Print Page - I'm still married because ________

Greetings "conflicted or just tolerating" folks!

As I look at my life, and evaluate my long term marriage. I am looking at my thinking that keeps me stuck for years in the undecided (or at least uncommitted to staying or leaving).
I am using the sentence in the subject line to sort out my thinking and I thought I'd share and also see what other's responses were.

Primarily I realize I am still married because I don't know how to actually end it.
I think I'm also afraid of making things worse. (jumping from the frying pan to the fire)
I'm afraid of my wife going all the way to parental alienation.
I'm still married because after all these years, each "last year" seems to have the better time to get divorced. When I was another year younger and another year that could have been better.
I used to think that infrequent bad sex was worse than no sex - so might as well stay married, but, now I've overcome that idea.

This project has helped me look at my thinking. I hope it helps someone else also!
Best wishes to all.

Great thread topic and I hope we get some replies here. As you know I'm in the same boat. I have spent a lot of time over the holidays trying to think this very question through and feel like I still have a long way to go. I often try to step out and look at myself and wonder why the heck I can't commit to moving on. This has been really almost a 4 year process for me. Together 17 years, married 11.

I too am confused and frightened by the process of how to actually end it. Yes I know, lawyers and courts, but what about the rest? The kids reactions, the house, the stuff (soo much stuff), finding a new place, when to find the time to actually do all this?
I feel like every time I get close... .like REALLY close to ending it, things DO get worse. Its like a continual extinction burst that I usually cave in to because sometimes I feel like its just not worth it. Things in my life could be worse... .
I have seen some PA from my wife, fortunately my kids dont really buy into it, but if I'm not there half (or more than half) the time... who knows... .?

I'm still married because it always seems like there is one more birthday, or holiday or school event that I don't want to spoil for the kids.
I'm still married because despite all she has done I too haven't been perfect. I think I still need to sort out exactly what I own and what I don't. My fear is going through this hell only to realize it was really me all along... .
I'm still married because I am afraid of the BPD hell that will be unleashed. She has told me I have yet no idea how mean and terrible she can be.
Very infrequent sex, but fairly good sex was better than no sex... . I have to keep reminding myself I went over 1.5 years with nothing while with my wife... .I'm sure I could handle it again on my own.

I'm sure like you my thinking will continue to evolve and change. I right now am trying to figure out how to fight back anger over all of it. Staying married is my choice yet I find myself angry at my wife that I'm still married to her... . I feel like she is the one making it harder than it needs to be so I give up. Thats my problem but I just cant help be angry over it.

Good luck.

Hey Sam & Oz, As you guys know, I'm on the other side, having been through a divorce from my BPDxW, and I'm not going to sugarcoat it by minimizing the challenge of parting ways from a pwBPD. We have two kids, so that was huge consideration for me. Anyway, it was rough sledding and I'm unsure if I could have done it without the support of my family and close friends. I guess what I'm saying is, I can relate to the quandary in which you find yourselves.

I like to think that, at some point, my kids will learn from my example that change is possible in life and one need not remain the victim of abuse or other harmful circumstances. They are teenagers, so I don't expect them to get it until they grow into adulthood.

To be continued, as I have more to say but have a meeting now.

LuckyJim

Hmmm why am I still married? Well, this is a decision which soon could be taken out of my hands since my uBPDw would like to get a divorce... .although actions speak louder than words and actions are a little contradictory.

In the process of unravelling the ball of string it's very apparent that there are things that I was told I did, which I didn't do, things I was told I was responsible for which I wasn't and things that I was told I should have done which I shouldn't. There was and still is a lot of FOG. There has always been an underlying vibration of weirdness and What the heck. However in the process of untangling it's very apparent that there's a lot of things I did wrong, I could have done and shouldn't have done. I had my own role in the dysfunction.

I look at my wife now from 30k feet, not in the fight and see that she is a good person. A person who struggles with her thoughts and feelings but wants to do the right thing. Yes, she messes up, the wheels come off and she behaves very badly, she says some peculiar things and fails to recognise her own involvement in the outcomes of events. This is painful for me and often the people around her. However her lack of self awareness and inability to self reflect means I can only judge her intention not her actions. Maybe I am being too empathatetic towards her or even slightly delusional but I genuinely believe that her intentions albeit narcissistic are survival based and in a vain attempt to do the right thing. She is struggling with the idea of divorce as she doesn't want to do the wrong thing, but feels inprisoned and controlled in the relationship much through her own perception of the facts and much through the outcomes of her own behaviour.

I made a promise on our wedding day, I know she would be unlikely to honour that promise but there is a clinical reason for that. I have the ability to honour those promises and therefore I feel I should, if not for the sakes of my wife but for the sake of the children and their future opportunities, children that were a direct result of the marriage and relationship. Currently the children are not affected by the relationship but they are impacted by my wife's behaviour, if being in the marriage allows me access and therefore influence over the kids then that is a good thing.

I love my wife, BPD and all. It's just something I have to learn to live with.

Hello again, Sam & Oz, A lot of people on this site fear change, with good reason when a pwBPD is involved, yet what I've discovered is that the unknown is also where greater happiness can be found. Isn't that what it's all about? Otherwise, in many cases it's a life of quiet desperation.

Excerpt

I used to think that infrequent bad sex was worse than no sex - so might as well stay married, but, now I've overcome that idea.

Excerpt

Very infrequent sex, but fairly good sex was better than no sex... .

I have to chuckle at your honesty: sure, sex is one reason why people stay in relationships, even BPD relationships fraught with drama and turmoil.

I guess I would phrase it differently by saying that I'd rather have OK sex with a kind person than good sex with a persecutor. For me, the price is too high in a BPD r/s.

Another consideration is that there is life after a BPD r/s, including sex. Let's just say that better sex is also a possibility.

Which bring me back to my original point, above, which is that it's likely to be rough sledding whether one stays or leaves a BPD r/s. I understand that you find yourselves stuck in an emotional ravine, unable to move forwards or backwards. The way out of the Cave of the BPD Minotaur, I suggest, involves following the "thread" of one's life, just as Theseus did in Greek myth when he retraced his steps by grasping the thread he unspooled on his way into the cave. It's your task, in my view, to find that thread.

LuckyJim

I'm still married because in my state I can't find a way to divorce her without loosing half or more of my time with my son and half or more of the retirement and assets that I have been working for while she has been under/unemployed by choice for the past 3+ years.

As of now I am the primary parent and I often feel like she acts more as a before and after school program instead of a committed parent. He is with me from when I get home from work until he goes to bed and the majority of the time on the weekends. Between all of her symptoms of depression/anxiety/BPD/TBI/migraines she spends the majority of her time in the bedroom in the dark or on the couch playing on her phone instead of interacting.

To be blunt we are functionally divorced as it is, she just lives in the same house as my son and I.

Because I choose to stay married.

Boundaries seem to be working and I've developed the knack to "poof" go do my own thing while my wife is blathering and then "poof" enjoy time with her when she is reasonable.

Functionally I'm a stay at home dad. My relationships with my kids continue to get better and I get lots of enjoyment from that.

My wife works full time.

I get lots of alone time or time in the house with kids, doing our thing.

It's not the life I "want" but I do enjoy it.

I realized my wife could go off the deep end and do something or put me in a position where I need to act. I hope that doesn't happen, but I am prepared.

FF

Lots of good stuff here. I was also thinking last night that I am still married because even if we divorced... .I can't imagine her ever leaving me alone or slowing down her drama. Divorced I would still have to put up with an immense amount of her crap and be paying her several thousand a month in child support for that privilege.

Sam I hear you loud and clear on whether or not its too late in the game. I often wonder why I would want to really start all over. I'm not really that old (turning 40 this spring) and in good health (for now). My T reminds me I have at least another great 25 years, another good 10 and then bonus territory. She then reminds me that I've only know my uBPDw for 17. She says take what you've had, now double it... .do you want to spend that much more time dealing with this?

Tired_Dad she would also take half of everything and has been under-employed and constantly tries to find excuses to convince me she shouldn't "have to work".

Enabler I too hear the threat of divorce often and she has the money for a retainer but as you say actions are what matters. I think she uses the divorce threats as part of her FOG.

LJ again thank you for continuing to remind us of life on the other side. The idea of finding the thread is an interesting one. Maybe I can sit down and write out a list of what it would really take and perhaps put them in somewhat of an order. I may find I've already done most of them except that being lost in the FOG makes it hard to see.

Cat and FF I really appreciate your views of staying in the relationship as well. I would like and have tried to enjoy the times when she is reasonable but the reality is she will never let that happen. As soon as "good things" are happening she inserts BS about the bad times and now we no longer are in a reasonable period. She claims to support my interests but I find she only does when there is some benefit to her. When it doesn't benefit her my interests are just deemed as selfish. I am happy both of you have found a way to keep things moving in the right direction.

Dano I find I feel bad as well now that I know some of the horror she went through growing up, but the fact that she won't do anything to help herself get through it shouldn't be placed on me (or you in your situation).

I'm still married because... .

Without my paycheck and medical insurance, uBPDw would have a very difficult life. She lived on the streets doing drugs ~10 years before we met, and I'm afraid that might be where she ends up again. Her mother, who supported her financially before she met me, passed away a couple years ago.
I'm worried what would happen to S5. I think it's very likely that uBPDw would move out of state (at least that's what she frequently threatens to do), and so whichever parent doesn't have primary custody would rarely see him. (I don't think she's physically or mentally capable of having primary custody, but of course when she threatens to leave, she usually threatens to take him with her.)
I do in fact love her.

I'm still at it ~15 years because:

Prior to having children: My strong opposition to divorce and belief in the power of love and a divine purpose to my marriage.
After having children: Protecting them from divorce fallout and giving them a happy life became my primary motivation, and remains so. My oldest, an early teen, is incredibly insightful and level-headed. I cannot take all credit for that, but I now realize my daily presence in their everyday lives gave contrast and balance, allowing me to contribute healthier and stronger materials in the formation of their core values and their childhood memories. And this despite my frequent role as a groin-strike dummy. If anything this will be the gold I salvage from the inevitable wreck of this marriage, gold that will retain its value for generations after I am gone.
Ongoing: I still love the good parts about my wife, but the painful process of revelation has caused me to see things I cannot unsee. That has made it impossible for me to love her in the mature, adult way I believed I did when I married her. I feel I am married to a broken child who is dangerous, which is never a positive or comfortable feeling except at rare moments when I can forget it. But this reality does give me pause about the idea of simply cutting all the ties and walking away a free man from the person I made my vows to. It feels like I am abandoning a child. Not to mention, I have heard some pretty scary divorce tales.

All that being said, I am slowly transforming. Knowing my children can survive a divorce is a powerful new realization for me. Furthermore, knowing there is a good chance for me to be a stronger, happier, and healthier father outside this marriage is becoming an elixir of truth that would be fatal to resist.

What a great spectrum of responses. Very thought provoking. I look at myself and I should include FOG to the reasons why I'm still married. Fear of the unknown. Fear of waking the beast of an angry wife. Fear of financial ruin through child and spousal support. Obligation - for most of my life I lived with the mantra that marriage is a contract, end of debate. But, I now see it as contract that might well be the death of me (spiritually and emotionally), so I'm working on that aspect of my beliefs. Obligation of course to my kids, who didn't ask for any of this, and since I invited them to Earth, I have an obligation to stick with them. And guilt. Guilt for the missteps I have taken. Guilt for not being perfect. Guilt for marrying her in spite of my misgivings at the outset.

Why am I still married?

Lots of reasons I guess, some maybe good reasons, some not so good reasons.

My values system, my faith, the person I claim to be is telling me to stay, to tough it out, to become more aware, and to learn all all can, ie’ tools, coping mechanisms… to support her, protect her, .all in order to stay in my marriage, for better or worse is what I vowed with her and to her in the Church the day we married.

It’s been rough, yes very rough at times, I am worn down, and now somewhat scared over. I have been through a lot in my life, as far as relationships, as this is my second marriage, which may make me even more determined to fight for its survival.

I have learned so much, even after I thought I was an “old dog”, I am still learning.

We were both married before, many decades of experience between us, we both lived an entire life with another mate, before we came to be together, so you’d think we could get it right, this BPD… it has been quite a few years now of floundering, fighting, to the point of giving up, and I have since come across this, this disorder, this explanation, which seems to “fit”, so BPD is to blame, as to why… why my supposed uBPD/w is the way she is, I strive to learn more and more, about her past, always looking for the moment in her history, or moments, her early life experiences that may have “caused” this to be our life together now, many other variables in play, but I have remained, yes we have almost pulled the “D” trigger several times, in fact countless times now to be truthful, but here we are, it has been a little better since before Christmas, but as I look back on this last year, I still see the marks and scars of the many fights, disagreements, and the “treatments”, I have done much better I think, to understand all of this, to better be able to properly handle, to react, In the moment, since I have come upon this uBPD explanation, I have listened, and strived to understood what is, and was happening, and I have gotten much better at conflict avoidance, and support, even empathy, and “truth” seeking.

But I am still in a thick “FOG”, but I accept this as “the way it is”, this is my billet in life now, as I said, for better or for worse, in sickness and in heath… so for now I stay, and I preserver.

This is my responsibility you see, I made a promises, and so far, albeit extremely difficult at times, I am today still able to keep that promises to stay here, with her, and tell her I love her, even when she is fighting me.

Good thread, Red5

Red5 - thanks for your comments. What you say brought up another thing I learned a while back. Learning about BPD probably made / makes me stay longer that I would have otherwise. Three years ago, when I looked up "Borderline Personality" out of curiosity, I felt like I had suddenly been given the key to the map, or a decoder ring. Now I understood what, and why, and when of the pain I was in with my marriage. That led me to improving, learning, getting better, and (unfortunately) being able to endure even more. So here I am.

Quote from: SamwizeGamgee on January 09, 2018, 02:42:42 PM

I felt like I had suddenly been given the key to the map, or a decoder ring. Now I understood what, and why, and when of the pain I was in with my marriage. That led me to improving, learning, getting better, and (unfortunately) being able to endure even more.

Very nicely put. You know I'm sci-fi films where they find the magic key that opens the magical lock, all the levers start to move, cogs turn perfectly and the doors open. Sledge hammers, dynamite and prayers... .nothing previously worked. BUT NOW IT MAKES SENSE, it can be rationalised even if it is in itself irrational by its very nature.

I'm a loyal guy and, like many here, took my marriage vows seriously. Plus, I was adamantly opposed to putting my children through a divorce. Yet I came to question whether my loyalty was misplaced by staying in an abusive marriage with someone who, due to her terrible disorder, was fundamentally unable to treat me with the kindness and respect that I gave her. I also came to doubt that it was a positive thing for my kids to be subjected on a regular basis to high conflict scenarios between their parents. I became a shadow of my former self, which I regarded as a poor role model for my children.

The straw that broke the camel's back occurred when two kind friends and a family member became so concerned that they conducted an intervention on me, at which point I knew that it was time for me to hit the eject button and bail out, into unknown territory. So here I am, as Samwize put it!

LuckyJim

LuckyJim

Quote from: Lucky Jim on January 09, 2018, 03:28:05 PM

The straw that broke the camel's back occurred when ... .
LuckyJim

LuckyJim

Jim,

I recall another thread a while back having to do with "deal breakers", what would it take to make me go, or what would it take make me stay, don't recall now the exact wording now in the title, .as in what I called the "go-nogo" checklists... .with me, it is a constant reevaluation process, daily, weekly, .sometime hourly even, .right now things are good, not great, but good, maybe tolerable, hence the name of this board, "conflicted/tolerating"... .as Sam says above, "I felt like I had suddenly been given the key to the map, or a decoder ring"... .I was at my wits end, I was beaten, I was losing myself, I was drowning in all the negative energy, and I said to myself, it would be better to be without, than stay here with her (abusive), .and I was also about to reach for my own ejection handle, but one night I came across the BPD decoder ring, and map, .not that it "fixed" anything by any means, but now I began to understand perhaps "why"... .so I took another breath, and I was almost out of breath, and I dove back into the "pool", .that was a little over a year ago now, .and even during this last year, it has been pretty bad, but now I have a clue as to why, it is not so obtuse, not so damaging to me, .albeit still painful, but in a different way, .we all have our thresholds, what is acceptable, and then what is above the pale, and is completely unacceptable or tolerable within the relationship, mine #1 is sexual betrayal, that's my red line, .a few other "checks" on the list would make me think real hard about leaving however, .we are all on a "spectrum" I think, its a journey, and each day the weather may change either a little just enough to make us a little uncomfortable, or else the weather becomes so sharp, so painful, so violent to the point that we may choose to leave the relationship post haste. I indeed reached that point in my previous marriage at the twenty two year mark, and it ended, .and I then moved on, to another relationship, and then another marriage, and as you quote Sam, "here I am"... .Red5

@SamwizeGamgee - FOG is definitely part of my reluctance. Financially I have been more or less ruined already, living paycheck to paycheck, unable to even discuss finances, so that is fairly moot for me.

I would say deep down my fear of what she might do to retaliate is a big factor, and me being unsure how I might handle that (could I handle it?). I have seen profound cases of parental alienation. I cannot even fathom how I would respond if I were falsely accused of some awful abuse. Thinking of my children's agony, and my wife twisting their minds, scares me.

Thing is, if my wife approached me tonight asking for an amicable divorce, I'd trip over myself to oblige her. That's a fairly instructive insight.

@ Samwize: Great topic! It's interesting to me, as someone on the other side, to hear everyone's responses, including: fear of reprisals, staying for the sake of children, potential dearth of sex, concern for financial ruin, family and social pressures, as well as fear of change and the challenge of overcoming the inertia of staying married.

@ Red5: I like your "No-Go" checklist, which speaks to me of good boundaries. Awareness of BPD, as you and Sam note, changes the game. Before that, I was just swinging in the dark. After finding out that there is such a thing as BPD, I took it one step further because I believed, mistakenly, that I could "solve" the BPD puzzle through learning about the disorder and applying the tools. Yet BPD proved too much for me. It defied my attempts to find an effective strategy, which I now realize is why so many of us are on this site scratching our heads trying to make sense of an extremely complex and destructive disorder.

Thanks to all for your thoughtful responses,

LuckyJim

Everyone's posts have been instructive and revealing I think.
@ LJ - you have given a voice of sanity and hope to me and others, I'm sure. Thanks.
As I see the things I have written, I hear my reasons often revolving around fear. Fear of unknown, change, making things worse.
In addition to asking myself to answer "I'm only married because____." I also have gone through the mental forecasting of "If I stay married, in [five, ten, twenty] years my life will be ______."
That for me is finally pushing me out of my rut of stuck. I just posted this morning on the Divorcing boards about it.

I am musing myself since since I know from my history I am dogmatically duty bound, and it wasn't until 18 years of marriage that I let myself look up the definition of divorce. It was forbidden before then.

@ Misterblister "Thing is, if my wife approached me tonight asking for an amicable divorce, I'd trip over myself to oblige her. That's a fairly instructive insight." I laughed and cried when I read that. This would be the lottery winning of a lifetime. And, yes, that is very, very telling that I think that.

Quote from: misterblister on January 09, 2018, 06:42:59 PM

I would say deep down my fear of what she might do to retaliate is a big factor, and me being unsure how I might handle that (could I handle it?). I have seen profound cases of parental alienation. I cannot even fathom how I would respond if I were falsely accused of some awful abuse. Thinking of my children's agony, and my wife twisting their minds, scares me.

Thing is, if my wife approached me tonight asking for an amicable divorce, I'd trip over myself to oblige her. That's a fairly instructive insight.

I will pile on to this and add it to my list as well.

I stay married to my wife, because I am afraid of her.

Remarkable statement.

Quote from: Enabler on January 11, 2018, 06:59:10 AM

Sorry to hear that.
What perceived consequences of divorce do you fear?

I certainly fear to touch my 85% burns victim W at the moment owing to the screams of pain she will give off of me hurting her.

In general, I am not afraid of her physically (although I did sleep with the door to my room locked at one time). The fear is more about her ability to demand all the energy in the interaction. Parental alienation is a big one and at this stage I dont 'think' she would accuse of molesting my children but at the same time I am not 100% sure (I 'think' there are sufficient character witnesses with community service I do that would suggest it is preposterous). But my first attempt at divorce there are statements like "daddy is abandoning us, we are on our own now". "You have chosen to no longer be a part of this family and I will prevent you from seeing your children ever again".

And then societal character assassination. And the fact when you have children together, it is for life.

Plus, she has demonstrated many times that she knows how to hurt me emotionally. And is not afraid to do so. When upset, no amount of pain she inflicts is too much. And the first 5 years of the marriage in particular were heavily emotionally abusive. Although things are better over the years (in part from developing my own skills), the underlying knowledge of what pain is possible is still there. Ya, I have been traumatized by it and it still affects my interactions.

And a large part of this fear, is how that affects my kids. Vs staying in the relationship and 'keeping peace' to provide them some stability. I am not trying to be a martyr, but fear it comes off that way at times. And have questioned if it is just my own ego wanting to be 'right', and maybe they are just fine being raised by mom. But I know there are ongoing incidents where me being there greatly diffuses things to a more moderate impact on them.

I have wondered a few times if it would be worth it to just give her the kids and all the money I have (and will ever make) via the court process, just to obtain some peace for myself. It is not of course, and I have to fight for what I believe will give my kids a healthy development. Constant conflict does not serve my kids well though. And the conflict of a bitter, contentious coparenting relationship would be greater than the current status quo.

My T (who has seen us both and also has experience with NPD/BPD personalities), suggested it is simply me prioritizing my childrens well being over my own. At this point in time at least. And felt it was a reasonable choice.

Hey yeeter, Yup, yup and yup to all the fears you list, many of which I have already experienced in real time over the course of a divorce from my BPDxW. Fear, of course, is the "F" in F-O-G, which I call the three-pronged pitchfork by which those w/BPD manipulate us Nons. Those suffering from BPD, I submit, are experts at manipulation and will turn up the heat as needed if they don't get the response -- usually some form of submission -- that they seek. I was once highly susceptible to manipulation by my BPDxW, so I know where you're coming from. No more. I reached a point where I was already so beaten down that I had nothing to lose by standing my ground, which is when things started to turn around for me and I gradually returned to the land of the living. You can do it, too!

LJ

Quote from: yeeter on January 11, 2018, 06:30:39 AM

I stay married to my wife, because I am afraid of her.

I made this exact statement to my T a few months ago. T said from what she's learned so far she believes my fears to be completely valid and I should prepare myself best I can, including enlisting the help of a lawyer.

I moved to my parents place for a few weeks and I heard the same garbage, mostly to D11 who is emotionally pretty young. Daddy isn't here to help anymore. Don't worry, mommy is ALWAYS here for you. Mommy and you are a team. Mommy won't let anything happen to you. Bless D11's heart the times that I've been in the room when uBPDw has said these things D11 pipes up and says "daddy too" daddy is always here for me too.

I no longer really fear the physical abuse, she was arrested for DV in august (charges dropped) but if she ever got "really bad" on me I would call the cops again and she would be in a lot of trouble.

Like you its the emotional and verbal abuse that really gets to me. Sometimes I think she can't see how terrible the end result of her threats would be for her and the kids. She has threatened to get me fired even though I provide the health insurance and D11 has medical troubles. I am the breadwinner, we live in an expensive community... . If I don't work, there's nothing. I believe she wants to get me fired to force me to find another job that "provides more". This is read as "i don't want to work"... .

I am back at the house doing what I can to "keep the peace" for the kids and I am certainly sacrificing myself to keep my kids insulated from some of the madness.

uBPDw is screaming at me to "get out" and threatening divorce again. I've heard it all before... .here we go for another trip around the carousel.

BPDFamily.com

Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Conflicted About Continuing, Divorcing/Custody, Co-parenting => Topic started by: SamwizeGamgee on January 08, 2018, 08:24:59 AM