BPDFamily.com

I think this is it. I need to get out. My uBPDh's rage at me has been escalating and it's clear that his values are not aligned with mine any longer. It started with the election and has only gotten worse over time. Since a simple disagreement with his statement on our neighborhood's forum on social media on Tuesday, he has been terrorizing me every day. I come home from work, and he rages against me. I have had to lock myself in rooms to get away from him, as he is roaring at me, red faced and furious. He's traumatizing the dog and causing me to lose sleep when I work an extremely stressful job. He threatened to burn my house down last night if I left.

He doesn't work and hasn't done anything more than intermittent Uber driving for our whole relationship. I paid for him to do real estate school this summer and he loved the classes, and took the tests, but now hasn't followed up with looking for work. I paid for his resident visa and lawyer fees to immigrate here. I have supported his medical expenses, bought him a car, and paid for every single thing he owns. He will keep up with the car maintenance and clean the kitchen, garage, and basement, but that is about it. Some days he stays in bed for a full day, sometimes half a day.

My health is suffering. I've gained 30 lbs in a year and cannot exercise regularly because he often decides to either pick a fight with me in the evening, or is generally disruptive to my sleep. I'm exhausted and run down. I'm miserable. I feel as though I cannot voice my opinions anymore because he claims I'm "narrow-minded" and "ignorant" because I won't tolerate hateful language.

I'm big hearted, but I am hurting. I just want to curl up in a little ball and make this nightmare disappear. And the worst of it is, when he's done raging at me and abusing me, he tries to be affectionate and act like nothing is wrong. And then, when I reject his affection, he plays the victim. "You hate me," he pouts. "I guess I'll just go jump off of a bridge." It's manipulation, abuse, and torture. I can't do this anymore. It's a roller coaster cycle: catalyst-rage-victimhood-catalyst-rage-victimhood. I'm ragged.

But leaving seems so big, looming and scary. I don't live in a terribly safe neighborhood, so being alone is a little bit terrifying. I also know he will make me the "bad guy" over breaking things off. I scared of what that will mean, and whether he will try to self harm. What are some baby steps I could take toward getting my freedom from all of this? Please help.
 

Please worry about your own safety first... .he can and will do whatever to/for himself.

Perhaps it would make you feel better if you left the door open.

When you have real estate job and are open with me and your counselor about rage... .I will consider a future with you.

Nobody... .nobody should put up with rage like that.
 

Hello Witzendwife,


First I want to give you a very big hug because I think you can do with one 

Only you can decide what is best for you, leaving him or not. But you do have to think about your safety. You could prepare a bag with cloths and some money, that you can take with you if you have to leave very quickly. You could  put the car keys where he wouldn't look for them.You can think about a safe place to go when things get really bad : a friend, a hotel, ... .So you can drive off quickly if necessary.


 I think the danger might be coming rather from inside your house, then from outside ... .

xx

Hi WitzEndWife,

what you're going through sounds very, very hard to cope with. Know that you are not alone. Many of us can surely relate to your situation, which may not make it any easier to bear, but perhaps a little more tolerable.


Though there is no magic wand that can make it go away, there are definitely some steps you can take.

As other posters suggested, your safety should be the first priority.

Given the situation, your options and moves should be considered carefully and wisely. Reacting emotionally or "in the heat of the moment" is likely going to augment the confusion and lead to unwanted outcomes. This might be a helpful place to start with:

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety_first.pdf (https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety_first.pdf)

Also, i would advise you to seek professional support, possibly from a local domestic abuse service. Besides supporting you psychologically and emotionally they could help you to design a safety plan and provide precious information. If there are any close friends or family with whom you could share your concerns and, eventually, rely upon for help, it could be wise to reach out.

In my experience, as well as from the many stories i read on here, facing such situations on our own is simply not the best solution., especially if you're already in a state of exhaustion, sleep deprivation and high amounts of stress. An external support system could give you the strength and resources you need right now, and make you feel less lonely and vulnerable.

How long have you two been living together? Does he have any relatives or friends around? Is he totally dependent on you financially?

Please let us know how you're doing, whenever you can or feel like it. I'm sending my thoughts to you and wish you will be better soon,

Jami

WEW,
I am so sorry you're dealing with this. It's a huge burden upon your shoulders to cope with a rage-ful, threatening, unemployed spouse. I know because I've lived it too. You are exhausted and sleep deprived and unable to speak your mind to him without feeling attacked.

I see a lot of parallels to my ex-husband: the threats to burn down the house, the verbal abuse, the suicide threats, the wanting affection after behaving like a horrible person.

I, too, was scared about leaving. I wasn't sure if I could manage things on my own, with horses and livestock, plus working an additional job as well as running our business. But I did. It took putting in place new systems and strategies. Ultimately I realized that I could do everything much easier without him and all the negativity he was spewing 24/7.

If you feel unsafe in your neighborhood, you have a number of choices: install a security system, move to a different place, get a roommate, etc.

I know it all seems daunting right now, but you don't have to do everything at once. I know you're exhausted right now, but imagine what your future could look like if you create new possibilities for yourself.

     Cat

Hi all - thanks for the support. It's been a rough week overall. I'm still kind of in a holding pattern with him. I've talked and talked with him about how I don't feel safe, and how, in order for me to feel safe, I need to have him attend therapy again and deal with his anger and his trauma. He says he will go to therapy, as long as he gets to choose the therapist. I told him that was okay.

But ultimately nothing makes me feel good about our relationship. During the election, something switched in him, and it felt like our values diverged. On the one hand, when we're face to face, he agrees with me on many things, but then I see him posting and commenting awful things on Facebook. He says he's "just trolling." I know some of that is this BPD victim mentality, and the need to lash out, but I don't know if it will ever change. It's like he found ideologies that spoke to him and he latched onto them.

And the problem is that, when I mention that our values might be different, he says, "I'm tolerant of your views, why can't you be tolerant of mine?" But some things just don't sit right with me. However, he's going to paint me as being "intolerant" - because, of course, I'm the bad guy for having opinions that differ from his.

I'm struggling through what to do, and what will actually be "the last straw" with me. How long do I want to put up with this? On the one hand, he can be very loving most of the time, and helpful in his own ways. But on the other hand, his values and comments are starting to make me sick to my stomach. And there's the fear of another rage blowout, where I'll have to lock myself in the bathroom again.

Why is it that I care more about his feelings than about mine? I fear leaving because it will feel like kicking a puppy. Why do I allow myself to be manipulated? I love him but I don't like him half of the time. And that's where I am.

I didn't leave for a long time because despite the verbal abuse and rage there WAS something very pathetic about him and his inability to function and regulate. I relate to your "kicking the puppy" analogy.

Something to consider - my "puppy" beat my face in.

Whatever you choose - PLEASE pack a safety bag to keep in your car. Put away a little cash for just in case. Have friends or family "on call" who are aware of the situation and who would be able/willing to pick you up or give you a place to stay if necessary.

He will always look out for himself. Please make sure you are looking out for YOU.

 

Lala

While his politics may be feeding into his anger, I think it may help to separate this difference between you and the larger concern which is your mental health and safety.

Two people don't have to share the same political views to be compatible or at least civil to each other. Political discussions these days tend to be emotional. I'd leave those discussions off the table for now. At the heart of the issue is his behavior over his own bad feelings and how he is expressing them- trolling, being verbally abusive. However, those are his choices.

How you take care of yourself is a bigger focus. A decision like leaving seems huge- but at the moment you are exhausted and worn down. I agree with the other posters to have a safety first plan- a packed bag in your car should the situation become dangerous. It is a good thing that you are the main financial support- as this means you are not dependent on him and can take care of yourself in this way.

There are domestic abuse hotlines and social services.  If you call - they may be able to refer you to counseling. That would be a first step in getting support for taking care of yourself.

I know it is scary, but if you choose yourself, you get calmness, peace and a sense of "yourself" back... .your thoughts will become familiar to you, because it is who you were before all of the trauma... .being who I am, I would consider giving all of those up for love, however toward the end of my relationship I had a big belly for me and very low energy... .now I have lost the belly, go for walks, play tennis and sleep 8 hours a night... .I have lost the symbol of my love which is my ex,  but I still have the love inside me and am able to give it to myself... .Hope you are able to get the respect you deserve and things start looking up for you... .Peace love and virtue be with you

But ultimately nothing makes me feel good about our relationship.

Please re-read your words above. What are you getting from this relationship? What would your life be like 5 years from now if you stay? What would your life be like 5 years from now if you leave?

Please be safe and put in place safety measures others have mentioned. As I posted on another topic, they'd never hurt you until they do.

Thank you all! I really want to again say how much I appreciate and value the support. I know you all know this isn't easy. I have concretely decided that, no matter what, if he rages at me again, I'm done. I don't deserve to feel scared in my own home. I will go on and pack a bag this weekend, and I will pack a bag for my dog too, so that we can leave in a hurry if we have to. I already have video of him screaming at me and using abusive language, so that will go a long way in court.

Thank you for your help.

My goal is to help you think things through... .

I agree the video could be helpful in court.  Can you be more specific about what exactly it will do?  To what "end" or "goal" will the video help you to move forward on... legally?

So... .imagine I'm a fly on the wall with a big set of eyes and ears.

It's a week from now and he rages at you.

What do I see YOU doing and what do I hear YOU saying?

Very important you have thought this through and you understand what you are doing at each step... .and why you are doing it.

Have you called your local 911/sheriff office and asked if they do "text to 911".  If not... .please do this.  (I've been county executive a couple times, basically CEO of county government)  It has proven, in some cases, to be less triggering and more advantageous than "calling 911". 

Think about it... .he is raging and instead of "dialing" and him hearing you talk to dispatch, you can text your address and request response for DV.  He will be none the wiser until cops are showing up.

Again... this is about preparation, which will give you confidence.

FF

I didn't even know there was a text to 911 service. But, for the next rage, I will grab my bag and my dog and go to either my best friend's house or my parents' house. I will not engage, I will not tell him what I'm doing, I will just get in the car and go.

This is why I'm glad you posted your plans... .I want to offer some alternatives.  I hope you will consider them.

Leaving without saying anything, if that is a "new" think... .could be triggering.  Much better to have a habit of saying... .I'm going to get some air... .I'll be back in 10 minutes.  Then... .if you decide to go... you just go... .and he rages at nothing.

I'm going to be frank here... .a bag should be in your trunk... .so there is no change in patter to trigger him.  If he sees you carrying a bag and dog out... .without talking, I'm confident that will be triggering to him.  We just don't know how much.

Much better to say... .I need to clear my head and fido needs to pee and walk... .I'll be back in 10 minutes, even though it's a lie.

Do you see the thought?

Now... .if you are done.  Why leave?  Text or call 911, when officers arrive show them the videos in past and what he just did (likely threatening you) and he is likely gone.  To take the likely out of it, you should talk to DV and police to understand what they would make someone leave for/arrest.

Especially if you indicate you are taking out a protection order.

Basically, why give up the house... .if you are "done" the next rage.  You will have to remove him at somepoint... .why not then?   Perhaps there is a good answer to "why not"... .but you should have that clear in your head.

FF

WitzEndWife,

I hope you are having a safe weekend.  I want to agree with formflier's advice about leaving in a subtle way.  Embarrassingly, I have a lot of experience leaving the house.  A couple of months ago, my wife saw that I was leaving, and moved to block my path as I tried a couple of exit routes.  As she followed, I left through the front door.  To my surprise, she went to the front walk to block my path, then charged me like a football player, running into me to drive me back into the house.  I was able to grab the door frame to stop us, then push past her.  It was shocking and upsetting as it was, but if she had been physically dominant, it would have been terrifying.  My point is that leaving can be a big trigger.  That day, I wasn't prepared.  When I'm prepared, I have a bag hidden on the side of the house, and I wait until she doesn't expect me to leave and I have a clear path out.  I also have spare sets of car keys and house keys in various places, along with cash and a cash card.  Formflier's "walking the dog" suggestion sounded like a good one.  

You asked about baby steps to take towards getting your freedom.  I agree with the comments to take the time to plan.  I have three suggestions.  Two of them, reading a book and keeping a journal, are definitely baby steps and you can do them easily.  The third, finding a lawyer, may feel like a big step, but I explain why it would be a good thing to do and is actually much less scary if you do it now, when it's not urgent.
 
Please consider reading the book, "Splitting," by Bill Eddy (have you read it already by chance?).  It is specifically about divorcing someone with BPD.  Just like living with a pwBPD has all sorts of patterns and behaviors, so does divorcing someone with BPD.  Eddy is both a lawyer and a therapist; I found it to be a pretty exceptional book written specifically for the situation I might face.  I spend most of my time on the "Improving" board and may never divorce, but I found that reading the book helped me to prepare and made it feel like I had more of a choice -- leaving was less daunting because I knew more about the path.  I keep all my BPD books in Kindle form on a separate Amazon account I have on my iPhone, with the Kindle app buried many screens back, and in a folder.  This solves the problem of a paper book lying around the house. (Plus you can have it tonight

Are you keeping a journal?  A journal can be a big help for at least three reasons.  First, it can help you get some perspective on what's happening to you.  Whenever my wife makes verbal threats, is physically abusive, blocks my path, steals my car keys or important possessions, I write it in my journal (which happens to be on my phone, so I always have it with me).  First, it's very cathartic to write it down, and it helps me to keep my temper cool.  Second, it solves the problem that I would forget bad things that happened and minimize them; when I read it later, I see the amount of abnormality and destructiveness of what's going on with more objectivity.  Third, the journal shows a clear and convincing pattern of abuse.  One recording is helpful, but doesn't show a pattern.  I was initially very scared that my wife could play the "good guy" and nobody would believe me.  With the journal, I now feel very confident about being able to tell my story, and several journal entries over a period of time can be a huge help in getting a restraining order (don't stay in an unsafe situation because your journal is too short, though!).  I would advise that you not let your husband know about it, and certainly never let him see you writing in it, as that could be triggering.

Finally, I would urge you to consider finding a divorce attorney.  Why would you possibly do that if you're not sure you want to leave?  The attorney is the one who will file the restraining order.  You want someone who you trust, who you can work with through a very difficult time (and divorcing someone with BPD can be a tough journey).  If you need a restraining order, you may need it in a hurry, and you don't want to find an attorney in a hurry.  You want to have the time to talk to a handful and get a sense of who matches your style/needs and who does not.  "Splitting" has advice about finding an attorney.  Mediation is one option that can reduce conflict; finding an attorney who can represent you traditionally, or as a consulting attorney supporting mediation can be a good thing to do.

This is a difficult time.  Stay safe in body and spirit.  Keep us posted, and best wishes for you to find a peaceful and fulfilling path forward.

Hi WitzEndWife,

I was reflecting on my earlier reply a bit, and wanted to offer some more thoughts.  One of the challenges for me is to respect the intent of the original post, especially if the thread gets long.  You asked for baby steps.  Restraining orders and talking to divorce lawyers are not baby steps.  They are potentially important tools, and your thoughts may have evolved since the original post, but after making my first reply, I wondered if maybe that's not what you're looking for just yet.  Talking to a divorce lawyer really helped me, but there's no rush; you can wait on that one if it doesn't fit now.  The important thing is for you to decide which of our thoughts to pick up and apply in a way that feels right for you.

The suggestion of local support really feels right.  If you are hiding in a bathroom because the rage feels physically threatening, that's not OK.  Having a live human trained in these things to talk through what you might do in that situation seems like a really good idea.  Do not think that you need to be struck in order to call a domestic violence hotline.  The folks there would probably hug you with joy to hear from you before that happens.  Even if we knew your husband would never hit you, it's still not OK to have to hide in the bathroom from a rage storm, and the local folks would still be happy to talk to you to help you walk through options for improving the situation.

Another thing I caught on a second read of the thread is your level of exhaustion.  That has to get better soon.  You said he is disruptive to your sleep.  What does he do to disrupt your sleep?

Thanks again for all of the responses. As you know, it's hard to leave, especially when they're being all wounded and clingy, and overcompensating for everything (60 percent of the time over here). I can tell when he's just waiting to find something to be angry about though. He nitpicks at me for not being affectionate enough, or for looking at my phone too much, or for complaining about his crazy driving. I know he's purposefully trying to get under my skin, with sweeping generalizations about me based on small incidents, i.e. "You're ALWAYS complaining about me," "You hate me," "Go back into your can, Oscar! You're ALWAYS grouchy," etc. Poke, poke, poke.

Nothing has happened lately, but I know he's feeling bad about himself and he's just looking for an outlet. He raged when I wasn't home about getting a late fee on his Macy's card. I feel sorry for the poor customer service person who had to deal with him.

I have for certain decided that I will leave at the next rage incident. He knows that too. I told him that I don't deserve to be treated that way, and, no matter what, such behavior is never okay. He has agreed with me, but I don't think for one second that he will be keen on me leaving. In the past, he hasn't tried to stop me. Instead, he has threatened his own suicide, which, of course, is manipulative. I think he would be okay with me saying, "I just need to go somewhere overnight until things cool down," or something to that effect. I shouldn't threaten to leave unless I can ensure that he has support as well (i.e. his mom).

I think a journal or diary would be a good idea. And, of course, support from here is helpful. It's particularly useful when I feel stuck and alone. I've been feeling very alone lately, mainly because I don't have the energy to spend time with friends outside of him, and because I've gained weight, I don't feel good about dressing up and going out for a drink or to a show with friends. I have my family, but it's also awkward to tell them everything because I'm not trying to let them know just how bad it's gotten. They know some, and they already don't like him, but they're trying to be accepting, and I feel like they wouldn't be as accepting if they knew the full extent of his meanness toward me.

Maybe talking to a lawyer wouldn't be a bad idea. This is something I could do just to understand what my options are and just how much a divorce would cost me, given that he's barely made any effort to work the entire time we've been together and married, and I've paid for his immigration lawyer and fees, his car, his car and health insurance, our mortgage, groceries, food, dental bills, medicine, clothing, schooling, school supplies, entertainment, etc. Over the course of our relationship, I've probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on him. I don't know if that means anything in a no fault state, and I probably will still have to give him money to get out of this. What a kicker. Sigh. Hopefully I can keep the house.

I guess I'm just rambling now. Thanks for listening anyhow. I'm going to grab that book and try to read it in the few precious moments he's not around!

pwBPD rarely respect words.  They respect the "facts on the ground", even if they don't verbalize them well.

Where am I going with this.

I have a hard time with you "leaving" on the next rage incident... .instead of involving authorities and having him removed.  

This alone is a reason to involve a lawyer... .so you know for sure what kinds of things the local authorities will support

You don't want to ask for a protection order... .only to have it denied.

A L can guide you.

Please don't "shield" your hubby from the natural consequences of his behavior... ."shielding" removes his incentive to change.

Please don't "fix" or "arrange" things for him so you leaving or him getting kicked out goes better.  Let him "experience" it... .fully.

He may not change... .or he may.  He is more likely to change with a "more full" experience.

How does all of this sound to you?

Have you found out about 911 procedures?

FF

I am finding it a challenge to balance my concerns for WitzEndWife's safety with the need to let her chart her own course.  I feel too far removed from the situation to accurately assess things, and am cautious about the balance of carefully challenging WitzEndWife and trusting her judgement.  I also return to the title of the original post, though, "Scared of him.  Please help." 

WitzEndWife, how physically safe do you feel?  Do you have an intuition that you are in physical danger?  (I am not saying that a lack of intuition means safety, but an intuition of danger is a sign that should not be ignored).

If you see a lawyer, you'll probably get a good lesson for free from them.  If you don't have a lot of time and energy, you may decide to just see one or two and leave it at that for now.  The first lawyer you see does not have to be your "forever" lawyer.  It's kind of like dating.  You may need to kiss a few frogs.  To mix metaphors, if you go to a surgeon, they are probably going to recommend surgery, because that's what they do.  Some lawyers have a rather limited range, and may recommend actions that don't seem in line with your goals or style.  If you get to a point where you want to find that "forever" lawyer, keep looking until you find one that has a wide range, from calm resolution to full battle (leading with the former hopefullly), who listens to, and who is good about returning your calls in a professional amount of time.

Dear WitzEndWife,
I've been following your post and feel compelled to write to you. I'm new here too and going through many of the same emotions and situations you are. There is a lot of good advice on here from people who've been there and have helped many others before. Start with the things that seem the easiest to do now. Every little step is important and will help.

I was in the same place as you at one time, hiding in the bathroom, running away from him, driving off only to have him follow me, etc. I even sat outside a police station when I was 7 months pregnant trying to tell myself to just go in and do something about it. I don't know why I didn't, but I'm starting to come out of the fog. I don't know why, but reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells: 2nd Edition" by Paul T., Mason, MS and Randi Kreger was a turning point for me. Understanding that this is a mental illness was huge. Also coming to the realization that he was unlikely to get help or change was another. I've been going through the stages of Grief, and am coming to acceptance. I'm accepting that this is not the marriage or the life I thought I would have. I'm accepting that it will be hard to leave, hard to start a new life, hard to deal with losing the house, hard to deal with a custody battle for our 2 kids, hard to lose my amazing step-son, etc. But I also accept that it would be much harder to live my life every day with this stress and pressure. Our husbands sound very similar, I support our family almost 100% and his spending habits have put us into serious debt. For me, getting out now will actually help me financially in the long run because I won't have to support his spending anymore and will be responsible for myself. Even if I have to pay him support, it's inevitable, at least it will be a set amount of money each month rather than uncontrolled spending all the time. Ironically, I've also paid a significant amount of money towards legal fees he still incurs in fighting his ex-wife for custody of their son. Unbelievably, I'm dealing with guilt now, guilt of how he will feel, how this will affect him, what it will do to him. But that reminds me that I am an empathetic person and that he hasn't been giving me empathy in all this. I need to look out for me, since he isn't going to. I'm finally meeting with a counselor and am meeting with a divorce attorney this week to discuss my options. One thing to keep in mind is that most lawyers don't do free consultations so make sure you are putting aside some cash regularly so that you'll have the money to pay for a consult if you need one.

I just keep telling myself to take one day at a time. Making a plan and following it has really helped too. It gives me something to focus on rather than feeling so hurt and helpless about my relationship. It will be hard, but each little step forward breaks that hurt into smaller pieces that I can digest before tackling the next one. Talking about it out loud with a counselor helps with that too. I don't know why, but vocalizing it really makes it real, so you can deal with the emotions that it brings. I also understand it's hard to confide in family and friends. But you will realize that you have some really good people in your life that will be there for you even though you may not do what they think you should. Sadly, I lost all contact with my entire family 5 years ago because of this relationship and it was really hard to find people I could trust in my life. But I finally started opening up about my pain and it really helps.

Being on here is a great step and I wish you all the best. There are so many others out there going through this with you, you are not alone.

All my best,
Applesauce

To be clear... .leaving is often a good thing, many times the best thing to do.

Especially doing it with tools... .(such as "I'm going for a walk for 5 minutes).  I still do this today.

Again... .don't "hear" anything in my words to "pooh pooh" those things.

There is a difference in "done" and "done for now".  That's a big leap.  The OP is considering when to take that leap.

IMO... taking that leap, for the reasons she is bringing up, without involving authorities... .leaves a lot on the table and could likely leave the OP in a weird position of trying to "reclaim her home".

Also... .as we have seen from other posts... .leaving can inflame BPD to the point of physical things.

Much better to "know" what it takes for a protection order and to have cops arrest and take a person away.  When that line is crossed, surreptitiously contact 911 (text to 911... .if you have it) and the pwBPD is none the wiser until cops show up.

Then... .the professionals handle it.

There are "plans" and then there is what happens.  I'm most interested in the planning part of this for the OP.

FF

Well said, formflier.  The planning/learning is good, and empowers one to choose the best path.  In fact, just yesterday, I was thinking of introducing myself to the local police just to understand how they handle things.  I'm not ready for that yet, but you are making good points.

So many questions. I'll try to answer.

So, they don't have texting to 911 yet in my area, unfortunately. They do in some areas of the county, but not in the city. So, I'd have to actually call them. I don't feel comfortable with calling the police on my husband. I know that doesn't seem rational to some of you, but it feels a bit over the top and I don't know if I could live with myself if he was taken away in a squad car. Furthermore, he has nowhere to go. At least, if I left, we could each figure things out.

I'm at a loss because I typically don't believe that he could hurt me. On the other hand, when he's raging like that, it feels like he wants to beat me up with his words. Does that make sense? And he kicks things and throws things around that belong to me, so if I separate myself from him, he will be less likely to damage my things and continue to emotionally wound me. I am also cognizant of the fact that this is how a lot of physically abusive relationships begin. They never mean to hit. I get that. I just haven't yet experienced it, with the exception of a light slap once, rage driving, and mushed banana being thrown at me. It's hard to predict whether those actions are the apex of this or not.

I've read Walking on Eggshells, and that was a valuable book and helped me get more independence from him in a lot of ways. I now don't feel bad for staying late at work, or going to see friends when I want to.

At this point, I honestly don't know if I'm strong enough to kick him out because of the emotional backlash and the guilt. The fact that he's wholly dependent on me, and he's said previously that if we ever split, he would just jump off of a bridge because there would be nothing left for him, and he wouldn't go back to his mother's house at 40 years old. Is this enabling? Maybe. I don't seem to have the energy to assess that anymore. I'm just exhausted.

Big question... .why are you in charge of solving things for your husband?

It's a serious question... .

I've had different answers to that for my wife over the years... .I can tell you that I used to think more like you do now.

It is very important that YOU sort on on YOUR timetable the how and the why of taking responsibility for another adult.

And that those reasons are crystal clear in your mind.

   

This is not easy stuff... .

FF

Feel compelled to chime in here in support of FF and the idea of not just leaving. What happened to me wasn't "my fault" per say, but if I'm completely honest and reflective I know that I could have avoided being violently assaulted if I had approached my exit in a different way. I knew my leaving had always been extremely triggering even when done carefully.

A word of caution - don't discount his potential to act out physically. After my assault, I ordered all the documents on public record that I could for my ex. The first official statements on file were from his first wife who was seeking help because he was verbally aggressive to her (she explicitly states that he hadn't been physical towards her) but holding knives to his own throat while physically threatening himself. This is an extremely complicated mental illness that can express itself in a myriad of ways and can change over time and depending on the triggering circumstance.

  Be careful... .

Lala

WEW, your situation sounds familiar to mine as well. However, my husband didn't go into rages until I stopped managing his emotions and I filed for divorce. I was terrified of him when he went into these rages. He then blamed me for it. I tried very hard to de-escalate as much as I could, by going for walks or "simply" not reacting. He would also threaten to leave and that he would kill himself. I was exhausted from having to deal with him and not knowing when the next rage would come or why. It was hell and I hated it. There was no "us" anymore. His needs and wants came before mine, regardless of what he claimed. Once I stopped managing his emotions (exhausting in itself), I then saw a whole other side of him I had never seen before and it wasn't good.

I knew in my heart I had to leave him but it seemed to be too overwhelming especially since I was already exhausted every day. I didn't sleep well at all and neither did the kids. For the majority of my life (I'm in my 40s), I had dissociated as a coping mechanism to abuse. Before I had filed for divorce, I went to therapy and had started to finally deal with feeling my emotions. For me, I knew I had to leave when he provoked me into a rage by pushing every button he could think of right when I had just started my therapy. While I was sobbing on the floor after my rage, he then told me I was unstable and a danger to the kids. I knew at that point that he didn't really care about me. Who does that to someone they claim to love? What kind of person intentionally pushes your buttons like that when you had just started therapy? I had hit my last straw. I didn't want to be with someone like this. He never saw a problem with what he did and still doesn't. At that time, I didn't have the tools I have now to deal with something like that appropriately.

So I can understand where you're coming from. I'm afraid for you to reach that last straw because it may be a doozy and I'd hate to see anyone go through something like what I went through, especially when you're afraid of him and have to lock yourself in the bathroom. I also really do understand why you say that calling the police feels over the top. I thought the very same thing too when my friends told me to call the police on him. I just couldn't see myself doing that. Then that day came.

He had moved out as part of the temp orders for the divorce. He went into a rage when he found out I had a male friend over at the house. He came over and beat on the door demanding to be let in. He ended up breaking the door in. After almost twenty years with him, I never in a million years thought he would do something like that yet he did. I was terrified! I called the police. By the time they got there, he had left. It scared the crap out of the kids too. The police told me I did the right thing by calling them.

You wrote that he tells you he won't go back to his mother's house. My ex said the same thing to me but ended up moving in with her anyway. He also threatened to kill himself. IMO, this is pure manipulation to guilt you into doing whatever he wants you to do. As harsh as it sounds, ultimately that is his decision. Chances are he is just bluffing and won't follow through. Mine rarely followed through with any of his threats. Does yours have a history of bluffing? When mine claimed to be suicidal, I politely suggested that he see a therapist then. When he was seeing a therapist, I told her that I was concerned with what he said. She thanked me for telling her and that I did the right thing by telling her.

This may sound really harsh and mean but his not having a place to go really isn't YOUR problem. It is HIS. It sounds to me that he wants YOU to solve HIS problems when that is NOT your responsibility. It sounds like he has you convinced his problems are your responsibility to solve. Mine did that to me too and I still struggling with it at times. We are adults here. He needs to solve his own problems. If the shoe were on the other foot, would he be that nice to you? Or would he kick you out in a heart beat? I came up with my own plan of getting my own place in case I needed to move out. It turned out I didn't need it because he "volunteered" to move out.

I did manage to divorce him. It wasn't easy by any means but I did it. I'm happy to say that I can now take care of myself and my kids. Now I sleep without fear. Now my kids sleep well. Now I can go to MY home without fear of what he will say or do next. I finally feel free and safe.

I completely agree with baby steps and taking one thing at a time. It is ultimately up to you to decide what you want to do. Here is what I did, in case any of it may help you.

My first step was deciding whether to stay or go. I decided I wanted out of the relationship for my own safety, my kids' safety, and our mental health. You may not have reached a point like that and I can understand that.

Next, I told people (friends, family) I could trust that I was going to divorce him. I also told them I was afraid because of his rages. We came up with a code. We agreed that I would text them a simple code if he went into a rage and they'd call the police for me. I was too scared of what he might do if I called the police with him there.

During all of this, I also kept a journal. I kept it out of the house so he wouldn't find it. I would go to the bathroom and jot notes on my phone so I wouldn't forget what had happened or let him gaslight me into thinking I imagined it all. I would write about it in my journal later. I also saw a trauma therapist who helped me tremendously through this. She helped me realize I wasn't crazy and his behavior was not healthy.

I also got a free consultation with an established divorce attorney. I learned what my rights were. I learned how the process worked. It helped aleviate a lot of my fears. I put an exit plan into place and adjusted it when I needed to.

I got a PO box. I opened up a checking account in my name only and slowly put money into it with a note in the system that no one was to use it but me.

The whole process was exhausting and nerve-wracking for me but I persisted, one day at a time. I'm glad I didn't give up because I've never been happier in my life than I am now.

I agree with the others that no one should go through what you've gone through. I really wish the best for you and that you find what you are looking for. Given what I went through and what you're describing, I understand your hesitation to kick him out. Nothing is ever simple, it seems. Especially when you're exhausted. It's hard to think straight. I really want to give you a big hug. Hang in there. I understand none of this is easy for you.

Thank you for your story. I do realize that it is not up to me to manage his emotions, and that he is likely bluffing when it comes to the whole suicide bit. I don't want to waste my life feeling awful about my relationship. I've realized that, not only does he have BPD, but that our values are completely different. And BPD contributes to those values. He believes that he is a victim in life and lives with a paranoia that nobody can be trusted. He is cynical, where I am optimistic, but critical. Generally speaking, it's not a good match.

The challenge for me is that the more withdrawn I become, the more attentive he is. Suddenly he's going grocery shopping for me, he's cleaning up the house, he's rubbing my back and my feet at night. It's this overcompensation, like, "Please, please, don't reject me. I can feel it and I'm scared, so I'll do these things so you'll like me again." But ultimately it just makes me more resentful. In one moment he calls me "garbage," and in the next moment he's mooning over me and saying, "I love you SOO much!" And he expects everything to return to normal, and gaslights me when I'm still upset.

I'm getting there. I think talking to a divorce lawyer will help me feel more confident, at least, in the best course of action for myself.

Wow, I_Am_the_Fire, thanks for sharing your story.  Lala, it is good to hear from you, your story was very much on my mind as I commented on this thread.

Witz_End_Wife, your most recent reply helped me to understand where you are and how you are feeling.  I can relate to where you are, and your hesitancy to bring in outsiders or get your husband in trouble.  My wife is the mother of my children, and we need to co-parent together no matter what, but I called the police on her for the first time last night.  We were in a public place that she had followed me to, and she wouldn't let me get into my car and drive to a hotel.  I knew that if I went home to get clothes she'd probably tackle me or block me on the way out, so I decided to go to the store and buy them.  But she intercepted me and I finally decided I needed help. 

I still feel a little unsettled about what happened but my wife took off as soon as she heard me callling the police and I realized what a strong consequence this is for her.  I decided that I will drive to the police station and make a report the next time she hits me, and this is a big step for me. 

Have you thought more about going to a local domestic violence support center to talk to someone face-to-face?  What boundaries do you think you might be able to set, and what consequences?

It feels like you are being too accommodating of his behaviors, and I totally get it, because that is my life, too...   Maybe we both can make some progress :)

I haven't thought about going to a local domestic violence center, but I suppose that is something I should consider. I know that others have warned me that this mental illness can be unpredictable and that I should certainly be prepared.

Regarding boundaries, I have told him that if he ever rages at me like that again, I'm done with the relationship. I have made that clear. I've never been that scared before in my life and I will never want to be in that position again.

I suppose that I could create other boundaries around name calling and other mean behavior -but what? Other than leaving, there's not much I can do.

My H won't block me from leaving, ever. He'll just threaten to kill himself. Is there something I can do there? Call the police and say my husband is threatening self harm and I need them to de-escalate the situation? Call his mom to get her to talk to him?

Speaking of his mom, she and I get along well, but he talks to her a lot about our relationship "problems." Of course, the conversations are always one-sided and she has no idea that he has chased me around the house, roaring at me. She has no idea that he has thrown and kicked my stuff around. She has no idea that he threw rotten banana on me. None of that. Is that something I should tell her, or should I even bother? If it all comes to a head, I think she should know the full story, lest she try to encourage him or pay for him to fight for his "share" of assets because I "heartlessly" threw him out.

Anyway, I'll at least try to figure out baby steps toward what to do next. I'm exhausted and heartbroken. All of this seems like a monumental effort.

Hi WitzEnd,

having gone through a very similar situation, i feel like dropping a note on this:


My exBPD's mom and me got along just great since the start. She even asked to look after my son (BPDx isn't his daddy) and took delight in doing a lot of nice "grandma" things with him. She and i talked and met quite regularly to discuss in private. Obviously aware that her son wasn't an easy match, she would inquire about how things were developing at home and furnishing useful, albeit shy, advise. My BPDx also talked with her about our relationship issues, including the hardship of being thrown into a step-dad-role out of the blue. She mostly managed to center him and he would come home calmer, settled and more tolerant. Once my ex started dysregulating heavily, his mom seemed to sustain me and inquired about my and my son's wellbeing more often. She even advised me to make him leave if he wasn't able to behave normally, and ensured me that i did not need to feel responsible for what he would do with himself afterwards. Once he uncovered the complicit bond between me and his mother, whom he had upheld as a saint until then, he got mad, went NC with her and perceived her as if she was a monster. By that time he was already out of home (not because i had followed his mother's advise but because i couldn't take him anymore). During the first phase, he still perceived me as being a positive person in his life (he needed me), while hating his mother and refusing to talk to her. It didn't last long. His downward spiral led him to inverse the roles and at a certain point, i became the monster and his mom was welcomed back into his life. In the heavy conflict that ensued (he bitterly attacked me, although not physically, leaving me scarred and scared for safety), his mom went NC with me.

They were all suddenly gone, him and his mother, plus his dad and stepdad. As if we didn't matter, as if our relationships were insignificant and vane. It was very hard to cope with this sudden, irrational abandonment by his family in a moment when i felt extremely vulnerable and afraid. I still did not understand what exactly has happened. He probably manipulated them into believing awful things about me, or scared them with threats if they would contact me again.

I tell you all this because, in my experience, situation that seem somewhat "established" can easily shift radically in a split second. You may rely on relationships or dynamics that could inverse themselves suddenly, without prior warning. I totally understand how you can possibly feel right now, the exhaustion and the fears, but i wish you the strength to rely on external, neutral persons who can advise and sustain you, whom you can trust to offer safety and well-meant support. Please think about referring to a DV center. You will not be obliged to do anything you don't wish by seeking their help. Just talking about your situation might already do wonders.

Right now I would suggest getting a good therapist to talk to about all of this. Having one helped me more than I can describe. It was one of my very first important baby steps. Hang it there. *hugs*

Are you truly willing to follow through on this?


Establishing other boundaries as you suggest certainly seems like a good idea.  At the moment, I am not feeling so confident in my boundary setting abilities, so will avoid dispensing advice.  If you want help with this, and if you have setbacks or successes, please keep posting; it will help many others.

 
Hey... .it's been a while since I've talked about "good, better, best"

I'm not saying it's "bad" to say "If you ever x again, I will y".  That is clear. 

However, many pwBPD will take that as a "line in the sand" or a "challenge".

Then... for no other reason than the emotions surrounding the challenge... .they will... challenge it.  Charge...

And... .if the history is that the threat never comes true... .or they have been able to "deflect" the consequence... well... .(in their mind)... .they think they can do it again.

And... .why shouldn't they.

This is why consistency of action is so... so important.

If the last 5 times he has raged... .you did (fill in the blank)... .he would expect you to do it again.

I would hope the fill in the blank is something healthy.  There are several options there... .

FF

My ex husband used the suicide threats to manipulate me. And some time after I left him, his new girlfriend told me that he was holding her "hostage" with suicide threats.

The last time he tried the suicide threat with me, I was several hundred miles away with my mother. My father had died of cancer the day before, hours after I visited him in the hospital. I had just come back to my childhood home with my mother, after making funeral arrangements earlier in the day and I got a phone call from my extremely agitated spouse who told me that if I didn't come home immediately, he was going to kill himself.

I did two things: 1. I called a suicide hotline asking for advice  2. I called one of his friends, told him about the threat and asked that he contact him.

The suicide hotline guy told me to ask him how he was planning on doing it and get him to talk in detail. Since I had just made funeral arrangements, I knew the questions that an undertaker needs to ask. So I asked him how he was planning on killing himself, if he wanted to be buried or cremated, if he wanted his sisters and his mother to view his body, and if so, then he would have to be embalmed, since they lived quite a distance away.

I felt oddly detached and he was totally shocked at me asking him these things in such a matter-of-fact way. He never again threatened to kill himself (to me, at least) and when I returned home, I made the gun we had disappear.

As I was divorcing him, my neighbor killed himself in his barn and sadly was discovered by his mother and five year old daughter. Some people actually complete the threat, and some never threaten and do it. So it's not something to take as an idle threat, as you well know, and that gives it power as a threat.

I had to acknowledge that it was possible that he would kill himself and get to the point where I could accept that. It wasn't my responsibility to prevent him from killing himself and I was not going to stay in the marriage for that reason.

He's still alive many years later, according to his nephew, who always liked me, and vice versa, and has kept in touch. The nephew has updated me on family history and it turns out that nearly every family member has ended up with some form of severe mental illness.

That's really powerful. And wise. It's important that we each come to our own decisions about our relationships. What is best for one may not be best for the other. Everyone is in their own place.

Sometimes leaving a violent scenario can make things worse. It may be better to make a plan. I don't recall who mentioned it early, but what about some practice runs? As they mentioned, put your keys somewhere safe. When I can tell my H has been building up for days, I will leave my purse and keys in the car in the event that I need to leave. Have a bag packed in the trunk of the car (mine is hidden in plain view. My H thinks it's just a bag that was left in the trunk and has never even touched it). Set back a little money, just in case. I also keep my run money in the little pocket on the back of my car seat. No one ever looks in there.

I also like the idea of letting him know that you will be back. It helps them to understand that the break is not permanent, but a time out.

My H has threatened me with suicide just a couple of times, and I tried really hard not to let that stop me from setting a boundary. My response was that it would be heartbreaking if he hurt himself and if he were to continue talking about it, then I would call an ambulance to get him to help. He didn't get the reaction from me he wanted so that threat went away.

More updates from me. We've been bickering at bedtime every night, which has kept me up 4-5 hours later than I normally would be. As I mentioned, he and I have differing political views, which has, over time, evolved into differing values overall. He has been extremely vitriolic online for the past year, but it has gotten worse over time. On top of that, he belongs to groups that ridicule people who share some of my values. It's just a general mean spiritedness that bothers me. Not only that, but he's spending his entire days reading what I call, "outrage porn" and commenting all over the internet about it. When I mention that the trolling and constant negativity bother me and make me feel uncomfortable, he rails at me for trying to "control his speech" on social media. Previously, he would acquiesce according to my feelings and he would tone things down for a while, but this time he made a promise to tone it down and, instead of actually doing that, he doubled down and trolled harder than ever.

Last night, we got into an argument after he tried to trick me into attending an event the next evening, hosted by a local political YouTube commentator. At first, he tried to tell me it was hosted by a friend of his, but, once I pressed, he tried to show me one of the guy's videos. I got upset, understandably. He said that "this is the way he was" and that I should just accept him, but the truth is that he changed midway through our relationship. I didn't sign up for this negativity and anger. I didn't sign up to be ridiculed behind my back 24/7. I didn't sign up for having a husband who spent all day long trolling and tweeting, instead of helping out around the home.

But of course, as it is with BPD, *I* get to be the bad guy. Lucky me! You see, according to him, *HE* does not have a problem with MY political beliefs, *I* have a problem with HIS! And so, if I want to divorce him, it's all on me. It's MY decision. He is just going to be his innocent little self and the big, bad, internet freedom-stealing harpy is going to cruelly toss him out on the street.

I can't handle this. I don't know what to do. He is leaving to visit his mother in Canada in a couple of weeks. He did mention the option of not returning back to the United States (of course, that's MY decision). I feel like that would be the best way to separate, and he'd already be with his mom, so he'd have support. It wouldn't be like me throwing him out. I'm scared, and sad, and distraught. I feel like I can't think straight, there's so much emotion happening here. This is one brutal mental illness. I wouldn't wish this kind of relationship on anyone.

Hello Witzendwife,


I wanted to let you know that I relate.
My ex was also visiting websites which propagate different opinions then mine the whole time, trying to trick me into fights over it, while in the end I was supposed to be the problem.
Your story sounds all too familiar to me. I know how frustrated and sad you feel.

As I said before, only you know what to do. But indeed your husband visiting his mum does sound like an opportunity for you to get some space, even if it's only temporary. This way you indeed would not have to ask him to go, which means a lot less drama. And you sound like somebody who's taking up on a lot of guilt, so you might feel better about it, too.

You are referring to BPD being a mental illness ; I'm afraid I don't agree on that one. I am convinced it's a character disturbance. It's installed in one's personality. I don't think your husband has BPD, I think he *is* BPD (until of course the moment when he'd decide to work on it).

Hang in there and please keep writing. If your post has reached it's limit in characters, please do not hesitate to open another thread. We will be there for you.

xxx

Hi WitzEndWife,

hold on, there's a bright light shining at the end of every tunnel! These lines made me remember how i felt when my relationship(s) started to be really intense:


I guess it is totally understandable to feel this way. Arguments, sleep deprivation, fear, FOG, gaslighting and constant emotional turmoil lead to a whole lot of confusion. In such situations, i always found it very helpful to have some time alone. By physically distancing from the chaos i discovered that i could reconnect to myself, be less distracted and see all things with more clarity. In this sense, him going to Canada could provide you with a much needed break and allow you to breathe again.

There might be further advantages to it: as i understood, this trip is his decision. Which does not make you responsible in any way for him leaving home. Plus, his mentioning that "he might not return" gives you some more playroom. One way to put it could be that you feel you are both suffering a great deal, or are under a great deal of pressure, and that staying apart for some time could be regenerative to both to figure out what each one of you really wants. To propose a break of sorts, by validating his own statements (eventually not coming back) and building upon them to buy yourself some time. If statements like these are not an option, it might be helpful to just go with his flow without being propositive, waiting for him to go away and see what you can do from there on.

I've had a situation with my ex husband (probable co-morbid PD's) who had become increasingly unstable. There was psychological, emotional and physical violence. Toward the end of our relationship i was just plain scared of him, confused, exhausted and isolated from friends and family. I found that fishing opportunities out of projects he put on the table - like leaving for a trip for instance - was a good way to diminish potential triggers, while letting him believe that he was still in control. I played passive, tried to stay low, avoided tensions and arguments as much as possible and basically went along with all his wishes. I supported his plans to travel with the kind and selfless attitude of a submissive wife (which i never was). This seemed to be very gratifying to him and he left thoughtlessly. Once he was away, i geared up. I seeked help, made safety plans, involved trusted friends for support and was able to organise my way out with a cold head and solid measures in place.

I'm not suggesting that "a way out" is what might benefit you, but i am positive that his leaving will provide you with some useful space to think through your options without being pressured, and figure out what you really need.

Besides that, knowing that he will be in a safe place with his mother may take away some weight off your heavy burden.

Did he mention how long he plans to stay away? Or did he leave it open?

I wish to tell you that it gets better WitzEndWife. Your exhaustion will be replaced by surges of energy and your despair will one day be overshadowed by gratitude and delight. Please do take care of yourself and do not lose hope, you can make it and we're here for you!

 

I would not engage on any suggestion from him that he stay or come back.  That is his choice.

I would consider what you want.  I would discuss with a divorce lawyer how you serve him when he is up there, so you know.

It would be a way to end it that would be "safer"... .remember the title of this thread.

It is up to you.

Perhaps you can serve him and send him a letter that you are open to discussing a future after therapy... AFTER... .

Leave it up to him... .

You have plenty of knowledge about what it looks likes to live with him without T.

Circling around to my first point again.  There is no reason for you to answer his suggestions about leaving or not coming back.

FF

I don't know if I'm ready to take the step of "serving" him, but I would like to suggest more time apart. He seems to be trying to get up and back as soon as he possibly can, and he has scheduled his whole trip around my business trip (I'll be gone for a week for a conference), so that "we're not away from each other for long." I'm going to try to suggest that he take more time to help his mother out (she needs it) before winter, and to give us a chance to take a breather from each other, due to all of the tension. Once I have a chance to see what life is really like without him, maybe I'll have more energy to make plans for leaving. I just feel the need to get away. I feel like I'm constantly being beaten down emotionally, and then blamed for my emotions.

And it's doubly hard because my family knows what's going on and they just want me to leave him, and they can't understand why I don't, even though he's horrible to all of them and has done his best to drive them away. They've tried and tried to welcome him into the family, but he insults them cruelly and ridicules them at every turn.

He's controlling. He's a bully. I thought I had the strength to combat this. I did last year. I was ready to toss him out. But now I feel crushed, like my spirit is gone. Maybe time away will bring it back?

Boy can I relate to the worry of physical abuse.

I'm not sure that we can ever really know if that line will be crossed. I think they like it that way. My BPDhubby has punched walls (many), doors (many) and anything near enough to connect with. I have a big dent in the side of my microwave. A dent I the top of my stainless steel island top. He left a dent in our van from punching it because he was mad at our (then) toddler. Destroyed a microwave cart with one swing. I was crying on the follow once in our kitchen sitting against our cabinets and he kicked a ball towards me hard enough to break the cabinets. Lots of rage driving... .LOTS. Yet through it all he has never doubled up his fist and punched me. This does not comfort me though and it shouldn't comfort you either. I am convinced that if he thought I was really leaving all bets would be off. I cannot say what he would - I'm not sure anyone can.
PLEASE BE CAREFUL. Carefully consider your exit plan as others have suggested.

Keeping up with the updates on here. He was supposed to leave for Canada yesterday, but has decided to wait a bit, since he claims he has other things he needs to take care of in the meantime.

Over the weekend, I found out that a close coworker of mine dropped dead of a heart attack, and our whole team is just reeling from that. Yesterday, I came home, after just having had a sad and somber meeting about the impact of his death on all of us, and H was in my face, kissing and smothering me, yammering on about some picture frames he purchased from Goodwill, and asking me what I wanted for dinner. I was non-committal on both, which irritated him, and he made some snotty retort about ignoring him. I snapped, "Well sorry, but maybe have some compassion for the fact that my coworker just died, and I just had a meeting about it before I came back home!" He snapped back about me being unpleasant. This all escalated into an all-out argument, all because I wasn't paying attention to him right when he wanted me to, and I quite frankly did not have the emotional energy or the patience to validate and then let him know that I needed some quiet time to myself.

I know that I'm not my best self with him. I'm turning into someone I don't like. I resent him. I resent that he sleeps half the day while I work. I resent that he spends my money on whatever he wants and doesn't contribute. I resent that he demands my attention all of the time and does not have any compassion for what I'm going through. I resent that he can say and do cruel things to me and then, five minutes later, pretend like everything's sunshine and roses. I resent that he revises our arguments and his statements after the fact to make it seem like he is innocent. I resent the fact that he thinks he's completely innocent, while I am the one "with the problem."

And yet, I can't pull the trigger. I can't make him go away. What is keeping me? Fear of being alone? I've been alone before. Fear of the pain of this? I guess so. Because I know it's not going to be an easy thing. At least not when it's peaceful. I'll be the mean, bad one in the revised story. The wicked witch. Sigh. This is hard.

 
   

Hard stuff... the coworker and the marriage.  It's ok to say it's too much. 

You asked some questions/presented some issues... .so I'm going to put something out there and trust you can leave it aside until you feel ready to deal with it.

I'm guessing the same reason you let him spend your money... .is the same reason you are still in the marriage.

As I read your list... .the money thing is the clearest one that is "boundariable" (new FF word).  In other words it is technically incredibly easy for you to do.  My understanding is multiple agreements have come and gone... .and you still fund him.

So... .why would he change?  He doesn't "need" the money.  He has yours.

I also realize, from personal experience, this is a hard emotional thing to do.  I was first advised by a family therapist to put my wife on an allowance a couple of years ago.  It was 3-4 months ago that I finally "cut her off" from all of my money.

She now has her own full time job.  I have no idea how she spends her money... .Nor does she know how I spend mine.

I "wish" I had done this earlier, but I do have memories of the internal struggle I had.  I kept hoping that one more conversation... .one more spreadsheet... one more xyz would help her "see".

At some point you will "accept" the way your hubby is and act on that... .right now I'm guessing you are still trying to "find the magic button" to make the crazy go away.

Last:  Is it time to be honest with your hubby.  "I was looking forward to "me time" while you visited your Mom.  It would mean a lot to me if you took your trip as planned."

Don't argue... .he may or may not go... .I wouldn't repeat it... .

Somehow we need to get you some relief... .so you can think

FF

Regarding the money thing, I have started to set boundaries with him. I told him that I would no longer pay for his credit card, that he needed to be responsible for paying that himself, and that I'd no longer pay for repairs on his car. For the most part, I've stuck to it. The exception being that I've paid him back for running errands for me, such as buying dog food or dinner. I'm still paying for everything for the both of us.

I did set a budget yesterday, and I said that we needed to stick to it. I know that's easier said than done, overall. And I'm not great with money myself, although I usually have had less of a problem living within my means when it's been just me.

When he's back from Canada, he says he will "jump into" working full time. He finally found a real estate agency he wants to work with and will start getting training from them. He also says he will drive Uber in the evenings (although he always says that and it might happen once every month or so, so I'm not holding my breath). Once he's working full time, I'll hand over more financial responsibility on his plate. But that's IF we stay together, of course.

 
It looks like you are on the path.

However... .why pay for anything?

Again... the big picture is... .he is unlikely to do it until he has to.

Much better to cut him off completely.

Then let him know that you are there to support an encourage his efforts... .so... .you are setting aside the money you used to give him for all this stuff.  From that money you will give him a dollar for every 4 that he makes.  Or every 3... .or 2. 

The key is you are being friendly... .you are being supportive and HE IS GOING FIRST. 

Your hands are "tied" until he goes first... .and you'll respect his choice.

FF

WEW, how's it going? Has he left for Canada yet? How are you feeling?   

I've been at a conference all this week. He left for Canada right after I left for my conference. Of course, he still managed to accuse me of "not caring" because I didn't ask him where he was last night (he had been posting his journey on Facebook, so I knew where he was). He was all depressed because his mother's house was not as he'd left it, that she'd fallen back into her less than organized routine, and he criticized her eating habits. I asked him what he wanted to do about that, and he had no answer. He only wanted to complain about it and be sad and clingy.

The biggest problem I have with him whenever we're apart is that he misses me "SO" much, and doesn't give me any chance for relief, because I still have to deal with his emotional issues. I would not care if he spent a couple of days hanging out with his mom and ignoring me, but that has yet to happen. Sigh.

My wife left the state after a fight. She was gone for a week. I used that opportunity to start divorce arrangements, so she would not be living with me again.

Just sayin' ... .if that's what you want, the timing will never be better.

Two things.


1.  Don't count on "him" to leave you alone.  Count on yourself to "make" some space.  If you need a break... take one.  Let him manage himself.

2.  Now is a time for deliberate thought on your part.  This is not a time for momentum.

Look at title of this thread.  No judgment if you stay... or go. 

What I am pushing you to do is sit for a bit... .really think.  Do I want him back in this house again? 

Do I want a break for a few months?  Year? 

FF

I am using this time to think. I am thinking about how life would be without him around, the pros and the cons. I'm carefully weighing everything. It takes time to wind down. I could not think about this during the conference, obviously, because I was running around, working, and networking with my team. I have only had two days to think and wind down so far. What I have concluded is that I am definitely unhappy right now. Whether or not that can be fixed within the relationship is the key question I have to unravel.

At least I know WHAT is making me unhappy. I was thinking that through yesterday:

1) That I am more of a mom than I am a wife, and I long for a partner whom I can count on and trust, instead of always having to be the counted on one. I need him to go from being 14 years old to 40, at least some of the time, and I know that's a huge leap.

2) That our political differences have revealed some fundamental values differences, and that I don't know if things will change if #1 changes.

3) That he is rude, abusive, and disrespectful, and sometimes rage-filled at others who mean something to me. He won't avoid taking cruel digs at my parents, no matter what they say or do, no matter how kind they are to him. That is something I cannot continue to live with.

4) That he cannot control his anger sometimes. Not only does he scare me, but he scares my dog and damages property. I don't want to live in fear of a blow-up.

These are things that I probably should write to him in a letter, once I've thought it through some more. I think it would make me feel better to get those out, at least, even if it does nothing.

By all means, write a letter. That can help you with your process.

Do not send him this letter. It will not change things for the better. If you do send him a letter, it should only be after you have made arrangements for what is going to happen next, which will most likely be some kind of big change in your living circumstances and relationship.

I agree with flourdust. Definitely do not send him this letter unless your relationship is over and done and you're in a safe, secure, fortified location.

These truths which are so helpful for us to read, write and embrace are quite different for people with personality disorders. Reading a letter like that could trigger a rage response and if not that, at best will be perceived as blaming and shaming.

Is there a trusted friend you could share that letter with? I wrote long, complex letters like that when I was examining my relationship with my ex, who was physically and verbally abusive to me. After sharing these letters with a trusted friend, I could no longer sweep these behaviors under a rug and just go on as before. I had a witness to the abuse. I could no longer pretend that it would be better... .someday... .

Is there a middle ground here?

Is there a pragmatic solution to "create space" where you ask him to delay return.

I would suggest being honest.

"I need time to reflect on where I see our relationship.  It would mean a lot to me for you to remain there for 2 weeks.  Let's plan to talk on (insert date).  Please respect my need for space to sort out my feelings."

Here is the thing.  If he respects this request... .that would push my opinion one way... .if he doesn't respect it, i would lean another way.

Thoughts?

Reasons:  You are thinking big important things.  Not the kind of things you can process easily with him around.

FF

Just a thought on FF's post: i would be careful with that interpretation... .a pwBPD sensing that his SO is drifting away might well play nice for a week or two out of fear of abandonment. In my experience that is precisely what happened. My ex mustered a deep respect for boundaries, increased empathy (though shallow in hindsight) and acceptance when he felt that i was giving the r/s some serious thought. He went as far as openly stating that he would do anything i wanted as long as we stayed together. I believe that positions and intentions should be assessed over a lengthier time than a couple of weeks to make sure they're real.

Writing a letter without sending it to him sounds like a great idea. Maybe you could write a letter to yourself
WitzEndWife. Reading it to a trusted friend also sounds great, it could give you some objective distance and feed back. Or, you can always post it here!

In any case, i hope you'll manage to buy some more time for yourself to think, process and reach clarity 

I think the reason I wouldn't ask for more time is that I don't really think it would do anything for me, other than solidify what I already know. He says that, when he gets back, he will be "digging into" working and building a career for himself. I guess part of me hopes that him doing so will make me feel like less of a mom, and it will also alleviate this whole self esteem issue, where he lashes out at me and others because he feels like a jobless loser. My gut says to let him do that, and if he does not follow through, I can decide to end things. Or if he rages again, of course, I can decide to end things.

Is this taking the "easy" way out? This feels like what I want to do, but am I just prolonging the inevitable?

I wonder if part of your decision is based upon wanting him to be self-supporting?

WitzEndWife - I've been following your thread and appreciate all the comments others have left and you sharing your story. I too fully support my husband and one of my fears in leaving is that he will take me to court in the divorce and I will end up paying him child support and/or alimony. He has access to all of my credit cards and bank account and I need to cut him off. Just last night he was talking about what a "loser" he is and why can't he do better at work/home/his health. He also lectured his son (my step-son) for about an hour about not ending up living on someone's couch because he can't take care of himself, sounds like projection! I will take the advice he gave our son and use it on him, make him more "responsible" for himself. Since it was his idea. When they give us those carrots, we need to grab them!

Good luck with your decision and with finding peace and happiness. Reading this thread today gave me some action items and that gets me one step closer to being out, because I've already made up my mind that's what I want to do. I know he senses it and is trying to do things to butter me up (as if finally making dinner one time is going to change my mind!) It is extremely helpful to read these posts when I feel myself slipping back into complacency. We're not alone and we deserve better.

The parts I bolded above could have been copied from many other messages you wrote over the last several months. What are you going to do that's new?

I had the same reaction as flourdust.

How many times has he made the same declarations/promises?

How many times has he followed through on those promises?

What does your gut tell you is the likelihood of his fulfilling those promises this time?

*mod*

This topic has been locked due to length. You can find the continuation at the link below:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=314878.0