BPDFamily.com

All I had to do was read a few other posts to see very strong resemblance to my life.

Married 19 years. Started suspecting personality disorder pretty early on, maybe year 5/6. Looking back, I see cycles of up/down, happy/miserable, hopeful/disgusted... those describe me, by the way, reacting to H's mood cycles and sometimes erratic, damaging, irresponsible behavior and choices.

When he's in the house, I walk on eggshells. I find myself avoiding him whenever possible. Avoidance serves a couple different purposes: I am less likely to set him off if we're not together (although I catch plenty of flak for "ignoring" him) and it also saves me from being constantly groped and hearing over-the-top sexual remarks, which comprise 98% of his conversation attempts. I find that I feel relaxed only when he's gone.

There have been a few instances of physical abuse over the years and infidelity also. Yes, I chose to continue the marriage after his infidelity. I won't go into my reasons now. But, I will say that I now look wistfully back at the weeks he was gone with the other woman. Scared and as alone as I was, I was HAPPY. I was feeling my way toward a new future and had accepted that he was gone for good... .Until he came back. And I made my choice to take him back. A large part me regrets that. Daily.

So here I am. I need help setting boundaries, to protect what dignity I have left. I need help learning to defuse situations before they spiral out of control. I need help coming to terms with the choice I made to take him back seven years ago.

I'll be honest. I do not feel anything toward him that resembles love. I don't feel hate or even very much anger. His actions seldom make me cry anymore, when they always used to. I don't cry anymore because his usual response is to mock me. Contempt is probably the best description of what I feel, mixed with annoyance. 

Is it possible to come back from contempt and indifference toward one's spouse? I don't know, but I guess I'm here because I'd like to find out.

Anyway, hi everyone. I'm sorry we are all here, but I am glad to have found you.

Hi, Perseverant *welcome*

I'm so sorry to hear about your suffering sounds very painful and scary. It is understandable that you lost your hope and you feel lost. Most of us would, and most of us do at times. It is not your fault.

I'm concern about your safety. The way you say it, the phisical abuse was in the past. Not that the emotional abuse hurts less. But if it's not, the first thing has to be keeping you safe. Do you have places to go when things are not safe. Do you have a plan if things go south?

I'll come back to this... .

I thank you for sharing your experience with us. I think it will be useful for others and maybe yourself if you can talk about the reasons you had to take him back, and for staying, to counteract everything you say.

It must be hard to realize you don't feel love anymore. And find out what you feel is indiference and anoyance. How long have you been feeling that way? I think we all can feel like that for a day, for a while... .But when you feel it is all that it's left, that's another matter. Did you still love him when you took him back? Do you think he loves you behind the disorder?

Those are hard questions and I'm sorry. I'm just trying to know what are your goals, and the motivation for those goals.

It is possible to defuse situations and to improve our day to day life. If you can recover the feelings you had for him, that's up to you. I mean, I don't think you can choose it, but it is personal. Someone's experience doesn't necesarily apply to another one.

I spent almost a year forcing myself to feel hopeful again for my marriage, but I couldn't, and everyone suffered in the process. My ex-wife changed a lot of things,and made a lot of new promises, and efforts. But that only made me sadder, as I couldn't believe anymore, and I felt guilty of rejecting her shows of afection and faith in me. In my case, I did love her a lot still, as a person. I just didn't believe in us as a couple, I didn't want sex, or dates, or travel together. But I wanted to hug her and keep her safe, and I wanted her to be happy. Do you still love him in some way?

I wish you get to feel better and improve your life. You took a step today towards that, it's not easy, and you did it.

Thank you for the replies.

I do have an escape plan if violence occurs. I have a little money squirreled away that he can't access and a bag packed. I keep my car gassed up.

Why did I take him back? First, I guess because it was a miracle he returned in the first place. He had left the country to be with the other woman. I didn't even know he was out of the country, just that he was gone. His return seemed like a hopeful sign, I suppose. Second, I was on the verge of turning 40, not interested in being "damaged goods" at a major milestone in life. Third, I like to beat the odds. I like an underdog. (More realistic me now recognizes the costs of foolish optimism.)

Why do I stay? We had children after his return.  I have no interest in remarrying if we split. I can't justify breaking up my little ones' home because I'm unhappy. Now, if there were constant danger/fighting/otherwise unhealthy aspects of the home, my resolve would be different. As it is, my little ones are happy, friendly, well-adjusted people. Whatever I can do to improve how I manage my relationship with H will only be a net positive.

Ultimately, the reason I stay can be summed up thusly: duty. No one promised me a rose garden. However, I made several promises when I married, and I don't perceive that I've been released from those.

I'd say I recognized in 2014 that I don't love H anymore. Events since that realization have eroded lack of love to near indifference and frequent contempt. Note: those events include things not directly related to our relationship. We suffered the loss of some of our children... .That inevitably changes a lot about a person's emotional DNA. As a result, I sometimes question whether my indifference toward H is about him or about me and how losing our children altered me. I am nowhere near the same person I was before.

But, that doesn't change the fact of H's evident BPD. It complicates it, sure, but it's still a separate issue. I am certain he loves me. I can see evidence of it. He can pull off some pretty impressive feats for the good of the family. Of course, he'd like to receive affection in return... .which is a constant sticking point. The aggregate of his antics over the years combined with the personal hell we've been through result in me not feeling any desire to try to be close to him.

So, I guess I'm left resigned to staying but wanting to do what I can to make the next few decades more livable. I'm not even asking for happy. Just bearable. 

Hi,

thanks a lot for clarifying the situation, everything makes perfect sense now. I'm sorry things got to this point and that your life has taken so many blows. But I'm really glad that your little ones are happy and well adjusted. That's a miracle and it is priceless.

I was sure I would have stayed in my marriage if there was children. But one of our differences was that I wanted kids and she didn't. My current GF has two kids, and she run from home with them, because the abuse was starting to extend to the kids. They can turn from euphoric happy to crying and hitting things in a second. They are loved by both of us, and they have a good life now, but they are not well adjusted. Their dad was Narcisistic for sure, and has abandon them completely (not even a birthday call), and their mom is struggling with BPD. So I guess genetics have something to do with this. I find them very different from other kids. But we hope that using validation and caring and safety for them continuated, can help them be more stable as adults.

I understand that sense of duty. I don't know if it's right or wrong. What I know is that it is part of us. It is sad, because I am sure that you deserve much more than that. But I respect your commitment, and I hope with the improving you can do, maybe you can star healing some wounds, and feel better yourself. I understand that you don't want to hope for happyness, when you are not feeling much hope. You don't want to be optimistic again, and be wrong.

Best of luck, and keep us posted.

Hi Perseverant,

I'd like to join JoeBPD81 and welcome you to the community. I'm sorry to hear that your feelings have altered to the point where you are just tolerating the relationship. That is difficult, and I understand your reasons for wanting to stay. The good news is that things can get better for you, even if your husband doesn't want to change.


I hear you, and I think bearable is definitely possible. From there, you may get to pleasant and even happy. 

I recommend digging in to the Lessons on the right sidebar of this board ------>

With communication tools and other skills, things can improve. For example, you mentioned boundaries in your introduction.

How have you dealt with them up to this point? What has been the most difficult part so far?

Keep posting. We're here to support you.

heartandwhole

heartandwhole - Boundaries... .The most difficult part has been understanding what they are. Then, how to establish and maintain them. Basically, you could say I just don't get it. I will expose myself for the sad sack I've been and admit that my own lack of "self" has been the main obstacle to figuring out the boundary thing. I mean, when a person doesn't recognize her own worth, she doesn't properly defend it, right?

It's not so much lack of self-esteem. I'm an accomplished person, and I don't think of myself as worthless. However, early in the relationship, we became glued together to the point that you couldn't tell where one began and the other ended. Seems romantic, or like the way love is supposed to be, until you gain maturity and perspective and realize no one can live like that long term. So, my worth became linked to him. My identity got lost in the co-identity.

I don't know if I'm making sense or spouting nonsense here. 

Here's an example of a boundary I have clung to: I won't let him call me certain bad words. I used to, but then I had enough and said "if you call me that word, the conversation ends." It hasn't stopped him from calling me that word (we're talking the c*** word, mainly), but I have walked out of conversations when it's used.

Now, here's a question: what is the purpose of a boundary? If it isn't to make someone stop doing something (as my H still calls me that word when he gets worked up), what is it for?

A boundary is something we choose to have- for us. It isn't about making the other person do or not do something. We really can not control someone else. What you have done- told your H you do not like being called a bad word, and then ending the conversation or walking away if he says it is a boundary. It's for you - it is like telling yourself you are worth it.

A boundary reflects our values. We all have them. The hard part is upholding them. For instance if you say no to something and your H gets upset, it challenges your boundary. We have to hold on to our boundaries in order for them to mean something.

An emotional boundary is knowing what is you, and what is not you. It is being able to be present to someone who is experiencing some emotions and knowing that this is them, not you- not being so enmeshed that you take them on. It is also knowing who you are, and what is true about you and not true. If someone makes a false accusation about you, it is knowing that it isn't true, and the person saying it doesn't make it true.

Love is a choice, not a feeling. You may or may not make that choice with your H, but you can choose to love yourself- and gain your self worth- regardless of what choice you make with your husband. I think sometimes we can be disconnected from our feelings.  Consider that we are better at loving others when our own needs are met. Can you do some positive things for you? Have you considered any kind of counseling- not for your marriage- but for you- to help you with your sense of self worth?

Hello Perseverent, I'm hopping in here from your other thread, perhaps this is a better place to gather.  I'm glad you have a safety plan.  How current is any concern about physical abuse?  Have there been incidents, and if so, how long ago was the most recent one?  Sorry if I've missed a reply on this already... .

Your comments on boundaries made total and complete sense.  When we get engulfed in a relationship and lose ourselves, by definition our boundaries get lost.  The way you are acting out your boundary on bad language sounds spot on -- you are controlling your behavior.

Wentworth

Hi Perseverant,

being lost in a co-identity makes sense. I experinced that, and I'm affraid of doing it again. I work and study and sleep, and I do things with the kids... .So I don't have much time for myself; most of that time I spend it researching BPD, writing/reading here, and listening to my GF. I am "the partner of someone with BPD" maybe more than anything else. In my previous marriage, I introduced myself often as "X's husband", I felt in a deep way that we were one entity, that it was impossible to tell when one of us ended and the other started. I also wondered about it at first, as in "how deep is our love!", and I took pride on that. I saw how much other couples argued and we didn't, and I took pride on that. I was a very good husband. After my marriage ended, I really had trouble remembering who I was, it is even hard to remember how my life has been, how was my day-to-day life in my marriage. It is even scary.

I also have trouble understanding the boundaries concept. It's like I get it, and then it slips my mind. I think it happens to all of us, it takes time and practice to make it your own. As Notwendy said, boundaries are for you, they are not a teaching tool. They could work as that after a lot of time. The longer the behavios has been in place, the longer the boundary has to be firm in order for him to change his behavior, I guess. Eventually, he will learn that by calling you names, he loses your attention. He will rebel against that revelation, and he could maybe call you more names... .Then it's when the boundary must be the firmest. And there could come a time that he changes his behavior, because it has no pay off.

If that's your goal, it could be very frustrating, because it is a very long term goal. But when you recognise the benefits of the boundary for yourself, it works from the first day.

It also serves as a "stop doing things that doesn't work" thing. If he calls you a name, and then you argue, or ask him how he can be so insensitive, what you have done to deserve that, or tell him "you are the one that's a... ." Maybe you have a crisis of 5 days. If you just leave, maybe half an hour later, things are better. That practice has changed my life. And the first times it worked, it felt like a miracle. She regulates herself, and then she comes to me and apologizes, or she is even affectionate, or thanks me for being me. I reward that behavior by being nice (even though sometimes I'm still hurt), and not taking advantage of the situation for telling her "I told you so".

Be patient. Things make sense in the end, there is a lot to learn, so start with what rings true and useful to you. And don't get overwhelmed with what seems too complicated or too alien to your personality. It can feel too much, I spend weeks without login here, or reading anything related, or cutting our conversations short, because everybody needs a break. I'm happy to have a lot more to learn, but I'll do it at a pace that I can handle. I started less than a year ago, and at first I felt all kinds of things (overwhelmed, hopeless, misunderstood... .) but after a month or so, I started seeing it as many new paths opening to me, when I had felt walking in a dead end.

Read one lesson one day, watch a video another day... .Pick a book that sounds interesting to you... .And do all that when you feel like it. If you force yourself to work too hard, you might want to just quit. And I can tell you it is worth it to stay.

 


Notwendyand JoeBPD81 did a good job of explaining that boundaries about you and not the other person. Perhaps expressing how you talk  about boundaries with yourself in a different way will help. Rather than saying "establish" a boundary, think of defining it. You see, the boundaries already exist because they are part of your core values. Everyone has them. We just fail to maintain them sometimes.

Core values are nothing more than the values by which you live and the things that motivate you. Everything that is not part of the core value is outside the boundary.

When we allow others to manipulate and dictate our behaviors, and we do something that goes against our core values, that's when we have failed to maintain our boundaries. Learning to say "no" is a great first step in learning to maintain a boundary.

I think that most people get confused by the distinction between independent and interpersonal boundaries.

The boundaries described above are independent. They exist within ourselves no matter what or who we are dealing with. Interpersonal boundaries are the boundaries that exist by agreement in a relationship. Sometimes these are expressly discussed; but, what is usually the case, they are presumed or assumed. No infidelity is an example of an interpersonal boundary that is just presumed in a romantic relationship. We just take it for granted that being in a relationship means monogamy.

Defining interpersonal boundaries in a relationship when they have just been presumed or assumed by one party generally takes place when one party does something that the other party does not want in the relationship. One person does something, the other doesn't like it, the two fight or otherwise discuss it and a decision is made what is acceptable and what is not acceptable within the confines of the relationship.

Does that help?

Thank you again, everyone, for the replies. This forum is worth its weight in gold.

Notwendy , I have had counseling during a few separate stints in the past, the most recent being 2015. I really liked and respected my therapist. He helped me gain perspective on a lot of things. The last time I saw him, I recall him asking "do you want to stay in this marriage?" I didn't have an answer. But I also recall him saying "not every problem has a solution." That came as a huge revelation and paradigm shift for me. I'm a fixer, so entertaining the idea I may be impotent in a certain situation is both unsettling and liberating at the same time.

Meili, thank you for the insight on boundaries. Your explanation does help.

JoeBPD81, I appreciate what you are saying about not trying to drink from the firehose, so to speak. You really do have to put this subject down at times. Distance gives me time to think and experiment, and to catch my breath.

Wentworth, I would guesstimate that, in 19 years of marriage, there have been maybe two dozen incidents of physical violence against me. The most recent was March of this year. He's never outright hit/punched me; there's been shoving, choking, hair pulling, screaming directly into my ear, throwing things at me... .Good times. In March, most of the incident occurred in front of or in earshot of my terrified children. They and I had just returned from a fun outing to find H in a rage about something work-related. He asked me a question and, apparently, he didn't like the answer. He went off on me. When he left the house to run an errand later, I packed bags for the kids and me and we left. Went to an undisclosed location for the night. H discovered we were gone and called to urge me not to "escalate" the situation. He offered a lame explanation for his behavior (not an apology, mind you, because the whole thing was actually my fault). Anyway, I declined to come home and stayed away for the one night. My poor sweet kids... .I made it a fun sleepover for them. They had been so frightened by what they saw/heard. They were just 2 and 4 at the time. 

I'm always concerned something like that will break out again. I need to know how to handle it if it does. I know to run, and I'm prepared to bolt from the situation if needed. What would really help is to understand what to do/not do when I see storm clouds on the horizon. Can I head off a rage before it goes nuclear?

Many times, yes, the escalation can be stopped. Listening with empathy, not invalidating, and validating the valid goes a long way to preventing a small spark from becoming a raging forest fire that leaves nothing but destruction in it's path. There are good explanations of what it means to listen with empathy and to not be invalidating in the sidebar on the right side of the page. There are many more tools and explanations here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0).

How we talk to others and what we say becomes extremely important in preventing the situation from quickly becoming out of control. When we audibly sigh, roll our eyes, huff, etc. we convey messages to other people just as strongly as our words do. (I was shocked to learn just how badly I invalidated others with my words and actions.) Learning more effective ways to communicate is key.

Whoa, Meili, you hit the nail on the head. These are things I do that H regularly cites as problems. Okay. Excellent advice here that I am going to work on. Muchas gracias.

You know when construction sites have signs proclaiming how many days have passed since their last accident? I'm considering making a (small) sign proclaiming how many days since H wigged out. Maybe at least I can prolong it by reforming myself where appropriate.

Perseverant,

I have thought of the exact same metaphor! (The construction sign that says, "14 days since the last dysregulation accident".  And I have challenged myself to see how long I can extend it.  And sometimes you can get a bonafide "save" and keep things from going south by controlling your responses, validating, etc.  Go for it!  It makes life better.  But don't confuse this with taking responsibility for your husband losing it.  At some point, things will go south, and do not for one second feel like you are responsible.  If you score a save, think of that as "extra credit."

On the physical stuff, it's kind of similar.  You may see it coming, or you may not.  If it is infrequent, but still in his repertoire, that almost makes it seem tougher to predict than if you had regular "practice" as awful as that may sound.  You may or may not know that much violence can occur when someone leaves.  I'm not telling you not to leave, but be aware of this and make sure once you start to leave, you have a clear path out.  Things like using a rear exit, taking the kids or dog for a walk and not coming back, etc.

Shoving, choking, hair pulling and screaming are awful.  I am so sorry to hear that you were subjected to this.  It does not matter a wit if he never hit or punched you.  What he did was terrible and just as illegal.

It sounds like you are not concerned about physical violence on a regular basis, but are smart about wanting to prepare for the next time.  I've become a fan of the national domestic violence hotline and their Web site, www.thehotline.org.  One thing to check for is if there are other abusive elements in your relationship.

Start with this link:
www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/abuse-defined/

Then look at this link:
www.thehotline.org/healthy-relationships/relationship-spectrum/
Is your relationship unhealthy or abusive?  I found this graphic very helpful because I had that exact question.

I'm dwelling on the abuse issue, but I know that's only a small part of why you are here.  Definitely read those resources.  Validation, mentioned above, is my favorite because I find it easiest to use and have the best success record with it.  Avoiding JADEing has been another big improvement in our household.  You can absolutely make day-to-day life better by employing these techniques!

Wentworth

Hi Perseverent,

I was just noticing the earlier talk about boundaries.  Hit those hotline links first, but after that, take a look at these links on boundaries:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=94125.20
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368

In that first resource, you'll notice a lot of the things that Meili is talking about.

Wentworth