BPDFamily.com

So I had been fully NC for three months.  He had reached out a couple of times.  I guess, testing the waters. 

It has been pretty hard trying to move forward without him, but I was doing pretty good.  Then, just out of the blue, two nights ago, I missed him so bad, I actually texted him, just responding to one of his "testing the water" texts. 

He texted me back and we have been in text communication since.

He is away for a couple of days, but has asked if we can see each other when he gets back.  He was the one who said that he knows we have broken up, but he would just like to be friends who care about each other and maybe see each other occasionally.

I would really like to do this.  I've missed him so much, yet I know we can never have a relationship as a couple, because he can't do that.  I think I can separate my feelings enough, to just enjoy the moments of him holding me, and not worry about his cheating and other stuff.

Has anybody here, successfully changed direction like this?

If you accept to be an orbiter and share him with other women then yes it is possible. Keep in mind that if you aren't detached emotionally from him you'll cause yourself harm when he parades other women in front of you, or is only available on his terms. Expect him to be "out of town" and unavailable while he's with his main attachment, and you become another number on his phone.

I wouldnt do that and besides, you dont really even know that do you really want him. People are built in the way that they like something they cant have. In these cases, its not about the chemistry, although some like to think that way, but its more like getting something/one what is hard to get. If he would start to beg you suddenly, for example, then you may found that he is not at all that someone. You should sit down and think carefully what are those plusses (if any) you are attracted to. Respect yourself

DG -- I did a version of this, in the sense that I deeply accepted that my ex wBPD couldn't "do" a sustained intimate partnership (despite that he doesn't acknowledge this--his view is that there is someone out there with whom that will not be true), and yet I wanted to be in his life and vice versa.  Like you, I just really missed him (I'd been out of touch for about 11 months because as soon as we broke up he got close to an ex and it just felt super yucky while I was processing what happened and why, was learning about BPD, working on acceptance, etc.)

I got back in touch.  We had about 15 months of strong, lovely connection.  However ... .it was under this rubric of "not a relationship," like you're contemplating.

I now can see that it was that very rubric which allowed the closeness.  He wasn't so scared/unsettled by the closeness because there was this per se limit on where it could go that we had already established.

So we had the irony that we had an actually great intimate relationship that could be those things because we/he denied that it was a close intimate relationship.

And that was OK until ... .he remembered he DOES actually want a close intimate relationship, and he went off to find that with someone else.  That just didn't square with all we had been doing and had built, at least, not for me.  For him, it was fantastic!  Sort of an unacknowledged open relationship, with me as the muse or wife at home, and him able to supplement that with exciting new love feelings with someone else.

Ultimately, he and I weren't in the same project.  I was making myself vulnerable with and to someone, and building something with him.  He was marking time till he found something better, something like he imagined love to feel like.  (For a minute.  Till it no longer felt like love either.  And then, rinse and repeat with yet another devastated woman, and another.  But back to us ... .)

I think you have to carefully examine whether the very same feelings of deep missing and connection that drive you to want to be with him now, don't tell you that you won't in fact be content with these limits.

Sometimes we love someone deeply and we have to let them and that go, and it hurts, and mourning is required.  We can avoid the mourning for quite a while with all these contorted bargaining-based arrangements.  I did, for several years.  Ultimately, it has been necessary to resume the mourning and really accept that he cannot maintain a close relationship with integrity, and I can't do one without it.  We just don't match in a very important way.  It is super sad.  I miss him and us like crazy.  But it's still that way.

This doesn't mean you might not need to try your plan and process your own experience.  I needed to see it for myself.  But I'm wary for you of the idea that you can be with someone you care so much about, and be genuinely OK with those limits.

Good luck.

hi DreamerGirl,

i suspect it will be tricky going. if you decide to go forward with a platonic friendship or friends with benefits, i strongly encourage you to work through it on the Improving board. 

I wouldn't do it.  Sex with you should be out of the question considering his past.  Even a friendship would have to be tempered to the extent that he's recovered and the social circles you interact in.  If you don't regularly have to come across him in your social life, and he hasn't done the work to deal with the underlying trauma, it's just a recipe for recycling.

I don't think it works... .they end up with a new partner and then you have to deal with those feelings of being second. I have been there... .some people think they can do it, but I really don't think it is in our nature. It is just prolonging the ending and heartbreak. That's just my opinion.

I believe FWB is possible to do, and it is healthy for some people.
I believe casual hookups are possible, and also healthy for some people.

DreamerGirl, I don't know if either is healthy for YOU. That is for you to figure out, and I suspect you will find it out by either getting hurt or being happy when you try it.

There's a slightly different question for you, and that one I've got a pretty good idea about.

Can your BPDex be a safe/healthy FWB for you?

I *REALLY* doubt that. The first word in FWB is friend. I really doubt he can be a good, safe, trustworthy friend to you, whether you have benefits or not.

If he was a good friend, would you have needed three months NC with him?

Higher functioning pwBPD can have relatively clean relationships, as long as they aren't very intimate; many have good careers and get along will with coworkers, for example. He couldn't behave well in an intimate, romantic relationship with you. If you try to reconnect as "friends", it is 99% certain he will try to pull you into intimacy like you had before... .then return to the behavior he had with you when you were in the r/s with him.

You will need to do all the work, enforcing boundaries, limiting intimacy, protecting yourself. You will need to be better at it than you were when you were in the r/s with him.

And most likely your last act enforcing the boundaries will be pushing him out of your life again.

If I knew than what I know now about personality disorders I wouldn't of hung on to the delusion of any kind of a r/s with Xw. She left when s10 was 4 months old, we continued with a sexual r/s until June 2015. Those years were very confusing and when someone came along I was discarded. Our r/s was very abusive, verbal, mental, emotional. When she left she changed gears and it was very covert emotional abuse and when I was discarded by Xw for good she formed a sinister hate for me in which she hasn't spoke to me in two years, only to spew venom and abuse. I feel my life would be in a different place if I had of completely walked away from any kind of a civil r/s with Xw, and sticking only to dealing with s10. My experience is that the personality disordered only know one thing, use, abuse, deceive, lie, manipulate. They extract everything they can and move on. They are not capable of true stable human emotions or feelings only hurt and destroy. They are wired wrong right from the factory and will never work right.

I would echo Grey Kitty. Can a pwBPD... .especially ex, be a true "friend"? It could be a lot of work and what is the payoff?

Compassion was my hook. After our r/s ended I didn't want to be a person who abandoned her. I wanted some form of friendship or continued communication. She had 1 y/o baby girl that I didn't want to lose contact with too. Then we also spent a lot of time with her family since my ex lived with them. It was a lot more for me to lose than her. I finally discovered BPD on the Web, met with a BPD support group (of pwPBDs), and actually met a very helpful pwBPD on the Web who helped me write a letter to my ex. She was somewhat friendly about meeting up occasionally but she was very abrasive too.

I finally realized I didn't deserve that. We emailed back and forth occasionally until she finally went off the deep end on me. Sometimes I would hear back from her quickly. Sometimes it would be months. It wasn't really a friendship.

I've gone completely cold turkey since that email back in about 2012... .just about 2 years after the b/u. I completely gave up and I'm in a better place. I feel bad for her but I know she's on her own journey and she's not healthy for me at all. Maybe... .maybe... .someday I could handle limited communication with her, but what's the point? She treated me like dirt at the end even though I gave her gold? Sometimes you just have to draw a line and stick up for yourself.

Hey Dreamer Girl, No, I don't see this are a realistic possibility in the context of a pwBPD.  To me, it sounds like you think you can dip your toe back into the toxic BPD waters without running the risk of getting hurt again.  To me, it seems like this is just an excuse to postpone what, on some level, you know you need to do: the hard work of moving on from a BPD r/s.

LuckyJim

It's been many years since I've recovered from my BPD experience.

FWB is a very challenging situation even between normal people.  I would never consider FWB with a BPD even though in some ways they are well suited for it.  Walk away and never look back is the best thing you can do for yourself.

My last recycle I began to realize how many people have come and gone from her life. It's continous for her . From exes, to friends to coworkers, through new acquaintences
... .there were always potential idols in her grasp.

Some of these people become main attachments, while others become one night stands, while others gravitate in and out of the BPD's life sometimes for decades. I suppose that these people have maintained some form of a fwb agreement.  In the mean time these people are either cheating on their significant others, or they've put their lives on hold being satisfied with seeing them from time to time.

Once you've been in a relationship with a BPD and there has been NC in the past,  regardless of who initiated it, a fwb with a borderline ex is just prolonging the pain, bartering seconds of pleasure for months of pain.

Rayban-

Very well said! Why should we just get the crumbs or scraps from a FWB r/s with our BPDx? Trust me, it ONLY benefits the borderline. They have been revealed to us so when we now look dreamily into their eyes we know that we disgust them or that they are thinking about the next person they already have on their hook. They have no idea how to maintain a friend or any type of relationship. They are only looking for VWB (victims with benefits).

We all deserve more! I think we hope for that lightening in a bottle feeling one more time... .but at what cost to our minds, bodies, and souls?

Think long and hard in regards to what's best for you... .because they will not.

I couldn't do it. I had to tell her that. When I recycled she wanted to keep it as friends and I was doing well. Then she made the affectionate moves onto me. And I accepted. When she was done with me 2 days ago she asked to be friends because she wasn't well and needed support. What our "friendship" would have looked like was me catering to her and doing what she needed in her time of need.

Especially if you have feelings for him. Because, as I told her, there would have been a proverbial carrot on a stick over my head labeled "relationship" and I would have been always in pursuit of that as she kept it just out of reach. So that's my two cents.

I personally could not do  this. The breakup nearly killed me. This seems like it would just prolong the inevitable and contribute to more suffering and reopening all the wounds. I couldn't go through it again.

Hi, DG,

I would tend to agree with others that have commented that this would be extremely difficult for you if you still have feelings, which missing him as you do certainly seems to be the case.  I don't think we can do the mind/body separation too well, and it would in my opinion give you or him false hope that a relationship would once again be possible... .as much as we tell ourselves that's not the case.  My own history of recycles in my former relationship reinforces this in my mind.  During our last recycle (August 2016 through December 2016), my ex had begged me to "help him" and be a "close friend" and though I would not have labeled it as FWB but as another vain attempt at making things work, it was a ruddy disaster.  Broken again on both sides, no changed behavior, and semi-detachment from me the whole time as I know that nothing would last for the long haul.  Why put yourself through emotional chaos again?  The FWB thing sounds just too damn hard, and maybe it's because I'm old fashioned or manufacture too much oxytocin or something, but I think for women (especially when you have loved someone) being FWB is just more pain and suffering.  Not worth it in my opinion, but God, I know the pull... .

"We all deserve more! I think we hope for that lightening in a bottle feeling one more time... .but at what cost to our minds, bodies, and souls?"

I couldn't agree more... .I tried it. Once the trust is gone and you know what they are and what they are capable of... .I personally couldn't get that feeling back.

Thank you everyone.

Lucky Jim you were and are right, I was trying to postpone the pain of moving on. 

Why couldn't I just move on myself.  I just don't understand why I let him back in to have control over my feelings again.

We did catch up a couple of times.  I felt like I was in control, but I wasn't really, because my heart was still involved, even though I tried to fool myself.

So, now here I sit, hurt again.

So we couldn't even last as FWB. He even discarded me from this.  He texted he has met someone else and he doesn't want to brain f**k himself mixing the feeling he shares with me.

I know this is the best thing that could happen for me.  He has closed the door.  I couldn't do that, even after his emotional abuse of me, I still kept my heart open to him.  There was a small part inside me, of hope for us.  I hoped somehow we could, go back to the start, the bit where everything was great.

I feel really upset.  Even though I know everything I know about BPD, I still seem to think he should be feeling like me.  How can he just not want to be together.  After everything we have shared.  Just makes me sad.

I am trying to see this as the turning point for me.  I couldn't shut the door.  He has.

I just feel really low at the moment. 

DG I feel your pain! Long story short, 5 years together constantly repeating the cycles of bps madness, cheating, lies, manipulation, triangulation, smear campaigns, you name it it's happened at some point.

Logical me says go NC, now we're apart, sort of, unlogival me says, but what if?

I've been doing the FWB thing since the last split and start of my devalue. I tried putting in place a boundary with her as I've noticed more and more that I'm being moved in to her friend zone and the source of supply she was getting from me she is now getting from another source, yet she remains in contact with me and I with her. I know o should detatch but like you, I'm still clinging on and fooling myself whilst, if I'm honest, waiting to be told about my replacement and how we can no longer remain in contact. If that's not what happens then I'm guessing she'll disappear without a trace or we'll have a blow up about something and both go in to no contact as we have before.

I know myself that staying in a FWB scenario will only cause me more hurt and pain but those moments we spend together are when I am most happy and content in my life. I think if I can just show her much I love her, wait on her hand and foot, be attentive and loving, then she'll suddenly wise up and realise that she is still in love with me. I know deep inside that that's never going to fully happen nor in the way I want it to. I'm denying myself, not listening to my own truths and still trying to ignore my gut feelings even though, looking back, my guylt has been right the entire time. I guess I'm stuck in the fog but I do know that I need to find a way out. I should go no contact, sign up on a dating site and run to the hills but here I am stuck, stuck with a false belief that if I try hard enough everything will fall in to place between us again.

The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result!

Guess I'm insane beyond comprehension

Lieber ein ende mit schrecken als ein schrecken ohne ende - Better a horrible end than horror without end

I think I could do without either

DazedD40 I am exactly where you are.  I have tried it all.  I have been the most perfect girlfriend you could wish for, I have bent every way possible, to achieve this.  It wasn't enough.  When they get bored or need to re-write history, we are thrown away.  That's how I see it. All the history we shared, good and bad is now just flushed away.  He wants to start afresh.  Like when he first met me.

I'm sure you have read this, but it might help to read it again.

Sex will bond you to a person - getting involved will re-bond you especially if you are still love with him. i don't think you can compartmentalize this.

Something to consider.

Whatever you decide, we will support you.

In romantic love, when two people have sex, oxytocin is released, which helps bond the relationship. According to researchers at the University of California, San Francisco, the hormone oxytocin has been shown to be "associated with the ability to maintain healthy interpersonal relationships and healthy psychological boundaries with other people." When it is released during orgasm, it begins creating an emotional bond -- the more sex, the greater the bond.

Well, my boyfriend had this arrangement with his roommate, while he was push pulling me.
(he promised me they were just best friends.)Just found out about it recently, after he recycled me briefly, and at that point I ended things. because this goes against my true self.
I am still having a hard time, that  someone I trusted can have an intimate relationship with someone else like changing a t-shirt. He never missed a beat, while I was pining away for him. Doesn't seem right or fair. I waited for my "soul mate" for close to ten years, to love and trust again! hah. At times I feel like I am dying, but they are jus feelings of addiction, deep sadness and anger. Trying not to take this personally, as I know he is mentally ill. But this hurt to the core! I truly wish I never met him. Opening my heart to the wrong person, Its me who has to pay the price. Cause guess what? he's fine.
On top of everything, I ran into his seedy "roommate" at the cvs yesterday, who is an addict. Yeah, it really upset me. I will have to be tested for aids and hep c. now. My ex  doesn't care about my well being, or anything else that isn't about him. Could it be yours has the same concerns? Is it worth it going back for a recycle? absolutley not!You are worth more than this, I am worth more than this. We as women, are more than a number. Please ask yourself, if this was your daughter or best friend, what would you tell them.

This is another one of those things that make me question if what they do is intentional or instinctual?

My BPD ex was open to sex on the very first date. After that through out a 18 month relationship, we had sex over 100 times. I also remember her saying a few weeks in, "your pussy whipped ". She was right.

I guess I'm asking do they know sex creates a potent bond, or is a known fact, that I was ignorant of?

Writing this I'm pondering did she sleep with me so many times cause she felt something for me, or was it just to keep me bonded.

Rayban, my ex would have sex with me an average of 3 or 4 times a day, and over an 8 year relationship that's pretty ridiculous.  He used to say it was the only way he ever felt connected (guess a nice hug and cuddle wouldn't work), so maybe it just was some kind of desperate, instinctual "method" to bond us together.  Sad thing is it worked and I'm still bonded and can't move on, 5 months after I left him.

I would say it's not a great idea. Let me ask you this... .

What is your definition of a friend? Does your ex fit that definition?  I second Rayban on this one, settling for this turns you into an orbiter. This gives your ex control to come and go as he pleases with 0 commitment.

I watch this with my own ex.  She has two exes that fall into this category. One is currently with a man dying of cancer. All of a sudden my ex's whole family is leaving well wishes on FB. You can bet if this man were to pass my ex would drop her GF on her head. I am friends with one of my ex's exes and when she dated our ex five years earlier she was left for her once. Then, when this woman ended up with someone else, she went back to this person telling her she lost the love of her life.

They always want something they can't have but when they get it they destroy it.

This ex she pines for she's cheated on MANY times, even moved with her across the country only to drop her flat on her face.

Whenever my ex secures a new relationship she drops everyone else on their heads. Is that really what you want for yourself? I think it feels like being dumped all over again, and for what?

So is that why they still want sex with you following a break up? To keep you bonded until such time they are having their sexual needs satisfied with a replacement?

As previously mentioned, I've been doing the FWB thing following the break up but I think I've now reached a point where I'm going to take that off the table!

I asked if we were now in a place where we can start talking/seeing/sleep with other people! Her response was, we're no longer together and I won't stop you from doing what you want. She then advised that although she isn't at present, she will be soon. She's the queen of half truths and I'm pretty sure there's someone I'm being triangulated with currently.

Hearing her say that, and yes I know i asked for it, cut me to the core. There me clinging on in there hoping things change yet it's clear she's made her mind up on what she's doing. How can I stay in a FWB situation with her knowing that? I'm thinking it's time to ghost her awa and go in to major low contact with her. For me that means no more seeing her which breaks my heart but I think in order for my heart to mend then I need to be well clear of her now.

DazedD40

It might hurt distancing yourself from her, but be the one to do it. Or else you have no idea about the world of pain you'll be in when she's going to confirm that she's with somone else. You'll be obsessing over what this person has that you don't.  She know this and will go out of her way to tell how great the new person is and how you're lacking.

Status quo in continuing to see/sleep with her, might leave you mired in her Web for years. Yeah she'll call you when it suits her, throw you a few crumbs. You'll put your life on hold waiting for her. You might also begin seeing somone else yourself only to return to your BPDex cause your heart won't be in it with the new person you are seeing.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and advice.

I thought that being FWB might help me to detach from him.  I had given up on the idea that we could ever have a future together, so I thought this could be a way I could just ease myself out slowly and let my heart catch up to my brain.

We did the FWB's and I still felt a terrible attachment to him, even though I kept telling myself I didn't.  

It's actually a horrible feeling to be with someone that you love/loved, and that you used to be in a committed serious relationship with, to then be just a bed buddy to them.  

I did this, for a couple of weeks.  Then he sent me a text message to say that he couldn't see me again, because he had met someone, and he didn't want to confuse himself with the feelings that we share.

I wish that I hadn't gone back and tried to be friends on any level, but unfortunately I did.  It's been a year now, almost, since we went from him adoring me to discarding me overnight, and all the stuff in between.  

One thing that I can say for certainty, is that I will never go back.

It took me 12 months to figure this out.  But, I needed to do what I did.  I never got any closure when he discarded me last July.  Then I took him partially back in October, after his charm, but I still didn't have any answer to the discard.  This time, even though I felt so hurt and rejected, that he could just throw me away, again, I feel like I finally have the closure that I desperately wanted 12 months ago.  

I do believe that he loved me, when he said it.  But his feelings were superficial and changed rapidly, from moment to moment depending on how he felt.  So, the five years of our relationship, where I felt like we had built a strong bond from sharing our good and bad experiences together, had in reality, no lasting effect on him.  A one night stand or a five year relationship, is the exact same to him.  As long as he is getting a high/excitement, that's all that matters.

I have tried this several times and it always ends in pain. Going in I have the idea that I can provide unconditional love and that any contact is better than silence. As soon as he opens the door I go in, and I feel home and think he has seen the light. I try to display perfect behaviour. Certainly he will see how wonderful and loving I am and remember how head over heels he was in the beginning, and finally decide to be with me in a real way again. But no.

It is so hard to let go of the sex and intimacy when it is the best sex and intimacy you have ever experienced and you believe you will never have that again. What is beginning to help me is to recognize that he doesn't love me anymore. Deep down I always thought he did. I just thought he was messed up or I was misunderstood. If I could just show him how much I loved him... Knowing he is having sex with me without the love makes it less appealing. I think people can do casual sex, but at least for me I can't have casual sex with someone I am in love with. I also question how he can have casual sex with me and then walk away, after we have been in a r/s for 5 years. Why does it hurt me and not him? Did he value our relationship? Why doesn't he grow attached to me again in those moments? Why do I carry all of the pain? Why does he not worry that while he isn't committing, I might be finding someone else?

Once he decided he was done with me it was like he turned the emotions off. He could spend time with me, be affectionate, have sex, do the "alone" part of our relationship, but when I left he didn't miss me, didn't feel the pain of separation. He was detached and could take the sex and closeness, but he maintained he would not return to our "cycle" again. He did not want to pursue our r/s anymore.

My intentions going into FWB situations with him always became clear. I was using it as a way to get close to him with the hope that I could win him back. That was my true motive. To give yourself to someone 100% when they are only giving you a piece of them is painful. You put life on hold while they keep their options open.

I did the emotional version of this, and can't agree more.  It's awful to realize that's what it is.


This is such a good summary of what finally broke my sense of loyalty to him and to our "bond."  That really isn't a bond, not on his side.  It's a temporary alignment.  He doesn't mind living his life that way -- or at least not most of the time.  He has a whole elaborate life philosophy that rationalizes these short lived but intense connections with other humans.

To me it feels like using, consuming, exploiting, and I can't feel the same way about him, now that I know this is what his feelings for me are.

Thanks for posting & updating, Dreamgirl.

^ to me, this is the definition of a functioning BPD.

People that come and go from their lives. Even when they have a primary attachment, the allure of somone new is always around the corner.one night stands, exes reconnecting, new conquests, they just make it a lifestyle. 

Closure is something a pwBPD generally can't give you, you'll have to Gift it to yourself.