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My mom bought 5 acres in the forest at the end of a road in 1989. I moved out in the fall of 1989 on my 18th birthday and never spent a night back though I did visit.

This neighbor and her husband moved onto an adjacent property in maybe '94. "N" always thought that my mom was upset that she was invaded.  I don't disagree with this.  After 18 years and a divorce,  N moved away. 

I can almost describe their r/s as "Frenemies." One of the best stories was when they were renovating their house and had a dumpster.  N told my mom she could have space for free to "get rid of some of her junk." My mom said, "you never tell a Hoarder to get rid of their stuff!" She didn't talk to N for almost 6 months.  My mom said she took nitroglycerin pills (left over from her deceased husband) to keep from having a heart attack.  I heard the story from my mom over a decade ago.  I heard the story from N last year. Their versions didn't disagree, only their views of it. 

A year ago,  the longest call with N was almost 3 hours. The call included N telling me,  "I can't [effing] believe I'm hearing this from you!" Juxtaposed with listening to her literally cry about how much my mom hurt her despite everything N did for her.   

My mother was kicked off of her property last spring. She was in a skilled care facility for a while (refusing to admit herself, sign papers, which were just about who paid it: Feds (her Medicare), or state welfare).

She ended up being placed in a strip motel in the largest town on the county.  Strip motels where I live are magnates for prostitution. Not there.  I looked it up on Google maps.  It has a large green, and is by a creek.  All the services you could need are within 2 miles,  including the hospital and a Walmart.  She's sheltered, fed (meals on wheels), and most of the motel has long term residents,  not the hourly types.

Three nights ago,  I got a call from N. She had last talked to my mother in June.  My mother was begging N to come pick her up.  My mom needed to go to Walmart to get clothes and underwear.  The woman who ran the motel sometimes brough her omelettes, and sometimes Meals on Wheels would come by,  but my mom wanted a croq pot and food. This was in June.

This past Christmas,  a few weeks ago,  N left a message on my mom's cell phone.  "Call me,  I have presents for you.  I'll pick you up." No called back a few hours later and the phone gave a message,  "this phone no longer accepts outside calls." So N finally calls me.

N was calling Adult Protective Services. They rebuffed her. Not left after hours messages. N was told by them to stop doing that.  So N called me the other night. 

This was a 24 minute conversation. I told N that I would call APS the next day and then I'd call her back. 

I talked to my mom's social worker.  She said that my mom was safe and fed. That the woman who ran the hotel also ran the restaurant down the street and that in addition to MoW, provided my mom with food.  My mom also occasionally took the bus to the doctor's or to Walmart. That she'd smoke by the creek.  Residents kept an eye on her,  but didn't telegraph that they did,  "because your mom wouldn't like anybody in her business." He SW knows my mom.  I told her that I'm willing to help however I can.  The SW said that she knew that and that it was a shame my mom didn't want my help.  She also told me that she only took my call because she knew it was me.

I called N, keeping my promise.  1 hour 52 minute conversation. 

N's theory was that APS blocked her.  I offered that I wasn't sure that was likely.  That they were doing their jobs. Bureaucrats will follow the book.  I said,  "like their jobs,  my job is to make sure my mom is safe by being fed and sheltered.  She is."

"That's not your job Turkish! When's the last time you talked to your milk?"

"Last Christmas."

"You should be ashamed of yourself!" She said this a few times. 

N wanted me to tell APS that she wasn't a danger to my mother. 

"Tell them that she doesn't need protection from me. If anything,  I need protection from her!"

Then she went into more "how your mom was weird and hurt me" stories.

"One time,  your mom was out of money and I spent $200 buying animal food and healthy food for her.  I left it at her gate and left a message. She took it,  and to this day I never got a 'thank you!'."

I talked to N about my mom splitting people, in retrospect back to around 1980 when a family my mom "rescued" were suddenly moving out with much yelling. Best friendsn one will,  horrible people the next.  I saw this so many times over the decades... .

N was still trying to shame me so I got a little nasty and told her that my mom said bad things about her during N's divorce. N said that she never told my mom details. Lie. But I let it slide. "If yourn  mom said that I don't care." My point was to tell her how my mom could turn.  In told her I didn't like what my mom was saying, which was true. I neither like nor dislike N. My mom can be very kind and empathetic, but she can't understand the pain from a cheating spouse, my mom being anti men. 

I got more shaming,  but let it slide. She finally got b to radical acceptance.  "I got your mom a nice winter coat but I guess I'll keep it,  and return the presents. I made a promise to her and I'd just like to keep it." I told her that she had done a good thing and that on my view she was good.  "I'd just like to keep my promise!" Codependent? I didn't even mention that.  Didn't want another hour on the phone.

At one point,  she said,  "you said it before,  I was enabling your mom." Yes! We all were.  My mom played it well. $5k in '99 to save her from imminent foreclosure, $10k down payment from my brother from another mother and his dad for her deceased husband's 2 acres.  $10k from her oldest friend I only found out about last year,  and hundreds here, ab thousand there from me to keep her utilities on. I gave her my truck which she ruined (she gave her money to fix it, now it's stolen and lost). Or hundreds and the help of my BFAM to bypass her broken plumbing, of which later she accused me of cutting off her water (a criminal accusation, like keeping her prisoner when she lived with me, stealing her money, stealing her purse... .).

How much is enough?

I've written about rescuing her from scumbags before.  How dare N says that I should be ashamed. This stone's all out of blood. 

Idk, I think it is true that we replay scripts and dynamics from our FOO.  What do you think about that and your relationship/interactions with N?

Maybe you are holding onto the idea of a “mother” via this entanglement? Or... .What prevents you from setting better boundaries with this person?

Hi Turkish.  How are you?

I've been thinking about your post.  What do you think lies beneath your need to rescue N?  She comes to you when she has reached her limit to cope with her relationship with your mother.  She also repeatedly bashes you over the head with her fantasy of what a Mother Child relationship should be according to her rules.   You have repeatedly communicated to her in various ways that your hands are tied and have tried to educate her about how your mother operates.

It is a lot to take on.  It is a lot of responsibility to accept.  I understand why you got 'nasty' with her.  I would resent her calling me and dumping on me for hours at a time.  What is stopping you from simply saying "I hear your concern N.  My hands are tied and there is nothing I can do.  She has people helping her and watching out for her.  Please stop calling me"?

What lies beneath your need to rescue?  I have come to see that mine, for example, is a way for me to control things.  I can keep on top of things, keep an eye on things, and not be surprised because if I take care of everyone they will not act out.

Again, what lies beneath your need to rescue?

 

S0,

You might be onto something that I may be holding onto something... .maybe talking to someone about it? Something within may not be satisfied with my the opinions of my 30 years' friends, "your mother was crazy then; I'm surprised you kept on contact," and "you went above and beyond by taking her into your home, " and my T, "your home is not a hospital,  which is what your mom needs."

Harri, you are right.  I should either not answer,  or cut it short if N calls again. 

Maybe at the core I can't admit that I am hurt. I want answers (the courtroom scene from A Few Good Men springs into my mind). But maybe I can't handle the truth: my answers can't be found in other people.  Been with uBPDx, that failed spectacularly. I want to fix things,  but what I want to fix is other people (which is impossible) at the expense of myself. 

Hi Turkish!

You are right that your answers can't be found in other people, but they can often be found by looking at your relationships with people and the role you play in those relationships. 

If this next bit is out of line, feel free to kick me!  I have read your more recent posts and have noticed a change.  You seem more focused on your emotions and more willing to be open and vulnerable lately.  Not that you weren't before but there is a difference.  Do you see it too or am I way off base?  Again, feel free to kick me  :)

You once said that you need your pain.  In this post you said maybe you can't admit that you are hurt.  At first the two statements seem contradictory but (!) maybe not. 

Thoughts?

Naw. As a seasoned member,  I should be challenged.  Kick the wolf, ouch!

I'm a really coming across as a softie now? *sigh*

Yeah, captain kirk from star trek V, "I need my pain!" That was so validating! I was 17 that summer,  graduated from hug school,  trapped at home,  but little there,  my mom experiencing an existential crisis... .living on the streets in a car,  in a barn,  in a camper,  the previous few years were tolerable in comparison. Over 30 years later now I just cope with loss.

When my mom passes, I probably won't post it on the board.  So people can say they're sorry? For what?

I thought about going to see my mom.  I don't know how that would go.  Who knows what she's told people in her strip motel community? The kids asked my recently why we didn't see her,  why she no longer lived with us.  I told them that she chose to go back home.  That's all the truth they need to know.  They aren't responsible for my feelings. 

Hi Turkish.  Sorry I have been so inconsistent in posting.  I recently teamed up with Justin Timberlake and we are working hard on bringing sexy back.  It keeps me busier than I expected.    *)  (Sorry, heard that line in his song and it has been stuck in my head for a week now... .gotta get it out!  I am not a fan.)

And, no, you are not coming across as a softie now... .at least not more than you were before!   Quite the opposite actually.  Strength is being vulnerable and a willingness to share in spite of any fears or restrictive or false definitions of what it means to be strong.  You have always shown strength and still do Turkish.  It is just a bit different now.  It is a good thing.

"Heh.  This reminds me of me.  Being very literal, my first response is always to think what are you sorry for you didn't do it.  My second response is an urge to apologize to them for them feeling sorry.  What is your first reaction?  Second?

My first reaction would be I don't want (need) to hear it... .because I'm tough and just play what I'm dealt, don't you know. 

My second reaction would be that I'm being a jerk to people being kind.  My hyper-independence, emotionally or otherwise,  is no excuse for not mirroring the kindness and concern of others. 

This is reminiscent of a discussion we had on the board a few years ago,  "do you struggle with taking compliments" or something like that. 

Thus, I don't want to risk invalidating others by exposing myself.  Hmmm... .the "lone wolf" is a myth,  I am told.  It's ok to need people  :)

Understanding why I feel I might not need people is my struggle.  I'm pretty sure I know why,  but putting into practice change is hard. 

Do you think holding on to the pain you are familiar with and identify with serves as a defense for the unknown or untapped pain of the here and now?  In addition you have an adult view of the childhood you had, especially as a parent?  How your childhood affected your relationship with your ex?  How it affects the choices you make now?  New pain to learn to deal with and incorporate into new ways of being? 

Just throwing stuff out there to see if something sticks.

I agree that awareness of an issue only brings us so far.  I often sit with that thought and ask "okay, now what?" and the answer is change.  We are not destined to forever act out the roles we had as kids whether it be rescuer, peace keeper, scapegoat, golden child, etc. 

A little David Bowie:

Ch-ch-ch-changes
(turn and face the strange)
Ch-ch-ch-changes... .

Want to talk about why you think you don't need people?