BPDFamily.com

Hi all,

13 days separated from undiagnosed BPD wife. LC, only 1 message each day about our son.

Today I spoke to her parents, said she's struggling. Angry with everybody, not coping well according to both parents.
Her dad who has previously told me to wait a good few weeks to see what she wants etc said to me that maybe I should call her & talk to her. Her best friend (who helps me a lot as she knows what I'm going through) said to call her but in no circumstances should I apologise. She told her best friend yesterday she wants me to call and apologise & then we can look at working through this. It's been my problem for the last 3 and half years, I've enabled her by apologising just for an easy life, when I'm invariably not remotely in the wrong.

So I call her, no answer. I message her to call me.



She responds 'What do you want, is it about our son?

I respond:  'No it's about us. No pressure though if you don't want to talk'

She responds: 'About us, I've got nothing to talk about'

I respond:  'No problem at all, I won't bring it up again. Have a nice day'.



Now I'm thinking, I called her for two purposes. One because people said I should because she wasn't great, so it's a form of compassion. Then the second is what most of us will recognise... .I'm rather co-dependent on her and I miss her. But I'm getting a hell of a lot stronger.

I think she'll be empowered by todays little exchange.

Will she view it as her supply is just waiting there, dangling on a string?


Little does she know that I'm getting stronger, understanding all of this and working on myself now so she can't keep on eroding me.

But I'm trying to understand her games, her manipulations and even her needs. I think somehow I've played right into her hands by reaching out but it was motivated by compassion for my wife who I love dearly, so I'm not at all ashamed :)

Any input greatly appreciated :)

Hi again, Sorry for your struggles! I am fumbling away through all this myself as well.

I hear that in the past you felt like you apologized too much and her not at all. Do I have that correct?

I think it is a really good time to take a great big rethink on apologies in general and what they mean. I know a lot of us see them as some kind of surrender or taking responsibility for stuff we didn't cause and is way bigger than us and they don't feel right, feel like a piece of territory you have to fight for and hold.  

But I would suggest perhaps another approach. A team approach. Find the pieces you agree on and use that as your "apology". We both want better communication, we are both responsible for that, how can we do that?" I'm sorry my words hurt your feelings, that was not my intention, what I was really trying to say is... .X." Soothing words go a long way and help make mutual apologies possible.

I am no whizz at communication, as you see! But I think by doing a lot of re-centering, team building if you will, you can get each other back on the same team instead of being opposing parties fighting over right and wrong. You aren't gonna "win" arguments or "right and wrong" battles, and this is not a winner take all thing. It is a compromise, agree on what you can, and go forward kinda thing.

My partner drives me nuts. Literally says anything he wants. But he feels bad about it afterwards at least. He still says awful stuff, but the quantity is way down.

It is rough. You are in a holding pattern now. Perhaps neither of you is sure you want to go on together as a couple, right? Perhaps her thinking is so black and she is so desperate to "win" that she will hold out a long time. But there is a child involved so... .this long term silence thing on the part of either of you... .is extra complicated, right?

What is she expecting an apology for exactly?

I know it hurts, but I've had to learn the hard way that part of why it is so hard for my partner with BPD traits to apologize is because it makes him feel so low as a human being he can hardly face it. But when he sees me apologize (for anything big or small) he is more able to do it. When I can I try to throw myself into it. Not to be a doormat, but just to be less egocentric. It is a process of letting go, apologizing, not something to resent. I mean, again, as part of a rethink, if an apology might be "healing medicine" for another do you really want to deny them that medicine? I know this takes a lot of mental gymnastics, but that is what it is gonna take to make this work.

What do you want? Has this break helped you to see what you want to do long-term? Are you still willing to give it your all? Want out? Not sure?

Take care! :) Kind thoughts and best wishes!

Maybe these passages from the validation/tools page on this site are helpful:

Accurate Reflection  Communicate back that you've heard the other person accurately, and without bias. This can be done by repeating what the person said, though it can be better to paraphrase so you don't sound like a parrot. Proves that you are listening to what the other person is saying.

Reading Between the Lines/ Mindreading  Create a hypothesis about what you believe the other person is trying to say but maybe "not" expressing well. You can narrow this down by asking a question - guessing and asking if ___________ is accurate.

I think you likely won't be able to get the communication ball rolling again, which I am guessing is what you would like, communication instead of the silent treatment, unless something is said that helps "thaw" this situation. Would you agree that that is the case?

I know right now you and others are saying "don't apologize" you always do that, she doesn't, it's her/not you, but... .something has to be said. I don't claim to know what, but...

The last time I got the silent treatment I could have just said "it's all him, he's the total jerk, I'll just wait and be difficult and make him crawl back to me" but instead I said "I love you and I am here when you are ready to talk and resolve this." And I kept saying it although he was saying and doing horrible things.  

I don't feel bad about it though. In time he did apologize and I offered solutions and we got back on the same team. I don't think I actually apologized for anything, he is the one who had a total meltdown and broke up with me, but I did offer healing and soothing words that made it possible to resume communication and for both of us to feel better. I am not saying this is perfect or great, but I am glad we are talking again and living more normally at the moment.

Thanks Pearl.

I'm reading at the minute re.validation and if I ever get back to that stage where we're together, not separating / divorcing and we're actually speaking I do think there are a lot of techniques that can help me.


That's exactly right, I need to thaw the situation somehow. Then I need to learn your patience, learn how to be more passive with her maybe?

It's weird because that's what I've been trying to do and it's getting worse. Then everybody talks about boundaries and that's the only way forward. But she's impossible and she dominates me, how can you put a boundary down with somebody that doesn't really consider you?

Re.the apology I totally agree with you re.the re centering. But it's not easy, she knows what she wants to hear. She wants to blame me, full stop.

She left our holiday because we had an argument and I persued her slightly, wanting to talk about it and be on the same team, not always at loggerheads etc. She wanted silence. So technically I pushed her too far when she wanted silence.

I can apologise for not respecting her wishes and not giving her the space she needed.

But she left the holiday, said she wanted a divorce, lots of insults and hit me too before leaving, stayed with her brother for 10 days, silent treatment etc etc. It's an immense over reaction.

But she's expecting me to apologise... .


I'm not a proud person, I don't mind apologising. But I can't help but feel any apology right now enables her behaviour. Plus she's playing hardball still, doesn't want to speak if I'm to believe her message of today.

I literally want to get hold of my wife in my arms and tell her how much I love her. Tell her I'd do anything for her and to stop pressing the self destruct button. But from what I can read that's what every other husband on here with BPD wife wants to do - it falls on deaf ears. In fact it possibly engulfs them... .

I understand your pain. Though I've been through this literally hundreds of times and this last time I thought (and I always think) this is it, it is really over, what the heck do I do now?

But by just embodying love and setting aside blame he found his way back. I can't say for sure if she loves you or not. But if you do have a desire to have her back just take it easy and wait and see. When you do speak be kind.

He has overcharged my "credit card" of patience many times. In fact, if I had not ended up so financially dependent (being overseas) I may have thrown in the towel years ago. But I feel like this year when I finally just got clear that despite all this trouble I am committed, it helped him to go longer stretches without threatening break ups.

In a way, you have no other option too. I mean, a kid and a possible divorce/future custody issues/child-raising requires a lot of communicating so there is no time like the present to help you get your personal skills in order. (We can all always learn to be better communicators! :) )

I soothed myself during the breakup phase with Buddhist dharma talks on Youtube. Just random ones so to hear a human voice so I wasn't so lonely. But they also help train you with letting go of things.  

I also read here about "Radical Acceptance" and I think that concept could help you too if you want to be together.

Perhaps an "apology" that is really just an invitation back to communication is that "I wish we had been able to have a more enjoyable vacation. I know we both feel sad that you left. That was not my intention. We are both feeling overwhelmed. We are both disappointed with our communication. I am here and waiting when feel ready to talk and move forward. We don't have to agree on everything in order to move forward."

I don't know what to offer really, but I do know silence is deadly for a relationship. If there is any way to not let it go on and restart communication I hope you can both do so. I hope she starts missing you and getting her emotions back into balance and is receptive.

Maybe also expressing some empathy for her stresses with her father's illness, etc., etc. Although her emotions are off the charts at times, validating them at their base might mean something to her. "I know you are having a hard time. I mean to be supportive. etc., etc."

Best wishes with all! Sending lots of kindness and peace your way! :)

Oh, and I don't consider myself "passive" (and I don't want you to be either! :) ) I'm just calm and clear and not willing to go nuts though I am often very insulted and provoked. I just don't engage in that kind of stuff whenever possible, and it is almost always possible. It is not easy, I am in an apartment building, on a top floor, and there is no real way to get away from it all. I have learned to never let myself get trapped alone in the room when he wants to say stuff that I know is gonna be mean. I just go to a neutral room we can both walk out of if it gets to be too much.

I had a bf once years ago and all of his stuff (he was not BPD just depressed and falling apart and messing up our lives) used to drive me nuts and I ended up having heart issues. Chest pains and stress, etc. After that I decided I didn't want to lose my temper anymore. No more of that. I stayed calm for me, but it helped the whole picture overall. It really does help to not throw fuel onto someone else's emotional fire. :)

When I do lose my temper I apologize immediately for speaking in such a way. I want to get the apology out there and get that behind me as fast as possible. Meditation practice is great for slowing your reaction times and having compassion for others. (I haven't done it in years now, but I am still reaping the benefits of it in terms of calmness!) You can look at them so clearly and see them as suffering beings. It really is not as personal as it all seems. :) You wouldn't get mad at a cranky old guy or gal in a wheelchair in a convalescent hospital or a crying kid. That is what it is, either someone who can't communicate, or is not in their right mind. No reason to be mad about it. :) For me too, when I see it as an "illness" it helps me not see him as an "evil jerk" which is honestly what  I wondered for a long time. Why is he literally the most awful person I have ever met? How did this happen? I see him as someone in pain instead. Take care! :) Take care!

I get not wanting to enable her behavior. I do. But I think unless you can get her talking again you are heading for a divorce that you may not want. If you don't want a divorce getting her talking and then once communication is reestablished both apologizing for the breakdown on the vacation for whatever you can dream up to apologize for big or small could work. There is always something to be sorry for. Believe me.  Even if it is just sorry that you misread each other's feelings, or are sorry that the vacation didn't work out. She hit you and she needs to acknowledge that, and stop such behavior, but shutting down while waiting for apologies gets ya'll nowhere. :) Just my two cents! I may be totally off! :) Sorry if I am! :) See how fun that was?  (just being a little cheeky)

One last set of thoughts for you to sit with/meditate over:

"Here are just a few ways to better communication with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder:

Provide Validation
Many people with Borderline Personality Disorder were raised in homes with an invalidating environment in which their feelings, desires, and concerns were frequently dismissed as being wrong or unmerited. People with BPD can seem irrational. They often overreact to perceived slights and misinterpret other people’s intentions.

It’s easy to respond to them at times with phrases such as, “That’s ridiculous. I don’t know how you can feel that way when I was just asking you a simple question.” Statements like this may seem like a rational response to an irrational reaction on the part of the person with BPD, but what they do is effectively discount the person’s feelings and further escalate their emotions.

Validation can make a world of difference. Replace the above response with something such as, “Let me understand. When I asked you about work, it made you feel as if I think you are doing poorly at your job? I can see how that would upset you.” By simply acknowledging how the person with BPD feels, we do not condone bad behavior or rage, but we do demonstrate that we are listening and not judging their emotions.

Other Tips for Better Communication with Someone with BPD
When someone with Borderline Personality Disorder feels heard, understood, and validated, they are much more likely to engage in problem solving. Here are some other things you can do to improve communication with your loved one with BPD:

Listen. Provide your full attention when your loved one is talking. Ask questions and repeat back what they’ve said to show that you heard them. Keep distractions to a minimum and set aside time devoted to talking.
Be patient. Don’t get frustrated. Understand that communication may be difficult for your loved one with BPD and it may take them some time to feel comfortable communicating with you.
Think before you speak. Instead of responding immediately to what your loved one has said, take some time to think about your response. This may allow you to find a better way to respond that furthers your communication instead of stifling it."

Perhaps you could validate her feelings, show you understand, without apologizing to her if you don't feel any need/reason to apologize? Just saying "I understand how that made you feel" is not an apology, but it might break the silence. Can you write to her? :)

I feel like I could have written this myself.  I am together with my wife in a relationship... .there are many variables that I just posted in my introduction and too many to go into in one response.

The codependent side kicks in for me all the time.  I feel bad for certain things and am my own harshest critic, I am also never shy to admit that I am wrong.  These are traits that I do not witness in my wife.  I also travel a lot and get nostalgic, I am a home body and just want a comfortable home, one that may or may not exist at this point. 

I understand getting stronger as I just ready "Facing Codepency."  It helped me address things in a different manner and stop interjecting when I am not needed or when a convo is headed for a brick wall, triangulation.  I take myself out of scenarios and let them speak for themselves.  Am I surprised at the outcome... .no.  It also takes a tremendous amount of pressure off of my shoulders.

How did you get to the point where you knew it was best to split?  I battle with the thought every 10 minutes... .it's so hard.  I don't know what is best for my two young daughters and I.

Thanks for your insight and strength to post!

Hi Pearl, I'll send you a PM message, I'm all for the validation techniques etc but I'm very conscious not to enable her behaviour. There's probably a fine line to tread!

For Allan,
I'm the same. I desire nothing more than a stable homelife, I'd love to have my wife, my son and my dog in a conflict free environment. Eat nice food, watch nice movies & spend quality time with our son. I want something that I don't think I will ever have with my BPD wife.

I will take note of the book 'Facing CoDep', it will help me I imagine. That and the valdidation techniques that Pearl sends over etc. Problem is that I may have no more chance / opportunity for either.

It's in the lap of the Gods. We're Limited Contact, she doesn't want to speak to me. She might change her stance, she might not. I currently view it like this:

She doesn't & wants a divorce: I'm only 32, I'll bounce back and I'll be in a happy loving relationship in the future with somebody else. I'll dedicate myself to my son and give him everything he needs and he won't witness constant conflict & he'll understand normality from my side of the family.

She does get back in touch and we recycle: I imagine it will be last chance saloon. I'll study and learn and try to adapt my ways. I doubt it will work. I think that I'll find myself in the same position again and again. But I'll get the short term gratification of being with the woman I love (adore) and with my son. Acting out the fantasy / idealised version of life that's so far from the photos and images that we send to family and friends. The reality is that it's a sham - any chance of improving it / fixing it and creating a marriage? I sure hope so. I'd love nothing more. But I'm a realist, I've read the site, I've seen the symptoms, etc etc.



But I believe we all have a path. What will be will be and I'll become a better person having lived through all this. It will make me stronger :)