BPDFamily.com

So to begin with, I have been making/enforcing my boundaries a lot better. My bfwBPD is not happy about this but says he loves me and wants to keep working on moving forward. Do I want this? Sometimes yes and sometimes no-as many of you on here have seen from me. I agonize over this. and now I am exhausted. After an incident last weekend, and then again last night I am twisting in the wind. I had told my daughter she could stay over my house for the holiday w/e. Plan was to stay up by my bf. He wanted to stay by me last night, and I told him no, as my D refuses to be in his presence. She was going to an all-day party and I felt the emotional mix of her feelings for him, and drinking during the day was a prescription for drama and disaster. To add to this, she had heard him speaking harshly to me Saturday night and felt I should have dumped him then. He was mad/frustrated as he was running late and I neglected to pick up a card and gift that I had said I would get. The reason I mention this is that I can't get out of my head that no matter if I am wrong about something, he does not have the right to lambast me over it. So needless to say, although I apologized, I still took a verbal beating. My daughter saw part of this and voila! In her mind another reason why I am an idiot for staying. So I calmly spoke to him last night that I can no longer tolerate his going off the rails and drama-making over every incident that arises. He of course goes on a list of all the bad I have done. And why can't I control my daughter's feelings, and I should "slam" into her that I am with him and she needs to get over it.
What bothers me terribly is also why I find it so hard to not sink to his level-I find myself loosing control and screaming back at him, hanging up on him, (I don't name-call) and pretty much falling into JADE-ing over and over. I was doing so well at NOT doing this. I am having such a hard time keeping my head lately. That is the exhaustion I suppose. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can avoid falling into this trap over and over? I have to add that last night when I decided to just go home and not be with him, he went into such a rage that he parked in my driveway to "confront" my daughter. He wanted me there to "end the nonsense" once and for all. I did not go home to this drama. Shamefully, I talked him down and went to stay with him-just to get him away from my house. This is not something I am proud of. I just felt I was protecting my daughter, myself and keeping from the complete embarrassement with the screaming and yelling. So again, I need guidance as to how I can avoid this drama, even when he is determined to create it?

OK... .  



So... .he got what he wanted.  It worked for him and it didn't work for you and your daughter.

Can you see that?  Very different that agree with it.

There is lots of other material in this post... .but this incident is by far the biggest deal... IMO.  

Can you take a minute and look at this from your daughters point of view?  What have you "taught" her about relationships?  Yes... .we are always teaching out kids... by example.

Can you take a minute and look at this from your BFs point of view?  What did you teach him about how to treat you?  What did you teach him about how to get what he wants from you?

Hang in there... .

FF

Did you tell your BF the reason he couldn't come over?  The part about the daughter not wanting to be around him?

FF

Yes bf is well aware that she wants nothing to do with him nor be in his presence.
I looked at it from D point of view. I am ashamed that I am acting like a doormat with my bf. I do not like the person she sees one bit in me in these situations. She is much stronger in her r/s's. She has and enforces boundaries, thank goodness. I can teach that but I can't seem to do it.
And I see that I have reinforced to my bf that if he throws a big enough tantrum, he gets what he wants. He can crap all over me, gaslight me into thinking I am wrong, defame my character and a whole host of other things, and I will eventually relent. Just typing all of that turns my stomach.

This is EXACTLY what he thinks, it is EXACTLY why he does it.  The only way I am aware of to get this to stop... .is for it to stop working for him... .you control that. 

FF

I understand what you are saying. I was only trying to avoid a major drama scene with my kids and bf that might end up with a "no turning back" scenario. I was afraid of what he/she might do/say in the height of their anger and frustration. Looking at it that way, I suppose I need to let everyone suffer the consequences of their own actions instead of :
1. trying to shield my daughter from bf's anger
2. trying to keep my son from going off the handle and becoming aggressive
3. trying to keep my bf from sealing his own fate
4. trying to keep myself from being put on the spot to "pick a side" in the heat of battle.

It all sounds so ridiculous.

I know it can be hard to see when in the FOG; that's why it's valuable to bring these stories here.

The part quoted above is an  red-flag  enormous red flag. red-flag

I am extremely concerned for your safety and your daughter's safety.

Here's a suggestion for the next time this happens: call the police to have him removed from your property.

Calling the police is exactly what my D would do if he created a scene at my door or in the yard. I know this, and it is the logical thing to do. I just never pictured myself as ever having to do that. It is very hard to think of what would ensue if it came to that. However, if he rages and goes to physically touch anyone? that is a far worse issue. I hate the thought of doing that to him, but you are absolutely right that it is the only way to get this craziness to stop.

I've called the police... .wow... .3 times perhaps.  I'd have to think about it a bit.  My wife has also called several times, although those tended to be a bit more interesting.

"Ma'am... .do you want us to send a police response?"

FFw "No... you guys just need to know what he is up to... "

"Ma'am... .are you ok?  Are you sure you don't need the police?"

FFw  "No, I just needed to tell you."

There is a bit more back and forth (this is from memory... I can't find the audio file at the moment)... .sorry to hijack the thread... .but you can totally tell the dispatcher is having a What the heck moment.

Anyway...

Looking back, if I had done it sooner, it wouldn't have been so traumatic when I did call.  I should also have started recording sooner.

The last time I called... .with my father in law bouncing around with dukes up... .like Muhammed Ali... .no kidding... .bobbing and weaving and all that... .I just gave the address and requested police response for a domestic disturbance.  Really a bland sounding call.

OK... to your situation.

How did you know he was in your driveway?

Did he tell you?

If he is not invited... .and he is texting you.  I would send the following text.

"You are not welcome on my property.  Leave now."  (don't threaten a consequence)

If he leaves... .drop it.

If he responds with blather... .call 911.

If he responds with a "whats up"... .tell him now is not a good time, you will talk in a day or so and to please leave.

FF

I'm going to ask an uncomfortable question... .

What does a "point of no return" incident look like?

Another...

Has your definition of that changed in the past year or two?

FF

I knew he was in driveway because he told me so. However today he revealed that he was in fact down the block. I'm sure this is because he didn't want to run into my son who was on his way to work at 10 pm.
A point of no return to me is A. Calling the police on him which he would never forgive me for
B. My children having a verbal altercation in which so many hurtful things are said and both sides look for me to choose.
C. Any physical aggression by anyone

Tonight we actually tried to talk but he refused to apologize own any misbehavior then he started in on me cos my son hadn't cleaned the basement as I wished. My bf had cleaned it out last fall and when son came home from college last month he hung some flags and lights. Bf felt son was getting too comfortable and making a mancave. Bf felt this was disrespectful and went down there to video the scene. I thought this excessive and didn't buy in. Of course that set him off and he left.
I also have to add that when formflier asked what message I was sending my daughter it was quite prophetic... she came home and both she and her brother laced into me for having no self respect and being a very weak woman. This was quite upsetting as you could imagine. It is at the point that I am a joke to all that loved me

First, look at the big picture:

1. Your kids: They want to help you, and they want to protect you from your bf and/or abusive behavior from your bf.

Those are excellent intentions. Unfortunately, most of the things they are doing aren't helping or making it easier for you, and there's some boundary busting going on in there.

At this point, you can do three things--Ask them for the kind of support that will help you, keep them away from your bf, and enforce some boundaries when they go too far.

2. Your bf: He's behaving FAR worse, and you need boundaries more with him.

OK, a few specific things you can do after remembering the big picture:


  Yes, this is awful to experience. It is also was an opportunity to use the validation tools (which you learned for BPDbf) with them--they aren't mentally ill, so it should go better.

Think about their feelings underneath what they said... .They didn't say that to make you feel lower than the dirt stuck to the gum on the bottom of their shoes. They really do care about you. They are afraid for you. They want better for you. I'm sure you know that.

What they are doing is hurtful to you, not helpful, but remember where they are coming from; it will help you deal with them in a more constructive way.

And consider asking them about their fears for you, or otherwise validating how they feel about BPDbf.

---

Now what about BPDbf's behavior... .and what you can do to try to keep him from passing your points of no return... .

What he did was escalate conflict with you by threatening conflict directly with your children.

And as you've seen, it worked. It set a dangerous precedent, and he probably will try it again unless you make it clear to him that things have changed.

I'll suggest some boundaries for you regarding him. Think about it and decide whether you believe them... .and whether you think you can enforce them or not.

1. You have a relationship with your children. He has proven that he cannot play nice with them, they now hate him, and his privilege to any connection or involvement with them is 100% revoked as of now.

2. The part of your life you share with your children is now closed to him. You will not be discussing with him whether your son is being 'disrespectful' with him or anything else about them.

3. He may not like the answer if he tries to make you choose between him and your children in smaller things. You won't be breaking prior commitments to them for him anymore.

4. Threatening or provoking a physical confrontation with your children will cause you to involve police (if needed) and break up with him immediately if he does it again.

Anyhow... .think about these--the first part is whether you believe in your heart that enforcing these is the right thing. The second part is whether you believe you can. The last part is what you do at that point. These are serious enough that you should probably tell him first and give him some warning.

There is a last one... .but it is merely informative for him, not one you can enforce by taking action, so telling him is counter-productive, 'tho it might be something you want to say in the face of some threats/statements he makes to you:

5. If he doesn't want to be in a r/s with you despite your children's role in your life (aka the list above), he is free to leave.

     

Please think about "enmeshed" thinking.  A point of "no return" for you, is based on your opinion of what someone else may think.

We can never really know what someone else may think.  We are likely better off to make our own points of no return, based on factors that we control and how we think.  Let other people think as they will.

Can you see how you are making a decision about how you "fear" he may think?

What do we teach about making decisions based on FOG?

FF

Allie -    

I can totally relate to the tired and worn out feeling.  When I read about your relationships with your BF and your kids, I can totally relate.  My relationships haven't gotten that far - but, I could see it happening.  I worry about things escalating and that happening.  I am so sorry that your kids laid into like that - I can imagine how painful it was for you.  I have also found myself trying to pacify my pwBPD - to try and make the situation better. 

Sending hugs to you.  None of this is easy.

allienoah, my heart goes out to you as well, and I KNOW what you are going through.  I've been in yet another recycle for the past month, and my diagnosed NPD/BPD person knows that he cannot be here when my kids are (which is most of time given that two of them are college students that live at home).  My older daughter particularly hates him, as she has been the one who has felt most personally attacked by him, but all have said they will NOT tolerate his presence because they have seen and heard far too much and know how he has treated me.  In fact, last month my oldest daughter said, and I quote "If you go back to him, I will literally kill him.  (She then described how... .) . Then you will have a dead ex and a daughter in jail."

So I went back despite that and I hate myself for it and have lost every ounce of self respect I had, which was minimal after nearly 9 years of emotional and verbal abuse with this very disturbed person.

For the last month of course he has been on his best behavior and has respected boundaries with my kids, I have been very firm about that.  He of course keeps asking if we can all "just get along" which after all these years will not happen.

I'm very unhappy and in terrible cognitive dissonance, which I imagine you are as well.  I had broken up with him in December of last year and ultimately gave in to months of begging, screaming and crying to get back together.  And here I am wondering again how soon I can get out and make it last this time, because my kids come first no matter what and this entire situation is unfair to everyone, the guy included. 

How I wish every day that I had left years and years ago at the first episode of verbal abuse and insane accusations, the relationship would have been over practically before it stated if I had healthy boundaries and wasn't a damn "fixer".  Now I have to fix myself and haven't a clue how.

Please look at me as a cautionary tale and do whats best for yourself NOW.

Formflier you have given me many constructive things to consider. I really appreciate the boundaries you wrote out for me. I do think they are very important, and I want to enforce them. I feel it is completely on me to do so. And absolutely if he forces me to choose, it will be my children. I know they don't feel I put them first but I truly do. Enmeshed thinking is exactly what I am doing! I absolutely let myself get caught up in the FOG aspect-and logically I know I shouldn't. I place too much importance on what will happen to bf, how he will be hurt, how he will react, that I forget how I hurt. I forget the horrible impact this relationship is taking on all of my other personal relationships.
Chillamom thank you for your sharing. You must be feeling awful as well. When our kids go at us-to protect us because they love us-it is very sad, shameful, embarrassing, etc. You and I both know our kids are actually correct, but we can't seem to break the bonds. My bf seems to think that my kids will "get over it" and we will be happy together. That is not going to happen. Then he expects me to want to gel with his kids, and I start to feel resentful. He says they would never treat me the way my kids treat him. Well, that's because I NEVER BEHAVED the way he does.  How do you deal with the tension when he goes to your home? What boundaries have you established regarding your kids? I am wishing I never got this involved with him as well, but here I am. I, like you, am trying to fix myself, no one else. I can't fix him. I don't even want to anymore. I just told him that he needs to take care of himself and stop placing the responsibility for his happiness on my shoulders.

Most importantly... .the impact it is having on YOU!

FF

EXACTLY!

I have been so busy worrying about how everyone else feels, the only time I listen to my own feelings is when things are good with us. Then I fall hook line and sinker... .only to be let down again. I seem to have a cylcle where I've had enough, feel strong, and then start ruminating over the good times. I have to break the cycle -I see that any outside person would've walked away a long long time ago. I actually laughed at myself re-reading my posts, thinking "if this (or that) (or another thing) isn't the point of no return, I don't know what is!".
I'm actually getting frustrated with myself for being too weak right now to just put an end to this.

There are other options other than "end it".

Much better to get strong enough to "take the next step" towards better boundaries... .

Who knows... .maybe with a calmer relationship you won't want to end it.

FF

 

Allienoah,

Hope you are feeling a bit less exhausted todav- these situations are draining in a way that I've never experienced before, really to the point where there is little energy left to make good decisions about ANYTHING.  In answer to your questions, there is no tension directly with my children at this point because I have absolutely established a boundary that he can NEVER be in my home when they are around.  The last time I attempted to have them under the same roof was in December 2015, and my oldest (now 28) was so terrified by his mere presence that she cried for hours afterwards.  She was insulted by him on many occasions over the years I was with him (9 this month, minus several breakups).  My younger kids (twins, 19 who live at home) are afraid of him as well; everyone has seen and heard his rages and most of all they see how he has turned me into a cowed and depressed version of myself.  The twins rightfully note that he has literally been around half their lives, and most of what they remember about their adolescence is the two of us fighting.  I hate myself more than I can express for what I have done to them with this relationship, but honestly, all 3 of them seem to be FINE, largely because, I think, I have kept him the hell out of their lives completely.  My absolute boundary, which he whines about but so far respects, is that he WILL NEVER BE AROUND THEM AGAIN.  EVER.

Obviously, this is untenable for any kind of relationship, and in our latest recycle he and I are literally seeing each other a few hours a week.  He says he accepts and understands this, but I know it is unfair to him.  I am a mess right now, obviously (and I hope this isn't too incoherent).  I am ending this again soon.  I have to.  And this time I have to find a way to finally go NC.  He charmed me back this time by screaming, crying, begging and pleading for 5 months,  Every day.  Hundreds of texts and messages a day.  I thought NC was cruel so I didn't  do it.  Instead I gave in and I hate myself.  

There is still a great deal of tension.  Every time I see him I am waiting for him to start in with the screaming, name calling, accusations, etc, etc.  So far he has been on "good behavior" but cracks are starting to show.  It will be easier for me to leave again if he acts out, but he may be trying to control himself so I will "remember him as a good person" which is a major concern of his,

Allienoah, I really do relate with your struggle, and it has literally come down to him versus my children.  There is no contest.  As my T said, think about your future relationships with your kids - what if they never accept him?  When they have their own children, what if they don't want to come to your home because he is there?  What if you aren't invited to their weddings because of him?  The rest of your life and your relationship with them could be adversely affected because of this man WHO MISTREATS YOU ANYWAY.

Head over heart, Allienoah….can we support each other on this?

Hello! 

I logged in today to write my story but thought I'd scroll through a few first. I don't need to write my story now because MY story is YOUR story. The only difference is that my husband lives with us.

I have read all the advice you've been given and taken a lot on board myself. I've only just joined this site and am amazed that:

1. There's a name for his behaviour
2. There's so many people going through this
3. I can seek help and advice anonymously
4. The advice is beyond awesome
5. I'm not alone
6. I've got this

One thing I've found is that I've lost myself in this relationship. I was reading about how a borderline relationship evolves and it fits perfectly with our 'timeline'. I never saw outbursts (or what I call meltdowns) until after we married. To the outside world, we were the perfect couple. Loving, attentive etc.


What was the trigger? A bank statement in his and his ex-wife's name was sent to our house. Innocently, (and calmly) I asked "Why would you still have a joint account with your ex?" The neighbourhood heard the result of that... .

Sorry, I digressed... .

Like you, I have adult children (+ one at high school). The younger two live with us. The one saving grace that I can see is that your b/f does not live with you, and therefore you have the chance for quality time with your kids. I have a great relationship with my kids, and we laugh & carry on like always, but as soon as H walks in from work, they scatter.

Only yesterday, I had a good long chat with my kids. They want him gone. They can't put up with his moods, his yelling, and his treatment of me any more. I'm trying to work out how some of the advice put to you can be applied in my situation too. They avoid him, retreat to their rooms etc, but then I get "Your kids won't even try". How can I, in the nicest possible way, tell him that it's his fault? Because as we all know, it's never their fault, it's everyone elses!

We secretly call him Henny Penny... .it was a story from when I was young about a chicken who had an acorn drop on it's head and she went around telling everyone the sky was falling... .makes me laugh because that's what it's like in our house. My son leaves a teaspoon on the sink and suddenly we're all copping it. *sigh*

Anyway... .

give your kids a huge hug, say thank you for their support, and make sure they know how important they are to you. That's all I've got for you, sorry. I'm handing over to the experts!

All the best, stay strong and focussed. Your kids need you more than they let on, and more than you realise. You've got this! 

Small thread hijack to make a very important point! 

First of all

Knackered,

*welcome*

I'm glad you found us.  We can help.

Since I don't know much about your story, I'm going to stick with very general advice.

Boundaries:  We all need to stick to "our roles".  I want to assure everyone that it's NOT our role to convince anyone else of anything.  It is our role to accurately evaluate our role in things and change what we can control... .which is us.

Now... .from time to time others (usually the pwBPD) will try to convince us of things, usually trying to convince us that "it's our fault".  More specifically that their feelings and dysfunctional reactions are our fault.

As you well know, this is very hard to resist "saying something" about.

Yet... .trying to convince them that they are wrong is NOT our role.  Trust me, they "get something" from arguing about this kind of thing.  "It works for them... " in a dysfunctional way. 

Our job is to not participate.

One last visual.  Imagine they are "tossing" responsibility at us. 

First of all... .don't catch it.
Second of all... .don't "toss it back".

It is so temping to "toss it back at them".  They will claim that since you didn't toss it back... .you are taking it.  Nope... .and don't explain it either... .just "let it lie their on the floor".

Knackered... .what do you think about these general points.  How has this type of thing played out in your r/s? 

FF hijack almost over!    :)

FF

You're not wrong! But when I bite my tongue and don't respond, I'm pushed for a response. It's so hard to not blurt out what's on your mind!

One comment that I constantly hear is "It was the way you looked at me" or "It was your tone of voice" which leaves me so confused. And I find myself having to explain that there was nothing in my look or tone that should have been taken the wrong way.

It's human nature to want to stand up for yourself when you know you've done nothing wrong. So I'm reading, and re-reading everything on this site to learn how to deal with this.

So, how has this played out in my r/s? Great question... .

When I stumbled across the site, I had a major light bulb moment. Members' stories, the advice, the descriptions... ."oh my! That's me!" is all I kept saying. Or "Wow, that description is so spot on!"

You're correct though. He DOES toss the responsibility at me. And yes, I do toss it back at times. I've found that if I try to leave it alone - let it lie, he 'hunts me down' for a response. He pushes it. It's infuriating!

Quick example: Tonight he came home from work and made a comment about some sauce (Ketchup to most of you!) on the kitchen counter. My response was "Oh sorry, that was me. I had that out earlier, I didn't notice I'd spilt it" (counter is black). In a typical relationship, you'd expect that to be the end of it. Clean up, move on. But no, it's followed up with "Have I said the wrong thing by saying that?" I chose to ignore that comment and went about my business. Not long after I'm asked "What's wrong?" Ah, here we go. "Nothing's wrong, why?" and out comes the "It's the way you looked at me".

Trip to the shops together and I'm cornered in the car. "It's your tone of voice, it's this and that". Persistent badgering to elicit a response. All I could think of to try and diffuse the out of control situation was say "I'm sorry my response made you feel that way, it wasn't my intention". All the way home I got "Yeah but you do... .and you say... ."

The rest of the night was spent in silence. "Aren't you going to talk to me now?" "Sure, if you want to talk, I'm happy to. What did you want to talk about?" And the cycle begins again... .

No wonder I'm 'knackered'!

Thanks for listening. I'm off to make boundaries!  |iiii

Big picture:

As you have seen, he pushes for the responses that he wants... .because they work for him

Your job is to stop giving those responses.  He will push harder.

When he does something "healthy" with you, give him praise and attention (fill his need), when he is inappropriate... .he gets nothing.

This will take a while, but he wants to "fill the need" and will do what it takes to get it.  It will take time for him to be convinced the old way isn't working anymore.

Note:  The above process can be done without his knowledge or agreement.  You change your part and he will have to change his.

There are lots of details to fill in, but it is important that you understand the big picture.

Last big picture:  Stop "fixing" or "helping" his feelings.

Example:

"Blah blah blah... .there is ketchup on the counter... .blah blah blah... ."

"I'm glad you noticed, it would mean a lot to me if you wipe it up"

"blah blah blah I work all day and you can't wipe up ketchup... .blah blah blah"

"Oh my goodness, you sound upset.  Do I have that right?"

"blah blah blah I wouldn't be upset if you could wipe up ketchup and you never have relish in the fridge, even though you know I relish relish.  Why do you treat me this way, especially after all I do for you, my friends wife wipes up ketchup her her house... .he never has a dirty countertop and he has all the onions he wants... .you never give me onions because you hate me"

(stay friendly)

"It seems you have had quite a day.  I'll get back together with you in 15 minutes after things have calmed" (never say you)  I'm going to clear my head a bit"

Note the time and "getting back together" (emphasizes being a couple).   You identify the issue (not calm) without blaming.  You take ownership for leaving and taking care of yourself.  He can and will do what he will do.

Come back in 15 minutes... .wash rinse repeat.


FF

Sorry--I took a time out for myself yesterday to really consider all that is happening
Chillamom-hand over heart yes let's support each other with this situation. I would love to say that my bf should just stay away when I am home with my kids, but he has been very clear that he would never accept that ''restriction". But everything else you spoke of, we share the same experience, so let's bond in our healing.

I have really been digesting that my kids do truly love me. and that they are trying so hard to get a message through to me that I deserve better than this. Even as they handle it poorly, they ARE maintaining THEIR boundaries and I have to respect that. I am also going to have to do some serious damage control no matter what happens. I have gone through the recycle so many times, that no one ever thinks I am done, or he's done, etc.
Right now I just want to communicate to bf some of the boundaries that formflier suggested for me. I have to do it now or I will continue in this state of flux. My bf did escalate things to a level that is potentially dangerous, if not physically, certainly emotionally.
I really have to keep my relationship with my kids separate, and not share anything with my bf -it always comes back to bite me when I do.

I think that the last boundary that FF sent me, (if he doesn't want to be in a r/s with me despite my children's role in my life, he is free to leave) deserves some merit and I have to accept that. In essence he IS asking me to choose between him and them.

 |iiii    |iiii

I'm so excited for you!  You took deliberate, thoughtful action for self care and to reflect on where you are in your relationship.  That is so very important!

Great job doing that!

Can you practice with us what you intend to communicate with your boyfriend?

What does "damage control" look like to you?  What is the difference in damage control and "fixing"?

Big picture truth:  It is much MORE important what you DO to enforce a boundary and much LESS important what you communicate (say).  Your actions will speak louder than your words.  Especially actions that are consistent.

Thoughts?

FF

You know, I feel that damage control in this case is trying to repair the broken relationships I have experienced as a part of my r/s with bf. So I guess that means "fixing" to me. It might just take a very long time.

I know already I am walking into a minefield today, as my bf wanted my son to clean up my basement where he had hung lights and posters. My bf felt that he had cleaned it and my son was getting too "comfortable" and making it a man-cave. My bf feels disrespected because his hard work to clean it out has been tampered with. I tell you this because here is my opportunity to lay out my boundary that his involvement with my kids is 100% revoked as of right now. It is my house. I will see to what does and does not get done. If this is the way bf will act whenever he helps me with something, I will no longer ask. AND when bf goes on and on about my accepting the lights and posters in the basement, I will calmly tell him it is none of his concern. that I appreciated his cleaning it out, but my son is home for the present and he can make it homey while he is there. If he doesn't like this, he is free to leave.

BF: I thought S was going to get his crap out of the basement
Me: I am going to allow him to keep it there while he lives here.
BF: I cleaned that basement out and had it spotless. This is disrespectful to me
Me: I am sorry you feel that way. I am truly grateful you cleaned it out, and my s is home now and needs some space.
BF: You are ungrateful, you allow S to disrespect you and in turn ME! WE DISCUSSED KEEPING IT EMPTY!
Me: Yes we did, yet I feel S needs some space.

We all know where it goes from there---storming out, raging, bullying, a discard, projection,
This time though I am ready for it and will not engage.

This is a pretty good back and forth.  Two big observations.

"I agree with you, we did discuss this.  As you know, things have changed since that discussion and I have changed my mind.  It would mean a lot to me for you to respect my feelings on my basement.  Can you do that for me?"


Always always always... .agree with them if you can find something to agree with them on.

Then you set your boundary and end it with a simple question that also puts you in control.

If he blathers on.  "I'm willing to continue this conversation when you are able to answer my question."

No more interaction after that, ask him to leave if he persists.  Your home, your rules... .no compromise on that.

None... .

Let him experience "banging" into that boundary as much as he wants.

I think this is much better than making it about your kids.  You want to remove them from the issue... by making it about you and your rules.  


Second observation is that by discussing the kids with him, you "validate" or agree by action that his input is ok and "welcome".  Somehow you just need to stop discussing it or set a hard boundary in another way.

Stay friendly and even point him back to your relationship.

"I'm the parent and will handle parenting.  It would mean a lot to me if you would handle our dinner plans for tonight, I'm looking forward to coming together with you in our date night."

See the quandary that leaves him in.  You set a boundary... .he will not be happy... .you are offering relationship with him... he may be happy.

Respect his choice.  Either way... .go out to dinner and enjoy YOURSELF... .with or without him.

Thoughts?

FF

One thought on this boundary with your bf about what your son does in the basement and what you allow... .

You don't need to convince your bf that you are right about this and he is wrong about this... .or convince him that your son ISN'T disrespecting either you or your bf.

You need to convince him that you won't change your mind and you won't discuss it further. (And let him feel however he is going to feel about it!)

If he is too upset to be with you after that, it is his choice.

Chances are he will get over it.

Very good advice! I followed that script-acknowledging that we had discussed it, I had changed my mind, please respect my decision... I was then treated to a screaming rage in the car all the way home. Windows were open and yes I was once again mortified. But this time I asked 3 times for him to stop. I shared my thought that I parent my kids and he parents his. Well he didn't stop, he dropped me off at home and took off... telling me he's done... .(once again). You know what? I was very calm and know deep down I did nothing wrong. I didn't JADE , I didn't scream back. I quietly sat and listened, got home and went about my business . It's his problem now. And I'm ok with that right now. He said such awful things about me and my son. Sorry you don't get to do that.
FF and grey kitty you both have said when I set boundaries he isn't going to like it and might leave.

Allienoah, just wanted to say kudos to you!  WONDERFUL that you stood your ground and respectfully and calmly set and maintained boundaries.  I'm impressed and a little awed!  The fact that it didn't freak you out when it had the expect effect on him is also a great sign of your ability to handle this person's instability….good for you!

Thanks chillamom! I did stay calm and just counted the minutes till we got home. He took my stuff out of his car, gave a cold kiss and said "see ya." It's been quiet ever since. I am honestly feeling a little relief mixed in with sadness over this. The GOP side of that is the anger and hurt from his words. But he crossed a line and needs to know I'm enforcing it. Now it's just time to get some rest and start anew tomorrow ... .
I am so grateful that this support is here for me! 

Allienoah,

If "crossing a line" works for you with regards to boundary enforcement... .good... .keep using it.

I've found "banging themselves into the wall around my property" to be most helpful for me.  I imagine that I have a wall (think castle wall) and that my pwBPD from time to time "assaults" that wall by crashing into it, with associated wailing and gnashing of teeth that they have found a wall.

Well... .I'm sitting inside my castle enjoying life and there is a clamor outside my castle.  Sure... .it can be bothersome and from time to time I will "walk the wall" to make sure there are no cracks.  Most of my time is spent enjoying my life inside my castle. 

When there is an assault... .I think about Monty Python and the search for the Holy Grail.

https://youtu.be/A8yjNbcKkNY

I certainly don't advocate throwing cats at a pwBPD that is dysregulated and assaulting your castle... .but I have taunted them a second... .third... .and sometimes forth time. 

The key is to not open the door.

Seriously though... .crossing the line would imply they are on your property and "need to be thrown off"... .that seems like a lot of work to me.

Letting them bang into my castle wall seems like work for them and a "get the popcorn" moment for me.

Thoughts?

Seriously... .next time he starts trying to be a parent to your son I want you to say... in an outrageous french accent.

"He's already got a parent... .and she's very nice.  Now go away before I taunt you a second time."

Then hush... .

 
FF

FF you are too funny! Yes the castle walls are certainly up and fortified!

A huge step I made this AM -it won't sound like that big a deal to some, but for ME it is big-I got up, ready for work, and drove to work WITHOUT picking up the phone to see if he has calmed down. I guess my "mom claws" are out -he doesn't get to insult my son or me the way he was.
As I always thought he was my "partner" I would vent about my kids. I had stopped doing that but the damage is done. BF feels he has carte blanche to say what he thinks about them. No bueno!
Right now I am examining my behavior in this situation. I understand he feels disrespected, as he did bust his butt to clean the basement out. I have acknowledged, thanked and respected him for this. I believe right now he -and his expectation of eventually moving in with me- is shaky at the moment. I KNOW he feels insecure now that my son is home, looking for a job and to move out. So in bf's eyes, my son is getting comfortable and might not leave. However, while acknowledging he feels this way, I also have the right to allow my son the room to live while home. I have to tell you the rage yesterday went on to ridiculous accusations. He accused me of having my head in the sand, that my son set up the basement so he could do drugs down there, NOT TRUE-and that I am allowing my home to be turned into "white trash"-I am being played, my son "rules the roost" and all sorts of hateful stuff. I am going on and on I know but I need to vent and there is not one person left in my life who will even listen anymore.

So-having gotten that out- I don't understand why I am actually questioning whether or not I did something wrong. I honestly don't feel like I was disrespecting bf, nor was my son-he doesn't know bf cleaned out the room. And I do think that having a place to go with his friends is important for this transitional time of his life. I am also fine with a bunch of legal young men having a few beers while watching the game in my basement-it keeps my living room clean!
I just need to keep myself from the self-doubt bf instills in me with his anger.

Let me take an educated guess... .

You are "done" with your old ways... .old patterns and have set off on a new an untrodden path.  There aren't many signs on that path to help you out... .and since you haven't been down that path before, it only natural to wonder if you are still "going the right way".

You are asking the questions and venting in the right place... .  It is also helpful for us to see your "vents"... .because it gives us a sense of where your head is.

You are on the right path... .... .don't look back.

A helpful question, for whenever you choose to spend time thinking about your r/s and critiquing yourself is... ."Why do I know so much about the hateful things he says to me?"

Even more important... ."What can I do more of... .that will let me know less of... .the unkind thoughts that .he sometimes has about me"

FF
 

Why do I know so much about the hateful things he says to me?"

Even more important... ."What can I do more of... .that will let me know less of... .the unkind thoughts that .he sometimes has about me"


I'm not sure I know what you mean FF. Is it that I am questioning myself, and thinking that there is a grain of truth to what he says? And that I should focus on all that is good about myself to combat the insults he throws my way?

I absolutely can not look back. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had communicated clearly that I no longer was going to tolerate these rages, name-calling etc. I just need help with not taking everything he said to heart, and remembering that even if there is a grain of truth and he is angry, the manner in which he expresses himself is unacceptable and abusive.

It's funny that when he was raging, he was lamenting that he didn't spend my birthday, Valentine's Day or Easter together-forgetting that he went on raging rampages just before all of those days. The accusation that I didn't have a special 50th birthday for him is ludicrous as he was always breaking up with me.
I guess what I am trying to fathom is: Does he really think his behavior exists in a vacuum? That no consequences are to be had from this behavior?
To tie that in to what you have said-I know deep down the reasons for all of the "injustices" I have imposed upon him. So I would need to focus on my own goodness and less of the blather that he accuses me of...

I'll rephrase the question...

Why listen to any of this anymore?

You have lots of detail about what he thinks, because you stick around an listen to blather.

"Oh my ... .you want to emotionally vomit at the mouth in my presence, we can stay together and speak respectfully or I'll leave the conversation."

In other words... .in the future... .my hope is that you know about 1 minute worth of his blather... .because you've removed yourself from that or he has stopped after being reminded... .

What are your thoughts on this?

FF

oh ok --now I get it. I shouldn't stick around to listen to it.
Well yesterday I was trapped in the car until we reached my house, so I had no choice. Neither did anyone driving next to us! 
Going forward though, if there is going forward, I need to get away much quicker. You're right, if I don't hear it, it can't hurt me.
I honestly need a breather from all of this. I have to laugh to myself, as I am sure right now he thinks he is "punishing" me for having requested he respect my decision.

When it comes to protecting yourself from rage... .and "communicating" that you are serious about it asking to be let out and calling a cab is 100% appropriate.

I'm not sure of the legal ramifications of asking someone to be let out... .and them telling you no... .basically... .keeping you in the car against your will... .but... .only you know what exactly you said to get out or have him stop.

Our situations are a bit reversed in that I usually drive.  I've pulled over and gotten out several times.  I've pulled over with kids in the back and forced a choice... .either hush and we continue the trip... .or I'm taking everyone back home.  We continued the trip... and to her credit she hushed.  Kids crying... all that.

But... .back to my big point... .walk away... .

I'll tell you a funny story about when I "boundaried" my Mom.  Details don't matter, other than to say my Mom rarely... .rarely cusses and gets upset.  On this day she had a legitimate reason (not me) and when she raised her voice and said a cuss word I said something like "I'm not going to be able to talk about this... ." and walked away.

Totally on autopilot

I reflected on this with my Psychologist and... oddly enough she sort of said I was doing boundaries too well.  I needed to stay present more... .learn to not take this personally... .work validation more... etc etc.

I had basically gotten to the point of anger plus cuss words equals FF exit... .automatically.

My hope for you is that you get to the point where I and many others on her are saying... ."Hey... .instead of walking away from him... perhaps try to validate... .perhaps try to listen and not take it personally... .etc etc.

Maybe you can use a new line... ."I'm your girlfriend... not your therapist.  Take those extreme feelings up with a therapist"  No jade... .say it... do it.

Remember... .castle wall... .every once in a while you peek over and see what all the commotion is. 

FF

What a story! I too hope to get to the point where I'm not taking it all so personally. For now I will "enjoy the silence" and regroup. I'm trying to formulate my reply when he inevitably calls and asks what I plan to do to "fix" this. That's usually his MO. I know right now he thinks he's punishing me. Truth be told I can't fix it. I asked for respect for my change of heart and to let ME parent my son. I'm not going back on that. As you said yesterday, if he can't do that, he's free to leave. Looks like that's his choice right now. I just need to stay strong.

Hi Allienoah,

Your recent post reminded me about something with my partner, around holidays. 

But first, Formflier, I need to acknowledge how much I love this:


As much as this makes me laugh (esp. "you know I relish relish", I think there's a really smart distancing tactic here.  Putting oneself into a mode where you *expect* to hear absurd blather makes it easier to let all of it bounce off, without inflicting damage.

My partner has unfortunately developed a tendency to see bugs in everything.  We live in a wooded area, so there are of course a number of insects that live here, too. But the bugs are so tiny, apparently, that only she can see them--or identify them as insects.  Cleaning up this area or that rarely changes anything; recognition of her authority is what she wants.

It was quite some time before I learned how to acknowledge that I was hearing her, without getting swept up into agreeing or arguing (which wasn't easy, as she frequently asks if I believe her).  Since can even turn into a barrage of insults about my general knowledge regarding science, my stubbornness, my arrogance, etc., I wish I'd discovered my "interpreter blah-blah headphones" sooner!

Regarding holidays,


Allienoah, I've had this same situation thrown at me.  Once, I decorated the tree by myself, because she'd thrown a box of ornaments across the room, shouting that she hated Christmas.  Or outrage appears out of nowhere, a few hours before we're due to depart for the annual family picnic, or 7pm-ish on New Year's Eve.  It can be very hard, if not impossible, to keep smiling and humming, so that the holiday can continue in some fashion, once the storm has passed.

It's taxing, isn't it?  I may be close to a decision.  I hope you've been able to gain some quiet time, as a result of the boundaries you've been setting.

You know, tonight I decided that instead of sitting home ruminating, I went to see a friend who had relocated out of state. I've been friends with her for years and she's heard every story about my bf and me. It was so refreshing to be in the city away from the madness ... I didn't reach out... I didn't wish he was there. I enjoyed my peace. It's all one day at a time isn't it? Part of me wished he knew I was living life, but I am keeping this to myself as he would only devalue it anyway. You know what? I got through today with all of your help... and I am grateful.

So after making it to work without caving in, I am starting to feel apprehensive now about our NC. I am still hurt and angry about the way he treated me on Sunday (and many other occasions). I know it is best for me if I just "sit". I really don't want the conflict.
I am sad. The urge to reach out and just try to validate what he felt, while letting him know his behavior was unacceptable is really bothering me. My inner voice keeps saying DO NOT REACH OUT. I guess it is also pride that is keeping me from caving. I also think it is a growing sense of self-respect-how dare he treat me like that? So as you can see, I am all over the place.
Realistically my life would be ever so much more simple and calm without him in it. The key is for me to stop ruminating. How does one do that?

Hi allienoah~


A little bit of ruminating will always come along I guess. The key is to keep yourself busy with whatever you can find. It will disperse quite some of the ruminating. I guess everybody has their own ways to cope with NC periods ^^
Like for me, when ruminating is that severe I barely can concentrate, focusing on a book, learn some language (learning Korean D:), is hardly an option to me, of course I'm referring to the off-work time (when the pestering ruminations start). Sometimes, if the walls at home start to close on in, I'd just go wander around outside, browse bpdfamily, play cellphone games or chat with friends online, there are millions of possibilities to create "me"-time. I'm sure you have plenty of your own ways too.

I do have many things that keep me occupied. And I am so glad I was able to let myself go to meet my friend last night. In the past I would've been so upset over my bf that I would've stayed home and wallowed. I have not spoken of what transpired to anyone. I will get no support whatsoever. My friends all support me yet feel I should not be with him. My family will do cartwheels to know we are not speaking. So I have been silent for the past 2 days. I know that doesn't sound like a long time, but I still just don't feel right. It's like I am caught in this tornado of "I'm better off and calmer now" to " should we discuss the matter again and see if we can come up with a solution". My logical mind tells me that there is no changing the way he feels (disrespected, disappointed, hurt) and at the same time I MUST stay firm on the boundary that he is not permitted to speak to me as he has.

Hi, Allienoah, From my perspective, what you're feeling today seems pretty understandable - literally EVERY time I have tried to enforce NC or even LC these thoughts have plagued me as well, leading of course to endless recycles like the one I am in now AND leading to even more misery, because nothing ever changed and I am convinced nothing ever will.  I don't know what to say about the rumination, the "keep busy" stuff that others have noted here and in other posts is pretty much what I think as well….I am torn between trying to distract myself when these inevitable rumination arise or, alternatively, sink into them and let the feelings wash over me, as many on here have also suggested.

Ironically, I'm a psychologist and have ALSO been seeing a T for the past 8 YEARS to untangle the damage  I have allowed my relationship and FOO to inflict on me, so I'm a lousy example of ANY advice.  One thing my T told me that maybe you might find helpful is to set aside a specific time of day for rumination.  Obviously, you can't do it at work, , but take 15 minutes or so when you get home to deliberately sit down and obsess away.  When thoughts arise during your "non rumination" time jot them down quickly and then remind yourself to come back to them at 5:30 or whatever.  The idea is that in relatively short order, you will get bored with the whole rumination thing and will break the "groove" in your brain that causes them to become so powerful.

IDK, just a thought.  I think everyone has to find their own techniques to get out of the labyrinth.  And honestly, you KNOW he will be contacting you again….maybe thinking about the best way to handle that inevitability is something you might focus on during "rumination time."

And yes, I know you miss him and that hurts like hell, probably even more so because you know you "shouldn't" given his abusive tirades.

I know that both of us are in somewhat similar situations….I guess the question we really need to ask ourselves is WHEN the hell is enough enough?  My 9 YEAR ANNIVERSARY with my person is coming up nest week, and if I parse out the "good times" it was probably 10% of the total….but here I stay, and here I come back to.  And I hate myself because of it, probably the worst thing about it is losing my sense of "self" and my joie de vivre completely.   If that's happening to you too, and I suspect it might be, we really have to seriously "ruminate" over how we can permanently make a change, because they will keep us in this back and forth nightmare in perpetuity.  I've lost nearly a decade of my life in this damn FOG.

Hi chillamom, so great to hear from you! Correct in saying that nothing will change. It only gets worse. As I sat here thinking about the vocal tirades, I noticed that it used to be just between myself and bf. Now he doesn't care where he rages and as I have noted here a few times, he will do it in public. I honestly feel that sometimes people in the places we frequent get uncomfortable around us when he starts in. I am mortified to think that I am the focus of their pitying looks and whispered conversations.
You are not a lousy source of advice. You are living it too, and that gives you perspective. I always say that I am so good at helping other people live their lives, and yet mine gets messy so easily. If I were to read all of my posts as a stranger, I would be telling me to get over it and move on. Not so easy when it is my heart on the line.
I like the idea of setting aside time for rumination. I just feel like my brain is on overload and these thoughts just pop in. I actually sat down and wrote out a long list of all the times that easily come to mind that bf has raged, disrespected, and acted inappropriately. I just kept reading it to remind my brain that I have been subjected to verbal abuse for some time now.
And you are right, it does hurt like hell, and I know rationally I should be more hurt by the treatment I have endured.
Honestly, I do think he will reach out. and honestly I am scared to death of that too. Part of me thinks that this is my opportunity to put this to rest once and for all. That my family will freak out if they knew I had a foot out the door and went back for more. And yes I know full well that I shouldn't base my love-life on what others think.
Geez my head is spinning!

I agree with letting them wash over, then however, get them to a healthy level to form conclusions you can stick to.


Welcome to the club. Everytime I told my family about me going back I was told I was better off without her  ... all my friends say "you're too nice" & "you're way too loyal"... all of them! And I keep walking back in. You are right, we should not base our love-life on what others think, but certainly should take peoples opinions into account. Like that we can form our own decisions. Like how often have I whined to a friend about the cruelties my gf puked out, she must think I'm insane . Yet she can relate if I explain, and give valuable advice, without that I certainly would have ended up in a madhouse. And then there is bpdfamily. It was like the missing piece of the puzzle, I think.

By the way my SO started to drag her vocal escapades into public too, long ago, which ranges from shrieking like a banshee (smashing our anniversary earrings on the floor in front of me) to physically (trying) to assault me in a years end full shopping center (I got slapped )... .where everybody could watch us. (Thank god Seoul is a giant city)
I learnt not to care about it, may people think or say what they want, like hell I even take it into account if it's constructive.

Stay strong   

Letting the ruminations come and go definitely takes practice! I did find it helpful today to remember every time he humiliated me in public, and I read the list I made of his most outrageous tantrums. This gets me to a place where honestly I don't know if I ever want to see him again.
He truly believes that he still has every right to expect that I will make my son get his stuff out of the basement. I believe that is the wrong thing to do. I think my S needs a place to watch tv with his friends, and hang out when the weather is bad. He is 22 for heaven's sake. And his small bedroom isn't the place for 4 friends to hang. Honestly why am I even explaining this?

As far as other people's opinions, it is bothersome when everyone feels I should walk away from this. They don't get the mental condition. They just see him as excessively needy, manipulative and controlling. And they don't like seeing me as a nervous wreck about setting him off. I know they love me and are protective of me. My r/s has strained so many of these other r/s.

As I have said many times, thank goodness for this forum where people actually understand what is going on.

It takes time! If you're like me, you find yourself repressing the negative memories and starting to imagine more positive scenarios the more time you spend apart. Having that journal at hand is a sharp reminder of what the reality of the experience is.


Why indeed! Your son, your place, your rules. That's self-evident.


Hmm. It sure sounds like your friends/family "get it." We often think that our pwBPD are masters at charming everyone else, and nobody will believe our experience. That's often not true at all.

I don't know if this will help at all, but I've been stuck in two versions of the Friends/Family Conundrum.

A very close friend, who probably knows me the best, broached the topic of leaving the r/s almost 3 years ago, when I told him about some of the intense exchanges that had become almost daily.  My first (internal) reaction was, "Well, you've never met her.  You just have heard a few details that you dislike--you don't know any of the decent experiences that have caused me to stay.  You're not being fair to her."

On the other hand, a work friend who does know her a little bit, said (when I mentioned some thoughts about leaving), "This would be a good change for you.  I've thought that for a couple of years now."  My first (internal) reaction to that was, "Well, you've just made assumptions, based on a scowl on my face, or something else, that might've been caused by something else entirely!"

It may simply be that I'm a hardhead and have viewed these remarks as statements about me (I'm too stupid to know what makes me happy; I'm a pushover and have let myself be bullied around, etc.).

Somehow, in the last month or so, that resistance has faded a bit.  Something a friend said--about me never seeming to enjoy anything anymore--hit home.  For me, I think I realized that my friends were truly reacting to my manner, my external bearing, and that was enough for them to be concerned--let alone speculate. 

As the feeling of More Bad Days, Than Good, has increased on its own, my friends' remarks still feel a bit intrusive, but more sincere and less presumptuous/ignorant.  They don't have to know all the details, to see that I feel rotten and exhausted most of the time.

All the best,
Jim579

allienoah,
I get what you mean when you say friends "don't understand the mental condition".  But honestly, and I've said this to myself over and over…even if we understand that the person is indeed "sick", does that necessarily mean that we should sacrifice our own well-being to a manipulative and abusive person?  Like you, I go back and forth with this kind of rumination all the time…it's not his fault, his parents probably did this to him (and yeah, they're both "interesting" characters), I'm all he has….but at some point we have to consider our own well being as just as important or even slightly more important than theirs (the 51% rule, I think?).

And from my perspective, I have seen my diagnosed NPD/BPD guy turn on the charm and act COMPLETELY FINE when in the middle of what I experienced as a severe rage or even a complete dissociative episode…so you know what?  I'm starting to believe that he can control it a whole lot more than I ever really understood, and that makes his bad behavior seems a lot more volitional - not to mention he has admitted that many times he says things just to get me angry and "push my buttons". What normal, loving human being does that on a constant basis, if at all?

Now let me tell you all something really embarrassing…... one of my twins has a summer job that will involve her driving home from work around 45 minutes at around midnight every night.  Being a mom, I want to make sure she's driving ok and know where she is.  She installed a "location finder" app on my phone so that I could track her, which I thought was nice of her and I appreciated her indulging my anxiety.  HOWEVER, she can also track me, because that's how it works…long story short, I lied to my kids Sunday about going out with a friend when I was really seeing "Voldemort" (that's what my kids call him, so let's go with it).  I KNEW they would kill me if they knew I was with him, much like your children….well, my daughter saw where I was on the location finder and she called me out on it.  Fortunately, she is the most "chill" of my 3 and we just talked about it when I got home, but as she said, she could smell "B.S." a mile away anyhow….

And of course, he wants to see me again tomorrow and also Saturday, but it turns out my kids are going to be home (he lives with his PARENTS and doesn't have his own place at 31) so how the hell am I going to see him?  I am NOT going to lie again.  Now I have to reestablish trust with my daughter, and I am going to.  What that means is that he and I will probably have another showdown, and the recycle will end as a result.   

I am sick of being caught in this tangled web of my own making…and by the way the last time I saw him what did I get for lying to my daughter?  An evening spent trapped in my car while he raged at me and screamed to STFU because of something I don't even remember.

I'm embarrassed to admit all this. I can't see him without some kind of cover story.  And I don't EVEN WANT to see him.  I'm just afraid to leave because I know the storm of misery that will follow if I'm not strong enough to go NC this time.  Thanks for letting me vent.

I relate so well to you feelings of being a nervous wreck about setting him off.  What the hell kind of relationship is that, am I right, if we can't even feel a basic level of comfort and security with the person?  We both have a great opportunity here to get this done and over with, and get to know ourselves and some sanity again!

Chillamom it is right on when you say we don't have to be treated badly. I had told my bf that he could try to find ways to self soothe when he felt himself going off the rails. I clearly stated I wasn't tolerating that anymore. Well of course it's my fault that he took it so far -- he always takes it too far. I'm not owning the blame for poor behavior. I feel totally done with that. Like I named this thread... I'm worn out and exhausted.
Please don't be embarrassed. We have all done things to protect our selves, our kids and our partners. It's not pretty at times. Once I ran out of a restaurant on New Year's Eve cos I didn't want my daughters friend who happened to be there to tell my daughter I was with bf. Honestly?

It's funny cos my bf was in dbt with his family and learned mindfulness and skills. Trouble was he didn't use the tools with ME! I was very resentful. It's very hurtful to know when they are turning it on and off. My bf turns it off with friends.
Jim579 it is truly unnerving when individuals comment on your r:s and deep down you know there's truth to what they are saying. It also is uncomfortable when you make plans with them and they really don't want to see your bf/gf and let you know that they will be polite but aren't thrilled.

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