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People justify, argue, defend, and explain their BPDs behaviors because they can't face the fact that the BPD disordered person NEVER loved them. JADE keeps you in a protective bubble of denial to run away from the fact that your pwBPD is an abuser and sees you as prey. JADE keeps people from accepting the fact that the pwBPD doesn't care at all if you are crying or hurt.

When I first landed on these boards, UKharry, I thought a lot like you. Over time, I have learned that BPD is a spectrum disorder and each person who suffers from is has unique traits and feelings just like every other person. We have to be very careful with over-generalization and conclusive terms such as never and assumptions that each person with BPD traits acts the same way. They don't.

Yes, there are some commonalities and parallels between all of our stories, but those stories are all very unique. My dBPDexw loved me, and still does to some extent even a decade after our divorce. Her abuse was her maladaptive coping skill - her struggle to save our marriage in the only way that she knew how.

When I would JADE with her it was not because I was in denial of her lack of feelings feelings for me. To the contrary, it was because of her feelings for me. As I said in the OP, it was in hope of her understanding my side of things so as to salvage the relationship before it was completely doomed.

Now, that was my situation. All of our stories are unique. What is true for me is not necessarily true for you. This is why we must be careful of painting all pwBPD and our relationships with the same, broad stroke.

Ive been with a few BPD's over the years unfortunately. From my understanding a pwBPD is emotionally stunted at around 3 years old. When I say they will never love you,I don't mean that they don't love you in their own BPD way. I mean that a pwBPD by definition is incapable of giving/accepting an adult love. I don't consider BPD love as true love because true love is about respect,compassion,integrity,patience,and understanding. True love means you can be emotionally naked in front of your partner and completely vulnerable. I am not sure that any pwBPD is capable of this,and if they are they are most likely misdiagnosed as a true pwBPD isn't really capable of adult feelings of love per definition of the disorder.

I JADE because we want someone to... .
understand me.
hear my perspective
Maybe share my perspective
Maybe share my reality

To RA, imo, seems the opposite... .
To allow someone their way of thinking without attempting to alter it, move it, etc

If talking with a more logical minded person, JADE, CAN in fact bring people together in greater awareness and understanding.

Imo, the issue is when I am talking with a person with no glimpse of a "wisemind" and stuck in an emotional mind... .logic is simply often ineffective.  

When nothing else but their own emotions is "permitted" to exist in their experience experience... . then JADE is simply useless.

To continue to JADE under that circumstance... .is like trying to force another reality on them.  It is control.  Even if I say I want to be understood... .or i think they may see things differently, "if only"... .that actually is still a control issue we are having.  The opposite would be "letting go" of being right, letting go of being understood, letting go of being clear, etc.  

Not sure if that clarifies my thoughts... .
Seems a bit... .messy explanation, sorry.

Actually, Sunfl0wer, that makes perfect sense to me. I've never looked it as strictly a form of control.

But, that begs the question of why there is a need to feel in control?

Ex's of people with BPD want control because in a sense it was taken from them during the whole time they were in the relationship. BPD's need full control in order to feel safe.

*)
There is no need.
Our perception of this "need" is an illusion.
A distraction in looking to get an inner need met externally.

Same reason I was drawn to my ex to begin with.
Thought I could help him, (and he me) Actually thought the situation would be mutually satisfying and beneficial.

Oops... .
Tangential some... .

So imagining a world where I never "need" to have a shared experience with another... . where our definitions of reality in that moment intersect, meaning the same thing... .

Feels utterly lonely!

Is that meaning I could love myself better?
Or is that simply human nature? To simply want shared realities as a way to connect, to feel alive?
If so, could explain the nature of pwBPD to be so darn driven to have their reality Trump everyone else's.

Maybe in time I can achieve not feeling lonely if no one in the world shared my reality ever?

I do not know.  I cannot imagine so.

For me, atm... .
To understand another
get understood
Share similar perceptions of reality
Feels like connecting
Feels like it makes me alive in some way

So idk if it is "needed," could be a natural primal desire, idk tho really.

But I do find such musings interesting.
And am grateful Meili that you have posed it/shared it! Lol!   :)

That's right, a pwBPD will try to over control the enviroment because they're feeling out of control


We don't need to put a label on love  :) I don't think that there is one true definition of love, what loves means to me may mean something different to someone else, it doesn't mean that my view is necessarily shared by others, but if that's how you feel about love you certainly have the right to feel the way that you do.

This is an interesting twist on the idea of JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain). Usually I think of this in terms of one partner justifying, arguing, defending, and explaining there own behavior to someone who criticizes them. It's a term from the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book and Twelve Steps, I believe.

"We justify BPD behaviors because we can't face that they never loved us ~ UKharry "

I assume you mean that some of us justify BPD behaviors to others because we are driven by the need to believed we were really loved, when in fact pwBPD are incapable of love... .

Crises Board I'm not sure I see this on the Crises Board, at all. There is bias toward painting people with BPD traits black. If anything, the most common statement is "they never loved me" and even that they lack basic human characteristics/feelings. I think you refereed to them a 3 year olds in another thread.

I guess the question I'd ask, were we all that gullible? Or is this just some of us cope with loss?

A number of psychologists map the process of falling in love to look like:

• Stage 1: Falling In Love
• Stage 2: Becoming a Couple
• Stage 3: Disillusionment
• Stage 4: Creating Real, Lasting Love

I've felt that the Stage 3 is the killer in most of these relationships. It's a killer for relationships in general, but I think more so in a highly idealized fantasy relationship.

I have some 3 year olds in my life. I think that analogy is not a good one.