BPDFamily.com

I woke this morning to an idea I had for myself.  I have gone through a real grinder over the last two years, as I pulled myself up out of crazy inside a now 20 year marriage to a likely waif / hermit uBPDw.  I struggled to save myself - mentally and emotionally - and learned a lot about personality, families, and most of all about BPD.  It's required a lot of growth on my part, and I have made life around me better. 

But, I asked myself if it was better to know how bad my marriage was, or not know how bad it was.  Likewise, is it better to know about BPD or not.  I think it's certainly good to know about BPD.  When I heard about BPD, and started studying it, huge pieces of my nonsense world started to fit into place.  I now had the rules, reasons, causes - and solutions to make things better.  The problem was, as those huge chunks of truth settled in, I then saw the landscape of my life in reality.  I see my future as nearly hopeless, loveless, and forever affected by something I got into without knowing. 

Rhetorically, I guess it's better to know.  At least most of the time that keeps me grounded. 
Has anyone else pondered this?

I personally feel better knowing. It helps me take better care of me. No more fear or worry that I'm just not a good enough wife.

Yes it is leading to some hard decisions about the future and the reality of what that future could be. Knowledge is power. I would rather make an informed decision.

Even if the decision is to stay and I know I will have to deal with this the rest of my life - it will be an informed decision - not one based on false expectations.

It sounds like you already know that though

It is always better to know and to known as much as you can, including the truth about ourselves, so we can better solve our problems based on facts, reality and rational thought and action.  What is the alternative?  Ignorance (falseness) is bliss.  Isn't that what gets people into and stuck in most of their problems.

I am glad I know about BPD. Life was unbearable before, much more confusing, now it is manageable. It gives me hope to know. Keep in mind all relationships can be horrible, even without folks with BPD. There are lots of flavors to unhappiness and dysfunction and disappointment. You knew it was bad, now you know more about why. That is a good thing. :) Find your role and own your part in it.

If I may, I would suggest you really take a step back and focus on what about your life does make you happy. You wrote, "It's required a lot of growth on my part, and I have made life around me better." This sounds great!

Lastly, my grandma is in her 90s. She grew up in poverty. Had six kids after the first three did not survive. She has only a little education and experienced a lot of racism/discrimination. Her husband cheated on her and had serious alcohol and gambling issues. She has been living apart from him for the last nearly thirty-some years. They are still pretty friendly with each other. He was her only love. Ever. She is one of the happiest people I know and is holding on for every last minute of life. My great grandma was widowed very young with 11 kids and was an absolute light in this world. Lots of people have bad marriages or lose partners. Don't let life defeat you. Make the most of the time you have in this world. You want to be happy? Happiness is an attitude and a choice that defies circumstances.  What are you waiting for? :)  

I hate the unknown... so knowing is better for me.

I have to remind myself to "not get too precise" as this is a "spectrum thing"

I used to try to "predict exactly" what my wife would do. 

Now I'm aware that certain areas are "problematic" (polite... huh?... :)) and I try to be kind and direct. 

If it goes well... wonderful.  If it blows all to pieces, it was no shock and I kinda do a "that again" sort of thing... .

Many times I decide to not pick up the pieces... .just leave them.


FF

I agree with all the above.  Knowing is better.  I remember the amazing light that came into my life when I figured out what BPD was.  All of the sudden, I had books that explained what I was going through.  The why, how, and what was explained.  I felt like I suddenly learned a new language and found the rule book by which my wife plays - unwittingly or not. 

However, a down-side of that knowledge is the awareness of the dark and terminal nature of core personality defects.  On that idea, I'd rather die unexpectedly and / or quickly.  Knowing how long I have to suffer (forever) is not so good.

And for FF; I too like knowing.  When a case is "solved" we have enough of the facts and draw our conclusions from that.  I have been making a list that I will turn into a chart.  I'm starting to list "what is" and "what I know."  I'm also starting a list of what is most likely to happen / be true / result in the immediately predictable future.  Later, I'll stretch it out to father ahead.  At the moment, my list is small, but, it has hugely satisfying to create a metric. 

Funny, because I firmly tell my kids to make a decision based on "what is" as much as possible, not what you want, feel, think, expect.  I need to use my own medicine.  I know we never will know it all, but, it helps me to see some solid ground - what IS. 

I am thinking of just blowing the whole thing up (moving decisively towards divorce) and seeing what lands, and where.  Advice that came from another of my threads.

I like "metrics" and knowing "where I am" in a plan.

Knowing where I am in relation to something is a big deal for me.

Helps me figure out if I'm "winning or loosing".

then... .that gets balanced "with my heart" when it comes time to make decisions or "change paths"

I'm sorta there right now... .given that my wife and I have no more joint accounts... .what's next?

Session with P later today... .I'm sure we will talk... .

FF

Understanding the issue in my FOO and how they related to the kinds of relationships I chose as an adult was like a light bulb in a very dark space. But just understanding BPD wasn't enough. I had to relate it to me, my part in it. So long as my focus was on BPD and the person with it, I would not look at my own contribution to dysfunction.

Just as important ( and even more so- because we are responsible for our part in relationships ) was understanding co-dependency and enabling. BPD was most useful when I used that information to look in the mirror. How did having a mother with BPD and a co-dependent father shape my sense of normal and behaviors growing up. That was not my fault, but as an adult- I was responsible for perpetuating them through the relationships I chose and the relationship skills I brought to them.

No two people are the same. A label of BPD doesn't imply that. However, it can set us in a direction to learn about what to do about it, but this can also involve accepting a definition for our own behaviors as well.

Pearslw- I love your grandma's attitude! Yes, we are responsible for our own happiness. I also think it is only in recent times that we expect marriages to be more fulfilling. I think in prior times, marriage was a social framework and if it was romantic or fulfilling - well that was great too, but at the basic level, it set a framework for the benefit of children and family as a whole. The father provided financially and the mother provided domestically. The women's movement and sexual revolution caused us to re-examine these ideas, but in part, I think the basic structure of marriage remains similar to older times. A good marriage in your grandmas time was food on the table, clothes on everyone, the basics.

I'm sure back then there was BPD, alcoholism, abuse, and all the other issues that marriages face today, but there were less choices for men and women.

I think we can look at marriage through the different levels. Even with issues, the basics might be met- a roof over their heads, food, clothing. For some people, that may be enough to be happy. They say "who is rich?" He who is satisfied with his lot. I say your grandma is blessed.

I was thinking about this too, knowing what BPD is helpful it can help make the chaos less chaotic, it can give you tools that can improve the situation but it is only addressing one half of the relationship.  I'm on these boards because of my SO's uBPDxw so not in a romantic relationship but I still had to address my part of the relationship I had with her and for me that was anger.  Once I was able to let the anger go and embrace "radical acceptance" I was in a much better place.

I was also in a co-dependent marriage to an alcoholic so from the co-dependent spouse perspective, I think we need to think about what are we getting out of the relationship.  It is clearly dysfunctional but yet we stay... .sure we have "reasons", the kids, financial, it's too difficult no one will help us/support us... .etc.  But we are getting something from staying in a co-dependent relationship what is that?  

For me it was a self-esteem boost.  I had it together, I did everything, I was the good parent, I took care of the house, I had the "good" job that made more than my husband etc... .What did I get out of it I could feel good about myself in comparison to my husband.  I needed to feel that because in reality I felt none of those things, I wasn't good enough or worthy enough or lovable enough.

My SO got to feel smart and in charge in his marriage to his uBPDxw.  She would create a mess and it was his job to fix it, to sort it out, to problem solve and he liked to win arguments with her too... .he enjoyed the mental challenge.  So he got to feel intellectually superior.

So look at yourself too what are you getting by staying, why do you need whatever that is, how get you get whatever it is in a more healthy constructive way and is whatever your reason is a healthy reason to stay.

Panda39

Agree, Panda39.  We Nons are usually are getting something out of staying in a BPD r/s.  Sure, it's a self-esteem boost to feel like a White Knight who can handle or fix or clean up the effects of dysfunction, because on some level we Nons often have low self-esteem or lack self-love.  Down deep, I suspect that I thought I deserved to be treated poorly by my BPDxW, because it matched my feelings of low self-worth.  No more; I deserve better and no longer tolerate abuse.

LuckyJim

I express this in a different way... .the result is different.

There was a while where I tried to convince my wife that she shouldn't abuse me.

Then I convinced myself that I wouldn't tolerate abuse... .and my wife can do as she pleases...

I've always had a pretty decent opinion of myself, but was raised to "put others first"... .especially your wife.  Also a Christian principle.

I really had to get it straight in my head and heart that self care and "protecting your heart" is the "first thing" you should do and then you find time to serve others.

I kinda had it backwards

FF

Nicely said, FF.  Right, I had it backwards, too.  I thought it was noble (and normal) to suffer abuse from my W.  Took me a long time to come around to the view that self-care comes first.  The Bible doesn't expressly say "Love thyself," yet I think that is the "first thing," as you suggest.

LJ

I learned to love myself and realized the only reason I was still in my marriage was because I chose to stay in it. 

Then I chose to leave, it was that simple and that complicated. 

Panda39

Ditto for me!

I'm working really hard on what loving myself and taking care of my heart are for me. Its so strange to consider my needs after so long. To consider that I have choices and that I can manage my life - not just let life happen to me.

"Knowing" has helped bring me here. Has helped me look at my roll and my needs.

LED

@SamwizeGamgee,

What a great post !

Me, .it's absolutely worse not to know, although "undiagnosed"... .my BPD/W fits the bill completely.

All those years of wondering why, .why do I get up each day, and try to do my best, only to get hit by the same bus, over and over, .seemingly with no warning, .

Yes, better to know why, now I think I can understand a little better, and like many have said here on the post, .the future is now set before you... .reverse engineering is taking place, although there is little that one can do to "fix" anything, at least we know the voltages, and currents values now (why)... .no more secrets, it is what it is... .

Learning about BPD was a key that opened an entire trunk full of insightful knowledge, .like having the very blueprints to the destruction of the marriage, or relationship.

Scary stuff, .yes it is... .now that you know, what do you do, .like having a ticket on the Titanic so to speak, .there is a chance you may make it to a lifeboat, and everything will be ok?

Or else you stay, and "put up with it"... .into your old age, .even if you are strong, you know you will most likely be eternally miserable... .and one think I have always wondered, what if I get sick first, .become bed ridden, of physically disabled, will my u/BPDW take care of me?... .that is something to think about !

Yes, I am glad I know, .great postings here,

Samwize, thank you for starting this amazing thread. What a wonderful opening statement! And so many beautifully honest followup posts!

For me, knowing is bittersweet. It took a long time for me to finally detach from the dream of the perfect relationship that I thought I had during the beginning years. But it was a dream, ephemeral and flimsy and likely to turn into a nightmare with the wrong word.

Now I feel "meta"--observing the relationship, but not fully and freely participating in it, as I do when I don't have to be hypervigilant with friends. I no longer have any hope that it will return to that blissful time as it was at the beginning. Yet now I can keep it from going off the rails as it once did, so inexplicably.

I married for love--I think I was more in love with him than I'd ever been with anyone. But now I look at the marriage as a cost/benefit analysis. When we first got together, my net worth was about 10 times his. Since then, he's inherited a significant amount of money and now his net worth is 10 times mine. This is the first time in my life I've truly felt financially secure and that is a very powerful reason to stay.

Also, now that I can keep things peaceful, life is pretty good. When he's moody and cranky, he's definitely unpleasant to be around. However he does have times when he's a lot of fun.

For now, the cost/benefit analysis shows that staying is my best option. At some point in the future, that might change. But for now, knowing the tools and learning to be more self aware and have boundaries has definitely helped me create a more pleasant relationship.

Knowing has profoundly changed me in a variety of ways. I'm more mindful and far less reactive to unkind verbal taunts. I see his pain in that he frequently feels self-critical and uncomfortable. In the past, I thought someday I would figure out a way to communicate how unnecessary his self-flagellation is. Now I know that my words would merely be seen as yet more judgment.

I feel sad that he is unable to really see my complexity and that if I'm not happy in a given moment, he feels that I'm criticizing/shaming/blaming him. At times I feel like I'm a 3D screen that he can project his discomfort upon, telling me that I'm angry or that I wish he would just go away. Oftentimes he accuses me of these things at moments where I'm lost in reflection, such as contemplating how I'm going to change the watering schedule for the garden and horse pasture, now that I've planted new grass seed. Then I'm completely befuddled, "What? Huh? No, I'm not angry at you." Then he's likely not to believe me and then I do get irritated.

Sometimes I acknowledge that I find his behavior very frustrating, but that I love him. I don't know if he understands how I can separate behavior from caring about him as a person, and it astonishes me because it seems like a very simple concept that all parents would understand. (He's not a parent.)

He's quite a mystery to me because he's one of the most intelligent people I've ever met, yet his emotional intelligence level seems to be that of an adolescent. It's ironic because he's so proud of his knowledge of Buddhism and has (no exaggeration) thousands of books on the topic, yet it seems to be more of an intellectual pursuit than knowledge he's digested.

So, given that I plan to stay with him, I realize that now I'm able to not make things worse, I feel a profound sadness that this fantasy of a relationship has evolved to being so limited. I really don't feel like he understands me, nor is interested in finding out what he doesn't know. My psychologist, who was our couples counselor years ago, thinks he not only has a personality disorder, but that he's also Aspergers and that's why he misses certain social cues and gets so obsessed about things: Buddhism, cameras, watches, stereo systems, bicycles--the hobby changes regularly.

So, yes, I'm glad I know, but sometimes I wonder if I'm limiting the relationship. Lowering my expectations to account for the reality I now understand better may be setting me up for a self-fulfilling prophesy. 

I wonder about that too Cat. Am I limiting the relationship or just accepting that some aspects of it are limited? I don't know the answer. What I do know is that I am happier and more peaceful with the acceptance. The other way, I felt I was pushing for something more and it felt like I was pushing a brick wall. I wanted more closeness and the more I pushed, the more it seemed he resisted.

Ironically, he says he misses the attention - I think he enjoyed me trying so hard. But I didn't. Eventually, I felt the best solution since our marriage is good in many ways is acceptance.

Perhaps it is FOO issues that we fit our most intimate relationships into. There are times I think he sees me in the position of his critical father. There are times I respond to him as if he was my mother. The truth is that we are not like those people in real life, but at the intimate emotional level, the vulnerability and fear from our childhood may be a factor.

Whatever it is, we are who we are. I think we can respond with either too weak boundaries or too strong ones when it comes to relationships. I brought a poor sense of boundaries into my relationships. I think my H brought in strong ones. His comfort space is distance- a distance that limits intimacy. I also questioned my own idea of intimacy- was it too much? I don't know. . It didn't seem to help to keep pushing for more closeness. We all have boundaries and part of a relationship is mutual boundary respect.

I'm having waves of thought right now wondering if I am still married _because_ I learned about BPD.  That's an uncomfortable thought since it looks and feels like a toxic relationship, and I'm not enriched or better off, nor does it meet my needs and wants.  

Without knowing of BPD, I think I would have crashed and burned, and ended this years ago according to my previous trajectory.  Instead, learning about BPD has set me on a course of wellness, awareness, mindfulness, and ironically based on Cat's comments, Buddhist thought.  I found coping skills, better behavior, and made life happy.  So, I stay.

So, I'm contemplating the consequences of enlightenment.  It puts a new spin on my question if it's better to know or not.  

To me the question then becomes yes I can accept what is... .yes I can stay, but should I?
Am I settling?  Do I want more? What are the trade offs?  If you've made a happy life why think about leaving?

Panda39

@ Cat Familiar;
This rung out to me, “He's quite a mystery to me because he's one of the most intelligent people I've ever met, yet his emotional intelligence level seems to be that of an adolescent.”
My u/BPD wife regularly displays “adolescent” type behaviors when she is in the bottom of a cycle, when things get bad, when she is coming after me, I have read about the supposed causes of BPD behaviors being linked to mental / physical trauma (neglect or otherwise) during childhood, so as much as she has told me of her childhood, and as well seeing her (observing)... her around surviving siblings and her FOO mother; this does make sense to me, as in, when she dysregulates, and starts to spiral, the “inner child” comes out fighting, I once read a post on another site/thread where the writer actually describes his wife’s behaviors as a forty something almost instantly (seconds) coming across as a belligerent teenager…
@ Notwendy;
What you posted; I feel it happening in my r/s; “Perhaps it is FOO issues that we fit our most intimate relationships into. There are times I think he sees me in the position of his critical father. There are times I respond to him as if he was my mother. The truth is that we are not like those people in real life, but at the intimate emotional level, the vulnerability and fear from our childhood may be a factor.”
Yes, I sometimes can actually feel her… as if she is not even arguing to me, but at me (generally), as if I was someone else… this used to perplex me, but now that I think I understand that this is just another type of exhibited BPD behavior, now I can pull back, and disengage, and even go “gray rock”… As I try to tell myself that “it’s not me”… she really does not even know I am here right now (!/?) she is in the presence of someone else in her mind… and yes, I too had poor boundaries, and I am still working on that, and as well trying to keep coping skills current and operational, this is pretty hard sometimes to keep forefront when I am being targeted,
@SamwizeGamgee;
You wrote; “Without knowing of BPD, I think I would have crashed and burned, and ended this years ago according to my previous trajectory.”
I can concur, I remember quite vividly, being on my last nerve, completely stripped of any motivation, drive to carry on any further, and I began to try and research more, as I thought about why my first marriage was so troubled and had ended, so I began to look (internet reading)… I remember “googling”… signs you are married to a @$&#%… and what is the cause, causes of this behavior being meted out to you on such a constant basis… I made lists of reasons, and lists of her actual behaviors towards me, and this was one of the hard parts, to actual "see"... .in my own writings... .to make an itemized list of everything I felt she had done, was doing to me… (sobering); and then one day I came across “behavior disorders", and it was like a light came on, .barely visible in the distance, .but I saw it out there (!), .and so I dove in, .& I chased it… And began to learn all I could… and now it makes sense, “enlightenment” as you say, its still quite a struggle, but now it’s not so personal to me when I get a full ration of it now, 
@Panda39;
Strong medicine !… Staying or leaving, that’s a tough one, and this decision can change over time, many facets to consider, this is extremely exhausting at times, and you have to stay “centered”, grounded, and have a strong sense of self, or otherwise one can get lost in all this very quickly, and this is not good… knowledge is “power” so to speak, “strong medicine”, If I had not made my own diagnoses of my wife, through gained knowledge, and “study”… then I would be lost in all this now, or else have ended this r/s already…

@ Red5:  Right, it is exhausting and requires a lot of effort to stay centered in a BPD r/s.  By comparison, I have been seeing my SO for almost two years and it's not tiring at all.  I don't have to work to stay centered, because I already am centered when I'm with her, if that makes sense.  I can be myself and I let her be herself within the context of our r/s, which works out well for both of us.

Of course, I went through the BPD crucible in order to get to this point, so I'm not minimizing what others are enduring.  I lost myself in my marriage to a pwBPD, which was not fun.  I hit bottom and crash landed, which I don't recommend!

LuckyJim

"Right, it is exhausting and requires a lot of effort to stay centered in a BPD r/s.  By comparison, I have been seeing my SO for almost two years and it's not tiring at all.  I don't have to work to stay centered, because I already am centered when I'm with her, if that makes sense.  I can be myself and I let her be herself within the context of our r/s, which works out well for both of us."


Lucky Jim,
I'm so glad you've found a nice companion after all you went through in your marriage. It truly is possible, though I cannot say I've had any experience of this, unless I count one relationship in college. I guess that's why you're LUCKY! Jim.


After leaving a nightmare of a marriage to an abusive BPDh, I had no expectations of ever finding myself in a marriage again. I dated a very nice man who had PTSD from military service off and on for several years, but I never wanted to get closer, though he did. He had a very crazy young daughter living with him part of the time, and mostly with her mother who lived in another state. I tried to alert him to some major red flags that I saw arising in the future, but he misinterpreted my concern and Karpman Triangled me into a position where he thought I was criticizing her. I didn't want to be seen as "the wicked stepmother" so I backed away slowly. And also the PTSD.

Years later I ran into him in a coffee shop and he told me how everything I had predicted had come to pass and that he wished he would have listened to me at the time. (His 5' tall daughter had ballooned to 300 pounds by age 15 and she was not permitted to be around some other relatives' children due to sexual acting out issues.)

I guess I dodged that bullet.

Around that time, I reconnected with the man who became my current husband, who I had known for many years through a circle of friends in a city I had previously lived in. We had been friends for years, but time and distance and having been married to other people, kept us from knowing too much about each other. We had both left regrettable marriages and he found a job in my area. It seemed idyllic and perfect for many years until more and more of his BPD issues could no longer be ignored. When that happened, it was a few years into our marriage. I had refused to marry him until we had been together at least two years, so I thought I knew what I was getting into. WRONG!

Like just about everyone here, I thought it was something I could fix. If I could just talk enough so that he could understand how I saw things, maybe that would do the trick. WRONG!

I was very hurt, angry, disappointed in both him and myself for not seeing what a mess I had stepped in. Now I feel sort of jaded, spent, but in acceptance. I think if I were 20 and didn't have all sorts of entanglements with this person, that I'd be out the door at light speed. But there's comfort in being in a relationship and I've had a lot of time living by myself, so in some ways this isn't much different.

I think my current challenge is not to get upset by his constant mental chaos. As a child, I was described by many as "happy go lucky" and I have an upbeat sense of life. I love to laugh and am always looking for the joy in the moment. Being around a grump is not pleasant nor is it easy. He's not going to change, so I'll just have to cultivate my sense of happy detachment. Easier said than done.

Hey Cat, Thanks.  Yup, I found a kind and supportive companion.  One interesting thing about our r/s is that, after seeing her for about a year, I learned that her Ex also suffers from BPD.  At first I was uncertain whether it was a red flag that I was dating a person who was previously married to a pwBPD, and I started a thread on that subject on the old Dating Board.  Yet we both grew from our experiences and we have a lot of other things in common, so it turns out to be a non-issue.  You're right, I'm "Lucky"!

Concerning your current situation, it sounds a little like you went from the frying pan and into the fire, in terms of dodging a bullet with the military man followed by marriage to an old friend with BPD issues.  I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation.  No, you can't fix it.  When in doubt, you might want to consult the Serenity Prayer.

It seems that, at your core, you are a happy-go-lucky person so I suggest getting back to that person as much as possible, notwithstanding your current predicament.

LuckyJim

@ Sam: Sorry to hijack this thread, temporarily.

@ Cat: P.S.  What was it about that "one relationship in college" that made it so special for you?  Yes, let's count it. LJ

@Cat Familiar

Finding some parallels in your experience to my experience — mainly in that I had a 10 year marriage to someone who in retrospect may have been uBPD. Following the divorce, I was single or serially monogamous, had a glorious and amazing time, in a series of relationships with some wonderful people but quite afraid of commitment.

And then I connected with a good friend that I had been attracted to. Found ourselves single at the same time, with many common interests and dreams. The BPD behavior began surfacing as we became more committed, and the first major flare-up where she seemed to paint me black happened at a gig with my band, where she felt I wasn't giving her enough attention. Rather than back away, I worked hard to woo her back. (Maybe out of a sense that I needed to buckle down and settle down, and that I had hit the "eject" button too early on a series of promising relationships). And before long, we were entangled in living together, buying a house, getting married, starting a family.

I've only known about BPD for a couple of months, but back to Samwize's original post — I'm glad that I know now. It has helped keep my sacred center and space. I was having suicidal thoughts, and felt isolated and unsure of my own sanity or worth as a person. Also experiencing a lot of shame for having married the same kind of angry, unpredictable person 10 years after getting myself free of someone similar.

I'm quite sad sometimes — I feel as though I'm in a situation doomed to be loveless, unless and until I make the leap to separate and end this. It's only the financial entanglement that is keeping me here right now — I sank all of my savings into buying and remodeling this house for her, at her insistence. The crazy thing is, there are so many times I could have bailed, but I didn't because of the perceived financial cost. At one point it was a few hundred dollars invested in a ring, or a few thousand dollars invested in a house closing. And now, there's a little girl and a house in the balance.

Thank you for a very honest and useful thread.  CC

@ LJ - your "hijacks" are always welcome.  That's why I post

@ CC - I follow your ideas there.  I had doubts while engaged, but I had reached a marriageable age and station in life.  I found a local girl of my same faith, which was important, and more or less closed my eyes and jumped into marriage.  I still remember the solemn regret I felt almost right away.  But, everyone has a few regrets when the go from single to married, or so I thought, and I'm not a quitter by any means.  Then days turned to months, and years.  I stayed married, got a house, solid career, then had a kid (which was pivotal and I resolved to stay no matter what).  Then I figured, I might as well have another, because unlike my marriage, kids and fatherhood was an elation like no other. And so on.  Five kids, 20 years of a loveless essentially sexless, landmine-strewn marriage later here I am on bpdfamily message boards.   

The balance sheet goes up and up.  It's your call, but it will need to be fixed or broken, eventually.

@ Cat: P.S.  What was it about that "one relationship in college" that made it so special for you?  Yes, let's count it. LJ

Thanks for asking Lucky Jim. I had to laugh because I had never pondered whether my college boyfriend might have been another individual with a personality disorder and now I'll never know. When we split up it was because he was moving across the country to go to grad school. Things were still rather idyllic, but there were cracks in the lovely picture which might have turned into fissures with time.

@Caco Canepa--I was so wary of getting involved with another difficult person after the marriage to the husband from hell and doubts about the nice guy with the crazy daughter. So having known my current husband as a friend for many years, I automatically assumed that I had a clear picture of who he is.

It didn't occur to me how skillful people with personality disorders are; they are so practiced in hiding their true selves and don't let that part slip out until they've successfully hooked us. I know many of us have gone through a phase as a younger person where we've thought: "If they really know who I am, they won't like me." Well, in the case of people with BPD, that's likely been true time and time again. So they get very good at covering up the "real self."

@SamwizeGamgee--I understand the feeling of finding some of your major criteria met and assuming it will all work out. It's a testimony to thinking positively and doing your best.

To all the dads out there who have wives with BPD: My BPD mother basically sucked all the oxygen out of the room. I grew up walking on eggshells and frequently "setting her off" without any idea of what happened. My dad was always the solid, steady presence that gave me security.

Years later I ponder their relationship and wonder why he stayed with a woman who was so difficult. Obviously it was partly because of me, but I think he was a guy who wanted to do the best, no matter how difficult. At that time, divorce wasn't as common a choice as it is now. I remember my mother asking me around age 5 who I would live with if they got divorced. I told her I'd run away. Perhaps it would have been a healthier environment for me if they had gotten divorced. Certainly it could have been a happier life for my dad.

@ Cat - I am also amazed at how the person I married turned out to be.  I know I was in love and therefore partly blind, but, wow, what did I get into?  She seemed to rapidly transform once we got married.  Ugh.
Thanks for all your comments too.
I love your answer to you mom that you would run away.  Kids are surprisingly honest and well spoken sometimes.  My wife's mom told her to never marry someone like her dad -- and low and behold she (my wife) projects her perception of her dad's behavior onto me.  I believe it feels to her as though she did marry someone just like her dad.  We're nothing alike, and yet she believes that we (myself and FIL) are identical in verbal abuse and control, and who-knows what else.   She sets the kids up to be victims by portraying me as the abuser and tells the kids I'm angry, won't let them do something, will get mad, and so forth.  Then she gets to be the kind mom-rescuer.  They get constant training on how bad I am - and it all comes from her projections.  I hate it.

@SamwizeGamgee--I think I had a long "honeymoon period" because when my husband asked me to marry him, I agreed, but insisted upon a long engagement, thinking I wanted to be sure. So he had to mind his p's and q's for a few years (what an odd expression--something my mother would say).

I thought I knew him by then, so we did get married and now that you mention it, he did rapidly transform after that. Hmmm... .

Once they get you on the hook... .

I also hate that I see this stuff so clearly now.  Another example asking the question if it is better to know or not have known.

Yeah, now that I see these patterns clearly, I've lost respect for my husband. I keep reminding myself that it's a personality disorder; he had an abusive narcissistic dad; it's unlikely to change; it was there all the time but I didn't see it in the beginning because I had such a high need for appreciation; he's not doing it "on purpose"; he really hurts and feels terrible about himself.

Of course, none of that makes me feel better. But then I count my blessings and there definitely are blessings to this relationship, just not the ones I thought I was getting when I signed the marriage license.

If it seems too good to be true... .