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I fell in love with a beautiful girl around January of last year. Everything started off as well as anyone could ever imagine. We would go out on dates, we would kiss, and do everything a new couple would do, it was pure love. We started saying I love you after 2 or 3 months into the relationship. When the relationship got a little more advanced we would even talk about marriage and having kids, basically talking about a long term future together. Everything went perfect, except for a few arguments until the 9 month mark. On occasions you would see that she'd be distracted and would not talk, I would ask her if she was okay and she would say yes, but clearly she wasn't. Sometimes she would raise her voice at me when it wasn't not necessary. On one occasion, for example, she was having a little bit of a hard time putting on some new pants she was trying on. She joked, as she was putting them on, how they were not fitting. I then remarked the same thing, jokingly, and she then turned around immediately upset and said "did I ask you?" ... .I was just trying to make a little joking remark. I then got upset at that but she got upset at me for being upset with her, I just don't get it... .could that be BPD behavior? Did she not see I was trying to make a little comment? She didn't apologize either. I've read pwBPD get upset really easy and do not see they hurt others. At another time, we were pulling up to her house driveway but her brother and his ex were outside, she told me to keep driving and immediately started screaming and kicking around in her seat and crying how much she hated her life. I thought ice cream would calm her down but she got upset when I couldn't find spoons  (since she didn't want to go back home yet, we had to buy spoons) so she went back to the car, I eventually found the spoons but what makes me sad is the fact that I had to be the one paying for her dislike of her brother's ex. I did not know what to say and it wasn't only until a few months later when she admitted she had acted really mean to me on that day but she did not apologize. I never thought anything about her mood swings either, as I knew she had been diagnosed with depression and anxiety. But now reflecting back on her outbursts, I think it could be more than those two. The break up did not happen until almost 3 months ago, after a year relationship. I wasn't expecting it, she said she couldn't move on with her life knowing how many times she had been mean to me (she knew?) And that I have a big heart and I could find someone who truly appreciates me. The thing is, if she does have BPD, how is she able to admit to things like that? Or can pwBPD still admit it? It wasn't only until the break up where I figured out it might be BPD that she has. She even mentioned it once that she could possibly have it. After the break up, she became increasingly cold with me. Only texting one word answers, and I don't know if that's typical of pwBPD?. She told me one time that everything would be easier  (for me?for her?) If I hated her, I don't know what to make of that. Also, one time she told me that I should forget her, if she does have BPD, what could she mean by that? I have been doing really bad on keeping NC and I saw her a week ago. In that meeting I found things she started doing after our break up. For example, she now smokes cigarettes and Marijuana. Also, she's got a new boyfriend whom she met 3 weeks, just 3 weeks!  After our break up. How could she move on that quickly? I know I still can't. How could she say she loves this guy now? Is it possible she is with him because he is the one provides her with the weed? Do you think it's real love?. On that day she admitted she knows she broke my heart, can pwBPD possibly admit to that?. She told me not to text her after that meeting but she texted me a very unexpected message, "I hate you" at a unexpected time, 2 a.m. I just want answers either confirming what could be BPD or not. Thank you.

thecolombian

Welcome to BPD Family   

Your question, "is she BPD", is one that many of us ask.  The reason that we remain uncertain is that BPD is a spectrum disorder, which means; people can have it in varying degrees and it can be triggered in different ways.  Unfortunately, there is no set answer.  For most of the members here, their loves ones BPD is "sub-clinical"; below the level of formal diagnosis.

I would say that where there is smoke there is fire.  If you suspect that BPD might be at play, there is a high probability it is.  Perhaps there are other issues at work too.  The web of that question gets very sticky and very fast.

What becomes important as we begin to think through the past is how to free ourselves from that entaglement.  Sounds like you are still in direct contact with her.  If she is BPD, that may lead to more hurting and an extended period of being in limbo and discomfort.

Do you think you are at a point where you can let her go now?

Hi thecolombian and *welcome*

I'll relate some of what you wrote to what I understand about borderline personality disorder and hopefully some of this will be helpful to you.


In the DSM IV (which is how mental illnesses are categorized/defined in the U.S.) one of the diagnostic criteria for this disorder is "(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation."  A way to interpret this criteria is to say that people with BPD (pwBPD) can have "unstable and intense" relationships in which they can alternate in extreme ways between "love" and "hate."  One of my observations is that for pwBPD, their distorted feelings which lead to devaluation seems to be triggered by feelings of familiarity (or "like-family" and intimacy.

So in the beginning of these relationships, when there has not yet been enough time to be truly intimate or familiar with each other, it is easier for pwBPD to be in "idealization" mode.


So what you noticed was that after you have spent a good deal of time together and after taking steps in the direction of "like-family" or planning to be "like-family" your BPD loved one perhaps started to show signs of "devaluing" you. At least she was no longer "idealizing" you.



Other diagnostic criteria for BPD are: "(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood" and "(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger."  This is to say pwBPD can exhibit strong mood changes and inappropriate anger.


The first diagnostic criteria is: "(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment."  I see this as a key quality of this disorder.  As I see it, the feelings of intimacy/familiarity trigger their (real or imagined) fear of abandonment.  One way I might interpret her behavior towards you is that as she grew more intimate and familiar with you, her disordered fear of (imagined) abandonment also grew. So in a way the closer she got towards you, the more she became overwhelmed with her (imagined) belief that you intend to abandon her.  And this might explain her confusing behaviors towards you.

With her brother (it doesn't get more familial than with actual family), she probably sees her brother's ex as the cause of her imagined belief that her brother has abandoned or betrayed her in some way (real or imagined). I am certain that her brother has experienced all the "idealization" and "devaluation" that you have in the year that you've been with her, except he has experienced it for as long as he has know her.


Self-reflection, apparent empathy, sympathy... .these are qualities that are not unavailable to people with BPD.  I do note that my own exuBPDgf said exactly these things to me (she had hurt me, complimented me, wished I would find someone who appreciates me, etc... ) when she left me as well.


Perhaps it would be easier for her to hate you (if she plans to devalue you) if you also hated her.  And perhaps she tells you that you should forget her, because she plans to forget you.


You see, another quality that is often used to describe pwBPD is that they "lack object constancy" (you might consider looking this up).  This is not actually in the diagnostic criteria.  But one of the behaviors this quality refers to is that for pwBPD once they no longer need you, they stop loving you.  This is not the experience for nonBPD; even after the relationship is over we still carry over our feelings and grief, et al.  But for pwBPD, they seem to be able to initiate another relationship without pause, or more commonly having relationships overlap.  Think "pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships... ."


I don't think it has anything to do with the weed.  And it's not the kind of love that nonBPD experience.


You can have BPD or not and still be able to acknowledge that you broke someone's heart.  However, it's more BPD to be completely disconnected from what that means to the other person -- especially when the pwBPD is now focused on a new relationship.

So, I hope some of what I wrote can help you come to your own conclusions.

Best wishes,

Schwing

Hi there

 

To add to what others have said, we can't of course 'diagnose' any one of our exes being talked about here. We are not psychologists, etc.

But one thing jumped out at me from everything you wrote... .that your ex has told you to hate her. To forget her. I usually totally concur with Schwing's input on other's posts (including my own, thanks Schwing!) but I have a slightly different take on it. My own (non diagnosed) ex has just entered a 3rd bout in the last year and a half of ST towards me as of this time last week, (just days after several perfectly pleasant interactions with him), due to certain events last weekend.   But in the last few months that he HAS been talking to me (and at times staying the night with me, but that's another story) it seems to me that he has been on far more of an equilibrium and making a serious concerted effort to be like a friend to me. He has told me that he can't be my happiness, that he doesn't want to lose me from his life but NOT LIKE THAT. That he wants me to find my happiness, that I am one of the most important people to him, but that sometimes he is like a child and wants to run away from everyone.  He has told me all kinds o things in a kind of contradictory 'I want to have you in my life but not' kind of way. The message has consistently been along the lines of that he doesn't want to lose me but won't be with me. At the same time, he won't forge any kind of friendship with me other than when he bumps into me, coming over for a chat, or coming to my workplace to visit, etc. Actually asking to see me and do the things that friends do, no. 

He has in some ways tried to do everything to keep me at arm's length.  But he won't quite let me go... .so for example, after weeks of silence from me (which was a killer for me) he messaged me in the middle of the night asking me where I was and could he see me. The preamble to the text was that I was 'free to hate' him. That was his first contact. That's what he immediately assumed I would feel... .hatred.

Over the 2 years I have known him, he has told me (during the course of 2 breakups, recycles, being lovers, not lovers, being talked to, being totally ignored, being told that I have been deleted and cancelled from his life and that I don't exist anymore) that he has a very dark side. That I bring out the best in him but that the dark side exists. That he has a darkness in his brain. That I didn't do anything wrong, but that the problem is in his brain. That he doesn't deserve a gift from me because of the way he has treated me. 

He has ALSO said "YOU SHOULD FORGET ME AND HATE ME". He then said, when I asked him why, that he couldn't explain it because it was complex. We got back together that night. I got dropped just 2 weeks or so later, without explanation, and then went into the most heart breaking and hellish ST through a huge part of last year.  I went through another some time later. We have been talking these 5 months and now, I am being totally disregarded again. And this time, I am strong enough to cope, because I've been here so much, and I know now what I am dealing with. I already know that at some point, he will not be able to bear not coming to talk to me. Might be next month, might be next year. I'm not waiting on it.

I thought that you might like to see this, because the words used are almost identical, are they not?   

Schwing has posited that this is because your ex is preparing to hate you/devalue/forget you. But I don't believe this to be the case and certainly don't think anything so sophisticated as planning to be do those things is going on. BPD sufferers can be incredibly impulsive - they certainly act upon the feelings they are feeling in that moment and get swept along by them, it seems.

My own ex (when he is not up to the eyeballs in alcohol) is incredibly intelligent, lucid, and strong minded. He is also very clearly a troubled and tormented soul. The horrific way he has treated me emotionally and mentally this last 1,5 years have led me to this site, as for many on here, and to draw my own conclusions as to what is wrong with him. I think he has BPD traits. Not all, but enough to cause significant misery for those of us affected.

But this intelligence and self awareness also means that my ex KNOWS there is something very very wrong with him. By God he's tried telling me enough times. The heart breaking tragedy of it all is that he doesn't know what it is and seems unable to stop himself from doing the awful things he does. It's almost compulsive. He can't articulate it, but he can articulate that there's a problem. And it's my theory that the part of him that does have empathy, who did at some point at least, love me, who knows that I am 'a wonderful person' (his words)  is in actual fact, not just trying to protect himself, but also me.  In a kind of twisted logic where the perceived (without foundation) threat is of being abandoned, pushing someone away and then let them not see the darkness, or be badly treated, doesn't just protect the BPD from being abandoned. It also protects the unwitting ex/partner from the hell... .if they go away. Mostly, I suspect we are just totally and utterly confused as to what just happened, and of course, try to make things right. We don't just 'forget and hate' them but push harder for closeness or to know what happened, or to try to help... .so end up being in danger of revealing what they know, or think they know, is lying under the mask.

However messed up they are, and of course it depends upon where they are on the spectrum, but BPDs are still (as I always say) still human beings. And that means that some of them at least will have a modicum of awareness, empathy or a sense of what is right and wrong. I don't believe that the intention is ever malice, it is always one of self protection.

Knowing that, and reading here more and more, and knowing there are others on here who have endured almost identical conversations, might just help you to find some of the answers you're looking for.

I remember only too well the sheer agony and confusion of him almost imploring me to hate him, whilst clasping my hand to him and telling me I am one of the most important people to him... .a sentiment he has repeated several times over since.  When pressed, he can't explain. I asked how am I supposed to forget and hate someone I am in love with.

As I so often say at the end of my posts... .the whole thing is just so terribly sad.