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This week has been a very difficult one. I said in my last post that I felt there was something different about the split this time and I was right. What is different is that I think my uBPDex married lover wanted out also. I also said that I hoped there wasn't an emotional Tsunami in the post and my fears were well founded. I know myself pretty well.

Without wishing to sound melodramatic I have been having some pretty bleak thoughts. As I was washing up a sharp knife I thought about cutting myself. I have never self harmed with knives before but I did used to punch myself in the face. My wife has gone away for a few days and I gave her a lift to the airport. She thought I had got lost, which I hadn't and started to stress resulting in me punching myself in the face. Thankfully she couldn't see what I was doing as it was dark but I had to ask her to contain her anxiety as it was triggering mine. I think some of this is the fallout of the r/s with the ex but alot of it is also my own failed stress coping mechanism.

When I came on these boards I saw myself as a stable man and the victim of my ex's unresonable behaviour. However, I have come to realise over the last six months that I too have serious issues around emotional dysregulation. I have also addressed my own morality as I was falling short of my belief system. My wife is a great role model. She is a person of great integrity and has always been honest and reliable. She deserves my full love and attention. I am saying this out loud because whatever pain I am suffering, it is not and has never been fair on her.

The affair with the ex is over and I am concentrating on the r/s with my wife. I feel morally correct once again, which is a lovely feeling. However, letting go of the fantasy of what my ex and I had is the most difficult thing. I used to love-bomb her during the r/s but I was also uncompromising whenever she imposed ST on me or pushed me away, both of which  were frequent. I would berate her with angry texts and tell her she had ruined my life. There is no doubt that we triggered each other's abandonment complexes and it served to up the emotional intensity and pain. This week has been very painful because I miss her, but I know I have done the right thing. I am really giving my marriage my full attention and while my wife is away for the weekend, I will take the time to further examine how my marriage can be improved.

RF

RF, it sounds like a rough time, so it's extra important to take care of yourself. I think I can relate to what you are describing--a situation where you are learning a lot about yourself and it's an opportunity for some amazing growth, but there's also a lot of pain in learning these things (plus the pain of the end of the relationship).
I'm glad you shared about the dark thoughts you're having--sorry to hear you are experiencing this, but glad you are sharing, because you shouldn't have to carry them alone.
In my experience, the comparison of the relationship to a drug was somewhat helpful, because it validated the feelings of withdrawal I was experiencing, not that that made things any easier. One thought that comes to my mind is it sounds like you have a lot of pent up energy. You have one release for this energy which is familiar to you, but harmful. Do you have any self-care releases in place--a physical activity or creative outlet? Incorporating something like this into your routine can really help.
I don't mean to just give free advice--this is coming from a guy who also struggles with emotional regulation. Finally, I know it sounds cliche, but remember that recovery is not linear. Bad weeks will happen, but you're on the path. It will get better. Having some issues to work on in your life is not so unusual--it's a process for all of us, and it does not mean you can't be a stable guy. Hang in there.

This is a significant thing to share,  vulnerable yet honest. 

My son sometimes hits himself when he feels stressed about something he did.  I'm there to help him deal with these feelings.  Do you have any real life support?

A fourteen year relationship is not going to go down without a lot of pain.  

My observations, RomanticFool, is that facing rejection is so painful that you go to extremes to avoid it - even rejecting her. That avoidance is now surfacing in others ways.

You are on a good path with your marriage and that is great. You can find some solace in that and it will become more and more rewarding as you become emotionally available to it.

In the short term, you need to grieve the affair and expel that hurt - not bottle it in or drink it away, or hurt yourself.

Have you thought about doing some consuming/draining exercise? Have you thought about anxiety meds (have to be real careful with this).

Going back to the three legged stool analogy from earlier, affairs are adjunct relationships - they don't stand alone, its hard to apply rules and expectations and even a code of morality to them. Was she doing the right thing to end it or was that abusive? Most would say the former... .it's just a quagmyre to navigate when you are in one. In all affairs, there is a lot of collateral damage in the end - a lot.

Skip,


As usual, your observations are pretty spot on. Isn't avoiding pain by rejecting others a BPD trait? You told me a while ago that I don't have BPD but isn't much of my behaviour similar to my ex's - albeit much less extreme? While I don't go to Armageddon with my rejection issues and I don't act on suicidal feelings - isn't it still on the same behavioural spectrum? Do you think I'd be diagnosed as having BPD traits?

In my mind I have often pushed my ex away because she was hurting me. If we take this year I pushed her away in February because she came back from a cruise  (she managed to be miserable on that too but not without sardonic humour - she took a photo of the deck of the boat with the heading: Death's waiting room) where we were talking everyday to her suddenly announcing that her husband had discovered our affair and she could no longer see me. I didn't believe her. Prior to her going away I felt that she was inflicting more and more ST on me and I look back on it now and it seems like we were in the devaluation stage. Whenever I said anything at all to her that she didn't like she would call me aggressive and not talk to me for 3 days and then demand an apology for cutting her off FB. This became the pattern. It was also the last thing that happened too. She told me she was coming to my home town with her husband, though on this occasion all I said was 'Oh' and then she suggested I was upset. I told her I was way beyond upset which then caused a 5 day silence. Again I cut her off FB.

I am going through the details again because while I understand that cutting her off FB was triggering her, in my mind, it was the only way I could make her understand how hurtful the ST had been. I am not seeking validation for my behaviour, but asking the question, is it not understandable given the slow burn, torturous effect of her passive aggression to me over a long period of time? Is it a major flaw in my character and emotional life that I wasn't able to remain empathic in the face of this torture - or is it understandable (if inadvisable) given the hell I had been through?

To me my behaviour actually seems restrained compared to how I used to behave towards her. I would confront her and accuse her of emotional abuse in the past. Of course that would make her retreat. I think my push/pull with my ex was under extreme duress. I tried extremely hard to engage her in conversation. She would immediately play the victim and say I was attacking her, even in my more reasonable moments. I was so deeply in love with her that I ignored all of my instincts and often apologised and made up just so I could talk to her again. Am I the unreasonable one or is her behaviour so outrageous that it triggered my emotional volatility? That is how I see it.

Turkish,

I have friends and AA where I can share my issues. In fact somebody mentioned to me a suicide prevention organisation over here called The Listening Place. Not that I feel suicidal but they heard me share about 'a friend' and felt compelled to offer support. So I am not completely alone.

I play a great deal of sport and go to the gym.

RF

vanx,

Thank you for your reply. I think many of us come on here feeling like victims of our ex's and discover that we have issues ourselves. I am coming to terms with my own emotional volatility as it is a major issue in my life. I also have an inner emptiness and co-dependency which I am becoming ever more aware of and trying to address.

I play a great deal of sport and go to the gym. I need to exercise for the endorphins as it staves off depression. Your suggestion is absolutely spot on.

Give all the advice you want, it is gratefully accepted and anybody talking to me at a time of great despair is truly welcome. Thank you.

I hope you continue to become self aware throughout this process. There is valuable information and insight on these boards.

RF

Skip,

I don't feel like I need to be on anxiety meds. I have grieved alot in my life: My brother died when he was 17 in 1985 and I lost my mother in 2005.

I have always exercised. I play soccer on Sundays which is exhausting and I do zumba at the gym on Wednesdays. On top of this I swim and run on the treadmill. I have recently been diagnosed with COPD and while my lung function is still good at 80% I am symptomatic (hence the diagnosis) and I cough and struggle a bit sometimes.  Nevertheless, I am a great believer in exercise and do as much as my work and inherent laziness will allow.


I agree it is an emotional morass of epic proportions. I think what actually happened was that we both just let go. She always told me FB was symbolic for her and I think I was cutting her off to punish her for the ST. While it was inadvisable, it was clearly my intention to try to detach from her. I read your post about not engaging a pwBPD in conversation if they attack you if you really want them gone. So when she accused me of being malicious, I let it go. My own personality triggers her and I do not want another outbreak of suicide threats and maybe even going through with it. I think in the end we had both had enough. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was some manipulation in her suicide threats to me, but also a great deal of pain - I just felt that we had hurt each other enough. She clearly felt that I had hurt her enough - sadly, she would never consider her own behaviour. I have accepted that about her.


RF

I didn't say you didn't have BPD  :) , I was clarifying that I wasn't diagnosing you. Slight difference. For what  we do here, member-labeling isn't very helpful.

This was your first post... .


After what you have been through here, do you still think this?  NPD traits with 'abandonment' issues.

I only post this out in the sense that if it is true, then its likely some of your view of what happened would likely be distorted. And to continue that thought, some of the pain you are feeling is tied to the distortion.

I'm not suggestion delusional or psychotic break - just some off-shifts in perspective. I mention this as cleaning up the perspective - getting in clearer, more realistic, might help you in your grieving.

Not that it really matters, but my memory is that you said my ex is weak and I am the stronger one. I thought you said that I don't have BPD. I agree that labelling isn't very helpful anyway, but my feeling is that if I am on the spectrum so to speak, then I need to do something about it.

I am struck by the accuracy and level headedness of that first post. I clearly remember mentioning BPD to my ex as a way of explaining her emptiness.

I have suspected NPD traits in me for some time. However, I had a friend who was a full blown NPD and his behaviour was very different to mine. He was far more extreme. We had a disagreement one time and he started to harass me on a daily basis and leave abusive messages on my phone. He told me I was a terrible friend and that I had been using him for years. This guy was a close friend of mine. The harassment continued and became worse and worse. Everybody who ever met him thought him to be charismatic, unboundaried, aggressive and openly had screaming fits at his wife. He made every conversation about him. In the end I had to involve the police as his behaviour became frightening. They warned him not to contact me. The last I heard he emigrated to New Zealand.

Now, I admit to behaving with a degree of aggression (verbal - never physical) in the r/s with my ex. I feel that I did this because once I became emotionally engaged after sleeping with her, I was unable to regulate my emotions in the face of her ST and what I saw as general lack of fairness and empathy in dealing with me. I believe I may be on the NPD or BPD spectrum but I am certain I am nothing like my former friend. He was off the chart.


I have no doubt that if I was a calmer person and more in control of my emotions, I would still be in contact with my ex today. I take much of the blame for heightening the intensity and triggering her issues.

I have always had this dysfunctional notion of perfect love. I felt like we were made for each other when we first got together, despite her being married. I followed this idea of being soul mates and she bought into it at various times but was quick to push me away once I engulfed her. I told her once that if it hadn't been for my passion and adoration we would not still be in contact. She replied: 'Have you ever considered that we are in touch despite it.'

In my life one thing I hate is half heartedness. I consider that I had such an extreme passion that if she didn't return it in the same way then she was not being true to our love. Now, at various times she was at least as intense as me. She begged me to call her in Vegas one time when she was on holiday with her husband. There were other times where she was needy. I always did as she asked. She never once did anything I asked in terms of making me feel better and always pulled away. That unfairness as I saw it has always been the crux of my resentment and outrage towards her. The FB thing was punishing her for hurting me. I can see that now.

I definitely have abandonment issues. I definitely have emotional dysregulation. I become toxic when somebody I love treats me in a way that I consider to be unjust. I cannot have a calm conversation with somebody I love who tells me I am driving her away with my anger - when she constantly gave me ST for several days at a time when we had agreed that we were soul mates. My biggest trigger was that she was not fair. She did not play by the agreed rules. She would play by the rules for a while ie regular daily contact and then when she was in some kind of turmoil or crisis - drama would happen. The big crises were drinking again, trouble with her son, death in the family and her depression. What would also rile me was after having written of my deep love for her, only receiving two words in reply or get told that she was lonely and couldn't bear it. When I mentioned that I had just confessed undying love she would say, 'but you are not here.' That triggered me terribly.

I have sometimes threatened to leave my marriage and my wife has done the same. We both have the same abandonment issues. However, my wife is a fair minded woman of integrity and we always resolve these issues. We have agreed not to threaten to walk out on each other - in fact when we first met that was her default setting.

Ringing in my ears is the message: we meet our emotional equivalents.

I think the answer to your question is that I probably do have NPD traits which become triggered by abandonment issues - especially by somebody I feel co-dependently addictive towards. I have never felt that desperation towards my wife - but with the ex I felt like I couldn't function properly unless I was with her. I have felt this way in the past about other women too. However, because I do not feel like this towards my wife, I consider it a far healthier r/s and is precisely the reason I want to stay married. I don't think I love my wife any less, I just think because she is fair minded and healthy, she doesn't trigger me. That has got to be good going forward... .

I have also got to realise that this co-dependent desperation rooted in sexual attraction is not love. As we say in AA, it is lust masquerading as love.