BPDFamily.com

Hi - this is my first post on the forum but I have been reading it for months and thankful for it. I was left by my bf of two years. We are both in our 40’s and going through divorces to be together. I realize there are issues with me and I’m very surprised by all of my behavior, but I still need feedback. He came on very strong and portrayed me as the first person he’s truly loved. There were red flags, of course, but I always felt I was handling them fine and he consistently wanted me, didn’t break up once... We really had a lot of bonding and chemistry (something I didn’t have with my very stable and reliable husband). We have kids the same age and I could tell my BPD ex had low self esteem when it came to my husband and son... .he just didn’t feel adequate, but I was very appreciative of him and treated him with compassion, respect and appreciation. He’s been diagnosed over the years with a lot but I’m not sure BPD was ever one of them, however I’m certain he has a lot of traits and his family history is that of not being validated.

He was never angry and did not yell at me in person, but over text he would have episodes of unrealistic accusations and fear and would apologize for them the next day. He really wanted me to be with him although he said he didn’t expect me to get divorced for him (just words which never matched actions - contradictions). I think he felt very competitive with me and my lifestyle but I could tell I was special to him.

As we got closer to being divorced and living together he started withdrawing, but still texted me nice things, song lyrics, made me food and tried to buy me things. I had moved into an apt but didn’t feel that he helped me emotionally as much as I helped him. We didn’t enjoy a lot of dating freedom as we were trying not to confuse the kids and going through divorces, but he did want me to live with him, take care of me, make his house ours, etc.

I had gone on vacation and came back to find out he had been talking to a girl (stranger he never met in person) on the phone and he said it was a sounding board for him. He promised he was done and we spent Easter with his family. His family said they had never seen him as calm as when he was with me. When he started to withdraw over he summer I asked if he needed a break and he got visibly upset. I was about to go away for another 3 weeks and he argued with me that he feels like he is responsible for my anxiety and he’s the same person he’s always been. He followed the next week with saying how he didn’t want to lose me and he hung out with me and his kids one day and said he can’t wait for it to be our family. 4 days later he called saying he can’t  be in a relationship (that’s all he ever wanted) doesn’t know who he is and needs to get his ___ together, stop drinking. When I went over to get my things he cried and cried and begged me to stay in contact. He sent a text saying we can’t go on with him being rude and distant and how this is probably the biggest mistake of his life. Then he drove straight over to a girls house and soon after was in a full relationship with her. He was miserable, tried to commit suicide and called me crying every few weeks. They finally broke up and we talked like we might get back together. I felt like he was trying to give me all different reasons for why he left, but they didn’t make sense. The entire time always telling me how much he loved and cared for me.

HE and the girl finally broke up and I went over one night and stayed with him, and now it’s been a month and I haven’t heard from him. When he was with her he simply said he was drowning his sorrows and simply could not be alone.

My question is - when we finally got to the point where we could have everything he wanted, he bowed out and I feel like this new relationship he was in got to do all the things we couldn’t (have the kids sleep over and such) he was very immature about it and didn’t think of his kids being confused at all. He admitted that. He’s never painted me black that I can see. He continues to be nice and will not ask for his items back, still keeps things on our calendar. I know he’s holding on but all the stories here show exes who were blocked and raged at. Does this mean he didn’t really care for me and let me go out of actually not loving me? All signs do not show this and his family says he’s never said a bad word about me and told them I was “special”.

I still haven’t really had a conversation with him when he is sober! The one time after the breakup he was sober and talked, he was saying how our connection was better than anyone he ever had  and maybe we’d be back together but don’t hold my breath, wanted sex  and said how much he missed me. He didn’t really seem to like this girl at all and would ask me if he could bring her to our soccer games (why ask me)?

So why hasn’t he painted me black, and why did he finally stop communicating with me after his new relationship broke up? He doesn’t like to be alone. He will not ignore me if I text but I just haven’t. He is so insecure and I feel for him but he has to take some responsibility if he wants something. Why suddenly stop talking to me now that he’s alone? The last night I spent there he acted like he was trying to give me closure, but it was all over the place and still saying how much he loved me. Then nothing for a month. Thank you for any support!

hi Nwish and *welcome*

i moved your thread here because it sounds like youre uncertain but open to rekindling the relationship, do i have that right? if not, just let us know. if so, now would be a good time to get very well acquainted with the lessons and tools directly to the right of the board.

have the two of you completed divorce? are the two of you living nearby each other?

Yes - moving it is great - thank you. I am open to rekindle bc I changed my life for this person and we have been through a lot. We live in the same town and share a few friends, but he has since withdrawn from a lot (he quit coaching his son’s team suddenly due to personal problems, just left the kids hanging). He was only with the other girl for 3-4 months and they broke up every 3 days he says. He misses that she was younger, but doesn’t miss her as a person. It’s all so crazy. He has asked me several times if what he did made me bitter. He also apologized for it but seems like he knows he just can’t be with me. Said he was so convinced that’s what he wanted. While with the other girl he would text and tell me that “we were it” and he will always love me. I’m not a bitter person but I am deeply, deeply hurt and every time I have the chance to talk with him o don’t tell him the things that are on my mind. It bothers me.

He has completed divorce - a few days after our breakup. I am close.

what led you to discovering BPD? was it before or after things went south?

It was after. I read a lot about depression, ADHD and Bipolar Disorder during the relationship. He was taking meds for all three. I knew he was depressed and had low self esteem. His moods shifted a lot and I did feel like I was walking on eggshells not wanting to say something that would cause our day to go sour. It was cyclic. It was after he left that I was so confused and found BPD. I knew about his past and his mom would always tell me to “stay strong”, even though she was never aware of anything sour between us.

He definitely has relationship attachment issues and told me he needed a lot of reassurance, love, and affection and attention (which I though I gave him). He also told me he needs control, not of me, but of his environment. He was impulsive and changed like the wind (not about me until the end). He admittedly couldn’t handle criticism or too much going on at once. He would tell me when his “confidence was low”,  when he needed space and such, but it would be at strange times, like when we made plans.

When he left he said his life will never be the same bc he wanted to spend it with me, chose me, and I was the steady one until he noticed my worry. He found out I was worried about women at work. I’m not typically jealous (he was very jealous - to an irrational point), but I started to get nervous after he was withdrawing emotionally.

thats a good working knowledge. as you learn more, it will help iron out more of the confusion. there is a certain inherent instability with BPD traits, and we tend to get confused trying to anticipate, predict, etc.

and do take caution in your learning. a lot of literature on the internet is rife with urban legends, and tends to lump individuals with BPD traits together as a group of people that all behave in the same ways, which it sounds like some of your confusion may be coming from.

it sounds like theres major crisis in his life. it would not surprise me if a great deal of his own confusion and crisis is coming from the ending of his marriage. what do you think?


can you elaborate on this? what happened there?

While on that spring vacation and finding out about the girl he was talking to as a sounding board, I just didn’t get over it and brought it up trying to tell him that it was bothersome to me. At one point I said that I almost left him bc I thought he chose someone else (even though I couldn’t believe that after how much he wanted me for so long). I also meant that I thought he was leaving - I wouldn’t have left. I’m very curious and was looking things up on my phone (I almost thought if I could catch him doing something wrong I could make a decision about my life. I was having a hard time accepting the change from my home and security to his home and lack of security, although I loved him and wouldn’t actually give him up). My therapist thought I was growing and moving forward.

Well, he had an old phone of mine for his kids to play an app with and one day I logged into my google drive and he was able to see all the things I was searching for on Google. He said I would drive myself crazy. He also saw some texts and stuff to male friends of mine (family friends he knew about). Inoccent texts but he wanted me to only care about him. He once got upset bc I listed another male coach first in the subject line of an email. I think he tried really hard to contain his emotions but it built up. He also didn’t like that he would look at my son and see my husband and that he would always have that last name - it was very juvenile.

Yes - I believe the ending of his marriage played a huge role. They fought often and the relationship wasn’t the greatest but I’m sure it was tough for him even though he chose that. Life was easier with her as the mother of his kids. It makes me sad bc I asked him not to get divorced for my sake but for his own relationship demise. He didn’t have much good to say about her so I didn’t see him being terribly upset about it. I know he doesn’t blame or resent me but it hurts my self esteem knowing that he maybe wishes he never chose me. I wonder if he claims to love me so much still and is nice out of guilt. But I really do feel like he must have felt something genuine for me. They won’t get back together though. She is moving on and they still argue.

Could the marriage ending have affected him even if he doesn’t wish to be with her anymore? She did terrible things to him during the divorce process

with BPD, there is typically an inherent lack of trust in others, even more so with loved ones. trust can be built over the long haul like in any relationship, but it will often be second guessed, even if briefly.


do you trust him?

an important rule is to trust actions over words. as you say, he is impulsive, and he can flip on a dime. its really important to take what he says to you about others, and his circumstances, with a grain of salt.

the ending of a marriage will affect everyone to greater or lesser degrees. it becomes a huge part of our identity. if you take someone with an inherently shaky sense of identity, it would be huge - they wouldnt necessarily know who they are, who to be, what to do with themselves. i think it probably speaks to a lot of what you have seen, and confusion you have faced.

Sorry - I modified my post right before you asked if I trusted him so I’m not sure it showed up in time. It’s above that.

I did trust him but stopped after the talking to that girl. He Does share a lot of information about what he is doing that would make him seem untrustworthy even though he swares he has always told me the truth (I think his dishonesty come from omission). He still had his location services on when he went to the new relationship... .said he didn’t want to stop sharing his life with me.

So no it’s hard to trust him now because I’m so confused. I think knowing about BPD and his attachment helps me to justify his behavior, but it would take a lot to regain trust. Problem is I don’t have a say in it right now. I want to reach out and he’s always been happier when I’m communicatimg, but o feel like it’s on him to reach out as I’m not the one who left.

Thank you for all the input. Why do you think I was never devalued or painted black?

If you haven't been asked to not contact him, why not do it? I understand the position of wanting him to do it, but he may be dealing with so much emotional fall-out and fear that he cannot bring himself to do it. Do you feel that it will make you appear weak or something along those lines?

Also, it's far easier to repair the damage when there is communication.

As for the splitting black; none of us can truly know what goes through the mind of another, but it's easy to theorize that it's a projection onto you so that he does not have to deal with his own emotions.

Thank you, Melli - yes I do feel like I’m weak if I reach out. Why try for something with someone who clearly doesn’t choose me right now? I know I can’t rely on what works with a rational person.

As an update, he called this week and sent a text about a conversation he had with his sister and how I’m good for him. I think he is still in and out with that girl but when I ask him about her, he says she breaks up with him every 4 days, he doesn’t love her and is only with her because she is 8 years younger. It’s really strange. The contradictions- it’s just so hard to tell what he really wants, thinks and feels.

When I was going through this with my x, I found it best to just ignore that she was with the new guy. I just went ahead with my life. As long as she wanted to be with him, she was free to do so. She's an adult after all. But, she couldn't have both. She tried for a while. But, in the end, he was gone.

While she was making that choice however, I remained friendly with her. She tried, very hard I might add, to have the benefits of me while she was dating him. The good people here helped me see how bad of a plan that was.

By focusing on myself, making myself emotionally stronger, and thus more attractive, I was able to regain her attention from him. Do you think that something like that might work for you?

Yes! I do think that is something that will work but I just don’t know how to do it. I’ve been getting stronger just being on my own but I don’t know how to attract his attention again.

I’m confident that he loves me, thinks I’m good for him, and is attracted to me. I am also friendly with him, but I feel like he might view me as a crutch, or safety net. This is why I try not to contact him often. I also think that his confidence is so low that he will stay with the girl as long no as she keeps breaking up with him. He is chasing her to feel worthy of love and “winning” someone “young”, but it can go on forever. This is how he explained what he felt for his wife... .chasing her to feel worthy of love.

I do talk with his sister. She tells me he has always said nice things about me and that I’m “special”. It just doesn’t do any good if he chooses someone else.

This has been helpful - thank you for chatting with me! Do you know in the end how you were able to regain her attention?

I stopped chasing, I became interesting, other women became interested in me and became a prize for her to win. Sound familiar?

This also may sound familiar: When I was chasing her, she was certain that she could do anything and I would still be there waiting for her. I was her safety net and doormat.

Doormats are unattractive though, and no one respects a doormat. So, to get her to start respecting me again, I had to stop being a doormat.

She feared losing me; her safety net. I was no longer at her beck and call. I was no longer needy and clingy, so she couldn't get away with as much.

I stopped accepting her bad behavior and complying with her demands.

In short, I change the entire dynamic of our relationship and took control back over my own life.

Hmm - this does all sound very familiar. How did you get it from happening over and over? He has such low self esteem.

Oh - and do you mind if I ask how much time elapsed from breakup until you were back together?

I agree with Meili on the being a doormat being unattractive. I think that is one of the qualities that my ex liked most about me. I was a confident person most of my life but that started to change toward the end of our marriage. I was still struggling to find that confidence for a year to a year and a half after separating. After I was able to detach more, didn't come running when she needed something and found my mojo, she started to try and reconnect.

Nwish, like you, my ex is with someone else and I just couldn't see how she could justify wanting me while not leaving him. When she tries to talk about us getting back together (4 times this year), I tell her that I won't even discuss it as long as she is with another man. I'm not interested in getting back together though. Nothing is impossible but my desire to re-enter a relationship with her is pretty close to zero.

I looked at my role in everything and changed my behaviors. We have to stop taking part in the drama. If we don't, we feed it. We make everything worse rather than better.

I felt that I could save her from herself. It's actually a very common thing around here. Most of us are "fixers." We want to help the person develop a healthy self-esteem, and we think that if we just give a little more of ourselves, and show them just a little more just how much we love them, that they will finally get it and everything will magically be better.

That's not what happens though. We give and give and give until we are enmeshed. We lose ourselves. Our self-esteem gets destroyed in the process because no matter how hard we try, we cannot "fix" their problems. It is far more productive to stop trying sooner than later.

It took me many months get these concepts through my head, but after I stopped, things started to get better for me almost instantly. Once that started to happen, within 60 days she was open to talking to me again and the idea of reconciliation.

It is by no means easy. But is possible to turn these things around. I know that it's counter-intuitive, but your focus really must be on yourself and changing your behaviors. You cannot change the other person, but you can lead by example.

Thank you both so much for your feedback. I really am working on me and I’m not chasing. I do still go over when he calls but usually under the impressIon that he’s out of the relationship and sober. Then I get there and discover that I never really know what’s going on. I’m going to stop that. I’ve become more assertive at least.

I talked to his sister tonight and she agrees that he has jumped into the same unhealthy dynamic as his previous relationships. Constant arguing and chasing, but no real love. I just don’t understand why he would pursue another relationship when we were finally where we wanted to be and went through so much to get there. Days before the breakup he was talking about blending families and sending me song lyrics. It’s just baffling.

Now, I think it’s the rejection that is hard to deal with. Like he chose this pretty, young person who has so much baggage. This is what he likes? He says no but keeps going!

One of the things about pwBPD is that they have intense fears of abandonment and enmeshment. When they start to feel very close and intimate with someone, they get scared. They feel like it is a dangerous position for them to be in because the non could abandon them at any moment. If we try to see it through their eyes, devoid of any of the facts as we know them, it is far easier to see and understand. This level of empathy is exactly what is needed.

For us, it is easy to see the love that we give, our commitment to the relationship, and the dedication that we have to our partners. For them, the facts are clouded by their intense emotions and thus quite different.

Yes - I feel like he loves me and is connected to me and that was/is uncomfortable, but he was happy. This dynamic with his new relationship is comfortable (push, pull, no love, never bonding), but he’s very unhappy.

Is there anything I can do? He kind of knows but I’m not sure he knows enough to break it. There’s nothing I can say or do, is there? Other than move on... .
He doesn’t know why he’s torn.

People gravitate toward what is familiar and comfortable. It sounds like that is what he is doing.

You should only move on when you are ready to move on. I know how trite it is when I tell someone this, but it very true, as long as you have hope, there is hope.

What can you do? You can make yourself the more attractive option. You can use the time while he figures things out for himself for your benefit. I learned to think of all of this as a gift from my x. She gave me room to breath and time to learn. She was a catalyst for my growth. When you stop fighting the situation, change your perspective, and accept things for what they are everything changes. What is currently a negative can become a positive.

Thank you, Melli!
It’s nice to hear someone tell me to not give up hope. Others do not understand why I would even want hope at this point, but I try to go day by day.

Oh - and so I guess you understand how hard it is to resist going over there when he calls. There is just something in me that has so much to say and if I decline going over it feels like a missed opportunity to say things that are on my mind.

This sounds so familiar. It was the same way like with my ex. She was very expressive about it and many times that we made plans to spend the night,  she would sabotage it to them blame me for it. I think is a trait. Welcome to the boards. Hope you find some answers here.

Thank you, Missguided!

Melli, how did you keep from comparing yourself to the new guy she was with?

Yes, I know how hard it is to resist the urge to go running when called. Early on, I longed just to hear from her. I would tolerate hours of being berated just so that I could listen to her voice. It was a very unhealthy time for me.

I'll admit that I compared myself to him at first. I distinctly remember thinking that he was better than me because he could provide her with a level of excitement that I couldn't. This was very out of character for me. I learned long ago that we cannot compare one person to another. We are all different, unique, and special in our own ways. My normal position was that it wasn't that another was better for me, but rather better than me for someone. All those logical thoughts went out the window.

I got into counseling. My therapist had me post affirmations on my bathroom mirror so that I had to look at them each morning. I thought it was a silly idea. What good could that possibly do? A lot of good.

We start to devalue ourselves and have a low self-esteem because someone (or people) tell us over and over again that we should think that way. Soon we start to believe it. The affirmations have the same effect. We reaffirm ourselves every day to counter the negative things that we've been told.

It wasn't really beneficial at first, but somewhere along the way, it occurred to me that I was giving more weight to her opinion than I was to my own. I had to ask myself why what she said was more important than what I believed?

Thank you! I did start to feel really low for a while. I took your advice Melli and it did feel good!

Well, here’s an update... .

We had a nice conversation through text and then he called and we continued to talk about how he’s doing and his new relationship and how he isn’t happy. I know he’s still having problems letting her go bc she plays games and breaks up with him for no reason every 4 days or so and he’s so frustrated. I think he knows he doesn’t love her in more than a superficial way but his confidence is so low he keeps trying to prove himself. He told me how much of a true friend (and more than a friend) I am to him.

He asked if I could come over so he could hold me and I finally told him no. It was so hard. We talked a little more and he said he would leave the door open and that he was happiest with me. I still (very friendly) said no, it’s not fair to me. He told me goodnight and he loved me.

 I was shocked the next morning when he started texting about my day. He hasn’t done that since we broke up. Now, he either feels badly about only calling when he has a problem, or he truly wanted to talk. I gained a little self respect for sure. He needs to know that I can’t just be his comfort. I just don’t think he will ever make a decision to leave this person because the drama dynamic is what he likes (even tho he says no) and he can’t “win” her because she keeps pulling the rug out. I hope this makes sense.

I plan to start another post. I want to know if anyone has experienced a loved one knowing they messed up, wanting to reconcile, but not knowing how, or feeling too shameful, or fear rejection. I shouldn’t be in charge of making the move. It’s about what he wants at this point. I’m just not sure he can muster up the motivation to try to get me back. Maybe I’m in denial but I see signs from him.

I'm glad that it felt good and that you regained a bit of your self-respect!

I also experienced something else that you are having to deal with; my x would complain to me about her new relationship. I allowed it to happen because I wanted to show her that I was still there for her, that she could rely on me, and that I loved her that much.

What I actually showed her was that she could have the best of both worlds. She got the part of me that she needed at that moment and get the rest from the other guy. People around here pointed out that she had no reason to come back to me because she already had me.

Are you giving him any reason to come back to you?

I hope now that I’m getting myself in order thanks to you all. Giving him a reason to think I won’t just be there whenever. How do I do it? I declined staying over with him. What else? So I never reach out? Do I just decline talking about his relationship? I feel like his confidence is so low he wont reach out thinking I’m done with him.

I put limits on what I'd talk to my x about and when I would talk to her. We were no longer in an intimate relationship, so we needed to stop acting as if we were.

The two of you are in the same situation. Isn't the new woman now the one responsible for being his emotional cheerleader?

Yes - he was her emotional responsibility. It’s strange though because he texts me everyday now. I really do think they have been broken up for a while, but he still uses her breaking up with him to get me to feel bad and come over. Is that possible? Seems counterproductive! He texted saying he is holding his ground and not going back to her. He started texting daily once I said I wouldn’t come over one night. Now it seems he is trying to get back into the activities we used to do together.

Is it possible he has so much shame that he can’t just say he made a mistake and wants it to work? He had mentioned that breaking up with me was “unintentional”... .(whatever that means). Or maybe he’s taking it slow, waiting for me to jump in? I don’t know. I have to protect myself emotionally though. You have no idea how badly I want to stay over there tonight! Well, maybe you do.

Maybe he sees me as a friend, but he doesn’t text his friends (actually doesn’t have any true friends). This is so frustrating. I don’t want him to be with me because I’m “good for him”. He’s never strayed from telling me how much he loves me... .it’s just the actions. I’ll have to be patient I guess.

I appreciate all of this feedback so much. It’s rrally helped! Thank you all and have a great holiday!

there are few silver bullets in these scenarios. the best general advice is to "make yourself attractive" so to speak. and what that really means is to work on becoming the best possible version of yourself. to be the confident, strong, attractive person he fell for to begin with. to build up your life independent of him. and to arm yourself with knowledge in the meantime.

Meili asks an important question when he asks if youre giving him any reason to come back to you. i dont know that its about specific moves (reach out, dont reach out) as much as how you carry yourself, and i do agree that someone carrying themselves with high regard will protect themselves emotionally. youre showing strength, and youre seeing the results. keep it up  |iiii

Thank you, Once Removed!

Ever since the initial breakup he would call me crying from time to time that he wanted things the way they were, and he would ask me to come over. He would tell me and make sure I knew he loved me. When his new relationship finally broke for good, he definitely started talking to me as I was in his life again. Asking to hang out and asking about everyday things. After a few days I was guarded and didn’t let on that I wanted anything more than a friendship. He called me to come over and that’s when I declined and he hinted about us being together and how it was unintentional when he left.

I’m not sure if he got invalidated along the way bc I didn’t run over. I also told him I wished our timing was better. Then I said a few other things that might have come across as me being done with anything more than a friendship. Well, the last time I saw him is when he said he doesn’t have romantic feelings and we could never be because he will never be happy and I shouldn’t wait for him. The past few times o have been there he was all over me (I declined sex bc he was in another rs) and now he just stopped and said he only loves me as a friend and doesn’t want to hurt me. He is so happy to hear from me though.

So I don’t know if he did this to protect himself or what. All indications before that were that he wanted me back. My divorce isn’t final however. I’m stuck for what to do at this point. He always asked why I didn’t get upset or bitter about him leaving and being with someone else. Is he just looking for me to want him? So confusing.

frankly, he doesnt know what he wants, and hes telling you that, and his actions are, and have been indicating that. it may flip on a dime tomorrow.

bottom line, you cant get caught up or confused by his confusion, or it will only drag you down.

it is something of a waiting game, but dont think in terms of putting your life on hold for him.

think in terms of Radical Acceptance (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0) and making the best of a less than good situation that will hopefully change.

once removed is spot on about things taking time and you'll serve yourself best by not getting caught up in his confusion. That is something that many of us have/had to learn. It is one of the best things that we can do to protect ourselves.

It's been a few days, where are things at for the two of you?

Thanks, Once Removed, for the advice and Melli for catching up with me.

I haven’t reached out since Christmas when I sent him some information and he was really appreciative (kind of over dramatic, over the top appreciative). I’m getting such mixed signals that I just don’t want to reach out and be there for everything, but on the other hand I know he likes when I reach out and that’s when I usually get the most communication... .after I reach out, even if for something lite. Otherwise, I might not hear from him until he is desperate. Now that he is single his desperation will come in another form I believe.

I feel like he does/says things to pull me close but doesn’t want to be rejected so then counters them with a push. I could be wrong but I feel like he’s being careful instead of just honest.

Since he’s impulsive and not a great planner, for now I’m just taking it as his confusion and not reaching out. I don’t like it but I think it’s best. I will say that he’s still never mad, angry or even indifferent. So maybe it means he really does just view me as his only friend, or I just don’t mean enough to trigger those emotions. Who knows

Who knows is correct. No one knows what is going on in the mind of another and putting too much thought into it is a waste of time and energy.

They push/pull (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=99725.msg984616#msg984616) dynamic is common. You need to be careful that you don't play a part in that dysfunctional dance. In other words, don't let his actions and confusions become a motivator for you choices.

I had a brief text conversation with him this morning. It does seem like he’s just going about his life like he doesn’t need me in it... .even though he wanted my attention and affection so much just weeks ago. And while together (even at breakup time) he was so worried I would leave and always wanting to see me. I just don’t get how he can be single now and just view me as a friend. He’s still yet to devalue or block me but the intensity of his feelings change for sure.

Focusing on what he may or may not be feeling and/or doing won't do you much good. At best, it's just a presumption. In fact, letting go of those types of thought processes is exactly what you must do to salvage a real relationship. You have to allow him to be himself and you to be yourself; to differentiate yourself from him.

The fact that you are still in communication with him is good. It gives you a place to work from. It allows you to show him consistency in words and actions. This becomes very important in maintaining a relationship with a pwBPD. It allows them to have some semblance of safety in knowing that you aren't likely to abandon or become enmeshed.

The way you explained this has probably given me the clearest picture yet... .
Thank you.

The problem I’m having with the sporadic contact is this... .

I have all these things I want to say and feelings I want him to know, or questions about what happened and why. So when he wants to talk about it, I listen. Then I almost always go home wondering why I didn’t respond to this, or that, or why I didn’t mention this or that. I have so much to say and I’ve had these chances and then I don’t say anything or don’t respond to what he’s saying the way I really want to. So I’m always looking for another opportunity to see him so I can let him know this stuff, when In  reality it probably doesn’t matter. The conversation is thrown for a loop most of the time anyway.

So trying to text or email things at the beginning was what I did, and used to calm him down. I think at this point, these exact things are what you are saying NOT to do right now... .it’s like limbo. Focusing on just me is hard bc I’m so sad.

What sort of things would you want to tell him? Can you show him those things without actually using the words?

We've all heard the old cliches that love is a verb and actions speak louder than words. The reason that they are cliches is because they are true. Saying "I love you" is quite different from showing love.

That being said, meet him on his level. If he wants to talk about the relationship, then talk to him about it. If he tells you that he loves and misses you, then let him know that you love and miss him as well. The point is to not chase or push. Go on the journey together without overwhelming.

I completely understand the rational thought process of wanting to talk about what happened in hopes of preventing it from happening in the future. That makes perfect sense in 'normal' situations. But, when a person is emotionally dysregulated, all that goes right out the window. pwBPD experience very intense emotions very quickly. This means that their level of emotional arousal is different from that of a non. So, all of the rational thoughts that are conveyed when the pwBPD is not dysregulated can go away when they are. That's why we stress the importance of not allowing things to escalate so much.

One trick that I learned to deal with the sadness was to look at the end of my relationship with my x as a gift. That it was it really was. It was an opportunity for me to learn and grow and to give our relationship the best chance of surviving. Yes, I missed talking to her and having her around. But, I used those feelings to give me the strength to do what was necessary to ensure that things would not go back to the way that they were. Had I just jumped back into a relationship with her at light speed, like had happened so many times in the past, it would have just been a repeat. I didn't want that.

Does that make sense?

Thanks, Melli - yes it definitely makes sense. I do often think that this had to happen (the breakup and events after) in order for us to have a chance. If it continued we could have ended up in a marriage or LTR and not have known enough to make it. This thought process does make me feel at ease often. I haven’t pushed at all. I respond to him when he reaches out and I do show him love with my actions.

 I still worry that sometimes my lack of pushing or chasing or showing concern for our relationship is taken by him as me not caring or wanting more. I’m trying to take your advice and reverse these mindsets. It’s just so odd that we have all this time and are both single and like each other, yet don’t really speak daily. I’m surprised that he doesn’t want me over there, but then again that’s a good thing as it would only be for comfort. I think him telling me he loves me as a friend has my brain overworking again.

Keep in mind that pwBPD fear rejection and abandonment. Your defining and maintaining a boundary about not being used may have been seen as rejection by him. What you may be witnessing is a form of what we call Extinction Bursts (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.msg847610#msg847610). Give him some time to self-soothe and continue to be consistent in words and actions. He is taking his journey, you are taking yours.

Thank you. This is new information (extinction). I have felt that my boundary and stating that certain things was taken by him as rejection. I didn’t want to be in denial about it, but it did seem like he pushed me away again when he thought I was done or only willing to be friends.

For whatever is worth, he's probably just as confused about what is happening as you are. This is where time and consistency in words and actions becomes important.

I agree, Melli - it’s hard to be consistent in my actions and words  without consistent communication though. I have a close friend (female though) who is recovering from BPD. She told me how long it took and how much work and reflection. She said it’s a long journey.

She’s advised me to reach out to him and tell him all the things I want to tell him about our relationship dynamic and how I see it and what I want from it. She said just to do it without blame or invalidating him. What do you think about this? She thinks it might help him understand some things too. ? Any thoughts?

i think a lot of times when someone gives advice, they offer it through a lens of what they would want to hear or see happen if they were in that situation.

youre the one in the situation. what would your goal be, and what do you think the result would be?

I agree with once removed in that people often give advice based on what they would like to receive in that situation.

I am not sure that I understand what you mean about being consistent being hard when there is not consistent communication. If the communication that you do have is consistent, then it will show.

I agree with your friend in that you should not place blame or be invalidating. The reality is that we each play a role (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287068.msg12704925#msg12704925) in our relationships. We are just as responsible for the dynamics as the other person. We cannot blame them for our choices and actions.

Also, it is never our place to say that another person's feelings or perspective are invalid. A lot of us around here tend to get caught up in debating facts and words used when dealing with our pwBPD. We don't understand or forget that we all process information through our own filters. We want to debate whether or not we took the trash out on Tues night or Wed night when pwBPD is upset because they don't feel important or that they are ignored because they told us that it was important to them that the trash was out by Thur morning and it wasn't out before they left for work on Wed and they are upset. When the trash was actually taken out doesn't really matter. They fact that our pwBPD is upset and feels unimportant does.

Should you tell him how you feel? You know him and the discussions that the two of you have, we don't. If he open the door for you to tell him that you miss him, then I would. The idea is to not chase or push. You and your feelings are important also though. They should not be neglected or ignored.

When we talk about not chasing or pushing, we are really talking about not putting forth more effort in the relationship than the other person is.

Thank you Once Removed and Meili... .

I guess I’m still having a problem making a clear distinction between reaching out, focusing on me, and chasing. I don’t beg or text questions or ask him to come back. I usually only talk with him when he is emotional and reaches out. This is when I get to state my feelings and ask questions, but I never seem to be content with how I respond and I feel like I don’t talk about or ask about the things I really want to know... .so then when those emotional periods slow down (and might be really slow now that he’s done with his distraction r/s), then we really don’t talk much unless he gets desperate. I’ll occasionally ask him how something specific is going (moving, his son, etc), or I’ll just say “hi”. He always responds and it seems to get him in the mood to talk again.

So when I reach out I take that as “not focusing on me” in a way... .like he thinks I’m sitting around thinking about him. So that’s why I mentioned inconsistent communication. I just never know when I’ll hear from him if I don’t reach out. But I usually hear from him at some point.

Like for me just to let him know that I do love him and am interested in saving what we had. That seems like me being needy or pushy. Maybe I’m just thinking too much.

My position is that if you're the one always initiating contact, putting in all (or most) of the effort, and the one driving things; that would fall under the heading of chasing.

I find nothing wrong with reaching out like you would with any friend, and being bright, shiny, and interesting. That's how relationships develop and progress.

So are these possible extinction bursts I might be witnessing on my end, or could his form of an extinction burst be his withdrawing of romantic feelings and not reaching out as much?
 

Extinction bursts typically result from not being able to get us to move one of our boundaries. Some have likened extinction bursts to a toddler throwing a tantrum when not getting his/her way.

The problem is that BPD is a complex disorder. This is why we discourage people from trying to guess what is happening in the mind of their pwBPD. No one can ever know what is going through another person's mind, much less someone with such complicated thought processes.

It has been my experience that people want to understand what the other person is thinking in hopes of making the best guesses at how to respond to the situation. That is an exercise in futility and keeps the focus on the pwBPD instead of where it needs to be, on the non. That being said, it is a very good idea to learn about the disorder and how it effects the pwBPD. This is because it helps us decide how we want to respond.

There is a distinction between reacting (the result of the guessing) and responding (the result of the understanding). Reacting puts the control in the hands of the other person whereas responding keeps us in control of our own lives. We always want to respond and not react, no matter the situation.

You might find The 3 Levels of Emotions found in Borderline Personality (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.msg579565#msg579565) an interesting read. It discusses, in greater detail, the different levels of emotions and how the pwBPD generally responds to situations given their particular emotional level.

Yes - it is true that I am trying to guess what he’s thinking to understand my best action. I understand what you mean about the big picture and focusing on me and the here and now. I’m getting there - thanks for sticking with me!