BPDFamily.com

I don't know if I've posted my whole story here but anyway here it is (sorry if it's a bit long):

She worked with me for two years before I asked her out (my, now ex) it took me a while to gather up the courage. There was something "different" about her that I couldn't quite figure out. She didny seem to care much about things and she also had what she calls resting ___ face. I dont know why but this made me attracted to her even more.

I knew she was single as she broke up with another guy we used to work with (same company) that lasted over a year. Right before I asked her out we were all out on someone else's leaving party and i could see the guy (her ex begging her outside) little did I know that that would be me in a year's time.

Anyway, for the first few months everything was amazing. I mean, the sex, the excitement, I fell in love with her in a matter of weeks. We were together pretty much all of our spare time and I practically moved into her mum's house with her after a month or so... .

There were warning signs that i should of noticed before three months in (when the "honeymoon period kind of ended) like her talking about all of her previous ex's, which kind of made me insecure. She would plan to go out with me and arrive an hour later or cause arguments over nothing and not talk to me for days. Anyway three months in, it was my brothers birthday and for the first time I went drinking with her, she was flirting with the barman and ended up punching me in the face outside, which then ended up in me apparently hitting her (I will never know if I did or didn't but she claims I did) this was the first time she tried breaking up with me.

I should of walked at that point but for some reason I begged her back, apologised for hitting her and a carried on like normal. Little did I know a would now break up and make up every other week or every time she made a mountain out of a mole hill.

She started looking in my phone, although I checked hers too. She told me her ex boyfriend raped her and abused her and was a narcissist and that she still had flashbacks over it all. This as 6 years ago but still he had been contacting her over the years and apparently even broke in to the house to move furniture around to "___ with her head".

Everything was paranoia, everything I did was questioned. I picked her up one night after she had been out drinking with friends and due to anxiety couldn't quite perform, well that was it all hell broke loose, "you're sleeping around, you're ___ing other girls".

I started questioning my self, but still stayed with her on and off for a year and 4 months. I got a tattoo, she asked if it was to cover up love bites, I lost my phone she said I was lying. I was practically jumping through hoops until one day she dumped me and just completely ghosted me after our FB relationship status was removed (I did not do it) she said I was clearly hiding something and just cut off all contact in the space of one day.

Two or three months later after begging her, showing up at her work, depressed and feeling like ___ still not knowing what was going on, she got back with me after agreeing to meet me a few times. She said she was moving 100 miles away to be with her auntie who has cancer. I told her I loved her and would wait for her if i could see her every other week at least. We would meet up and do things like camping, sleep in our cars etc just to be together but during this time she got more and more paranoid thinking I was looking at other girls who were clearly uglier and less attractive than she was. But rather than ask me she would just insist I was and i couldn't convince her otherwise because she had already made up her mind.

Four months later she came back to be with me, she said. I don't think it was to be with me but I NEVER really questioned it I was just happy that I could be close to her like before.

Things went ok for a few more months but during this time I felt like she was less interested in me than before, she used to ask me if i was bored of her etc and refuse to talk about problems in the relationship instead discussing it with her friends and going to sleep without even messaging me back.

Any time i needed her she was not there and it would always be thrown in my face. I was almost beaten to death a couple of years before I met her which I told her about while we were working together and even then when I came face to face with the main person who did it, she simply accused me of other things and asked me where I had been, telling me to get the ___ out of her house.

This brings me to now, last month she seemed a bit distant and wouldn't answer when i called always seemed busy and not emotionally there. I had just taken another job and was doing a lot of hours which she didn't believe, she turned up at my work and found out i was telling her the truth about being there but then the next day when we went for dinner (my idea and I paid) she accuses me of looking at another girl in another table and said I can't do this anymore.

She dumped my clothes outside of my house where the rubbish gets put rather than hand it to me and hasn't really spoken to me in over a month despite just reading my messages and not replying. I haven't seen or spoke to her apart from one or two messages where she said I can't be with you, I love you but i don't trust you.

I really don't know what to make of this. She won't agree to meet me or even talk to me and all of this after we made plans to spend Christmas together and do our shopping together.

Sorry it's a bit long winded but I don't know where i am mentally right now. That is not even the full story but to tell you that I would be here all day.

Despite everything that she has put me through as well, all of the silent treatment, accusations etc I still can't stop loving her and it's destroying me that she won't just be with me.

The first time she seemed to want nothing more to do with me was a complete shock as well because the day before we were planning our future (she talked about kids and marriage etc). I had to see a psychiatrist. This was how I found out she may have BPD as I told the psychiatrist everything that has happened and about her childhood (no Dad, abused by relatives, emotionally absent mother)

But this time it seems like she really doesn't care about me anymore so I am not sure if she will ever return it was just a conplete shock especially after telling me she loved me the day before.

I have tried to initiate contact for the last month but so far she's pretty much ignored everything. She cannot seem to see any of the good like I can and I'm being treated like Satan almost like I did something to deserve to be dropped on my head again.

I don't even think she gives me a second thought now.

Anyway my question is: is it likely that is the end of it now?

give it time.
Sounds volatile.
Info she related about her ex raping her ?
I never want to doubt a woman that relays that info, but... .
It appears as a common symptom amongst pwBPD.
My exBPD claimed similar at age 15 from one of her mother's boyfriend.
Give it time. Stay away for awhile.
Who knows what can happen. But don't plead or beg. Trust me that makes it worse.

I have kind of begged her so far (it's been a month)

Can I still repair the damage I have done ?

I think so.  Just let her miss you.

No matter what you do or don't do, they will come back if they want to.

My ex BPD wife seemed to have an internal radar knowing exactly when I was moving on. Then she would want to work it out.

Bro
Repair? Why?
I know exactly the feeling. After 6 mos since my breakup and I still think of having an adult conversation with her. Yet, when she broke up with me she acted like a child.
For the last 5 months I've been on this form and I guess there's a pattern of the PwBPD not providing closure like an adult
I know the feeling of the idealized praise she gave you at the beginning. When was the last time you had a great moment with her (not sex)?
Good luck but stay strong and allow time.

She's acting so uninterested it's like I never existed in the first place. Doesn't seem that bothered about me to be honest and didn't even reply when I said merry Christmas.

We have a lot of good memories but she only seems to remember the bad ones.

What are the chances of her suddenly realising what we had kt should i just walk away.

It's been a month.

I'm in a very similar position like you, its been a month and half, honestly you need to start seeing the negatives in the relationship, if you see the positives or anything that reminds you of her, it gets very difficult to start the healing process. I have thrown away my engagement ring, I deleted all of our photos (which was extremely difficult as I went through them one last time) What i'm trying to say is, try getting rid of everything that reminds you of her. It really isn't worth being so naive thinking that she might come back one day. You need to realize you're more important than anything else in this world and after you should be your blood (family). I gave this girl everything I had, I left my family, abandoned all of my female friends (cause she got jealous and wouldn't stop crying), I left my job to go see her cause she threatened suicide, I abandoned my future in another country just so I could stay with her. Honestly its not worth the price you have to pay for your own happiness. You are the best thing in the world and you have to know that noone else can make you happy. Get busy hanging out with friends, love your family, join a gym and channel your anger/sadness into something positive. Its extremely difficult and painful but you must move on first and if you still believe you can love this girl then go ahead there is nothing that can stop fate. But for now you have to realize no matter how much you plead/beg she won't change her mind, it has to be her own idea. Trust me when she sees you moving on she'll jump back into your life and ruin it again. I already experienced this again so its really upto you if you want her back in your life again.

She hasn't even wished me a merry Christmas I mean, that's what I get for all the time I spent trying to please her. What the ___?

I am going out of my mind.

Btw this is in the wrong section as we have broken up she said "I can't do this anymore I love you but i can't be with someone that I can't trust"

Can't help but thinking that excuse was a lie because she has shown no interest in me at all for about a month and I'm going out of my mind.

Whether it's in the wrong section of the forum depends on whether or not you have given up on the idea of salvaging the relationship. I realize how trite this sounds, but as long as you have hope, then hope exists.

Where are you on things?

Well it's been about a month and a half since she ended it and she hasn't really initiated anything contact wise it's always been me. I finally got her to agree to meet up with me for a coffee but when the day finally came she said can we rearrange it, she doesn't feel well.

She's acting pretty uninterested since she dumped me and hasn't really hinted on us ever getting back togdther because she "can't be with someone she doesn't trust."

Every time I have asked if there was anyone else she has said no, and basically says she isn't looking for that right now but I don't know whether to believe that or not.

At this point I kind of feel like she doesn't really give a ___ about me and it's weird because the day because she dumped me she was "in love with me". I do love her still and would like to see her again but she isn't making it easy and the showing no interest all of a sudden is really starting to get to me.

What should i do if i want her back at this stage or is it too late? I miss her so much but she doesn't seem that interested and doesn't seem to be that fussed whether she sees me again, ever.

Does it seem like I have been discarded ?

Should i leave it at that ?

She hasn't really initiated ckntact maybe she doesn't remember all of the good times we had like I do ?

a lot of the advice youve received is spot on.

pursuing her is pushing her away. i can understand wanting to show your love, and hoping that she will see the light. if thats going to happen, its something shes going to have to do on her own, in her own time.

you dont have a lot of cards to play other than to give her some space (this could take a month or two or three), to learn the tools and lessons to the right of the board, and to get grounded and in a place where, if she comes back, youre prepared to treat it as a completely new relationship with a very different game plan.

those arent small moves, and there is hope for them, its just going to likely take some time. can you do that?

can you tell us the nature of the last contact, and what was said? also, are the two of you friends on social media?

I removed her from Facebook (to save myself having to see updates which might piss me off)

She hasn't removed me from Whatsapp for some reason and neither have I but she doesn't message me and only replies with one word answers when I message her.

We have only had two phone conversations in the month and a half since she walked off on me and they weren't positive in regards to her wanting to get back together with me.

If I call her she declines it, if I message her she leaves it for hours and hours before replying.

i totally get your position.

All i can share is be strong, know yourself, and do not be swayed by the other person, or good meaning griends and family.  Only i know what is going on.

I read on here that us nons are the " keepers of hope"... .and as such, that can really take something.  I am going thru this now  w my pwBPD.  We have a 10 yr history, living together, w my kid, then his kids, ups /downs, he had 4 surgeries, financial issues, intimacy issues, you name it, we lived thru it.

We are now separated, he says wants to be friends, and i see that there is more, in his demeanor and physical being. getting down to the very core of this relationship, there is a lot of comraderie, understanding, and affinity.  I am not willing to toss that out.


 We nons have to become experts in humanity and being generous and loving.  It is a high calling, and you can accept or decline at any time!

For me, i am leaving the way open.

  I know who he is, who we are.  let each day strengthen you.  i take it one day at a time, there is NOTHING i have to resolve today.just realizing this, takes the pressure off... .  all of this is from my perspective, you can take what you like and leave the rest.

Blessings, j

Thing is, is there any hope she does still give a crap about me after a month and a half of not seeing me?

And if she was or is seeing someone else why would she not tell me that?

Her lack of interest and not reaching out is really frustrating me. The good times we shared are not even in her mind at all.

Do I just go full no contact and delete her from everything and move on?

I do want her back but shes showing no signs of interest.

ive been in a similar position. youre in the thick of it. try to see the bigger picture from an outside perspective here, because if you want to have hope, its going to take a big perspective change, and a new approach.


she hasnt had much opportunity to, Etuhu. thats the opportunity you need to give her now. being pursued after a breakup tends to push anyone away, they want distance (shes made that clear) and they just want to be away from it. thats not personal between her and you, thats pretty normal. if you can give her that opportunity, something might shift. she will be pleasantly surprised that you backed off. after a while, she may wonder whats up, how youre doing, her perspective may shift. thats your best bet.


simply, because its not an appropriate conversation to have with someone youve recently broken up with. it can make us look possessive and clingy. if you had broken up with her, would you want to deal with those questions?


you can do that. it wouldnt lend itself to getting her back, though. i would try to see it more in terms of ending the pursuit, taking some space, and getting back to yourself, getting grounded. no big dramatic moves, just get back to your life, and rebuild yourself. youve spent that month and a half focusing on her, which is understandable (ive been there), but its not the ideal healthy space you want to operate in. if she came back tomorrow, it would crash and burn. when and if she comes back, you want to be seen as inviting, strong, attractive; the confident, upbeat guy she fell for in the first place.

its going to take time Etuhu, and virtually all of the work to be done will involve getting out of the day to day focus on her, and focusing on yourself.

can you do that?

From what i see, its about you, not them.

Who are you going to be.?

we are the leaders, and that is hard to get, because we are at the effect of their behavior... .we can get enmeshed and lose our power or unwittingly, give our power over... .breathe.  take a big breath.

any way you slice it, it is up to you.

In the face of ... . who are you. ?

Keep reading these boards.  There is so much good info and great support.

bless you, j

So what do I do: stop messaging her and just get on with it?

Won't she just date other guys then ? (Probably is already, idk)

Is the fact that she isn't messaging me not like, worrying from my side if I'm ever gonna get her back ?

has what youve been doing worked?

before we can make things better, we have to stop making them worse.

If she was seeing someone else would she not just rub my face in it ? I'm pretty sure she must be but she says she isnt. What is the purpose of lying about that I mean what do you gain out of it?

I will take your advice and back off because I don't have any kther choice anyway I am just struggling to see how she doesn't feel guilty about what she's done to me at all (especially IF she is seeing someone else)

The main reason I think she is is because she never goes online anymkre even when shes at home and she is usually on facebook a lot... .

How do I make her give a ___ again?

Any other advice ?

I know how you feel, its like we never mattered at all. I read her blog recently which I shouldnt have, I was doing so well moving on. Just try to keep your self busy. When you realize its not your fault, its not even their fault but actually the illness you can come out of the state that youre in. Stay strong buddy

Etuhu, you are asking a lot of questions about what she might be thinking or doing. Early, after the breakup, it's hard to not ask those questions. There is so much hurt, confusion, and desperation. We want so badly to have the loving feelings that we once had. It's natural and to be expected because you are so raw.

I think that you should look at why you think that she's lying to you. There seems to be a huge lack of trust. What would happen if she came back today? Would anything change? Would the things that lead to the break up be any different? Would you trust her? If so, why don't you trust her now?

once removed and juju2 have been giving you some great advice. The very things that they are telling you are part of the answers to your questions about how to make yourself attractive to her again.

I can't believe she isnt seeing somebody because she was getting distant leading up to it then all of a sudden shows up at my work to check up on ME when she's the one at home all day not answering the phone when I call.

Next day she dumped me even though I proved her wrong and was at work. But weeks leading up to this she asked me out of nothing "are you bored of me" for no obvious reason.

Projection? Not sure.

Cheating and thinking that I would do it ? It's all been so easy for her to forget me since then she hasn't even sent me a text message to ask how I was and I'm the one trying to initiate things.

She either doesn't give a ___ about me or is seeing someone and that's what the distraction is.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that there are an infinite number of possible reasons. Maybe she's started a new hobby. Maybe she's feeling depressed and wants to be alone. Maybe she's been abducted by aliens who wear tin foil hats. There are as many possibilities as the imagination will allow. Any one is just as possible and likely as another.

But, here's the reality: It doesn't really matter why. What matters is what you choose to do with the time.

If she is seeing someone else, or she doesn't care for you at this moment, would that change how you feel or what you are going to do with yourself?

No obviously i know I have to carry on no matter how painful it is but I would like her back, I love her and think it was a stupid reason to end things with me.

What do you mean at this point in time? Is she likely to suddenly become interested in me again i don't get it?

It does feel like this is the end but I don't want it to be.

its an uphill battle Etuhu. you have to play the hand youve got. the advice youve been given will give you the best odds of that happening. doing what you have been doing will give you the results youve gotten.

Yes, your life will go on, but are you going to allow her to dictate what your actions are? That's really what I'm asking.

Whether or not she finds interest in you again is largely based on what you do.

As once removed pointed out, you have hardly given her the opportunity to miss you.

Many of us get caught up in the pain of the moment and lose sight of the bigger picture. I really did when my x and I first split. I was so frantic and focused on finding a quick fix and wanting things to be what they were in the beginning that I couldn't slow down to think about how to make things better. I had to learn a completely different way of viewing things.

Are you willing to do that?

Yes, so what do I do just stop messaging her etc ?

Oh often are you contacting her compared to her contacting you?

She hasn't really contacted me at all... .

This is why I either think she lost all interest or she is busy with someone else... .

Feels a bit strange.

If she's not contact you at all, then it's best to not contact her. That's chasing. That is unattractive and contrary to what you want to do: make yourself the most attractive option.

By attractive, we don't me physically per se; we mean emotionally and mentally attractive. Being needy and clingy is not attractive. It shows the other person that you are not emotionally strong, and being emotionally strong is very important to a pwBPD.

I know that it feels counter-intuitive. When my relationship first ended, I thought that chasing her would show her how much I loved her and how important she was to me. It had the exact opposite effect. It showed her that she could do whatever she wanted and treat me however she felt. It caused her to lose all attraction for me.

What are you afraid will happen if you stop contacting her without her responding? Are you afraid that she will forget about you? If that is the case, that puts things in the position that either she will forget about you, or she'll be annoyed by and not want anything to do with you. Which do you think gives you the best chance at salvaging the relationship?

Well, none because how am I to salvage anything if she has forgotten about me?

Is it likely she has forgotten me by now? It's been a month and a half of us not seeing each other.

One of the beautiful things about living in the digital age is that we can show people things without every having direct contact with the person. My x and I have spoken exactly once in the past year, but we can each tell you what the other is doing and who they are involved with etc. We don't even have to pay attention because people tell us. It's almost creepy now that I think about it... .

Anyway, what I was trying to get at is that there are still ways for people to know what is going on and to see improvements and changes in the other person's life.

Has she forgotten about you? None of us can say. BPD is a spectrum disorder and each individual with BPD traits falls somewhere on the spectrum. Some suffer from object permanency issues, others do not. Nearly 10 years after our divorce, my dBPDexw reached out to me. I found out that she never forgot about me. My uBPDexgf (the one I mentioned above) has not forgotten about me, but is happy never hearing from me again, but that happened after I ended things with her for non-BPD related reasons while we were working on reconciling. There was a 3 month separation between when we split and we started talking again trying to salvage things. She was involved with some other guy and I never thought that I'd be in contact with her again when we reconnected. No one can predict how things are going to play out.

I mean to forget someone in a month and a half is quite impressive, BPD or not. I must have really been a useless piece of ___.

First, I feel that I must ask why you think that she has forgotten about you? What does that mean to you?

Secondly, it will help you greatly if you take the time to learn about BPD and how it affects those with the disorder. The way that you are describing things, it is entirely possible that she is at Level II of The 3 Levels of Emotions found in Borderline Personality (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.msg579565#msg579565). At Level II, the pwBPD is frustrated with the non and that's when the angry, devaluative, and manipulative features predominate, or the pwBPD can dismiss the fears of loss by denying feelings for the non.

I mean she has forgotten the good memories of me and her and doesn't value the uniqueness we had together. Probably forgotten things like my face, body, my laugh and the good things I did for her.

What comes next regarding her feelings then? Not giving a ___ at all ?

Tell me what is best to do and what if she is seeing someone else already arghhh is there a point.

Anyone ?

I know that you are struggling and searching for answers to a lot of questions right now, but I fear that you won't find better or different answers than the ones that you have been given.

What happens next largely depends on you. You can choose to react or you can choose to respond.

To be completely frank with you, does it matter if she is seeing someone else right now? If she is, and you want to start a new relationship with her, then you are just going to have accept that as a fact and move forward from there. My uBPDexgf was seeing someone else when I decided that I wanted her back in my life and I had to learn to make myself the more attractive option. She was involved with people before me, I had to look at things that way. We were no longer together, so she was free to be involved with whomever she chose.

There are no quick fixes here Etuhu. It is going to calm, patient consistency to turn things around. There is a great deal to learn and now is the time to learn it. I was taught to look at the time that I was apart from my x as a gift. She didn't get to see my craziness as I struggled with the emotions and fighting to find the strength to make the necessary changes to go from someone that she could abuse to a stronger, healthier person.

How are you going to use your time?

How do I make myself the more attractive option when she walked away from me and dumped all my stuff like i mean nothing?

Surely she had already decided that whoever else she was possibly seeing (or going to) was already a better option than I was.

She hasn't even bothered to message me that shows how much she thinks about me after everything.

If that is what you want it to show you, then that's what you'll see.

What do you mean?

Go back and read what I wrote yesterday about other possibilities. Read the link that I provided about the 3 Levels.

No matter what anyone says, as long as you are convinced of and focused on the notion that she chose another over you, you'll be stuck in that mentality.

Even when I asked you what it mattered if she was seeing someone at this moment, why that mattered; you ignored that in favor of worrying about whether or not she is.

I don't mean to come across as harsh, just direct. Do you want to continue worrying about "what if's", or do you want to focus on what you can control?

So don't initiate any contact between me and her? I haven't for about a week and she hasn't really seemed bothered, probably happy to get rid of me.

What else do I need to do apart from the obvious ?

For starters, stop focusing on whether or not she's initiated contact. I spent three months with no contact at all with my x before things started to turn around.

If you want to make this thing work, you have to start thinking in big picture terms rather than being myopic and focusing on moment. Only looking at the here-and-now will keep you stressed and anxious. Understanding that this is a long game endeavor frees you from those emotions. That's why I keep stressing "at this moment" to you.

For now, the best things that you can do are focus on yourself, becoming emotionally stronger and healthier, doing things that are interesting, and learning healthier communication and problem-solving measures.

So, what's your plan?

I'm gonna have to wait till she reaches out to be although she has made it clear we aren't getting back together why does she still try and provoke a reaction from me ? Changing pictures on whatsapp to see if I message her?

I already know shes probably with someone else: why try and rub that in my face? The picture hasn't got anyone else in it but someone else has taken it and she looks happy. Makes me sick.

Etuhu,

lets say she contacts you tomorrow and she wants to get back together.

would you be prepared? what has changed?

i suspect it would crash and burn immediately.

reread the last five pages Etuhu. youre going in circles here. thats not a judgment, its called ruminating, and a lot of people in your shoes experience it to varying degrees.

but at some point you have to decide if you want to better your situation or if you want to start to grieve and detach. we are here to help you do the former, but its going to help you most if you can start to see the forest through the trees, if we all stop repeating ourselves, and you can get a plan going.

you may be experiencing depression and/or anxiety and its hard to get focused in that condition. have you considered visiting a doctor or a therapist?

I hear ya, Etuhu. I used to have the same issue with my x's facebook page. I learned that what people present on social media is not reality though. It's an illusion, a portrait in time used to project what we want others to see. I learned to put no stock in it at all.

What's more, I learned to use it to my advantage to convey to the world what I wanted them to see and believe was happening in my life. I used it to show the fun, exciting, new, and interesting things that I was doing. It is a great tool when you allow it to be that way.

To do that, however, I had to shift the focus off of her and onto myself. I had to accept things for what they were and decide what I wanted my life to look like and to be. My perception of things had to change.

One of the most valuable things that I've seen people around here do, and what once removed was getting at far more succinctly than I will, is to change their perception about the periods of no contact. They, myself included, stopped looking at it as a miserable, torturous experience and decided that it was a gift. We are free to experience life on our own terms rather than molding ourselves to what believe others may think or feel. We saw it as a chance to work on becoming stronger and healthier without the stress of another's involvement. We used the time to look at our own roles in our relationships and how we contributed to the problems and then began to effectuate the changes necessary to never play a part in that dynamic again.

We all did it. We are no better nor more worthy than you are. You can change your perspective as well. What are you going to decide to do?

I do appreciate the advice I am getting here I'm just confused. These people are really hard work.

I have not initiated contaxt but I know she is stalking me from time to time in Whatsapp changing photos which I am trying to not look at, why try and provoke me or hurt me more than she has already why not just delete me she obviously wants me to see these pictures, why? If she doesn't give a crap about me why try provoking me?

Remember my comment about aliens in tin foil hats back on Sept. 8? There are an infinite number of guesses to the answer to your question. It's wasted time and energy to even venture a guess.

If it will help you, I can give you one possible answer that puts you in a positive position: She hasn't let go of you completely yet. Is this true? I have no idea, nor do you. Does it change anything if you decide to think that she is changing the pics to hurt you or that she is trying to send you messages that she is still invested? If so, what changes and why?

youve gone from:

"shes not thinking about me at all - she has completely forgotten me"

to

"she is trying to provoke a reaction in me by changing her profile picture"

can you see how that isnt helping you?

I guess so... .maybe it's just me.

I don't know what to think.

She tells me she doesn't want me anymore, I try to initiate contact, she ignores me. I stop initiating contact, she changes her profile picture despite not changing it in 3 years... .

I really just want to smash my head into a brick wall.

Then, let's stop and work with this:


Why do you think that her changing her profile picture has anything to do with you?  Let's start there.

I have no idea, maybe it's not but it seems coincidental that she keeps seeming to go offline when I come online too but I mean, maybe she has changed it for the new guy, I don't know. She hasn't changed the picture in about 3 years and today she did.

I dunno, maybe he took her out somewhere nice today and that is why. *shrug*

My head really is all over the place. If she wanted to hurt me she certainly has, maybe unknowingly, mostly by pretending to (or not) not give a crap about my existence. Or maybe she genuinely has forgotten about me already, who knows. I don't know what to think.

All I know is I am still hurting like it was yesterday and I can't turn anywhere without remembering her.

this is completely understandable; thats how it was for me as well. but that is what im trying to tell you is working against you. i hardly expect you to stop hurting or being confused, far from it. im telling you its five times as hard to manage or make decisions or see the bigger picture in that state if you continue as you are.

ill give you an example: in the past, when ive been deep in grief, i wouldnt eat or sleep. it made things much, much worse. id cry endlessly and not necessarily for any reason. i learned to cut that out and treat myself better, to practice mindfulness, to focus my grief, so im a lot stronger and better able to face my grief when it happens.

thats the path we are trying to get you on, Etuhu; youll feel better, youll see things more clearly, youll have focus, youll be more decisive.

to reiterate: have you considered checking in with a doctor or therapist?

No but I am going to.

And if I did know she hadn't let me go totally I would like to have another chance with her (providing she hasn't been with anyone else, which I will never know I guess)

I would just like to know for sure that she is seeing somebody else and that will be the final nail in the coffin, I would not want her back after that.

Just so that I'm clear, you are only willing to give the relationship another chance if it is on your terms and certain conditions have been met?

Did she date, or was she intimate with anyone before you ever met her?

Yeah obviously she has been in a string of dead end relationships with people she's just walked out on and not looked back.

How do I separate myself from the others? How am I gonna be any more special to make her even gather the energy for her to write a text message? Or anything, to show that I didn't waste all that time on an empty shell that was just going to walk off and be with someone else and forget all about me?

How am I any different to the other guys? I don't think anything they did right or wrong mattered.

I just want to know what my best bet is: if I don't initiate contact, she isnt likely to ever. If I do, I look needy.

I can't seem to win here but I do love her and I miss her A LOT.

we cant know any better than you whether shes seeing someone else. you havent suggested any reason to assume she is, though.

its been about a month and a half, right? the odds that she will see someone else increase with time, thats just the way things go.

it wouldnt be the end of the world (i dont mean it wouldnt hurt you, i mean it wouldnt necessarily change your long term plan, or be a significant threat to you, if she got with someone tomorrow, it might crash and burn pretty quickly) and it wouldnt necessarily stop you from getting back with her. what we are trying to say is that "getting back with her", whether or not she sees someone else, is a long term game plan. we are probably talking about months rather than weeks. a whole lot has to change between now and then.

its not just waiting or not reaching out though that is part of it. you need to get back to the best version of yourself. thats whats going to be attractive to her. that wont happen overnight, nor should it. and as you get to that point, you need to learn more about this disorder, and you need to have a much different game plan going in. working the lessons and tools to the right of the board can really help you with that, and we can help you with any questions you have about them.

right now, reading between the lines, it sounds like you are just waiting until she gets into a relationship to grieve and be done with her. you can do that, its one plan, but its going to leave you feeling like this until it happens.


confidence. strength.


ill be as specific as i can be here.

shes going to eventually notice that you stopped reaching out. at first, she will probably not think much of it. after emotions thaw, she will notice it. she will wonder why. she will wonder whats going on with you. she might wonder if you are in a relationship. its human nature.

at that point, she may or may not send out a "feeler". it could be direct or indirect. if she doesnt do that, at that point it may be a good idea to "put yourself in front of her" so to speak... .lets cross that bridge when we get there, its a ways off.


this is your best bet. your best bet is not a guarantee. she has left a couple doors open Etuhu, and i dont mean to artificially get your hopes up, but i think its reasonably likely she will reach out in some form, i just dont think its likely to be as soon as you hope for. but its very important that when and if it comes, that you are in a stronger state and prepared for it.

When/if she does initiate contact how do I show her i have changed? She said she did not trust me and that was the reason she walked out on me (I don't know why).

What do you mean by pit myself in front of her? Obviously I know where she lives but I can't just go and knock on the door, I have made that mistake before.

remember, these things are a ways off. focus on the change itself first.


you simply be safe, warm, inviting, light, upbeat, confident. its a subtle thing. you dont "show her youve changed" in one conversation, you just leave her feeling good about it and wanting more.


i dont mean it literally. what i mean is if you havent heard from her in another month or two (i would expect it to take about that long... .ive been in your situation, and finally heard from an ex after about three months) and you are still interested, you will need to do something. what that "something" is will very much depend. it could take the form of a direct or indirect reach out.

Meili mentioned social media. are the two of you friends on facebook? i dont know much about whatsapp, is it a format in which you can post pictures or share updates on your life or just a messenger?

I removed her from Messenger but she hasn't deleted me from Whatsapp. Maybe I should not have done that as I could of posted pictures of what I've been up to but I should need to make her jealous to love me, I got her back before by doing that and it just seemed fake.

I told her I deleted her as a friend as it would be too hurtful for me to see pictures of her with someone else.

you dont need to make her jealous, or play games, youre right.

but you asked how shed see that you had changed. thats what i meant by "putting yourself in front of her"... .if you were facebook friends for example, youre just living your life and updating like anyone else.

in terms of a light reach out, something like that could be worth considering further down the road.

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