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Dear BPD family,

For the past 5 months this forum has helped me get through a very difficult time in my life. However, not much has changed in my understanding or coping. I cry day and night and I am hoping someone out there can help bring me some peace.

About 2.5 years ago I met the most amazing man in the world. Our connection was instant. I fell in love and I think he did too very quickly. For 2 years, I had the most beautiful, passionate, friendship, love story I could have ever imagined. I woke up every morning thanking the universe for this beautiful gift I had been given.

During the course of our relationship we had very few problems. I have a house full of gifts with cards telling me I was the love of his life, that I make him very happy, and I felt very loved by him.

He asked me to marry him in Italy in the most romantic way that you only see on TV. I accepted and we were set to get married in about a year.

He had told me on our first date that he was insecure. Throughout the course of our relationship, I saw that he had this fear of us breaking up. No matter how many times I reassured him I would stick by him no matter what, he still would bring it up "I feel like one day you will wake up and realize you are too good for me." I didn't understand why he said that, why he tried so hard to please me, why he feared that he would lose me. I wasn't going anywhere.


He repeatedly told me things like his mother never loved him - even though it was clear as the day is light that she did. That his grandma hated him. That his mom would leave him for months to travel, that she was never a real mom to him, that his family was critical of him. He said his ex wife cheated on him, that she never loved him. He said he looks at himself and doesn't feel handsome or successful.

Unlike him who is conservative and reserved, I am very social, outgoing and have many friends. We both have graduate degrees from ivy league schools. My work required me to have heavy interaction with men - many of my clients are male. That bothered him.

A few days before we were about to go on a big trip, I made the biggest mistake of my life. One that I will regret for the rest of my life.

For months before this incident, he had become very clingy. If I didn't respond to a txt immediately, he would get upset. He would text me almost every hour. If I took an hour while we were together to do something for myself, it would upset him. He had a camera outside my door for "my safety" but I feel like it was more to monitor me. He could see from his phone who came and went. He put me on his phone plan. Knew all of my email passwords. I didn't care because I had nothing to hide. He always asked about my whereabouts - who I'm with, where I am going, where I met the client. Again, I didn't care because if he needed assurance, I was ok giving it to him.

That day he made a comment to me that rubbed me the wrong way. He said "its not just men I have to worry about hitting on you. Women love you too" in response to a lunch date with a female. It was flattering but it also felt weird. He didn't want his best friend to have dinner with us because he was worried his best friend might start to like me too.

We would have sex sometimes 4 times a day (we didn't see each other every day). On the rare occasion that I would fall asleep and we didn't, the next morning he would wake up and I would see sheer panic in his eyes and I had to spend the rest of the day assuring him that I still loved him. Falling asleep was taken as a rejection.

So the night I made a dreadful mistake. He called me and asked me to pull over because he had something "urgent" to discuss. He said he had been monitoring my phone and noticed that I had sent a text to a male colleague at 7:30 am and that I had sent a picture to him at 2:30 am.

I felt accused, mistrusted and it was creepy that he was sitting there monitoring my phone. I had never sent anything to anyone at 2:30 am and I am rarely up past 10pm. That was complete BS and I thought he had gone crazy. I was tired that night, stressed, PMSing, exhausted from constantly reassuring him so I made a mistake that cost me dearly.

In the heat of my anger, I said "It's over." I didn't mean it, I was just so upset. I hung up the phone, started crying hysterically. No matter what I did, he didn't trust me.  I sent him a txt that said "you are controlling, insecure and no matter what I do you cant seem to feel how much I love you." And I didn't talk to him for 24 hours - someone who needed to talk to me almost every hour didn't get a call from me for 24 hours.

The next day, I drove to his work so we can talk. We were traveling that evening. I was greeted with pure RAGE. The man that would get tears in his eye if I had a paper cut had turned into another person. He looked like he was going to hit me. I didn't recognize this person anymore.

I begged, pleaded, asked for one more chance. Nothing. I was discarded like I never existed before. Phone blocked, email blocked, no one was allowed to speak to me - not his kids, mom, anyone.  I was deleted off of his social media. I loved his kids as if they were my own. I wasn't allowed to say bye to them or txt them. He never said a word of good-bye to mine even though he was such an integral part of their life. My clothes were thrown out of his house that evening. His life was completely sanitize of me. 

Its been 5 months. I tried everything and he will have absolutely no contact with me except for a 2-day period a few weeks ago. He got drunk and sent me a bizarre txt from a weird number that said:

I loved you so much. I miss you desperately.
You cheated on me, you never loved me, you wore sweats to my house and didn't wear make up the last few weeks, you bought me clothes, you were on antibiotics, you never thought I was good enough, you slept with other men,  -- all of these indicate you never loved me because you have a serious personality called NPD and you were never capable of true love, it was all fake - this is "ALL YOU. 100% YOUR FAULT." FU I hope you die and suffer in life. I begged again and no response.

That was it. Meanwhile, my heart is breaking. I hurt him so much by telling him its over. I should have known those words would kill him. Who does that? I must have BPD or NPD or something.

I think I have been split black. Can someone give me guidance bec no therapist has been able to get through to me. I am blaming myself for his loss and feel like if I just kept my anger under control, continued to validate his feelings, and reassured him and instilled security in him - I wouldn't be here today grieving. Insecurity aside, he was amazing to me and gave me the best 2 years of my life. I don't want to live without him but I think I am dead to him.

The thought that I will never see him again, never be able to say good-bye to him or his kids is killing me. I never got any closure and he won't allow me in to even speak to him.

Any help or advice is appreciated it. Sorry this is so long.

Hi kim2017,

Leaving aside discussing his behaviors within the relationship for now,  I hear that you are getting and searching for answers.  I'm sorry about his kids,  that must be so tough to be cut off from them... .


Were any of these things true?

By what you wrote, it doesn't even sound like you telegraphed any hints of these things.  It sounds like you still love him,  yes?

I won't say "forgive yourself" for calling it off.  That's between you and you.  What I will say is that I see that you reacted out of anger and frustration, which to me seems understandable given the level of accusations. This would cause stress to anybody.  I won't even address the NPD armchair Dx (we have the DSM criteria linked on this site). Couples fight.  Couples even break up,  and resolve their differences or not.  Even from the intro you wrote,  it sounds like you have a good sense of who you are, even through your hurt.  


From what you wrote, I'd say being angry was a natural response.  If you think back,  was your outburst the result of pent up feelings from a history of he behaving like he did? For every emotion there is a need,  even the emotion of anger.  Looking back,  what did you need?

We talk here a lot about validation,  and it seems like you've read up on it.  I think,  however,  the hardest thing members here struggle with is learning to validate ourselves.  What do you think?

Turkish

Oh K2017, I am so sorry you are going through such a sad, traumatic experience. I can't imagine how I would feel to be treated in such a manner. My heart goes out to you.

Many of us are here because of similar experiences during and after relationships with people having characteristics like you describe. Hopefully by reading and seeing the similarities other people share you can begin to come to some understanding of what happened. I have been surprised by fantastic accusations of infidelity and frightening rage as well and I know how confusing and sad the aftermath is. Try to stay centered and focus on yourself. You can't change him so why not look inward and give yourself some care? Also trust yourself that you did the best you could in the moment. Nobody deserves to be attacked and accused. You should be loved and trusted.

Take some time to grieve, but also take some time to grow. Let the the feelings and thoughts come, acknowledge them, and let them go. Realize when you're ruminating and gently move on. Step by step, you will get through this.

Keep reading and posting. It helps to let it out. And there are good people here.
Stay strong,
RP

Thank you for your comments and feedbacks. Nothing is helping - no amount of therapy, reading, reflecting is helping me come to terms with this loss so I believe this forum will.

Turkish, in retrospect, I believe I was not sophisticated or experienced enough to recognize that he was so sensitive to all of my behaviors. I was faithful and loyal to him but because of his past experiences, he needed more assurance than I was giving him. I thought telling him I loved him, showing him, bringing him around my kids, family, social media was enough. It wasn't.

I didn't understand the concept of validation until after we broke up. He would repeatedly come to me and tell me his feelings and was looking for me to validate them (sometimes for hours) and I just didn't understand how. I kept presenting facts to explain to him that his feelings were not legitimate. For example "but why do you feel insecure. You know I've been sick and can't leave the house to be with you." I tried but I wasn't well read enough on this to understand. We went to therapy together but only once. We broke up a few days after. Given time, I would have but we just didn't get there.

I don't know why I burst out like that. Maybe I have BPD? I've been to 3 therapists who tell me I don't but no normal person says "its over" and expects the other person to know its just an invitation to negotiate. My parents say that all the time and for 50 years have worked through it. I wasn't raised to bail on a relationship but my words hurt him deeply. He says he vomited all night.

I never looked at another man while I was with him. In his defense, I am very friendly, social, and have a flirtatious personality. While he loved it, he felt threatened by it. I was happy and felt and dressed sexy because of him. He thought it was to seek attention from other men.

I would go shopping and every time I bought myself something, I bought him and his kids as well. I was doing it out of love for him. He interpreted it as "she thinks I'm ugly and she's molding me into who she wants me to be."

I was sick for a month and on antibiotics. He said I took antibiotics because I was with other men. I took him all my medical records, offered to take a polygraph test, I begged. All he said was "narcissists like you know how to beat a polygraph."

I believe he is suffering as much as I am. Had I known then what I know now, I would have acted entirely different. I didnt recognize his needs and there were aspects of him I was completely unaware of.

If I had the opportunity, I know I can give him the world of love and validation that he needs but he is just not willing. He says I am toxic for him, I am a manipulator, that I never truly loved him and just gave him love so I can control him. However, before the hang up I was Ms. Perfect and he didn't complain about me. All of a sudden I was this horrible person.


He believes the fact that I hung up the phone in anger is proof of my infidelity. I asked him if I was so bad why is he hurting so much after 5 months and he says he cant get over me. That he cries day and night and that I destroyed him.

So I am left with the guilt of inflicting so much pain on someone I loved so much. I just was unaware and there is no second changes with him. Its like I am dead to him.

The couple's counselor my ex abandoned me to assured me I had no PD. He only noted an ICD-10 Dx of temporary anxiety on the receipts so I could get reimbursed through Flex Spending. I even played devil's advocate twice, "she says I have something wrong with me,  such as... ." He got frustrated with me.  Long story short, I stopped adding the costs up north of  $7,000. At one point,  he telegraphed, "why are you still here?" After a while,  I got what I could get. I had one therapist. Though I did argue, at a certain point, I felt like I was trying to validate that which was not validateable; I had to find it for myself.  You had 3 therapists. Can you accept what they are assuring you about? If not,  why?

"He is just not willing."

That's on him.  Only he is responsible for his feelings,  not you. 

It sounds to me like you did all you could and more, you went above and beyond.
We have all been there, nothing is ever good enough for them, once that perfect period is over their mask falls off.
You sound like a really great person, the problem wasn't and isn't you.
So you lost it and said something you regret, we all have, I know I did.
You are human and humans can only take so much, eventually frustration of flogging a dead horse takes over.
It hurts to lose someone you love, I know and it's been 50 weeks now,I'm just starting to realise it was her and not me.
I wouldn't have said what I did if she hadn't have driven me insane with her actions.

My ex was berating and belittling me in the car over drama that was avoidable. It had been building up within me.  I turned to her and yelled into her face,  "EFF [translated] I HATE YOU!"

Our kids were in the back seats.  Then S3 started crying. Then D1 didn't react that I could tell. I felt horribly, but it had been building up within me.  I apologized the same hour.  She never did.  Within two months she started cheating,  but it had been building up on both of our sides.

Even 3.5 years of being here and working through it,  struggling as you are,  "what if I had validated better?" I realized that no one is responsible for our feelings but us,  I own what I own,  and so does she.  This is hard to grasp,  so I suggest giving yourself time and keep posting to work through this.  There are no easy answers or quick fixes, such as, "he was nuts,  run!" Embrace your feelings wherever you are at.  Healing is a journey.  Questioning yourself is ok.  It demonstrates self-awareness.

I do not think you have a personality disorder, he probably has some borderline traits. Dont blame yourself, your responsive on his attack is very normal. His attack isnt, I hope you will not keep blaming yourself

Hey kim,
I told my ex "it's over" and I packed up my stuff and left. I did that as a way to say "show me you love me!" Quite unhealthy I know. But communication of what I needed from a relationship wasn't working. So it was the only thing I knew.

Part of me knows though that it wasn't just a test. It was the part of my brain that knew I had to get out for my own sanity. So don't beat yourself up.

It does seem like you had the cards in this relationship though so to speak. Which could explain the feelings as caretaker of him and why it's hurting so much. I never had the cards. I'd threaten to leave and she'd say "ok" until I apologized for hurting her .

Thank you everyone for your responses. What is hard to get over is that during the relationship, he was near perfect. The monitoring didn't bother me that much. That evening I blew up because I wanted him to feel secure and he wasn't - no matter what. The person he accused me of was so far fetched. He even admitted he knew I would never cheat on him with someone like that.

I know what really hurt him was the its over part. When I said that, and abandoned him, all of his wounds came out.

The thing is he was married for over 18 years. While he said "my wife never loved me" and "she would rather work than be with me" and "she cheated on me" - I feel like a complete failure for not sustaining the relationship longer than 2 years.

To say we had a bond and we loved each other is an understatement. I know, as I am tying this, he still loves me. I know we are both suffering without each other and it will be hard to replace what we had. Even in the heat of his anger he repeatedly said that. He knows in his heart I didn't cheat. He's just looking for ways to justify the break up because what I did hurt him so much. Its not rational.

Based on what I am reading, I've heard sometimes when the pain dies down they return. I am not sure if this is true. I will continue to work on myself but I am not sure I have it in me to go find someone else as long as I continue to hold feelings for him.

He also repeatedly says he is sure I have NPD. That the only reason I want him back is to hurt him and that "its part of the disorder." I am not sure how he's qualified to make that diagnosis. I said to him if that's true, I promise to go get treatment with whomever he selects. Of course the only answer I got was an "FU." Those words never came out of his mouth during the 2 years we were together. Now, that's the basic response to almost anything I said.

This is all during the temporary 2 days he decided to communicate with me via text. After that I was back to be being discarded.

Is any of this normal?

This is NOT you. I have posted this on another newbie's thread asking if there was anything they could have done; but just to reiterate, the answer is a resounding NO. He doesn't sound as if he has 'some BPD traits' to me, he sounds pretty far up the scale to me. I can assure you, this was a ticking time bomb and was going to happen at some point - regardless of what you said or did, at some point, this disordered way of thinking was going to manifest itself.

BPD  is by its very nature an incredibly controlling disorder, it was only when a male friend pointed out to me that everything my ex was doing to me was all about control that I started to see this. It so easily escalates  before we know it, as does physical abuse in those relationships; and it's so insipid we don't even realise it happening. Not necessarily control of us, the partner, but over every aspect of the relationship. It sounds as though you went well above and beyond anything that anyone could hope for from a lover - and of course, it was reciprocated - but only to a point, and sadly, you have found that point. Ask yourself this; if any one of your friends or children or siblings or colleagues told you that they had a partner who had installed a camera over their door (?) or was monitoring their calls, what would you say to them? What would you think? You had nothing to hide, and I get that, but that doesn't mean you have to be under 24 hour surveillance to prove yourself. That is just... .insane. Can you see the control being exercised there? Do you think that if you had indeed done things differently and you were still together, do you think this control would have eased off? Or in fact escalated?

The analogy of a mask is a very good one and one I have had others who've fallen foul of my own ex use to describe him.  That they lifted the mask revealing a big big problem.  We're not supposed to see under the mask, but in ending things with your bf and making his very worst fear a reality, his has come flying off. Of course most of us would know that someone saying 'it's over' in a fit of pique were just saying that and need to cool off... .but we're not talking about someone who thinks along the same planes as you or I. He went straight into self defence and self protection mode. The mask was being worn to keep you close to him, but with rejection comes an end to that pretence, I think. I am not saying for one second that he didn't love you by the way; the feelings were real. I am saying that he went into 'fight or flight' mode. And now you've seen what's underneath you have to be eradicated... .sanitized... .as you put it. For now, that is.

It sounds to me very much as if you have been painted black, and I am afraid you will just have to ride it out. BPD  is an incredibly complex disorder and it is beyond your control. You can control what you do and how you spend your time, and what you do with your feelings. Try as we might, there is no begging and pleading with a BPD ex when they are not receptive to hearing it. But just as you can be painted black, you can be painted white. Prepare yourself, because there is every chance this could happen, in the blink of an eye and with no warning. Read on here as much as you can.  I always refer to 'feeding the BPD monster' ... .as we have established that your (ex) bf is incredibly controlling, may I suggest that you stop feeding the control monster with immediate effect. Every time you beg or plead, you are giving him control of the r/s and your feelings. It is SO hard but you need to effectively turn the other cheek. Put your own mask on and pretend this isn't hurting. It's so so hard but it gets easier. I've been wearing mine for over a year in public. Fake it until we make it. It does get better I promise you.

And just remember this is absolutely nothing to do with anything you did or said or deserved. It is everything to do with a serious disorder that your ex suffers from.

BTW

I meant to say, he is projecting on to you. It's not you with the PD, it's him, and I suspect he knows it. For him to even be referencing PDs means he has been reading or researching them... .what does that tell you?  Please don't say you'll go and get a therapist to deal with 'your' PD.  It's not you who installed CCTV on your partner, or made up fake accusations, or at the click of a finger wiped out an entire fairy tale romance. He did. The problem is him - please don't let him convince you otherwise.

The other things he has accused you of are the things he fears. You know they are untruths, so there is no case to answer except to yourself.

My own ex is a prolific drinker, and even calls himself an alcoholic. Yet in one nasty gram text from him because I had upset him with something I'd said to someone, and that night I had been drinking, he had the audacity to tell me to 'drink less'. ME drink less. What a hoot.   

Many of us here had similar experiences to you in that in the blink of an eye, we went from being loved and adored to effectively being dirt on our lover's shoe. It happened that quickly. The day it happened to me, my then bf seemed more in love with me than ever, singing to me, holding my hand and so so happy. During a minor, minor discussion over lunch, the darkness clouded over him. His princess was turning into a frog, it seemed, by not being perfect, or by ruining our day. Just 4 hours after he'd picked me up, I was driven home in total silence and disgrace. He couldn't even look at me and 3 days later, finished with by text after 3 days of being ignored.

I was recycled some weeks and weeks later; and he's been in and out of my life ever since. But he's never quite loved me as much as he did that first time and during the recycle. It is almost exactly as if something 'ripped' in his brain... .and that was it. I can pinpoint the moment it happened.  And yes, I could like you have said or done things differently. But all that would have bought me was time. The rip was always going to happen, I promise you. Just on a different day and due to different words or actions.  And no one, no one, can anticipate what it will be that causes it... .it's not you. It's him.

kim2017,

I'm very sorry for what you are dealing with. Having endured such a painful and abrupt ending, particularly given the relationship you had with his children, must be very very hard.  

My exbf (together about 8 years) was diagnosed with BPD, NPD and a smattering of APD traits.  His calling card throughout the relationship was the kind of accusatory, paranoid ideation that your person displayed as well.  I certainly wasn't good at validation AT ALL for much of our relationship.  I didn't understand his issues as well as I needed to (my understanding was very "textbook" and I would usually get completely overwhelmed with anger and fear (he was very threatening) after hours and hours of unfounded accusations.  I often felt that our relationship was a police interrogation.  Like you, I was faithful to him, and I spent much time reassuring him in every way.  I would show him receipts of what I had bought when I was out shopping and he was accusing me of meeting men, I would take pictures of parking lots and dentists offices, etc., when I had appointments and he was accusing me of hooking up with an affair partner.  One thing I only started to realize years into it was that THIS WAS EMOTIONAL ABUSE.  And your partner, from what you described, was subjecting you to emotional abuse as well.

I know you are feeling tremendous guilt about not validating enough, I still feel that at times as well.  I broke up with my ex in December and literally every DAY he has been begging me to come back and I have tried to be so resolute, because I know that despite his promises he would begin acting in an emotionally (and verbally) abusive way once again.

Please ask yourself if you really WANT to have a relationship where you have to justify every little thing you do.  I couldn't wear perfume going to work because that meant I was looking for men.  I couldn't engage in consulting activities or attend professional conferences (I'm a college professor) because I was just seeking men.  He even freaked out when I smiled and thanked waiters in restaurants for good service, because I was of course planning on adding them to my stable of partners.  

I don't think people in normal relationships have to deal with that type of justification and insecurity (I was married for nearly 30 years and never ONCE did anything like this come up).  A normally functioning human being should NOT be expected to validate their partner for hours a day!  Again, both you and I were in emotionally abusive relationships, and it would very likely not have improved.

I understand how hard this is, and I'm still emotionally enmeshed with my ex as well.  Literally every day is a battle for me NOT to go back and give in to his pleas.  But through therapy and honestly through common sense (which I'm sure you have in abundance as well!) I know that the needs he displayed were byproducts of his disorder(s) and NOT any fault of mine. All the validation and understanding in the would not have helped.   Please take care and take advantage of all the excellent advice the experienced members on here are giving.  This is an amazing board and you will feel understood and accepted no matter where in the process you find yourself, and it is definitely NOT a linear process in any way.

Hi kim2017, your story is someway similar to mine. The 2.5 best years of my life were those with my exgfBPD.
The best thing you can do it's detach and let go. It will be painful, especially in the beginning.
You should read on board and tools on site, them are very helpful. Spend a lot of time on this site so you can understand what happened and spend time also out with friends, family, for yourself. Concentrate on something else.
It will be better with time!

It's very hard to detach from the strong drug addiction of mirroring, unluckily theme can't sustain it in long term with anybody. The disorder is very strong and you can't cure it. There are no happy ending with theme.
 

Hi Kim2017,

Your experience with your ex has brought back so much of what I experienced with my exBPDbf.  He was EXTREMELY paranoid and suspicious.  I divulged passwords, sent the pictures of where I was, gave the explanations, placated him, the lot.  I had torrents of texts all day long and if I didn't reply instantly (even when he KNEW I was in appointments or other situations where it would be impossible to respond) they would get increasingly demanding, emotionally charged, accusatory and frankly deranged.  He would frequently get to the level of threats of (or actual) self harm or suicide attempts.  No amount of 'talking him down' or validation worked to diffuse him once he went over to the dark side, as I called it.  I even named the dark controlling aspects of his character and the emotional dysregulation by another name, to try to separate it out from the man I knew and loved deeply.  The awful vile things he would accuse me of, and names he would call me, the way he would insult me and eventually physically attack me, along with my futile efforts to 'manage his behaviour and keep him in the light' wore me down to a mere shadow of myself.  I was drained, exhausted, depressed and fearful of his rages and the damage he did - to me, my property and himself, as well as damaged relationships with friends and family through his isolation tactics.  It is abuse Kim.  I know this has already been said but I feel it's important to reiterate so that we recognise it for what it is.  Just because this person has a mental illness it does NOT make this behaviour OK.

I have since learned that there comes a point - it could be ANYTHING - that a pwBPD realises we are mere humans, and not the perfect creatures they fantasise that we are at the outset.  That we have flaws and then that is it.  We are split black and there is no going back from that point.  Things are never the same.  We are off our pedestals and can't ever permanently climb back onto them, no matter how hard we try.  I too was projected onto with his diagnosis.  He claimed it was ME who had BPD, that I was also Bipolar (he had met an acquaintance with this condition) and narcissistic.  Look at your behaviours and look at his before you question yourself.

Regards the painting black; My ex used to say that once a seed is planted in his head it grows.  I think that's a good way to express it.  He was very self aware.  Which is what makes the behaviours he chose worse frankly.  He knew they were unacceptable just as he knew what drove them.  He was fully aware he was paranoid and could explain it based on past experiences.  Thing is, how many of their past experiences were in reality skewed by their wonky interpretation and the same paranoia and abandonment issues?  The things we heard about their previous relationships may well have been creations of their own imagination.  I know there are often recycles, yet from what I understand once we've fallen from grace the doubt is ever present, like a seed growing quietly into a thorny pain inflicting tree.

I am now getting support as a domestic abuse victim and attending a personal development programme which covers all the signs and behaviours of a perpetrator.  He fits the mould entirely.  It's all about power and control.  I read somewhere that 60% of BPD sufferers are physically violent.  It was 6 months before he laid his hands on me and I'd had heaps of emotional abuse before that.  There is a fine line and once that is crossed... . 

So ask yourself if it really is such an ideal relationship if you're constantly on guard for the next accusation, walking on eggshells and justifying your every move?  Being in that situation can prove to be dangerous, not just for your mental and emotional health, for your relationships, potentially your work life but also physically.  I don't wish to scare anyone but this is a reality and one we need to be well aware of.  I've been open about what happened with my ex and now have people around me cheering on my recovery.

At the same time I readily join others in saying that I still have a deep love for the man I met.  The man I always thought I could rescue from his pain.  It hurt so badly to 'fail' yet I must accept it was never my job.  Nobody can help him but the professionals and for that he has to want to engage and commit to long term therapy.  It's easier for him to crash from one saviour to the next until they are burned out and have nothing left to give.  It's hard for my heart to bear despite my head knowing better.  Both of us have endured such pain through parting and it continues - I miss him every day - however it is easing gradually through turning my attention to dealing with my own issues, of which there are plenty - not least the reasons why I engaged in such a destructive relationship and allowed it to go on.  I feel everything in life happens for a reason and it's up to us to find the lesson in it and learn from it.  So I feel blessed for having had such a passionate love and for all of the bad things that manifested from that too.  I am coming out stronger and wiser.  Don't get me wrong.  I have my dark moments and seeing him yesterday for the first time was one of them.  However I've survived that and now know that I can.  My anxiety shot up as expected and my heart hurt like hell but I coped so that's a plus... .

I've been waving the flag about this article as it has helped me loads from early on by explaining the beliefs we can have that hold back our recovery so I'll drop the link again in case you haven't yet read it.  It's pure gold.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality (https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality)

Keep posting and sorry for my long rambly reply!  The floodgates really opened... .

Love and light x



 

 

 

This sort of happened to me... .my x also,said that he thought I would leave and was only staying with him because I was afraid I wouldn't find anyonelse ... then he would say that he always hurts me... .any thing I would bring up he would see it as I was hurt... .I told him only time I'm hurt is when ur dump me.d... like u I made a horrible mistake and after he acted odd and dropped me home early one nite ... .I asked for space,... the next day I reached out to him and he dumped me coldly... .I reacted and he threatened to get a restraining order then said let's go in peace... .
I will always regret not answering the phone to him and choosing to write and email, but in my defense he would ignore my calls while he was like this... .so I sent an email and next nite I have a cop banging on my door and I'm served... .this after he told me let's go in peace and he still feels for me and sorry I hurt

I'm cut cold... .can't even talk to him... it's like he's dead. 

Hi all; especially Harley Quinn

It is so fascinating to see some of the recurrent themes that play out through all of our stories on these boards. Have you noticed how many times the words 'dark' and 'darkness' have been used?  It jumps out at me for the simple reason that this the exact description that my (undiagnosed as far as I am aware) ex used.  I know many of you will know this, but for those of you who don't, my ex locked me in a toilet with him last year after 6 months of horrendous ST and ghosting.  It's ok it wasn't scary or violent or anything it was because he wanted a major heart to heart on a night out.

Anyway out of the many massively emotional and heart wrenching things that were said during that hour and something he suddenly blurted out the following (and I apologise to those who have seen this before but:)

"When I was with you I enjoyed every minute; I was so happy.  But then the darkness took over my brain.  There's no guilt. No guilt."

(By which he meant fault on my part, English is not his 1st language.)

The darkness.
 
Isn't that interesting?  That this same word should keep coming up. Maybe it does feel like a darkness that creeps up and takes over the brain. My ex is also very self aware, high functioning and highly intelligent. He drowns his BPD and self hatred in gallons of alcohol... .and now as I have found out, coke. The alcohol is the real medication of choice though.

He also in a previous conversation during our recycle about 7 months before, had told me in a text, again quite out of the blue that:

"My brain is injured darling."

He said he was very glad he had me, he hoped I could heal him, he needed me.  

When I saw him the next time I asked him to tell me what he had meant and he said he had been joking. I wasn't having any of it and said, no, come on tell me, I love you very much and I'm here for you. To which he shot out of his chair and said he couldn't even explain it to himself.   He discarded me for a second time the next week.

Over the course of the 2 years I've known him, he has told me that I should forget him and hate him, that he doesn't deserve me because of how he's treated me (correct) that 'it's complex'. That he's 'surviving'.

It's been him who has done all the dumping, running away, discarding, ST, and ghosting btw. The painting me black, white and back and forth again.

But it's this description of the darkness above all that gets my attention. My ex knows there is something very wrong with him... .he just doesn't know what it is and that's the best description he can give, I suppose.

Yet again I reiterate, how terribly sad for all of us, BPD and nons alike.

Thank you everyone on this message board. The time you have spent responding means so much to me and has been very comforting.

During the course of our relationship, it was pretty clear he had some abandonment issues. I am not sure to what extent they were - his perceptions? Neglect? Physical abuse? It was a repeated theme. "My mom was a horrible mom. She left me for months with caretakers", "she loves my sister more than me." -- on and on when it was pretty clear his mom loved him.

His career was focused on helping abused children. He had a passion for that and that was an aspect of him I fell in love with. I loved him for dedicating his life and career to helping others.

That night I hung up on him, he said he was vomiting all night to the point his kids were going to call 911. Meanwhile, I was so clueless, I was out and about buying sunscreen for our trip - thinking its just an argument and we will resolve it. We loved each other, were dedicated to each other, and he had assured me there is nothing we couldn't over come. I messed up and am aware.

But the monster that was brewing inside was something I would never be prepared for. The man that would shed tears if I was hurt looked like he was going to kill me. In fact he said "if there were no cameras here, I would hurt you." I don't think he would, but he sure looked angry enough to.

What was even stranger to me was the dialogue 5 months later when sent me a bizarre text late at night. It started with "why did you do this to me? Why did you cheat on me? You killed me."

And if I responded with anything loving like "I love you. I would never cheat on you." His reply would only be:

 "stop it. stop. stop tying to hurt me. why do you want to hurt me. stop."  I don't understand. Could it be that he now thinks I am the person that hurt him in the past? Its just so weird!

How was there so much pain inside him and how did I miss that during the 2 years we were together?

The part that is killing me is the guilt. This man was clearly hurt in his past. I didn't recognize it and now I have inflicted so much pain on him and I never meant to. He has shut me out like I am dead to him.

I also feel like a complete failure. How did he have a girlfriend for 13 years and a wife for almost 18? Why am I the only person who could not sustain a relationship with him? What if I didn't hang up the phone that night?

Small detail I left out: just recently I found out he was married while we were together. His divorce records indicate that he met me, filed for divorce a months later, and completed the divorce 1.5 later. He seemed so honest and normal, I never thought of checking his divorce records. When we met, he told me he was divorced for over a year and his wife abandoned the kids. A big lie that I didn't discover until after be painted me black.

.

This is not healthy,  even given heightened emotions during a breakup. In fact,  it's very cybernetic concerning.  I'm glad you are safe now.  

A senior member here once said, addressing Detachers like us,  "no one is coming to rescue is."

Many of us in our relationships were Rescuers. As my therapist said,  there's nothing wrong with being a Rescuer. However, there are clear boundaries which shouldn't be crossed. Physical threats are one of them.  He needs to rescue himself.  You need to be safe.  

How are you doing Kim?

Hi kim


The above is most likely projection; sadly what he accuses you of doing is what he has most likely done.


No you don't, the fact that you are questioning if you have BPD proves you don't; a PWBPD can't accept a slight criticism, so they never can admit to possibly having a mental illness. Caring about hurting him, instead of creating your own reality, also goes against BPD.


We will not get closure from a PWBPD, sadly they live in a reality based on their emotion of the moment and aren't capable of providing the closure we desire. You can give yourself closure by realizing you are a kind, caring, empathetic person who loved someone with a mental illness that prevented the relationship you desired once you got too close.

Some thoughts from my own r/s, having ended about 3 years ago. I was slow to realize some things:

1. I felt responsible for her feelings. If she was feeling badly, it was my responsibility to "fix" it. While a certain amount of emotional interdependence in a relationship is normal and healthy, this becomes a downward spiral into a black hole of self torment when you are trying to do this for someone who has mental health issues - because nothing you do can ever "fix" their instability.

2. It took years for me to recognize how stressed I was from having to bear the burden of her neediness. I'm not happy to say that this stress at times turned me into someone that I didn't want to be. When I look back on it now it was because her child-like neediness lead me to take on the role of "parent". That's not just her fault; it's my fault too. But it was a super-unhealthy relationship dynamic and, as time wore on, felt like a nearly unbearable burden.

3. No matter what I said or did, she was never reassured; there was some kind of lack within her that I could never reach. I tried, though. I sure did try.

The odd text message he sent you should help you realize; he is not really talking to you. You may very well represent a person from his past. None of this is about you. And you can't fix him.

Sometimes I miss my ex; the good parts. The beginning of the r/s before everything went to hell. But the truth is that I'd be miserable within a day if we ever got back together. Most of the time the r/s made me feel as though I was in chains - even though I loved her.

Everything you wrote is spot on with my ex as well. When I wasn't in a great mood, or just wanted to recharge my batteries as I'm an introvert she always thought it was about her. I had to be "on", funny, happy 100% of the time around her.

But this phrase I quoted. You just knocked me back into reality for today. It's true. She used to mention that her once ex called her "exhausting". Well, as much as I loved her, she really was. And I can never be with her again being removed from it for so long now. It was a full time job being her parent. I take ownership over enabling that as well. But at the end when I put my foot down and realized that it wasn't a partnership, and it needed to be one is when I left.

Thank you for this. I don't want to hijack this thread but I had a couple bad hours just now with sadness. This put me back on track.  

JHKbuzz,

The thing is I was very happy when I was with him. This thing spiraled almost overnight. Yes, I had to reassure frequently, but that was such a small part of our relationship. The rest was happy, full of love, and beautiful.

I was completely blindsided. That morning he said to me "I am counting the minutes to be alone with you on our trip." That evening, I was discarded like I never existed before.

So remembering the bad times is hard. I have to keep reading these posts over and over again until it sinks in. It does for about an hour and then the guilt of "if I only ... ." kicks in.

If I understood he had this disorder, I am certain I could have worked around it or given I know how much he loved me, I could have asked him to seek some help.

In fact, a few weeks before this happened, his complaints about his mother was more frequent. I said to myself, something is wrong. Before we get married, I have to figure out why he has this disdain for a woman who seems so loving towards him.

It was just weird. She would give him so much love in front of me and all he would say is "she hates me." I just didn't get it.

Something must have happened. I have no idea what. He has dedicated his life to people who have been abused through so much charity work but he can't look within.

All he ever told me was "my mom would leave me with nannies all the time. She neglected me and travelled the world while I was home."

Is that enough for BPD? I wonder if there was something more. I wish I could help him.

Despite his evil side and the mask falling off, I miss him and there is a huge void that I wonder will ever get filled again.

Kim,

I'm sorry you are in so much pain. A lot of your story resonates with me - my ex was also extremely paranoid and controlling and would repeatedly accuse me of cheating on him, along with all sorts of increasingly bizarre things. He was also adamant that everyone else in his life was abusive or had treated him unfairly. And like you, when it ended I felt a lot of guilt for having contributed to his pain - I still remember how sick and miserable I felt when he screamed, "You ruined me!" and told me that he was going to kill himself because of me. "But before that I'll have a good life, just to spite you." On one level I registered that he was saying very manipulative things, but on another I sincerely thought that I had added to his pain by not being attentive enough to his needs, not saying the right things, etc. I wished I could turn the clock back and redo things. "If only... ."

Now I know that no matter what I did, sooner or later his destructive behaviour was going to bring the relationship down. It is impossible for someone with that kind of paranoia to sustain a relationship. Impossible. The demand for reassurance just grows and grows until it's too big to contain. Secondly, he was already in terrible pain and it would not have been possible for me to take it away from him. If mental health problems were that easy to cure, if one person could just magic away their partner's difficulties, no one would be mentally ill. It wasn't within your power to stop your ex from hurting. You say that you feel like it's your fault because he had long-term relationships before - but as the paragraph you added later shows, he was lying to you about those relationships. Who knows how many other lies he told you about them? How many things he didn't say? It's highly unlikely that he would have told you things that put him in a negative light, and it's also highly unlikely that his controlling behaviour was new - he was probably monitoring his other partners in exactly the same ways, and who knows what else they had to submit to in order to stay with him. For all you know he was abusing a partner who simply felt too trapped to get out, not living in paradise. And if it had been paradise, why would it have ended?

The penultimate message I received from my ex contained graphic fantasies about different ways he could murder me. Would you say to me or to any other person who had experienced such a thing that they were probably narcissistic and obviously had caused pain to their poor ex? Now think back to the menacing remark your ex made to you about the cameras, and the rage he showed you then. Are you really going to ask yourself if you have NPD and blame yourself for not making his life easier? His threats and damaging behaviour are his problem, no matter what pain is driving them; the only thing you need to be worrying about is your own recovery from their impact on you.

Balletomane,

Did your relationship end abruptly too? Did you have red flags? I had very few and was caught completely off guard.

This is an affluent man with multiple graduate degrees, steady job, very seemingly normal also affluent family. He had an incredible relationship with kids. He had was a volunteer on the suicide hotline. Incredibly generous in so many aspects of his life. Yes he was a bit insecure but he kept his jealousy under wraps.

Dont you think if we actually got married and he saw me every day, knew where I was all throughout the day, he would be more reassured?

Keep in mind that while I am a liberal, he was a pro-gun, extremely politically conservative. As he was raging on me, all I kept thinking was if this happened at his house, he had a closet full of shot guns to use on me and a rifle next to his bed. Living in a secure complex, in an extremely safe and upscale neighborhood wasn't enough. Having the alarm on all day wasn't enough. He needed a gun next to his bed. Paranoid? I attributed it to his job which required him to see very dark things every single day - he worked with all kids of abuse victims and I was so proud of him for that.

Mr. Kindness all of a sudden tells me if there were no cameras, he would have hurt me. The only contact he had with me post break up was all about how he wished I would die and suffer in life.

He called me the next day and begun the conversation with "I have to find peace because I think about hurting you every day."

Of course, it still doesn't register. I can't see him ever hurting me.

kim2017,

I'm reminded of a quote by Maya Angelou, "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.”

Over a decade ago,  a female friend gave me this book,  see our review and discussion here:

The Gift of Fear - Gavin De Becker (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=101561.0;all)

From what I remember, his main thesis was,  trust your gut. 

He gave many examples of horrible crimes where those who knew the perpetrators initially said things like,  "we were shocked! He was such a nice guy." When digging deeper in subsequent interviews,  however,  it was found that the respondents admitted to having doubts and seeing red flags, but they denied these feelings; effectively,  not trusting their gut reactions. I'm encouraging you to read the book (it's short) to get some insight from a world renound security expert.

Personally, I own many firearms.  I've spent money getting training.  It's never crossed my mind, however,  to ever talk like that to another human being.  I'm horrified to even consider it. 

If you were my sister,  say, or a friend,  I'd be worried enough to intervene (not to do violence, but to sit down with you and discuss a safety plan). Even though I'm just some guy on the Internet,  I'm still worried enough about your personal safety to bring this up.

Kim,

What you're going through is painful, I know as I am going through something similar.  Everything you described regarding the need to reassure him is eerily similar to what I went through with my wife for 17 years.  I use to say to myself during one of her insecure moments, "you need more reassurance than a dog" (if you understand dog training). 

There are many things you mentioned to indicate he has BPD traits.


This is how most BPD relationships begin.  With BPD idealization... .putting you on a pedestal.  They are usually very intense.  That's part of their psyche.  Once they find a target, their goal is to get you to fall in love. This is sub conscience, but this is to satisfy their need to be loved and avoid abandonment. 

You had many comments about him not feeling loved and that you were going to leave, such as:


Borderlines never fell loved enough.  In my own personal situation, I was a good husband to my wife by any measure.  I did things that any reasonable person knows are signs of deep caring for a person, yet she never felt it.  This need for reassurance, are abandonment issue, the core of BPD dysfunction. Also the comment of his family being critical of him is classic borderline as they cannot take any criticism.  As one book I read described BPD's as emotion burn victims, sensitive to the touch. The commit about his own looks and success, could be signs of someone without self esteem and poor self image, another BPD trait.

Also another statement you made stood out to me:


This doesn't happen for most people, especially a man.  If this is literally true, that he cried because you had a papercut, this is greater evidence of BPD, as this lends to high emotionality.  BPD in Europe is called Emotional Instability PD.  The name says it all.

I think you are being tough on yourself and too apologetic.  Let's put this into perspective.  If what you are saying is true, that you didn't cheat on him nor give him any reason to not trust you.  Then why was he monitoring your phone they way he was? I think some snooping in relationships is natural. I could even say that if an affair had occurred, maybe even some further monitoring may be warranted and even agreed to in order to save the relationship.  From what you are saying he had a keylogger/spy software installed on your phone. Did you do anything to deserve such treatment? Then from what you are saying is that he fabricated events that didn't happen (you sending photos at two different times to another man).  Based on that, I think most people might flip out and say something they didn't mean.  He should be apologizing to you based on the circumstances.  Your reaction sometimes happens in a relationship and a healthy response would have been for him to allow things to cool off and then try to talk to you about it.  But he just discarded you, fully cutting you off in many immature ways (avoidance, blocking you from social media, etc.)  Another sign of BPD, as it is believed that they are emotionally under-developed children in mentality. Healthy adults don't act this way, nor is it fair to treat someone you love this way. I don't think you overreacted, you set boundaries.

Sounds like he is NC right now. But if that changes, only you can decide what is best for you and what your tolerance is.  Do you want to continue to have to reassure a grown man of all of his insecurities constantly throughout your life?  Do you want to be prone to someone cutting you off and discarding you at a drop of dime based on some perceived slight?  I endured 17 years of such behavior to only suddenly be discarded by my wife and for 17 years of good deeds and can't even get her to behave like an adult and tell me what I did wrong to make her avoid all contact with me.  You only have spent two years of your life so far, maybe its a blessing in disguise this happened. 

Turkish, thank you. I think you are right in that I am naive about the potential danger.

RealizationBPD, I'm sorry you have had to endure this for 17 years. I can't imagine how difficult it must be.

As for whether I did things to warrant his behavior? In retrospect, I think I did.

He repeatedly said he felt like I was "too good" for him. He said he wanted to have a lavish wedding to "announce to the world" I was his and that he landed such a prize (I enjoyed being so wanted).

Given those statements, I should have been more careful in my personality and demeanor given I knew he was insecure. I made some mistakes.

 
By nature, I am very friendly. I like to take care of myself. My job required a lot of interaction with men and woman. Does it open doors to be friendly, dress nice, talkative, be social? Yes. Does it piss off an insecure guy? Yes.

My ex husband loved that part of me. He said he felt proud going into a room where I immediately made friends with everyone and was outgoing. This one was attracted to me for that reason but I think deep inside he was dying. I had no idea.

Not once did my ex husband monitor anything, question anything, read my emails.

Before we broke up, he bought me the sexiest outfits. I wore them for him but if some drunk guy happened to make a comment, he would get mad at me. In retrospect, I should have just been more conservative in my personality and attire if I wanted to make it work with him. I should have validated his feelings more, spent more time.

Our last weekend together, we went to a Christmas Party. I asked him what he wanted me to wear and he picked a short, white, rather skimpy outfit. I danced - with him and a few times without him with my female co-workers. His comment to me was "looks like you would have fun even if I wasn't here."

He went through my phone while I was asleep and found me talking about politics (it was during the election - everyone was talking about politics!) with a male friend who I hadn't seen in 3 years but we were friends and he knew it.

He called me and said "Ive been monitoring your phone. I've been looking up the phone numbers you have been dialing" and he started questioning me. I felt violated. Mistrusted. Earlier in the day, as I went to lunch with a female client he said "Its not just men I have to be worried about. Women like you too." So I hung up and didn't talk to him for a day.

That was it.  My hang up was confirmation that I was cheating on him. My reluctance to have sex for the 5th time in one day was confirmation that I was cheating with someone else. My buying him clothes meant he was ugly. My falling asleep at 10pm and not texting to the point my fingers hurt was because I didn't love him.

BTW is a heightened sex drive an element of BPD? Because I often wonder if he was taking something. That was just too much drive for his age.

I guess as I write this I realize how weird it really was. If only I can hold on to that for more than an hour before I blame myself for everything.

So the answer to your question is yes, I did things to make him feel insecure. I just wasn't aware.

My relationship did end abruptly - or so I thought at the time. I have a medical condition that causes painful periods and he didn't agree with how I was handling it. He thought I should just take hormonal birth control to stop the periods and got very pushy about it. (He's not a doctor or a health professional of any kind.) My doctor had already ruled this out as an option and had given me medication that I was finding very effective, so I told him I saw no need to change my treatment and the decision lay between me and my doctor. He began shrieking that I'd 'betrayed' him, that I was 'abusing' him, burst into tears, went out and got drunk, cut himself and came back to show me his self-harm cuts, threatened me with his suicide, and said all sorts of savage things about me and my abusive personality, such as, "It's a good thing you're crazy. That's the only thing that stops you from being completely evil." Then he said, "At least now I am spared the pain of calling you my girlfriend." I felt sick with shock. All this had come out of nowhere. We'd had a really lovely day together before this happened. Then, as suddenly as the storm had come, it was gone. He claimed he didn't remember any of the awful things he'd said. We continued as 'normal' (if I can call it normal - I was always terrified of the next outburst, which would often involve him getting paranoid that I was cheating on him) until he came to me one day and announced he was now in a relationship with someone else. He was perfectly calm about it, and when I started to cry, he told me, "I've had to spend most of my life alone. You'll get used to it", among various other callous things. That also hit me like a ton of bricks.

But looking back, I see the red flags were present in the relationship all the time - as they were in yours. I'd just started to see them as something normal, and I think you may have too. You say your ex was "a bit insecure." People who are a bit insecure don't install cameras outside their partners' homes, monitor their phone calls and texts, and talk about their partners as a "prize" to be paraded before the world. His behaviour to you actually constitutes stalking.

My ex was formally diagnosed with BPD and I still worried that everything that happened was my fault, because I thought he seemed "normal" elsewhere. Now I know that actually he didn't seem normal, that he was seen as a volatile and aggressive person by others. I just hadn't been aware of that at the time, because no one shared with me how they perceived him. I agree with other posters that if your ex is bringing up NPD a lot then there is a possibility that this label has been applied to him in the past. People with NPD can seem very charming and charismatic; that's part of the disorder. Of course none of us here can say for sure that he has it, but what we can say for sure is that his behaviour to you was unacceptable. If someone is stalking you like that and then talking about how they wish they could harm you, you don't need them to be mentally ill for you to be justified in feeling hurt and frightened.


I don't think getting married would have achieved anything except cemented his sense of ownership over you and his belief that he has the right to know where you were and what you were doing 24/7. Step back, and ask yourself this: if a friend of yours was in a marriage where she had to provide constant 'reassurance' like that (to a man who had threatened her with physical violence and had access to firearms, no less), would you see it as a happy marriage? A safe marriage?

I too wondered if I would have been able to stave off my ex's paranoia if I'd lived with him, because I noticed it was always worse when we'd been apart. But I know from talking to the woman he discarded me for, who did live with him for over a year, that it didn't work that way. His paranoia just got bigger. She used to enjoy walking home from work, but he got paranoid about that - he thought it was a sign that she didn't want to be with him, or that she was really taking the bus but telling him she was walking so that she could use the extra half-hour to cheat on him. So she stopped taking the walks that she enjoyed just to soothe his paranoia. His paranoia dictated her life. Would you want someone else's paranoia dictating yours?

Kim, his insecurity stems from events and experiences way before you. There likely is no amount of reassurance and allowing him to invade your space and privacy that would resolve it.

People who attempt to stay long term in such relationships don't arrive at relative stability by perfect reassurance. They survive by caring less that their BWD partner is upset. They let the BPD partner have their uncomfortable or terrible feelings, and let the BPD partner learn to regulate or soothe those feelings without undue reliance on assistance from the non partner. You can respect that someone else has very unpleasant feelings without trying to resolve those feelings for them.

I believe with the intensely controlling practices your guy had normalized and the fantasies of violence it likely was not safe for you to practice those skills in the relationship. But if you wanted to indulge in "I could have done differently," please know that the skills taught here about improving a relationship with someone with BPD are not about appeasement and never triggering the person. They are about standing still while their dysregulation erupts and subsides and not being particularly fazed by it.

That can "work" when the dysregulation consists of verbal rages (though I do question whether those can be experienced repeatedly without significant damage to the soul of the other partner), but some of the BPD folks we encounter have other behaviors that cannot just be outlasted and endured. In some cases violence, in some cases cheating, in some cases mistreatment of other loved ones/kids. Your guy has very concrete and specific control strategies, ones which you did not initially balk at or refuse because to you they were part of how much he "adored" you and his "insecurity." So you got way down the road of his plan to control your every action very fast. Backing out of that would likely change every aspect of your relationship. This is not a dynamic that could readily be managed. And in any event, managing it would entail heading the exact opposite direction that your desire for him is suggesting to you--which is to appease him even more.

You have the gift of time during this period in which he is saying he is done. Maybe he is, maybe that will shift. While he is apart from you, I hope you will work with a mental health professional and explore how his adoration was a package that got you to accept some aspects that are quite scary and stalker-ish, and how you might ensure you are less vulnerable to the adoration card in the future.

My own BPD r/ship was quite different (though I had a prior r/ship with similar control issues with a scary guy who ultimately used physical violence to try to prevent me from hurting his feelings so I deeply relate to some of the inklings your guy was displaying). But in my BPD r/ship my exwBPD was astonishingly good at making women feel super special and cherished. Eventually for reasons that don't matter to this story, I came to learn that that was a technique he used to cement loyalty to him. When our relationship advanced and I knew him better, I began to see behind the stated adoration and it came to appear almost mechanical. He knew the things to say that hit my pleasure centers and he would deploy those almost lazily. At the beginning he seemed super sincere and there is no way I could have detected it. What I saw later however made me understand more about myself than him.  There is something about me that made me incredibly susceptible to such blandishments. It made it hard to protect myself from mistreatment.  It may be worth examining why that adoration was so valuable to you that it made installing a security camera and phone spying devices seem reasonable and like something you wanted to participate in.

I was often happy with her, too. The need for reassurance (and the concomitant child-like self centeredness) grew over time. At first I found it sweet and charming - she was like a little wounded bird. Over time it became a monstrous burden - one I tried to bear because I loved her.

I also recognize your thinking - it's sort of black and white. All or nothing. I engaged in that thinking too, at the beginning. Time and distance allowed me to see the shades of gray again.


For the first year of my b/u, I wrestled with the "two sides" of her. I was sad when I thought of her "good" side; and those thoughts involved a TON of self-recrimination. But I became angry when I thought of her "bad" side and all of the really horrible things she did. But I couldn't hold both in my head at the same time; I'd go back and forth and back and forth. It took time (and therapy) to integrate it all her "sides"; to emotionally accept that someone who could appear (and often be) sweet, gentle and charming could also be capable of such terrible emotional abuse.


That "void" isn't all about him. One of the things I realized over time was that my r/s with my ex mirrored my relationship with my mother; my always anxious, often raging mother. During my childhood "I felt responsible for her feelings. If she was feeling badly, it was my responsibility to "fix" it." I repeated this dynamic with my ex. Recognizing this enabled me to take my focus off of her and put it squarely where it belonged - on me. That's when I started to take my life back.

And by the way, his "mask" didn't fall off. As the disorder progresses you increasingly see below the surface. I can remember feeling (at about year 4 of our 8 year r/s) that I had woken up next to a stranger - and was flabbergasted to discover that someone I thought I knew inside and out I never actually knew at all.

You appear to be in the "bargaining" stage of the five stages of grief. You believe that you could have bargained with the disorder in order to ensure the outcome that you wanted. You can't bargain with a disorder - that's magical thinking.

Try to put some distance between yourself and your thoughts. Verbalize if necessary. "Hmmmm... .I just told myself for the thousandth time that if I had only (fill in the blank) that we would still be together. That's interesting - it's almost as if I believe that the power to heal the r/s was solely mine. As if there weren't things that he could have done as well, especially given his r/s history. Plus I'm beating myself up again. Why do I do that?"

Much of the time we are sad because of the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves - but don't recognize that we have the power to change the story.

Thank you, JHKbuzz and Patientandclear (and everyone else) for your such helpful and insightful responses. The time you spent writing me these posts have truly helped - more than therapy, more than reading, more than anything.

Now I guess the question I have to ask, which i hope someone here can help is - what next? How do I truly learn about myself and recover from this. I am not so thrilled about traditional weekly therapy. I feel like I just talk, repeat the same things and get nowhere.

I believe I am co-dependent and have some self esteem issues.

Any recommendations as to what I can do?
What I can read that will help me understand my co-dependency more? (I have read co-dependent no more)
What I can I do to help me with the fear, that i bet so many have, that I will never find love again or be happy with anyone else again.

His "adoration" of me was a bit much. Something inside of me must have longed for it. I think before I can move on to anyone else I need to find out why I needed that in the first place. Why did I need all that attention? I keep thinking he is right and I do have NPD.

Any advice is appreciated. This group is so amazing and I believe that reading these posts have been the most helpful part of my recovery process.

Thank you again, everyone who responded to me, for taking the time to make a perfect stranger's life a little better. I am very grateful.

Kim,

This statement resonated with me:

My wife would tell me that she didn't feel worthy of me.  She would also displace her own feelings about herself on to me, as feelings I had about her.  For instance if she didn't feel good about her physical appearance, she thought I wasn't attracted to her, no matter how many times I told her opposite.  If she didn't feel intelligent, she thought I believed she was stupid.  She would go as far as to argue with me that these were things I felt about her.  When she was able to have a moment of reflection, she would admit that she was transferring those feeling of herself to me and then use them as ammunition against me.  Screwed up right?

I stilll feel you are accepting too much blame for not reassuring him.


I presume he met you while you were working that job.  Nevertheless, were you being friendly or flirtatious?  If only the former, one has to be diplomatic to achieve goals in most jobs.  Would he prefer you to be rude and standoffish.  Will that further your career?  If you can say that you weren't/had no intent of being flirtatious, then this is his problem not yours.  What you describe of your ex-husband sounds healthy and that he was secure with himself and you.  A healthy relationship should have partners that promote each other to be their best (making friends, being likable, not monitoring you).


To try to answer this question, I would say it is quite possible. The reason I say it this way is that I have spent hundreds of hours reading and watching materials about BPD, when I discovered this disorder and how it fit so closely with what I was experiencing with my wife. This particular aspect it is usually discussed from the viewpoint of the woman being the BPD. It is thought that about approx. 6% of the population has BPD and of those, 75% are women.  So it is often described that in the beginning of the relationship that the sex with a BPD is wild, intense, and for many described as some of the best sex they had in their life.  The other narrative is that as the relationship progresses that it becomes the opposite, with little sex at all, and is used as a weapon against the non-BPD, but that's another topic.  In my experience men in general naturally have a higher sex drive than women.  So when I first discovered many narratives about the beginning stage wild sex with BPD women in particular, it really struck a cord.  I met my wife at 28. I had what I thought was a pretty high sex drive, but she was the first women I had met that I felt I couldn't keep up with.  Which I can say as a guy is pretty awesome to complain about, because it is usually the opposite with women.  One day she got upset with me because she wanted to have sex for the third time that day, in a week where we had had sex two to three times a day.  At the moment, I just couldn't do it, I had no urge. So jokingly I more or less told her no and said she was a 'nympho'.  She was offended by that for years.  When our sex life cooled off and I was upset that she didn't want sex, she would go back to this event over and over and remind me how I called her a 'nympho'.  The thing is most people I know sometimes use that term in the way that I used it, as a complement--a way to indicate someones high sex drive.  However, for her it was an insult.  So to answer your question I would say yes, however, I'm a little unsure how that fits into the reversal role with the male being a BPD, since men tend to have higher sex drives and women tend to use sex as a tool to secure a relationship with a man.






 


 

I forgot to comment on something you brought up on your last post, regarding you're concern about being NPD.  Like someone else mentioned, this is interesting that your exBPD brought this up.  Sounds like he has be doing some exploration and knows theirs a problem. The question is does he think it is with you or with him?

During my exploration into my relationship problems and BPD, I have had to be honest with myself as to my problems as well.  Part of the BPD narrative is that BPD's often seek out narcissist.  When I was younger, I had some people problems and my interactions with them.  I can now admit I was responsible or at least largely responsible for the breakdown in those relationships due to my own narcissistic tendencies.  I didn't know that then and this journey has helped me reflect on that.  I was much more abrasive back then and I chalked it up to being straight forward.  What I was being was grandiose and self-centered.  

I have learned over the years how to preserve and build relationships from those mistakes, but I had no insight until this journey, that I was being a narcissist.  I find myself still being narcissistic on occasion.  Being narcissistic and being NPD are two different things however.  Remember all disorders are made up of traits. Those psychological traits are what make us up as human beings.  No one trait alone makes anyone to be classified as having a disorder.  Also everyone at times will exhibit most human traits, even negative ones.  It's the persistence and re-occurrence of a trait in one's life, combined with other traits that make someone classified as having a disorder.  So I think it is fair for you to explore your role in the relationship and as a person, in order to better yourself, no matter where that takes.  Just be careful not to blame yourself for the problems he is responsible to own.

Where to go from here?  I am still dealing with my own struggles and I'm only 5 months out from my discarding as well, so I'm sure others have more to offer. I have read/watched so much stuff over the years on BPD, however, as I became aware of the problem about four years ago. Recently I read Buddha and the Borderline, which is from the perspective of a recovered BPD.  The first couple of chapters, I thought were really helpful.  This website has helpful articles.

I can understand your reluctance for weekly therapy, but it made all the difference in the world to me. Especially helpful was my second therapist, who specializes in trauma. She saw trauma as not simply something that needed to be "talked" about, but as events that happened, were remembered by the nervous system, and "held" by the body. My therapy included lots of visualization - and movement - to try to resolve the trauma. I'm probably not explaining it very well, but it was really useful. (Here's an example: I was talking about how I was sexually molested and she pointed out that as I was talking, my right leg started to kick slightly. I noticed it after she pointed it out - but I couldn't stop it. She described it as a thwarted "flight" response - I couldn't run away when I really needed to - so my body remembers and still tries to run.)

Your co-dependent and self esteem issues come from event(s) in your past. You have to take a look at them to resolve them, and I don't know how to do that without therapy.



Nah. Don't pathologize everything. It's nice to be appreciated, adored, loved. Here's the REAL problem: your low self esteem probably blinded you to the red flags that would have sent a woman with healthier self esteem running. Having healthy self-esteem will help you recognize the flags; that's what you need to work on now.

RealizationBPI - thank you for the links. In fact a couple of
months ago I was so distraught, I called AJ Mahri and did a phone session with her. Unlike most of what I have read on this message board, she told me once I've been painted black, I will be permanently remain black and he's likely not going to look back. However I have read countless stories here where they recycle and show up out of the blue.

The previous post gave me great advice - that I have the gift of time to look within myself. BPD or not, I will never put all the blame on him. I am certain I have more than my fair share to work on and I am planning to do so - however much work it takes. I'm certain I have NPD traits, even BPD traits, low self esteem, co-dependent and whatever else may be wrong with me.

I hope to learn from this journey and from other people's experiences how I can be a better person through this.