BPDFamily.com

I know many people that still talk, or at least remain civil (have no hard feelings) after their breakups... One of my friends, who recently got divorced, is still able to talk to and be around his ex wife and they seem perfectly normal around one another...

But with our BPD ex's, they either seem to love us, or hate us... I know about the black and white thinking, but It would be great if my BPD ex would just be a rational person for a moment of her life and make some sort of peace with me...

But no, apparently from what I was told, she has some sort of anxiety attacks at the mere mention of my name, and even blocks people on social media who even know who I am...

It was like this throughout the relationship too... If I was being awesome, I was loved and adored... If I had a bad day, or made a mistake, I was the worst person in existence...

Ever since it ended, I'm seen as some sort of enemy. She truly believes in her mind that I'm an enemy, even though there's no truth to justify that.

In her defense, I did break up with her a year ago and came back, yes... So, if there's any reason, that's her reason... But, I didn't break up with her for just no reason, and she knows it was because of her behavior as I explained this to her when I broke up with her. But she takes being broken up with as some sort of mortal attack on her. It's as if she just used it as an excuse to be vindictive... Like "if I can't be with you, then I hate you and you're awful!"

Is it even possible to just be cool and at peace with these people?

Break ups are difficult whether a person is disordered or not. Everyone handles things differently.

I know I have a difficult time being around my ex. He did a lot of horrible stuff to me and it infuriates me that he wants to act like absolutely nothing happened. If I didn't have kids with him, I would not want to talk to him at all. The less I know about what he is doing, the better.

Why do you care what she is thinking or feeling? Are you in contact with her? If so, why?

How do you know so much about what she is thinking, feeling, and doing?

Ex already seems to have made peace with losing his family and doesn't seem to care. I, on the other hand, am the one that can't seem to make peace with him and be okay with things.

Because unjustified hate doesn't make sense and is highly irrational? I'm not in contact with her. It's kind of difficult to just "not care" what someone who you spent over 4 years with thinks about you, when you did nothing to deserve so much resentment... I can't just flip that switch off in my mind (like she is able to) and forget about it.



People who mutually know both of us tell me...

Here is something to think about. It is all a matter of perspective. From my point of view, I am very justified in feeling the way that I do about ex. I can provide him with a laundry list of things that he has done. I spent 18 years with this man and had 4 children with him. I didn't deserve the kind of treatment that he gave me. I didn't deserve to hear that other women floated his boat. I didn't deserve to be coerced into being his sex toy. I can't forget those things at all. I didn't deserve to be shoved while holding a baby.

Ex acts like I am not justified in my anger or resentment. Ex acts as though I should just forget the stuff that happened between us and be his friend so we can coparent together. In his mind, he did nothing to deserve such resentment. In his mind, he is the victim. He has an excuse for everything that he did. He sees me as being totally and completely unjustified in my anger and resentment.

I am not trying to compare you to my ex. I am trying to demonstrate that when a person has a reality that is broken or skewed what may look completely baseless to you or I is full of merit to them. No matter what you say or do, it is quite likely that nobody is going to be able to get her to change her version of reality.


Can you set a boundary with them and ask them to NOT tell you about her? I find that it is much easier on my mental state when I don't hear about him as much. When my mother or somebody will try to talk to me about him, I will tell them that I am not really interested in talking about him. The only one that I will listen to on that is my kids.

I've remained in civil, friendly contact with my ex since breaking up, but it takes some effort.

I've found it best to be the understanding one, and to be the one to reach out every now and again. Not constantly, or to rehash things, but just to say "hi, how are you?" As a result, she initiates contact just as much, and we speak or text most days, and meet up fairly often. It's always good natured, fun even, and usually quite lighthearted. I guess you have to be vigilant, and if things even look as though they're headed off track, you have to steer them quickly back before anything escalates.

She's never expressed it, and has always been friendly and respectful, but I'm sure there are some days where she "hates" me. I don't think it's real hate though, I think they just find it easer to feel that, than to feel anything positive and yet be apart. The trick is to try and guess those days, and so I just assume it's the one's where when doesn't either initiate contact or respond, and so I leave her be until she does.

If you end a regular relationship, at the other person's choosing, then it's understood that you might just let it go and leave them to it, out of respect, even if you don't want to. However, for someone with BPD, calmly respecting their decision, and leaving them alone, can cause them to think you never cared. I can sort of understand it as, unlike a normal relationship, where it may have ended because feelings no longer exist, BPD's can leave when their feelings are still quite strong, but reach a point where they struggle to process them normally. I guess they sometimes feel like the one who was dumped, even if they did the dumping. As such, I think of her as a genuinely caring person, with strong feelings, who I enjoyed being with, and would still be so if things were different, and who in many ways wants a stable, happy relationship, but for reasons she can't help, finds it difficult, if not impossible.

I'm pretty philosophical about it, and happy to take responsibility for my part of things. I'm also prepared to accept that a person's reasons for ending a relationship are entirely personal and down to them. I try not to think of BPD, as it can sometimes cause one to automatically assume irrationality, which isn't helpful when it seems perfectly rational to the other person. So, I don't argue, and accept her point of view, state mine and, if necessary, agree to differ.

I think the key is too keep the pressure off. Be yourself, act happy, and genuinely happy for her, and don't talk about the relationship. Show that you genuinely care, and that you'd rather things were different, but that you're ok accepting that they're not. In doing that, you're not pressuring them to get back together, nor are you saying get lost and leave me alone, and so they don't feel cornered, and have less reason to lash out.

Obviously she can't flip that switch off at all if she feels hate.

It's worth noting that the feelings after any break up are usually either regret, indifference/relief or anger. That's for normal people, but with the heightened emotions of someone with BPD, that anger translates to hatred. Whereas being civil can be akin to indifference, and is usually when someone didn't care about you, and are glad it's over, and so emotions are neither hot nor cold.

Anger, or hatred, is most common when the other person had very strong feelings for you, but for one reason or another felt that the relationship was impossible. Now, those reasons may be perfectly rational and valid, or completely irrational, but they're still valid in the mind of the other person. That kind of black and white thinking is quite common in lots of break ups where feelings still exist.

So, whilst it might be no consolation, it most likely is a reflection of how strongly she felt about you. For most people they usually cool off after a while, and in such cases can often get back together when the other person misses the good things. It's probably why BPD's get angry, split, and subsequently recycle. It's a very common path for regular people, but is just not practiced to such extremes.

From my perspective no.


I felt like I was close, but once she said "i'm glad we finally could end things on a good note as friends".

Then after that a nuke was released and the mind games started.

I think my ex would love to be friends with me, but four days after crying and telling me how difficult she was finding the break up she seemed to have no problems being in a bar with her and my replacement and then went home with. This was the person I had found a love letter from at xmas despite my ex saying she needed space and might date other people - but didn't have anyone lined up. I still feel hurt at how much I believe her and all the pain I am still going through seeing them together. I don't want to be friends with someone that can do this to another person.

I'm with earlyL on this one. As much as part of me would like to have some contact with her as she meant the world to me for two years despite what a mess the relationship was, I have no desire to be friends with someone who lies, betrayed me and has absolutely zero integrity. This girl talked of marriage and how she would be there for me forever just days before saying we were done forever and she was already with the replacement. I knew something was up the last time I saw her. She then basically ran and hid and blocked me only to resurface and lie some more later.

No thanks on having a "friend" like that.

Not if you have any sense of dignity.

Why do we have such a desire to be at peace with, be civil with or make amends with people who treated us poorly?

Shouldn't we hate them instead and not want to make things right somehow with them?

Fallenone,

A friend wisely told me the other day, holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Healing is for us not for them. Keeping our dignity and self-respect is important, which is why most of us go NC and start a new life. I can't get closure from my ex, but I can forgive her. They are mentally ill. I don't prey on the disabled. I won't do it to my BPD ex either. But that doesn't mean I want to save her. That's up to her. I consider myself a good person, so I'll hold my chin up high and be a better person if she reaches out. It's how I was raised, and we are all (or should be) people of higher ethics because of what we have been through.

I have thought about this a lot recently. I do believe one day I will feel at peace and could offer some kind of friendship to my ex, we have been through a lot, but I hope that by that point, I won't have the interest in being in contact as I will have enough in my life without her.

I do have waves of anger right now, which is part of the process, this is difficult because of course I loved her and that causes me huge turmoil. Anger comes from trying to cope with the pain I believe, and that to me makes sense, and so I am finding the anger useful right now, as long as I am not acting on it, it is mine and I think that is ok for now. As long as it doesn't last forever.

I think your question about wanting to be civil comes from our need / want to be a decent person and to be able to rise above it. But I feel if I can get to a stage where I no longer think of her, or am angry then I have done that. Throughout this whole situation I have not been unjust or hurtful towards her and that makes me proud that I have kept my values of who I am. I just want to be at peace with myself.

I have these anger waves too, I let them wash over me and then let the logic of the situation set in, which calms me down. All about keeping it in perspective. We have become addicted to drama and it's hard to untangle ourselves from it.

I can't really reach out considering she filed a false restraining order against me after she broke up with me right before xmas after being together for 4 years... .


I'm leaving her alone and respecting her decision to abandon me, because it's illegal for me to make contact with her NOT because I don't want to make contact with her... I'm being forced to not make contact. Plenty of feelings existed for me... And a lot still do, though they have dwindled... I have lost trust and respect for her... I feel betrayed...

Tell me, if her feelings were or are "still quite strong" then why did she abandon me right before a major holiday, try to do it while I was at work and not even in person, and file false legal allegations against me? She could tell me she loves me a million times... .Those ARE NOT loving actions of someone who truly cares about how you feel...

Also, this was just over 3 months ago... She filed the court order... The ball is in her court. I'm not reaching out to her and risk getting fined or thrown in jail over this... If she wants to reach out and make some sort of peace with me, or just wants to know how I'm doing, or show that she has even a slight amount of compassion or empathy, she would agree to drop the court order or at least have it minimalized... She has done neither of those and continues to fight against me on this.

Again, where is the empathy here and where is the compassion from someone who supposedly loved and cared for me?


I don't know how you can be so easy going and carefree about it? I was addicted to my BPDex... .still am in a way. I'm still addicted to the toxic effects it had on my life... Are you sure you dated a BPD?


Again, I'm addicted to her... Even still. 3 months later... I would love to know how you have this ability to be so easy going about an addiction? You don't crave that feeling again when you see her? Part of you doesn't want it back? How do you fight your urges?

It sounds like Abraxus has a very different experience then you FallenOne.

In your case the restraining order sounds like a blessing in disguise. Will allow you to find yourself again and get over the withdrawal symptoms of the trauma bonds. The addiction feelings fade over time, and you are still very close to this experience so be patient with yourself. Are you exercising, eating healthy, and spending time with friends and family?

Have you read about the disorder and its criteria? I am sure you have and thus you know now that people with BPD have difficulty empathizing and split you black for several different reasons (engulfment, abandonment, replacement, etc.).

Why do you keep trying to hope she has feelings that you know she probably can't think through logically because of the disorder?

I know this hurts so much, its like getting stabbed with a hot knife.

Because I want some sort of acknowledgement or verification that the person I spent so much time with and said they loved me, wanted to marry me, wanted to have my children, etc. etc... Actually truthfully cared and really meant some of those things?

I want to know or at least feel that I wasn't just conned and duped for the past 4 years... I want to feel like it mattered?

I want to know for sure that she at least cared about me at one point and feel that I meant something to her?

If a relationship fails, and you both come to the agreement that it wasn't working out, then that's fine... .but that's not how this went...

It literally went from one day "I love you, I want to move in together again" to the following day "You're abusive! Good riddance!"

That abrupt change is what has had me in shock... .

This is so hard. My BPD-ex disappeared four days after saying we should start planning our marriage so I know the feeling of being dumped. It makes me feel awful and dirty. That being said, as you know people with BPD do not end relationships "normally" or in a healthy manner. This is hard to accept but you will likely never receive this from her.

It is important to remember that people with BPD do NOT make logical decisions. So don't beat your head against the wall trying to find logic in her actions. There aren't any in the mentally healthy sense.

What can you do to make yourself heal and get closure on your own?

I do think that she did care FallenOne, people with BPD live in the moment so at the moment that she said and did things for you that were signs of commitment were honest and real at the time.

I am trying to hold on to the amazing experiences I had with my ex. They were real at the time. She was just sick so there was no long-term future and it needed to end for both of us. For me to move on to something healthy, and for her to move on and hopefully find the lessons to make her realize she needs to get help.

There was no other road for us, and I think in your situation the path was the same.

after my observations of my ex BPDgf and her previous ex, I decided to walk away, although finding it really hard, and despite her saying she wanted to remain friends because she had feelings for me (if so then how could she justify how she treated me?), the reason being that she stayed friends on good terms (her words) with him, and they shared looking after their 4 dogs. but the guy must have been a co-dependant because he put up with her for 7 years, and then after moving out (being thrown out because he apparently made her feel bad about herself and was playing mind games with her, again her words) he went and bought a house across the street!

So I was in the middle of their lingering push/pull behaviour although there was no relationship between them, there was still a manipulation carrying on and she openly admitted that she was using him. He was still looking after dogs, house sitting, paying for their food, and occasionally getting stuff for her. In return she was feeling obliged to help him with a few things.

So I used to hear how she spoke to him when he came to the house, either she was polite and friendly enough, or she would bite his head off and seem annoyed by him. Even when he was texting to arrange to collect the dogs or drop off, she would seem to have trouble interpreting his texts and say to me this is how he is, playing mind games. He of course wasn't, he was just a bit nieve. All red flags, but I didn't know about BPDs then, and maybe I was too absorbed in the idealisation of me period. She did put her house up for sale and want to get away, angry at him for moving so close, but was still using him, and she didn't have any contingency plan in place... they will probably remain there, feeding off each other. I did raise all this manipulation issue at time of our break up, but never got as far as to thrash it out with her so to speak. I've since realised that possibly I could have handled her and stayed (I used to diffuse her meltdowns very well) and as someone posted, she may well have gone into the I'm dumping you as a bit of a test if you really loved me or not thing, but thats a dangerous game, she lost me. She did try to provoke me by texting about her planing her holiday alone now, and going back into dating, but I didn't try to go back, just said okay, and NC.

So, I would never allow myself to become like him, I see it as negative, even damaging and holding oneself back from healing and finding a better partner.  

My BPDx has mild symptoms and eg hasn't issued a RO. So she is different from some of the examples cited above and I suspect everyone is different on this point.

She is desperate to have a civil relationship between us and I think she hates the idea that I am angry or feel hatred towards her. I think some of the recycles were aimed at proving I still wanted her or didn't have negative feelings towards her.

The problem is not being civil - it's that I fear getting back with her and therefore I wanted to keep distance and don't want to be anything but superficial in our dealings (we're LC). I am still paying for her treatment until she is back on her feet in a few months, so hopefully she knows that I care. I think it's important that they think you care when, as is my case, they can still lash out (we work together) and cause issues.

When we do talk, I hear a lot of BS coming out of her mouth. I rarely respond, save where she is really out of line about me or where she is looking for a little validation. If she is out of line about me, I just tell her I don't accept that, but there's no need to resolve the point. Where she needs validation, I give it but ask if she has discussed it with her therapist. And then get back to the purpose of the meeting/discussion. I don't do small talk about myself, don't give her any reason to be jealous as I am not telling her anything about my life.

Lots of people have commented about eg "dignity" etc above. It took a while, but all I care about now is myself and how I am behaving. I help her from a detached and distant place because it's the right thing to do. I don't let her get close as it's the right thing to do. I make it about me... .that is my dignity and self respect. She will carry on being mentally ill and with her struggles and I have accepted that as the reason she behaved the way she did. I am not angry (most of the time  ) or upset with her. It's a calming feeling and on the odd occasion where I do feel upset or angry, I accept it and let it wash over me. I am surprised how quickly it goes.

So yes, I think I can be civil with my BPDx - it doesn't mean being close or allowing them in or risking another recycle. And in my case it has the advantage of her not lashing out at work, which could be a real problem.

I was the same, I could allow it to wash over me and quickly move on from the anger or hurt... but it keeps happening time and again, so you reach a point where you have to be honest with yourself, can you keep allowing this to happen, and despite appearing to be able to deal with it, it does get to you and eats away a little more each time. as much as I may have fallen for her, I could see it would be a difficult, testing and potentially damaging time to have stuck it out. I still pine, it's hard not to, they have a hold over you, but you have to move on.

Im civil with my uBPD exgf. With have a son together so it makes life much easier. Just because I'm civil doesn't mean I trust or like her though.

Hopealways I think it depends on the reason for being civil. If its only to remain in their life in the hope that one day they will come running back and be cured then I agree with you. There are many reasons to remain civil. You may work with them, have mutual friends or children. You may even be a person that doesn't want any animosity with anyone.

That could mean a very long wait, or just more hurt. They don't just be cured, only managed. It's clinging on to some romanticising about how someone could be, how you want them to be; the reality is far from that.

I agree. It can be a messed up time for people and very confusing. I hadn't even heard of BPD when my ex wife left me. I thought it was a bump in the road but knowing what I know now I was I realise I was delusional.

I think there are too many factors for a black and white answer. It would be dependent on so much:
How bad their BPD is.
How you are dealing with it all.
Depth of hurt and understanding.
Children.
Your own possible problems. It's endless.

Ultimately very sad, which adds to making the detachment even harder. I'm like many on here, found out the hard way about BPD, even though my dad was diagnosed with it, schizophrenia and clinical depression in the early 80s

I think that is one step in the healing process. I was there at one time. At one time, I wanted peace at all costs. Somewhere along the way, something inside of me changed and I stopped caring about being civil or trying to make things right. I had an internal shift and realized that he is the one that needed to put forth the effort, not me. That desire to be civil and at peace with him, went right out the window.


No, I don't think we should hate them. I don't really hate ex. Well, maybe some days I do when he is difficult to deal with. Most days, I don't hate him. Right now, it is about making things right with myself without regard to what he is or isn't doing. I am trying really hard to take the focus off of him so that I can let myself feel whatever it is that comes up without trying to justify it or excuse it. I have no desire to make anything right with ex. I do want to get to a place where I can deal with him without it being emotionally charged for me. The only reason I want that is because we have kids together. I have no desire to be his friend. Like others have said, Why would I want a friend like that?

Strong feelings create strong reactions. Put it this way, if she had no feelings for you, then it would be hard to generate such hate. If part of you wants something, but another part feels you can't have it, then you have to deal with that conflict of emotion. That's something someone with BPD can't process in a healthy way. The easiest way to handle it is to convince yourself that you "hate" that thing/person, and once down that road they have to act as such to maintain the belief. Like I said, anger and hatred can occur in normal breakups, and it's often a reaction to strong feelings.

If you don't believe me, then look at other stories, where the break up began with anger and hatred then, after a period things cooled down, and further on an attempt at recycling occurred. This is a pattern in regular break ups too, and one of hate, calm down, and then missing the good feelings. It's normal human/emotional behaviour, mixed with the extremes of BPD.



Yes, I'm sure, but perhaps I don't get addicted. I see her and of course I want her to feel the same way, and part of me does want her back. I fight my urges because I know that those urges are mine, and that giving in to them won't achieve anything and, if anything, would just make things worse.

Rightly or wrongly I see two things, a person, and the BPD. I'm aware that BPD can affect someone's behaviours, but equally aware that they're a person too, with human emotions. The BPD isn't something in isolation, it's something that affects those underlying emotions in an extreme way. If someone is angry/hateful towards me, then they are in pain, and can't control their feelings, and so I have to control mine, as if both people can't then it spirals out of control. I don't believe that you can fully control how another person acts, but do believe I can mitigate it by how I act.

A break up can be painful for both people, regardless of who initiated it, and recognising the other person's pain, as well as yours, is half the battle, as you see their actions as defensive rather than aggressive. That helps a lot in determining how you act and react. The best way I've found is to neither fight the separation, nor to happily agree with it. Instead, take the road that you wanted things to work, and that it's a pity that they didn't as you would have liked to have tried, but that you can understand why they feel that might be impossible.

Fallen One,
   It IS possible but it depends on how much you are willing to take in a "" friendship with your ex.

Keep in mind, a friendship with a BPD is not the same as being in a relationship with one. I cannot speak for everyone here but once you are friendzoned by them they seem to have even less respect as they did in a relationship with you.

In my experience... .I know four of my ex's exes. These four women remained friends with my ex. A few things happened in our relationship involving these so-called friends.

1) I was left for one of them.
2) One of them my ex talked very highly of and then all of a sudden she told her she couldn't "be friends" with her because it wasn't fair to me (she used her to try to manufacture jealousy).
3) One my ex only contacts when she is securing new supply. As soon as she has a new person she drops her like a hot potato.

All of these people are willing to line up for additional abuse from our mutual ex. My ex dumped me calling us "Best friends". For a week after the break up she'd call me and hang up saying "I love you" which made me roll my eyes. Here is this woman who cheated on me, groomed a replacement and callously dumped me after four years.

I refused to be used and declined friendship. Was proceeded was a vicious smear campaign on her part and me being painted blacker than black.

While it hurt and still does to be treated like that, I refused to be added to the list of people waiting for another ride on the merry-go-round from he_ _. My ex painted me black because I was not allowing her to break my personal boundaries. I finally stood up for myself.

While I haven't heard from my ex in two years and don't expect to in the future, I am glad I did not sign up to be one of her several "ladies in waiting". When I look at her exes, especially the one she left me for... .and then came back, I feel pity. Here this woman thought her ex was coming back, eight years later, that things had changed and they hadn't. She dumped a HEALTHY partner for our ex and look what she ended up with... .right where she was eight years later, left in another state, to pick up the pieces of her mashed and taped together heart.

You need to forgive yourself for the wrong doings in you past relationship. Be grateful you survived this and lived to tell about it (on these boards).

I don't want to see you or anyone else go through what I did. I went back 13, yes 13 times. It took me that many times to see I was worth more than what this person was giving me (which wasn't much).

So to answer your question, you can be civil after one of these but in many cases and you will read about it here... .that level of contact comes with a hefty price which usually involves a "one sided" "" friendship where you are expected to be there for them but your feelings and needs are disregarded just as they were when you were in a "committed" relationship.

Wow - I had exactly the same. I couldn't believe it. Who cheats, leaves to be with them and then sends I love you messages. I was stunned. Thank goodness I never responded.

EarlyL,
   It was to keep me hooked while she made sure the new person was secure. As soon as I declined that she moved on to her group of "enabler friends". These people would slander me every time she broke up with me and then acted like nothing happened when we'd get back together. I don't feel for the new gal... .she will eventually experience some if not all of this.

I am glad you too saw that was "strange" and didn't accept her words.

FallenOne, this is a different form of the same question you have been asking, which is essentially "why does she seem to hate me, why cant she let it go."

youve received psychology based answers to that question. i know they are a small comfort. it is a painful, conflicting feeling, to go from being lovers, to feeling like this person is your enemy. its hard. its surreal. it is a shock to the system.

disorder based psychology aside, the two of you fought hard. its difficult (perhaps impossible in this case) to get to a place of civility given how things ended. and unfortunately it may be a greater obstacle for her than it is for you.

have you looked into Radical Acceptance? it is clear that the fallout and the restraining order are painful for you, understandably so. Radical Acceptance means that we don't necessarily like reality, but we accept the limitations on our ability to change it, and put our energy toward what we can change. you cant change her feelings (doesnt mean they will not eventually change). you cant change the circumstances now, or in the past. when we accept reality as it is, though painful, and something that many of us must grieve, we let go of the wounds that drive that desire to change what is not within our power; that drive that really prolongs our suffering, and we can move forward, productively. this doesnt happen over night, of course, but its a worthwhile direction to move toward.

more on Radical Acceptance here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0