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Well, looks like after only 2.5 years she's going to keep my boys and my home of 12+ years... .the pay out is crap and without the equity she is taking not sure where we will really go... .she and her kids celebrated last night... .my boys and I not so much... .

NS

That totally sucks, NS.  It just doesn't seem right.  I am so sorry to hear it.  There are many on this board many on this board who have more experience and wisdom than I do but wanted to offer my heartfelt sympathy and support.  I am not in your situation and do not know your circumstances (did you want this divorce or not) so cannot begin to imagine how you feel. 

For me, when I feel mad about the money I stupidly gave my ex (which is very different than being mandated to give over your house), I remind myself that my freedom from him was/is worth every penny he stole and/or will never repay.  There isn't enough money in the world that would would have made staying with him worth it. 

All of that said, I am, again, so sorry you are going through this.  Sounds really, REALLY sh*tty for you and your boys. 

XOXO
RML

                                         

WOW!  That makes absolutely no sense to me. You own a house for 12 years she lives in it for 2.5 and gets the house... .that is just soo wrong.  I am so sorry.       Is the decision based simply on you living in a community property state?   

I'm kind of speechless. 

I agree with Reclaiming at least you are free of her, but boy this leaves a really bitter taste in your mouth.

Panda39

Omg ! I can't believe that happened! The ones causing the problems get what they want !   
Im speechless too.  So sorry.

I'm so sorry, NS.

I walked away without a house, too.

Altho in my divorce, it was my own foolishness. I thought that giving him the house would make him less vindictive.

I know that had to hurt, witnessing them celebrating while you and your sons were left uncertain about where to next.

Do you get any equity out of the house at all?

Was this a settlement or a court's decision?  My impression is that courts are at least a little less 'unfair' than a spouse's demands.

Partially, but she also has a pit bull attorney friend who is wrapped around her finger and she used him like a sledgehammer to just keep beating me down with temporary order, motions, etc. etc. etc. just driving up my legal costs with false allegations you name it.  She told me "he gives me a deal so I could do this all day... ."  It just got to a point that it just made sense to relent and give her the house rather than spend $10k and 6 more months of hell to maybe get $15k - 20k out of her.


It's a proposed settlement, I pushed back a little and she's gone off the deep end again now demanding a bunch of my boys and my personal property or she'll generate more court orders just to force me to pay more attorney's fees.


Oh yeah, but it's not even half of what's really there as we've been in court disputing the home value, then they take out potential realtor fees and then slip that... .yeah, for her 2.5 year marriage my figure is she made about $35k per year by being married to me... .


It is all to crazy to imagine, and the deeper into the process we get the more and more neighbors she's turned against me too... .it's all to hard to comprehend... .and now if she doesn't sign settlement by tomorrow I'll be forced to incur thousands more in attorney's fees to answer discovery requests... .part of me thinks at that point maybe I should just lose it all just to force her from the house because that's what the court will order if it goes to trial... .

So tired and so confused... .

NS

The more you acquiesce, the more she will keep demanding.  It's as though you trying to be reasonable enables or emboldens her to think she can demand more and more... .like tossing chum in the the water, the sharks get more aggressive.

Probably best to determine your boundaries, and then stick to them.  Your personal items should be off the table, same as the boy's items as well.

Don't be surprised if she rejects offers or tries to re-negotiate them over and over and still forces you to head to court.  Best not to keep spending money in endless negotiations, conserve the money for court, many of us found that when a major hearing or trial loomed, only then you might get a settlement.  Until that point the aggressive, entitled, disordered stbEx won't be anywhere close to 'good faith' negotiations.

I feel she's still too entitled and thinks jerking you around over and over will wear you out until you scream "uncle!" and gift her whatever she wants.  You can't be the appeaser you were previously.  Don't let her demands impact you emotionally any more.  Let it all, as much as possible, bounce off you, like water off a duck's back.  Let it be you who makes the decisions on the factors such as how much she gets versus how long the case goes.  In other words, ramp back your negotiation costs and basically say, "This is my offer, once it expires then I'll see you in court and let the judge decide."  Is that something that could work for you?

I have acquiesced to much during this whole process, but have held the line for the last week and this has her stomping around and freaking out.  My attorney thinks we are close to a resolution... .I pray we are as it is exhausting.

Many people have told me through the process, it's only money you just need to get away from this person and at this point the couple thousand in personal property I've given into is a drop in the bucket compared to the sanity I will gain the moment I get away from this woman... .

Say a prayer and cross your fingers as there is a possibility that we will have a signed settlement agreement today... .

NS

My ex was like that too. I learned that making a boundary and sticking to it worked. It took several boundaries and sticking to them before she adjusted. It wasn't easy but now things are much improved. I only communicate through email. I state a fact and follow through. There is no longer any "trying to work things out" because that never worked.
We went through equitable distribution and she made some major demands. One was that she wanted half of my retirement funds. I stuck with the position that mine was mine and hers was hers. My atty backed me up by pointing out how much it would cost to go through all the different calculations and investigation. It would have cost almost as much as the money that was there. My ex wanted to hurt me but realized she would be hurting herself too. It was made clear by my atty and not by me. My ex recognizes anyone but me as an authority figure so that was how I was able to work around her.

Even though I know this I still get bit by it, because as a nonBPD I always think that there MUST be some why to get through, that there must be some remorse in there, some empathy, some way to break through and reason with her.  What I've come to realize is there is NO way to break through and if I point out what it is she is doing, what she is taking from my boys and I, she realizes it, comes unglued at me and starts projecting on me.  Just last week when I pointed out she basically is getting my home and $35,000 a year for the years we were married she snapped and said not to talk to her or her kids from here on out and everything will go through attorneys.  Then the best part, that night she told me I was a user?  A USER?  Last time I checked she's clearing like $80,000+ and I'm losing it?

It's all crazy... .

NS

It took me several years to not get bit anymore. I saw the projection/lies/etc. I came to a point of acceptance. Afterwards  I came to a feeling of being sorry for her because of the hell someone must be experiencing to be and live like that. I will never understand it and I am thankful for that. I keep my boundaries since we have two boys that are 18 and 13.

Can you pause... .?

Not the place to be to sign a settlement.

That being said... .there is a cost to "being done".  I had a friend be overly generous to quickly settle a divorce.  It worked out for him and they are decent copayments.  But he was clear in his head that he was "buying happiness" and being done.

FF

Have to decide tomorrow morning to sign settlement or go forward to trial... .have to say there's money on the table, but my attorney says if I go forward I could spend $10k to maybe get more money or I could end up losing more money and it will be three to six more months... .I'm so exhausted... .when do you just say I quit and walk away?

REALLY STRUGGLING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TO QUIT AND GET AWAY AND START HEALING OR STAY AND FIGHT?

NS

 
OK... .the general rule is that the more pressure you can put on a pwBPD... .the better.  They will crack... .or usually do.

However... .that assumes you are in a place where you can "put up with it".

Only you can answer that question.

Can you live with the deal?

Can you counter tomorrow?  Ask for 10% your way... take 5%.  Would that make you feel better?

Listen... .it if was me, I would go to trial unless you know you have the cash to go the distance.  Don't be a race car driver that runs out of fuel before the finish line.

Same thought with your emotions.

Hang in there.

FF

Hey FF,

We've been countering and she keeps pushing it back and now they put a motion out there for attorney fees if we don't get compelled discovery to them ASAP.  We'd obviously send the same back to them and yada yada yada we'd keep going around in circles and I'd be under the risk of more false and egregious claims against me and I'd continue not to have my boys under the same roof with me.

I don't know, it's a gong show and I really am not feeling like I want to risk any more cash as I'm not a gambler and as far as emotional capital left to spend... .well that account ran dry a long time again.

I know on principal I should push this and see what more I can get out of her and she could cave and throw in $10k more to seal the deal... .the risk is she goes off the deep end and on principal she takes it all the way to trial to drain me financially in attorney fees... .

NS

NS

OK... .I'm going to take a different approach.

On bpdfamily we teach people to live for themselves and let their pwBPD sort things out for themselves.  "Battling" with them is not a good idea.

So... .if I ask you if you are ready to be done with the battle... .you would say?

We also know in life that there are no free lunches.  It costs to continue the battle and it costs to end it. 

However, if you choose to end it, you have a much clearer settlement.

You get to choose.

I think I know what you are going to choose, just be clear that YOU are choosing it for YOUR reasons.  Then live your life.

FF

I would say I was ready to be done the minute it started, she and unfortunately now her children too are all just monsters to be around.  It's crazy how all of them seem so oblivious to how this type of situation must be affecting not only me but how about my boys, this is their childhood home?

A few decades ago, before I got married and divorced, I was a religious volunteer and never had much money.  I loved photography and needed a flash.  I wandered downtown Manhattan for hours, browsing the camera stores.  I couldn't afford the newer flashes and one proprietor told me that he would give me a break on an older, less fancy one but if I walked out the door his offer was off the table.  Pressure.  I've never forgotten the lesson.  Yes, I bought the camera flash and it worked for many years but whenever I recalled its purchase it left a bad taste in my mouth.

That's what I want to share with you.  Think 5 years down the road... .will you feel okay about the offer or regret accepting (or declining) the offer?  Can you gift yourself some future 'perspective'?

Whatever you decide and whichever path you take, you probably won't avoid some level of "the memory leaving a bad taste in my mouth".  Ponder the matter, accept that neither choice may be a bad one.  Six of one, a half dozen of the other.  It's okay to accept the less distasteful options.

Is it helpful to try to look at it as a business deal? Bear with me for a bit here... .

Let's put aside the "childhood home" sentiment. People move all the time, either by choice or necessity. Kids aren't generally driven by nostalgia. My parents moved me twice before I turned 10. I remember mostly being excited about having a new house. The same is true of my daughter.

Can you try to tame some of these numbers you have flying around? Extra $, lawyer fees, etc. Put your best guess in a spreadsheet -- how much $$ you will get (and not have to spend) if you take the current deal. How much $$ you might get minus how much extra you will spend in court if you fight it.

What's the difference between those two numbers? Will that difference have a meaningful impact on your life? You decide.

Are you concerned that she has squirreled away some of the marital assets and not declared them?

The question I'm wondering about is... .

Should you settle with the offer now on the table, does this mean you can completely dis-engage?  You would have no shared property at that point, and no shared children?

Would being able to cut off contact (short of the paperwork that your L could handle, re: title transfers, etc.) be worth it to you to give up the $$$/house?

Yeah... .what was the issue about "compelled discovery". 

Who is compelling? 


If you take the current deal, I would put something in it where she declares under penalty of perjury that she has disclosed. 

If she has hidden things, she will likely not be able to keep her mouth shut.  Keep your recorder running... eventually... .she may "taunt" you. 

Perhaps even put the "penalty" in there that if either party has failed to disclose and it can be proved... then $xx is the penalty.

I'm just trying to think through ways to make the deal "final" if you take it now and if major parts of the deal you take now become "untrue" that your pathway to "satisfaction" is already defined.

I don't by the 1 day left argument  What is is... .other than their bluff that happens in three days where they won't sign a deal? 

That's the other part bugging me. 

People settle all the time as they walk into court... .sometimes a week before... .sometimes a month... .sometimes during a recess in the trial. 

So... .please set aside tomorrow or go to the end of a trial as choices... .those are false choices.



FF

To late, I signed yesterday and I'm not looking back... .I can't look back... .

NS

Okay, so looking forward it is!   

Work on getting you, your boys, and your stuff outta there. 

I know what has happened is a really hard pill to swallow and it will take some time to process, but there is a lot to be said for being done, being able to take those actions that move you forward and give you freedom from the conflict, the drama and the crazy. 

Focus on you and your boys, involve them in house hunting, dream about the new home you will have together.  The house you are leaving isn't what made it a home, it was you and your sons that made it home.  You can go home again, just in a new location.

Take Care,
Panda39

I love this quote, it really does speak the truth... .and that makes me happy

Panda39 is brilliant for speaking the truth.  This is the most important truth here.  And you are brilliant, NewStart, for loving it, knowing it, and for having MADE IT HAPPEN!  

CONGRATS on beginning your new life with your boys.  You have given them the very best gift of all!  :) :) :)

XOXO
RML

What happens next?

Which of the two lawyers will be writing up the order?

Once it is written up, do you have to go to court for it to be approved by the judge?

It's all signed by the judge and done now.

I've got an accepted offer on the roughest house in the nicest neighborhood so I'm super excited to get out and start demo remodel process, but I do it all myself so I've got LOTS of work ahead and my boys (teenagers) don't have the vision... .they will soon though as it's a great piece of dirt!

One of my best friends lives a block from the new place and I will start moving things to his garage tomorrow morning and from that point forward I'm gonna be working my a$$ off to remodel and move ever day until I'm out.

Soo excited to not have to go home to a negative space anymore!

Thanks so much EVERYONE here has helped more than you know!  It's not over as she's ramped up the garbage, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel and it's not a train!

NS

Remodeling/building things with my kids is one of my favorite things.  Great way to teach them responsibility and practical skills.

I'm happy that you are heading in a direction that you feel good about.

I'm sure you are going to need to buy some new tools... .right?   :)

FF

 :)

Enjoy this feeling, NewStart.

You deserve to feel good.