some later point you may need a more in depth evaluation, usually called a custody evaluation.  For that you need to be especially careful that you get an experienced and unbiased evaluator, not a novice or one easily gullible.

I think this is the strategy that she will go with. I have been asking every two days about working out child support and custody with her, and she just refuses saying that she doesn't feel safe in that discussion. It's just an easy way to continue to block access to my son. There is nothing that she has to be concerned with when it comes to me being able to care for him.

I have paid for the lawyer, and I have my next meeting with her Wednesday night. I'm hoping that I will be able to go over strategies with her, and tell her what I know of the situation that we are about to get into. I know she is well versed in dealing with situations like these, and I just have to discuss the options. I think that my focus is going to be on my son. I'm not going to play the blame games that I know will come from her side. I will use what I have in my arsenal to defend my behaviors, but I don't think it's going to be viable to fight this battle in her way.

I'm so scared of this process as I have no idea what is going to come of all of this. I really was home with my son every night, and I did 50% of the work with him. The family was almost always together when one of us wasn't at work.

I miss my son, and that has been the hardest thing for me. I know what my counselor tells me, and she thinks that by the time he is 11 he will know where he wants to live.

Age 11?  That's nearly a decade from now.  Now is the time to establish yourself as involved a father as you can be.  The early years are the most formative years.

Here's an example about me.  I took Spanish in high school, 2 years.  I was a B student but then when we were in the second half of the second year we concentrated on conjugating verbs.  I could see patterns easily, that's what I always did well in Spelling, also got the school medal for Geometry.  Well, I was the best of 2 classes that semester, got an A.  I recall one test had us conjugating verbs, 100% would have been 202 points.  I got 201.5 points, missed an accent mark, all the kids grumbled because our teacher graded on a curve where the highest score was what everyone else was compared too.  However, I was never able to chit-chat in Spanish despite years in a Spanish congregation, Hispanic friends and Hispanic wife.  Why?  I didn't learn Spanish young enough.  Many brain experts say you learn languages best when young, generally before age 9 or 10.  I did learn Spanish as a teenager, in time I was able to give hour long Bible discourses at ease as an adult, but I still didn't feel comfortable just chatting and using idioms.  For that reason, your son needs as good a start in his early childhood, a lot of wonderful opportunities will be lost, and some parental alienation may have taken root, if we hang our expectation later on the preteen years.

Yes, you may not get all you want in these early years.  But don't fool yourself by thinking age 11 is enough.  That can be your last gasp alternative but there is so much more you can do in the next few years with strategies, documentation, solid legal advice and experienced peer support.

I understand what you are saying ForeverDad. That is my hope, and my son's best outcome is to spend as much time with me as possible.

I have started to calm down after ridding my life of the drama that was associated to that toxic relationship. For the first time in a couple of years I am able to use reason and logic in my own life. I see the path that I need to travel for my kiddo. To help him grow and learn to regulate himself in healthy and positive ways. I get what you are saying about waiting too long. I was just posting what I viewed to be my worst case scenario timeline.

I will fight until the end to have at least 50% and tie breaker status. I will know more Wednesday after the lawyer and I sit down for consultation.

So she decided that I am she doesn't feel safe enough to start the process of talking about child support and custody. This is the only message that I have received from her in a week. Then last night I go home to see that she has asked me to pay the comcast bill so that the internet and tv would start working at her house again. I had originally told her that all of the bills that were in my name comcast, water, and trash were to be out of my name by last Thursday. Instead of calling to setup service for herself she called and paid the past due portion of my bill! I don't want to leave my son without water, trash, and to some extent internet and cable, but I'm unsure how to respond in a way that sounds best for Colin.

What I have thought about is: "I know that it must be difficult to be without cable. The bills were supposed to have been changed over to your name this past Thursday. I will give one more week, and Thursday 4/6 will be the last day to have the services in your name."

Is that a good, level headed response to this situation?

It might be a good idea to run this by your L since you are meeting soon. In general, paying for her stuff this early in your case can go two ways.

For example, the courts may think you are capable of paying, so why not continue. Or, a judge may think she is so entitled that courts need to intervene in your favor.

For Internet/TV, you can probably cut services and it won't impact your case, but that's something to discuss with your L.

On a separate note, the email you plan to write is good and has some of the elements you want.

Strategically, you have a few options:

1. No response -- you've already warned her. Cut services.
2. Respond with: "Per my email dated month/day/year, I will be cutting services. As of month/day, these services will be cut. Please arrange to activate your own account so there is no break is service."
3. Continue to pay.

It looks like you are including a validating sentence in your email.

Validation when she is likely very emotionally aroused and maybe dysregulated probably won't have much affect, especially when there is a hard boundary on the table (cutting services).

"The bills were supposed to have been changed over to your name this past Thursday" is a bit accusatory, and with her being extremely hypersensitive, this is the part of the email she will likely lock onto. Nothing else will register.

Sometimes it's best to just say, in the most neutral way, what actions will happen, and when. One sentence or two max, if you can.

Run it by your attorney since things are done differently depending on the county.

Stating facts and not trying to explain works best for me. I learned that after trying everything else. You do need to figure out what works best for you.

When I explained I would get a reply that was all over the place. Eventually I saw that ex was reading into things and making conclusions based on what she was thinking or feeling at the time. Stating facts helps minimize all the ramblings in her head.

This was one of the points that I brought up with my L. She told me to go ahead and to have the services taken out of my name, and that if BPDx couldn't get things put into her name that s2 shouldn't stay there. I have been nice, and I have given an extra week hoping that these things would get taken care of. We were never married so division of household bills should never come up in our case. This case will just be about paternity, custody, and child support.

L&L - I like the way that you broke it out into 3 distinct ways to handle.
1) No response - cut services - This is the direction that I am leaning. There is no need to open dialog with her about this as my plan was stated. Not my fault she didn't heed the warning.
2) Respond - This is going to cause some form of extinction burst I feel. She isn't getting her way. There is no need to subject myself to this.
3)Continue to pay - This isn't an option. I can't continue to pay and fight for my child. Those funds are needed for the road ahead.

David - This is what I am trying to learn. I want to be able to look past all of the bad things that have happened. I have realized that the relationship is over, and trying to put effort into it is pointless. I'm trying to only make contact when I NEED to which is very hard as I want to be with my son. My therapist gets on me about being vague, and I know it's an issue currently yet it was how I handled damage control in my house. It seemed that speaking vaguely made it so that every statement couldn't be turned into a "lie".

The more I stay removed the healthier and more clear minded I become.

Amen to that  :)

And like david said, try to limit your responses to facts, things that will happen. The more you write, the bigger the target, and that means more conflict.

"On day/date the services will no longer work. To continue services, please activate an account in your name."

It is not cruel to expect her to handle her own Internet services 

They used to say on this site that ,"negative engagement is still engagement." Over the years that is one thing that has stuck in my head. It has taken a deeper and deeper meaning.

In the beginning I would get a nasty email accusing me of xyz. I replied by defending myself. This would go back and forth with me trying to explain something again because I thought I wasn't being clear. I was blaming myself.

I then started deciding which to reply to and which to ignore. The ones I replied to led to the same conclusion of back and forth with no resolution.

I then started stating facts and holding myself back from replying. I realized I said what I was going to do and wasn't changing my mind. I wasn't being stubborn. Example, ex would ask me what time I was picking the boys up. Say she would say something like , "The boys will be available for pick up from 8 am until 10 am. Let me know what time you will pick them up ?" My reply would be, "I will pick the boys up at 8:30 am." She would then reply , "That is too early and you should pick them up at 10 am." I would not reply. She gave me the choice and I made a choice.

That started in 2008 and went through until present day. I evolved.

Things have changed and this example is how things work now. S13 has excema. I noticed last Thursday that he had two patches on his back after his shower. I put his prescription cream on them and later sent an email to ex ," S13 has two patches of excema on his back and needs help putting on the cream." He was with his mom for the weekend so I thought she would need to know. Also, since he is 13 he is washing himself and dressing himself without his mom's help so she would probably not notice. It was just chance that I saw it. Ex did not reply. I talked to S13 and told him to make sure his mom helps him with the cream and that I sent her an email to let her know. Well, I picked him up on Monday after school. He tells me that mom made a big deal about putting his cream on his back. It was a longer story and I just listened. He finishes with ," and mom said to make sure you tell your dad that he needs to put cream on your back when you see him." S13 said nothing that he knew I emailed her. The conversation then went in the direction of why does mom lie so much all the time. You can never believe anything she ever says. I listened and validated. I had no good answer but validation at that point was my best option. Back in 2008 I probably would have sent an email to ex telling her what happened and asking her why she did such a thing. That would have been upsetting to her and she probably would have done something to S13 in retaliation. I would then probably have gotten an email a few days later finding something wrong with me and we would have gone round and round with that. S13 would not talk to me as openly because he would realize there were negative consequences for that. No one would win.

So I responded to the questions about the account. My reply:

I know it must be frustrating to be without cable service. I will call the company tomorrow as they were closed tonight, and I will see what my options are for removing my name from the service. The water and trash will be disconnected from my name on 4/4.

To which I received the instant response:

I need more time and would like to think you don't want a child to go without.

That statement makes me want to engage in the argument with her. What she said isn't acceptable to how I really feel. I want to respond that if you can't get those services in your name maybe my son shouldn't be living with you. I know that's an emotional response, and I'm not going to send that. It's just going to lead down the rabbit hole.

It makes me happy that I finished filing the paperwork with the lawyer this evening. That the court date is no more than 6 and a half weeks out. I feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now part of me hoping that it isn't a train.

I don't think I would respond to that. You said what you are going to do.
I don't think cable is that crucial for a 2.5 year old. I remember how things like that would upset me too. Even when I stopped responding it still bothered me. I realized it was upsetting me and nothing I said to my ex was going to change what she did. In fact, the more upset I was, and let her see it, the worst things got. Not reacting worked the best for me. It is difficult in the beginning.

I would read this as her projecting something onto you that predates your relationship, some kind of unfinished business with people who didn't show up and parent her properly.

In this story, she is the child, you are the parent. She wants you to take care of things, to take care of her. On her terms.  

There is no point in engaging with her because this is her play, her script, her roles. You are simply the latest to be cast in a role that she assigned.

Even if you protest the role she assigns you, or try to change the script she wants you to follow, you are still part of the drama.

If ever in doubt, answer less or don't answer at all.

Come vent here and say what you want to say.

We are good listeners for this stuff.  *)

Thank you for helping to break that down a little bit. It's sometimes hard having just started to clear the FOG from my life. I can't look at things how I used to yet. I know before I met her that I would have seen that for exactly what it was. I recognized it last night even still in the FOG some, and I haven't been able to keep the anxiousness from her responses at bay. I'm working hard for that goal though. I will also talk to my counselor about this next Thursday when I see her again to see if we can work on that anxious feeling when dealing with the BPDex.

My L also told me last night that I should do what I can to see my son. In order to do that I will have to start taking time from work to see him at daycare. It would only be able to be for about an hour or so at a time 2 days a week, but I don't have any other choices. I hope that she hasn't told daycare anything inappropriate, and I will be able to see him. I don't think there is much she can do the agreement that was submitted to daycare lists me as the father so I don't know what it would take to get that changed.

That's a great idea to see him at daycare. I hope you get to see him soon  :)

If she is unable or unwilling to listen to reason, there there is no wisdom in trying to explain things to her.  If you can, simply state the situation and the reasonable remedy you chose.  This comes under the Boundary category.  State your boundary, don't request it, that can enable her to say No.  One reason you may decide to be a bit more verbose is so that you sound reasonable to the professionals who may have to get involved later on.  You want the judge, evaluators and others hearing you very reasonable even while being brief and firm for your boundaries.

Thank you all for helping me to see that I'm not alone in thinking that the comments she makes are unreasonable. After not responding to the last message I received this message (and I will try and lay out my reality of the situations as well)

So, this week I have discovered that you didn't pay any daycare money (like you claimed you did), nor any bills in your name (trash, water, and cable). A child (s2's name here) is living in the home and is going without due to this. You have also been disrespectful and inappropriate by not working with the child's mother to ensure the child does not go without.

A couple of things that I would like to say on this, and I would also like to know if there is anything worth saying to this.
     1) Currently all bills in my name are continuing service at the residence. He is not going without any services. I'm      
          really very torn between anger and confusion about this as cable is not a necessity but a want and her main focal
          point.
     2) The bills were supposed to have been switched out of my name on 3/23 this has been extended until 4/4. I  
          purposefully haven't paid some of them, because I will be using the deposit on the utilities to pay for the utilities. I
          don't think I need to explain this decision to her. They are my bills to pay as I see fit.
     3) I have a cashed check that I gave to daycare that proves that I actually did pay daycare on my week.
     4) Instead of getting the bills switched into her name she has just paid my bills. (Why?)
     5) That last statement eats at me, because he wouldn't have to do without if he was with me. It's not on me to       
          continue to provide her services. I feel that I have been reasonable in working with her in getting the bills
          switched out of my name.

So this was where I always tended to fall apart during the times of strife in the relationship, and we can see above where I still felt to come here and justify myself. This is where I would start to JADE with her in the relationship. I don't feel like this message even needs a response at this point. I have told her what I am going to do so she can accept it or not. The things I could say wouldn't be received in proper context, not would they benefit my current situation. Yet here I am still torn up about the message. How do I get past the FOG of responding to this woman? I know that it will take more time to become able to weather the storm. My foundation has been bombed repeatedly over the years, and now I'm rebuilding that foundation. Yet, I still feel like there is more that I can do to get past all of this.

Hi ForMySon,

Good for you to pause and not shoot off a knee-jerk response to her communication! You're getting the hang of this  |iiii

My SO also got the "you're a bad dad" FOG blown his way.  You need to stop believing it.  Is your son going to starve, be out on the street, have no clothes because the cable is being shut off?  This is about your stbxw wanting cable for herself and trying to get something for nothing. Your son's well being is not tied to cable TV!

You know you paid daycare and have documentation... .no need to respond to that... .it's bait... .don't walk into the JADE/Circular Argument Trap.

I agree with what has already been said about the utilities you informed her of the change gave her time to switch them over... .completely reasonable... .just stick with your plan.  Be prepared for more bashing you over the head with your own child... .FOG... .but stick with the boundary. If you back down and continue to pay the bills indefinitely she will learn that using FOG in the form of your son works and she will continue to repeat the strategy to get anything and everything she wants. Take your name off the utilities



Besides being FOG the above could also be projection... projecting her feelings about herself on to you.

Here's what happens if we switch the pronouns around... .

A child (s2's name here) is living in the home and is going without due to this. I have also been disrespectful and inappropriate by not working with the child's father to ensure the child does not go without.

I know the urge to JADE is strong it is a natural response when you are under attack but it really goes no where with someone with BPD it just turns into the drama they want, the engagement they want (negative engagement is still engagment), and a circular argument that can go on for an eternity if you let it.

Hang in there,
Panda39

I agree Panda. Maybe that's why it upsets me so much. It isn't me that has the issue with trying to work together. I really have tried everything in my power to work with this woman. It just doesn't ever happen.

I do feel like I need to pay her back for the bills that she has "paid" instead of getting switched over. This hasn't been asked, but it is something that I feel responsible for. What would be the best way to pay her back for these bills? Should I write her a check? Do a transfer to her account from the account I can do that with? Should I make them individual so that the amounts reflect the bills that she paid in my name?

Why didn't she just get the bills transferred into her name?

If you feel you need to pay her back I would do the account transfer so you have a record of the transaction.  Print a copy of the transaction information and amount and keep it with copies of the bills for which you are paying her back.  After you've done the transaction send her an email notifying her of what you did... .document, document, document.  I wouldn't trust a check to not "get lost".



Because by not doing so keeps you engaged with her.  Remember fear of abandonment is at the heart of BPD she is doing everything she can to keep you around and involved with her.

Panda39

PS  I can't remember if anyone suggested the book Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy & Randi Kreger you might want to check it out, my SO found it helpful during his divorce.

Be gentle with yourself  :) You are staying afloat in choppy seas -- few things are more stressful than custody battles with a high-conflict ex.

Your son is young, you haven't seen him, and his mom has an untreated mental illness. The stress of finances and uncertainty about the legal process is hanging over your head. And like you said, there is history here with her, and she has eroded your confidence.

It's hard to concentrate when there is this kind of stress, and for many of us, it's hard to problem solve when our emotions are on tilt. This is the time to lean on friends, support groups like this, family, therapists, whatever it takes until the stress dials down a little and you can do this stuff on autopilot more or less.

High conflict custody battles breed a lot of insecurity because there is so much uncertainty (not to mention cost), and the fear about your son's future is well placed.

About the stress: I can't say enough about having a mindfulness practice, if you are inclined. When I was most broke, I used a free app on my phone (Insight Timer) and began practicing with guided meditations. Jack Kornfield, Jon Kabat-Zinn, Tara Brach, there are others who became familiar voices when my stress levels were through the roof and even now, when things are relatively calm.

It can make it easier when you are trying to change deeply ingrained habits.

The common thread of the BPD being "all over the board" is something I know all too well. ForMySon you should know that the advice you are getting is dead-on; it's not about the money or "going without" for your child. It's all about trying to control you. My uxBPD lives in a $500K house, has luxury cars, insists on having my kids attend private schools, travels in a new mercedes winnebago, and I still get nasty-grams about needing to pay for things like Yearbooks, or (I'm not making this up) the purchase of Aloe from Walgreens in case the kids get sunburned. She put a calligraphy pen on the shared expenses sheet.

My experience is that is simply doesn't matter what the situation is, or the specific example the BPD uses to try to assert control. There will ALWAYS be something. So figuring out how to set boundaries and not engage really seems to be the only way to survive.

For your amusement, these are some excerpts of interactions I've had in the last week with my ex:

Email sent to me and my lawyer from ex: "I have not yet decided about the direct course of action for child support; I am deeply concerned about <my> retaliation on the children if I make this court request... .My only concern is for the safety, well-being and stable upbringing of the children."

Texts yesterday:
ex: "shorts I bought <child> for track were not in the bag with her track uniform top.  Please verify I can stop to pick them up from your front porch today or tomorrow after school."
me: "i do not see any track shorts at my house"
ex: "Let me look again when I get home through all the clothes the kids had in bags. <Child> was wearing the shorts at the meet last weekend and seemed to like them.  The shorts are blue but have logo written on the front lower corner.  I appreciate you looking for them for <child>.

So-- I am a monster that will abuse my children if she decides to unilaterally demand child support despite our SPP saying neither party will do so (and she already lives a rock star lifestyle). But I am also appreciated for looking for shorts for my child, despite knowing they were in the transition clothes bag all along. I believe the texting was just her attempt to reach out and try to connect with me-- the entire situation is unnecessary as the child has plenty of other shorts.

What I'm saying is: be prepared for the ride, because it is just starting.

It may be negative engagement, something to argue about.  If you're out of her life and only dealing with matters related to your child, that leaves her feeling not in control.  She has to have someone to idolize (at the start of a relationship) or abuse/accuse (at the end of a relationship).  Her neediness drives her to actions that don't make common sense.  You can't reason with someone who isn't reasoning.  That's what firm boundaries, well thought out, are so crucial.

Another thought - and probably don't explain this to her - is that if it goes to a court to decide and she earns less than you then you may be ordered to pay child support.  CS is for the child and the expenses the child may incur but the reality is it is a lump sum of money handed to the parent and to a large extent that parent gets to decide how to use it.

Right now I'm guessing there are no orders and so you can properly decide not to pay certain bills that have nothing to do with parenting.  The worst she can do is fuss and you just document it.  But be forewarned, court is not likely to come down on her hard for demanding cable or internet.  It knows separations are often fraught with high emotions and it will probably assume everything will all calm down once the parents have had time to adjust to post-relationship life.  You know differently, she has core issues that won't resolve themselves and if she is the sort that things have to be resolved in court then it may take repeated returns to court for the court to believe you that she is still a problem parent.

Her emotions can too.

BPD is about mood lability that can be hard for us to fathom. Part of this goes hand in hand with splitting -- she may be on a tear and totally flooded with powerful emotions, one minute hating (splitting black) and the next wanting to connect (splitting white). For pwBPD, these two states don't tend to co-exist, which is probably as confusing to them as it is to us.

Sometimes, people with BPD really do not have recollection of what was said or done or thought during times of emotional dysregulation. There is instead a shame hangover, covered up with defense mechanisms to try and distract from the trail of mess.

This is not an excuse, it's an explanation.

Either way, boundaries for the win.  *)

Thanks for recommending splitting. I will read it again in the next week. It was very enlightening, and actually helped me calm down and think about my case. I think that my biggest concern moving forward was the unpredictable vindictiveness that I've seen multiple times. I know there are going to be a lot of allegations moving forward, and I now know how to best approach this situation.

One of the big things that I constantly tried to do during individual counseling, even during the relationship, was to work on boundaries and maintaining them appropriately. I knew that during my relationship they had all but been eaten away. I see it even now when trying to work out bills with my ex.

I know all of this will get easier in the long run. It's just hard to be patient not knowing how my son is truly doing. I know how i was doing when there, and i find it hard to fathom that he wouldn't eventually end up in the same situation.

I keep thinking back to a point in our relationship, and i remember i was trying to be able to Kayak more with friends (i vey rarely was ever able to do anything without her). I remember part of my reasoning led to the question are you going to let our son play with friends outside when he gets older? She said she didn't know. That struck me as odd. This question has haunted me for almost 2 years now. I think i really knew at that point what life for my son was going to be like. For both of us. I justified her behaviors by thinking that if it wasn't me s2 would just witness it happening to someone else, and at least i would be there to protect and shield him from that. I should have known from the response to my question that i couldn't protect him while still being there. I now know that i have to do what i can to show my son healthy. That's the only way he'll know it.

My work has agreed to my new schedule so that i can get some son time two times a week. I feel really supported by them i this endeavor. I wonder how long I'll be able to visit him at daycare until she throws a monkey wrench in that plan.

I lost one daycare, she had originally used that one but one time she came in and evidently demanded to pick him up early outside the written exchange times.  They "withdrew services".

Another daycare I used called the police on her for following their school shuttle and making a scene in their workplace.  The director actually went to the court house and filed an harassment case but withdrew it the next Monday when told it was a police matter next time.

After years of disparagement and about 5 years after the divorce, I presented recordings to the court which resulted in the magistrate multiple times writing she was disparaging me in front of our son.  By then he was 11, kind of late IMO.  She testified that was her voice but she didn't remember any of it.  Also, she disagreed with the GAL's statements and simultaneously said she didn't remember.  After 2 years of divorce proceedings and 5 years post-divorce, lawyers and court finally addressed those behaviors.

Lots of times my Ex would deny, "I didn't say that."  She clearly remembered anything she saw as my fault, but never remembered anything making her look bad.  At some level she had to know because she was able to weave her stories so well.  I never tried too hard to figure out whether she really remembered or not, I concluded it would be wasted time, energy and effort.

If she feels more desperate about losing ground, what does your gut say about how this will play out?

Has she made any false allegations before?

I feel like she's going to do whatever she can in order to make it the most difficult to see s2. I don't know how it will actually play out. She could do anything from miss work everyday to switch daycare. I would like to think that since its technically supervised there's no illegal actions on my behalf.

Because I worked a regular schedule, my ex claimed she "worked from home" and she was trying to sabotage my parenting time, I considered my scheduled time with my child was at risk.  She had already tried to take over the after school time.  Her claim was that I was at work and so mother was better than a day care and him playing with other kids.

In our final decree settlement she didn't want my aged parents to care in place of me.  They were quite old and father already in a nursing home.  So I agreed to exclude grandparents from care.  (She had a mother she couldn't stand and a father she had seen a few times as a teen, I didn't see them as likely to try to parent.)  However, the clause I wanted was that my time was my time and her time was her time, neither of us could grab the other's time.  So how to handle her trying to take over after school time before I was able to leave work and pick him up?  My clause stated that daycare had the same status as school.  There is no clash about school times, it is not seen as impacting who gets parenting time.  No one says "I have to give up my time to my ex because there is (or isn't) school that day."  I wanted the same for daycare, just because I was not present did not mean ex could swoop in and take over.  Maybe that strategy wouldn't work for some members here, but it was what I needed to address her expected takeover attempts.  Sure enough, she tried but the order withstood those times.  Police were called but the clause in my final decree protected my parenting time.

A good thing to do is write down what problems you are having and write down a solution that doesn't negatively affect either parent. Make sure all these things are addressed if/when you go to court. This way you don't forget something.
Any anticipated issues you can also address in court. The judge agreed with all my recommendations except one and copied them exactly as I wrote them. They were very specific. We had a court ordered parent coordinator and she even pointed out that our order didn't sound like judge abc. She said they were very specific and that judge usually wrote things very generally. That would not have worked in this situation because ex would always interpreted things however it pleased her. Our order locked things in with no wiggle room except, "Any changes are to be done through an email exchange. Both parents must explicitly agree in their respective email exchange. Once an agreement is reached it can not be changed unless another email exchange does so." That is not exactly how it is written but it gets to the point. I also make sure when either of us uses this point that I make sure I say that this is a one time occurrence and not to be considered a permanent change.

If it's your L who is advising you to see S2 during daycare, then you're probably good to go!

Are you concerned about her smearing you to daycare?

Would you feel comfortable telling them that you and S2's mom are unfortunately in a high-conflict custody battle, and that you are visiting during daycare hours to avoid engaging mom directly, at your lawyer's advice.

If you are concerned that she will make false allegations, it might not hurt to address that up front, altho I know it can be uncomfortable.

When my ex made false allegations, no matter how small, I shone light on them whenever possible. He accused me of not including him in our son's 504/IEP process, so I emailed the school and cc'd N/BPDx. "Please be sure to include Mr. N/BPDx on all emails about any meetings. For the time being, I prefer to meet separately and focus on moving forward and finding solutions for our son's academic progress. However, it is important that Mr. N/BPDx is included on all emails and given the opportunity to attend a parallel meeting that he sets up to discuss his questions and concerns about the process."

Having a BPD co parent can teach you a lot! Outsiders like teachers, doctors, etc. do not typically know how to handle high-conflict domestic issues. Being able to propose solutions when things are heated can go a long way toward convincing people you are not the troublemaker in these situations.

"S2's mom is having a hard time over the paternity of our son, and I understand this conflict may spill over into your daycare. Please know that we are working through this in the family court system, and that I am following my lawyer's counsel. If you have any questions or concerns, please call and talk to me directly. I am also happy to have my lawyer send a letter if that would make you more comfortable. I want what is best for S2 and I know you do too."

I have a calendar that I document everything on currently. I like it because it is day by day. It tells of all of the interactions that I am allowed to have with my son. It has detailed everything that has happened since two weeks before I left. I have a journal that I kept off and on over the course of two years (I especially wrote in this when things were at their worst.)

As far as daycare I will let them know tonight what is going on. I didn't want to involve too many people until I was sure that I had paperwork filed with the court as I didn't want to show my hand. Well, I received my copy of the paperwork in the mail yesterday so I know that hers should be coming in the next couple of days.

6 weeks is going to be a heck of a wait to be able to have my son come and stay with me for the night. I'm so excited for that day, and I'm so scared of going to court (and being perceived by my ex as blacker than black) and fighting for custody of him at the same time. I really do believe that she thinks she is going to have him 100% of the time, get 75% of my paycheck, and I'll never get to see him (how I would like to live in her fantasy land sometime). 

Every once in a while I think of how it would be easier to be with my child if I just put up with all of that BS. I'm so far removed from the situation now though that I can see that it will never work. So until I can get to the point where I'm able to have my child without her I will be putting one foot in front of the other, lots of self-care (whitewater kayaking whenever I can), my dog, friends, family, therapist, lawyer, and whatever else it takes to make it to the start line 6 weeks from now.

Thanks everyone for your support. I will be back regularly to keep you updated on my progress.

Going to court was very intimidating for me in the beginning. It's like anything else. Once you experience it a few times it is easier to deal with.
I would bring everything you have with you for court. In addition, make a single piece of paper explaining everything you can as simply as possible.
I went to court for more time. I had copies of our youngest son's homework for three years. It was a big pile. I had one piece of paper on the top explaining the pile. It showed the total number of hw's and then the number done when he was with me and the number when with his mom. He did over 95% of his hw when with me even though his mom had majority of time during the school year. The courts need three of everything so I had three of everything. My attorney gave the judge his pile and opposing counsel their pile. The judge looked at the top sheet and asked ex if it was true. Ex had a choice to make. Agree, which she did, and the top piece of paper was introduced as evidence. Documented (paper) evidence holds more weight than verbal testimony. That is an important point. Courts and attorneys don't like it because it slows things down. However, judges must make their decision based on the evidence and paper evidence holds more sway than verbal testimony. If ex disagreed that would mean we would have to go through each paper to verify the top sheet. Since she knew I was truthful she really had no choice but to agree.
How much time you spent with your son prior to the separation and how much time after is important. Showing through emails, texts, etc how you were being denied time is also important. The only thing she can bring up is examples of you being abusive towards your son to try to restrict your access. She may say things but that should need to be proved. If that is the direction she goes then you could ask the courts for a therapist or someone recognized by the courts to observe you interactions with your son. You could make this a temp thing until the court is satisfied with the results. I wouldn't bring any of that up unless you need to. If it doesn't come up then forget about it.
Have a proposal for what you want. Ask for more and settle for what you think is best. That way both parties win in court. How you do that will depend on the county you are in and how things are done there.

An important point to always remember is that if you're not seen by the court or the evaluators or other involved professionals as someone dangerous to your children then there is absolutely no reason for you not to get a 'normal' parenting schedule.  Yes, she will be sobbing and making horrendous emotional claims but they'll be unsubstantiated.  Remember, we're not talking about you fed a kid pancakes when you should have cooked eggs and bacon, that's not neglect.  Court deals with whether it is substantive child abuse, child endangerment or child neglect.  If the claims don't rise to the level of being actionable or aren't substantiated then the court or evaluators need to discount those claims.  Unfortunately, with all the flowing tears and wails the court can be swayed to move much slower to a better schedule.  Their emotional response to her will be to err on the side of extreme caution.  That is what you need to watch out for and ensure doesn't happen.  Her emphatic tales of smoke everywhere doesn't mean there is any fire.

So, if the court says it wants some additional time for evaluations, that's okay.  Meanwhile, try to get a better interim order.  But if it has already concluded there is no abuse or risk then there is every reason to proceed promptly to a normal schedule.  The child will not be upset to resume frequent visits, after all, before the current problems you had seen your child daily.  Unfortunately for dads, a 'normal' parenting schedule too often is as non-primary dad with alternate weekends (anywhere from 36 to 72 hours) and a few shorter visits in between.

Do the best you can.  There's no Pass or Fail, of course.  Be seen as the reasonable parent presenting solutions but also firm for what is right.  Don't let your lawyer pooh pooh it away saying, ":)on't worry, just sit quietly, we'll fix it later."  I was timid in court and the issues clearly visible from Day One weren't addressed until the Final Divorce Decree some 2 years later.

I became an EOW dad in 2008. It took going back to court to get more time. Eventually I got a court order that gives 50/50. I now have the boys more than that because ex gives me more time. Once I got to 50/50 the wind went out of ex's sail since in her mind she lost.
If I had to do it over I would have found a better attorney from the start. I didn't know what to look for so I thought the one I had was good. I learned to be more proactive/assertive and then I found a good attorney. I didn't know what to ask for and I figured the courts would do the right thing in the beginning too. Learning from my mistakes cost me money. Once I learned what I needed to learn I got better and things actually started to cost less too since I knew what I had to do and what my attorney needed from me.
I had some of the same experiences other dads have had. Courts favor the mom but not always. When I became a problem solver and stopped trying to defend myself from all the accusations I started "winning" more in court. 

The alligator tears, and the court believing them are something that I'm really concerned about. The Splitting book helped me realize to just be assertive in the face of that adversity. Realize them for what they are fabrications of a distorted reality. Some world that i know far too well to step foot into again.

I think after really exploring the hurt with a good friend, sitting down with my counselor and opening up, and having to get the process started with the lawyer to realize that in order to win this I have to be steady, reasonable, and put my son first.

Who i got to see today. It felt so good to see him and not have to fight to do it. I also sat down with the director of the daycare and told her what was going on. I told her that there could be spill over into her establishment, and i was sorry if there was. She agreed that what I'm having to go through to see him is a bit ridiculous. I also discussed getting paperwork and a good faith document from them about my parenting. She agreed. She also told me there was nothing they could do to stop me from getting him. Hmmmm... .Have to ponder that one. Maybe I'm just always willing to meet at the police station in 15 minutes. Hmmmm... .

Step, step, step.

Years ago, back in early 2006, we were between orders.  The initial temp orders for protection had been dismissed and we were told not to come back except with long term type of cases which I understood to be divorce.  Well, immediately my separated spouse demanded I agree to supervised visits.  Well, since CPS and the court had "no concerns" about me and I had lived with an unrestricted alternate weekend temp order for a few months, I told her there was no basis for supervised.  She then walked out of court and I didn't see my preschooler for months, three actually.  Though I was paying for her phone, she never allowed a call to go through to him.  About a month later I hired a divorce attorney and filed for divorce.  It took nearly two months waiting for a court date.

During those 3 months I recall calling my local police for them to accompany me to go see my son.  I was asked if I had a court order.  I said, No.  I was bluntly told they wouldn't help until I had a court order in hand.  But of course if I did go to her door and she called them then they'd come rushing out.  Well, I could tell who they would consider the 'victim' and I didn't want to get arrested so I didn't try.  They explained it this way... .As separated parents we each had equal parental rights to the children but they were undefined.  Only with a written court order in hand would the police step in and try to apply it.

You don't have a court temp order yet for temp custody and temp parenting schedule?  Maybe that's what the daycare director meant, that without a court order then either parent can come and take the child?  (Since they have equal but undefined rights... .)

Well, now it's been brought to a head. I guess she got served her paperwork yesterday. This morning I received a message from her.

I provided daycare with paperwork and until paternity is established through the court and custody is determined by the court you may not see Colin there. They know to call me and police if you do appear. I don't like that it came to this, but I need to protect Colin and myself right now. Have a good day.

I called daycare, because I had discussed with them before this happened what would happen. The daycare director is keeping a record of the events going on. They told me that they would allow me time with my son as to them I am his father, and I have been with him since birth. That to their knowledge there is no reason for them to deny me access as they have an open door policy with parents and there is no court order that states otherwise. They also said that they would allow me time with him before placing the call to her. They were saddened to hear that she is blocking my access.

I also talked to them about not having the fallout from our relationship happening at their business. I told them that I am sorry that this is the only way that I could see my son, and that I am thankful for them for working with me and allowing me to see him there.

I wonder how much further she is willing to go to ramp this stuff up.

Hang in there. You're handling things proactively and being reasonable :)

Likely, she will direct her anger toward the daycare when they do not participate in her nonsense.

And unfortunately, expect her to take your son elsewhere. Altho if daycare is like it is where I live, it can be hard to pivot on short notice.

You may want to ask your L about an ex parte emergency motion -- this would allow you to produce an immediate court document establishing paternity or whatnot until a judge is able to hear the case. It works in different ways depending on where you live.

For example, I was able to get an ex parte motion immediately when (on strong evidence) I was able to demonstrate a reasonable concern that ex was not stable enough to care for our son.

It's basically a way for a judge to act swiftly with the understanding that the full matter will be heard at a later date.

So is she claiming the child is someone else's?  Saying you have to prove you are the father may be a technicality the court requires but as a person may choose to perceive it also implies she might not have been faithful to the relationship.

Of course you have to be careful not to inflame too much, but essentially she's saying you're not the father until proven otherwise.  Does the court care whether she is trying to introduce the possibility of someone else being the father?  Or her insinuating it?  I guess there's no point to using it to weaken others' perception of her claims.

I wonder, if you visit your son at daycare and at some point she is informed and she calls the police, what would the police do?  You have been regularly paying for daycare and you have been regularly visiting him at daycare, perhaps even providing transportation.  You aren't currently trying to remove him.  She only called the police once court papers were filed.  Without a court order yet, what would they do, ask you to stay away?  Tell you to stay away while court is pending or else they would step in?  If so, should you suspend payment to daycare if visits are suspended?

In short, she sees a way to stay in control based on a technicality, getting the court to order or recognize a test is her way, since mothers often start as the default parent if the father isn't on the birth certificate, to keep you appeasing her.

Also, did you use a lab that your court recognizes?  If not, there's a possibility the test may have to be done over.

I just saw LnL's post, she made some realistic comments.  Ex parte is possible, typically it is granted for a week or two until court schedules a hearing for both parents to present their positions.  I would not be surprised that she rushes to make allegations against you in her own ex parte order.  I don't know the legal ins and outs but your lawyer may tell you that you can't file for ex parte until more obstruction occurs than just an email.  Or maybe you can?

I think what she is really saying is that I have all of the power until the court says otherwise. I don't think she can honestly think at this point that I am not the father. I carry his insurance, I have a notarized court accepted DNA test, have paid daycare, was listed on the emergency contact form as the father, and he has my last name. I would like to see her try and claim that though as most of these documents have been around for over a year. It's not like I got results back and didn't share them.

Trying to get an emergency hearing was part of what the lawyer delivered to court, and it was based off of the fact that I have been blocked from seeing my s2 up to this point. I haven't heard anything back from her on this issue though. I did receive all of the paperwork that she sent to the court. So I'm sure it will be very soon that I should be hearing back about the emergency hearing.

As far as the cops are concerned there is nothing that they can do. I'm not concealing or kidnapping my child. I have the DNA test that the state would use as I only wanted to do it once, and boy was it expensive. I called and asked L about my options, and she advised me to even go so far as to pick him up. There is no legal justification for what she is trying to do. There are no orders to say what I can or can't do with s2. The cop did tell her she had "sole" custody though so I'm sure that's why she thinks she is in the right in this. He also said I should try and work together with her until we had a court order.

The control factor was blunt and obvious in her message, and I won't be a party to it. I didn't respond as the thought of having to appease this person to just see my child is ridiculous. I don't expect her to appease me in order to see him. This information will be documented.  

Looks like T and I will have some things to talk about today.

Make copies of the dna test and other pertinent papers. Have them with you whenever you see your son. If the police show up you can show them the papers. It may help. Remember, you don't know what she told the police or anyone else.
If the police show up stay calm and show the proof. Explain what you are dealing with and that you have never been a danger before.
My ex tried to get me evicted from our house. The judge denied it. The next day she showed up with the police. I was literally in the driveway and the police were telling me I had 5 minutes to vacate the premises or they would arrest me. I pulled out the papers from the day before and showed them that the judge did not sign off on it. Ex convinced them a signature was not needed. I called my attorney, explained what was going on, and handed my phone to the police officer. After the police were convinced I was telling the truth ex simply said she was sorry and it was simply a misunderstanding. It took me several more things like this for me to realize she would do anything to get her way.
I also have a small audio recorder and a video recorder with me at all times just in case. My state doesn't allow it but I have it anyway to protect myself. I get yelled at in court when ex brings it up but that is the only consequence. Protect yourself because when my ex is cornered she will do whatever her feelings tell her.

So, I visited him at daycare, and I didn't have anything bad happen. We had a good time for about 20 minutes. He was very upset when I had to go. He didn't want to let go of me at all. I didn't get the chance to talk to the directors yesterday though so hopefully they will be there next Tuesday when I stop in again.

Still waiting to hear about the court date. I tried calling today to see if the lawyer had heard anything yet. I hope that we do get an emergency hearing.

What else can I be doing to help my case at this point?

So I visited him @ daycare this morning. The daycare has been instructed to call her when I show up to see my son. I was informed again today by BPDex that I wasn't supposed to see him there until the court had decided custody. She also informed me to return one of the two items I took of my son's that I bought for him and planned to use with him. It's so hard to be away from my son. It breaks my heart knowing that he really wants to come hang out with me for a while. I tell him I need to go, and he latches on so hard and doesn't want me to let go. I tried to hand him off to his favorite teacher today, and he tried to pull himself back to me. It's so heartbreaking. I can't wait to finally get to court. I need to have some time with my son in my life that isn't a hour at a time at daycare.

You know... .those daycare workers might be good witnesses for you about your interactions with your son if need be.

Keep those visits going sounds like your son is having a wonderful time seeing you.

Panda39

This suggests that the daycare informed BPDx that they could not/would not prevent you seeing your son without some kind of custody order.


And this suggests she is trying desperately to control what you do.

Keep following your L's advice :)


This is a pretty common coparenting-with-a-BPDx aggravation. Items you send home with your son may never be seen again. If you want your son to play with an item and keep an eye on it, best to take it with you. If you want him to have an object that might help him stay connected to you, best to let him keep it... .but don't count on BPDx allowing that.

You might also want to video your son at daycare showing how distressed he gets when you are leaving. It may help in court about getting at least 50/50 or even more time. It's obvious he thinks of you as his dad regardless of what BPDx is saying or doing. I view that as a positive. My ex tried to alienate them from me in the beginning. They used to complain that I was always punishing them, I was evil, I was abusive, etc. They once walked into my house, stopped, and in unison said, "We hate you and want to live with mom. We don't want to see you again." Stay focused on your son and realize court is a slow process. Even if it takes a year as long as he knows you love him things will work out.

My story is slightly different from david's story.  But probably a lot of the difference depends on the children's ages, how indoctrinated (alienated) they've become, etc.

My son was a daddy's boy in his early years.  He was over 3.5 years old when I called the police (trigger for our separation a few days later) and he hugged me and sobbed for dear life during their entire visit and refused to let go.  That was great because otherwise I think I would have been carted off, my lawyer later told me the policy in my area is never leave a family dispute call with an empty back seat.  He never supported my ex's claims of child abuse, not until he was 6.5 yo and she lost the pediatrician when she raged at the staff.  She must have really coached him the next visit to say I beat him (on his shins, he was an active boy with assorted bumps and dings already there) when she tried to make me look worse than her.  So I bought a Clifford the Big red Dog book about "T-Bone Tells the Truth" and he learned the difference between truth and lies.

Sadly, you can't count on a disordered ex to play fair and not be underhanded.  Many here report that the kids were used by the other parents as leverage and weapons during the divorces.  So you have to be street smart and have documentation and witnesses that you really aren't Mr Evil Personified.

Those are all great suggestions. I'm going to try and touch on everything I can.

After talking with the directors the other day, I learned that when they didn't call as she directed she was very upset with the daycare directors. I was only there about 20 minutes. They documented her interaction and my interactions that day. They are documenting everything, and are even willing to do a deposition with my L. This is awesome as this is technically supervised visitation without BPDex.

The video idea would be good; however, I have to figure it out. He likes to take pictures and videos and watch himself. The video might be a distraction from what I'm really trying to do. I do get a couple of pics of us smiling and having fun together.

We really do have an awesome time whenever we are together. He is always big smiles and leading me around his class showing me everything. He always asks if he is going home with me. He asks about riding in my car. He's an awesome little boy.

As far as evil personified, I will say that is the thing that worries me the most about court. I'm not sure how she's going to say I'm evil personified. I'm not sure what strategy I should be bringing. I'll know more as the court date approaches, and I guess documents are submitted.

I also documented her messages, and I haven't responded. I don't feel that I need to. There is nothing I can say to change her opinion of what's going on.

She has also now taken a bigger interest in my hobby. She has started trying to make friends with people I tried to get her to talk to during the relationship. Is this her trying to put on a good face? Does she not think that they will learn the truth?

The daycare may have security cameras. That might be a way to get videos. You can download them on a flash drive if they do.
The deposition will go a long way in court and that sounds like a positive.
In a way, you may want her to say you are evil personified in court. Let her go on and on. After she digs a deep enough hole you can introduce the deposition and videos if you have them. Let your attorney handle that. You simply stay focused on your son in court.
We went through equitable distribution for the divorce which she initiated. It took three plus years to finalize because of her delays. In her papers for the equitable distribution she claimed we had 1.2 million dollars in assets. My atty asked about that when he first got her papers. I said no because it was no where near that amount. However, I wrote the reply and I agreed with her evaluation. She had handwritten four pages of items and they totaled 1.2 by her estimates. I had photos from facebook showing that she had over 805 of the items in her new residence. I simply wanted my half in cash. My atty loved it. During the conference ex went on and on about how abusive I was, I was a thief, etc. Her atty had no idea what the truth was until it was our turn to speak. My atty gave her atty several pictures showing what was really going on. Her atty took her client out of the room and we settled in under 15 minutes after that.

Remember that she focuses one inch above ground. Her world is about problem creation.

Your strength is that you can see things from 30,000 feet, the big picture. Your world is problem solving.

Courts see bickering parents day in, day out. What will help you stand out is being focused on problem solving, and keeping the focus on the child's well-being.

If she throws mud, your L can say, "My client is not a drug addict, your honor. These are false and damaging allegations. If it pleases your court, my client is willing to take any test, or class, or evaluation to assure the court these are false allegations so he can get down to the business of spending quality time with his son."

Courts love solutions.

That 805 was a typo. It should have been 80%.
Like Lnl said, the courts like solutions. They really don't want to make a decision unless forced to do so. Having reasonable solutions has always been a "win" for me in court.

Just a little thought to add here.  The above is a solid Defense.  In competitive sports though, we also need Offense, few teams win with Defense only.  So can we include a little Offense here?  For example, how about doubling down on this, presenting a solution to the court that both parents submit to "any test, or class, or evaluation"?  First, you get yourself cleared of the blaming allegation.  Second, since many pwBPD project their issues onto us by Blame Shifting, having her take the same tests or evaluations weakens the abuser/victim scenario the stbEx is selling.

Good point FD.

So, I have finally gotten my court date. It is going to be 30 minutes, and I guess is to make sure that both parties have all of their paperwork in. It's a start. It's going to be 7 weeks of torture until we get there though. I'll make it though. That's just a long time of only seeing my son 2 hours a week. Luckily he's young so he and I will be able to fix that time.

I agree FD, and that is how I'm hoping that I will be able to work all of this  (In martial arts they teach to use someone's momentum against them in this way you are using defense as offense). I think that in that manner I will be able to remain at the big picture view, not allow her threats and accusations to hinder my progress, and to hopefully get her to show her true character to the court. I think that by maintaining reason I will be able to draw out the aggressive side of her.

I also like to fix things, and I spend most of my time now trying to think about possible solutions, and ways that benefit both parents. I came from a broken home where my dad was an interesting piece of work. I think that I would have been  mad at my mom if she had kept me sheltered from him and she had she not let me see him and form my own opinions of him. So this I too have to let happen with my son. As painful as it is, I know from my own experience that it will need to happen. So in this I want to make every effort to make it equal between the parents, and I want him to form his own opinions of us and his life. (know that I'm not saying that I will back down when pushed and that I will if needed adjust the terms of our agreement to more in my favor if she continues to press and fight these things.)

So I know that my ex received paperwork on where I live just a around 5 days ago. Then two days ago I come home and find that my TV has been taken out of my room. Nothing else in the house was taken. My dog was put back in the room after it was taken. I have had only one friend to the house, and my sister doesn't invite a lot of people to her house. All of this seems kinda fishy to me. Has anyone else here experienced this. We have changed all the locks on the doors, and added some locks to the interior doors to help slow progress through the house. I have a few other things happening as well to feel safer, but don't want those out there yet to see if the action repeats.

They left things that were worth more money... .

My ex literally emptied our house. We had three bathrooms and the spring loaded toilet paper holders all gone. The house had 47 electrical outlet covers all gone. I mean emptied. She then turned around and filed a homeowners claim saying I stole everything from the house and made it look like she did it. I got a rejection letter telling us that you can't rob yourself and make a claim. That made me laugh.

I hadn't posted here in a while, but today has been especially difficult... .

I'm having a rough time the past couple of days as I saw her with my replacement. It's only been two months, and I have recently found out that she is for the most part already living with him. This isn't the part that truly hurts though. She already has my child living with this man as well, and she isn't letting me see him. I have two weeks to wait until I get to see the judge for the first time. She isn't making it easy for me to spend equal time with my son. I am becoming so mad that I can barely pay attention to my own self care. I'm hurting so much right now... .

Did you know that allegations are more likely in the early part of the separation and divorce process?  So don't gift her any opportunities that you are 'stalking' or 'harassing' her.  Women get the default benefit of the doubt in such cases.

Don't follow her.  Don't go knocking on her door.  (Police told me not to attempt contact until I had a court order in hand — they refused to accompany me when I wanted to go see my son — yet they said they'd come rushing if my ex called them.  I decided I'd rather not see the inside of a jail cell.)

My ex didn't work when we first separated and our preschooler was always with her.  I would call on the phone for him but she would either hang up or not answer.  I had no way to contact my son for over three months.  When the magistrate confirmed from her that she hadn't permitted father-child contact since the last time we'd been in court about three months before, he said, I'll fix that.  He made a divorce case temp order similar to the prior protection orders before.  No, I did not get make-up time.  No, she didn't get a lecture, finger-wagging or any other consequence.  Not fair but no one claims domestic court is fair.  It's a judicial system, not a justice system.  However, a judge's order is almost always better than the crumbs an entitled and obstructive spouse would offer.

I struggled through those early months.  I was torn from it all, not just that I couldn't contact my preschooler.  But I made it through without any legal messes.  Yes, she made allegations galore but nothing much came of them.  I toughed out those weeks and months.  You can too.  Be strong despite the stress and angst.

Same here and it does get better.

I'm so sorry, FMS.  

Makes complete sense that you feel mad and hurt. You cannot see your son, meanwhile some other guy has free access. The courts move so slow and seem oblivious to the shenanigans.

These are big league crises with big league feelings. The stress alone can burn a hole in your soul.

Do you have an outlet for the pain? Feel free to start a new post asking members how they managed, what they did, how they felt.

You are not alone. People are here for you.

LnL

I've started to kinda journal my thoughts into this thread so it's easy to come back to. I have recent confirmation that she has moved on to guy number two. We've only been apart 2 months, and she has been keeping herself busy. I have known both of these men for years. So this came as quite a shock (not really she told me this is what was going to happen if I left, I guess that was probably the most true thing I ever heard from her)

I haven't even been able to think about being with anyone at all. As broken and hollow as I currently am how can I share myself with someone else? I talk to women, and I have no interest. I'm sorry ladies, I'm not a bad man, I'm a badly damaged man. One of yours did this to me. They took my niceness and used it as the ultimate tool to destroy my soul. How can I love again? How can I trust someone else with my soul? People around me don't fully understand the black void that was imparted to me. How do I give it back?

I do have outlets, and I have been building my friends back. It's nice to have them back. They help me to see the reality of who she is. They keep reminding me I'm better off without her. I know that I am. I know that I am stronger and healthier without her. I'm just losing my mind waiting for court. I think in my entire life I haven't cried as much as I have in the past two months, and not a single tear has been shed for her. I have never missed anything as much as I do my son. I just had to walk outside of work while writing this to cry. The sadness has enveloped me. I'm trying to think positively, but it's hard with all this weight. I hope court helps to lift it.

I have been trying to do self care, and these big issues envelop my happy places and times. Even the passion that I had for kayaking wanes with the wind. I know how she invaded my space so badly, and I'm trying to figure out how to not let it get the better of me. I tried to meditate and find my zen while out last night, and I failed miserably.

I have continued my therapy. I'm glad to have this, and I will continue with this until I feel better, and can walk mostly on my own again. <--This is been the biggest kickstart to getting my life in check. I need to stop feeling weak, and I need to take my power back from this antagonist.